you know, one of my friends was like, yo you you you could really do this, you know? And that was all it took. There's an energy that I'm feeling that I was like, oh, I can roll with

this. Especially like, I imagine just the time before you go up and like the clock ticking and you're like, okay, I'm going to three people ahead of me

to people when I heard from that from the sound guy drop next.

Yeah,

I think about that moment to this day because it was a moment that changed my life.

Alright, Friends and listeners, today's episode is with chappelle lacey. He is one of the hottest names in comedy. I don't want to say that, but because that's such an L. A thing to say. But within Los Angeles, he is one of the hottest new names in comedy. But as we get into his story, it's not such a new thing to him. He's been at it for nearly a decade. He is so reflective on himself and his his approach to comedy is approach to life, that it is a phenomenal story, whether you're a fan of of comedy or not, and it's the type of creator that I love chatting with, He has opened for comedy titans like joe Rogan,

he now is headlining his own his own tour, as well as some of the biggest rooms in Los Angeles and it's just a joy to chat with someone that is so deeply reflective and someone that has had such a remarkable story without further delay. Let's get into it with chappelle lacey? this is below the line, but how long, how long ago did you move to L. A. I

moved to L. A. I just hit four years

in March,

March 3. 4 years in L.

A. And where were you? Right before?

Okay.

Yeah, that's where you grew up. So what was your were just chatting about just the perception of L. A. And the reality? What was your perception? What was actually? I would love to know what the internal dialogue is for a comedian. That's because you've been doing it for almost a decade, nine years. So what was going through your head? How long did it take for you before you like? Alright, I'm moving to L. A. And I want to hear like absolute first time you, that thought crossed your mind when you did it.

Well, um, actually, we were just talking about this yesterday, I was talking about what brian, because brian uh was one of, you know, among, you know, a few comedians that I had met that would travel to Arizona uh, to do shows bryan callen. And oddly enough, the venue, we're the comedy clubs called stand up Live downtown phoenix. And I worked at the hotel that they would put the comedians up at, which was right next door. No,

no, I actually didn't know that. Yeah, I actually didn't know that when I got that job and uh you know, I met brian and he was really cool. Obviously, you know, great personality. And then he asked me to you know, come to like a guest spot on his show. He goes, hey man I'll put you I'll give you like five minutes

or how how did he

Yeah, he knew that was because I had met him before he gave me that opportunity. I met him a time before he came. That's when I met him and Brendan together and they were doing a live fighter and the kid podcast uh for you know fans at the at the at that venue. And so you know, he remembered me, we chopped it up and then he was like yeah come on, come on by and then I go up and do a set and he watched he came out and actually watched and he was like man like you know what are you doing here? You know, he goes you you gotta get to L. A. And uh I guess I never really thought of it like that. He was like he was like you you don't need to be here anymore. You

like you hadn't thought like maybe I should be going, maybe I should go to L.

A. No because you know, I was kind of just taking my time because so the way my stand up story is I started in 2010 and I quit in 2013 around the time my brother had passed away. So shortly after my brother passed away, I just I had no desire to make people laugh, you know, because I wasn't happy. You know, like people think they have this, you know, perception that all comedians are depressed. No, not necessarily there are I mean there's depressed, anything and any, any type of genre of things that people do and I know it's for me, if I'm depressed, I'm not going to do the thing that I want to do because I want to deliver my best self and at that time I couldn't and I just quit and I didn't I didn't give myself like a timeline of when I would get back into it. I didn't think I would get back in the comedy at all. You know, I guess I was just like I was I was honestly set on it being done. How

Old were you when you started in

two 1010, how old was I was 23,

Okay. Yeah. I think this especially for a podcast devoted to creators and the psychology of creation. Just managing the internal dialogue, the inner journey of creation. I would love to hear the whole story of like, what was 22 year old chapel thinking about when it came to? How many, what was that? What was that initial interest? Did it start at nine? Like I want to hear the whole thing and then I would love to hear.

So the comedy thing for me was never a thing that I ever wanted to do or knew that people could do. I didn't think anybody could just do it. Um, you know, I was familiar with comedy specials. Um, so just Eddie Murphy Raw, you know, Dave chappelle is killing them softly. But I, I didn't think those were things that just anybody could do. I thought like you had to be of some famous world, you know, cause obviously I knew Eddie Murphy's movies, the movies that Dave chappelle was doing. And you know, I knew that I knew that stuff, but I was like, oh, that's what they do because they're entertainers just in

general, they're already in the club so

they can do that. Yes, that's what I, that's what I assumed. I didn't realize that they had a starting point to comedy and you know, I used to drink and uh, my, my buddies, this was when I was living in Louisville Kentucky and my buddies, uh, I was 2022 when, when this initial thing had happened, I was asked to do this with my buddies used to play these acoustic sets at bars. You know, like, you know, like bars have like acoustic people play,

you know, some songs and you know, one night they had called me up and uh, just to have fun with me, you know, and I guess I was just an entertaining dude to people not even necessarily realizing that and I told a story and I just told a story about how I wrote a love song for a girl that didn't like the song, right? I just told that story, it was fun, it was fun, it was just it was just

tell the truth and they just put you up on stage and said like

a little bit and then I even played the song, you know, like yeah, you know, because it was just funny and after that, you know, a couple my friends were like, man, you should really, you should get in the stand up comedy.

Were you nervous even just to get up there for that?

Uh No, because I didn't think of it as I was just telling a story, like I didn't think of it as anything that was of people were laughing because I'm laughing at it too, because it is funny thing about pouring your heart out and writing a love song to a girl that you have a crush on, and then she's like,

oh yeah,

you know, I think you gotta tune here,

you know? You

know? So um for it to not be received well, but also for me to handle that heartbreak as a, you know, a high school kid, you know, it it was funny to talk about in my twenties, you know? And uh I didn't think anything of it and I was laughing everyone else was laughing just cause it was just a funny story and um once, yeah, once I got off stage, like I said a couple of friends, like, man, you should really think about stand up comedy and I used to be such a crazy drunk, that would be the type of drunk that would go, uh say I won't and they were like, you won't do it and

I was like, what?

So, and so literally I studied comedy for like a month straight,

just,

I just started watching anything and everything. I could have stand up comedy, you know, Youtube was rolling around that time. Um and so there was all these sets on Youtube then Comedy Central, I would go to Comedy Central and I would just watch stand up comedy and I would just drill it from, from people that were big names to upcoming to people that just put their open mic set up on Youtube? Do

you remember any of the observations you,

one of the biggest things that I noticed, I was like, okay, you can have your own style. Like it's I realized, oh, it's your own voice. It's not anything of, it's, it's your own voice, it's, it's your perspective. That's, that's one thing I took away from it immediately was that everything was from your perspective and so yeah, there you go, where do you start? You know what,

what am I gonna say that is um funny, what am I gonna put out there that I could just deliver. So I just talked about things of my life, you know, because I was like, that's what I know better than anything else. Like I don't have any hot topics on, you know, I don't know any any hot takes on

politics,

politics or you know, pop culture or anything of that nature, I don't, not gonna and I tried, early on, I did try to talk about that stuff and I immediately stopped doing it because I was like, there's no authentic connection to this and that's what I wanted to put out there on stage was authentic uh connection to what I was talking about and when you have the authentic connection, I think you can deliver your best and so um um you say, yeah, I just studied it like that and then I would just write about things, anything and everything in my life, that was just Goofy, you know, at least what I thought was Goofy. And then uh I finally signed a month later, I signed up for an open mic at a comedy venue back in Louisville Kentucky called comedy caravan and they were like, you get uh I think the spot was like a five minute or three or five minute spot and

yeah,

I was so nervous, I was, I was terrified and but someone came up to me beforehand, I think it was the sound guy of the venue and he wasn't a comedian, he was just the sound guy that ran you know, and like, did control the lighting and all that stuff, he comes up to me. He goes, this is your first time, huh? I was like, yeah, how did you know? He goes, I just I've been around and I was like, yeah,

it's my first time. And he goes, uh because you're not going to do good. He goes, but that's okay. He goes,

that's okay.

He goes, uh dave chappelle, dane cook Bill burr. Just started listening off all these all these comics. He goes, they've all bombed, but look where they're at, They all bomb. He goes, sculptor. And so I took that and I was like, yeah, yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, you gotta you kinda gotta go through this process of yeah, it's just a grunt work.

You know? It's not easy. You don't you don't know what you're doing, you I mean, you're starting out, but but the way you figure it out by going up there. Yeah, there's there's no other way around it is what I learned immediately. There's no other way around being to be funny on stage. You can't go around that by. There's no loophole to that. You have to go and face this audience. I remember that show really well, I can't remember the jokes remember the show because it was kind of like a blackout to me. Um but I remember I told one friend was like, hey man,

I've been going up to do comedy, you know, just come, you know, keep it between us man, he told everybody

so

my whole cheer team uh, came to

the show. So you've been doing cheers, you kind of knew the performance aspect. You probably had some wiring for

performance Yeah, for the stage, you know, I didn't have a fear of being in front of people, which was already a plus a plus for me is that I didn't have a fear of being in front of people, uh or fear like messing up because I mean I've dropped, you know, I've dropped this, you know, stunt in front of people. I've eaten it in front of people like on a, on a tumbling, you know, that's like, I mean that and I was, and I put that together, I was like,

oh, that's like the bomb. I was like, but what happened after you just went back to the drawing board and worked on, worked on to find the consistency to where you could always hit those skills?

I didn't know you cheered before. Yeah, that's it.

Yeah. Did I mention that? No,

no,

I'm sorry,

I'm sorry, No one, No 1 When We Chatted.

Like I know

for sure, for sure. Yeah, and I want to get into that too, by the way because it's just the, the work ethic that you have and how, I mean you're on, how many podcasts per week do you do you you host how many?

Well I just narrowed it down so I just actually just quit the fighter and the kid podcast and now I just do my podcast and Cats after dark and uh, I left on good terms, Nothing crazy at all. What Fighter and the kid, I just felt um, I felt like I wanted to fly a different way, you know, and the Fighter and the Kid podcast is a podcast that I did not create. Um, but I was, you know, uh able to be a part of and for the period of time that I was a part of at a great time. But there's just this feeling when you feel like you want

to like, you're like, I gotta,

I gotta go do this thing over here. I gotta do, I gotta, it's like this, this double down on yourself and any time I've ever felt felt that feeling, I've acted upon it

double down,

double down double Yeah, just double down myself and any time I've done it, I've always seen great results from it. So it's like I made that right choice. And then like when I feel it, you gotta, you gotta take that jump. But anyways back

to 23

23 didn't like did the first show and yeah, people laughed and, you know, one of my friends was like, yo you, you you could really do this, you know, and that was all it took was just, but but already I felt it, but you know, for a friend to go, you can really do this. You know, obviously didn't have any specifics about the jokes because I mean, it's it's early on, you know, they're not like well polished jokes because it was literally the first time ever getting on stage,

but just to know and what I what I and you know, to hear my friends say that, but also to feel what I felt on stage and and like kind of just I was, yeah, I was blacked out, but there's an energy that I'm feeling that I was like, oh, I can roll with this. Were

you black out drunk or were you just like,

you know, blacked out like kind

of like headlights, headlights? Yeah. Yeah, I that's um especially like, I imagine just the time before you go up and like the clock ticking and you're like, okay, I'm going to three people ahead of me to

people when you hear, when you hear what I heard from that from the sound guy drop next.

Yeah,

I think about that moment to this day because it was a moment that changed my life.

You

know, it was a moment you're up next and to roll out there and you know, do as well as I could. Yeah, I was I was I was happy with that.

Yeah, it's like the Tyson quota of everybody's got a plan until you get punched in the mouth and it's like you can have the wiring for performance feel like this is in my nature to do this in some regard. And yet like, like you're saying of doubling down in yourself as it sounds like you, you still have to put yourself in these really uncomfortable

always. I mean that, that I don't think that ever stops. Yeah.

Tell me why

you said that. Um, just as, as I've grown through, you know, all the things that I've been through in life. Like when I, when I, like I told you about my brother passing away, Yeah, It puts you in a position to where you're walking through life. I found this new love for stand up comedy and I'm starting to feel this groove of my individual self and I feel like I have something to hold as my own. That's what I, that's what I feel with stand up. This is, this is something I'm able to hold as my own because I kind of was just going through the motions of just being a cheerleader, a cheerleader in college and not really caring about college in any way.

I was just excited to cheer in college, you know, And, but I, I totally felt lost.

What did you think you were gonna do? Like professionally? Like,

I honestly, I had no idea. Had no idea. I had no, gosh man, that's a good question because I don't think I ever really thought

about that Really like 23 year old you a week before, a month before

doing

stand up. Like you think like, okay, maybe I'll go work the job. But I think I was just,

I think I was just so comfortable with being a cheerleader that I didn't think about anything else. You know, I

mean, you could You were you in college then

at 23? Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. And uh man, that's a wonderful question. Yeah. I never, I never really truly thought about that, but I don't think I really had a desire in life to just do anything. I think it was just existing and not that that's what I wanted to do. I think that's just what I was doing. And I think a lot of it is because my head was so wrapped up in my childhood, in the way I grew up, you know, I, I no,

not at all, not at all to start off with. So I lived with my biological mom and my step and I had a stepfather and my step father was very abusive and so, you know, and then eventually I was adopted into a family um in my teens. Okay. And going through going through that as a kid, you just, you just feel like you're kind of bouncing. I felt like I was bouncing. I didn't feel like uh and the bouncing was out of my control.

Yeah, like you're never in the driver's seat,

never in the driver's seat, ever. Never felt like I was in the driver's seat for anything. I did cheerleading. I was really good at that. I did skateboarding, I was really good at that. Um you know, playing guitar, I did these things that were really cool, but I don't think there was a passion. I don't think I ever had a passion and I think a lot of it is due. So, I was always thinking about this fact of my childhood of man, that's how I was treated and then the transition into moving into a family that I wasn't born into, but my siblings are still in that house, you know,

so it's like, all this stuff is playing in my head and you, I feel I felt like a strong guilt obviously, because I was like, man, my siblings

are still

there. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was like, man, I'm living in this nice home

with these great people,

wonderful, wonderful, wonderful people, people that I'm still connected with today. You know, they still, you know, call me their son, my sister's still call me their their brother. Um but it was, it was tough to swallow that, you know, it was hard to accept a lot of times. I remember, I even ran away from them. I remember one day, I just packed all my things and I ran away because I was just,

I just, I just felt so out of it and I was just like, man, I was like, I felt guilty having uh this nice home, you know, how

many siblings were back

at Uh four

of them for myself. Yeah,

yeah, so quite a few, you know, and these are, these are, you know, like I've known them since my earliest earliest memory, so and to, to be pushed out of, because my stepfather eventually kicked me out, so to to sit there and and be pushed out of a home even though, you know, it's a bad home, you know, that not that I fully knew the situation was bad. I know bad things are happening, right? But I'm like, man, I want to go back there because

the Stockholm

syndrome,

survivors guilt,

like yeah, big time, big time, man, that was, that was tough to deal with. And so yeah, I guess I guess I kind of just walked through life without any, I couldn't really focus on anything for me for, you know, chappelle lacey, I never wanted to go to college. I went because I, you know, my my adopted folks were so great and they helped me uh you know, find my way to be able to get into college. I never wanted to go, but I found I found out a lot of great things there. Um

you know, I just finished watching cheer with my wife.

Oh yeah, so, so that's that's why

I cheered At what,

which one trinity valley, No way, that

is that one in Athens? Yeah. No, I've been to. So I went, I grew up in Dallas, I've been to Athens 100 times. We had a lake house on Cedar Creek for a few years. So yeah,

Tyler texas Corsicana. They're all right

there. So you were like one of the best

in the country. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was really good at it, you know? And but being a really good cheerleader and everybody giving me this praise all the time for being a good cheerleader. I never really, I could never take that in. And I think it was just, I didn't trust, uh, I don't know if I necessarily trusted people. I don't know exactly what it was. That's something I haven't really defined yet. Um And I eventually I'll get there through the constant journaling I do. But I just I couldn't embrace anything about myself and the good things about me because I was so wrapped up in what my childhood was.

I can't imagine what they would be like to the tell me if this is like in the area code of how

hard

it might have been two to be. Like these people suck and yet I'm, they're kicking me out. I'm not even, I'm not good enough for these people and I know that they are this this step dad, I know that he sucks.

So

how especially as a kid questioning like where will I

ever be? You know what it is? I just, I think it just hit me when I think about the, I couldn't embrace people's praises about me because I never got it from home, that's what it was. So I'm like, man, I'm like, what about the people that actually, so I had this chip on my shoulder,

what about the

people that actually created me? You know what, what, what, what do they have to say? And that's why I can never take in people telling me I was really talented and good at things and, you know, I just, it was even to this day when I really think about it, that's one of uh that's still a bit of a struggle, you

know that um so tell me more about the chip on the shoulder and within the startup realm, there's one of my favorite startup books, the titles called What Got You Here, Won't get you there. And the synopsis is basically like, uh I've got it right over there, so I'll go

check, I haven't I? Yeah,

it's, it's phenomenal. I haven't um thought of the offer the author in five or six years, but the, it's one of the number one books that I recommend to two founders because when I read it 78 years ago, it was this like, ton of bricks of like, you, you naturally think like what got me here must be working.

So I gotta,

that's my strength, I gotta keep doing that. And the whole, the whole concept of the synopsis of the book is basically like in business and business leadership, what got you to this point is usually through the exact opposite skill set that then gets you to the next

point of

chip on your shoulder, heads down blinders, I'm gonna outwork everybody. It's about my individual contribution. I'm going to basically out compete all these things that then when you're in a leadership position, it's like, no, you can't out compete your team, it's about leading them shepherding that, it's not about chip on the shoulder, it's about uncovering nuggets of gold for them to discover for them to achieve, not for you to siphon off their effort to be like, look what I just did and it's but that could be so it's one so counterintuitive and such a mind fuck to be like to even read that and read a whole book of it, case by case. Like all of these bullet points of why it is the case, but then still feel like this is like I've got it at the peak of where I am, I've got to invest in this ship that I've never invested

in.

It just sounds, it sounds like you're gonna take steps backwards, but God, II lead to burnout fire sale of my uh of the company I was running at the time, 18 months of depression because I did not heed the advice of that book, I was like, yeah, that's good. I'm doing it over here in these tiny little areas, but didn't taking in wholesale and and ended up just making all of these mistakes that I was reading this book, like a year prior.

But

it's a great book. But yeah, tell me about the chip on the shoulder or how it helped you? Or

the Chip on the shoulder. Uh, I'll say it helped me in the sense that, you know, because of the chip on the shoulder and my actions in the, you know, forced me to be in situations that I necessarily didn't want to be in, um, anger management being one of them. I know they did good.

Yeah.

1-800. I've had three, yeah. Three different anger management teachers. I started anger management at 15. And then my last anger management teacher, I think I was 22. Yeah. 22 was my last last time I had How

Does one come to the realization that they

it wasn't it

wasn't me that realized.

I don't think it was the other people. Yeah, of course, you know, I think so. The first time, what did I do? I think I just had so many outbursts in school, um that were like, major major outbursts and I guess I haven't defined this either because I just it just made me think of something that's a beautiful um the beauty of dialogue is you start to, you know, figure certain things out and things pop up in your head. But I tried, I tried to fight my teachers when I was about to get in a fight with this kid and he just kept making fun of me. And, and naturally a lot of people did because I was a black kid that loves punk and hardcore music and you know, a skateboard and all this stuff and it wasn't a common thing,

you know? And so people would make fun of me about it and I hated that. And so I was about to fight this kid for saying something and some teachers tried to grab me and I just started swinging at them, you know, with all this like, horse I missed. But

yeah,

yeah, yeah, I know exactly. I was a smaller around that time. But yeah, thank God, I did miss. And I think I had another angry outburst in the, in the classroom where I kicked over a desk, I was about to charge a kid and then, I don't know, I don't know what's crazy about this situation is, I felt like security was just waiting by the door because they came so fast and I was like, I was like, they had to be outside the door. And then um the principal at the time, he sat me down and he was like,

I'm not going to suspend you. He goes, he goes, you enjoy that. He goes, you're like, he's like, what do you say? He goes, it's like a vacation for you. And I was like, well, naturally, but he uh, he's gonna put you in anger management, you'll see what that does.

And the first time I went, this was 15 years old. Uh, it was it was tough because it was through the school, it was at the school and I don't know how much they could really ask and not to discredit them, but I think they just couldn't dig into my life the way and needed to be dug into. So they kind of just kept its surface level when I stopped going,

When did you even know that there was a lot to dig into? Like, what

this was,

wasn't 15. Did you know? Like,

I didn't realize that until later to like the other anger management

teachers I had. So what a so are you saying at 15, you were kind of like, yeah, this is life. And you didn't think

there was much too? I was like, anger manageable for what? I was like,

this is what this is what I do. Yeah,

that's how I roll. Yeah. What are you talking about? I was like, why doesn't everybody do this?

Yeah,

But but but here's the thing that's all I knew, all I knew was to

react with violence for

anything because that's how it was at home. Everything was, you know, if anything was bad, it was through, it was through violence. You know that this it was solved through violence. So that's all I knew. So I was just acting off of my environment, you know? So if someone says something mean to me about

this is how you handle, no

words just fight. That's that's that's how I thought. I just thought this through violence. And so the 2nd and 3rd time I went was in college to anger management when I was at T. V. C. C. When I was at trinity valley. And um I remember the first one was the second one. Miss barry shout out to miss barry. She uh I mean I walked up in her class and I was like, you know, I just had this had this like just uh you know like I already did this.

Yeah, exactly,

exactly. I was already did this and she was like, have a seat. You know? And I was like, okay,

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and she was like oh tell me about yourself and No one had ever asked me that before. It hit me, I was like no one that no one had ever asked me, tell me about yourself, What are the things you like? I was like, what? It caught me off guard. It really caught me off guard. I've never been asked that up until that point. Yeah. I've just never been asked like, what, what do I like? What am I, what am I into? You know,

I never talked about the things I actually liked. I just like the things that I liked and that was it. There wasn't, I wasn't, I had never expressed it to anyone, you know, I couldn't express it at home because I was made fun of for it. You know, the things I liked. But meanwhile the first thing she did was, hey, let's just have a conversation. Power, dialogue, yeah. Power of dialogue.

Like tell me about yourself. I was like, wow. I was like, well I'm a cheerleader here on campus. Um I love music, I love, you know this that you

love music,

what kind of music you like? And I was like, you know, punk and hardcore And you know, uh just, you know, listen off things. So oh my God, wow, that's amazing. She's like, you play any instruments or anything? I was like, Oh, I actually, I do play guitar, you know?

Oh wow. How long you been playing guitar playing since I was like 13. And then uh she was like, Oh, wow, was a musical family. And I was like, no, no, that's and she saw the change when she said family, it was crazy. And I was like, no, it's just, you know, because I was talking about

something when I was talking in a way.

Yeah. I was like, yeah, you know, I've been playing guitar since I was like 13. And you know, musical family. No, no. Yeah. And just kind of a dead, you know? And so she caught that she

was so smart

and I was like, wow, okay, so you know where where does it come from? I was like, I don't know, I think I just organically found it. And then uh she goes, wow, you know, your siblings, you know, play anything? And I was like, no, I'm the only one out of my siblings. And she saw the face change,

like she saw these things like just change and like the body, you know, my body language just kinda, you know, tense up. It was cool. Uh What

was going through your mind when shoes, everything,

everything, everything in my childhood, everything. And I never talked about my childhood ever. I was uh when I when when I got to Miss Barry, I was 2020, it was 20. Um and I know I never never talked about my family to anybody ever. No one at that point. And uh she um she's like um do you do your parents like music? So he's asking these questions and I was like yeah immediately just like and then um she goes what was your childhood like? And I was like oh my god lady. And then I just started bawling, she just pulled it out of me, right? And what

were the what were some of the things you would tell someone um That you wanted to tell someone about your childhood at 20 or 21?

What would I say if anyone asks

when people, I don't know what would you want to say when you look back at the things that you like these are things I wanted to say but I want you because you mentioned that no one had asked you about that and even when you say that I can tell it was not only meaningful that she asked, but there was like things that you felt you you wanted to tell.

Yeah there was a lot I wanted to say and I never said it. Um I never said how much I hated it. You know I hated being uh hated being a kid. You know it wasn't it wasn't fun and I felt like that was taken away, you know? So and I just didn't know how to say that or just didn't know if I ever could say that and there was a lot of things I couldn't accept, I don't wanna I don't wanna you know say that I was an abused kid, I was like I don't want to say that I want to I try to like justify it at times you know the view so I tried to justify it. I didn't want to say like any of that. I don't I'm not that kid.

Did you know any anyone that was abused did you know I'm sure that played in your I imagine

20

year old you was like dude I don't know

anyone like this. I don't know

anyone like this. I'm gonna be I'm gonna sound like I'm broken goods

or yeah I mean I've seen like you know you see it in you know a commercial or something where they talk about you know child abuse or anything of that nature seat on tv you know but that's tv that's not I don't know anyone right around me that that dealt with anything like that. So you know just those simple questions and getting into the family and then she broke down something. She was like you know what PTSD is? And I was like oh that's like for for people

in the army

you know she's like you know you have that and I was like I was like no I was like that's and I was in such denial. I think I even was like not as for the people that fought for you know fight wars and stuff like that. Those are those are that that that's their thing, you know what I mean? You know and she's like um she said it's okay to say you have it and then she broke it down to me and uh when she was breaking it all down man all this stuff just everything just came out everything everything I just spoke about everything. It was it was crazy and I never done that before. That was the first time I ever talked about my childhood to anybody otherwise I was just a mystery to people you know I was just such a mystery like I kept everything in everything which is why I would have released and out you know outburst in such a big way I just kept everything in and you know she was beautiful about it. I loved I loved those sessions with Miss Barry and then I had you know I remember one time I had a session with and this is where my third anger management comes into place and I was having this session with Miss Barry and I had the psychology teacher named Chip Chilton and Chip. Uh I don't like any teacher ever ever but I loved this dude and I was always quiet in his class. He was the only teacher where I actually when he when he spoke or just him teaching in general I never said a word, I was just very attentive to what he was saying right And I remember one day he walked by when I was in my session and there was this thing that I would do with Chip before every class started, I would shake his hand, I go right up to him and shake his hand just because and I never said why and I was always kind of, you know, I never talked to him or anything like that, but I would just shake his hand, right?

And and he such a jolly personality has, you know, always very accepting of the handshake. And it wasn't like I came up to him and was like, hey Chip, it was just mm you know very

why do you think you did

that? I don't know, I think it was maybe it's just cause I liked him, you know? And I just, maybe I just thought he was moving very moving teacher. And uh I remember when I came back came to class that day, I finally asked him, I said, hey you do you know the because he's a psychology teacher. So I assume I was like, hey, you know the lady I was talking to you when when, when you walked by me and he goes, no, I don't I don't know what that is. And I was like,

oh that's oh that's Miss Barry. I was like, she's my anger management teacher. And he goes what I said, yeah, my my anger management teacher, I've been, you know, with their, you know, like, I don't know, maybe got

a double major. Yeah,

yeah, exactly, yeah, I was like, yeah, I've been, you know, going, going, having sessions with Miss Barry for for a while now, and he was like, anger management, He goes I would have lost $1 million. I was like, what? He goes to bet that you go to anger management, because I would have lost $1 million.

The thing that you go through anger management, him and me both, and then he goes, he goes, uh history with the question. He goes, why don't I make you angry? I was like, what? I was like, what are you talking about? This is the first conversation we've ever had because why why don't I make you angry? And I said, what do you talk? I was like, I guess you're a nice guy,

you know, uh there's no why don't I make you angry? And I was like, man Chip, I don't I don't know. He goes, he goes, you know, every time you come into class and you shake my hand, he goes, do you know how happy that makes me, do you know the type of And I didn't know he even thought of it. I think he I like I thought he was just going through the motions of this kid just shakes my hand, everything you know what I mean? I didn't think there was, I didn't think it meant something to him,

I never knew that, I never knew that I could make someone I feel happy about something in a positive way. I didn't know it was like, you know, when he was saying this stuff, I was like, my brain was just like what? You know, being rattled and he goes, I want you to go home and I want you to think about why I don't make you angry. And man, I remember because it was the weekend I remember was going into the weekend and I remember I spent that weekend thinking about thinking real hard as to why. And I can't believe he actually got me to do it, you know, because you couldn't even get me to do homework. You know what I mean? But he was the first teacher to get me to like go home and think

about something. Yeah,

for

a weekend, a weekend I was sitting here thinking

what I was like, man, I don't know. I can't think about what it's gonna make don't make me angry. And I remember, you know, the top of the week, that was like a chip, I don't know. And then he was like, all right. He goes, this is what I want you to do. He was coming to come to my office at lunchtime and I was like, okay. He goes, no pressure,

no, this is easy. He goes uh this isn't doctor to patient. This is a teacher to student. Just gonna become friends. I was like, okay, I was like, I can do that. You know? And I remember, you know, going in his office and you know, he had he had guitars, he had all these items, all these collector items of just things.

He collected everything, you know? And I was like, wow. But like, it wasn't like scattered room, it was all well placed, it wasn't like a dirty office or anything. I was like, man, this is dope. And I don't even remember I picked up his guitar and you know, I even played it or whatever. And um he was like, you're the first student ever touched that guitar, You know,

he was just like impressed. And then um we sit down and again tell me about yourself. And I was like, man, I'm liking this question. Yeah, yeah, man, cheerleader on campus, you know, a punk and hardcore. You know, just that I was, you know, I had my

I had

my field, I had, you know what I would say where I kept its surface, you know? But I mean, obviously their profession is they can catch

things through the surface.

And so he goes, oh, you like punk rock, Tell me tell me some of your favorite bands. And I said, man, you know, you're not gonna know, I was like, you're you're a teacher, man. Like why, why would you know this? You know, he's like, try me and I named one and not only did he tell me about that band, but he told me about other bands that were part of that same era and I was like oh sh it,

I was like wow, I was like that's crazy and then I was sold, I was like wow this is this is the dude, you know, and he basically took things about me and things that I liked and figured out who I idolized, I love Henry Rollins, Henry Rollins uh he was lead singer of black flag, punk rock band, whose lead singer Rollins band, but he does a lot of spoken word uh stuff as well, he now he does all spoken word, he's he's acting in a lot of films and stuff like old school punk rocker but it's really, you know turned his life around and does a lot of a lot of great things and you know he took these things about Henry because Henry was also angry dude and four is an angry dude full of anger and he was like he goes, he helped me, helped me like follow his like story and he goes watch how he transitioned from this angry person of like you know intensity to being able to use his words to be able to calm down and use his words and find intelligence, you know,

to read to to to learn, which helps, which helps yes, which he's found a way to express himself from that and that was the thing that got me on the path that I'm still currently on of just constantly learning, staying curious and always self reflecting. Yeah.

Tell me about the journaling that um or any of the mechanisms that you've

learned

over the years.

Journaling has been the one thing where it helps me always um act with logic and not emotion. That's the thing that journaling has done

for me. Do you have a set time around the day

in the morning? I wake up at 6 30 every day uh you know, get ready, shower and stuff and I usually head out about 7 30 hit a local coffee shop around eight. And I usually just journal Yeah. From from, you know, until I have to go do a podcast or anything of that nature usually is when I how long I'll do it for and I turn off inspiration. So like or whatever the yeah, whatever is let out. So if it's like a page and a half that's what it is. But if it's 10 pages then that's what it is. You know, I don't try to force it anymore just to be like I need a journal this many pages because if I do that I'll go crazy, you know, and it's kind of hard to journal that way. I kind of go off the energy of what I feel about the specific thing that I'm journaling about.

But you know, usually if it's a short journal then it's like usually uh some type of reading of some nature to kind of just keep the brain uh going. But um but yeah that's one thing I discovered is It's where I can be 100% honest and understand that honesty and understand how to use logic out of it. And not just off of emotion. That's where I let out my insecurities. What I'm angry about what I'm sad about what I'm happy about things I want to do. It's literally anything and everything that I can think of is let out in that journal. And that's uh been a process. Uh The process got stronger once I moved to L. A. Because when I moved to L. A. I think I noticed there was this thing of a type of hunger in people in L. A. And it was a different type of hunger that I've never seen before. Um Because it doesn't really happen in Arizona because everyone that usually comes to L. A. They're trying to be something something of the entertainment world, something of the industry. And I would watch people go about go about it in ways that took away their authenticity

and

it took away their authenticity. And also they stopped being a person,

you know, because

one thing I pride myself on and the one thing I just, it's something I've discovered in L. A. Living living out here. I think L. A. Is a wonderful place and everyone, you know, you can talk about it in a way, but I'm like you're talking about a specific type of person, there are real people here, you know, I'm not saying these people live, people are fake, I'm just saying you have to have this, I like having a clock in clock out, right?

I like doing things that have nothing to do with comedy or podcasting or anything of that I like to do, like, and I like to live a life, and I think that's one thing I realized with people out here, it's like they put this this pressure on themselves to have this grind And they think if they're not doing the thing that there's that they want to do 24/7, then it won't happen. But what I've noticed is people burned themselves out from that and I was like, I don't want that, I love comedy too much, that I don't want to burn myself out from it, so I need to have a clock in and clock out if that makes

any sense, for sure. I mean, some of the things that you have mentioned that I reflect on a lot uh in the creator journey is is one just the mentioning the sound and light guys saying like you're gonna bump having the proper expectations is so helpful, there's nothing that will funk with your mind more than having these expected. It's the the equation of happiness as expectations minus experience when your expectations are so high and then the experience is low or middle or maybe it's good, but not as great as the expectations you have, you're gonna have a net negative happiness score in that equation or in life And that proper assessment of expectations when starting out, you know going up on stage, but also when starting out with creating a startup, it's like all right, you're not gonna see signs of life for 16

months and you have to understand

that And you got to understand that because if you try to expect it in 90 days

oh my God

I just quit my job and it's gonna be amazing in two months,

you know that's and that's what I noticed when I came to L. A. A lot of people were writing off this, like I gotta make this happen and it's like if you do what you're supposed to do, you're gonna make it happen? You have to understand that you're going to make it happen and you but you also have to understand it's going to take time to make that thing happen, we can all make it happen, anybody and everybody can make it happen. But it's it's understanding it's being realistic about it,

you know, I

can't just go on stage every night and that just be it, where's my self reflection, where did I reflect, where where did I take the time to sit and do something that had nothing to do with comedy to talk to a friend that wasn't a comedian, you know, I think about my, my last job before I went full time comedy. I worked at a hotel. I worked in hotels like that was like my thing. But I worked in a hotel out here and remember just the appreciation of being there because it had nothing to do with comedy. I loved it. You know, I remember, I remember there was this guy I worked with who helped me understand how to work on credit, work on my credit, my credit score, you know,

this is the dude that worked at the worked at the hotel with me that just loved his job and he loved to travel. He didn't want anything else more than that. And he worked his ass off, you know, to do the things that he wanted to do and I was like this, yeah, that's like, that's dope, you know? But this, this is, this is, you know, a dude that's not of the industry that I could talk to and just, it's a person, you know,

and, and then there's no ulterior motives at times. It's just like, hey man, I just like to work and travel and the simplicity of that. It's beautiful. I like I, I admire admire that. And I, and I, and I pride myself on really trying to keep that attachment of living a life,

you

know, I'm not saying I'm not living my life when I do comedy, I am, but also, you know, when, when can you can you sit down, you know, when when when can you play with your kid, you know, or or or take the missus on a date. These things of, you know, simplicity that I think a lot of times when people come out here to try to be something they forget about, you know, and I don't ever want to forget about those things ever.

Especially because you can just burn through the love of that thing that you love, what it's whether it's a significant other, whether it's music as soon as it's like, all right, this is a job now, like, oh shit, I just burned through that 10 year love of creating music on my guitar. Now, I approach it like a factory worker, what did I do? And

it Does't mean you're not giving 100%.

Oh, for sure. It's Warren Buffett. Like, it

Does not mean you're not giving 100%, it

does not Mean anything. It's like that is 100%. Um, I don't know if there's been your

case. Well,

I don't know if there's been your internal dialogue, but like if you recognize, okay, this is my craft, This is where I can be uniquely useful in the world. This is as I reflect on this question, where can I be most uniquely useful? Where can I be mostly okay, my skill set seems to be here, then you if if you have this vision of, okay, I'm gonna do this for the next 30 years for a long time, then it's not the opportunistic, I want to, how do I get something out of it? It's not like the overzealous, Like how do I use people to bleed the stone and get as much as quickly as it's like,

no, I'm doing this for 30 years, I can, I can and should pace myself because there isn't a craft in the world that you won't burn yourself out on um, by doing it too much. I mean go to the gym too much and there isn't anyone that knows what they're talking about the gym that wouldn't say like, dude, that's not

how you do it.

And yet we do that with work. And yet so many americans do that with work

to do. My ultimate favorite things to do is, you know, whenever I do something cool or do something big and the first time I ever did this was the first time I opened for joe Rogan reached out to me to open for him at the comedy store. Right? And I remember that was such a big moment and a lot of my peers, you know, in the comedy world, you know, uh, of my same level, saw that go down and there was so much praise and you know, and, and Rogan being so kind and everything and I remember, you know, it was the most money I made on the show in L. A.

You know, to that day and I had to go to work. It was so funny, I'm sitting here opening for joe Rogan at the comedy store, sold out main room, you know the next morning I had to be at work at 5:30 a.m. You know? But like that that was that was that I go out, this is what I do. I don't have, I'm not at a joe Rogan level to where I I still have to go to work, you know. But but but like it was it was such a high, such a massive high and one of my favorite things to do whenever I have these massive highs, my best friend lives in riverside, I run away to his house for the weekend and I just exist. He didn't ask me about anything of comedy or whatever.

We we we just have the friendship that we've that we've always had, you know, he lets me be a person, you know what I mean? That's that's one thing I get really excited about, you know? Because yeah, like especially now, like as I've grown in this now I'm getting people recognizing me in the most random places. I'm walking off the plane, someone recognizing me, you know, I'll be in some random town and someone was in Springfield Missouri and went to a coffee shop and you should tell lacey, you know, like, like you don't get

to my house today, I recognize you don't

get me wrong those things are nice things, but I don't want that to be the thing that uh I drive for like that, I don't want that to be the thing that I drive to hear people you know praise me

or whatever. Where did you learn these these uh extreme mature

pieces

of wisdom to nap because you're touching on the patient's part of things patients I like to think of is its complete trust until it's complete knowledge, meaning like patience is like alright people just say patience is key, let me just trust that sometimes completely sometimes blindly, but really it's even better when you know it's complete knowledge of like everyone's story that I when you really can peel back the curtain, see their story, it's like that she was 10 years in the making, That was nine years in the making, that was 14 years in the making and and you realize oh through knowledge, it's like I have to I have to inject patients into this because this false notion that I had or my roommates have or my friend has of like it's going to happen within

12 months

is not only destructive to your mentality but just so so wrong, but between the that that patient's side of things um the expectation side of things that we touched on. Where did you, did you have a mentor that was helping you with any of these

things man, I don't know exactly where they found that as much as I guess okay I just being observant and really watching the way others work you know And um and mainly protecting my sanity because I was like man I know the things that make me go crazy,

you

know like overworking myself uh staying on something that I can't figure out and not in moving in stepping back from it um hanging around and I don't like to hang out with. One of the things I don't do is like when I get off stage I leave, you know as soon as I'm done like mainly around town obviously if I'm on the road like I'm doing meet and greets and stuff like that you know because these are people that actually you know coming up to see me but like during like shows in town like you kind of just running sets, you're building your material in town. Um But

why

do I leave? Um mainly because it's the I got I want to clock out, you know I've done I did the thing and all the people I see like it's not like I don't respect those people. That's that's not the that's not the thing. And also when I've noticed like hanging around like I don't like feeling like uh like like like I'm trying to like who was here that you know any industry people here or anything of that nature or like to I don't I don't like to uh and that this um not I'm not disrespecting networking because you know, I think that happens, but my personal thought is I go, if I did as good as you know, if I did really good, someone will reach out, they'll reach out. If they really want to get a hold of me, they'll reach out. And it's not it's not arrogance, it's just I don't do well in those situations. I am a bit of an introvert when it comes to groups and talking and you know, um and just hanging in that those kind of environments,

you know, it's like I already did the thing. I was like let me just let me just kind of, you know, just kind of get my way out of here, go home, reflect. It's my favorite thing to do because there's just like this, I don't know this relief and and to to be able to have this moment of a thing to myself and to sit there and just think about what I did and understand it's like, okay what was what was it with that said that didn't work or whatever blah blah. You know, and then once I'm done with that, I can just lay down and go to sleep and wake up and start the day again, you know, and head back to the routine. But

could you could you walk can you walk listeners and actually it's uh

it

seems connected to the the observation you had of a lot of folks in L. A. That don't clock in clock out and burn themselves out. But it seems like that inauthenticity was also not only are you gonna burn out but also that you said they lost their authenticity. You think that's that's at risk when you come off stage and now you're like I wanna be this for this person. How can I be this

for that? Yeah. Yeah.

Is that what you mean by the loss? Walk me through like anti chappelle the not you or maybe

the you losing losing

24

that didn't because because what I've noticed is people try to find ways to be a part of something and they'll shift these things about themselves to try to be a part of that thing. Like some people will come out to L. A. And maybe they were the head honcho in their town and they'll still they'll come out here with that same energy. I didn't come out here with that energy. A lot of people also do come out here as if they know let me act like I know it so I can like and I came out here and I was like I don't know anything about it. So I'm not going to come out here and act like I know because I feel like also those things are exhausting because now you're living in this way like I said and that's what pulls out the authenticity because you're shifting your, your way of thinking and your way of life and what from what you originally are grounded on. And now you're doing these things to try to be in this area. If I, if I, you know, uh I'm trying to best uh if I wear this shirt or if I, you know, if I talk this way or yeah, if I get in the mm a then I can give me a connection with joe Rogan. If I get into this that can give me and that's not how I roll.

And I've watched a lot of people do that being out here and I was like, oh and I journal about, I was like, oh and these were like things like don't, don't do that. Like just just work so hard. The thing I guess my you know grounded grounded principles that I have are just just work your ass off to be good at what you do, be good to yourself and be good to people. And those are the three things that I, you know like to hold hold on to be good to yourself, be good to others and kick ask at what

you want to do, right?

Those are those are things that

and, and none of those really have much to do with networking as and exactly in Silicon Valley. I remember reading steve martin's autobiography and getting so much out of that perspective and I think the quotas be so good,

they can't ignore you where

it actually is very quieting to the soul where you're like, oh that's the thing. In my twenties I built companies where it was just like chappelle. What do you think of that? I need, I need validation from you from this person from this part. Everyone, oh you're an investor. Let me wiggle around to the best investor at this so that I can see how In their eyes, how I'm doing instead of I'm 36 now. And it's if, if it isn't good enough the product, if the company isn't good enough then then I want to know that and I seek that type of validation because there is this um comfort and knowing and quietness of the soul if you just know like, oh that's the secret sauce is be so damn good. They

can't ignore you.

And, and then it's like, oh that's actually really simple. Be damn

good. I'd rather I'd rather work hard on being a good comedian and being good to people and being good to myself than to work hard to like network in a way to maybe I wasn't and maybe I wasn't ready for that gig that I worked so hard to network for and then I go up and then I didn't do the

thing that I was,

you know like, and all of a sudden you like miss these moments. Whereas I'd rather just if someone, you know, obviously if someone like asked me to hey I saw you go up, I want you to come and do this thing, you know? The thing I always thought that I already know is that I was in already in preparation to do this thing because I've put the focus on working my ass off to just be good and you know, constantly figure that out instead of just working hard to do the network because I think what I think what people don't realize and have the fear of is that if they're not doing something or talking to some someone of importance then they won't get in. And I don't think that's the case, I don't think that's the case at all, you will get in, but you just have just work at the thing that you you're supposed to work at, you know, like for me it would be the stand up comedy work at that work at work at the stand up comedy and I'm telling you the things that you know, you see people get the people that you looked up to and that they get those things will happen and I trust that I trust that those things will happen and it it makes me like I never feel disappointed because I know at the end of the day these are the three things that I'm working on, those be good to yourself, be good to people and work as were cast off at the you know

on the comedy. This episode is also brought to you by charge. Be imagine this, you're launching your subscription product and you need to invoice your first few customers you integrate with the payment gateway, write some code to support recurring billing and you start charging things up stuff seems to work until you need to create tax compliant invoices or set up flexible trials and run pricing experiments yikes or integrate with more than one gateway. You winks, billing needs grow as business needs grow. Every line of code you write for your billing system contributes to the spaghetti nightmare that will keep you away from your core product. Don't do that. Charge B is here to help we replace in house billing systems and spreadsheets by giving teams the ability to set up subscription plans and trials run pricing experiments at scale, analyze accurate subscription analytics, accept multiple payment methods and much much more right out of the box charge the works with global payment gateways like stripe Braintree Paypal everybody and integrates

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For

charge, be dot com slash partners. Sign up and enter your details with the coupon code B. T. L. For below the line. B. T. L. And then you complete your sign up within seconds. Super easy. Charge be rocks. You always know these things or was there a younger you at 24 25 that I thought okay I need a network, I need to. No

no no no. I took that in like because um you know when I thought about cheerleading I was like oh I kind of just got good at it and just didn't really think like oh I need a you know, be around this team and just hang around and eventually you know maybe they'll let me on the team or anything of that nature. Like kind of like I was like I don't want to finagle my way into anything. I don't want to go through the back door for anything. I was like, how about I just, you know, do the thing that you originally supposed to do. You know like that, that I was like, that's the thing that you gotta reach for and I'd rather lean towards that than than anything else. Yeah, not that I say, listen people have networked and they found their way through it, but for me personally, I just don't think it necessarily works because I don't necessarily like to have many conversations because I feel like,

I don't know, I was just like, when something is definite, it'll be definite, but if it's not, then I, I don't necessarily want to have a conversation, you know what I mean? And then that's it, I mean, it sounds weird and I'm trying not to sound like it's arrogant at all, but I'm just saying that what what I've found to work best for me is rolling that way

well. And it's in that, that uh it's in that vein of this complete knowledge when you, when you have these like very low fidelity, low resolution uh stories of people, you can either think like Eddie Murphy, it's like, oh, you get to do that once you're in the club, like no, there's 10 years of work and then they're in, but you're seeing them up on stage, not because they were born in anything, they just worked their way to it. And when you learn those stories, every single one of them, like every single same with the startup realm,

like I remember thinking man instagram a year in, got bought for a billion dollars, That's insane. That's what a successful startup looks like. And then learned the real story that those mofo Eft up so bad, they built two companies before they left up. So bad with instagram that they had to rebrand it completely, it was like they built a company called bourbon for a year, went nowhere, then took up one tiny feature of that, the filters and they had messed up so bad, they rebranded completely as this new app called instagram and then it wasn't even a year, year and a half, but all of these things like I look back and I'm like, oh, it's the real stories, that's the beauty of podcasts, you get to hear the long form versions of people's stories the but that complete knowledge, once you actually have the knowledge of like patients, it's not like that's

what it is for me, it's like, I'd rather I'd rather have the stronghold of patients than and then impatience of anything else, like because I feel like when you're trying to reach for these things and like trying to grab at these things, your impatience and if you don't have any patients then it's, it just doesn't necessarily give you a better flow, you know, the impatience and the constant of trying to like it's choppy,

have you seen friends in comedy that operate with a lot of impatience or operate with a big, big,

big, big time, you know, and what's

an example of obviously not personal details but like what's the story of someone that comes to mind where you're like they were good

actually had talent people. I've seen people talk their way into getting a chance to go up at some of the big, the big clubs in L. A. And they've talked their way in there and then they go up there and then they fumble and they fumbled because they did more talking to get their way in than to just be good and then that person go, that's how you go up, that was good. I want you to come to a spot, you know tonight or whatever next night, you know? You know what I mean? Like that's that's a cooler story.

That's

how you, that's how you would want it, you know? And and um I just, yeah, I just really found that to work for me and it's almost put me in this like weird mystery to people because I do uh kind of just, I go in and you know, pretty much get out and they're just like, man, you just, you just goes and does the thing and then and then leaves and um, but if I did the damn thing on stage, they'll know and then if, if it's something they want to pursue it, they'll, they'll they'll find me and uh I don't, I just really pride myself on,

you know, having the patients in that area cause I'm like, those things are given those comes with the territory of this world, of what we do, those big gigs, you're gonna get in that club, you're gonna, you're gonna get there, you're gonna get there, just have the patience for yourself and just continue to work at the thing I'm telling it like, like it's, it's, it's the better result. It's the result. You,

you would want for

someone for someone to come up and go, hey, I saw you go up and man, that was, that was amazing, Can I book you next week? That, that's that's the, that's the thing you want to hear, you know? And I think that's just, I'm trying to really, yeah, I guess just from being observant throughout it throughout being out here in L. A. And observing it so quick, you know,

like the first night I was out, you know, I remember when I first got to L. A. I would go to the open mics and a lot of open mics there like bucket pool. So you put your name in the bucket and you know, pull out a lot of times. The person that's hosting the open mic. They put a lot of their friends up, right, they'll put their friends like, hey man, let me pull my name and here's, here's the thing, I wasn't getting up. I didn't know anybody,

Right? I didn't know anybody, but you know what I did, It didn't take that long, honestly, kind of crazy. Um, but you know what, you know what I did? I sat there and watched the whole, the whole open mic because I sat there, I would sit there and watch because I was like, you know, when I get my chance on, I don't know what to do. So if I sit here and just watch and pay attention and see how people touch this stage and then when I get my chance,

I'll be able to like go up there and deliver my best. So I take it as like, most people would just leave, they're like, oh, I didn't get up, I'm leaving. I'd sit there the whole time and I would just watch because I was like, well, what else am I gonna do? I was like, I'm not getting up at these mics yet and I think just, you know, some of these hosts that we're just seeing me sit there and watch the whole show and kind of wait for my time. It just took one person to give me a shot. And then when that happened, that's when things started to flow for me. Yeah. Do

you mind? I want to, um, especially for listeners benefits, We've had a few comedians on the podcast, but I've never done like a real specific deep dive into just what the life of comedians like. So I want to ask about that in the here and now. But um, you mentioned that was it two years off for three years off that, you

know, Yeah, almost three years.

And what, what happened there and what did you, what was life like for? Yeah, man,

that was, that was the first time I, you know, ever, like I said when, when, when I, when I started comedy, I felt like it was something that was mine, but I was still in kind of black, blackout mode of life and after my brother passed, I think that was the first time life had hit me and I, it gained clarity oddly enough, you know, usually you would just kinda fall from that and, and I was going to fall. I was,

I was, that's why I quit drinking because of what it was doing to me emotionally. Um, I had this weird mindset to where I was set on. I didn't want to get close to anybody in the world anymore. It was just too heartbreaking, you know, things in my childhood And I lost my best friend in 2009, Then four years later lose my brother. There's just things that made me wanna, I, I didn't want to commit suicide. I just didn't want to exist around people and I was like planning on moving to like a small town and just working a regular job and letting that be my life. I don't want to do anything, you know, that

was younger brother,

older brother, oldest brother, oldest oldest brother, oldest brother and only full blooded siblings that I had, you know, and so I was just, I don't know, I didn't want to do anything. I told the story on finding the kid. Actually when my brother passed I got uh he made me the beneficiary of his life insurance and I got 75 grand, got 70 $75,000 for it and I hated having that money. I hated it so much. I hated it every time I look at my bank account, I was just like, I just, I just couldn't, you know, I

don't know, I couldn't,

yeah, you know, I was like,

man, I didn't do anything

for this money, you know, like would the thing that helped me is uh just started helping people. That's what helped me. That's 75 grand anytime anyone said they needed help with something, not even if I just overheard it. Like this was all organic. It was just, I hated seeing having that money. I'll just help people out. My friend on the cheer gym, he needed some equipment. I was like, oh hey, he here you go take this, you know, and not and then again,

not even realizing what I was doing to people's hearts by giving, you know when they were in a time of need, you know, and meanwhile there's a guy who's depressed from his brother passing this guy just out here giving it's insane to some people. But yeah, I don't know, I just started doing that. I just couldn't figure out what else to do. And that was just the thing I just started doing. So I end up getting rid of all that money because I was like, man, I could get, I was like, I can get 75 grand again, may take a while, but I was like,

I can't get my brother back, You know what I mean? And that was like something that like hit me like I was like the 75 grand, it's not making me happy. Um I mean I even I even, you know, bought my first car and it was tough driving that car crazy enough. The car got totaled. Um It was while it was parked, it got totaled and that car went away and I wasn't too upset. That wasn't and when I think of, I mean to my friends, I'm like, yeah man, I can't believe that happened to me, but I wasn't, I was like, that's a car.

How did your brother pass

away? Oh, did accidental overdose? Um You know? Yeah, he had struggled with pills. Yeah. And he was often for a while, you know, he was working a really good job when he got drug tested stuff and I think he just had a night. This is how it was explained to me through the coroner's office. I think he just had a night and then it just took his life, you know? And so the, you know, I lose two of the most significant people in my life. My brother and my best friend, my best friend died in a suicide, you know, and

my sister passed away from

suicide. Yeah. And, and so that, like, and that was the closest, like, these people are the most significant people in my life, closest people to me knew anything and everything about me, right? And to lose

them.

And these guys were basically like my protectors. They were the strength of me and to lose them. Man. I was like, what am I, what, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do now? I'm the oldest brother of my siblings. Now they're now they're looking at me, you know, for for guidance, You know, the beauty of that. It did help me reconnect with my mom, also reconnected with my biological father and it helped me to understand forgiveness to my stepfather. You know, all these things that I mean, it took

time. How long, how long did that process take?

It took a while. The mom, the re connection with my mom was pretty instant. Um, that, that like, You know, as soon as he passed, it was just like an immediate, like a magnet? You know? Um, and then my biological father, I reached out, so my brother died when I was 26. Mom and I were connected immediately. And then I reached out to my biological father when I was 30. Yeah, that's 30.

When did you feel like going back on

29, 29, 29? I was like, like what it was,

I'm

just trying to remember everything correctly as possible.

But yeah, the wild Turkey man hell of a drug. This might not be a good proxy for um kind of getting back to a place where uh, felt healed,

but

and so tell me if there is a better proxy, but when did you start comedy again? And is that a good proxy for when you felt

yourself again? Yeah, that is great. Um 2016, 2 buddies of mine Brent morin and Jason Collins. Um They were doing three

years later, three

years later. Yeah, they were doing the comedy club, the local comedy club back home in Arizona. And I remember during that time, a lot of people ask me, would ask me to do shows like, hey man, can I book you for? And I would say I would always say no, I'd say no every time. And then I went to go hang out with them and watch them perform. And then um they were like, you're going up. I was like, what? I didn't have time to say no.

But yeah, you're going up, you're going right after, you know, these are my my buddies that said yeah you're going up tonight, They didn't know, no one knew that I didn't want to do comedy, no one knew that I was depressed, no one knew like any of that um he's just like you're going up and I was like Oh my God, it was like seven you know? And I tried to do comedy like a couple of times within those three years and I just couldn't connect with it, just couldn't you know, but went up there and that was that was the first time I ever felt real on stage and I think before when I was doing comedy I was just saying things just to say something funny, but that was the first time ever felt real, it felt authentic. What do you mean?

I just, I talked about my life in the way of what it was yeah and I didn't hold back. It was, it was, it was kind of crazy, I was like oh my God, wow. And then to see that reaction from people, I was like yep, that's what it is. Yeah, that's what it is.

People talk about finding voice, I serve so I imagine it's kind of like surfing where you like watch it and you just you try it and then it just starts to happen um

Yeah

is, was there anything you could have done to speed up finding your voice like or is it just process just doing it and doing and

doing and he was just doing it and doing it and finding it along the way. Um,

was there something about your emotional state that allowed you to find it that night of almost like detachment from

Yeah, I guess the detachment from comedy let me take a step back and understand the reality of the things that I was in there. There's this like, hey, you're, you're not okay. Your brother died, not you're not fine. I tried to get and I remember that just made me think of something I try to get myself a timeline of when I would be better. God,

I remember that. Yeah, Yeah. I remember being like, I'll be able to laugh in six months.

Yeah. And that was the worst thing I could have ever done. But that's where that disappointment comes in. Look, I think I found it. Okay. So yes, learning that disappointment of, I'll be better in three months. I'll be good, I'll be fine. No, it don't work like that. And I think that helped me understand the patients that I have now with what I do today. I think going through that it's like, don't, don't give yourself a timeline,

Just keep working your ass off. Don't give yourself a timeline, work your ass off, work your gas off in a way to where you keep your sanity, all this stuff and that. I think it was going through that, that helped me understand that, you know, and Once I got back into comedy in 2016

and just,

you know, it just, it just didn't stop. Yeah, I just haven't, yeah, I just kept going

something that uh, that I've been telling a lot of founders and, and portfolio companies that have invested in is, and this might be the company that they're two years into being a founder, maybe six months into being a founder. And I've been telling them my experience is that it's a 10 year journey and I actually got that from comedians, You wouldn't expect someone that's a comedian to hit the ground running and knock the cover the ball off seven months in six months like that. But startups, people jump into like starting a company, whatever company, it could, it could be someone that's starting a company as a landscape architect, could be starting a company as a, starting a restaurant doesn't really, doesn't really matter. But the idea that, oh, my first restaurant is gonna rock is probably in that same area code of, maybe there's a better way to get a little bit more complete knowledge of the heroes that you have in your head, a little bit more of a proper expectation. And most startup journeys are 10 years.

Yeah, you know what, and okay, put it this way

when I think about it and I got that from comedians.

Yeah, so I've been here for four years, right? And I've done some of the, My 3rd week of living here, um I got in at the comedy store to get in the development spots, which eventually, you know, you eventually passed on to a regular or whatever, like that was the third week of living here. Um,

my

fifth month of living here, manager from big management company, you know, signed me, uh, I was starting to do all these like, big things that joe Rogan thing was, you know, all within that first year or whatever, and then all of a sudden like this, it just kept going, kept going. So, so what with that being said, You know, people are like, man,

like, you've only been here four years, it feels like you've been here for like 10 years with the amount of things you've done, like, man, how do you get things so fast? And I go, I'm not getting things fast, I was working hard before I got here, I was working my ass off. Like, that's what I brought over here, I worked my ass off in Arizona and got to a point to where I was just well loved and where the clubs, the clubs back home was just booked me to open for the big dogs that were coming through for the weekend and it gave me so much stage time or whatever. And I remember when I got here, I was like,

okay, you can't, you're not the big dog here. I was like, you know what, you know the big dog is here? You know the big dogs are that are here, Bill Burns here, joe Rogan's here, all these, all these, all these, you know, Eliza slash linger, like all these comics, they're here,

you're not the big dog, you know, the big dog, what you do have is work ethic. So I took the work ethic that I had back home and brought it here

and it's and a healthy balance like that ability to clock in. I think it sounds counterintuitive because people think like passion is 24 7, but passion isn't 24 7. Passion is a 30 year view. Like this is what I'm built for. So obviously want to do this for a long

time. If I, if I, if I don't clock out then I won't have anything to talk about on stage. That's how I see it. If I just keep going and going and keep going eventually start talking about nothing. You know what I mean? Like that's like how I feel like I won't be talking about anything if I don't clock out if I don't reflect if I don't live life, if I don't go explore something. If I don't go to a concert, if I don't take a trip then I can't, I can't have nothing to talk about?

Well, speaking of what, what is the, what is the day to day of being a comedian that's nine years in three podcasts? How many shows a week? How many,

how

much are you getting up on stage? But I'd love to start it with just what were you journaling about this morning? If you remember

this morning? Damn. I just finished 1 2. I just have like a crate that has like all these old journals.

That's

awesome. Oh gosh, this morning, this morning. Morning morning. Oh, my transition of going on my own and leaving fighter and

the kid. What were some of the reflections that you don't

mind sharing? Yeah, not at all. Not at all. Um, just the fact of understanding that any time I've ever, like I said earlier, ever doubled down on myself, it's always been, I've always seen great results from it. Just from believing in myself as an individual to be able to stand alone and to leave something, you know, that's well established, that has lots of fans that watch it, you know, you know, you know,

has, it has, it has something, you know, there's, there's a lot to it and to leave that into, you know, not necessarily start from like, you know, ground zero, whatever, you know, that like I have a foundation, but it's enough of a foundation for me to walk as an individual and that's one thing I've noticed within, um, transitioning out of that is that,

hey, you have this, this, this and this and this and this. All right, these are, these are like I have these these tools to to be able to take, take myself anywhere. I want to take myself.

How long did you wrestle with that decision of leaving a known to go into a little bit of an unknown

man? I wrestled it for a while because I

six

months. Yeah, about a year. I felt it was just like, man, I just kept remember there's times we'd be doing episodes and my brain would be on a different thing. That was something I could do for me. How

long did you wrestle with moving to L. A. Was that that

wasn't, that wasn't a wrestle at all? No, that was this is what got me moving to L. A. Ready? One of my um I was like, man, you know, brian talked about moving to tell me I should move to L. A. Maybe I'll do it. All right. I said that and then I want to say a few months later, one of my friends was like, hey I heard you were thinking about moving to L. A. We just had a room open up. Um It's yours if you want it. And then I packed my stuff and moved to L.

A. How

long? It was like it was unconscious,

it

was like like a month. Yeah, like a month.

But after

because I obviously had to like, you know, but but you know what was beautiful about me moving to L. A. Because I lived in Kentucky. I lived in texas. I lived in Athens and then uh you know spend some time in uh Illinois for a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh I

haven't heard that in forever

wow

wow

wow

wow I haven't heard that forever. But um

I feel like

any time, any time I moved out of Arizona um I was always running away. Even when I went to Athens even I felt like I was always running away because I was I always thought of Arizona is bad because of the things I dealt with things and how I grew up all these things. But the thing the difference when I when I moved to L. A. It was the first time I didn't feel that baggage and I and that's when I knew I would do really well is because I didn't have any baggage. You know there's there's this beauty and self reflection for I think anybody like I don't think it just needs anyone of of of the industry or businesses entrepreneurs, there's beauty and self reflection. You really have to do it because if you don't do it you're gonna hit a ceiling. The self reflection doesn't let you hit a ceiling, it lets you go further and further and further. That's what I've noticed

the power of dialogue is certainly powerful. It's amazing.

But we couldn't we couldn't have this conversation

over twitter. No and we also wouldn't even have these thoughts. I wouldn't be thinking to myself. Damn the power of patients across different fields. I wouldn't be thinking to myself and these different reminding myself of these things like be so good. They can't ignore. But also you're touching on the beauty of self reflection. It's also going through my head of damn chappelle is really prioritizes reflection.

Yeah. Because once I learned that I was like damn, I was crazy.

I was blind. I was

blind to the fact that how crazy

I was.

And so to be able to understand that I was like, I'm never going back. I'm never going back. I was just saying going back to the dialogue thing, you know. MS Barry had to see my body language to understand how to how to have the conversation with me. You couldn't do that over social media. I

can't can't email

back and forth. It's the body language. You know, like like I said,

she said,

she said, you know, your family, history of music, your family, you know, relatives play music, family. And she saw the change in my face. That's the beauty of dialogue and face to face dialogue is because like I said, we couldn't have this conversation. Yeah, it's different. It's just you can't tell you can't get a gauge of body language through that. You know that's the beauty of that. But yes, back to the self reflection. Yeah, I really Yeah, I

like it

tell.

Okay, so you mentioned the journaling each morning. Um, and then you also mentioned the leaving the set and then reflecting on how the set went. So walk me through and listeners that have never seen this is so obviously you've

been doing it

for a walk me through the whole process the whole week. Like

you ready? So for reflecting on like a set. Okay. So say there's a joke that I do that didn't really hit as well. But all the other jokes did right? Um, I do a joke about my abusive stepfather, right? So I go up on stage. I tell this joke. I remember when I was starting to do this joke. Um, and after every time I go, man, why is this joke not hitting? I was like, I was like,

I can't give up on this joke. I was like, I'm at a point in my life to where like I'm not set, you know, I'm not upset or whatever, blah, blah, blah. And then I started listening back to, you know, or just not, not necessarily, no, no. Actually I don't record myself, but I just have this vivid memory.

Like I just know I just know exactly what the hell I just did up there. And, and I go, what what was it? You know, because I stay in the moment so much on stage and I go, what the hell was it? Why is it not hitting? And then I realized, oh, I sound angry. I still sound upset about that situation. I was like, that's what it is. I was like, oh my God,

I was like, man, I've never even talked to him, wow, I should probably talk to him and see what it is now. Even if it does go bad, at least I can say I did it.

How long does it take you to reflect on that? Was that a 15 minute? That

was no, no, that was just constantly doing that joke and it constantly just not hitting to make me to make me realize and go, oh, I sound mad. That's what it is, I'm mad. Still I sound upset. Maybe I'm not as okay about the situation. Then I journal that whole period of time with my stepfather and uh, to clarify because people, I don't know, I know there's this weird thing where people get my adoptive father and stepfather confused. I'm like stepfather is not my adoptive father. So, but yeah, and then I,

I I started to learn about his story. I was like, oh he has a story. I was just as I do just as just as I'm walking through everything about me and my mom, they're not together, they haven't been together forever, but they still have a brother with special needs. So they still have to see each other for, for him. Um and you know, she would tell, she would tell me these things about him that I never knew, you know, I just never process, I was like, wow, he didn't

he didn't he

he would say this thing where he really thought he was a good dad, right? And I believe he does, I believe he thinks that I go, why wouldn't he? Because his dad wasn't around, his dad left him. So the fact that he was around, he thinks he was a good dad, he don't he doesn't know how to be a dad because he never had anyone,

at least he didn't do that one thing that his dad didn't believe.

Yeah, exactly. So he didn't he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, and I get that and and the the strength I've had to gain to be able to understand that because that that takes a lot of power to be able to understand this person who did you wrong and treated you bad and to be able to understand their story and go, damn, I get it, I get it, that makes sense, wow. And to not, and then I've gotten to a point and this may sound crazy, but I don't take any of it personal. I've learned to not take it personal. I'm like, whatever that's that's what happened, that's what happened. I can't take that away.

I can't take that away. Anyone that's ever gone through anything like that. You can't take it away. It's a thing that did happen, but you have options. You can either take your power back in your way and be comfortable and uh, decided to walk your life, your life in a different way and go, that's not the thing I want to ever do. And I would never do that to someone and to let go of that hate you have for this person and to let go with love. That's that's, this is the power of my journaling, discovering all this and how I found this uh, way to be able to be mature, emotion. Yeah,

emotionally mature. I guess if that's the word I'm determined I'm looking for, um, I just think there's this, there's this thing in, I can sit here and go after him with ease, right? But I'd never be satisfied. Say say I did get him in trouble. They say he went to jail. So he went to prison. I'm still angry. I still don't like him, the jail him going to prison or anything that didn't settle the hate that I have that, that didn't do anything for that. You know,

that didn't that in. It never will. So I was like, how about I just take that hate and just understand it and understand why it's not good for me to do. So I'm not saying like this is how

everybody should do it. How old were you when you started to have

this? Have that? Oh, that was, that was more so recent. I'd say probably 33, yeah. 33, 34 I'm 35 now. I turned 30, I turned 35 back in January. Is

there a spiritual component to, to the way that you handle some of these situations? Or is it just the journaling? The reflection is almost like a selfish component of recognizing like, okay, this isn't serving me, this is expensive

to hold on to this. It's so expensive. It's so expensive. Um, I just think, I think the true foundation of it all is just realizing how crazy I was, you know, and realizing how much it was holding me back, you know, being able to let go of all that stuff and and being able to, you know, get to the point to where I am now, now I have passion now I have a passion for something. Now I understand I have this clarity of where, where I'm going and what I'm doing, you know, otherwise like before that things were just fuzzy. It was just all fuzz like there was no clarity to what was going on and that's all because of holding on to the, to the crazy stuff.

I was riding around in a like a 1960 car recently and it was so loud inside. I had this kind of realization of like that's why people started listening to music so loud because I and our suv now it's like a 2014 carbon, it's pretty silent. So like, you know, just the music's on and I just, you're seeing movies, like people blaring the music. You see some people drive down the street blaring music and in this 1960 year old car I realized like, oh, that's why you have to blare the music so loud because the car is so damn loud. And it got me thinking of just like life when there's so much noise, internal chatter. It's when we do the noisiest external things because we feel like it's got to be so noisy. I've got to get so drunk. I've got to go do these crazy ostentatious like things to get validation because it's so noisy inside. And when you're in

a silent car, you're like, damn, I could

get close to like NPR not quite

there.

I could listen to something, I could turn the music, I could turn the radio off. And lately I actually really enjoyed driving silently and that's, that would have seemed so strange to me even two years ago, three years ago,

it

is beautiful. And yet I would have like in my, when I was 18 when I was 22 the car was like my space to blare music and, and I wonder, um,

I

wonder if there's like this momentum that you gained of, of excavating these things of reflecting on these things and then it's just that point in which someone can realize this is expensive holding onto this stuff.

Oh, I mean, I stopped the noise in my head. All that noise that was in my head and in my heart I stopped it. Yeah, I was able to turn, I was able to finally turn it off.

Yeah. My after my sister passed away, I remember for two years having dreams that she was still alive.

Oh dude, I know exactly what you mean

and I just couldn't and I realized I can't accept this. Like yes, consciously when I'm awake, I accepted. But there is a deep part of me that cannot accept this and I need to accept it because these dreams it got beyond, it was almost like administrative in the morning of having to remind myself no, that was a dream. This, this happened, this is real and it was expensive to subconsciously and in some deep level hold on to away the world wasn't and realize that I think it's gonna serve me much better to realize. This is one of many things that are going to

happen in life

that I cannot change. And that that power of reflection that you're talking about is uh like none of us would go. None of us, very few people are mature enough to just go through life without looking in a mirror the morning afternoon. That's what you risk when you don't reflect journal, go deep into like how you like you saying like you didn't realize how mad you are, how how angry you were. Like it's that's what you risk if you're a listener and you just never excavated if not daily journal, that is what you risk of going around town with this. You know something about mary style hair sticking up, having no clue what you're giving off without. And this is next level amount of reflection you're, you're laying down for for myself and listeners of recognizing you even in a joke like, oh damn, I'm, I'm angry

you even, I mean even if you don't do comedy and I feel like you're doing something of the whatever world you're in, whether it's your manager and you're managing uh, a staff and you get word constantly that you're just a mean manager and just constantly, you know, that's

from, that's

the time where you should look at that and go, man, I need a damn, I am. I am a mean ask manager and like self reflect on that and understand like, oh man, that's because of this right here. And I can't, I can't be a good, I can't be a manager and hold this position have long longevity in it. If I'm not self reflecting on myself to be able to deliver my best to people, you know, because some people were looking at it. Like I'm a manager. Yeah, yeah, like this the title.

Exactly,

exactly. And it's like just because you earned something doesn't mean you stop there now. It's now it's another layer I left fighter and the kid now it's another layer to understand of myself now. I'm now I'm on a new chapter of understanding me now. Now there's this other avenue where I get to figure out and discover new things about me.

Okay, so back to the day in the life and the week. Really the week I would love to know the week traveling. So okay, so like last night we're recording this on a thursday last night, did you have a set? Do you walk

me through actually

like this this week? What does this week look like

for chappelle? Last night? Oh, last night I went to a concert. That's what it was, man, I'd

be doing so much.

Yeah, yeah, I clocked out, you know, like took time uh this punk band called the Amazon the Sniffers, It's Australian punk man. Uh So I went to a concert last night with a friend. I haven't seen him in a while. It was good to catch up with. Um but usually, so the start of my week, um I'll go prior to quitting finally today or this week has been my last week. So um monday. Um Monday. Top of the morning, hit the journal. Uh 6:30 a.m. Wake up and that's not by an alarm.

That's just my body goes alright and I kind of accepted that. It's like, you know, that's like if I if my eyes open, I go, that's what I'm supposed to wake up, you know? So I don't, I don't do the whole like, well, let me lay down for a few more minutes.

Some of the best advice I ever got in my life. I mentioned this on the podcast from a sleep doctor saying, wake up every morning at the exact same time. It sets your body's biological circadian rhythm. 24 hour circadian rhythm of just knowing. All right, James about to wake up, let's start to release cortisol to help wake them up. Like all of these functions you work with instead of against, but okay, so 6 30 monday,

6:30 Monday, uh, shower. Then uh, head out, go to my normal whatever coffee shop I want to choose for that day to go to in journal, then I'll journal. And then, uh, around 11 I head out to calabasas, go do the podcast um podcast from like 12 to 2, then after the podcast. Uh usually go have lunch one of my really good buddies. Um, I usually go have lunch with him, then I'll probably have a set for that night. If I don't have a set,

then I'm doing something like, oh, did I not clean this part of the house today? Did I not do this or whatever. He'll usually, that's what it is. And um, Tuesday, same thing, you know, So monday, monday through Wednesday. That's what that that constant is, Thursdays is usually when I travel to go hit the road and do a city. So, thursday's the travel day um go out,

hit the road. We, I usually get, I get in the day of the show. So usually after my flight just got a few hours in between show time after I land to get to my hotel and all that stuff.

Go do, what are you doing that time? Are you bored in that time? Is it

maybe

the next day,

am I on

a few hours

on those that few hour period from the from the landing to hotel to uh usually a fresh shower. Um Then like a couple of motivational things. I'll write to myself to, you know, walk into my weekend of headlining shows, then go do the, usually it's like one show on a thursday night, then go back after that show, go back home, reflect, do all that sleep, wake up, go journal

at a coffee shop

then uh then I'll, after I journal at the coffee shop, I'll go explore the town that I'm in. Uh because I don't like just sitting in a hotel, be bored out of my mind. I'll go journal. Just understand like what is, I've never been here, what, what's there to know, you know, and I kind of just like to explore cities that way. Then I'll do that for a while, you know, most of the day, come back, take a nap,

You know, take like a 15 minute nap. Usually was what not what I give myself is when my body just tells me to do and uh, then I get ready for the shows and then boom, go rock out the shows for the night, meet and greet. I stayed there till the pretty much the last person until I meet the last person that you know was standing in line to meet me and then, uh, so that's the whole weekend meeting man.

It's

tough because yeah, like I, you know, but I found my way to keep the energy that I have on stage and transition that into the meet and greet as well. So that's what makes it better. So that's what helps me get through that. Um, so after the meet and greet, then I go, usually reflect for the evening or whatever. Of course you get fans like, you know, come out and do that. Uh, so I usually go reflect and then, you know, that's pretty much that whole weekend sunday is to travel home day.

I love to travel home on Sundays because um, then I, then I still have a lot of time home, so Sundays is nothing day, Sundays is like whatever, whatever I want to do, whatever I feel like doing day and I give myself that two Sundays and then boom, monday hits and then what's

the most exhausting part of that of everything, you just talked about the meet and greet is the travel.

Honestly, I don't really find myself exhausted

because you've been drinking magic mind. Yeah.

I don't necessarily find myself like exhausted in a way to where I'm just like, I'm drained. No, because I think I have a well balance of, you

know, clocking

in, clocking in, clocking

in do

you? And that's why I never feel so drained. What's

The unexpected to you? 10 years ago or nine years ago. Right? When you're starting, what is the unexpected aspect of that week or that this life that you just didn't kind of see coming or did it wouldn't have thought would be a big aspect

of it Of like in comparison to 10 years ago.

Yeah. Like right when you're getting started or when you moved out to L. A. And like because this is where I would want to be. I imagine you're where if not way above where you wanted to be four

years in. Is

there an aspect that you didn't expect within it?

Honestly, I didn't, I didn't expect to discover all I discovered with the patients. Yeah. I never, I don't think I ever, so that when I think about it now, I don't think I ever really understood the patients until I got here, you know. Um especially especially early on and I think when I was doing comedy early on I was just kind of existing in it and kinda the title is the title of being a comedian. I think that like early on when I was doing comedy it was just like, yeah, I'm a comedian, but I don't think I ever really understood that it was just so easy to say because yeah, that's what I'm doing, it's like, yeah, like anybody, cause I'm an entrepreneur right, but if there's no action behind that

Like eight characters, 25 words on linkedin and you can be

exactly, you know, and I think uh yeah, I just think being able to find clarity things is the biggest thing that, you know that I didn't necessarily think I would have and I didn't think I would find it by not um by doing things outside of comedy is how I found my clarity,

it's, it's funny you mentioned that it brought you clarity of like person that pursuit, there's one of my favorite books is in, in the art of archery. This book from I think is a twenties um and uh this german philosopher moves to Japan to learn about zen and he's told over and over again, he has to have a craft to learn the spiritual practice, he could do flower range, he could do pot making, he could do archery, but he has to have a craft to learn this philosophy and I think one of the things about that's so special and powerful about creating, whether it is gardening,

cooking

a meal doesn't need to be like professional, but creating is you have, you bump into truth over and over again and you learn so much about yourself by being a creator by, by pursuing this craft and it almost relegates the craft seemingly like in parallel, not meaningless, but almost like a less relevant when you go from like why do I need to learn archery to learn zen to then being like holy sh it, I'm learning so much. This other topic that I care actually a lot more about than I uh than I started with this quote unquote

craft. I'm always shocked when I hear a comedian say they don't read, I'm like, how do you know what to talk about or how do you know how to define what you're trying to talk about if you don't read anything Yeah, bryan Callen is one that helped me understand that Yeah, he remember right when I got off stage and he was really thrilled about my set that I did, he was like, remember the question, the question, he asked me that I was like, I never thought of that and he was like, what are you reading? I was like, oh wow, I don't know. And then it just made me take a dive, you know?

Um I was like, okay, I talked about a lot about myself, you know, Ryan holiday, I read ego

is the enemy obstacles

the way and you know, I read those two books and I even read uh um the War of Art,

Stephen

press field, the War of Art, remember the funny, funny story about that book? A friend of mine had gave gave that to me like years ago, he was like, man, read this book, this book is good man, I think you do really uh you know really well off of it. And I had this was he gave it to a buddy in Arizona, he gave it to me and I had it for a long time, I didn't I didn't read that book, I think I had it for like four years before I read it and I read it the day I moved to L. A. Is when I started to read that book and I was like, wow. And that that was a big game changer

for me, just sitting

there just sitting

there. Yeah,

because I was unpacking all my stuff and I was like, oh man, I still have this book, I haven't read it, I was like, you know, it's a short book and I was like, I'll read it and then man, you know, it was, it was beautiful and then uh yeah, that's an amazing book. But those like those type of reeds, um you know, especially a lot of Ryan Holiday's stuff really, that's what helps me keep the strength of self reflection is understanding a lot of that stuff and how do you know, hold on to this grounded foundation that I feel like I have.

Yeah those those books really um really, really helped me out in tremendous ways, just understanding like, oh man, this is just, I don't know, I geek out over looking within. Just geek out over it. Yeah,

between that observation, the reflection, I

can't tell you about kim Kardashian and all that. I can't tell you anything about that. I don't know anything about that. I don't know anything about like, a lot of movies, I don't know anything about a lot of stuff like when people will be like, have you seen this woman? I don't know. I've never seen anything like, oh my God, you know, I've seen that. I go, yeah, I listen, all right. I find my things that I like to look at and those sort of things like,

I don't have any hot takes on pop culture. I don't have any because I don't know, it holds no value to me. It lacks substance to me. Whereas, like, the self reflection holds a lot of substance and I just hold on it, hold onto it so strongly because it's all the substance that it does have, you know, so things that lack substance I just don't really care for.

Well, in a conversation where we where we touch on what got you here, won't get you there. It's somewhere along the line along the line, you must have picked up on that between the the extreme The, the observance, see that you're paying attention to what I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna spend 30 days of observing YouTube and comedy to obviously like continuing to the reflection to the focus on this is the craft. I'm going to get good at not the superfluous stuff that I'm not going to network my way into something. I don't deserve the patients, the at least the appreciation of that patients. That is, I think you, it's very clear in talking with you that you have many of those things that are going to take you there. However, that, that there is is for you is pretty remarkable to hear such a mature polish. Most founders don't have this much, this much polish around their, their craft.

I don't think I've ever heard that before.

I've invested maybe 150 companies and most founders do not have this type of, this type of polishing that only comes from looking in the mirror.

Like man, like I said, I used to

be crazy. We all should, if we are not all saying that, then we're the idiots walking around timing. I look good. I bet

I look good, not

looking in the mirror.

Yeah.

And saying, yeah,

I've watched a ton of friends, you know, just in life and you know, I'm not judging them, you know, uh, I think they'll find it when they find it. But I've watched so many friends just kinda live in this, um false reality a lot. And I go, man, this guy was once there. The false reality. Like I said, like I said, I didn't really have clarity on life until it took my brother passing away to understand like, oh my God,

what? This is life, You know what I mean? Like it sucks that it happened that way, but I've learned to find the acceptance as one should, you'll see better results from it. But um you know, I, like I said, I just want to hold onto it, and that's one thing I don't ever want to let go and you know? Yes, I remember my friend was telling me a story, um she's a comedian as well, and she was just talking about how much she admires my approach to the way I do, you know,

go through comedy, and she was like, yeah, another friend of ours, mutual friend was like, if you're not doing

this 20

47, you're you're not, you're not, you're not, you don't care for it. And that

that's

that's frightening to a person. That that puts a lot of stress and anxiety on a person because when they feel like they want to go to a friend's wedding or they want to go surprise their mom for their birthday, they feel like they can't do it because it's like, it has nothing to do with the thing that they want that they want to do. Like that, that's that's a scary thing to me. That's terrifying to be, to not be able to, you know, I have to focus on it that hard. There's

not, there's not an athletic endeavor. It's a great kind of like uh perspective of mastery in the world. That would be like, don't

rest, just

you want to run marathons

chapel.

Don't stop running, man, Never

use a bowl, sat down for a couple of

seconds. Exactly, exactly. Like its exact dude, the best athletes, many of them like uh I know one of the best quarterbacks in the, in the league right now and I know for six months it's eating, it's doing some habitual things, very key, but so much chill time, so much

chill time.

And it's, you know, sports are, are great because you actually have like the system of seeing how you are compared to others. And obviously a lot of that is talent, but uh he's, it's not and it's usually like a front when an athlete makes it seem like they're

doing it when I think of when I think of a person like tom brady and why he's been able to do the things he's been able to do and exist the way he's able to exist. I do believe he works his ass off. But I also think that a person of that nature, there's a lot of self reflection. There's a lot of, there's a lot of self reflection on his end to be able to understand and move the way he moves. Like uh I'm not, I'm not well known in the football world,

like facebook show was him getting massages like. Yeah, that's what

I'm saying like. Yeah, it's like, oh, I want to get a massage. But one of the things that I noticed that was more intriguing to me is that, You know, he basically took a pay cut from his team, from the team that he was on so he could build the team that he wants to build. And the only way he was able to do that is if he took a pay cut, that's impressive to me for a guy that's got was he got 16. I don't know how many rings

he's got seven

rings for

for a person

to be able to understand that there's some, there's self reflection. That's why I said he, oh, he self reflects to be able to go on the best quarterback in the league

history

maybe. Oh, and and I'm worth this much to the NFL. Well, all right, well let me take a pay cut in the NFL so I can build a team I want so I can bring home another championship

and then make it up in sponsorships in

a way that he wouldn't Exactly, but like, but like that that's a you have to reflect it or he could just being greedy even like I want all the money even including my sponsors, but he probably took a step back to go, alright, I'm making money here here here and here I can take a pay cut here

and get what I really

want. You see what I'm saying to be able to do that, that's that's a person that has looked within to be able to understand

that,

you know? And you just hear the way he talks like, I mean there's a clip of him talking about like his father him crying about it and I'm like man, that's to be able to understand that and have like that knowledge of understanding what your father has done to you and made in the way he's how happy he's made him and what he feels. Yeah, that's that's that's from looking within, I like those, that's those are the things that I'm intrigued by with people that are really successful. Yeah.

In fact, one of the most impressive things of the, of the ceo of Airbnb where sold our last company there and and it was, it was actually, and I've known brian for a while, but perhaps the most impressive thing about him was like, man, this guy can absorb so much critical negative feedback and just crave it and then reflected back to the to the leadership team of like, man, I'm not good at this and it's very clear, I'm getting this feedback, I appreciate the feedback and then to the company, wow X percent of you all don't feel like you you see yourselves here at Airbnb in a year out from the outside. It looks like they're doing everything right, $30 billion company from the inside, there is no glossing over his absorption digestion of, of what the feedback was and I was like ship,

this is five times better than I'm capable of doing to the tom brady analog. It's like the part that you will never see as a spectator, but being next to a leader like that. Yeah, it's, it's like, wow, that's this is world, this is maybe the most world class thing they're great at is holy hell, they're able to, I remember uh, tom brady after one of the super bowls at Tampa Bay, so he's won seven or eight at this point, right after he, the day after he calls up um the coach saying, hey, this is what I think we can like you reflecting after a set, this is what I think we can work on for next year. Like that's crazy amounts of self reflection. It is,

I mean, even when he was a super bowl Atlanta falcons and Atlanta was like destroying them. And meanwhile there was just like, again, this level of clarity that

tom brady had had

of like, oh, we still got this, that's crazy and then they win the super bowl, they win, they win the damn game. But to be able to understand that with the amount of time that you have. Like I'm saying like that, that's a, that's a level of understanding of something within, and he probably looked at it, I'm not, I can't really define what he did, but from from an outsider's view, I would assume that he probably thought like, you know, I can't let these guys get down.

I'm the leader of this team and I got to let them know we still got a chance and if I let them know that we still got a chance, because these guys look at me, then they're gonna, we're gonna get there and I would like to believe that that's what it was and and and but just based off if I would just take a whack at it, I would assume that it was

that and probably all these other areas of reflection where he knew, okay, this is the weak point on the team that I like. It's almost like not just trust in himself for the confidence in the team, but also I'm so good at at that the note taking the reflection that I know that we have this chance within our strategy and just hasn't and it's all of these things coming together, but deep reflection across like seven different fronts coming

together for that clarity. I think, I think like those. Yeah, exactly. Those are the things that I'm more impressed by. Yeah, he's got a lot of championships and I get that, but I go, what did he do to get all those championships? How did he get all those championships? What was his thought process? I'm curious of that. I know, I know there's skill to the game, but there's also more there's more to it because there's a lot of the really good people that don't have any championships. You know,

there's a lot of people, there's a lot of people with talent. I was a talented cheerleader, but just had crazy anger issues, you know, like that didn't help me do anything. I had the talent I could get good at. I got good at cheerleading, but that doesn't mean, you know that I could lead a team to victory.

Yeah, yeah,

yeah, I can. Maybe I should run it back.

Yeah, exactly. Chappelle 2.0, I'm coming back Athens get ready where chappelle? I've loved this conversation so much. Thank you for the generosity of of wisdom and insight. Where can people find out more about

you online? I mean, I hate running social media. I just hired a guy to do it. But I I'm on my instagram a little bit more, but chappelle at chappelle a C. On instagram. I don't do twitter because I don't really put my thoughts out there like

that until must cleans it up. It's all

about Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just like, I'm not doing. I'm not getting on there.

Well, thank you so much, man. I really

appreciate this conversation. Go

check him out is hilarious stand up as well as two great podcast. Your own podcast Cats after dark where we got to know each other from Magic Mind. And yes, is uh, is there are many places for people to go check out after this episode.

Thank you. Thank

you. But But.