were you outlined all of the things that could go wrong. It would not be rational position to start up money transmission business, so I didn't. I just jumped into started doing stuff and figuring out how to, like, block and tackle and plow through walls, and we eventually we're lucky enough to plow through. But it took something like, I don't know, willful ignorance is the right term, but it took jumping in and just doing it, as opposed to looking at all the risks and weighing

the decision. Hey, it's Adam Schoenfeld. Welcome back to the built in Seattle podcasts, where I chat with Seattle's top entrepreneurs, investors and business leaders about how they think how they operate. On this episode, I talked with Matt often Eimer. He's the CEO at Remit Lee. Lots of great headlines. Nine years out of techstars Seattle nearly a $1,000,000,000 valuation over 1000 employees, two million customers and over 300 million and equity raised. Matt went behind the scenes on his amazing story with Remit Lee, the road less traveled from business school to Kenya to finding a customer problem. His irrational decision to start room Italy that worked out well, how he differentiates, how he's pivoted and how he's leading during the Cove in 19 Crisis.

I'm sitting here with the one the only Matt Oppenheimer came at. Thanks for being here. And Adam, how's it going? It's going well and we're doing this through zoom in social distancing mode. I'm sorry that we weren't able to meet in person a couple weeks ago when we originally had this schedule of

Yeah, I look forward to seeing you once we get through all this.

Likewise, I've been a big fan of yours since the early days of ERM, Italy, when we were both working in the Techstars office. It's been incredible to watch the growth that you've had, so I'm really excited to catch up with been looking forward

to this interview. Likewise, you have a lot of fun memories from being back in that office, so we'll have to laugh about those here in a little bit.

Well, you always seemed steady at the wheel back then, like you knew where you were heading, and in some ways I'm not surprised with the success you've had. But in some ways it's just remarkable how far it's come quickly. Can you give just the quick stats on where you are as a business and whatever way you like to describe it?

Yeah, sure. So remit Lee's vision is to transform the lives of immigrants and their families by providing the most trusted financial services on the planet. Remittances were the main thing that we dio, but we just launched our second product, which is, Ah, bank accounts specifically designed for immigrants, which we heard from our customers is a huge pain point and big opportunity to improve their lives. So if you look at those two products, the Remittance business is the one that's been around nine plus years. We have served over two million customers. We've raised over 300 million in equity. We have over 1000 people worldwide, and we're growing very rapidly even in this environment. On then. Passbook is relatively early days, but we launched that earlier this year and you're seeing amazing customer interest in it. So expect big things from that. The months and years to come.

Well, it's just crazy that amount of capital that you've brought in and the trajectory how old is the business? What year was it found it

was May of 2011 is when I left Barclays Bank and Kenya and started the company. So coming up on nine years?

Well, Justin, overnight success in nine years. I had going coming on the show several weeks ago, and I think he was about 14 or 15 years in. So I think it takes that much

time, doesn't it? Yeah, he was a mentor, actually, in Techstars in that old office we were just talking about, I still remember, like looking at him with, like on admiration. I still dio, but, you know, he was five or six years ahead and had built, you know, large business, and obviously that's groomed since then. But I've learned a lot of a lot of lessons from Glenn.

And one of them, as you just said, is businesses are not built overnight and even the most successful businesses out there. I think there's a this perception that there's some ah ha idea and it's all of a sudden this hockey stick growth and it all happens in days or weeks or months, and it is definitely years and a lot of hard work and pivots and other things along the way. So we've been lucky that over the last nine years built a business that serves a lot of customers. At this point,

I know a little bit about your history. One thing I admire about you is that you made a lot of seemingly unconventional decisions along the way. And my proof of this is that I heard you had an epic handlebar mustache when you were at Harvard Business School. Is that true?

Yeah, I don't know if unconventional decision or just bad decision, but yeah, that was fun. In my first year of business school, I don't know why I did this. It's not like I lost a bet. I think I actually thought it looked good a ton, but I had a handlebar mustache in Boston, Massachusetts, at Harvard Business School for part of my a significant part of my first year, and it was a lot of fun,

and were you known for that that had to be quite unique in that group of people.

Well, it's funny we did this exercise our first year, where you get really close with your section of 90 people that I was just going back and reading that and that we do this exercise where it's like, People say what? What do you admire about this person? And you know, most people are like, I love how compassionate you are, You know? You are. You always have great insect bites. And Mike solid 2/3 of the comments about me were amazing. Handlebar mustache. I'm from Idaho. So there was a comment or two on nobody like represents his state heritage better. And nobody. It was 2/3 about my handlebar mustache. So I think it was memorable. Which, which

is getting left a mark for share. Yeah. So I love looking at your history, cause you went from Harvard Business School and on this path, and I know there were steps in between, but you ended up at Barclays Kenya, you know? Not McKinsey. Not Goldman Sachs. Not even Amazon, Right? What led you down

that? Yeah, I think that was the road less traveled. Certainly I think that a lot of folks like you said, take investment banking, consulting or, you know, large tech jobs coming out of school. And for me, I've always been interested in people have always been interested in management also interested not to membership. But I didn't have an idea. Come on, we gotta business school that I wanted to, you know, really dedicate 10 at least 10 pleasures my life too. So Barclays was a unique opportunity cause it was in the corporate and retail bank, which is all about large scale people management.

And I like that it was international, which was the second thing I was looking for. I traveled to close to 100 countries because of Mark. I've lived and worked on three different continents. I started with them in London and then I really joined them because I've always been drawn to Africa and I have done trips there previously, some volunteer work. And so after my first year, Barclays in London and the corporate bank, I moved to Kenya and ran mobile Internet banking initiatives for Barclays Bank Kenya. And that's really why I joined Barclays is because not only London, Kenya, such unique opportunity and because it was a lot of, you know, just exposure to what it means to manage a large business in terms of not only size of revenue and profits, but also just, you know, Corbyn until they have a lot of people and I learned from a lot of really talented good managers there.

What was the appeal to Africa specifically?

Yeah, it's a good question. I think that it's extremely different. In some ways. There's a humanity about everyone I've met across so many cultures that are actually very similar. But in a lot of ways it's very different and I'm drawn the difference of drone to getting to know people that are very different than me. I think a lot of people are drawn to similarities and I really enjoy learning from people that are very different for me and other different perspective on life. And so I think that's part of it. And after living there I learned so many lessons on life from a lot of my Kenyan friends. The nature is unbelievable and gorgeous like, you know, safaris and all that like nothing I've ever seen and I went on surprise when I lived there in my life, like Toyota Corolla, there's not fancy safaris and then when I say difference, I think that it's also just the people. There are just unbelievable, unbelievable and I'm talking Africa have for gives a big place. I'm talking about Kenya specifically which where where I traveled and, ah, where we're back and lived, but so grateful for the people I met in everything they taught me.

Are there any values and principles that you brought to Rome, Italy, that came from those people that you met in Kenya and the kind of unique traits that you found in the community there,

Yeah, one comes to mind, which is, you know, I think that there's a tendency, I think, at times and fast paced cultures. This is somewhat in the US and also just the cultures and in places that I run into life jump into the topic at hand into work into business. And what I learned very, very quickly in Kenya is if you walk into a meeting and you're like right here is the agenda here is we're gonna be doing Let's go have some would say like that. But I think there is that tendency in a lot of corporate America. You just wouldn't get taken seriously. You wouldn't get anything done. And so I really slowed down at the beginning of a lot. I still slow down at the beginning of a lot of Phoenix. Just a really genuinely check in. How's your family?

How's life? And I do that not only because it results in a more productive meeting or it resulted in Kenya in a more productive meeting, but more importantly, it's just like a way more interesting way to live life to connect with people. And it was most start when I went from Kenya back to London and I was in the process of leaving Barclays. But I wouldnt caught up with a few colleagues and I jumped in to ask about that person's family, as opposed to jumping right in. And what I realized at that moment cause I just come back from Kenya was kind of like then habit is that I had never asked this guy how his family was doing. It was almost like, awkward because it was like, this change in the paradigm of our relationship. And so anyway, that's one very tactical. It's like slowing down, getting to know people at a very genuine level. Checking in at the beginning of meetings and taking, you know, more personal approach is something I certainly learned from a Kenyan colleagues.

So people still see that today It remotely when they're in meetings with you. You checking in and sort of putting that person as a priority before kind of getting down to the agenda.

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

There you go. So this this unconventional road, you went to Kenya, and and I know that had a big influence on, you know, ultimately, what you did with Hermit Lee, How did that kind of earn secret Come out of your time in Kenyan and lead to the insight for remotely?

Yeah. Well, first, the road less traveled was because I've had great mentors. And I remember when I was at Barclays in London, I talked to one of my men tourists. This got Mark Solan, who was one of the leaders of techstars globally. Just great cabinets from Boise, Idaho. And so I've known him forever. I was debating between working my way up in the corporate bank versus going to Kenya, and most of my peers were like, Why would you leave the mothership of one Churchill place at Barclays? Like, how are you gonna build a creator? How are you gonna get promoted?

How are you gonna interact with all the bigwigs, that mothership, and I'm so glad I had people like Mark to be, like, take the road less traveled, like Go and I think we're doing that did for me in terms of taking the road less traveled, is it exposed me? Teoh? Ah, different problems, different challenges, different innovations and the specific pain point I saw and Kenya was that a lot of my Kenyan friends who had relatives in Europe or North America relied on then for money for their basic living expenses and have really strange ways of getting that money like one of my friends had, like her sister's Bank of American Debit card. And I was just like, What happens if you lose that? There's obviously compliance concerns,

but like more so for that for her, like the costs, the inconvenience, the uncertainty. And so I remember vividly examples like that ends in Kenya. There was a mobile wallet is a mobile called Pacer that really has transformed domestic financial services. So it's kinda like now seems like time toe actually apply that kind of shift to mobile and shift to digital to Remittances and improve people like Fiona and Fiona sisters lives in terms of getting getting money. Back then was the friend that I did? I mention that had her sister's debit card.

So when you saw those situations, like what you saw with Fiona, did you start systematically interviewing people? Or was it just something you kind of got by us? Most is being there and seeing the different ways that people moved money around to family kind of internationally.

Yeah, knows. Mainly, I didn't really do a lot of late deep customer development. Nor did I even realize at the time that Fiona obviously is not the customer like Fiona sisters, the customer. And so I was pretty far from the customer At that point. I just knew that there was a pain point that it seemed like the right opportunity to come to south.

What was it about that that you saw that kind of let that up for you versus you know, any other problem that you could observe in the world? What was What was it about that pain point that really became interesting to you?

Two things. One and most importantly, it was super meaningful. And I don't think nine years in if it were. If we were a business making widgets, I'd have a hard time continuing to stay motivated. It's so motivating, and it's especially motivating right now in the middle of 19 because our service is always essential. But if there is a recession happening, Remittances could be the difference between having food on the table or not. For our customers recipients, it could be the difference between having emergency medical they're not, and so that by far seeing how far that money went and the meaning is the primary. And then the second is. I wanted it to be a big problem, and I wanted it to be a big problem that had scaled solutions, which usually takes technology. I think people jump too much to wanting to start a quote tech company, but I liked that it was a beautiful problem, like it's a big problem, and I like that there were technical solutions to able to solve it because that was away at a global impact.

I'm very interested in this question that entrepreneurs have of like, Do I want to swing for the fences or do I want to build something small or where on that spectrum Do I want to live? And you've seemed like since the early days you were very clear, Like I wanted to go after a big problem. You mentioned, you know, am I willing to spend 10 years on this? How big is the opportunity? What drove you to think in that way at such an early stage in the business?

When I started a business, I was in my late twenties. I was not married. I had no kids I and started upset, especially because I mean throughout the whole journey, but especially the beginning where, like you are the only resource, basically, and the amount of time and energy and commitment it takes is enormous. And so I knew that at that point one I was I could take more risk because I, you know, I lived like when I moved back from Kenya, I moved to Boise, Idaho, where I grew up, and I lived in the basement of a buddy of mine that I went to preschool with, like my personal expenses were so low,

and I also knew that I could dedicate 100% of the time when I then did Techstars. I remember I lived in Fremont, and I and I moved real upgrade from my buddies guest room that I would priest with to my cousin's couch and his cat, George. I loved that cat, and all I would do is I would like work work out. Have time, food, three great type places and free mind, by the way, and since this is a built in Seattle pop guest of anybody, everyone's talking about type food and cream on a rating system for all the type places I like never cooked a meal. I was just wholly dedicated to building this, and I don't celebrate the fact that, like I put in a lot of hours because that is not something to celebrate. But I do think it's important to recognize that early stage start ups are taxing and grueling and take a huge amount of time.

And I had that that point my life. So those were some of the factors at that point that I was just intentional. But I don't think that a venture backed like swing for the fences start up is for everybody at every point in their life, and I think that it's important to be intentional all businesses to take times, but certainly like venture back tech start ups like they're just time. And I was obviously not earning a paycheck. So being able to spend less at that point, my life is also valuable.

That's awesome. Yeah, the the friends basement to the to the couch is not the biggest upgrade I've ever heard of.

It doesn't. My cousin was very nice. Tell me Sanders captures where next?

I'm curious. In those early days when you were teaching people about this opportunity in this vision that you had what was kind of like the why now, story that you had, right? And how did you take that insight that you got from being in Kenya and being in banking and articulate out to investors and employees and early on getting people to to see what you saw?

I think that certainly the in pizza perspective and living in Kenya, I think, provided a level of credibility and unique like why now? Because I had seen that there, which was, I think got investors attention because they were. This is a different kind of perspective on things, So I think that was a big part of it and really is why we've been able to grow over the last nine years because there is a shift. Digital people are trusting digital two devices for financial services, which has not been the case for a lot of years, and I think that I think that was a big part of it. But here's the I had no idea about anything Remittance related when I started the business. I think that had I known all the complexity that is required to build a money transmitter, I don't know if I would like it's not a rational decision to start a money transmission business. It it's so incredibly complex. And were you outlined all of the things that could go round or all the real inject stall? It would not be a rational position to start up money transmission business,

So I didn't I just jumped into started doing stuff and figuring out how to like, block and tackle and plow through walls, and we eventually we're lucky enough to plow through. But it's it took something like, I don't know, willful ignorance is the right term, but it took jumping in and just doing it as opposed to looking at all the risks and weighing the decision.

That's interesting. So you have enough domain knowledge to gonna find the problem and fuel confident to go address it, but not not enough to be dissuaded from attacking this like, massively complex market.

Exactly. Exactly.

How did you come to terms with, like, Western Union, this company that's been around since the 18 fifties? I think, and they're doing, you know, five or six billion revenue. And I as I understand that's kind of who you were disrupting. Did people say nobody's beat these guys in the last 150 years? Why are you going to do it? And what was your thinking on that?

Yeah, I think you know the first thing about money transmission is that it's super fragmented, like Western Union has. It's such a huge market that, you know, 600 plus 1,000,000,000 ascent every year. Western Union has 17 +17% market share money of US 5% and so I never really felt like I mean that in the aggregate level they are the ones t beat in the sense that customers were gonna be much better off with digital solution but I never viewed them is like the £800 gorilla that we had to crush. I viewed more is like a huge market. And how can we get customers to help us? Certainly. Along the road there have been folks from what I'll just say, our legacy players I'm not gonna name out, like if it was Western Union MoneyGram, whoever if it was executives or former executives from those places. But the idea of like pitching and transforming Remittances with the digital solution is not anyone. And so I think they often times were like jaded. And it was like,

Oh, cute and like you, you don't have any idea about all these barriers and you're gonna be shut down in three months because you won't be able to get through the mall and then you're gonna come back looking bridge. And that did fuel me because I just thought it was arrogant and annoying. And so that was the biggest association I have was the arrogance and complacency both because I found it personally offensive and because I felt like custom summers with the ones that were losing. By that arrogance and complacency, which rid of opportunity.

Such a great sort of guide, Teoh, find opportunity is well, right. Like if you can, if you can find that sweet spot where the customer isn't benefiting and the industry is kind of ignoring it. How did you know when you had locked into that kind of right area? Like, what were the clues or signals that you were getting back then? That told you, despite what people were saying, that this was the right thing to go attack.

It was interesting when we first started, we made a few early pivots and there was a techstars mentor that actually said it in a crass way that's still stuck with me. And I wish I could remember the texture of mentor his name because he would get credit for it. But he said, Find something that pisses you off, and it could be fined a huge opportunity. Nobody solved. But I think that I did find some piss mouth that pissed me off how expensive it is, how inconvenient it is and how scary it is for immigrants to send money back to their home country. And these are folks who have traditionally been underserved, who make huge sacrifices to leave their families. And then after they make that sacrifice and they make that sacrifice to support their families back home. We're talking about your parents, your kids, your siblings, like close family members. You left I haven't seen in years,

often times for the center of that. Me being the Remittance to be in communion, expensive etcetera pissed me off. And so the early days I didn't zone in on. Here's the solution as much, and that's where that wisdom is. It's find something that pisses you off. It's not like find a product. That solution you love sounds obvious, but I think a lot of entrepreneurs get that wrong. And so that did stick with me because that shifted my immune textures. And so the original solution was Let's create like the kayak for Remittances, um, and build a search engine just to provide more transparency on pricing. And then I don't have to go and build like all of the regulatory fraud, prevention,

security, all the different barriers. But pre product or just as I was starting to build products, I talked with much of businesses who just failed in that space. There was no business model. So then we pivoted to being the money transmitter again without knowing full context of how difficult it would be. But it was like, Well, that's the next place to go solve this problem. It pisses me off. And it took a little while to get really product market fit, because when we pivoted, when we said, Well, let's send money to mobile wallets because my wallets were huge in Kenya and so is mobile to mobile, and it sounded good,

But when we expand, it will not even expanded. When we sent money to the Philippines, which is our first market out of 100,000 transactions, once we actually did get scale, we partnered with the mobile wallet to start started asking people to buy the product would go like we only had a wash. Washington State money transmission license would go to like South Center Mall, and we rented the kiosk in front of one of the old school money transmitters in that in the mall right out front of Seafood City, and we'd asked customers to use it and send money to this mobile wallet, and nobody did. And so now, as I was saying, Out of 100,000 transactions like 2020 transactions out of 100,000 go to this mobile wallet. So we had what we had to broaden our range of dispersement options to cash pick up Teoh Instant bank deposits to of you know, all different types of dispersement. Not that really varies by country,

but going back to your question of like when we knew we were onto something, we have to pivot again to be broader than just mobile wallets and have a broad range of dispersement networks. And from when we started the business toe when we pivoted and started, getting some traction is probably a year, year and 1/2. And then I think that once we started marketing a product that really resonated with customers, we started toe get some scale and it felt like something was there.

Can you tell me about those conversations that happened at South Center Mall because I was loved that story? And did you get validation about people's pain? And were they saying this pisses me off, too, despite the fact that they were telling you clearly they didn't want to go to the mobile wallet.

Our goal was not to get a bunch of customers at that point. Our goal was to you learn from customers and they worked. They weren't buying our product, but we didn't know why. And then it really took. I'll look this partnership and getting folks to feel comfortable and didn't feel like have them feel like they were insulting me by saying my product sect, but really understand why they weren't using it. And that's what let us to broaden the range of dispersement networks. All the broadening. The range of dispersement networks led to a whole another challenge that I could talk about it. It's helpful, but it was a critical next pivot step to build rebuilt today.

You've struck me as very mission driven in the business. But what is that specifically that it's helping have an impact on people's lives?

Yeah, I think that it's become even more meaningful over the last nine years because I think it's a tough time to be an immigrant, which are Most of our customers are first generation inference in the United States and Europe in other places, and when I started the business I would have said that you know, the value. That and the mission of what we're doing is about saving our customers money about getting their money home faster, and that is certainly still part of it. A few dollars in savings goes an incredibly long way to our customer base, and that's a key part of the mission. But what I've learned since building the business is because it's so complex. Even the legacy of money transmitters I don't think have ill intent, but they treat a lot of their good customers like criminals is they're trying to get there, right compliance and proud system set up. That may not be a sophisticated and more importantly, culturally, they don't treat their customers like the heroes that they are, and they don't give them the amount of respect that they deserve.

And I think that to give immigrants right now the peace of mind that their money is gonna make it home with a company that's gonna support them while they're in a new country in a new place in a period in time where they may be even more fearful or disrespected, I think, is what it's all about, and as part of that it is about saving the money about speeding up the process. But it's rooted in the peace of mind and support that we can give them because they're working so incredibly hard to support their families back home. And that's the heart of why they've made this sacrifice to be in a new, different and often times scary place. So supporting them is ultimately what it's all about.

Yeah, I had Sorry to kiss on The podcast a couple weeks ago is, Well, it was a different, completely different kind of business but also serving immigrants. And she said that she's been getting all kinds of, you know, questions and email from the community. As this crisis with Kobe 19 has ramped up, and they're just been kind of this huge influx of need for help. How is that showing up in in your business and and how are you changing to respond to that now?

The first way of showing up is that it's remarkable that 70 plus percent of Remittances are sent from physical cacs locations like a Western union or MoneyGram location that you think of, and the reason that is is because that number is growing really rapidly. as it shifted mill on, and it was steadily growing. But payments are sticky, their thing of habit. And if you're again our customer shoes and you know the local you know person who runs that agency and you're sending 300 bucks your hard earned money and you make 20 or $30,000 a year. And for compliance reasons, any money transmitter has to collect personal information about you. And then you're giving them your money and trusting it will be delivered oftentimes in catch thousands of miles away at home like this is where I say it doesn't just come at a price because it's not logical to save two bucks if you have any fear of your personal information being stolen or that money being taken from you. So it's a sticky thing, and what's happening right now is that is two things. One. Customers either don't feel safe or can't go to a physical location because they're closed and to money is more important than ever. As I mentioned, to get back home to our customers loved ones. And so you see digital players like us growing really rapidly in terms of new customers.

If you look at our February and March numbers are new. Customer growth from February to March grew by 100% month on month, which for our Scallon size is a very, very big gun. And that's continued into April. And if you look at our existing base, also from Collaborator March, our volumes increased by 40%. I'm concerned about our customers ability to continue to be employed, and so I think the medium term. There's a bit more of a question around that. But that's something we're monitoring closely. And it's something that if you look at previous recessions, Remittance has been remarkably resilient because it is so important for our customers to get money home when there's a global crisis. Because, as I mentioned goes so far back home,

and but this this recession, I think we'll have higher unemployment already. Seeing that and so I think our customers will be affected will be their support him and I think they'll continue to make it a priority compared to a lot of other businesses and industries, other things were going to support them is yeah, we're just trying to figure out how to, you know, keep our team safe. Stop the spread of coded and keep especially our customer service levels to levels that are adequate. And there was a period that air where we were short staffed on the customer service side. So are wait. Times were longer, but we've now largely gotten folks to be able to work from home and and or stay safe. And so we're getting those wait times back there back now to a place that's better. But it's been, you know, I've been inspired by the Remit Lee team on how much they've rallied to serve our customers right now,

because it's been a trying time for the remotely team. It's been a exception crying time for our customers, and they will continue to be for a while and we've got to manage through it. But again, when there's meaning in the work, it makes it way it fuels you. I think, to a level that is at least what I've seen from the team so inspiring.

How are you messaging to the team to bring that meaning front and center in their work, especially at a time right when everybody has their own personal challenges, whether it's a kid running around. Or maybe they have a family member who's been sick. I'm curious you as the leader and your leadership team. What does it actually look like to, you know, keep the team focused on the right things for your customers during this crazy time of uncertainty in all our lives?

I think first the team has to know that we care about their well being, both physically and mentally. And so I was talking really about some of the lessons I learned from my Kenyan colleagues. But those air especially applicable now, and I think the team knows how much we care and are looking out for their well being doing what's right by them. And I think that's such a case by case saying, in terms of whether people have kids that they need to take care of in any sort of adjustments that need to be made to their lives, to make that happen and be able to work. I think there's different challenge. If somebody is alone and loneliness that comes with that, I get a different challenge. Folks had, you know, mental health challenges and how this might make those were worse. And so there's no one size fit, all but I think that's where culture matters, where managers across the entire company really man matter,

to be leaning in and and on a case by case basis, connecting with her team and understand where they're at. And then you know, the mission part is what in the midst of this, I think, has brought in a lot of meaning to people. I had one person who has been in the Seattle office because our Nicaragua, Philippine, Mumbai and Columbia customer sports sites were limited capacity for a while, isn't mentioned our Seattle teams and pitching in directly with a lot of customer service, and I have one team members say, You know, serving customers right now has been what's gotten me through this because it's provided so much meaning and so much in a tangible way that I can actually help people. So I think that people are looking for meaning right now, looking for ways to help as long as they're taking care of. And there's a balance that you can't ask too much from people right now, especially people in some of those scenarios that I mentioned. But to the extent people have capacity. I think they want help right now. And I think that our job gives them the ability to do that.

I'm curious if there's things that you're doing now in the business, either as a result of Cove it or just in general that that won't scale but are important because I imagine just being, you know, at the size that you are in with the amount of capital you raise the board meeting conversations are a lot about scalability and thinking of a long term. Are there any things that you've had to come back to you now that I have are akin to going to the South Center mall or things that that really probably won't scale but are important to you? Focus on it this time,

for sure? Yeah, and specifically it is the like, all hands on deck, everybody including myself, doing customer support directly. And that does remind me of the early days where you know, we didn't have a customer sports staff and dedicated customer support staff for a long while. And we didn't we all we're on call like not quite 24 7 but pretty close and we put engineers and product managers and others like directly managing customer issues like they are. They have a deeper empathy. And then you just go and fix things because they have the skills to do that, especially when most customer contacts or some sort of product defects. So I've seen us drive a lot more customer empathy right now with people jumping back to kind of that early day mentality of, like handling direct customer support. It's not scalable because, like we've got, you know, senior leaders, to engineers to prop managers where it's not their data to do that. But it will make them better their day job coming out of this.

So you've actually had to put your hands on some support tickets in the recent in recent weeks?

Oh, yeah, for sure, I actually it is painful with customer issues, but I have a lot of meaning that comes from that, and customers reached out to me on all sorts of channels that I respond to you. So, yeah, definitely been been helping customers directly, which is super meaningful.

That's awesome. I'd like to kind of wrap up with the supersonic six, which is the rapid fire round Ah, nod to our former N b. A team that I missed deeply. So Number one is who are some role models or a role model company or person in Seattle that that you're following now, especially as you're in this kind of elite class of companies that have gotten into the $1,000,000,000 ballpark. Who do you look at? The next level that you're learning from our studying

never becomes mind. Is Satya Nadella, CEO of Microsoft? I think he is an empathetic leader. I think he has shifted an organization that has been around for a long time to instil continuous learning, a growth mindset which he talked about a lot. I think he cares deeply about his team, and the results have been amazing in terms of what he's produced. But I think what I'm more inspired by is how he's produced those results, and any time I've met the guy and got to know him a little bit, whatever the privilege of doing you, just really what you see is what you get. Here's a great human. So Satya

what a gift that you've gotten to spend time with him and learn from him. Number two who's an up and coming company or person in Seattle or the Pacific Northwest that you're supporting right now or following

Good question. Person Coming to mind right now is Mona Acma, who's the founder c of Falcon Ai. And she's super early stage. He did around recently with Greylock, which is obviously a really great investor with Trilogy is one of our investors and also great investor. I think that she is just a very smart riel divers, awesome person that every time that doctor I learned as much as anything I share, so she's in super early stages. That's definitely somebody toe keep an eye on because I think she's gonna be up to some great things.

Awesome. I'll put a link to her profile in the show notes, and everybody can check her out. Number three. What's one thing that Seattle needs to improve as a startup hub?

No, it's changed. I think usedto have not, as a Mexican community like nine years ago was really techstars, and he's got a great community of entrepreneurs Now. Things got amazing, amazing talent, both of the big hubs as well as now the spin off. I think it's probably I think it's probably capital. I think that it still pales. Amount of capital here still pales in comparison to the Bay Area in New York, some of the other start up hubs. So I would say it sounds very tactical, but I think capital is the lifeblood of companies, and I think that it's harder to raise capital from investors. Is not in the same city, is here. There are a lot of studies that show that. So I'm gonna go with capital

number four. If you could go back to the beginning, would you still found your company in Seattle?

Definitely. It was. Ah, it was a contrarian decision in 2011 because Amazon was tiny, comparatively back then I got questioned all the time. Like why you in Seattle? Not various more outs and get open? Amazing. It's the things I just mentioned community, the talent, The lifestyle is amazing. I love seeing also do that again in a heartbeat, and I pixie out I was in Boise. Obviously, I was gonna build this business in Boise as much as I would have loved to Is the first time entrepreneur that would have been too hard but I want to be on the West Coast. I just got back from Kenya. I was debating between Seattle and San Francisco and like,

thank God I picked Seattle And it's also just way more in my alley in terms of culture barriers, little too over the top for me. I would have gotten tired of going to like dinner parties and talking about who's investors in what valuation like there's a little of that here. But it's way toned down from the Bay Area, and not just more my speed and style. So absolutely

well, I'm certainly glad you decided. Teoh Do it here. Number five. What's a book that's had an impact on you recently? That you would recommend others

The Hard Thing about Heart Things by Ben Horowitz. Others might have mentioned that's a little bit cliche, but it is just a priceless book, and the reason I love that book is because it's a it's a collection, reads the book, but it also is just fundamentally a collection of his blog's. And so, for early stage and kind of middle stood entrepreneurs, you can just pull up the chapter that's applicable, and it's like such tangible, helpful, great advice.

I love it. I mean, the wartime peacetime CEO models certainly applies right now, as we're looking at the endemic Yeah, number six. What asked, do you have for this audience, or what in this community do to help you?

How to help me? I don't have any asks for me, although there are plenty of that. There's plenty that I need help with. I think that ISS, I think what's more important is right now. There are a lot of people that are suffering because of Covered 19 and it's hard to know how to help it times and some of us aren't in a position to help because we're struggling with their own challenges. But for those that are able to help our community right now, I think that whether it's giving, there's amazing outpouring for, like organizations like all in Seattle. And there's a list of organizations that is a good, vetted short list of organizations that folks could help. That's that's one. There's advocacy and things that you know folks could do on that front. There is remote, you know,

volunteering. But there's also just reaching out to a friend that might be lonely. There's thanking somebody who's on the front lines, checking in with them. I'm actually thinking about somebody. If you check in with right now, that's a doctor in the Bay Area that's on the front lines. Who is a budding right from college. Like, I think those things like that's what we need right now in the world. Is that connectivity and intentionality when we're all holed up and quarantine? So that would be my ask of folks. If there's one thing to Dio and the one other thing I'd say is given the customers we serve is if there's an overlay on that of recognizing how lonely it could be from what we've heard from our customers to be an immigrant. And so I think about, like, the intersection what I just said,

I'm like what it must be like to be like a Filipino nurse right now that is thousands of miles away from, you know, their kids, their parents, their families and in a very scary situation serving code 19 patients. And so I think just holding up immigrants in esteem and respect for the sacrifices they're making to help our community is right now, now would be another very important thing that I think we can all do toe make the world a better place to improve their lives and help. You know, immigrants continue toe, contribute to our communities, which they dio and remarkable with.

Thank you for that. That's such a good reminder that even some little things can be helpful and definitely for me personally, I have a few people I should go check in with after we hang up. I love hearing the story and catching up with you. Matt on Permit Lee It's been remarkable to just watch from the early days of sharing that office to see how far you have come for people that want to follow you or keep in touch. Where should they go?

Jacobo me on Twitter Just ah, Mac underscore ah p o p p y they conform me on linked and I post various articles on there Or you can always just evil me. It just matt at remit li dot com

And are you hiring at the moment?

We are one of the few companies right now that is hiring so you can go to the careers page on our website and see. I think we've got about 25 open rolls right now in Seattle. So, yeah, if you're interested in that mission based exciting journey and there any rules on their exciting please,

I highly recommend it. Thank you so much for being here today, Matt. Thanks, Adam it on. Think it's on. Hey, it's Adam again. Quick note before you go. Thanks so much for listening. I hope you're enjoying the show as much as I am enjoying making it. If you do, I get please leave. A rating or review would help other people find it in apple podcasts or wherever you listen. And if you have any feedback, send me an email. Adam Seattle podcast at gmail dot com. No underscores no periods. Just Adam Seattle podcast at gmail dot com Thank you again.