do another podcast? Yes. You excited about that? Oh, yes, This is business, Dad. Hamas. Alexis O Heyne really feel about his dad. On this episode, Alexis speaks with his father, Chris Tomainian, about how to raise a child that is socially aware. Chris O. Hannon was born to our meeting refugees and worked as a travel agent before starting his own agency when Alexis was in high school. In addition to Alexis, Chris has two grown stepdaughters.

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no spaces. And if you go toe Adams dot com slash business. Dad, you have everything you need. That's a t o m s dot com slash business. Dad, you'll thank you. Later. Everyone told me where the last podcast we did together was their favorite Wow favorite one of the whole season. Nice to hear, and I assume it's not because of me because I was in every episode, so it would have been because you. So I figured if we're doing another podcast, it made sense to start with you in a lot of ways, that kind of inspired this podcast. It's called business Dad whole.

It is to get to get men who are a top of their games in whatever industries but who are also fathers and basically spend the entire time not talking about their professional lives. Uh, but talking about their their their sort of balance or the ways they try to struggle the fine balance between their professional on their their personal, their family life and what it means to them. I'm trying to learn tactics and tricks to be better at finding that, trying to find that balance myself. And I'm excited because I talked to even just reaching out to people. Everyone's been super excited about it like they want. I think it's something that, uh, if a woman saying business, whatever it is, has a kid. When she comes back to work, it's like the number one question. How do you balance it?

How are you dealing with it? And we, as men rarely get asked that on. It turns out a lot of us actually really do care about family andare relishing the chance we'll talk about this stuff now. So, uh, what's kind of cool? And I figured it would make sense to start off with you, given not only how well, the last interviewing, but also because you're, like, the original business dad in my life. Uh, so scientists, we can start there,

and it's actually pretty appropriate. We went. We got our Christmas tree yesterday, which is, ah, post Thanksgiving tradition of ours since I was a little kid. And I think that's probably good place to start. So I'm here home for Thanksgiving, and this was a tradition we had every year since we moved to Maryland out of the city, or you're right, since 86. Do we not have? What do we do in New York?

We goto a greengrocer by

Christmas tree. You

know, there was pre cut a month before from somewhere in New England and get home. And once it was within the apartment or house and room temperature as a rough, it didn't have a long life.

Okay. All right. So when we gonna Maryland, we started going to get these trees. There are these traditions that I remember growing up like this that at the time, like it's weird, is a kid, cause you're like you're doing this thing that you know you're doing and you do it every year and like you find the weirdest things to remember or look forward to like. In my case, I talked about how just the Ford of reason. Hot apple cider one is like in my brain is like That was a partner like I no way would scatter on some trees. He get me down there, would be sawn it with the bow saw. And then I collected tree bringing up and have some outsider. And it's such a like It's a few hours. It's a journey out like more rural Maryland. It's a trip back.

I mean, there's there's nothing grandiose about it. Like it's a really simple ritual that we didn't every single year. Yes, and it's lodged in my brain. Uh, why was this something that you felt important enough

to do to repeated? Yeah, every well, you know, we moved to Maryland from New York City, and I'm sober of 86 so, in short order, within 456 weeks, it was time to get a Christmas tree. And once I realized you could go to these farms, cut your own and get a really substantial looking tree much cheaper than what we're paying in New York City for trees from a greengrocer, as I previously mentioned,

might not have a long life span is a great deal.

Yeah, this was like, Oh, my God turned out a great deal. You're getting a great deal and you're getting a really fresh treated. You've cut yourself. It's like, Oh, my God, I know I'm living somewhere ever in Manhattan or Brooklyn or Queens. So it was just It was a fun outing, a little bit of an adventure, and it just was very pleasing. And those first years we went to a variety of farm somewhere small, somewhere, much larger scale, and you mentioned the hot cider.

Over the years we started going to a farm in Sykes Vehicle Pine Valley. It was big operation, with a really nice farm where you could buy snacks and outside and after you got your treated in a baling machine, a shaking machine to get the needle, and it's just Yeah, I just found it to be Avery. I enjoy. I've always enjoyed the Christmas holiday. For the most part, the Christmas could be a mixed bag of emotions with expectations that senator particular for Children and the getting of the tree, that setting it up, the trimming of it. I wish that was one of the more enjoying blast.

Surely there were times, though, when I was like, You're dragging me out of bed sleeping in. And I was just this ungrateful kid, And you're like, we're doing this doing and, you know, other things. Perhaps

not so much going up to get the tree

that my recollections, but are were there were what were the things cause, Like, um, you got me involved pretty early in Tiger Cubs yesterday in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. And we would do you and Mr Bride and were active. Yes, it was very much scout a

tiger cub. Yeah. Where the leaders, whatever we were. Yeah, definitely.

Dead leaders

for all of the cubs. Scott after that one year Tiger cubs. So, you know, that was like, a second through fifth grade, perhaps 2345

and then I graduate, and then you all I think, just started going on the camping trips because you like camping and drinking. And that was Boy Scouts

got there. And so we found that troop to join. And, um and that was starting. Got When was that more seventh grade? Should I can't

really transparent. Why did you want to do that?

You know, it's funny. I was never involved in scouting myself. I had no personal experience in at fault. It just seemed like, Well, it started with Cub Scouts at Thunder Hill Elementary and their parents were involved in interested. It just seemed like, uh, you know, this kind of things are you won't expose your child to on there. You can enjoy where they're not. If they're not, then it's short lip room if they're getting something out of enjoying themselves. And in the end, that whole scouting experience, I thought was so beneficial for you being with a group of guys growing up, learning some some some good skills and socialization, etcetera, I thought it very beneficial. I remember and cameras that one summer we signed you up for a camp over on the Eastern Shore.

Yeah, it is the chest. Yeah. Yeah. And you put your vote for a couple weeks

for about 10 days. You follow the river from its beginning. Started right exit into the day. And I remember there were certain activities, I guess involved camping each night. Something tradition. And you were There were some kids that were not well versed. But you had that all down. You hadn't done enough of that. You were very comfortable. Enjoyed it. And so those things and experiences where you learn life skills and so scouted it. And

why did you call him?

Well, once, you know, Listen, the den meetings that we held like this weekly, Mr Brian stops in the basement. Great. And we have to come up with a team each week of activity. Boy Scouts? I was

never remember. Let's go back to your video that shows every week. You, Mr Brian, have to come up with an activity. Yes, you've got Like, what? It doesn't kids books. Never

sold a painting, Lewis. And that started and I forget with this started first or second grade through fifth grade, sixth

and you've got to kind of occupy

them for about an hour and then be a snack. Our half attention spans. Not Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. Why would you put yourself it? Sounds like hell, because

it was it. No, it was meaningful. And, you know, the wind up in respect to when you have a child or Children and at centre is particularly not as much. So when I was growing up, But, you know, my generation, baby boomers, in turn, had Children, is to get involvement in athletics and extracurricular and scouting or music, whatever it is, exposed them to a lot of activities. So there's less idle time. It said Jerome, and they do meaningful stuff.

But why? Why would you want to do that? Because you were berating. You're working long nights. Are you working Long days and then it's like, all right, I got

to go. Yeah, once you assume the role of a parent, and that's what you should be doing. And, uh, you know, simple is that that's what you know, expectation of what you're going to get out of it. What you want your child to experience and and, uh, it will be beneficial to them as they grow up and become adults.

Do you feel like? Because so? And an early on Mom was a stay at home? Yes, the first few years and then working different jobs. And I got a pharmacy tech, right and working nights. And so how for you? How were you all able to make that balance? How was it? Because for out for I think be the entirety of child like you were the breadwinner.

Yeah, for the first, maybe three or four years old. 34 years. So and then Mom started working part times. Incremental work,

but even like as a ratio, you had to do a disproportion amount of the work, like time wise. Yeah,

but, you know, Mom's days were full doing activities with you, for sure. So it was all balance that way.

And did you ever like how when there were nights or days when you were just swamped causes, even before you started the travel agency, right when you were just because I didn't So for some my own until you're nice and so were there ever times when you'd have to, You know, you you'd spend those long days at work that long week at work and just be so burnt out. And so just over, um, and and then the weekend came and was like, What did what did those weekends represent to you as someone who's who is really grinding Monday way

all look for Lincoln's those of us that work a five day week for sure. Teoh, downtime and etcetera. But again, when you have a family and you have a child and or Children expectations of there's gonna be all kinds of things going on, things that you're running your kid to, things you're involved in directly and you know it comes down to either. You're either involved in that stuff you're not. And there are some parents who are not able to, maybe because of their work situation and working two jobs or whatever it might be. But if you only work of 40 to 50 hour work week and then you are able to fulfill those obligations and make your kid's life, we're meaningful. And that's important. Sure,

and when you would that's funny. Okay, so now, from my perspective, I always associate ID, I knew, especially when it like OK, so like fall was particularly memorable because you had football season. And then you also had a whole new slew of chores involving like leaves and branches and are, yes, true and way yes leaves. Uh, so whether it was raking Lee doing this stuff, like doing chores with me on the weekends. I mean, on one hand, I get it now is apparent.

Like I can't wait for Libya to be able to do chores just to be a work also just for me. Uh, no. Teaches good skills, but also really satisfying. What was the thinking behind? Because I very distinctly remember Sundays having to do chores in, like, have breakfast and then do chores in the morning, OK? And then the sort of mental goal of well, one PM is kick off. That's when that's when you take the boots off. That's when you're Yeah, well, relaxing.

Was there any thinking behind that of, like, sort of accomplished help accomplish things? And here's the payoff. Yeah,

probably. So you know, that's is funny. Should mention it. Yeah, I guess without consciously, you know, you get your chores, your things out of the way that you need to and then it ends up being true. your whole life. Yeah, No matter whether you're five or six years old or 65 years of these things, you need to take care. So then you can kick back and have fun and enjoy and yeah, and one oclock on a Sunday. Oh, my gosh,

Let's in TV needs to be stopped and everything stops. And in our case, it was the Washington Redskins football and another NFL teams and all really to and yeah, you know, that's it's like anything. And you know, whether I exactly grew up that way or not, Uh, respect for simply wasn't jumping Brother T watching sports with Graham Young

is very. I think it

was very different. Yeah, Grandpa was was never really a sports fan, per se, but still the expectation of doing chores. And then you can do your own thing. You're not. Once you've accomplished those casts

thinking about it because that's how it is registered to me, because there were plenty of mornings when I really didn't want

to do them. Of course, like most kids, you know, it's so funny with Children because early on there's a stage when they're like 234 and certain quote unquote tastic sweeping a floor.

So Olympia loves clean up right

now. And you did the same thing where we were living in that row house and Richwood and you get out there with the broom on the sidewalk was hysterical. Really Push the broom and you thought was fun. Kids think it's fun. Yeah, Release, which went away Then maybe 567 It starts to turn, and then it's like, Oh,

this is working, Okay? And so is that because you think the perception of it changes like they finally are aware enough to realize this

is not fun. Yeah, well, where are you and the parents saying, I want you to do X y Z kids. I'm not really Mood. I want you to know I told you to do it and that sort of back and forth, and that's that's pretty natural.

So but is there, like an opportunity there for there to be like so, if the natural instinct is not to hate it, is there an opportunity there to help a child? I mean, I never say, like, love chores, but but maybe not hated as

much. I don't know. It's a good question.

I'm gonna, you know, experiment with the Libya.

Yeah, I don't know, Alexis, but that's possibly maybe, perhaps

because what's the cause, right? I guess, as a little kid. Part of it, I'm assuming, is just feeling like you're an adult or feeling empowered. Must feel good when you're helpless. Like when you're a toddler, right? You can't do anything, Barely communicate. So, like, doing the thing that an adult is doing just looks or probably feels like I'm an adult. I'm

like, Yeah, you're right. I can I have not thought a true but all these things I remember that same house in Queens where we, uh we kind of do a makeover when we decide we're gonna move itself house way, the pain, all the rooms. And, you know, you were involved kids about, like, painting as loud and doing the best. Stop it. And while enjoying, that's brutal. And then, you know, a few years later, because I want you to paint this room.

Another distinctive childhood memory I have is going Teoh liquor stores. Colon usto pick up their Boston's empty Bolland before the age of recycled. I assume those things get recycled. Now I don't know that

you still can't with some liquor stores. A lot of just compact because there's money to be made in corrugated card or once it's been used. But, you know, growing up always. Where was the place where you can could consistently get in cardboard boxes later store.

Go to the liquor store.

Now people buy these days plastic containers When you just got cardboard boxes and put your stuff in there they were using. And supermarkets tend always compact. They're hard to get him now. You couldn't but liquor stores consistently the sizes air about right. Not too big that when you put heavy stuff in, um, senatorial smallish. But it's very practical.

And I remember going to these things with you and uh and then in particular, like things that you would build out of this cardboard weather was like how in costumes? Oh, my Casey Jr train all kind of was a full was a train like, Yes,

I know we got those extra from a supermarket because they were larger than fruit boxes, but yeah, you know, that's kind of a neat idea. You know, that recycled concept? No, corrugated cardboard is beautiful to me and you could again with Mr Brian. Oh my God, How much corrugated cardboard

registrar aboard. And there you go and change your look. It's busy and be really arena. And as I remember his young boy really enjoying putting the glowing fingers and then you get hard after its hard, stupid kids enjoy. It's just like it. It feels just adult enough, but it's still safe enough for, like a six year old. Like

you know, one anecdote this is my childhood is and it becomes less and Lois habits change and less and less traditions it is. I used to go the grandpa in Millburn or Cemetery Teoh, a tobacco store, And he would get empty cigar boxes because they went through enough sales independent cigar and the cigar boxes were waste. And they're beautiful boxes. And he and I were into stamp collect, and that was perfect for stamps storage. What a nerd!

And I'm gonna

stamp collecting. Yeah, we had a neighbor that was a stamp collector, had a shop and lovely. I got an album and it was, you know, I think he's still of your stamps. That I d. Oh, yeah,

that's a Look, that could be a legit. I mean, I don't know what the market? Yes. Now, I tried out,

but yeah. So, uh, cigar box and had no he bought. That is a stash elector. That was funny, you know, for a

few years. Yeah. Uh, actually, that reminds me. I think you told me they still make them. Um, that's the Italian company. The stickers. Oh, yeah. Sticker books sandwich. And they like the saints the same.

And they still exist,

And it will describe right there like magazines. But you'd get stickers that kind of like trading

cards. Yeah. Is that these random cards like, you know, that we're stickers on. And at the end of the season, we would sometimes right away into panini for the ones we never got to fill

the book. Are you

serious? You could order specific cards that you were never

successful. And he would write a letter to get them, and it worked.

Oh, yeah. Wow. And private. Nothing. Close check. Oh, yeah. And that was great, because trading cards for really young kids 456 is kind of a mixed bag. A sticker trading card loves a winner. Huge and we still have somewhere. And I remember, like, 89 90 91 of those books classic with different teams. Oh, my gosh.

It was It was selfish in a way that you also loved. You loved football.

And you were sharing. Oh, yeah. Loved way could share what? That's That's what you look for with with

your child. But then wouldn't some mutual enjoy And then what do you do when your kid is, uh, is into something that you're not into? It all

you try to understand special can, but sometimes, you know. But, you know, you just wing it, you know, But that tends to happen more as they get old. Sure, middle school.

I still remember you stepping into coach our soccer team

and first grade kindergarten. Yeah, K one k one to that was that was rough because I was clueless about the rules of the sport.

Oh, yeah. You're telling kids to go out there and start attack rain, you know? Yeah. Yeah, that

was I gave two years of time and I was like, Oh, my God, I can't do this. Just And then, of course, dealing with parents could be real pains, but

even a kindergarten. And this is not like it's not West Texas football. This was superb America yet, sire,

it does not matter. Schwartz. Show gun is okay. Parents Drew. Wow, you're in first grade. We'll

get some that T What's the story, Ghani? Anecdotes.

Well, you know, there was the one famous episode where I went off on that fella who was He was not the father of the twins.

He was boyfriend

of the mother. And he was vocally suggesting certain things about how we should play kids. And it really crossed the line. I got in his face. Unfortunately, I

went off. Yeah, but, you know, I get it. I totally get it. I I am awed by the fact that we're talking about what was going down

first grade issue. It was It could have been more than if I was still surging. Would have been one second, maybe second. Graham. Still, these are young kids.

They don't at this point, just running around running, right?

Yeah. Any in any out,

But yeah, So that's that's a memory. Another, you know, another ritual that definitely carried through to me that I do already for Olympia Answering it is Ah, pancake breakfast, usually Sundays. Ok, good. But that's like a thing. And that was something that you You did? Yeah, Grandpa do that, too?

Yes. Your grandpa was good with breakfast ramp. I did pancakes. Absolutely. He

also was This isn't a handy in Maine tradition.

Yes, he also made crepes.

Wow. And that was That was that was a lovely good creep. That sign is that are

finding technique, which is and he executed. But pancakes was his one of his specialties. And I liked that. I, you know, carried on that tradition are

what Why was

what was important suggested? You know, I enjoyed doing it. You know, the three of us would have breakfast together on either Saturday Sunday morning. You know, weekday mornings. That's not gonna happen. It's slam dash boom out the door

because you'd be out the door pretty quick. Prettier?

Yeah, fairly early. So you know it's not the environment, is he? You may actually sitting the same table wolfing down serial, perhaps on a weekday morning, but it does not compared to leisurely making breakfast on the weekend and having a little bit of conversation with your spouse and your kids are Children, and it's very satisfied.

I think Way dug into this briefly the last time we spoke for a podcast. But the other part that I really want, I really want to understand is you always feel like you're making these these trade offs on, especially once you started. The travel agency is then you're an entrepreneur, and then every minute you're putting into your work, your adding value to the organization, you're adding value back to yourself because you own it, and and so it becomes extra hard. Or it's an extra challenge. I think, to start to balance career and family because you can make the case. It's not like when you're working for someone else. You can kind of you can shut off your brain in a way because you're like I'm off the clock. Yes, I'm doing my family being now, whereas as an entrepreneur,

that switch never really shuts off on. So you're always feeling, I think, some level of of maybe not anxiety, but but some level of the trade offs you're always making a calculation of the trade offs of the investment in business for things like business were being present and with family. How are other specific moments you can think of struggling with that and trade offs you made, and I'm happy with or not.

Yeah. You know, I was fortunate because when I hope in the business October of 98 you were I don't know what Second

year of high school team. So you have probably for fresh.

Yeah. Somewhere. Now he graduated a 11 So 98 99. Yeah. Yeah. And so you were older, which was good. And and I knew initially because I was not able to take a vacation day for just over two years. So, you know, But weekends I was alone. Thank goodness it was Monday through Friday involvement. But it was, you know, long weeks, but you make that decision. I remember a family trip we did out west to see Grandpa and Grandma Grace just before I started the business and thinking that,

you know, there'd be a gap before I do any kind of family trip ticket. But you know, this opportunity that I had to go into business for myself was was too good to turn down on. And in the end, proved to be very worthwhile. And so you just you balance things that you still find time. I remember, um, now you think about finding time for things It must have been just before, just before it's a 98 October. It was earlier 98. I took a familiar family Familiarization trip with a bunch of other traveling just China way to Beijing

for a week. We brought me back those meditation balls. Yes.

And, uh um And so I came back and we you were Boy Scouts and there was a weekly I want to say Thursday night meeting and, uh, camping trip was once a month. But anyhow, I returned from China that afternoon, and there was that weekly meeting that I attended sort of the beginning at the end. I wasn't really a participant, and I just come off How long fight that was from Beijing. I don't know. 18 hours whenever connecting through Detroit on northwest of and it was like, Yeah, that's OK. That's a commitment as unite. What if I can't handle that whole Marty, You know, you might be a little tired. It's no big deal. So you do these things you know, and it's satisfying in the end that you're able to follow through on a commitment.

And during that two year period, that's interesting. That's also the exact I think that's basically the time. So I really started to get into Web development, programming, computers. And so during this time, did you ever like how How did you deal with that? And what were the conversations like with mom and like? And she was right, and I

yes, yeah, I mean, it said it wasn't like you just, you know, you managed it, you know, You divide up responsibilities, and it just it worked without consciously, you know, you just you do it. You know, once you've made a decision, everybody's different that way. But when you decide, all right, that's what we're gonna dio. And in all flowed

because she was working two weeks on two weeks off when we finish.

If they're with me seven days on, seven days on, seven days off, seven off was working. Yes. Yes, she was. It was a 10 hour shifts. It was 70 hours through on then awful week, which then she reversed her sleep schedule,

which was a trip that was physically it's a lot. Um, and you just made

a work? Of course. Yeah, yeah, I was good. And of course, you know, we had friends, peers that we're doing similar, and on everybody was doing their best to make that all work. And, uh, you know, all the parents of your bodies and friends there in Colombia. Andi, everybody else that I knew. Um, that's that's what you

strive for. Were there things that you carved out early that you wanted to be like? Father son traditions, air like like, um, so I think about it now, Olympia still to butt like daddy daughter time wanting to have specific rituals where it's just the two of us. Yeah, I consciousness for a friend of mine stuff.

Not a whole lot of time in a lot of it was the three of us, Sure. And it was only because he if mom was working or sleeping and from work that it was you and I. And it's just hard for me. Even those you know, a couple times you will go out camping capacity, but it tended to be a three occasion You and I just the two of us and Max. But Max is there, Doug True. And I'm trying to think off hand

because we never We

didn't go fishing. No. One year older? No. No. Then you did the charters with your way. Didn't have that. God, Alexis, you know, I wasn't. It's not like I had personally a lot of quote unquote hobbies or interesting since football football A spectator Onda. We weren't going to games ourselves until towards the end of your high school in the late nineties.

What were the what was the thinking? Buying all of the family road trips?

Oh, yeah. You know, the weekend getaways? Yeah. Saturday. Just because I think and I always enjoyed and where we live lend itself within Maryland, Down in Virginia would always be a wealth of just, you know, neat town Civil war sights. We

saw a lot of the American South. Yeah, in a lot. On by car? Yes. Road trip, family road trips in the summer. Now the Carolinas cause over the mountains, mellow yellows at the motels. Yeah, that's one of my favorite finding. Ever seen exercises?

Yeah. I mean, road trips, you know, I was I thought was very satisfying mom and growing up with a lot of road trips in Germany, Austria as a child. So that was good with her as well. And, you know, that's a simple thing that families could do. Inexpensive, simple in the family car, plotting out something

every on real maps. There were physical maps to during,

I think every March we would go down to stand Virginia syrup. There's the Highland Festival with maple syrup.

Who does that? It was great. How did you hear about the stand?

You just appeared here. Lock that, you know, we had finished our first year in Maryland. It was springtime, you know. And it's coming March after a winner, being kind of cooped up a lot. And, you know, you get cabin fever, we need to go do some on April Festival. Yes, I put those two rooms at a hotel in Stand down in the Shenandoah, and some I stumble upon this May Professor Highland counties, that county that butts up to West Virginia, going west to stand very hilly, small

oil. I think everyone listening obviously knows Highland County,

and it was just enjoyable weekend. Great country Morning, Breakfast on. Then go get maple syrup and everything related to that and good eats and just driving around the pretty mountain scenery. Yes,

that was a tradition. What kind of an effect or what was? And this was just really you Mom wanted to get out of the house. Yeah, formal. That was far weekend. A family. I remember, I guess. What was the super long trip we did? Where I got a little, like, surprised

every morning, Mom. That was when that was shortly after we moved to Maryland. That would have been spring of 87. And Grandpa offer a Buick? Yes, that they were excellent local Reagle, your eagle. And so we flew out to L. A. Spend a few days with them on. And then we drove the Buick back to America, and I think it took five or six days cross country, and you were in the back. So, Rooster chair, Good Lord and mom has surprised wrapped up toy package reefer

each day or whatever isn't that man? And I don't know if this is because I genuinely remember because you all reminded me of the story is probably a little boat, but

so yeah, and that that made the road trip really manageable between that

and swear on the back across country, five days like that could get Harry.

Yeah. And you were good. You were

what was a pretty wild for running around

stuff. You're high energy. I energy between that and happy meals from McDonald's. You were in the backyard, the whole backside yourself, mom and friend. And we I drove across United States, which was which was, which was great Member. Do

you? Good. Do you have wanted to of the things that really stand out for you about fatherhood,

that air, some of your proudest moments? Pressure? Yeah. I mean, well, now you know. Listen,

all these holding your granddaughter right there, more photos, more photos of her now here. Yeah, I mean, he probably as it's used here,

is Yeah, it's funny part of becoming a grand parent. You know, you're not quite sure what that's all about is okay, Will be critical. Nice. And then you start to have friends becoming grandparent's. You go. OK, then when it happens to you, then it's it's it's wonderful, the realization of what it involves, and then it's like, Oh, this is really great It's some of its reliving being a parent, but a completely different role. And it's just so enjoyable. It's It's funny to explain, and I think you don't fully appreciate until you become a grand parent.

Then you go like, Wow, this is great. And so that's definitely on the list. Are there any other moments particularly you're proud of? I don't want to just talk about why you're proud of me, but like no yourself. Are there moments just

like I just You know, I and I never considered myself

because I because I did not turn out terribly. So at a minimum, not darling, I can feel you should You should be able to feel at least somewhat

proud of the job. Yeah, you know, that's what you hold for a za parent. You do the best you can. It doesn't always ensure that things were going to turn out. Well, sure, that's your expectation. Is you one Things that turn out well for your child. Obviously, you do the best you can. I never thought of myself with some great Erin quote. Unquote. I just tried to do a good job and the story, and obviously very happy for you. And now your family. That's the other issues. You get older as a person and if you have Children, is that they find somebody share their life with. And if they decide,

just reward. You're worried about me being alone forever. Thanks. Don't know. Uh, your credit you never like ever pressured me about having Children because you see that Stoke. You see that trope? And maybe it's more so that the gunner subjects of the study open media like give us a grand kid. Where's it? And steps

Also, the pressures that sometimes parents never

once did I period of

feeling well. And I don't think I don't think we put too much pressure on you when you went to college. You're going to cut. That was great. Yes, It wasn't like, Oh, you

need to think about this me Now, if that wasn't,

where was this? Just go and do hard work and you'll

find yourself. You still remember me telling you, pitching you? I'm not going to college so that instead I could go be a waiter.

You mentioned that I mean, it

had sayings in Earth's deposit. I don't know why it is lodged in my brain. But I was doing such a good job at pizza serving that Tony, my manager, was like, You know what, Alexis? Your doing a hell of a job? Yes. I think you could make a lot of money working at a really nice restroom up in New York. Yes, I can make some introductions. You know, maybe you should Yeah, I am in my head. I just thought Wow. Okay,

Like, maybe I'm dying to get back to the city. Yeah, right. This immediate direct path back to kneel. Right? Right. Right. And I like this. I do get good money, and I'm like, what I'm doing. So, like, maybe. And I remember going Verettes deposit.

Yeah. Yes, I look Italian place. Yes. And I remember pitching you a mom about it. And to your credit, both of you were pretty stoic about it. And mom always, obviously, like, work super positive. Yes. And you told me to build a budget. You were like, why don't you think through what that's gonna look like, uh,

like a budget for cost living in? Yes, because it's an expensive place to live. And fortunately, this was a fleeting saying Yeah, but to your credit, it wasn't. At least that's what I what I took away from it was not obvious. Recoiling or or trying to act as though you knew better, which you did and which what you knew was objectively the sort of better advice to give but finding a way to help me arrive at it myself. And this is the thing that I'm like right now It's easy, cause will be is a toddler. And so I didn't tell her what the rules are. And I was like, uh, you know,

the Supreme Overlord, right? And so she'll just listen. But at some point, I'm I'm thinking about those scenarios where I obviously want what's best for my child. I obviously want to give advice to help save them time or struggle or pain, right? Based on my life experiences. And and then how do you draw? How do you know when to kind of hold back? Yeah, this is hard, like on, and you're sitting there. You're just like, oh,

like I know the right answer. The right answer. Continue on your path right now. Right. So So what? I don't know if you remember that specific moment of I don't to be honest with you, but generally how? I mean, because you at the same time, though, I knew the stories of showing his in your Oh, yes, Yes. Right before you went to college, we asked.

Yes, that was actually first trip

was, like, 19 years. Yeah, we're just a waiter working as a waiter in a show. These and the hustle temporary know Ophelia. Yes, but But there were. So you knew firsthand, like, really firsthand what it was gonna mean choosing that option. And it's like anything you weren't just like, Yes,

I can tell you something. In this case, you're a teenager, and I don't remember that. What? I remember when you worked a pizza that was shot, Rachel, you know, for a kid teenager, you know, and they'll come up with something. And you certainly your response. You could as a parent go off and say I don't know what the hell you're thinking about. My God, about my interview. And obviously the kids going to receive it like God and then want to go the opposite direction as far as reaction. So you try Teoh not be to strong in a negative way Name If you might feel that,

You know, you saw right through it. Unless the child is coming out with something that's, like, really like, Not a good idea, dangerous or just you just wrongheaded. But otherwise he just tried to ride through it and let them find themselves. As long as it's reasonable

stuff they're doing right? Yeah. All right. You ready? Watch the Irishman. Thank you. Okay. All right. Thanks. That I thank you. Business status. Brought to buy initialized Initialize invests in early stage technology companies and helps founders avoid the thousands of land mines it can cause failure. This initialized dot com to find out more.