This is business, Dad. This episode we get to listen in as Alexis Ohanian compares notes with this initialized Capital co founder Gary Tan to discuss how to be present for their Children and exchanged some kid friendly recipes. Gearing, Alexis counted initialized in 2012 and made early investments in companies like Coin Basements to CART. Prior to initialized, Gary was a partner by Combinator. He also co founded a blogging company called Pasta Rhys and was employee number 10 and Palin Tear. He lives with his wife and two young sons in San Francisco. This'll episode of business Dad Is Brought to You by Power as investors were always looking out for the broader trends and one of which is how the average millennial is financially behind and actually gonna be worse off than previous generations due to the rising cost of living, student loan, debt and financial crisis. One of the reasons we were drawn to a product like empower just very different type of bank and software, for instance, that has an automated savings feature. So you tell the AP your weekly savings target and then every day. Empower studies your income and spending and then automatically knows when to move the right amount of money in your savings account or don't grow at 1.60% a p y with unlimited withdrawals and no minimums.

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you're a startup founder. Why, Combinator partner? And now your business Dad and I have gotten to watch and learn from ah, lot of your experiences. Um, you have two boys, Garrison and Solomon and I just like, I delight in the fact that you are so unafraid to have them be a part of your work life as much as your home life. Like I've seen Garrison cut a rug is quite the dancer at plenty of events here at the office. Just even ordered randomly around and be here and be a part of it. Um, is that deliberate? Do you? Do you want him or both? Your kids? Do you want them to be exposed to the work that dad does? Yeah, definitely. And why is that important

to you? I mean, every day is a gift. Like what we get to do. Uh, I wake up in the morning and kind of don't believe that's our job. I didn't know that this kind of job existed when I

was growing up. So there's no guidance counselor saying, Hey, you could run early stage venture firm when you grow up.

Yeah, And so if he knows that this is one of the things you could do, then you know, maybe that'll help him figure out what he really wants to do in his

life. Do you? Do you think it has an impact more broadly around the office? Probably because this is not your only family won't venture. Capitalist Gary,

they're not. I don't think we take ourselves that seriously, though. I mean, you know, even our offices. Um we want this place to be pretty. Chill is then blissed out kind of place because we want people to be able to do their best here. So

the struggle and it is a struggle that we all go through as as clearly like, career driven individuals. Um, but also wanting the best for our families. Do you have lessons that you've learned, or like Dad? Hacks that you found have worked again to try toe try to find

My wife has taught me a lot of dad hacks. Excellent. Remember when um, we just found out that you're gonna have Olympia and came over to our house?

Yes. And your wife, Steph, warned me not to describe it as baby sitting.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Being a dad is a good price guarantee. If you take care of your child in the evening, it's never ever call it baby sitting.

Yes, that's right. I just think I distinctly remember

that. Yeah. Uh, and then do you remember the other one? Um, it was a long time ago at this point, this one I still have problems with. If you have a baby at home and you're out at a work event, you say it's going to end at nine

o'clock. Show

up. Better be home at nine. Yes, because, I mean, I get it now because I've had to do the reverse is like there's nothing worse than you're holding a baby for hours. You really need to just use the bathroom, and then you're looking at the watch. So that's a dad hack. But that's also

a husband hat that helps that house balance out the partnership. Do you feel like there are other particular moments you can already think back to? I mean, we're still both pretty early in the bad thing, but are there already moments you can think back to that you're especially proud of? We were like, yes, Like a small, like maybe a smaller, a

big victory, you know? Honestly, just yesterday morning, perfect. Um uh uh uh. I started getting into doing my YouTube videos.

Yeah. Subscribe to dot com slash period. You are

right to ours. Um, and I actually was gonna I was gonna set up some stop motion video for one of my thing. I had it all set up, and then my son Wake you woke up early, and he comes into his play area and sees all this stuff because I was gonna use his toys as an illustration of how this technology works. Was like, say, this person wants to rent a crayon or something. When he comes in, you sees, like, you know, he wants to make videos now because he sees me making videos. And, ah, instead of me filming the thing I needed a film.

We actually just, like, made a stop motion movie. Just the two of us. Have you got to do it? No.

Why not? Use it for your next. So I said, Yeah, but it was just cool

to see, you know, he's four. So, uh, he knows how to use an iPhone, but to see that he could move Ah, crayon a little bit at a time on, then take a photo each time and then play it back like there's a watch like this, like explosion in his head, like, Oh, I can do that. Like I can make a video like this

This This is something I'm so excited about for this generation. And and there's there's probably teenagers now who feel similarly and definitely everyone on the come up beyond where they're not just going to think of the world as a place where they consume content, but equally a place where they can create it. Because, like you and I, we grew up watching movies and then coming home and being like that was cool but not really being able to unless we had Aton of expensive equipment and some probably really hard to use software. Could we have conceived of remixing it are making it better? Why do you think it's important that Garrison, who is still only four, already start to think of himself as a maker as a creator?

I mean, I just want to be able to express himself. Um, I think that that's actually one of the core things that we run into often with founders. How often is it that in office hours we're telling people, you know you should communicate it this way or, you know people aren't going to get it if you say ex, but if you say it like with with this example on. So if you can communicate that that early, if that gets into people really early, then that's just really powerful for them. I mean, that's like, so career oriented.

The communication is core to any relationship. Not only just professional tryingto win and investors money, but also personal friends, family

created or love or make a movement.

There's many, many uses for those skills. The other side of it too, are the moments, though where you struggle, we all d'oh! Are there things that you have already learned from the hardest moments? And what what were some of the hardest moments for you as a dad that you have have have learned from or reflected on this? I mean, you're a very thoughtful guy, So I'm sure there are things lessons that you could give for maybe impending

parents. Yeah, I mean, not to get too real, but honestly, you know, I am a workaholic. I love work. And, you know, how could you not like we get to do what we do is just gonna love what we do And then, you know, through my twenties and through all the startups I worked on But even when I worked at y Combinator like the classic thing for investors even is to sort of back off, it's like, Oh, this is a life style. I got mine.

I never, you know, even today That's not ever how I want us to do our work. And I know you don't like both of us are like full bore, always thinking about work. And, you know, that's a challenge, right? Isn't that it's a crazy challenge? Because suddenly, uh, your life is not just your own. It's also about bringing up this little one who's basically helpless, Um, and you know,

to be Frank, I asked a lot of my wife. I mean, Stephanie took on so much and I, you know, probably especially that first year with Garrison. Um, I asked a lot of her and I didn't move my schedule. And how I thought, like, even when I went home, it was very hard to be present because you've got the phone right next to you. Um, and I think we all struggle with this. Really? Um, how do you go home and you have to be present? You have to actually turn off like not just the device, but actually your brain.

Yeah, you really do. And have you found now two kids in four years in? Uh, I don't believe I know you're not working less hard, but I do believe that, you know, any time you put your mind to something, you're gonna figure out ways to improve and get better. So have you found ways to better disconnect? What? What are some of the tactics? The big thing is just like, put the phone in a You lock it in your eyes, it goes, Yeah, it's out of sight

or airplane mode, like, do not disturb. Basically be president. The other thing that's really cool is routines for, so for me, um, I always do breakfast. So breakfast is my jam, and you wait. Gotta

make it. You serve it. Do you have a go to breakfast?

Oh, yeah. I'm all about eggs in a basket. Okay, that's You got to try this. You take cup bread? Yeah. Break just any kind of bread, but works with bagels.

Cracked egg

in there and fry it. Yeah,

that's right. Okay. And so you're making eggs in a basket? Uh, do the kids have a preference on particular type of bagels, a type of bread or

whatever. Problems making bagels ideal. I think he'd Garrison loves it

and are they is Garrison in an age where he is trying to I don't want a four year old does. But, like is it is a participatory. Yet

I have no family, No. Okay. He likes to mix the long make oatmeal he likes mixing by taking the, you know, fixing just put in putting it

in. So and why is that time so important? Why is that ritual so important feel?

I mean, it's just nourishing, you know? He's wakes up, he's hungry, and then you just get to connect, you know, and then, actually, really, Yeah. Especially now that we have a five month old, it's just me and garrison time. I'll make food for her, but she'll eat it like after after I take him off to school and it makes it all worth it. When Garretson yeah, eats the whole thing and like,

uses the bread and, like, slips up the yolk and he's like and then they see and he looks at me and says, Daddy, your eggs are the best, and it's like That's awesome like that makes it all worth it. You feel you

are here saying that you are a good cook show. I think that is genuine. I think Olympia looked at me and was like those eggs of the best. I think she'd be lying, just wouldn't know any better and it won't mean as much. But that, to me feels special. You said it was nourishing. It's literally nourishing. But I imagine it's also a kind of like spiritually and emotionally nourishing. Are there things that you talk about at breakfast? Are there like what is? What's the conversation there at the breakfast table?

A lot of it's like, you know, what are you learning about in school? I don't know. I mean, honestly, he loves talking about Legos and the Stephanie's build great things. A

future future builder

there. Yeah, totally.

What kind of stuff is your building this day?

Mainly he's got some fire trucks going on. He's got some rockets. Um, yeah, he's just really into building.

And then you will will take him then

to school. Yeah, usually it's, um and this is something that I wish I did earlier. um, the first year. Honestly, I You know, my wife did probably both, you know, often both pick up and drop off. And only after we're only after Solomon came along did I realize like, Oh, that's actually a lot of time And then be actually a lot of time that I could have been spending with Garrison earlier. So, um, so now what we do is, um I do either pick up or drop off every day,

and so one of the other you know, that's part of it. And that's fair. And what do you see in those? Like I was talkinto parker of rippling about how hard it was for the first things. It's six months of doing drop off because his daughter would actually get so sad. She was so sad saying goodbye. And they eventually started working through a process, and she got more comfortable. And now that, like, wave goodbye through the window? Yeah, is ah, it's a special moment for both of you. Give me what walk. Walk me through

that. Yeah. I mean, it was it was like that for a while. And then now we just have a regular routine which is high five fist bump. Big hug.

Well, there's a whole Yeah, it's like a tap every time. Every

time. He won't actually let me leave until we do that Tradition is important, is good.

And And when you think about the your now your two kids in Do you think you're an expert

at this point? No, I I'm figuring it out as I go.

But But surely there are. There are things now a second time around that you're able Thio sort of. You can lean back or look back on the experience you had with Garrison. Your first and sort of work. Smarter, Not harder. I don't know, but you have that extra perspective. But now you do have two kids, as opposed to one how and mind you two this was all happening at a time when I mean fundraising fund three. How did that? How would that coincide

with Garrison Alice? I mean, the travel was so hard, like we're on a plane

basically every way and you especially, yeah, we're carrying that load. And then now the time line, uh, with Solomon, I mean, initialized has matured. A lot has grown a lot. It is certainly a sort of Maur riel organization than it was back when we really did that first fund raise. Um, but do you feel like you're getting closer to understanding how you will balance this dynamic of being, you know, founder, managing partner of an early stage of venture capital firm and also father of two and husband like, Where do you think you are? If this weren't experience bar like how? How much further along do you feel like you are in figuring

it out? Well, I don't know nothing now, whereas,

like, for probably really felt like you knew nothing,

nothing. I mean, I was anxious. I was nervous, especially with Garrison. And then the interesting thing is, our second child, Solomon, has a different temperament. He is seemingly a lot easier, but I wonder how much of it is. We feel like we're not anxious anymore.

Then he's picking that up to do something,

especially at that age. They really are mirrors like if you come home and you're stressed and you're just exuding this, you know, or of you know what I mean Like they can the kids few it, you know, they really just mirror it back to you. Gerson was one. I mean, he was, you know, zero toe one literally, while our our actual real fund was going 0 to 1. And so it was crazy. It was crazy, nerve wracking. Actually, when

you think about that time and and now you see, though, I mean you I don't believe that you You surely Whether whether some books he surely had you couldn't have felt you had zero. Okay, but you're clearly you and stuff for both capable adults. Capable humans. Didn't really feel like you just had no sense of what to do or or What do you think was at the core of that anxiety,

man? I mean, I had a pretty tough childhood, honestly. And so that was one thing. That something that was something that I had to overcome, you know?

Yeah. And you had to write your own like playbook and look, and I know how deeply you care about your kids. I know what a great dad you are. Don't worry. I'm sure like you are doing a great job, but I'm sure there are also a lot of dads or expecting fathers and mothers who who share similar concerns. Yeah, so So what do you think helped you most during that time? Yeah, Or what things?

I think the first thing was to, um, kind of allow myself to feel afraid. Um, And then the next step. Really? Waas Well, I have I have these and anxieties, and I have these problems around. How do I deal with authority, or how do I properly discipline my child Because I don't have a good role model for that. Um I mean, mind you, you know, some of it was just purely being the child of immigrants, right? Like that.

There's, like, a very different way than the western world that Children are raised in a very different way from, like, that era of Chinese culture to like today what we have today in the West.

And there's a there's a historical press it on, But not for that. Can you dig into that a little bit too? But how that shapes. How does that immigrant that immigrant?

I mean, immigrant rights, they, you know, they believe in corporal punishment, like they believe in, uh, you know, spare the rod, spoil the child. Right on. That's still a struggle that most of my friends, who are you also of immigrant descent that that's Ah, that's a real decision you have to make like, Will we spank our child or not? Um, and all the research points to you don't have to.

There's no reason why you would, um, but if you're brought up in that way, that's a decision you have to make. And there's actually a fear there. Also, that's a fear. Well, what is what's gonna happen to this child? Um, if you don't have the right type of discipline and what is that right type? Do you spank? Do you not or, you know, frankly, you can walk around in everyday society,

you go to a restaurant, you'd and you see Children who do not have any discipline in their lives. And you know what happens with that? Um, so there's, like so many levels toe how you want to raise

your kids on there, and there is There's no literal playbook when they're tons of random books, but there is no one authority on it. Everyone's hacking it. Some people really suck at it. Some people are really great at it. But even that. I think there are a few objective things we can look at, but by and large it's all pretty subjective. Um, and there's no one rule or there's no one rule book I should say for how to do it right. But you're clearly very thoughtful about it. And I think that's a big part of I bet if you mapped out the people who cared to be great parents and like we're very deliberate and very introspective about it and then map that to the people who were actually like, at least not terrible like it probably overlaps pretty well. Like it feels like the first step is at least the self awareness and whatnot. But then, did you lean on Resource is like friends. Were there outlets or where their channels to discuss

warm? Absolutely. I mean, honestly, I'm still totally huge believer in therapy. It helped me so much, especially around, because there are situations in parenting today. I mean, even last week, where I will get flashbacks like sort of PTSD style to my own childhood, and I you know, I actually, you know, I'm glad to be able to talk about it because I actually think this is probably more common than anyone would wanna admit. Right? Um,

like your face gets hot. It's, You know, there's some situation that you have to deal with. Like maybe there's an initial impulse or include a like, You know, maybe that's the moment where hey, like this kidneys. I need to spank this kid. I mean, And that's like, That's not from your prefrontal cortex. That's from like conditioning. Right? Um and so honestly, the hardest part is just even noticing that,

right? Like, you know, one of the things that I'm trying to understand as a human being is how do you reconcile those two parts evident? You always have, like this initial feeling or, um, instinct. And then clearly we have this other, more rational side of us that you know, there's like, sort of a horse and the rider, and there's enough been nothing in my entire life more than parenthood that has made that distinction between horse and rider clear.

That's that's good wth E. And I can assure you, and this is his come up in sessions of my own, where even without the trauma, there are still absolutely echoes of childhood and memories of childhood that I didn't know existed in here that pop up because of Libya. So it is the absolute universal thing. Traumatic times or not. And it's this I never heard it or thought of explain that way. But it is so shaping of our existence and how we view all kinds of interactions. Forget

artificial intelligence. We're programming a human intelligence. When we when we are parenting, we're programming. Ah, human intelligence and that human will go off and do wonderful things. Hopefully,

hopefully. And it won't just be some big waste of azure credits. A fake A I actually intelligence capable of doing. And I think you're right. Hopefully, good stuff in the world. Um, there is this. There's this magic that happens when I see Olympia enjoy things. But I have now grown jaded by innit? Wonderful. That childlike wonder. Uh, when she was really in a fish for a while, I could take her to an aquarium, and I just just laughing with joy because she could, like touch fish swimming in a little fish touch pool.

Whatever. Are there moments? You you've really just been delighted by where you've seen that in presumably cares, But maybe also solving, um, where you see this childlike wonder and it's like, Oh, shit, This is why I used to love blah, blah, blah.

I mean, what comes to mind right now is even just from this morning, Blake Solomon is so happy that literally, like, he'll wake up at 5:30 a.m. And then he'll, you know, try to wake you. I like, put a hand on your face and then when you finally wake up and look at him, he'll just greet you with, like, the biggest smile you've ever seen and he's five months old. This is insane. I know. It's like he's just happy to be alive

now. And is it is it because of the the purity of it? Like a five month old can't like. Their life is really simple, and it's dependent on you all to survive, and they don't have to worry about their jobs or their investment portfolio. All right, it is. There's a purity to it because they haven't been affected by the world really

working on being able to sit up on his

own right. That's the big goal.

It's like, No, I can tell that he's trying to, you know, he's trying to figure it out right now.

Yeah, I think that that was a mine job. And I think moments like that helped me empathize, uh, with our kid, because there is a lot going on up there and they're so limited by what they can do. And it clearly gives you a sense, like a profound sense of appreciation for the moment that you're just like you said. He just seemed happy to be alive at moment with all the stress, with all the like we deal with, like, capital, less stress from time to time. We do with, like, lower case as kind of bullshit stress all the time. But But what a difference. Describe the difference it makes when you see that simple joy and how it makes you feel like Do you ever get you a little jealous, right? It's a good

life. I mean, I often look at my kids is like, Man, I would I wish I could trade. Let's trade bodies, man. It's

like, Are there specific moments when, uh, when that

hits you? Oh man, Honestly, even just like dropping garrison off for school and then, seeing you know, he just gets to learn these new concepts for the first time. It's like, uh,

he and life is

simpler. Yeah, it really is. And he's asking super interesting questions. You know, I actually think he like, uh, he asked my wife this very early on. He was like, Mommy, what's the difference between a mistake in an accident? Whoa. I was like, Yeah, you know, those are different things. Wow. Yeah. And so they're making their way through the world and asking questions, and you know, you're there to try to answer

them. And do you ever try to mess with him? Are you Which parent or you're in the air? It is just deliberately messing with, um, we're an like, Why is the sky blue? Are you just deliberately go around Berri's

bulldoze Garrison, Stephan Minecraft Once in a while,

there we go. That's what I think This is. The 21st century kid troll thing is really important. Uh oh, that's good. It's

They play Minecraft. Yeah, there's a Minecraft realm and plays with his cousins, and it's just school.

And so and they're effectively playing Legos together in the digital world created a much bigger scale. Do you

Do you mind? Craft? Oh, yeah. I mean, Minecraft is the jam. You can do something. The thing is, I don't like creative mode. I like survival modes. Probably says

that's the one where you have to defend you build like a Ford

kills. You gotta find the diamonds on your own. Yeah, I I enjoy trying. If I like. My favorite thing in Minecraft is actually the mining, which sounds really boot, does that? Yeah, that's it's kind of like our job. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I'm looking for diamonds. I'm like a level like 27 or whatever it is deep down, trying to find the diamond. Think we've got We've got more,

more founders of the portfolio, Just people on our network who are becoming parents, especially dad's, and they're all like us super career driven. We're fortunate we love melon. Do we have great jobs? We love the work we d'oh. And before this type of person, what's the advice you're giving

them when they're like Gary? What do I do? Yeah, I got a kid on the way at the end of days like you gotta be smarter. You know, you can't do it the way you did it. You know, like you just can't. There's just not You can't, like, burn the midnight oil. You shouldn't. You'll, you know you'll burn out. You know, either you you'll burn out or, you know,

you're just not going to take care of the family, which happens, right? It happens. Um, yeah, you just literally have to be smarter, like you have to cut the calendar back down. You have to say no to a lot of things and there's not really another way.

It is a great Utah would say no and kind of encounter. The best part is you have something that is unassailable, like if you need. If you ever need a reason to not do something, kids got a kid thing kid stuff and have you found like Is there a mental test? I know we've This is kind of leading because I've heard you describe it during a couple of after some pitch meetings. But is their mental test that you use when you're evaluating your time like an explicit one around your kids versus your work?

I mean it. It becomes a direct trade off, right? It's, uh, you know, I could spend an hour or half a Knauer with this thing or, you know, if it's against like, I mean, the hard part is, if it's against, like, spending time with your kids, man, that's a really high bar. But it makes everything very clear.

That's great. That is that I think crystallizes it well and helps guide a whole generation of business dads to make the right choices. Please try to have a kind of North Star toe work smarter.

Yeah, working smarter is almost the only way

I love it. Yeah, very tan business stands brought to you by initialized Initialize Investing early stage technology companies and helps founders of with thousands of land mines that can cause failure.