There's so many people. Interesting people learn it's easier than ever to make to make that connection. I even five years ago it would have been imparted. A good computer goofed on your podcast, but you know, he's a direct message away.

My name is Stuart Allsop, and this is my podcast Crazy wisdom, where interview creative people about how they work with and manage the stress that is inherent in creative work. Whatever realized over the past 10 years of my research is that anybody who is creating something of value that is significantly different from what has come before is considered crazy. Most of us have a fear and angry and fear of going crazy s. So what I'm saying is grab onto that fear, realize that it's there and just go with it because the problems we're going to be facing over the next 20 years require crazy people in order to solve them. Everyone welcome to the crazy wisdom podcast. My guest here is Matt Miller. He's the head of content at pod coat podcast notes. They did it some notes for my my podcast. Crazy wisdom. Um, a couple times over the last month and I realized, like, wouldn't it be really interesting toe interview them about what they've learned from making podcast notes for the best podcast over the last few years. So welcome to the show,

Matt. Love to have you here. Um, what's, uh, what's going on in your life?

Um, so I just got back from a long backpacking trip. Uh, but a week ago, and I spent some time in Thailand and Vietnam, and that was sort of a trial run at doing podcast notes full time. So I got back about a week ago, and I'm just I'm settling in now, trying to get into, um, more of a work routine and doubling down on podcast goes even further and seeing where it see where it takes

us. That's cool. So you had been backpacking in those places before, but this was the first time where you tried to combine both work and and, uh, and travel.

Yeah, exactly. So this is this is the first trip. I wanted my girlfriend. And this is the first trip that we were way kept working full time. And it was, you know, it's a little challenging at first, right? Because you're in this new environment and school country, and all you want to do is explore an E and a lot. But, you know, it actually became user like that. We got into a nice room scene. So what we would do, You know,

we would get up in the morning, go to a coffee shop and work for a few hours and then take a really long lunch break to work out, go get some food, do some exploring, then come back with a new coffee shop, do some more work, and then, you know, we never whole nights free. So it was. It sounded challenging, but I don't know if we'll be able to do it, but it worked out really well. There was a nice balance.

Yeah, I think for what you're doing, because you don't have set times where you may need meet somebody. You're just kind of transcribing notes. You can do it without it. Doesn't really matter at what time you do it, right?

Yeah. No, exactly. I could work whenever and I just wherever, as long as there's an Internet connection. And it was something I really enjoy it. So, like that. Hold the digital nomadic thing, you know, working in your countries. It's it's something we're gonna explore further. We're back home in New York now, but I think probably you don't come the fall when it gets colder again, we'll pick a new destination, maybe Mexico, maybe somewhere down there and try it again.

And like the whole with the working like no new country sort of thing, it kind of it doesn't it? Well, right, because if I'm home here in New York, I had it. It's hard to focus on other things besides work, so having other options of things to do, like, you know, going exploring in in these new countries is it creates a nice balance. It's like a nice break in between. Work

inspires a lot of creativity as well. I've done a lot of travel, and if you have any places you wanna go in Mexico, let me know if you have lived there as well. But there's one interesting thing that I want to mention, which is that I've tried remote working but doing interviews. It's really difficult because that's the one thing where you need a set time and it complicates scheduling like crazy So it's really difficult, um, to the travel into new time zones, particularly in Asia, where it's such a large difference in terms of Nate night and day. Yeah,

and the Internet is always like there's always an Internet issue on. Honestly, I don't think I ever got over 15. What is it? Megabytes per second And get those cafes. So that might make it a little challenging to do to do part past interviews

up. So I I'm really interested in getting into your head and figuring out what you have learned. Like, what are the You know, the big takeaway is that you have from doing these podcast notes for For how long have you been doing it?

Um, I think it was back in. You've got 2000 17 summer 2017 I started. It was just kind of like a nights and weekends sort of thing. So just some background. He only started the site in It was 2015. He was working on it for two years, and then I discovered it. I had an idea for doing something similar, and no, just through Google came across the site message, Joanie, and we started working on it together, and I want it. Sort of, like, took it under my wing over these last two years and like,

Yeah, like I said three months ago, is kind of when you know the first trial run. Doing it full time. Nah, yeah, that was my my Make it.

How do you guys, uh, kind of set the guidelines for what podcasts you think are worthy of of transcribing?

Honestly, it's just like solely what I'm interested in. Uh, and as it turns out, there's there's a whole community of people just like me, just like us who are convicted, these self help and, you know, development sort of hot cast. So, like what I'm interested in, there's thousands of other people out there who are also interested in the same thing.

This is something I thought about a lot because I'm starting to broaden the scope of my my podcast from just investigating creativity and stress to kind of intrigue. Whatever interest I have in my interests are so varied, like I'm really interested in massage and fascia and the science behind pain and the science behind what happens when you put your hands on somebody. But I'm also really interested in Blockchain Cryptocurrency interested in the history of spirituality and all these, like, random, random things. And I'm wondering if I can find another group who would really, um, vibe with that content.

Yeah, I actually never minded me between you have the other day. I kind of left out doing doing a podcast while giving someone a facade. You totally do that. Genetics.

Yeah, I I really want to do that one because I have found that have some of the most interesting conversations I've had I've had when I'm giving somebody a massage because they're super relaxed and they kind of they become really deep conversations. It's either silence or really interesting conversations.

Yeah, just to build off that, you know, there was a podcast a while back. They know how to do it with Neil Strauss and Gavin Reese. They recorded a podcast every week in the sauna. And there's something I don't know if you use the sauna, but there's something about that that hot environment you're sweating and, you know, going back and forth between culture who are old, they call it the truth barrel. And you know that za great name because the combination of that heat and you know that the ice bath or cold shower, it kind of just it really makes you a lot more vulnerable and still the truth, right? So, so much Think that

out. I think I think I'll start now. Yeah. So what has been the biggest thing you've learned, or what is the biggest impact doing this podcast inside on your life?

Um, so I guess it kind of pretty much everything I do now. I think I've learned from the world of podcasting, so maybe I could just kind of, like, take you through a day. Then we could go from there. So right now, um, like, we come early sleep related podcasts and I started really, really, really focusing more on sleep over the past year or so, but I took it a step further. Um, about a week ago when I got back and I stopped using any form off alone, and I was in a lot of my whole life,

and they're certainly useful. And I guess I'm lucky enough to be in a position now where, uh, I could wake up without one, but what I'm finding is every single day, like if I don't wake up in alarm, I'll sleep for, you know, nine or nine and 1/2 hours and like that's a that's a long That's a long time. So, like my whole life before that, you know what? I set an alarm in my always missing out on the extra hour, hour and 1/2 asleep and who knows what damage that does in the long term. So lately, that's kind of just been something I'm doing.

I always track my sleep within or array. Obviously, you and many other people probably heard that pop up in the world of casting. So I wake up. Oh, usually I won't eat for a while, so I do do some sort of intermittent fasting. I have black coffee, right when I wake up. I've tried sticking with a meditation practice, but it's it's it's difficult to stick with. I come back to it every now and then, but it's hard cementing that habit, and maybe you have some sort of thoughts on that. But I think I think I heard the That's meditation as well. Um,

so like all of those things I've You know, I picked up from the world of testing. Uh, another says thing. So spring water as well, huh? I stop drinking tap water after listening to her. Who? Uh, the pockets that I heard it on. But they're talking about all that. You know, the chemicals and stuff, even if the use of Britta filter. So I only drink spring water. So,

like you'll see, I'll hear something in a podcast. No, maybe experiment with it. And it works for me. All kind of just stick with it. Um, Another thing I picked up from the world of podcasting working at a standing desk. Um, I like all through college, I always sat down and things like that. But I bought a baron s and I'm totally converted. Now, I feel so much better working out of saying yes, I think I heard that from Kelly Star at, um,

it was so Yeah, those are all things. And then, like, I usually work all morning. Oh, I'll take a break me day to use sauna. And obviously that's That's a popular topic. No days in the podcast world. And I'm excited the cold shower. And usually after that, come back to do some more work and maybe eat like a late lunch from three or four o'clock. So that's kind of when the intermittent best ends and let's see. After that, I'll take a break. Do we go to the gym and my workouts are focused on the compound lists?

I'm slide and lifting and press that sort of thing. After that, I'll come back for dinner and diet and nutrition like I picked up a lot from the podcast worlds, and I guess the overarching principle principle there is e more vegetables. Like every single person, I have a double or triple the amount of vegetables they eat, and they still wouldn't be getting enough. And I try to do the job that. So after that, you know, just maybe a little more work. Come back, relax. Uh, it kind of wind down for the night on. You know,

it's a name with the focus on sleep, I said, You want to do like minimizing love. Not like I'm so stupid. And I may be in some fiction before bed. That's not something I used to be. Oh, I feel your fiction books. It just it turns off the movie mind relaxes you issue. It's a nice state. So that's gotta my daily routine. You might have some follow up questions.

Yeah, so the 1st 1 is. Have you guys started to transcribe any, uh, podcast episodes of the All Carnivore diet or people talking about it?

Yeah. Um, there's There's been a few of those I think job in talks a lot about that, but it's just something like I don't it doesn't really sound. It doesn't really sound that healthy to me, right? Like eating meat for every single meal. I understand there's some benefits that people experience, and but I think a lot of those are more so tied to Heller. Prescription and giving. They got the microbiome arrest from other types of foods. So, yeah, za topic. It's a hot topic, but it's awesome that I already only have implemented in our own lives.

The thinking that got me thinking about it was that use it as an elimination diet to eliminate any potential sources of allergen or whatever, so I might give it a try at one point for a limited period of time. But I think there's an interesting element of because meat is so satiating being able to eat that s so that you can kind of get everything else out of your diet for a limited period of time and then start adding it back in batting the things that don't cause an issue.

Yeah, you work depending on No. What? Sort of maybe like you know you have. But if you're you're healthy, I think I think twice

on DSO then the other question I average follow up question because you guys have done a lot of transcription of HK appeals work in HK appeal. It's a very interesting character because he people find him in the self help self development type of thing. But at the same time, he's completely like you really listen to what he says. He says, This is all bullshit s. So how has, uh, transcribing his podcast episodes influenced your life?

Let's see. Question. Yeah, I guess the big, overarching theme is kind of just look for the truth of whatever situation you know you're going through. Um e no. Crazy was simply talked about on your podcast, but yeah, everything to feel says just it makes you think it makes you second guess you know the world off something. That moment itself help. But that's not to say it's not useful things like that. But I think just the overarching thing I've learned is having just a question. Everything and get to the truth, the situation. But he's He's an interesting guy. I really enjoyed your interviews with him, and I just I thought it was funny because,

uh, yes is he's like, I have to get medication, right? The quote was in a podcast like Astra meditation teacher if they had silenced their mind and will a street money. Hey, yeah, he's just He's an interesting character, especially on Twitter. Yes, he's great. Can you? Uh, but, uh, yeah, he he's quite,

uh yeah, The thing that I get most from him is essentially like it's a reality. Check on whatever I think I should be doing at the moment, because I have this this this thing in my head, which it's like a constant kind of like I'm not doing enough got to do more than not doing enough. And whenever what he really expressed her transmitted was this sense of like what is the actual truth behind what my mind is telling me, what is the truth of what's going on right now in this moment where, uh and it seems like it kind of all of that stuff is dissolving now where it's like, I don't really need to pay attention to the voice that's constantly nagging me to do more and more and more may be the most important thing for me to do right now is actually to just turn my attention towards what is true. What is what is demanded of me right now. At this moment.

Yeah. No. Yeah, that's exactly right.

So, uh, so what has been your favorite interview?

You, Uh, But, see, we put out a list of the top 10 podcasts of 2018 and honestly, all that was just, uh, self picked, but one of those on there, I think I put it in the number two slot. Waas Brandon Stanton, the founder of Humans of New York. He appeared on Tim Ferriss. It was last year. Did you? Did you listen to that turn

into, you know?

Yeah, that would be an interview. Every single person, uh, should listen to his story is absolutely remarkable. So that that would be That would be number one, uh, actually feel Gupta head. It started when he first came on the scene. It was a terribly he did on the 33 voices. Dialogue, Uh, last year, I think it was it was actually called the truth. That was another good one, actually. Let me pull up the list.

You're here because, honestly, I wasn't listening to so many cats. Okay, so yeah, back another really good one. Dr. Matthew Walker, the sleep guy. When he first came on Joe Rogan last year, I was like, the first podcast he did That was, uh, like podcasts of the year. Hands down. That's just opened my mind.

Everyone else's you How important sleep actually is, Nan. I would also say, like there's this noble Roman consul periscope obsessions. It's not really a podcast, but every time he does one of those, it's just like, whoa, I have to write everything down. So he's done a few really good ones, but in particular for people just kind of like discovering him. There was when he did in June of last year, where he went over his eyes, how it get rich tweet Storm, that was That was like it was really good. And in many ways it's kind of similar to the podcast,

the short series of podcasts clips he's putting out now, and another really good one from him was he didn't want in January of this year. Remember the date? Exactly. But it was right before he started a short podcast series, but that was also like a really, really, really good one cannot. That's just recency effect. But yeah, I was definitely check out.

Let's go into other recency effect. What's that?

Ah, maybe, just, you know, like I hear podcasts and like as it relates to me, I don't listen to a podcast, and I think it's a lot better than it actually is, because it's one. I just listens. Listen, Thio, not something I really thought that much about, but that's not how I would define it.

Um, so you've had this really interesting kind of daily work where you're listening to a lot of information learning a lot of information, and then you're writing about the information so that people can read it in on top of or instead of just listening to it, because listening is a very time consuming. Most people view it is a time consuming thing, even though you don't actually need to listen to the full episode. Uh, so what is the main difference between listening to something or reading it, or even writing it to learn about it? How do those three different ways of learning about something? How are they different? How they're the same.

Mmm. Um, so I guess, like, starting, starting with listening, right? Like a lot off these long form. Introduce our 2 to 3 hours in in length. Right. So they're obviously very long and off. Guys, uh, you can't listen to the whole thing in one sitting, so it's kind of hard to, you know, grass,

the key concepts and learnings and take that and apply them to your life. So that's kind of where podcast notes, uh, fits in. And like, if you slide over to reading, you can read a lot faster than you can listen. Like, even listen to a podcast into X. But everyone kind of sounds like a chipmunk, but so reading you're definitely able to zoom content quicker, but writing about it kind of like where, Where what I'm doing here? Uh, not really. I find it cements information in my brain like key concepts.

I'll just like there's a few quotes, all kind of just like they're cemented in my mind after having written them down. And I can kind of just carry them with me, you know, throughout life and just keep him in the back of my mind.

This is really interesting because as you were talking, I just realized there's another one which I'm now doing, which is reaching out to people and having one on one conversations and learning from that, which is very, very effective. One of somebody who interviewed me, Alan sake, um, he talks about Sigma to be, which is that they did a bunch of studies over people learning in school situations. And then I forget what the two first types of learning are. But it's the normal ones where you read or write or whatever, and then the 3rd 1 is one on one tutors and those people who have been tutored far, far outperform those who those who do normal learning like that and then something else that came to mind was I did a lot of been cut in my episodes into short clips, and I did that one with HQ appeals episodes. I cut out a lot of short clips because he had so much, uh,

s so many interesting things to say. And now I have appeals voice ingrained in my head because I listen to those segments over and over and over again. Um, it's all a scam. Everything Think, Yeah, uh, that's that's really interesting, because it it seems to come into this essentially, this. I don't know if you've heard of space repetition, Um, the or the forgetting curve, the about 90% of everything we learn is gone within four days. But if you, uh,

test yourself at that right before you're about to forget it, it strengthens the memory. And then we'll take about eight days to forget, forget, forget. And then it's an exponential on top of eight and then off of that. So, uh, what you're doing is you're you're listening to a piece of content and then you're writing about it. You're going back to it a day later. So it's never it never disappears.

Yeah, me like, if you don't relate this toe like school, right? Like I got an engineering degree. But I guarantee if I was, you know, I just hear the stuff in class and I studied it. But, you know, I guarantee if I took a test now, based on the same material, there'll be no shot at any passing. But yeah, I kind of like being back on somebody said about, like, the tutoring,

the one on one. It's I definitely agree that that's kind of when you learn most effectively and when things are really cemented because of like all that, Like the health information I picked up from the podcast world. That was something I kind of wanted to get into launching like a aside health consulting the service with podcast notes and from its toll, the beginning stages. But it's something I definitely agree with.

Interesting. So you're going to start helping people based on all the stuff you've learned in the podcast, you're gonna start helping people with their health.

Uh, yeah, it's something I'd like to do eventually. Like it's, uh, it's it's hard way have an audience that I kind of just looking for more ways. Uh, you know, I could lend a helping him, but it's still in the beginning stages.

So something really interesting. I just had a conversation with somebody here in Silicon Valley who's who's trying to build technology, to make podcasting easier, both for the broadcasters and also for the listeners on. And it's really interesting because what seems to be happening right now is that audio is taking. It's like Web two point. Oh, are you? Are you familiar with one point Owen? Then 12 point. Oh,

not No,

not really. Um, I'm gonna butcher this, but Web 1.0, is essentially the Internet. The first Internet. You got a well, you got, you know, you can go to different websites and stuff like that. Web two point. Oh, is social networks completely having walled gardens? Eso you get Facebook and Twitter, you get like an actual silo of content that doesn't that. And the incentive is to actually keep you within that silo. Uh,

and so now we seem to be entering some sort of new thing, and I haven't heard of anybody else talking about it. I've heard of that little kind of blitz about audio being this or that, but it seems like we are now transitioning from a visual representation of the Internet to auditory representation of the Internet, and podcasts are the 1st 1 Other examples could be Alexa. Um, other examples could be, you know, workouts that air delivered audio are short mini podcast. So? So there's something happening. Where where the Internet is now being represented. Represented in auditory formas. Well, so there are all these people in Silicon Valley now kind of catching on to this and are starting to build build actually just had a conversation right before our conversation about somebody doing it for yoga. Um,

and ah, and so it's It's quite interesting, Um, where it's going and what do your what are your thoughts? It's podcast notes. Where you guys going to take this? What is the What is the goal? Are you guys gonna start using technology? Because I don't know if you guys were aware there are people who are starting to to use use technology to do similar stuff to you. What? To what you guys were talking about?

Uh, yeah. I mean, so I guess just with podcast notes like you only would have his thoughts. And I'll just probably similar, but we kind of just tend to take it, like months, five months or five week, right? Like one of a kind of like the over Jake teams that were kind of publicity. So, money podcast is that opportunities kind of come out of nowhere, right? Like you can't really predict. Like, I never would have predicted six months ago that you reach out so we can have this conversation and then, you know who knows where this leads?

Maybe someone else listens to this. And then I got another podcast. So in terms of looking ahead, uh, you know, we kind of just wait, don't really It's We tend to focus on, um, let things play out, but in terms of, like, a bypass space in in general, uh, it is really interesting. It's kind of like still at it, its infancy.

It's growing and growing, and it is really a little be a part of it. Things that I like noticing in the technology space. I think we're seeing like the trend more towards shorter and shorter podcasts and almost like a movement towards clips. Right? So, like noble Robin Khan is putting out thes short audio cliffs of a longer conversation. You mentioned that you did it with a computer hooked up. People are like they advertised for an episode on Twitter like they'll put a short audio clip and we'll have a tweet and that, like, draw someone to the episode so you could do that. You could do in the balls doing you could release the episode as flipped. So you like the movement toward shorter and shorter podcast. But, like not only that, similarly,

um, I started, like, remember, could deal Gupta's capacity spending like Stop doing. Those are only those. Those are only, like, 10 to 12 minute episodes, right? But they weren't like so, so good. Well, yeah, and there are a few other people. I found that there was this guy on Twitter.

Mark. Well, there he had a short like it was almost like an audio block. It was only like, five minutes long, But he released his podcast, and it was It was really good. So I think the industry is seeing a movement towards clips like Overpass just released the thing right where you could weaken, chop up a short segment and set it to a friend And, like, shorter and shorter podcast overall.

Yeah, Interesting. And I heard the herd of s stat yesterday that about 22% of Americans know what a podcast is. So if you talked to you know 100 people, only 22 of them will actually know what upon cast. The rest would be like What? What was that? Wow,

that's that's a really interesting statistic. I don't know where you told me that. I don't know what I would have picked that number. I think I would have. I think I wanna paint it as much higher like, hey, you know, maybe 50%. But I don't know. Yeah, that's that's that's still, like, surprisingly low. And it just goes to show you how much. Um, room ministry still has to grow

Absolutely particularly when you compare it to China, where podcasting is like a $35 billion market. Do you know that

I had No, I had no idea

that actually, the in China, that it's very common for people to pay for for the content, which is something we're now only starting to see kind of people talk about right now. There is that I forget what they call them. The name of there is a podcasting platform that I's gonna start charging for it as well. But that's very common in China.

Watch you paint a luminary

Use very exactly. Yeah.

Okay, Yeah, I think I heard the name of the company, and I heard like I saw that is this bottle, but I don't know much more about it, but yeah, I know the industry still has a lot of room to grow like you kind of China. One thing I've always thought about, like, here we are in the United States and we have all this great podcast content, like from, you know, the big guy's obviously job in Paris like every one of them. But, you know, if you don't know English exactly that, that's a problem,

right? You're missing out on on all this great stuff, and it's just that's just something I've phoned about in the past. And, you know, it's a problem that eventually will be solved by someone.

Well, I want to solve It s o the there is. I can think about this all the time. Andi, I've lived in a lot of other countries and I've learned the language is in those countries, so there are no national borders to the Internet, although China has created one in Russia's in the in the process of creating one. But there are linguistic borders to the Internet. So Justus, he said, the content that's produced in English doesn't make itself its way to Argentina, to Brazil, to Spain and all these different places unless they happen to be part of the elite and can speak English with the level of fluency that's required. There are starting to be people who are creating content in these local languages. Actually, Colonel, he was saying that somebody that in India they are starting to have YouTube channels where they where they create this kind of content in local languages. And that's a factor of India already speaking English, so many people speaking English that they get access to this content that they can recreate in another language. So what I want to do is I want to start interviewing people in Portuguese and Spanish and French and creating content in that same way. I think that'd be really fun and also good for my practice.

Wow, you say you're you know the languages.

Yeah, I could have done interviews in Spanish and Portuguese before, and it's not, You know, I'm not native, but but I can, but I can I can get the point across, and it's fun for me. And I think it would be an interesting novelty for people in other countries. Like, Oh, is this foreigner doing doing ah, doing doing interviews in this language on dhe French? I'm almost to the point. I think maybe in another year or

so I can probably go cool. Dude, you know what about like, the podcast markets in these other countries like, huh? Is there like a Portuguese Tim Ferriss or Joe

broken? I don't think there is. It's pretty small, but I do think it will grow. Um, yeah, yeah, I just reached out to somebody who does his work for Black rock, and he does investments in developing markets, and he's I want to do. And I'm gonna try to do the interview in Spanish with him. Furnace. That's really cool, huh? So what was that? What's the Coast episode you listen to this week?

Um, Let's let's go. Let's go back here. Let's, um who, uh shake. Hello, Chez Paris Fame Parish on Sam Harris is podcast. Waas was very good. I love kind of love when people interview him because I love his thought process around decision making. And whenever people dig into that, I find that really interesting. Also, Casey Neistat was a NASA. Yeah, Understanding thinks we can start up something huge fan of his, huh? Of his work in his videos. And he has It's really good creative inside. So I think I think that would actually take the top spot for me.

What was the biggest thing you learned from that?

Um, to see if I remember. I know it's your cheating, but it's okay, he said. If you don't know what you want to do it in life, spend as much time as you can, doing something you absolutely fucking hate, like that's that's that's That's so true. Like, you know, I washed dishes before, and it's not, you know, the most enjoyable thing, but it kind of just gives you It gives you some perspective. And he was talking about when he was working in the restaurant business.

Actually, he was. He was broke. I would see there's another one in embracing limitations. Don't think of them as obstructions. Think of them as opportunities. And I've heard that thing pop up quite a bit. And what if you filmmakers talk about anything there now? Varanasi. Until Paris's podcast, that was something T he had mentioned. Um And then let's see the last one, huh? This is, you know, I think you and a lot of creative people realize this.

The ability to set aside long periods of focuses soon super important for creators. And that's and that's so true. Like it's kind of hard to get created, worked on in like 30 minutes. Junks, man. Because once you get into that flow state, if you stop and go do something else, you can adopt a starter, right? And that same closed it again. You have to, you know, take the same amount of buildup time before you get into that. You know, unequal posting,

I wonder. I wonder if pay attention Maur to what Compu all offers and what other people offer. Maybe that flow state becomes natural to the point where you don't need to do anything about it, and that it does actually kind of pervades all of your other activities so that you could become a flow state all the time. This is something I think about, um

What? Becoming a ghost? Eight. Just maybe you could expand becoming.

Yeah. So, like, even in distraction, you become in a flow estate so that it I wonder if you kind of cultivate that intuitive insight which ca peel talks about that even when you're distracted and going from place to place to place, you are still in that flow state. And it doesn't cause you that same you that what I'm wondering is maybe that time in between, reengaging yourself in an activity does actually take that much time or not, Or whether you can train yourself to not trade take that much time.

Uh, okay, Um, I think I think you can. So one thing I noticed when I was traveling maybe this is just me, but your life, Like I was hopping from coffee shop, the coffee shop I I'm very good at, like, sitting down and, you know, I'm starting work, and like I'm focused, I don't even think my other people like that's that's not at all what happens like it takes them you know, 10 or 15 minutes to get both best of them. And it just, you know,

get into that flow state. So maybe maybe it is something you can wear. Maybe it's something you're born with. Maybe it's It has to do with the type of work you're doing. So I guess, um, I'm pretty lucky. Like, I really, really enjoy this stuff. So maybe it's a function of that. Um Bye. Yeah. So just like filling often that one thing I want at a flow state, I think how I would define that is just totally, like losing yourself.

Any idea of the self? But I think appeal would agree with that, like in your work. So, like when your win, when you are doing your work, you don't exist. All that exists is the work. And that might sound like a little woo. But anyone who's listening to a few you can feel that my past would probably probably understand.

Yeah, that's a good point. All right. Have you guys thought about doing a podcast

way? Thought about it before one one thing, we be like, we put out, like, a test episode for patrons. Um, this was like no eight months ago or something like that where we just read through, uh, read through the notes Way could do a podcast, but I don't know it za crowded market like you. You have to be good to stand out, right? Like so it's been on our minds, but probably won't happen any time suits, but only if it's a great skill. Tohave like I think.

I think if you were like a high school student, you would probably get a lot more out of hosting like some sort of regular interview podcast that from a lot off a lot of classes, right, and you pick up a lot of skills and I'm sure you can. You agree with this? That kind of just translate over into into life from just talking to people about what they do for a living.

Absolutely no. It's been one of the most, uh, in the last year in three months, so I've learned like my rate of learning has gone through the roof, and it's just been incredible. And there's been all these spillover effects into my life about how I communicate with people. How so interesting, cause I would consider myself to be somewhat introverted and shy. Yeah, on that. It's like it's almost like because I was introverted and shy and I had to learn all these coping mechanisms that makes me really good interviewer, because it's almost like conversation was so uncomfortable that I had to figure out how to how to how to do it in a comfortable way and now

started Europe. How did you do it early on? Did you just like because I think that's what, um, kind of scares off most people, right? Like starting, I guess. You know, podcast. This would be up in the at an advantage because we have a pretty decent sized audience. But someone who has no obvious right, like sure they can, you know, call up the most successful person they know and interview them, but, like, who's gonna listen to it? So how about it? How did you like deal with that in the beginning?

I think it actually started way, way before I started the podcasts and it was a function of me starting a company in Silicon Valley in San Francisco that the culture here is you go out for coffee with people and you talk about your idea on, then they introduce you to other people. And so it started when I was in Brazil, and I met my prisons business partner in Brazil. And then we had to raise money. So I came back to San Francisco and I started just reaching out to people. And I grew up in San Francisco, so I had my contacts in Tech. And so I started reaching out to people and just sitting down with him coffee, telling him about the idea, and they would introduce me other people. And then I'd go meet those people and then they would introduce me other people on it, go meet these people and they eventually, the goal is to meet a founder of a company who can either introduce you to their investors or meet the investors directly. Um, and so I found myself being introverted,

but then having to essentially go on a lot of one on one coffee, um, get coffee with people and talk about stuff and and so that that's where I really got the training for for doing the interviews. And then eventually, about a year and 1/2 ago, I was just like, Oh, I'm having really interesting conversations with people. I wonder what would happen if I just published these and see if other people out there They're interesting, sir, that in an offer? Yeah, and then took off from there. And then there's another element to where I was. I act. I ask quite a few questions on Cora.

Ah, and And they started paying people to ask questions on Cora. And I was one of the people that they're paying. So I was like, Okay, so there is There is a way to make money off of asking questions and then the podcast kind of like Okay, that's that seems to be the way

that I should go with it. Yeah, things, conversations kind of like making me just want to say no, Fuck it, there's there's probably a lot to be gained from, you know, interviewing people and learning from them. So

I think it's clear you think I think it's clear that you guys should do it because what, So, uh, came to mind while? Well, we've been talking is that you guys were really, really good at synthesizing information that you get from, uh, from podcasts into written word. And if you guys were able to do the same thing with the spoken word, you guys would

have something there. Yeah, yeah. Um, maybe. Well, I think there's there's really so many interesting people on. I guess you could kind of call them like second or third tier celebrities on Twitter. And I see you starting to, you know, pick away at them with, like, appeal, Gupta and, uh, quite a few people who have you got on your podcast like there's there's so many people, interesting people alert from It's easier than ever to make,

uh, make that connection like, you know, 55 even five years ago, like it would have been impossible to get way much harder to get computer games on your podcast. But you know, he's a direct message away nowadays,

and that's that. That's one of the things that surprised me the most is that I thought I would have to use my network that I haven't said a Silicon Valley, and I have not had to ask for one introduction like I have. It's all been based off of me cold. Calling people mostly on Twitter, sometimes on Facebook like and I would say 70% of the people say yes. Um, it's really interesting because all these things that I thought were problems and all these things that I thought would go easy didn't go easy like, I'm not making money on it yet. Uh, it's taken a while to get more popular and so like, but that doesn't matter, because I have hope all of these amazing benefits of like learning so much and like getting to talk to people were doing really interesting stuff and really kind of making really interesting connections and then also creating content, which now people are starting to say, Hey, that's really that's thank you for this And yeah, changing their lives. Yeah,

totally. There was There's a tweet I saw the other day was I think it's that, like maybe the version of Let's Get Coffee in five years from now will be, Let's go record a podcast and I like that kind of, you know, kind of sums it up

that also another thing I wanted that, which is I think that I used to go to in the same Nassim Taleb who's Nicholas, and I seemed to live. Always talks about in Black Swan on may be particularly an anti fragile about how it's really good idea to go to cocktail parties because, uh, then you can, um, open yourself up to black swans. Uh, I used to go to a party is a lot for that reason, which is that I could meet somebody who might have value our richest people interesting to talk to. And, uh, and then now I stopped going to parties. The podcast basically serves the same purpose. Like it's it's like it's like a cocktail party that's recorded like a party for interference. Yeah,

exactly. Yeah, I guess what I just like. One thing I've noticed is that good. Maybe maybe I'm wrong, But like all the time, you hear the subject of introversion or extra version brought up on these podcasts. And what a theme that I've noticed is that you know most of these type A people tend to be in traverse introverts, and I think it's interesting that I'm wondering why that is.

It's very common in Silicon Valley. A lot of the CEOs a lot of people who have done very well here, are introverted and I think it just has a factor of like, if you're more comfortable being on your own, then. Ah, a lot of people fear that time being on their own. But if you're not afraid of it than then it could lead to Cem. Cem diable Things being created? Yeah, totally. Well, cool. Is there anything that you really want my audience to understand about podcast notes about you or about about your life? What you've learned in the last couple months Anything you want, toe kind of express.

Um, so I guess first thing would be check out the site podcast notes dot or ge, give us a follow on Twitter. Subscribe to the email list. So, like every week, we with this in all these podcasts and then send it's like the top takeaways, um, b e mail. And, um, we'll tweet out things that we learn from these podcasts on Twitter. Um, in terms of me, my life like, I don't know, kind of like everything.

I do think that all of my habits you twisted everything up into that is something I picked up from the world of podcasting. So it's Zen interesting field, and you could. You could learn a lot from these people. A CZ we talked about. I guess we'll close it off to two, two things. I remember how I mentioned earlier that definitely pick up these pick up these boats and we'll just like, stick with me in the back of my mind. Got mixed up in their two things I've kind of, like, picked up. I wrote about this a while back. One of them was I think this was from Brandon Stanton on that team is of New York podcasts. Ellison to be said, if you think matter But how I was spending my time like,

what would I be doing? What would be most nourishing for me in any given moment? And combine that with something we meet, Safety said on a podcast for a while back, when you create one opportunity for yourself, oftentimes that opportunity will create more opportunities. So get off your ass and introduced. And I really thought about both of those. Like internally. When you combine them like, what would you be doing tomorrow? If you know, money was no object like, Well, if if if you could just, like,

spend your time and money didn't matter at all. What would you be doing? So, like, go do more of that. Like for me right now in my life, I think it's taking notes and listening, listening to these podcasts and distilling the knowledge in sharing them with the general public. So let go start a side project based off whatever you're interested in and who knows where it takes you to write. Like, look at your podcast, Stewart Like that. Like, you know, when you started it to the three years back, you didn't think of all the people that would allow you to do so one out when you,

you know, when opportunity creates more opportunities. So, yeah, I would combine those two things and, uh, get after it.

Yeah, that's that's totally true. And you said something about that earlier, too, And it reminded me of how I just kind of reached out t appeal on the last minute. Just like I saw something. You know, I have been following for a year. So and just one tweet. I was just like, Oh, do you want to do an interview? And I was not expecting him to say yes whatsoever. And then I do that interview. And it was one of the most powerful interviews and also one of the most popular interviews. It's like it represents about half of my downloads so far, Um,

and, uh and yeah, it's just, like, totally unexpected. And that had a profound effect in my, uh in the way that I view life. So, yeah, it's it's just like he said, it's really difficult to plan ahead with this type of stuff because it is serendipity at its core. Um, yeah. Yep, serendipity. It's so hard to it's just you can't plan for it.

And oftentimes, planning will take you away from it. Doesn't mean they should plan. There, is there, is there? Planning is a good exercise, but getting attached to the planet's too Probably problems.

Yeah, you're here. I'm waiting for you to get involved on your podcast.

So he said. He said he's down. He said he's interested. He's just really busy right now, so But he said he's gonna Come on. Oh,

awesome. Okay, thanks. I'm excited for that one. I haven't forward to

it. Well, thank you so much. And everybody check out podcast notes. These guys are doing some really cool stuff. Andi, I wish you guys the best of luck.

Awesome. Thank you,

sir. I appreciate the time. Thanks for turning into the show. If you liked it, please go ahead and find us on iTunes or Spotify and hit the subscribe button. Published each episode by Monday morning before your commute. So make sure to check in then. And this is a reminder to just own You're crazy because the challenges that this world will be facing over the next 100 years will require us to think way outside the box. As Hunter S. Thompson said, When the going gets weird, The weird turn pro. Thanks. Have a great day.