how you holding up?

Okay. Did you have to be no kid? Despite the they are coming to an end, but

I still think the world is coming to an end. Uh,

people have been clipped. I've been tested so many times. So yes is at least you're still. Yeah. I am grateful that good for that. Even you even there. What's happening? You label him continued back, and it's ah, it's a privilege to be able to do this. So, yeah, I've not been affected so much as I would say so. Yeah.

Okay. And, uh, what particularly you doing too? You know, protect yourself from contracting the coronavirus.

Okay. At least for me. For for a while now. Bean bean mostly watching from room. So I will not be traveling a lot. So clean, even a spread started. I don't I was not in currently is there? So I'm still self distancing. I'm washing. That's a load of hand dodged viol The panic So knows most. So

yeah, yeah, and it seems like a lot of people are just getting started on this concept of working from home. But you seem to have been doing it for quite a while, right?

Yeah, Yeah, it's funny. It's funny that these things are working, watching for Mama's Bean my life for for better mouth off my attitude. So I find I have trended on extension all what I've been doing. So it's it's really interesting to see how how these dinger boats. I think a lot of conversations you love pain after all of these viruses up downs, over walk structural work and how and how many companies will be no evaluating the options they need to have all the employees. Is it gonna be off? So yeah, it's quite interesting.

And since you know, a lot of people are still struggling with the concept of working from home, what sort of advice are, um, would you give them to enable them? You know, just fast to the concept, because we are going to be stuck up in the institution for quite a while. And I think people instead adjusting instead of waiting for things to get back to normal, which we we don't know if we would ever go back to how we used to run. Things are walk around things previously, so people need to adjust. What do particularly have for them to enable them do that.

I think I think first of all, industry depends the industry. I don't think I don't think it's possible for for everyone. Yeah, where everyone toe work for Mom. I thinkit's highly dependent on the type of work that you're doing s O. But I think, um, that the nature of jobs is also a balmy So your job Premarin moves. Ah, watching beyond borders or online intern, it's yeah, where they commit, like being most off most off. What you're going to see now from there is people be more inclined. Now, I think is to minimize the cost of that walking out,

saying you know So So so for any business that has bean predominantly on the Internet or using software or connecting people, I think such type of setup of businesses you will be will be inclined to go there. Did you don't lay in Wait so over me. For me it's a rod tools off communication festival. Oh, you have to know you have to know what do you need for your day today? Work the example Tools like Skype, which you're using right now. Yeah. Zoom zoom has actually taken off.

Yeah, it's a very fast. Yeah, a todo

Yes. So? So I think communication as well as able to communicate video call colleagues work made. So people in the workplace and via these communication devices a communication technologies. I think people should should try there more and should have more faith in

them. Walking, presenting zoom a few days ago here, eating with about 700 people who are on my dignity. Okay. I was no property. It was recorded. And people for for a very long kong someone half your age. Yeah, it's very fascinating. I don't think many companies like Julia, but in the end, So what? Well, online delivery. I mean it. 700 and add them also.

So you can be able to are being communication technologies and utilize the morning. I've been trying to centuries work form from from the office. Yeah. Also, the next happens off course. You have to be more extreme than the problem. You have to get help. Yeah, you can be very attractive. Yeah, very, very struggling. But But you You you try, for example. Did you know you work from home? They give me de la Go on,

then you keep on changing. I'm improving Bit on. Very large over and how people are reacting. Three. It's very simple to get started as long as they're done. Good. Well and intention from Yeah, and, uh, appears like the world economy is heading for a recession. Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah. How What are the chances off? Most especially the emerging economies navigating through this turmoil and,

you know, getting back on their feet. Do they stand a chance, or is it going to be a struggle that might wipe off a lot of value in some economies? Will others benefit from, you know, bailouts and stimulus programs that are being, uh affected by by their governments? I think I think you've been every tumble, like in unit succession or in any type of event like this. Yeah, we'll be casualties. I think most countries will be affected, You know, I think all Uh huh. So and and they're big players to be the big economy.

Us, UK, Germany, Japan. Of course, something happens to them for any damn something happened. The big economy, because of very the economy more interconnected for countries in Africa, like are you never double double that. You're going to be a recession and companies or suffer. I don't know. I don't know to be checks. Then I'm not miking Technical analysis of that wedding inevitable companies suffer and, uh, company that will not be able on because, you know,

people toe nearing walking, new economy and new technologies off a near is off doing a take back. Because I have you explained and take away before being completely over my taking more than a week for even in more than a month or so. Yes. No. One of the discussions very heated discussions that has been going on online is about the United States government's intention off printing $6 trillion. Yeah, yeah, to bailout corporations. And ah, uh, basically, try and salvage the situation. Um and, ah, crypto Tuta has bean very actively involved in attacking the government and and,

you know, central banks, the fed, Uh, in taking this particular measure, what are your thoughts? Have a crypt. Analyst are maybe someone who is on the other side of the divide. Okay? Ornately, it's very attracted towards the debate on Krypton. Going people, people, people

think like you think off. Crippled Twitter, Doomsday prophet there. Well, they could collapse that the

Yeah, I

I just But I think it's It's not that you're on the economy to collapse that, for now, the use case of Bitcoin the buds. It's interesting now to see the value to present a Bitcoin because they are two different school of economics here. The big Korean model is mainly based on Don't Change the money supply, but the other condition murder that is used by governments everywhere is manipulating the money supply. So yes, I think, I think, from from even a knowledge point of view and even form information point of view. It's interesting to see those two economic models and out they work. I think I think it's I don't think I don't think, Ah, the cook on the ass to collapse or the world currencies off toe completely collapse for trying to have a complete used kids. But like he's going to show more people that probably they need to be happily pretend are some some some heads. I got you these currencies because they can be printed out. Dog noi.

I saw someone asked that you you are government can print six trillion. Why hasn't to put back way spring forever? So I didn't such sad kind of a debate, even if people might see it as as Anakin Type of debate. I think it's ever the debate because if you don't invite listed a lot off a thinking or economic models and I think now thes decayed now I think finally show or the Bitcoin allow really a Eustis because I think any any any global investor our in the in the person was thinking about my micro microeconomics changes my last night it is now consider our being exposure to be not not like all of it. I don't think steal the will to see must migration to Bitcoin. But I think it will be It will be used as an edge because as more girl and prince money six trillion on this is these minutes in given to people like it's any other observe yet So yeah, big because that pathetic cause inflation down the road so and Bitcoin with the RV now just coming up, I think next next month No May

and then just the maid yet the help.

Okay. Yeah. So now as has now that event now, cousin, we see our Bitcoin reacts to that people people now start hedging or having an exposure to be going instead of dream off. Yet with the current inflation which is supposed to which you will come with these renting off mine

Well, the Bitcoin community has been talking a lot about mass adoption, mass adoption all day, every day. So, um, you saying that having Bitcoin using Bitcoin as a hedge is important? What is the valuable proposition for for the masses who now need to consider Bitcoin as an alternative currency are maybe a stall value. What? Why Why do they need to be going? Why should they, you know, buy some Bitcoin or hold some Bitcoin during this particular economic crisis?

I assume that's a normal user, not even like a hedge fund or even on investor, I think a cz an individual person who who understands Ah, that the more the more money that money is printed more fascinated inflation. Yes, And I'm not saying like the major currencies like the U. S dollar or the the the pound those for the for the actress foreseeable future, I think they will remain as as a group of currencies. But but as as these other currencies off less of developing countries, for example, continue to experience challenges, I mean, as a person living, especially in developing countries, it's good to think off Bitcoin as as as an exit Poland. As an option, tow the local currency goes well.

When you're exposed to beat canal, you're exposed to a global global markets and your notes and your your your network. You are assets. I know you decided. I mean by that The loco police is that I'm primitive a central bank. So I take as a person, as as an individual who's trying to understand the future or out to invest. I think wheat corn would be one off the value propositions based on none Manu palatable currency by even local and International Central Bank. So you know that there will be only 1.1 million because rates. But okay, now they're printing six trillion in a week. So yeah, I think I think if you're looking you're looking toe. They have pacified your investments, I think, yeah,

because oh, because wheat corn is not manipulate abo. It's censorship resistance. It's decentralized and it is a delivery nia 11 around. So I think it's good to have on exposure to it. And I under I don't think, uh, people say invests. What? What? You can be really leading electorate. Yeah. And I think as the person starting, I also wanted to commend will or in until at least understand how these cycles are going. But I think if you want to, their vast if I think it's one of their eternal there is because the has any investor says you have to our exposed to more than one type of NASA. So I'm not saying that sales tell you ours by Big Quinn. But even if you have a real estate would be good to have some something big corn something in stocks attacks, but has realized you're not overexposed,

you know, Um, well, on one side, Fiat currency has inflation and the manipulation from central banks and governments. But then, on the other side Ah, Bitcoin When you talk of manipulation, there's always been the fear that, um, crypto wills manipulate the price off Bitcoin. And, uh, inasmuch as no fee, it might be, you know, face infliction Every now,

then the volatility in Bitcoin now makes it, you know, the kind of possibly a weakness, uh, to it that would you no detail masses the masters from from considering it's a zoo hedge. How do you argue for for it, then if If you know it also has. There are their chance off being manipulated by wills and and then and miners who have large mining capacity.

He has totally agree. I don't I don't dispute that Zillah very volatile asset and that's why I didn't command Togo are in such type of an asset. But but I think I think it's true. It's true. It's, I think, the possibility. And there are many studies that are being conducted that it's possible that Wells when you played the Bitcoin press, yes, and I think it's true some extent. But I think I think Bitcoin is the starting point off discovery in tow. All these decentralized finance because once you try to understand the Value cup is not being given by Big Queen. Now, you can now understand the other products that I'm even ways toe edge your and your your investments. For example, once now you start stand Bitcoin is being used in these weigh in this another is. Then I can start to goingto things like Defy thereby.

You cannot even is taking your coins instead of the term, or even doing any other type of investments within the space. I don't care if it's the only way to invest in Bitcoin is by buying and holding. The other is divine auto trader you can be. You can you can invest in companies that they're they're extinct, that are doing this type of business. I think Bitcoin is more one ideology than just buying buying off the currency. The moment you start understand, you understand that this is our new world. Oh, my nuts, that is coming up. So no. Okay. From there from there. Based on now, your landing, you can have decided not to apply how to apply your skills are out to apply your knowledge, your learning They want to attach yourself somewhere within these decentralized finance ecosystem.

Yeah, um it's good that you brought up that decentralized finances. Kind of I don't know if it's a it's a hype Tom of the moment. Um ah, a lot off. You know, crypt enthusiasts are discussing it they're considering it. So maybe do expound on it a bit. What is decentralized finance? And how does it differ from other alternative models?

Okay, I think this interest by nuns Ah, as is a concept that has come out of alternative cryptocurrencies, the main one being ethereum. Yes, a little. Since the launch of you, Tater material was has been dogged as the global smart contract platform enabling enabling people to interact with each other without using middlemen like and then that now launched the I see you move. Yes, there by anybody. Anybody from any part of the world would have a new idea and then make us much contract launching in the Internet. And then people fund raise it and then they're given Hawkins. So okay, from from from there from the ice, you heIp end from 2017 after I settled. No people. Now I think started looking at now is that you can utilize your your big or yo yo your crypto currencies appear from just apart from just buying and selling off Bitcoin all these assets.

So I think centrist pronounce is the idea which is still being Thinkit's. Start strutting so I can't say that it's it's the end product ID, but it's the idea that it's possible for anybody in the area. As long as you got access to Internet ID, you can now find non services and finance. I mean in the accessing alone or getting a loan taking or driving your detail acids online and then used them to give our pass on. They can you can. You can lend another person because you said so they The idea is that, for example, you have one big queen and I'm not a very good trader. Not everybody's a trader, and I'm not very good at timing the market and powers can again from this Bitcoin. So if I now comes in various ways, for example, cannot become, you can give these one Bitcoin to a reputable It's a platform or like stains,

then the land that they give other people that Bitcoin and they are not bishop from meat, For example, you aren't interested in me and give out let's say one bit going to this platform, then you are like then it wasn't final. So at the end of that period, you have your Bitcoin plus interest. Yeah, Okay, in that In that way, you're not really a trader, but you just just participating in this place, it is lost. So now the concept of now, like Cryptocurrencies, moves just beyond the tokens or collectibles to become a real. That's why it's called ghetto ass It.

So I think Now you Bitcoins in your in your wallet or your Miriam or any other currencies, you can be able out in the stick them on interest or land with what other people or even do any other type of activity and use it as as as collateral. They said OK, the same way the same, the same way you would use, like your land or real estates as collateral for a loan. You can use your Bitcoin, for example, as collateral. If you don't want to sell these Bitcoin, you can you can use it as collateral and then get a loan. And then when you've been that long to get to be going back on them than that,

Yes, yes, yes, just

proceed. So the advantage of this is that its global, it's not limited to 11 place. Anybody in area with access to Internet can be able to access such a service.

Uh, well, one of the challenges that the blocks and community has been facing is ah, issue of government regulations in most of the, you know, platforms that have been built or being built, um, does decentralized finance Will it? Does it seem to be facing the same challenge? Are is it completely autonomous from government interference or intervention?

I think it it fizzes a lot of problems because of regulations, because, ah, any any type of any type of comus that takes place that and there's exchange of goods and services. There must be some type of regulation there. And I think, honestly speaking, that would be then a job in Durant's toe mice adoption off this type of defy products because at the end of at the end of the day, these people are trading. Ah, don't miss Sherrod in certain countries, for example, yes, these countries of parades with the laws that govern money and an equal mass her so a d end off. At the end of it, you might You must involve lawyers, and the law must be ableto either doubt his type of products or these products are made in such a hurry that they reflect the institution,

the ground. So I think I think that's that's the major that has the major challenge. Have anything going forward for different. And that's different from Bitcoin. Because Bitcoin itself is not time down to toe a pass on my individual. It's exists Marilee online, and it's a way. But it's it's not an act. It's not tied toe something outside the Bitcoin network, and that they are. I think what makes it interesting because you can use it as of the as I will percent money exchange exchange value across the Internet but then defy At some extent, I think it involves real loud risk. And because you're you give your lending, lending and borrowing at some point, I think it might must involve reward regulations, and I think our navigates that will be interesting.

Okay,

I don't What do you think? Do you think? Do you think about that?

Well, uh, the moment I'm treating it as a zone of now, just as another, you know, um, crypto or Blockchain service of platform that is being built and yet to really experiment with it or go deep into studying it. So really, I wouldn't have any strong opinions about it. But being a Blockchain enthusiast and evangelist, same time haven't really ventured into studying it are looking deep into it. But I think it is. It has. It has its place at some point in the ecosystem. So for me right now, I'm just adopting a wait and see attitude towards it. Ah,

while, uh, you know, we see the ecosystem of, you know, the entire concept transition into something that can be utilized by a lot of people.

Yeah, s o ganso, it's It's already done. Cincinnati.

Okay, so you've bean very actively involved in reporting about Blockchain and Cryptocurrencies in Africa using your platform, Queen Louise, how has it been so far? And also particularly from an African perspective. How's how's blocked in and crypt adoption and from the experience? And how Where exactly do you think it's going ahead to in the future? Yeah,

I think I think the industry has grown. Ah, a lot since since I came in this place. So we started Corner is at around 2017. Olly Olly to 2017. So, um, previously what we had ah had possibly defend and contacts between the end there. But I I did not understand it very well until the ink around 20 2016 is when I had up my I don't what exactly it couldn't can do. But my program was before I started, I didn't know even out to bite our woods was the right procedure off investing, Big queen Because I remember them that time I wanted to buy at around 1000 or so. Oh, and then a few days later, it was, I think 2000 e I I was very confused. What type of glass It e was missing. $1000? Yeah,

I don't know yet. Yeah, that seems you at a very early stage, right? I

didn't understand. Like, why? And awards whites off. What's happening? I'm in over my earliest plans. Yeah, one of married friends told me It's like an investor, but global. That doesn't make me. Yeah, and action trying. Somebody tryingto help me understand what Bitcoin is. So it took me off, I think two or three encounters between 2017 2016. But I did not understand it. So you can imagine.

Now they do. Kishan got that is that those there and when fire, not now 2017 is when I finally cracked a words or the least bit critical and there were new understood it because I was writing about it. I got somebody who told me they want to and I top a boat. What What is Bitcoin and out book and invest in it So that now from me, Togo and recites even more for myself on dhe. That's That's our we realized. This is in the photo knowledge and ah, with theorize that this is an opportunity to try and write content and educate people about Bitcoin blocks in on the crypto currencies. Now that's all coming. So that was the Russia now starting point, and it was two people. And sure, that's no commerce, that you become a trader for you to be both brain the essence. So that's that's when we start the website and then,

ah, bye. Good luck. The boom was just getting started because a few months after after we reached the website there with their boudin was fully fact so big kind, I think presents toe 2000. 10,000, 17,000. These are the good times so Every day you take your young wallet, it's up. It's up to. But you didn't know because I still I can. I still do not know why it was Graham an evil in the you can be more again. So explained someone there that is a really little. So it was. It was now after after I think the 2018 after the border now is over is yes, it's sure now that I'd like to really understand the the scope and how big and good could happen to the industry.

So they're deep in tow, trying, tow, connect with many people as possible and trying to look for projects that are Kanye or in this place in Africa. The good thing is, with the Internet, it's isn't connect, so just need toe join communities, people to contribute. And that's That's how we started. So we had guests, guests, articles contributing the projects. We are so did the one ones. What is Bitcoin out by the queen and even for me myself, tell me, understand more because apparently you understand things more tryingto teach someone else. So that's that's how now I came to even understand the bigger the biggest cook on this base

there, and so far from your interaction with the community that you've been able to build. Um, do the readers are the people who consume your content, understand the implications of what this place has to offer? Um, or do they just see it as a passing cloud, so to speak?

I don't think everybody has really crossed the our and our these opportunity that is there because, ah, from my interactions on communities online and offline. Yeah, still ill perceived as a risky, volatile experiments, which I don't I don't blame anybody like that. It's difficult. It's difficult for a layman to understand, or even anybody anybody outside the crypt US Fair to understand. When people say this is the New World, it's going to take over people. People outside think in clear. You were crazy, and it's not someone to happen because it's not easy to start. It's not easy trust, even even from let's say,

even my own people. People were interacted. Not everybody. Oh God, the value, the value proposition off Bitcoin. So I think outside outside there they would stop the booze and the crypto twitter. It's still no stay well known outside the corps, the corps communities. I think you don't. Do you still take some time?

Okay. Um well, as ah, startup founder in Africa, I was going through one of your platforms. Chris, the curator did come. And one of the fascinating items that I got to read there was your opinions on startup culture and an innovation in Africa. Um, can you can you expound on what your thoughts are? Are what you've been able to see in in in Africa, uh, with the round house and the kind of businesses that have been trying to build the kind of business models that they adopt and some of the failures that they've bean, uh, the head and how to me to get to me to get them.

Okay. My my experience is being a lot of mixed, so Ah, I would say weeks bag goes from outside. Come on, Signed. I think the only thing off start up courage. And it took your ship. Especially looking from from an outsider going in, huh? You think it it's all rosy. And it's actually really easy because, you see, guys are nine. Doing all these idea is getting funding Have you seen this talk about race under video? Is old goat. So,

yeah, what? Never outside looking in, I think it's It'll be easy because the Internet, the Internet and especially social media like tweet operatives that when you follow these, these other startup founders investors the make it look like it's It's very easy to raise. I counted 1,000,000 but there are those Are those are those actually wrote the media? That's not the media. That's not how the just most of the most actually, most of the cops fail. Well, yes, there is no record. Oh, there's no It's very odd for you to have, ah,

YouTube or talk or a medium Posts about how our startup filled. It's our there's money out there expanding our there. So it's very easy to see as if it's it's, um, easy undertaking, especially in Africa. So trying to reconcile, trying to reconcile that difference between starting a company in Africa and what's happening like so converted, it's a process. It's a process for me to took some time to understand. Okay, these are very different markets. So, yeah, what is working there? I don't work here,

so just even If it means even if it's just a new online or I saw throughout this idea, you have to think very clear. Very, very. Where about what is it things that you're doing a solution? Our liabilities? Where your customers do you have a competitive advantage? Do you have a lead? You anything toe start from? So I think it's from from my own experience how I would advise people to being very, very clearly about the filing, the Michael proposition I know, being scanned and based on the stories from Silicon Valley. They can't becoming encourage you, but the market very different. So you must really think deeply about the problems. So,

yeah, do you think a lot of these startup found us in Africa imitating Silicon Valley like a copy paste model adopting

the R. Yeah, it's true, but I don't think I blame I blame anybody. Try tries to that, because I mean, that's the whole idea of endocrine. Russia must try something faster and seen blocks. But I think what What is not clear is that, Ah, just because something has worked there. It'll like here and their ability to rebound and learn as fast as possible and then do it again. That's I think that's That's why it's very difficult. I don't think many founders in Africa who are starting up have the line. Giulio area largely off trying another very many times or one set of failures. Then go start about our status. Madonna get funded.

It's no. The ecosystem is still not very accommodative toe fact because it's still growing. So I think it's It's It's very It's very It's very okay for I don't think it wouldn't mean a copy tastes whatever as what Somewhere else sometimes might work sometimes. But most times you find the Mourners are completing this. And I had to love that.

The under I have a hard way. Okay, Um, So finally you have any particular announcements you'd like to to listen. Okay.

So ah, doing Yeah. Yeah. Parent would call the number. You are, Ellen. This encrypted. So they're trying. They're trying to expand their product, offering toe markets in Kenya and Africa. So working in them toe to see what is in which you can introduce some of the products. They are really good. Next, like krypton on crypt. Okay. You can easily buy buy and sell electrical currents is on the platform. But for me,

and what I'm most excited about is there, there, there on one program you can own up to 8% or even 12% instead. Bitcoins when his take on their platform the writing, it would be very attractive for my can't said Inc in Africa also, but currently there they're they're actually product at their forecast under his cuts. That's a getting Lisa, not only seconds in the okay, and you don't think u u K but they also in us and single. So OK, I think they're trying to drive utility off cryptocurrencies. And I think it's a very

good ground to cover. And so that is crippled. What's called night contended?

Calm. Yeah, Okay. The arable by love. Remember, you can easy. Don't hold it. If anybody expresses a problem, they are pleased. They can just shoot me a message on telegram. But I will announce more information as they're working. You're still working on the Why not? Did too.

Okay. Um yeah. Thank you very much, Chris.

Thank you so much, Frank. And, uh, is this living my first office? You broadcast

and yeah, it goes away. Yeah, sure. It's been going around Asia. Thank you very much. It's been a great pleasure hosting you. And, uh, I think we'll have to do this again and talk about more things in this space and whatever is happening. And we gets to launch these new project as well.

Yeah, you definitely will. Keep in touch.

Okay. Thank you. Goodbye.

Thank you so much. Thank you.