way are five. This is one that's usually introduce again. That is also I'm Rick.

Natalie partner in part, is entering fun size. The product isn't fun, says Anthony. Partner and experience record.

Um, so today we're gonna talk about this, maybe touch on some stuff that's been going around before we get into. That said, I found six, like through Renner's There is Oh, your stuff. People were Do you like making money off like the the videos that they make of these, like Just cure? Really? Yeah. Get their name out there, get shock value from people. Yeah, I mean, that one had, like,

three screens. It's just like there's just one advice and had three screens because there's one screen and then shot like a laser projection on the other side. And you could, like, swipe the screen for the cats. Cats. Oh, yeah, I feel like that would cost so much money. Charities. Yeah, and plus, you have to have it laying on something for you. It's long enough to have one project, but I have to. Yeah,

but you got one. Yes. I mean, it has to be a largest. Says the rumors. Three exes, the rivers are usually true.

I mean, even if they didn't want a great one, they're being pressured by the rest of market took. Grace is gonna compete with Sam's with Parker Booth. Note. Note.

What I'm curious to know about the new design is that it looks like it's, um, in our version of the first, 1st 1st Yeah, doesn't like the way it's like,

Do you think they're? Do you think they test it out? That I had here, designed to implying something means that we're talking about this room

yet it feels like a first. I flatter. Yeah, over there. His history

for your iPhone users. How do you feel about a longer screen versus a wire spring to me? That the only reason why I wanted a reason Wes Wes Chandler is that Justin readability in the side of this type are wearing a wire screen a little bit better for my terrible eyesight. You guys feel about longer is a wire. I mean, at this point, I think why

we're making more sense. I don't think they going longer man like it's already like turn it sideways like I mean, like what? Why? Well, Children your mind, you know,

prove that, Harry, I Yeah, that was That was our way out of this one. Was like,

Oh, yeah, I got it this way. Uh, yeah, but I think about one thing, the closest they have to make the wine industry is just no way around. It be, You know, they can't go taller. They have to be, you know, stay relevant and compete with, like, these giant android screen coming out. Do you think? What are they gonna do with all the current maps?

Because Andrew was built. This sort of like, yeah, liquid time. Things got multiple screen wins. But iPhone has always only been like the 3 20 with right, you know, 40 win. So what's gonna happen? All these absent are out there now. Like they have to be retrofitted Thio from station. Will they just do the whole, like, black borders on the side? I mean, will,

That's way. Yeah. They really do box themselves in. Pretty pretty I'm gonna do. That's it. Um See, you android screens. They just

now. Spotify has always been on the Andrew, but it's always kind of become me this this new design that they're rolled out is one of the most beautiful absent ever seen. Not just one, Andrew, but ever. Really? I mean, in my opinion, it blows. Are you out of the water? And it blows its iPhone companion. But if you actually look at the Spotify Sze eyeless products in their products there, you can tell that the adult did not. Money invested is equal across each platform. And actually, there's really no difference all that much in the way of product looks or acts or had the quality values

equal. Well, I will say that I really dislike the Spotify desktop, but I saw a preview. Something like this.

Yeah, yeah, shots pretty. It's pretty cool. Really, really sleek. That's it? Yeah. I mean, it kind of the, you know, because it makes us Rto owns this sort of start white and I think they're trying to start dark like hell over. Made it with first. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that family happy. I mean, not sure about switching back to Spotify, but I'm looking at

how she thinks the design factors into user making that choice. I think it's

constant. Honestly, Spotlight is a really good job off organizing things by mood and just like set playlists that curated by people. I mean, I've never ventured off. It's Aria, like if they have anything that's curated by the actually would make it. But I think I think Spotify kind of just range right now. Curation off music, that music discovery I mean, I mean, just to kind of play Devil's advocate to that. I'm pretty like, for me, that kind of music that I want to listen to. There's more of it on Spotify special. Like the way actually are you because the audio on the iPhone For me,

it's kind of frustrating because I don't think this it wasn't designed for someone that was mobile,

right? Because I was on my phone at a stop sign and I want to play

play list. Have tap at least four times against Texas Tiny.

They should seriously consider doing what you monitor doesn't have a specific drying recipe. You just get away and buttons get could be a very large I can be more

with that. Well, I mean, he doesn't agree with us drunk wife like a plane, and you want a stream there be like a play or a warning. Driving like browsing north. They're probably the unless you get the only thing is like a voice control. That would be I

supposedly It's like the Flappy Bird killer, so I heard. But I've been playing

for the past week and it's so frustrating. It looks great, though. That's where Flappy Bird was. Simple, simple Thio. It's just yeah, trauma. Yes, like blue and purple school. That's

crazy about some of the most addictive games. This is just a simple yes, and they're typically like the most victim. Games air. The more the distance games, right, get those. Those tend to be the most like things like Temple Run. I'm still me.

I, um So what kind of shit? Now I'm going to be talking about anything, which is just just simply design. There's a lot to it, you know, We're talking about maybe just discussing. I haven't episode where we just talked about, like design tips and tricks and stuff, you know, that's that's cool. I think that's useful to people, but also like something that's maybe a little bit more meaningful is just like that moment when you get you know, past whatever barrier, just have like this time to design and you're just like in the middle of it. And you're just like, experiencing it.

And it is, You know, people flow. Is that the whole psychology and is flow as you people that time, Mrs Angell getting enough flow of inspiration. And then we'll talk about, you know, some specific tips and tricks and stuff that we like to use and exploring other environments. And when she designed, maybe that's the geographic location that your hand is the software, your design. Yeah, that's what I want to ask you guys about organization because sometimes, like organizations or leads what I do, I wanna design Photoshopped files, organized stuff that sometimes I just sort of forgetting design.

But yeah, let's get started. So flows like this moment getting Thio when you are suddenly in. It's like a great time doesn't seem to matter of just like in the Zone D s. I mean, certainly everybody's been thing I started talking about. This was that Natalie actually said something on Twitter last week or the week before. You're working way and you didn't you know, we don't want toe, you know, promote the lifestyle where you were late all the time. You know, you burn stuff like that, but there was something I had to do it and you describe. Remember what? You're working on.

The slides. Oh, yeah, that just just like, yeah, I know. For a while, I explored

its best. The craziest thing about people that are probably know how hard it is to come to work every day. Expected Thio just generate free. And, you know, maybe that's why, uh, funds is working out Well, because we had kind of a work situation because I think we don't know that we may not be created, that they immediately just need Thio go home or go get a beer instead. Come back later for or or planning for, because that you might get into that flow at 6 p.m. You don't want to stop like well, you know, when you're finally in the zone, you know that, you know? So it's kind of hard because,

you know, we're not bankers. We don't know where 8 to 5 year paperwork, that's it. Like we have to find our lives are all structured around trying to be creative.

Yes, is that you can't really actually manufacture flow like it's not there. You can't just like me. Can't be like flipping a switch. You there, you know,

because then you're compromising what you're working on, like just kind of forcing it rather than just kind of letting it happen.

Yes, the science, this probably somewhere else. But I remember a quote from that were Don Draper was stalking Petty early in the series about this. She couldn't crack like this on issues like can't you know, it's there, you find whatever, and I think what he said something along the lines of think about deeply and then forget it. And then that's what I see is when you started playing you so love yourself in where we're working on it. Think about it like I told you. And he's like, you know, forget it. And then they just like natural. Hey, Woz, I know that's something that you guys,

but have you ever like, dreamed of a design solution. Do you like Oh, God, Yeah. You told me about that happening to you. Yeah, it was. Well, maybe it happened too, but it was a Windows product that we're talking about boards and I was gonna put it on. Cem

one time I have lodgings where I'm where I'm trying to solve the rial project that I'm working home. But I realize it's fake and wondering were actually woke up with a relatively complex solution for a very complex life wire framing problem. Really weird all the time working on big projects. And then you know that you like ours, e I have a question. I know the answer to this, but it might be our only guys. But how do you know how hard or easy is it to get in float with the flow and open work environment, like we have a fun size versus the way it used to be over with questions. I mean, I think before I had a hard time finding into the flow because just trying to get ideas, bouncing ideas off people was it was tough. I mean, we were just all kind of clothes and kind of separated from each other, right? You know, the only way we can really talk with studio chat,

you know? I mean, that helped a little bit about the same time, like, you know, getting that energy just really helped a lot. You're really gonna get into the flow. But then there's times to like, especially working on conceptual things. I kind of just kind of want I sometimes get out. Get that Someone like premature looking your street. Yeah, yeah. We don't look anyone. Drop box. I have a particularly hard time getting into flow,

at least in a workspace. The workspace is awesome. So much positive. Intervene. But since I'm working on every project you're like, I struggled to find five or 10 minutes to focus on anyone things. I feel like I am work on figuring I get great an environment working which

you just float, you know, lately, I mean, that's gotta be really hard for you because there's 10 people here. Everybody's like, needs your attention about, like, an issue, our questioners. But besides that, you didn't like if you are, like secluded in your home office or something like that, we still have, like, a 1,000,000 instructions with what's on your screen with popping up on your screen. What's coming?

Yeah, with your phone. But we will discover recently, and I just wave my settings and I was like, I just go dark for a few days off all my notifications and I just hold There's so many interruptions I have that I do not need I realized I'm Celeste. You start liking happen It's like I can send you notifications I always capture care from now Oh, now, like the fall No way. Why do you need Why does force where you tell me

the exact math You know every articles and then talk about how even a simple one minute her human distraction can cause you Thio take 15 to 30 minutes,

Thio Yeah, The other thing I really I have actually you're recording. Do you can do not disturb on your iPhone. You're actually here on your desktop as well, which is great. It's how scary think like that's something but each day on recess. Yeah, you have Me too. What about what about inspiration, Like you getting any girl? That's like a conceptual design phase. You know anyone like these in research and stuff where you used to, like in a spotter? My visually

I like looking at magazines thio, ideas for aesthetics

for digital problems. But they did magazines.

No, you know, just magazines like wire or you know New York Business Week or something like that, like just to get, because you look a little like corner of an article or something and you see, like the intersection of an image in tax and it kind of gives me like a It's almost like looking at, like, pages of words

and you feel like just is like mind shift. Just putting here eyes. And I like into another media prints and sort of like helps makes the other media digitally more approachable. Yeah,

I mean, I think I did the same thing was organizing to Esquire geek. You like bait bait and they have really great. That's a huge inspiration for me and lay off lay outwards anywhere, especially ministry right and so mean with editorial position. Yet exactly how things were laid out in Texas. It's shown me things like how it's treated space. It's just principles. I think it's a little too easy to look at other products and think within those boxes. Yeah, but it also kind of like I miss like making mood like Fly was like actually cutting things out of magazines and making it aboard those kind of things that may be that when you're a kid or art school or whatever, but yeah, that's interesting. Uh, we should revolution or Maxine's. What do you guys look for? That's right.

I know. Oh, my computer off. Yeah,

Yeah. I would like to say that I get inspired, but, you know, walking on the beach or something. Yeah, I don't. I said for my computer, and I usually, like, look at what other people are doing would get having my Berries that get cold websites, and then I step away, you know, to see you kind of like Go Coker Baker. Whatever.

See what sticks and then come back to the computer like, Okay, this is

my vision when I'm on a tree. So on that note, like when you guys were creating original ideas, do you just kind of free form? It would like to see what you come up with. Or do you write like, do you write a little miniature bulleted list of goals? You want to accomplish that house you plan for the concept that you're trying to create or verses Let

I later personally, like I try and find, like, an emotion or something, and like gaining traction with it. Like when I actually designed for the shop or whatever like that, you know? Yeah, I had a little sort of go with that, and then I'll start to consider, Like, what is this thing? Does this mean a little light bashes? Start writing down what? I was trying a little traction. A static first. Yeah.

He also talked about, like, zone where you would be. What about actually being is me? I know there's a lot of different platforms out there or not. You know, design applications, right? Way talk about sketch a little bit. We've all tried recently. What? You're specifically for chances. That's what we mostly use. Um, mother, like,

Okay, here we go. Over this one. Weighs the number one keyboard. Shortcut way. Definitely use

all this stuff and say, I know, maybe three. I just don't use it. I use that. Yeah, I'm just on this old school like that. I don't know why. I just It's not just soda shop. I just have never taught myself to learn many keywords workers for anything, Anthony. Still, instead of ships

entering to commit a text layer, he will go and use his mouth's to go all the

way to the top. Right corner. Click on it, but and I use that meeting you and everything. Yes, I don't have much to add to this that you

really have to keep for file, like navigating my computer and use outfit. And I just start typing. I used a little responsible design.

What? I watched you get that familiar today. There was, like, a simple key commanding you had for a lining thing on ex wife cornice. And I can't tell you how many times I spent, like zooming in and moving a key line all the way. Right on.

That's That's

Yeah, that one. Probably. I would imagine it with the amount of time you guys been Photoshopped. That one, Commander, their privacy hours off. You know,

you So you're talking about actually, I knew how it I think bush out, create clouds, properties, properties, fella. And, like automatically says that word, you know, points of origin. All that assumes that the word is top. Which is what I always said that the's interesting. Like linearly. Like I read top to bottom left, right? It seems that's right there. So you can just say ax zero y zero. Just just type in the That's interesting fast.

The next time I'm working in a mobile APP product, I'm gonna try setting the top coordinate to write on the status of our way.

That's cool. That's interesting. I used shift July, actually that, you know, just pushing the air of yeah, just selected will do something over. Right. Pixar, Chef, over 10 minutes. So get you move something. 40 pixels. You know, a

way to move it, nudge it any other way. Increments, like, say, 100 pixels.

I was telling me that it could be that set the SEPTA nudge to a certain incriminating shit. And and I think they took it out of this version. Change. Like you used to like to change wishes. Okay, here's another question. Design a lady, like specifically, more focus on meagre rations were What do you guys have, like, favorite? Let's go, chief. The sources that you use, you know? I mean, there's markets out their stuff phrases.

I think we all probably used t hand lattes that there would be implementation for less spaz get started on that basic framework in there. That all the time. Yeah, I mean, um, is there anything

the thing about the team black stuff is I think, what used to be really useful, but now the limits of their so far with no holes, all the stuff that they have a native Yeah,

you know, what I mean is totally like he like a list or something. You want to modify You started by nothing. Candidates you start with, like grabbing some assets from there, like moving, moving on from that. That's how you do it. Recently, I Leslie start filing exactly certain days. I'm always using Go on patterns. I Tennessee like how people treating thoughtless And there's a west right, Like it's like the PR team. Like no valves,

P T T E R s. And they have retina readiness and screams. I can kind of go in a measure like you guys look at you.

I first started into mobile because I was really, like, embarrassed. And I was like making an assumption that was like, an obvious thing, that mobile designer Centerview. I would just like whatever it was like. I was, like, the biggest like your mobile apple Facebook, Twitter, foursquare, discreet, no, hold us into for a shop and measure. How far did they do? They let their dry and go down?

You know how far they like. How tall are there? Yeah, exactly. Like like something. We'll see something that's that's pretty small, but actually works. Oh, yeah,

That seems like a really good way to train people that haven't really taken her there. Voterstop skill in mobile Right where everything's right now and you're always confused. One pixel store to fix a stroke. How big. Like, how does a drop shot Meteo look, Ryan Retina screen on this all the time. You don't even like it's been a while since I've done anything, and I kind of started getting back into that. Like trying all of all the things that I used to know a little tips and tricks and knew something strange. Like when I first started designing for the retina. To get one

pixel stroke, you have to use a toothpick sel stroke. Yeah, but things have changed to wear. Like you could use one pixel stripped. Great. Yeah. So it's like a little bit more people have screens. Yeah, being that you know, like to actually see what one pixel on this. This didn't screen

so basic. But I mean, I think if you're designed for mobile on you, when you're you can do this. You really need to be looking at everything you're designing on waste. You could waste a lot of time and money. Five trying to finish your design and then looking at first looking at the first green rust, right?

Yes, you? Yeah, it was cool, cause for sketch, have a seat called schedule Mirror. So when I was a wire frame, I can actually see it on, you know? Yeah. Skill. Oh, yeah. Just like gesture. Right. Like you're now left, right?

What is it? Stopping up, down, get, see? Two different canvas and then left and right. Gets you to the different heart boards on that Kansas. So that's the cool thing about. I mean, there's a lot of stuff about sketch, but what they always drew crazy about four shop is that you are one cancer time. One issue one Candace and sketch has as many as you want, right. It's

really awesome to be able to look at your mock ups and a Siri's so that you can make a decision. One spring see how it affects the screen before and after. You know, I really us will never believe that anything could really get Photoshopped run for its money. But after seem sketch, if there's one product that I think could it would

be that, I mean, it's definitely the top contender. I says it well, for most cases you want exactly. I mean that that's a thing that is actually in the photo shop have going into that Shots and industry standard for Web designers, for mobile designers, for photographers, for all sorts of different things. You know, photo manipulation, stuff like that. So it's like this one tool that's supposed to be perfect attacked. That train right here is like sketches little bit more focused on my interface interfaces.

I actually discovered it, but apparently there's ways to take your design. Your wife designed straight from sketch writing X code, right, like all kinds of style getting tools you can kind of see there on the way and a lot of things we we do that a lot of time sketch. That's pretty easily I mean, just a wire framing what we like now that I have used for wire framing, not visual design. But with the really interesting thing is that four people now incisive, used for wire framing. Two of those four people have never created a wire from their wife. And the quality of the result looks like a pro. Did it? I was really impressed with just the refinement we used to use Kino. We created all of our own. You a library of that are pretty much done with, you know,

ever seen. Wow. But what do you think Sketch would do if Adobe approached him and said, We'll give you $20 million for that right now just to shut it down? Actually, I mean, do you Do you think that, like we all know, photo shop is like one of your own? Like the big question? I have some of the smaller destructive tools is will that if I take the time to learn them, will they be around

two years? You know, this is very interesting. Like I get some, uh, given really on this, but I do wish special. Just stop the reason The reason is because I feel like they already got a little too far in the wrong direction. and that is like file compatibility and stuff like that. Like when we first words try started trying to sketch you. Natalie were designed that that's an awesome stuff. He wanted us to collaborate on sketch files, but, like we couldn't translate those into PS ps. So, like in order to recreate something in kissed ese which developers wide or something, something with that,

like we would be like, There's no like export sp sp. There's no change ability at all. That's really frustrating. They, like Adobe has tons of, you know, huh? You know how many years about sketch? She was a folder structure that's affiliated this one file with the SEC? Open it. You have everything but you look behind. It's like there's a weird Yeah, but I'm saying, like I feel like there's a spirit of innovation. Like everybody has realized that shop is not like the end All be all we should have some tool that's specific before screen S o I s special.

Just like your way better get by. This is worse. I think it's not. It's not to me is not a killer yet. It's on its way. My person is just

I just don't see why Adobe couldn't take. You know, a lot of things that sketch is doing is borrowing from adobe products. That concept of canvases and things like that, don't you? You have all this, right? All we need to do is build something for

fireworks. I actually really like fireworks, but I like that they were like, Yeah, I was getting, um so I want them to Dimension would be pretty cool. T started express a little bit. It's just like using changing, like your mindset stepping out of for a shot just because do something different and see a way where you come up with a school. You have suggested that we both project inscription. He did it.

It was it was interesting that workflow for me was it was just a little John because yeah, it was like, I'm jumping into this without even research like the hot. I just really wanted to see what sketch is all about. And for me, it was just the workflow. Like I was just I'm just so used to the hockey, something like that. It's just I can literally just dream in photo shop, like I right. I understand where everything is and with sketch Just jumping into that just kind of figuring out, like where things are in that hole at home and you slide for for, like, property and things like that. But I just thought that was just a little bit too much. Rather than having I have everything just gonna lay down just a click away There doesn't need to be animations get

to the next to get it To get to the next war is

so Oh, you know, we did that concept thing And if it just it just took twice as long for me. But first, Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think Did you

feel like I have lice and things that you are happy that had you know what this is? In some ways,

the artwork thing is it's just awesome, Like I used to. I used to be in design all the time. It just It just felt natural that this copy

e one object like a hair like Sammy. Yeah, like that would be like one element that changes within that. They just changed the one. Enter it with me everywhere. You know,

I haven't gotten that far, but I mean, from what I've seen from all the sketch Father off looked like people post Honorable, you're able to do that kind of looks like smart objectivity. So let me ask you guys a question, because I'm not in design As much as you guys are realized, learning any fool like that could potentially take twice as long. But I also realize that the work that we do in photo shop is just a suggestion for a developer. Unless we get in a coat like, Would you rather like field? You're really quick and give an engineer or something that says, Here's what it could look like or would you rather take twice as long to use a tool where you can actually control with the finished product?

I just feel like that there's there's there's a whole life thinking when sign works like design in browser, have you ever seen It's basically like somebody who's good at my development would just skip the whole photo shop phase straight. And when they're done design, they're done developing at the same time. This way, faster. I heard a podcast one time by company. I see. Yeah, uh, they the this guy drunk, Vincent said. This thing I always identify, remember that about designing a browser. This will be like the mobile design process. We like extra, basically put it together,

he said. It's like form shop, like the design that I've done. This is sort of like I don't have a soul as much, you know, like an infection. You have time to think about the other parts of it. You're just thinking about how it looks and personality. That was like

way. I mean, think about the things that some of these tools automate, like for examples, like a clip of one button. And all of a sudden you have all your assets radio right, without, like manually creating them. I mean, just think about, like all the amount of time it goes into just prepping your phone work for handoff.

Definitely. There's a missing step between, like, design being complete and they get it implemented by I wish we could figure out what that

starting around have you guys with me that during the asset on

it, if you work for you. I saw this. There's something more like the single. This seems like doing the animations and like we can do them. Like what? Neil's. We're getting animating uses after effects, too. You're a strange idea, but then, like it's not as if, like the developers go in after effects. Team used the animation that he created, half still basically recreated. And that's why I wish we had, like, designing. Then I give this like, doesn't

I wish someone would build a tool college King Could we could do in animation and grab it? Engineering could implement would be exactly the speed that you want. Yeah, you know, it's the person like I mean, really, it's true. You're not doing development. You're handing your work off to someone hoping that they will implement it with your vision and also at the same time, kind of playing doubles. Africa, like also depends on the developer to they would have to trust what you just spend twice as long creating this code. But what's to say that the developers would be like, Well, this coat so you don't know what you're doing in a lot of time? Do you like code? Like the knowledge of code, especially with us, we don't really coat all that was kinda limits somewhat like what the visual design could look like. Or actually right.

Yeah, I agree. I just think that there's something missing. We are on a mission to find, like, what could be better communication? Told you.

Yeah, I have something that just popped in my head. It's related to this. You guys see anything, you know, tradition, markers has always been like designer sort of great concept, right? And then you figure out how to build it. Have been recently watching these videos about the these videos of baseball team talking about how they read in the paper. They started completely. They they started with interactive wire frame from They built it to have the qualities that they wanted, like the size of objects to speed the animation styles. And they figured out how he wanted the experience of interacting with that have to be before they figured out what it looked like. So they gleaned the visual design direction from falling of our product, was how

he wanted to feel very different, but that that's cool.

So it seems like it seems like the first person it was providing conceptual input was it was driven by animation, and they color. You don't

think about colors just the way that it works. Boxes here, wire frames. I will say that paper is very boxy, like the face is like so many squid. Full lead squares where? So, uh, we're kind of guys wait touch on organization. But there's a lot about their G name,

all files. One thing I'll say way. Maybe spend a minute like my viewpoint is when If you're working by yourself, it may not matter as much, But if you're working with the team, you should probably think about how it's gonna be structured.

You know, we're here. I didn't have a solid, like one way or you really like to see a PSC. The Anthony your nose, Anthony. Work exist like notated. Perfectly like the flow would be like designated as a flow in the file in the current season. And it would be like that. The layers will be turned off from me like 1111 point to you like this. He's really good. Yeah, color later. Everything. Yeah, color labels. I get really distracted in my designs. Like when I focus on organizing my ears. You know,

I really found the opposite. You know, we started talking about flow just based on who I am. I'm unable to get into that flow until things

man I like. So, like, the lack of the most recent fortune may I just had forgiven. I have to be about organization. And then actually, and I spent probably just guilt.

Well, you know, the way everyone's busy,

can you? Yeah, well, well, I think that's probably the end of our episode for today. I think you guys so much for coming together today. And nest episode. Something on the books is something special. So hopefully hopefully this. Yeah. So we're gonna try and do a podcast little bit more often on a little bit. Not long, but

yeah. Please subscribe on iTunes and support us

priest. All right.