All right. Welcome back to the hustle podcast. I'm your host, Anthony Armendariz, head of design and partner at fun size. And I'm here today with my friend. May read. Ah, local Austin interaction designer. What's

up? Hey. Hey. How's it going?

Going pretty good. Uh, I usually do this on Friday. So for some reason, it feels like Friday. But it's only Monday. Yeah, it's because I'm I messed up when we scheduled last week. So a little bit about may. Amazing interaction. Designer at Rackspace. She is an unorganized her at AA group called Fresh to Design, which is an awesome local designed meet up. I'll let you tell people about that. And she is also an instructor or teacher at good girl Develop it may. Why don't you say a little? Don't you tell us about yourself and what you're world looks like And what you're up to these days?

Sure. Yes. So, um, I've been interested in into design. It feels like, always not always knowing that I was, but, um, these days, um, doing interaction design it, Rex face, Like he said, which has been a really great transition from going to, like, small shop agency work too much larger enterprise design.

Um, it's been a really fantastic, surprisingly fantastic transition. And then, um, also organizing for fresh to design, which has been great. I've always been really interested in community, um, attending meet up since I started college and really developing those types of relationships and networking. That's actually how we met. But the fresh design meet up is aimed at people who are new to Austin or a new to design in general, also as part of that in the tech industry, like developers as well. But our goal is just to open up doors because sometimes it can be really hard to find your footing in this this market. I think it's kind of saturated and tough to meet people,

and so we just want to create Ah away for people to come in and really network and meat people like them within the community as well. A cz people who have been in the industry for a long time and can maybe give Cem Cem pointers or tips or something like that. So we do monthly happy hours, super informal, just get to others to get to know everybody and then also things like workshops and educational events. I think, um, one of the next ones we have coming up is that that last year in talking about U ex design and getting into some of the details on that, so that's pretty exciting.

That's awesome. I've been to one or two the events and several people I work with. And no, I've had a really good time being a part of that. And it's I think it's awesome what you're doing for the community. I mean, you're right. It is really hard. Um, I mean, hey, it's even hard for people that are new to, you know, navigate this, navigate the space and, you know, open new doors and that's that's really awesome what you're doing.

I think this has been a recurring theme on this show, but I think one of the things that Austin has always had a za great tech community on we do have a great design community. It's just that, um, jobs, they're just now starting to open up, and now it's getting really competitive to get those jobs, you know, especially to fill those jobs with local talent versus importing them in from other other cities. So I think what you're doing there is is really important.

Yeah, for sure.

It's So what about? I'm sorry. Could

you go ahead? No, no, it's I was gonna say it's interesting, too, because I just had a friend asked me, um, about what design meet ups or in Austin, and I kind of fell short. I was like, Well, there's dribble, uh, fresh to design. And then I was kind of struggling to find some good designed meet up. So I think the more that we can create those types of communities, the better.

Yeah, totally. What about girl? Develop it

So, yeah, G d. I. Is a nonprofit organization, um, and really geared towards women. But of course, everyone is welcome. But it's just a judgment free zone for women to learn about Webb and softer development to really get a handle on how to code. So we do very informal, typically weekend classes over a variety of subjects and experience levels. So everything from beginning html CSS too advanced JavaScript, um, and all the in betweens. So it's It's just a nice way for people who aren't familiar with coding or maybe don't know where to get started. Toe have ah kind of more classroom setting and get help on where to start.

That's awesome. So between doing those two things, you're a full time interaction designer. Rackspace. You said earlier that, um, you know, and I know your story, and you move from a very, very small, independent design studio to rack space, which is a huge enterprise. And you said that the experience was surprising. Tell us a little bit about, um, about

that. Yeah. So, um, I think one of my favorite things about being in a startup is it's it's very fast pace you get to work on and especially an agency start up. You get to live, work on lots of different projects. Um, turnover of, like, designs that you're working on are going out the door really quickly, and it can be really fun and invigorating. Um, but with the size of the start up that I was that there were only six of us. And so, as you would expect, you had to wear lots of different hats,

um, in order to make sure that everything was being done. And so I was I was designing. I was developing. I was helping another designer, uh, work things out for her stuff, Uh, and then also learning more advanced coding technologies. So they were teaching me some, like, back and stuff. I was mostly just doing front and development. Um, and so I was kind of a jack of all trades and doing all the things all the time. Um,

and whenever I got the opportunity to work it rack space, it was a little apprehensions about it because, you know, that stigma of the corporate machine and the man's horrible would have you And, um, it's actually been the opposite experience from what I was expecting, Um, they've like, everybody has been very open and there's lots of mentorship programs. Uh, and they have leadership training and all of these wonderful ways to advance your knowledge and kind of help you move your career forward. Um, and I think that's one of the reasons why Rackspace has, um, that is much attrition. As you might expect,

a lot of the people that have been working there have been there for tenor 5 to 10 years of couple of 15 years and stuff like that. And so it's It's been a really nice ah, unexpected transition into that, that enterprise world and honestly, the even though I've been working on the same project now for about six months, Um, the problems that were solving are still so complex because of an enterprise level, um, the scalability and kind of creating these widgets that can fit into a lot of different products. Um, still creates, like, a really great challenge. So I'm never bored either.

Yeah, well, I mean, and even though you're, you know, not splitting your time between design and development, from what I understand, you're still doing it in a variety of design activities and being able to grow and grow and and and do outcomes in different things like research, strategy and interaction, design and visual design. And even, you know, you mentioned motion graphics and all this other stuff. So it seems like when the right enterprise setting with the right sort of logistics and team dynamics, you can probably still get ah, different flavor of diversity.

Absolutely. Yeah, It's been really great so far.

I also think that, um, people don't give enterprise design and enough credit. Um, there's so much opportunity in that space, I think. And, um, no,

no, I totally agree. I think there's kind of this. I don't I don't know if this is coming for everybody, but I know whenever I was fresh coming out of school, I kind of had this stigma attached to being an in house designer like it was a faux pas or something and that the only way to go would be like agency or start up in order to learn and grow and develop the night. I think that's just not necessarily the case. I mean, obviously there are probably some larger companies that might not be the best, but in my experience, at least it's It's been pretty lucrative for for my knowledge and breadth of experience.

It's also interesting, too, because in your particular like career curve, you started out in an agency world. So not only did you, you know, learn how to move fast and wear multiple hats, but you also learned and deployed customer service and, you know, presenting designed to stakeholders and all of that kind of stuff, which I assume has to be extremely valuable and a team like you're on me. I mean, you have your own customers to mean and that that level of understanding, like of the problems outside of just the output is very important.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree.

So, um um, it sounds like things are awesome there. I mean, I don't if you can't talk about it, we can skip it. But what can you say about the kind of things you're working on?

Um, So I think the biggest thing that we're focused on right now is creating a unified voice of Rex. Miss, um, we've been going through a lot of transitions and have acquired a lot of different products. And rex bases really great about encouraging people to solve their own problems, which is awesome. Whenever you're in this big industry and trying to find a thing, and you can't and then they give you the opportunity to kind of do it yourself. Um, but the problem with that is now we have lots of scattered and different solutions to save two to solve the same types of problems. So now we're trying now that we're 6000 plus people, um, it's just not working anymore. And so were as from the design perspective, we're trying to unify it, Um,

both on the rocker side, which is what we call our employees at Rex Base and also from the customer side. It's kind of a unique problem because we have out facing customers and internal customers because we are a, um, supported a cloud company so you can set up a server and then we manage the server for you. So part of our job is to make sure that customers and Rackers can communicate effectively and having all these different types of software that look and feel and say different things, um was creating more confusion than anything. So that's what Retrain dissolve

now. Okay, so that's interesting. I don't know why, but I just assumed that you were on a CA product team, like focusing on one product. But it sounds like what you are is like a design team that supports various Rackspace teams, which, if I had to imagine that could include all the consumer stuff I t and support products.

Um uh

uh, an entire range. So, in a way, you're kind of like a service is group for Rackspace. Is that sound right?

Yeah. I mean, I think that's an interesting. Uh, take on it. I don't I think, um, one of the best examples I've seen is if you think of, like, into it, uh, systems, they have quickened books, um, mint dot com There also something else? But if you go to each one of those Loggins screens, the design is the same.

Like they mint dot coms log in as unique to mint and quicken books is unique to quicken. But they're similar enough that you can tell that they're all into it customers or cos um and so that's what we're trying to do, is is, even though we have thes multiple products, um, we want to make sure that no matter which one you're in, you know that you're at Rackspace.

Okay, so that, um that means ah, you know, interaction, design paradigms. Um, look and feel assume that also means, like, voice and tone. Absolutely. That and that's interesting, because I know that I know the company that you were at, um ended up making a big pivot into doing bots and conversational you. I, um what is it like? You know,

I mean, I'm just asking because I don't really personally have the experience in creating voice and tone from from a writing. Ah, perspective. What can you say about you know, the other folks out there? They're in similar positions and how they can level up their skills to be able to create these. This the these unified that unified design but be able to figure out the boys and

tone. Um, so one of the things that we've been doing on my team specifically, as we have, uh, kind of thes strategy meetings and I'm on the communications team, appropriately enough, um, but we were trying to come up with a strategy for how we want communications, that rack space to work. Now, this is this is, like just for our team. Big picture. The sky's the limit. Kind of. Here's how we think things should work.

Um, in order to basically spread the word and get people interested in what we're doing. Other teams that Rackspace interested in what we're doing. And I think the most important part about this is that we have clear strategies and a common goal for the things that we're gonna output. And I think the hardest one of those is voice and tone. Because there So many people that are like because we're customer support. Right? And there are so many people that are talking to our customers every single day, getting everyone on the same page as faras. How we do that, um, is a really big challenge. Uh, but a fun one. And and I think starting with visual language, um is kind of the most important.

But then also creating ah, ways for like them, Teoh right to customers, like using templates that are using a certain voice. And then once you using and read those templates enough, eventually, I think you'll when you're when you're on that zone network headspace. Um, you'll eventually start naturally picking up on some of those

things are awesome. Thanks for that. So why don't you tell us a little bit about how your team is structured and how you guys work together, too? Uncover opportunities, design solutions and even react to problems that you're having and and work together to do to do great work.

Absolutely. So one of the things that we actually encountered recently um, there's me and another designer on my team specifically, and we were going through right testing so We're having to, um, rapidly iterating on these mock ups after one day of user testing and to get it ready for the next round. Um, and as we were going through this, we were finding lots of issues with passing off our files. Um, especially using things like sketch if you're using something like, I don't know, a shared folder on Dropbox or like Google Drive. It has, like, this tendency to create duplicates and it, like,

says, conflict at the end. So we ended up with all these files All these, uh, unnamed art boards and just really bad overall designed practice, like design 101 name all your players, Right? Right. Um and so afterwards we took a second literally just have, like, an hour meeting because we both recognized that it wasn't the best way to interact and work together. And we were able to come up with, um, kind of a design process for our entire Rackspace design team. Um, we,

uh, put out like, certain naming conventions like this is how things should be also using. Um I don't know if you've if you've used the shared folder on envision Their envisions, Inc but that was doing research into the tools that were already using and then finding with to get rid of like that conflict at the end of all of our sketch files, we're still both being ableto work in them at the same time. UM was really helpful, so we were able to prescribe this process that now everybody within our design team can use.

That's that's always been a big deal for me. But then again, I'm extremely o c d. I was always the kind of person that wouldn't refuse to even touch a file or a folder until it was like, completely organized and and I don't really think things have to be like over the top. But I believe if you just spend a little bit of time to get things together, the long term return on investment is is convey immense.

It's huge, right? I think it's so important and I am also a stickler. But we were on a time crunch, so had Thio just kind of go with it, But I I think it saves so much time. Even if you're working in your own file and you're familiar with the layers not having, like, 20 art board. Two copies can be really useful, right?

Yeah. I mean, in the down to the layers because, you know, especially when you're using a tool like sketch when it's so easy to output assets. But but you know what? We encountered this a while back. One of the first projects a year or two ago that we were using sketch we had to. We had to designers working on the same product, one for IOS and one for Android. And the way that they named the layers are so different. So then we had to go all the way back and revising naming conventions on all the layers just so we could get an output of consistent assets, icons, icons and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. I mean,

it's I think that stuff is packed is pretty important. And I think that if you can create a simple framework, you could save a lot of time. Um, and this decision making in its focus on what you're trying to work on. Not that this is like a big topic for this episode, but I'm curious. Um, you can tell a little bit more about the invasion sink folder. I'm actually not as familiar with that. Uh, I'm kind of curious if that's easier to work with. And like a Dropbox folder for envisioned specifically,

I love it. So, um, it sinks everything. Ah, to envision. So they have. Look, I don't know if you've noticed the tabs. There's like prototypes, and one of them is assets. Can't remember the other two, but in the assets, um, folder it has your versions of your sketch file saved. So it'll do. You could do an auto save,

and it'll just auto save all these different versions so you can still access older, older ones where you can turn it off so you can have more control. I prefer doing that. So I have, like, a V one V two rather than one every two minutes or something. Um, but it also you can put it directly into your finder or explorer window and sink directly to your desk top so you don't even have to open a Web browser toe. Access those files as long as you know, like which prototype you need to work with. You can open sketch directly from their, um, and it also will export all of your assets to that file. A swell. So the screens that you're using will be exported. And if the name of the screen is the same, it'll automatically update them inside of your prototype for you. So no more exporting toe like J Peg er p and G and then uploading to the prototype individually.

Well, all our sponsor envision will love that plug that you just get I

I also really appreciate incisions Craft, Blufgan. I like Elena, the other designer on my team. And I are. Every time we see something new and envision, we always joke like they're listening to our chats. I know it because as soon as we complain about a thing, something comes out that fixes it. Um, my only request would be that their new Ghira issues sink isn't just for Jury Cloud, because we don't have that, but it would be very useful,

Clark from inventions. And did you hear that, please. And thank you. All right, so, you know, last but not least, you've had, um you've had the job of being a designer and a developer, and now you're focusing on design, and I know that it's important to you on, you know, working with developers in the right way. What's your what's your viewpoint on designers and developer relationships? And how do you think, Um, people can work better together to to do great work?

Um, I think it's so important that both parties are involved from the very beginning. Um, even before requirements are defined to think, having a sit down and talking through the project what kind of the outcomes might be and expectations are gonna be, um, are detrimental to having a successful launch. I know that in my experience, uh, having the Deb's involved with, like, the very first kind of here the first round of mock ups that we've done and going through and making sure that all of the requirements are met and any questions like because, you know, as you're designing wire frames, questions pop up. And so it makes it really easy to automatically address them and say, Is this something I should be worried about or is it even possible?

Like I don't know how the back end works? Can you explain it to me? Um, makes things so much easier because there's no doing like this surprise. We've done all the user testing and these air ready for you to start developing. And then they come back with all of these questions like, Well, what about this part are I can't make this happen because of ABC. All the expectations are already set from the get go. And there's no, like, major pivots that have to be made. Um, later on wasting a bunch of time.

Do you guys ever do? Um, um, paired, Developing, repaired designing.

What do you mean?

Uh, I've seen different flavors of this, but I guess you know, simply what I mean is sitting at the same computer, working on the same task together, like two designers or a designer and a developer. I'm just saying, like, I've seen people do it Where, um it's just two designers working on a problem. And I'm also seeing it where we do a lot of this like just a designer paired with an engineer on implementation. But then I've also seen it were a developer is sitting at a designers computer while they designed, like, you know, making some of those decisions together.

So most of our team is remote, so we don't do a whole lot of of that. I think the closest thing, um, is we'll go through demos together. So we do it early on with just prototypes that we've been working on a building and talk through some of the design decisions, and vice versa. The developers will show us a demo, and we'll be able to kind of help Dr that their direction as well. Um, but I think the remote part makes it a little bit more difficult. Tohave that sort of shadowing, um designed asset.

Yeah. The remote aspect is could get difficult. I don't I don't know how you guys do that, but, um, it takes it takes time to get that right. But I think you get it right. It's pretty good.

Yeah, absolutely.

Um So on the way that you guys design and develop, are you guys using a a certain flavor of agile or scrum or combine or lean? Like, how do you, um how do you guys work on the on the project management aspect of it.

Um, so we have a dedicated project manager. Uh, that access kind of are our liaison for, um stakeholders. Most of the time, we definitely have meetings with stakeholders, but during, like, the the main part of our work, he's talking with them. But the rest of us were working an agile way, so we're very communicative, and, um, making sure that we're always a little bit ahead of the developers. I think that goes without saying,

but we're pretty much on the same page the whole time. And if there are any questions or anything like that, they're usually meeting set up of Hey, I just want you to be aware of this. This is happening. Not sure where it's going to go yet, but thought it should be on your radar kind of thing. Yeah,

so what? It from your experience? What do you think? The big difference. The biggest differences between, you know, like doing quote unquote agile in an agency client service environment. And in doing in house in a product team is what can someone like Fun site. How could fund size, maybe learn howto and do that better based on the way teams are working in house?

Um, so I think one of my biggest things would be open communication with your client because I know you guys are just designed, focused. And so, um, I think even from from my point of view, whenever I was working at an agency and I was working on the design and then developing, I was automatically kind of segmenting it into two parts. And I think opportunities, air, even certain concerns can get missed in that, um, that you may not be aware of. There are lots of things. Just, um our biggest focus right now is we're working on work flows for navigation, and there are all of these pieces to the back end that we don't necessarily know the details about.

But making sure that that line of communication is open between our developers is is key to making sure that it's successful. Um, so I think having a really good understanding of what their expectations are like what? What are they expecting to get out of it and then also having a general view of how their code works there? In the beginning, we were working on this notification center and we were having this huge debate over whether or not it was gonna be called notifications or messages, because on the back end, it's called messages, and I mean, it's it seems like a really little thing. But it was like an important conversation that had because it led into these other broader questions for how again, how we're going to communicate with our customers, what this thing does. Um, and that that was really important to have because they already had an idea that it was gonna be called messages and we had an idea that it was gonna be called. I think notifications at the time,

our alerts. Even so, it it all comes around. Eventually. It's just It probably would have been brought up much later in the process. But having that from the get go and having a kind of unified understanding of what we were trying to present to the customer, I think was really detrimental to the success of the project.

So in summary, it's kind about how communication is key, right? How you how you're communicating with other designers about the goals, how you're organizing your files and communicating the design, um, artifacts themselves. How you're communicating stories higher, communicating with your team to overcome issues higher, communicating with developers, I think. And when you talked about this I mean, I really do believe that communication is the most critical thing for, uh, you know, skills for designers to

have absolutely an open communication, too. Because even if somebody comes out and they're like, this is awful. And here's why then at least, you know, and you're not, like approving all the development and saying, yes, we're ready to go out the door and then somebody is like, What the hell is this? Um, absolutely. Especially if it can be avoided earlier.

Well, it's awesome. So it were hitting. November in 2016 is coming. Turn in soon. What do you hope to accomplish by the by the end of the year?

Well, our launch date is set for November 15th on this project that I've been on, some hoping that has no hiccups. It's kind of a big one. Um, other than that, where are fresh to design? Paige, we're about to hit 1000 members, which is also very exciting. Yeah, right. Um and so I'm hoping that that will happen before 2017 rolls around, because that means in less than two years we got up to 1000 members, which is pretty exciting.

That's awesome. So I know a lot of local people listen to the hustle podcast and thanks everyone for listening to it. If anyone is interested in getting involved in fresh to design to their join or to potentially sponsor, how would they do that?

Um, you could get in Tetris. Me. Um my email is may read at me dot com and you can also check us out on Meet up where, but meetup dot com. And it's fresh the number to design, not t o. But the number two and ah, you can also contact us there. And yeah, we'd be more than happy to book you out in advance. We have sponsors through February, but it's a really good place to find, uh, fresh people, if that's what you're looking for. We have tons of members, so

yeah, awesome. And just, you know, between you and I mean, if you ever want to use the new fund size office for hackathons or workshops or even small events, we'd be happy to donate our space.

That's awesome. Yeah, I'm sure that we leaves it cause we have lots of plans for 2017 already. So it's gonna be pretty exciting.

Awesome. Well, may thanks again for making time out of your busy data to chat with me. As always, It's a pleasure to speak with you.

Yeah, thanks

so much. Yeah. Yeah. Um uh, how can people find you on the interwebs and connect with you personally?

Yeah. So, again, my emails Good. I'm also on Twitter at maybes. Maybe B e s, um, are just I don't know anywhere on slack If your local on the 86 built site I'm on there.

Well, thanks again. May have a good day. We'll talk to you soon. This'll episode hustle is brought to you by and vision Designed better, faster together Learn more at in vision app dot com Hustle is brought to you by fun size, A digital product design studio that crafts delightful digital user experiences with inspiring product companies.