Thanks for tuning in to the hustle. A show about the ideas processes people and cultures behind designing meaningful digital products. I'm your host, Anthony Armendariz. And today I'm joined with a new A new friend, guest Claudio ve Vallejo from Monterrey, Mexico. We met last night at Den Pettis episode recording, and he's co working with us today in the fun size office. Claudio is a freelance. You I designer in front and developer with a focus on Web design. And I think he's here today to talk a little bit about himself on what he's been doing. Hey, Claudia, how's it

going? Hey, Anthony.

Good. How are you doing? Great. I'm a little I'm a little, uh It's a little tired from yesterday, but it was fun. Yeah, it was pretty fun. Probably gonna go on all night if if someone hadn't stopped. Uh, it's really hard to stop hanging out when you're hanging out with a bunch of really talented people.

Yes, there was a ton of people good food

yet? Well, I don't know. Was it Well, I thought it was So why don't you tell our guests a little bit about who you are? What you do and what your world is like

right now. Sure. Yeah. Hey, guys, my name is Claudio. I am. I'm actually From what? The Morris. I live in Monterey, but I'm from a tomorrow's, which is a border town in Mexico. I am currently doing some web design and development as a freelancer, and right now I'm finishing a couple projects and seeing what's what's next for me.

So, um ah, one other thing that I think it's an interesting about you, is you You studied something different in school. You study business, right? Right. So what, When you were going to school, what did you How did you see your future career looking like What were you originally studying to be?

Um well, I initially as a freshman, I entered and I was a pre med student. I was doing bio, and I thought I wanted to, um, get into medicine, um, or into the medical field. But I mean, after I don't know, it was after the first semester, my mother passed away, which put me I mean, I went back home and put me to think about what exactly I wanted to do. And when I came back to Baylor. I was still a premed student for another semester.

But then after that, I decided I wanted to do something different. So I honestly didn't have any set, Um, idea of what I wanted to be or what I wanted to do. So I decided on going into the business world. Um, I ended up studying entrepreneurship, and, ah, and Yemen. It was through entrepreneurship that I, um, found out about design and found out about, um, development. And that's how everything started.

Okay, so, um, started out as premed. Then you went business. Yes. And then then another change is you decided that you wanted to do design? Yes. So how did that

happen? Yeah, So, um, my second to last semester was a part of the Baylor Accelerate Accelerate Adventures program, which is a small program in which, uh, couple are I guess 12 students or a small group of students are admitted, and groups of three students are are, like, made into, like, a A group, and each group is given $5000 as seed money to start on idea they have. And it was through that, um I mean, our business didn't do like we failed terribly. But it was through that that I found out about Adobe, like the adobe suite and illustrator because I designed the local for the Okay,

so they gave you $5000 they say, OK, go. Go build this. Build something, build something. What? What? What

is that you're working on? So our idea was to build a company that sold bamboo cases for the iPhone. Um, my brother back in Mexico was running on. He was reselling iPhone cases, and it was through him that, I mean, we honestly didn't know exactly what to do. So my brother was doing that, and he had, ah, like, an idea of how things worked about, um, suppliers for the cases and stuff. And, uh, it was through there that we had the idea of trying to sell a bamboo case and and

Yeah, um okay, So you're thrown into this, and all of a sudden you have to do all these things to launch this, this product or his business, right? You know, branding identity, you know, designed system, website, all that stuff. So this is the first time you ever like we're done any of that kind

of work? Yes. And on my role in at first my role was to design the the logo basically. And it was in trying toe Look, for like, I started designing and keynote, and I was like, No, this is not I'm sure this is not the best way to make a local. So I started researching online and I stumbled upon an illustrator. And when I downloaded illustrator, I I would have just absorbed all of my interest. And I found it so fascinating to work with vectors and and trading, drawing like digital drawings Andi was through. That was what piqued my interest into the world of design.

So you so you had no formal graphic designer design training

and no

Okay. No. So you you went through this, uh, this, uh, part of the curriculum meeting. And after that, you decided I'm gonna

be a designer. Well, after that. So I that I entered my last semester, which was fall of 24. I'm sorry. Spring of 2014. And I had one, uh, empty space to fill with whatever class I wanted. And I did it. I did some research on what classes were offered at the like in the arts and communications apartments. And I found this intro tha graphic design that didn't require any prerequisites to enter. So I I mean, that's what that that was a class that changed the way, like, not so much that it changed.

Defined what I like where I wanted to focus on, um, next. And yeah, I had a really, really, really good time in that class. And after graduation, I decided that I wanted Toa find a job as a graphic designer back then. Okay,

so you finish. This was still all of Baylor's. He went back to Mexico.

Okay, so, um, I'm I'm a Mexican citizen. So I had, um I asked for an extension of my visa through a no PT, which is like this, uh, I guess government thing that you do as, ah international student. Um, and the O. P. T. Lets you find a job or find work for a year that is related to year two. Your major And I mean, I was unknown entrepreneur.

So basically, I had to either start something myself or find something that was related to that. And just by chance a good friend of mine that I grew up with texted me. He was studying at a U S. You and he had just graduated as well. And he asked me to move to Phoenix with them to start to help him continue. Ah, growing a video production company that he was running. So I I mean, that was the I applied toe. So while that happened, I was applying to different graphic design jobs in the U. S. And I obviously had. I mean, I wasn't I didn't even get a reply for money.

Okay, let's stop for a minute. Talk about that. Okay? Sure. So it's hard competing for jobs right now in a marketplace where you're competing with people that have 5 10 15 years of experience in today's product design world. You know, people are judged based on, you know, being two or three dimensional, like not just being talented problem solvers. But designers of two or three kinds of trades designed research. U x you accident action design visual design. Now also now, on top of that, you're new to the design field, right?

And a Mexican citizen, right? Like what is it like being in your shoes trying to find a career in design that'll help you grow in the United States. What? What is that experience been

like for you? Well, um it was made it a bit more frustrating in the fact that I did not study that. So after graduating, I found it so frustrating that nothing that I had learned in my four years of college would help me find a job, right? So I It was just on that level, just only on my experience. It would be really hard to find a job added on top of that one even more difficult problem of being a on international student or Mexican in this case, Um, that that just completely makes the possibility. Zero, because I don't have any experience, There's milk. There's a ton of different. There's a like any graphic design student in the U. S. Knows way more than I do about graphic design and has much more experience than I do. And they're Americans are a CZ well, so I didn't have ah chance toe to find a job unless it was through someone I knew or someone that was in the field that could that could help me out, but I didn't know anyone,

so I'm just curious. Did you try to go after apprenticeships?

I did, actually. I approached several design a graphic design agencies in Waco, which is where Baylor University is. And I mean, they saw my work. And my portfolio back then was the work that he had done in the graphic at the end, a graphic design class I took, which was not much. Um, and yeah, I mean, they said no, thank you. And and, I mean, like I said,

by chance, my friend asked me toe move with himto move, you move with him to Phoenix, and that's when things started toe to move in a different direction. Is Wilfred

awesome. So now you're back in month today, and, um, you're a freelance designer? Yes. So the the challenges got even more complicated. Now, not only are you new to the design field, but you're now running your own business, um, designing, which means networkings business development in sales and, you know, project management and presentation and delivery and bill collection. And all the while also needing, needing to grow like what is the community? What is the design community like where you live and and how do you How are you leveling yourself up on all of these in all these different you know, areas.

Yeah. Um Well, honestly, e, I've only attended one design event in Monterey. I'm not very involved with the design community over there. Um, and and well, not the reason is, but I'm I look up to Brian Levin, who is the host of design details. He's a very good friend of mine. And I look up to him and the community that he's starting to create. Yeah, over here in the U. S. And all the friends that he has and those are the people that I look up to,

and and they're the people that well, I mean, that's exactly why I came here yesterday to meet you guys to meet them petty, and two, because it's the type of community. I mean, I'd love to be a part of this community in the U. S. So So you in terms off of community over there? I'm not gonna see Not very involved are very aware of all the things that are happening over there. Um, but it has definitely been challenging to to level up as you as you mentioned and keep on learning and managing a business.

Yeah. I mean, I've been doing this for 17 years, but in those 17 years, the majority of my experience has been an independent freelancer. Okay? And I know exactly what it's like to, like be working alone. And And it really wasn't until the last three and 1/2 years when I only started fun size and we had all these people around there. I realized how, how, how good that could be. You know, I like our Prentice's learned from everyone. But then I think, you know, me and my business partner learn from everyone to learn from,

You know, the senior designers from the clients, even we know we learned from our apprentices and stuff like that in Greece. It's Ah, do you Do you like working alone? I mean, or do you prefer working in a team based environment?

I I can see both. Like I think I like a balance of both. I like working on my own, but I also really enjoy working with a group of people toe solve whatever we're tryingto to designer build. Um, I think they're both, uh they're both fun. Yeah. I mean, lately, these past eight months, I've mainly been on my own, but, I mean, I have worked with teams off other developers or designers, and, um and like I said, I enjoy balls.

Okay. How many projects are you managing? A long time.

Um, right now I'm managing three projects. They're all three of them are in the final stages off. Like I'm about to publish them, um, or finish them off. At one point in the year, I was managing four or five projects. I mean, not all of them were required the same amount of involvement or the same amount of of, ah, attention that some of them did. Like, for example, I've been working on one project that has been seven months long, which is the toughest project I've worked on. And,

um and yeah, I mean, why was working on that? My luck, I guess I was starting to, um I I was acquiring other smaller projects that help me, um, solved challenges that I would face with this bigger project. So, um, yeah, I mean, things have aligned themselves toe help me overcome certain challenges and and keep on looking for more opportunities.

So you you mentioned that learning is Ah, you know, it was important to me. We've talked. Talked a lot about that already. How are you doing that? Like, how are you? How are you picking up all these skills and designed specifically? Yeah. How are you? How are you refining your craft?

Yeah, um, I think the biggest. When I first started looking into Java script, for example, the biggest challenge I had was I knew, like I wanted to build something, but I didn't have anything to build. And I think that's I mean, it's really you can't learn without having something toe build and and learn from. So it was through freelancing and to finding projects that I slowly started toe ramp up the like, the level or the Yeah, I guess the complexity of the projects that I was doing, um And how do I learn? Well, I mean, sometimes it I mean,

I tell the clients like, I don't know how to do this, but if you are willing toe to give me the chance to build whatever you need, all figure it out how to build it. And that's exactly how I have been.

That's that's awesome. Damn petty. And I were just talking about that yesterday, okay? You know, there's there's different camps. I thought right. Some people think, Well, you know, I'm a freelancer. My agency rate is X. You know, always I must always get that rate. And then there's sometimes when you're presented with an opportunity to learn something new, where if you're just a little bit flexible, it can help you.

It can. It could be that stepping stone to the next thing. I remember when I, uh um when I lived in New York City and, um, when I went out as a freelancer, all of my experience had been in Web design, you know, like a lot of stuff in like, like, news and editorial, like big, big Web design projects. And, you know, this is around the time that the,

you know, the iPhone released, you know, I was so I had done web design for 10 years at least, and I was just kind of burned out. I'm doing that. I wanted to learn something new, so of course you know, it was mobile, but you know how you know, like, I didn't have any experience in that. And so that's that's a tactic I used to like. My first client was harvest the time tracking software. Okay? And they're like,

Well, yeah, we'll let you do this, you know, just, you know, be flexible on your rate. And And we had, you know, kind of had a project and that, you know, now you're prepared for something else, and yeah, that's, um that's really important. Yeah.

What is your hopes with, um, with this freelance business that you have our Are you hoping to turn that into, um, a collective or an agency? Are you hoping to just do this work alone and sort of, you know, create the life that you want for yourself? Or are you just doing this while you're trying to do something? It just just for a temporary period time while you're trying to do something different.

Um, well, right now, my focus is on learning as much as I can about design and development to eventually build a good enough portfolio to come to the US. My love to work for a product company. Um, I've learned as the months have passed by that I don't. I'm not a big fan off doing agency working. What I mean by that is like just building something. I'm not saying that as quickly as possible, but I just build something and, like, handed off. And then there's something and handed off. I'd rather build or help build a product that I really like and learn, like how things change and how the product of votes that

I mean, that's over owning it. Overtime like that, Not just the thinking and then design iterations. But the optimization of it once it's in user's hands and you know yes, yeah, yes. You know, there are variations of that to like the way that we work, like we're in agency. But we only do product work, and it's all agile. So you know, if you can find a place like that and you can kind of, you know, get both of those worlds to align, right?

But yeah, I mean, I definitely understand that if I understand what you were going there and so the next question I have for use if you could dream a little bit, say, three years in the future, You know, what kind of designer like do you hope to be like, What kind of what kind of skills do you like? What do you want to be? Great ad Like, what? One thing do you want to be great at And what kinds of products do you you want to work on?

What? It's a hard question. Like, I don't know what one thing I want to work on. Uh, I mean, I honestly equally enjoyed design and development. I don't care what type of development it is. Uh, I know that I'm I'm not answering your question question correctly. What? Yeah,

I mean, that's that's a an appropriate answer. I mean, there's lots of people that would say, Well, I want to get great IOS engineering or I want to get great at mobile design. And there's people like you who don't see the difference between design and

engineering. I mean, yes, I'm I know that the products I've worked on have not been big or have not haven't made much out of them. But I have learned because I I was involved from the inception to the delivery of the product from like on every part of the design process. And like I said, despite they're not big projects, I've learned about the different parts of the process that make up the whole, like from start to finish up a project. And I love all of the parts. I mean, there's obviously some gray areas or some very not fun areas, like, for example, the point between when you're tryingto, uh, prepare the assets from designed for the production.

I mean, that's I don't think not many people like that part of the design process, but But, yes, I think that I find it fascinating how on idea is turned into, like a reality and all the different things that happened for that come to life. Um, I just really find it incredible.

That's awesome. So what now? What about kinds of work? Like, what kinds of products do you wanna work on?

Oh, yeah. Um, I didn't industries and verticals, okay. I mean, I have I mean, there's some companies that I like. There's products that I use every day that I'd love to work with and learn more about. And there's other products that I haven't had a chance to toe use, but that I still like I can relate to because of things that I've lived through it. Like, for example, I use Dropbox every day, and I love. I like the simplicity of the product, but I know that there's an incredible amount of complexity behind the product.

I love uber, and I love products that are changing the way we work in the Ching, changing the way we use things or do things. I love Airbnb. I mean, I know there's like they're the big companies in the world with them in there. Their companies that are truly creating value through

they have survey, have the right components necessary to do meaningful things. Yes, yeah, So if any any designers at Dropbox or baby or are listening e reach up to Claudia, Um, I suspect that some of our listeners are young designers, too. So that was another reason why would have you on, because I think it's important to have, like, hear from people that are, you know, been around forever. And here for people that are new to the industry thing, that's really important for me to talk to people for me to learn, you know, just talking to you. I'm learning things. What advice would you give to someone who is about to start

freelancing? I think if if you're about to start freelancing and you don't know everything about whatever you're going to build or design or whatever it is, just I think you should I don't trust yourself that you're going to do the best of your ability to deliver whatever is being asked for you to deliver. Um, and I'm sure you will do it. I I think that's one thing that, um, I've learned. I mean, I'm not saying that that it's been an easy honey. I have had an easy time doing the project that I've been doing. As simple as they may be when you don't know how to do something, it's scary toe dive in and and do it right. And I think that I think it's worth the dive. That's that's what I think, because that's one thing that I find very interesting as well. Is that after like right now,

when I'm about when I'm about to finish a project and I look back at the point where I started, I'm amazed, even though it's like a couple of steps above what I used to do. But it's still a little bit above what I used to do. And I find that amazing how when I first started, I had no idea I was going to jump over the wall or

diving jump. You said, jump over

the wall. I

I didn't mean it. Sorry, but yeah,

you send that right, anyone can jump over the wall. Um, yeah. So I think it's worth I think it's worth the jump.

Um, Claudio, Thanks for coming in today and talking with me and hanging out with fun size crew. Um, why don't you tell everyone how they confined you on the interwebs?

Sure. First. Thank you, Anthony. I love it was a pleasure meeting you and all your the people that were a cure. Um, and you guys can find me on Twitter at Claudio. You Hopi and you can find my website at Gloria. You co dot a mix. Thanks, guys.

Thanks. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time. This'll episode of hustle is brought to you by envision design Better, faster together. Learn more at in vision app dot com Hustle is brought to you by Fun Size, a digital product design studio that craps delightful digital user experiences with inspiring product companies. Follow us at hustle cast and fun size on Twitter.