the way back to the hustle podcast host Anthony Armendariz had a design it fun size. And today I'm here with

my colleague seven and we're gonna have a chat about what it's like being a young designer. What's going on, man?

It's been good. Um, I got a birthday coming up, and I am gonna be 26 years old. I am a product designer at fun size and day to day, just crushing wire frames, doing some visual design. Lots of cool stuff happening at fun sites right now.

Thanks. It's good to hear. So you've been on the team now For what? Like, officially, about three months? Yes, three months. Okay. Before we talk about what you're doing right now, like, why don't you tell everyone about who you are as a designer? What you did before joining our team

for sure, for sure. So I live in Austin about 4 to 5 years, grew up in far west Texas, and Al Paso went school there and moved on down over here, kind of bounced around a few places, got my start a gorilla suit, moved over to think thio, and then did advertising for a bit until to check. Creative right down the street from here. And so it's been cool. And I think throughout that time I've just grown a strong passion for interactive design.

So how, I mean, how long have you been doing things in this sort of product space? Because, you know, my understanding of what you did at some of these other will not mean all the jobs. But some of them were more like art direction

for sure, for sure.

What's the difference between, like what your previous career as an art director was versus What you're doing now is a product designer,

I guess right here it's a lot more focused. Working in advertising. You have opportunity to, you know, work on social campaigns in tandem with an actual website. Right now, we focused mostly on products, and here it's a lot more focused. You know, back in the day, I used to maybe juggle 4 to 5 clients right now, maybe 1 to 2, and so I get the opportunity to really focus in on one client or two clients at a time and just give them all my love and attention.

That's cool. So what can you say to listeners about the kinds of stuff that you've been working on here

for sure. Super Cool Super Fund. I think the greatest benefit I've gone out of fun size here is just the structure and the processes that go into starting a project. You know, a lot of the time it can get kind of messy when you're on boarding and you person onto a team, especially if that team's already been working on that client for years. More months. So here everyone's just, like, really friendly. Everyone has wants to give you the tools Thio do the best possible.

Yeah, I mean all. Uh, you know, I don't I don't mind admitting this, but I think one of the things that we've and maybe this is related to some of the stuff that we're gonna talk about about being it, you know, like what it's like being young designer, I'll admit, like as we've grown now that we're we have, like team of 17 most of being designers. It's really hard on board designers. Really Well, like all a minute like you and Lindsay. When you guys both joined, you were just kind of thrown in like We didn't get a lot of time like we had meetings and stuff like that. But not as much time as I would have hoped to,

like really get you guys on overview like how we work in the tools and all of that. What did that feel like? Like, how does it like, what does it feel like coming into a new organ? A new design organization?

I think it's really cool to get a variety of different projects. So the first few projects I got a fun size. They were mostly kind of starting from scratch, so you didn't really have to work too much with other people's assets. And so that was an interesting opportunity. Again, working with more designers having more of a structure, the whole team toa kind of jump in and give you that support. Ah, what I've been working on these last few days is kind of working with other people's assets, and that could get a little bit messy. But, ah, we have a great man named Jim Jordan on scene and he's been coaching me through it and just been really great and supportive because I know a lot of other different places. You wouldn't. They would probably just hang in the file and tell you to figure it out. But here they really want to give you the tools for success and make sure that you can deliver in the future.

No, thanks for tuning the fun size horn. Yeah. So we're both Texas boys. You're from El Paso. My dad's side of the family's El Paso. We have that in common. I haven't met that many people in Austin in the design community from El Paso. I'm gonna I was gonna ask you a question about you, but I thought I would just change the subject a little bit when you said that you are thinking a lot about young designers. What do you mean? Are you you know, like, just to set some context like you're not old, but you're not young, but you're a lot younger than I am. So d do you mean like you're interested in think in topics around what it's like for you, and you're seeing yourself as a young designer Or are you talking about like, you know what it's like being a younger designer? Yeah, that's that's coming into this industry

I think, um, you kind of have some dual pressures going on when you're young. Designer. I know I did. Personally. So one side of you wants the hustle. 24 7 Get everything done, make connection socialize. Just do it all the other side of you also wants to, you know, just chill with your friends and hang out. It's kind of hired to balance those two. I would say at the beginning of my career, probably the 1st 4 or five years. You know, while I was in school a little bit out of school,

I was just career driven, and that didn't mean that didn't socialize. But whenever I would do things, it was kind of I was trying to elevate my career. Like I'm gonna go to this show so I could meet these people and maybe try to work for them. Just always tryingto hustle and get

more work. Uh, yeah, I've been there too. In fact, I think I spent most of my twenties and thirties and in that mode, partially toe tryto get myself on edge so I could be hirable like Iran. We're going through a phase when no one would return my phone calls or emails, and I didn't live in the cities that people were hiring and I was in Austin, and back then there weren't office and jobs. So it's like no one in San Francisco or New York or Chicago give me the time of day and then when I got jobs, I've always been kind of obsessive about my work, which I'm not anymore. I mean, I have different priorities I have. I've learned how to manage my time, but so what was that?

What is that? You know, like from my perspective, you seem like, you know, cool, calm and collected. You do good work. People love your work. It's good work. But I don't see you like you don't seem stressed out or you don't seem like you're working on the weekends. You don't seem like you're having a work even. Yeah, you know, What are you doing? Different than when you were hustling?

I think I've just worked with a large variety of people, You know, I've worked with good people, great people, kind people mean people. And you just kind of always have Thio. Empathy is, I guess, the key. You always try toe gauge their perspective of the situation and what their needs are and, you know, try toe deliver on it. I'm a believer of you know, you might not have the best relationship with a client, but if you agreed to do the job, then you should see it through and give them the tools. And sometimes that means you know not being not being the most exciting work or you're not having the greatest time while doing it. But as long as you can deliver and, you know, just move on to the next thing, I think that's that's the main learning point.

What do you think? Young designers or new designers like that air in their first job in their first year, too? Need toe? Learn for more experienced designers about managing their work?

I think the hardest part. And I know I give a lot of my friends and peers constant feedback on this is how you present yourself. It's all about presentation. So I know for me personally, like, you know, I want to have that killer website the one that someone could get lost in for an hour just because these Easter eggs and a bunch of detail into it. And even when you're you're about me on your website, like for me personally, it was important for its V a reflection of my personality. So you're kind of building or brands through all the content that you're presenting and that can even escalate thio the communication that you do. So when you email someone, you tryto throw some of your personality in that. So it's kind of like a whole experience of that person, because I think that's probably what I like the most about. Working with new people is kind of understanding how the interest was built. I've heard I've had people approached me just off of my tumbler page because they just see my tumbler because its link to my Web site and it seems like all they like the same shit that I like, and they'll go back and say, I want to work with this guy just cause we have similar tastes,

you know? Ah, I can't disagree with that. Some of the things you're talking about run our kind of cultural like and culture changes right? Like when you when you're one person, your culture is you and then two and then four and then ate and then 12 and then 16 Right? So that's how we kind of that's how our culture's going. And just the other day, well, I remember actually looking at your at your website holidays in the united states dot com. Yes, and I was like, What the hell is the holidays in nine states? And your story about that, like, was very memorable. We'll tell the story like, What's the deal behind holidays in the

United States? Uh, it's it's a little crazy. So back in the day, I don't I haven't seen in a while, but, um IOS the mail app Whenever you would try Thio, email yourself something like a screen shot, which I do all the time. Just recently figured out how to do What's it called, where you transferred through air airdrop,

airdrop. No clue, buddy. I'm an android,

Jozo. So this is back in the day when I would email email myself screenshots of things, and I would notice that whenever I emailed myself something, the user name would say, Ah, holidays in the United States And I did. I went up a few years just living with that just not questioning it. Just like Oh, it's kind of weird, but you go on with your day And then finally I looked it up, and it's actually something that a lot of people have experienced and just me changing my username on instagram and all my social media accounts Thio holidays in United States. I've had people approached me, and they're like, Oh my God, I thought it was just me. I had a roommate and for a while he thought that I got into his email and hacked it for it, for his email to say holidays in the United States whenever he e mailed himself and his home like Now that's I'm not that smart to be able to do that.

That's interesting, anyway. Like, I guess that's a very cool story, but it's memorable, and I felt like when you told that story, at least I was thinking, Okay, well, this person fits in a really good in tow, like our culture, and just the other day I was looking at someone's website and they had, like they said, Oh, I have to bunny rabbits, right? And I was like,

Oh, like I'm not a bunny rabbit guy about like pages. A bunny, rabbit, Gallic. She's got bunny rabbit tattoos And, yeah, there's things like that that you just you just sort of you sort of seeing connected on when you're looking at a young designers website. I guess the reason why I even went down this tangent is I think, that they're so there's a lot of design positions Now everyone's hiring in droves. You know, like at any minute, like some of these big corporations have hundreds of jobs. It's really hard to stand out for sure, right? Like if you have like and I see this all the time like same sort of squarespace website.

I am a U X researcher. Great rights. Awesome. Like, Here's my process. Great, right? Here's my work. Great. It's like there's nothing else like there's got to be something more to get in the door, You know, it's hard

for me. I just really approached it. I just want to throw all of my personality into it, and I guess the persona that I had when I was reaching out for people when I was looking for a job just be like a cool kid. That you found on the Internet and which is cool because that's how I met you through the Internet.

But yeah, I mean, ah, I don't wouldn't consider you a young designer. Do you consider yourself

a young designer? I think now I'm not starting out. When I had just moved here, you know, there was always people in their late twenties, and that was always the thing like, Oh, you're so young. Yeah, e I don't hear that as much these days, which makes me feel a little Saturday. A little older,

but yeah, Put yourself in my shoes like I was always the the youngest designer team. The 21 year old, a 22 year old now in the 40 year old and the average age is, you know, 25 to 28 like still young at heart. Yeah. You know, honestly, I think if you surround yourself what people, there was someone that told me that I can't quote this. Or maybe it was a quote. I don't know. Anyway, the quote is something like this. Like, you're the average of the five people that you spend the most timeless.

So like, if you think about that, like on a personality basis or a sport as a designer, is a skills basis or even interest, like the average of the five people who spend the most time with are going toe give you the things that you're interested in the TV shows. You watch the places you like to eat the kinds of skills as a designer interested in like, you know, surrounding yourself with If you're a researcher and you surround yourself, visual designers, you're gonna you're gonna be inspired. That's really interesting. And so I think about. I've been thinking about that at, you know, at this stage because of my career, because I think that I'm more commonly inspired by the young,

younger designers. You know the thing like the things that you're doing, like you're not a young designer younger than I am and that you know I don't get much exposure into the project work. But when I do look at it and I see the way that like people are working it, it's really eye opening changed my perspective

on stuff and it's a whole

new world out there is it is only world, but you know, we're talking yesterday There's a lot of really young designers use days like people in high school that have started businesses in

design. Yeah, I think one of the craziest things about the Internet is it kind of just gives everyone and even platform thio show their skills and demonstrate what they can do. And what I would always trip on is when you see, you know, a 19 year old kid drop a mix tape and get signed by Jeezy and then also the same with designers. You have little kids from other countries, and they look like they've been doing that their whole lives. Just doing really complicated, elaborate things honorable that you couldn't even imagine executing

yourself. Yeah, that's mind blowing for me, because, I don't know, maybe when when? When I started my career, if you wanted to do something like dynamic HTML, our animation on the Web, you had to, like, learn to code. Yeah, right. And so, like you would spend hours figuring that out there wasn't like, other than like,

you know, director or flash. Maybe after effects. You know, some of this other stuff was like it took a lot of time to figure out how to use the tools howto developed a skill. Do you think that there are more young designers now? Because the but, you know, you know whether you let me know we think. But do you think that there are more because the industry is demanding it and and now all of a sudden, people understand that Oh, shit. Like we should be really training our people in junior high and high school to be like we should instead of treating the art kids as a second class. Citizens aren't good in science and math. We should start treating them like giving the more priority because there are more. Design is a real thing that people are paying money for. Or do you think it's the access to the tools and technologies? It makes it easier to learn,

I think a little bit of both. I think at the end of the day, you know, most people are staring at their phones to get 2030% of the day, and you know what people love is having a nice interaction with things, And if that's something that you care about because you're doing it so much, then I wouldn't think it's crazy for someone to die a little bit deeper and say, Let me take a crack at making one of these APs. Let me take a crack at making a logo out, a website

that's true and really thought about that. But everything these days is highly designed, you know,

to Chili's or Applebee's and have the most beautiful menus. You just have a really good design everywhere these

days. Yeah, I have some mixed feelings about this Dylan, who is on the podcast last year I met him when he was in high school. He was a junior or a senior. I think I'm not sure, though, but definitely a junior senior anyway. He by this time in his life, he had already released two full length LPs and, like electronica music like he composed not not not deejaying, like composing electronic music. It released it, designed the labels or lease it on his own, had it on iTunes. The whole thing was doing shows, but he was also like Does you know he was designing all this stuff and he was doing freelance,

and I'm pretty sure that right after high school he started an agency and I know for a fact that he's in New York right now with the pretty successful design agency. That's awesome to see that. Last night we were talking about an individual. It came over to our office during a party. They were having also same sort of thing, like 17 year old. This individuals like thing was branding, and we were talking last night about how you know, some of these young people are are wanting to go straight into doing business for themselves. Like, what do you think about that?

I think I'm always on the side of encouraging everyone. Ah, I never want to say if someone comes up in their passionate about something, anyone say, No, you can't do that because you're going doing the wrong steps. What I do think this kid specifically, I think he you should keep at it and keep working, keep hustling and doing all these things. But I also think maybe he might learn some stuff on the way. You know, things aren't that easy. Once you get having like a messy client or a messy contract and those kind of experiences shift what you want to do with your life. You know, you could have, like, one horrible client and you can say,

Oh, well, you know what? I'm not having such a great experience doing branding. Maybe I'll start doing product design instead. Or maybe I'm spending so much time, you know, trying to pick up clients. Maybe I'll just focus on that and get someone else to do the branding.

Yeah, I think that's I think that's a big deal, because there's several facts here. Number one. It's hard to argue with the fact that a lot of jobs in America in the these days that is proving that this whole gig economy thing is a real thing. You know, there's especially in design because there's there's so many in house jobs and there are so many agency jobs and there's so many freelance opportunities that, like a significant amount of designers, are going to be independent consultants. But I you know, maybe it's just because of my experience. Like, you know, I I have spent most of my career working alone as a freelancer, but and half of that was like before I worked in teams and I felt like I was kind of ah, the jack of all trades, Master of none.

I could kind of I could do just good enough work, but not great. Yeah, After I worked with teams, I definitely learned what I was great at and when I was not on howto work with other people to fill in the skills, gaps. And then when I went back to freelancing now I was empowered with the knowledge to like be an effective independent consultant, which is really a one person corporation and and then all the work with the networks of other independent consultants. And I get I get really scared about. I mean, I mean sometimes even makes me nervous when people talk about the gig economy thing, right. Like I like that people can kind of go and do it. They please. But I worry about young designers going in the wrong direction too quick. Like I think that people should make sure that they're kind of balancing that working,

collaborative iron mints going around, You know, I don't know. I just worry about that. I mean, especially Leg was talking about earlier, like it's so hard to differentiate yourself. It's hard to differentiate your work and articulate what what you do. And then you on. In addition to that, you're brand right, like your personality like And if 100 other people have similar design skills and stuff like what? You know, it's I just can't imagine what it's like right

now because you're at a young age. You don't even know who you are, really? And I don't think a lot of people have. I'm sure it will. I know all these younger kids they have access to Internet, so they're pretty. You can easily identify, like all I'm really into cyberpunk. Oh, I'm really into these types of things. I know when I was in school, I would free Lance a lot. And you know, after I graduated, I just kind of I was a little bit exhausted from it. So I was kind of looking Thio transition, and that's why I moved over here and kind of let someone else in the driver's seat and not be doing all the account management project management that not doing everything and just focusing on straight

up design. Yeah, I mean, when you're trying to make a name for yourself, if you're doing all of that, it's really like. How can you be great at project management and cells and all these other design craps? You just can't. Yeah, I think,

And you also wanna learn to from other people, other business owners and kind of get their perspective. Okay, these are the things they're doing right, these little things, like they're doing wrong. And that's all stuff you can take with you. It's experience, and that will shape what you want to do

later. There's no doubt that there's just a lot of young age designers like even my brother, who is now in his thirties, was taking design classes in high school and had didn't animation stuff. A hyper card back on old Max in high school was like had learned, you know, w photo shop in Flash and Dream, where all that so advanced enough level that when he graduated high school he came and freelance with me and now like and I see this like kids in junior high school that they're learning design. There's a lot of the young age designers, but there's also a lot of young designers who aren't young. They're just new to design like they are. They had another career before Ah, psychology or architecture er or something else. And they decided I want to be a designer. And so now they're I mean, when I think young designers also think that I think it just about there. They're experiencing the design filled,

like How old are you? And birth years And then how they're you and design you.

Yeah, I actually don't even like the word Junior designer Lee looks like young designer early career something, you know, like a rapper. Youngest. There's a lot of those career switchers. Yeah, we hire. We've hired quite a bit of them here. I like those young designers, too, because they, uh when you spend money to change your career, like whether it's like online classes or G A or something like that says something like, You're serious about this, Like it would be like us, like leading our jobs and our salaries about,

you know, we're gonna be archaeologists and like paying $3200 to make that switch. It's hard to getting those people said it processes. Ah, whole whole different story,

for sure. I think the great part about that is what you did prior also kind of it finds its way into that new feel that you have. Like, I have a buddy and we studied sculpture together, uh, in school, and now she's doing architecture, and I can see I see her work today and I see direct translation. This is the same shit you were doing back there. But now it's on a larger scale. It's a whole building, not just Ah, hallway.

When you're paired up with the younger designer, what do you find enjoyable and working with young designers? And what do you find is difficult and worked with? The designer,

in my experience, says in Austin. Transplant. You know, I moved here, didn't have a lot of friends, and I've managed to convince a lot of my friends to move here. So in a lot of them are designers creative, So I'm constantly helping them out. Oh, you know, send emails, work on quotes, freelancing things like that. And I think the best thing ah, best advice that I could give them is again. It goes back to presentation like, how good is your portfolio? Look, how good is that email look and just spending time with them and like really massaging the language. Thio seem like you're really serious about that project.

Okay, that's an interesting answer, because the question was like, What do you find enjoyable? What do you find? Challenging? Yeah, it seems like what you're saying is the challenge is in the way that they present themselves in their work.

Could I see the diamond in the rough like work is there. It's awesome, but just presenting it in the right way is gonna make all the difference.

I would add on to that, but it is also similar. It is. Ah, learning, too. Take criticism. Design is not one of those things where everyone like there's all these conversations around now. But everyone's a designer now. Not really, but more. A lot of people are involved in the conversation around the design and design is not one of these things where you just design your thing and the client accepts it. No, they're gonna want their are functional aspects, their subjective aspects like it's a conversation collaborative that one of the biggest issues that I see with some young designers is the ego for sure and taking criticism but seeing it seeing criticism as a positive thing. Yeah, that's

one of the bigger. Yeah. Again, I go back to the empathy. You really have to gauge that person's perspective because sometimes I see things and that I hate and everyone else loves. And I don't. I take that as, ah, experience to get me to question why do I react that way till this thing And why do, is why does everyone else like it? And I don't like it because when you open up your palate to different experiences, you're just kind of like broadening how you can give criticism later. So I'm not going to say if I see something that I don't like, I'm not gonna say I hate it. I might just say, Oh, you know what? If you tried, we working it like this, or I would say, this is how I would handle

it, you know? So you've been around for a while, you know? You're not a young designer. I'm not. You're not a young designer old. You're just a young a young person to

me. Anyway, a younger

press, a younger burst of cute. Yeah. What are the biggest challenges that you face right now?

I think one of the biggest challenges that I face is balancing work and life because I kind of grew up in that I wanted to just do it all. I want to have the band. I wanna have the job I want to do art. I'm gonna have the girlfriend I want to do I won't have the dog And that's a lot of things. So kind of what I've been experimenting with is pulling some of the same practices that ideo informal product design into more of the fine art and things I do outside work. So, for example, you know, I do a lot of painting after hours, but I've done the numbers I can probably do maybe four or five hours a week of actual like painting because, you know, things come up, you you're not gonna have a large block of time the same way that you did it in college. So because of that, you're gonna have to change your expectations. So what I've been playing around with it is, you know,

starting a strategy calendar. Deliver Bols. This needs to be done by this day. This project managing your project, managing my fine art now So

are easier are using con bon

methodology. I need Thio. I need Thio.

Natalie and I were using a sauna to manage our baby. That's

on the way. Yeah, I think you can apply it. Thio Everything I think I think people should.

So let me let me let me see if I understand correctly. The biggest challenge that you face right now is designing your life.

Yeah, I want it. I want

to do it all because I What? What? I mean, tell me if I'm wrong. But what I heard there was like designing your life, but still trying to, like, be good at all with all the things right. Be a good you know, be a good, significant other. Be a good pet owner. Be a good artist. Be a good designer. Be a good friend. Yeah, I You know,

honestly, that's something I struggle with, like because I I spent most of my life just poor Well, I mean not not poor like I've never lived on the streets, but I've never had a lot of money. I've always kind of struggled that middle class truck. Yeah, struggle. You know, like you know, my brother and I used to when we were freelancing together like we go to Wendy's and split split a hamburger, you know, I'd off the dollar menu. That's that's what it was like, like just trying to be, like, for me anyway, trying to get my shit together. That was what it was like in my 20 hustle in my twenties and thirties,

I think. Ah, now you know, I got a little more money, little more comfortable. Ah, I really value experiences. Hang out with your friends, going to a nice restaurant, hang out with coworkers. That becomes more important.

Yeah, Okay, yeah, Here's are saying I've spent too much of my time focused on my career and not enough time being a good husband, the best husband I could be the best son and that I could be the best friend that I could be. And, um and those are the things in my life right now. There are more important. I I work at fun size. I run the company. The company is successful because of all of you guys that designers I don't have to worry about building design skills anymore. I have to worry about developing other skills. But But yeah, I can see, like when you're in the work life balance thing, like, you know,

being worried about development of skills Because, like, like you said earlier, like a lot of the ways that a lot of people learn new skills. Is that midnight oil hustle, right? Like watching the videos. You know, middle of the nine with a cup of coffee or whatever. Like it's you can't do that anymore. When you when you go home and you have protest, I don't want to U S o. How do you How are you getting that? Like Okay, Silas is a like I mean what I know about you, you seem to have a really,

you know, you're, like, legit about all the things that you do. I seem to find a way to do them. But how are you growing as a designer, given that you can't hustle, like, used to

I think, um, I try to absorb as much as I can from from leaders. So every place that I worked at, I kind of try thio, learn how they're approaching their business, how they're designing their business and see ways that I can adopt those kind of things and extend it to other parts of my life because I'm a big fan of extending certain skills. I think you can apply a lot of the same properties that you learn in one area. Let's say you're a nurse, for example, and you could just totally pull the same methodology into a new skill that you want to learn.

Yeah, the only thing that I can add to the conversation about that is is being around other people, you know, like we're talking about earlier. Like I'm not like opening up a sketch or photo shop anymore and learning about all the details. But I learned about what's going on in the industry by by being around being around people, which would be really hard to do if I

was a women. Yeah, you got to make the friends that sending the good links. I'm sure the good things, Yeah. Show you the good movies. I don't know about you. Uh, do you ever get mad when someone shows you something like a movie or a cartoon or something? And you're like, Why haven't you showed

me this before or why didn't I know what he

know about. Yeah, you get offended.

Yeah, sometimes. So, um, where do you want to try it, Like for you in your career as a professional designer. Okay. Where is that You're trying to get to next, Like it there? I mean, I know it's kind of a cop out question, but, like, what do you really want to be like, three years from now, What he really hoped

to be doing? Yeah. Okay. So I think three years from now I'm gonna try and not to give the generalized Nancy. But I want to be doing something challenging, interesting, really pushing myself and, you know, have have that side hustle. I have, like, a lot of ideas that are on the back burner. And I wanna, you know, start bringing those to life.

So I ask you another question. Just because you strike me as a person that could potentially go this direction, you've had very different jobs, you know, like working in advertising, working at a studio that was almost like a VC working at fun size you designed, trained. You're an artist. You do sculpture. Are you the kind of person that identifies as like, Well, I'm a Prague designer. Or are you just a product center now? And like, do you see yourself as a kind of designer that maybe three years from now what it go learn industrial

design? Yeah, I would say, speaking candidly. Ah, if I have to label myself and not be judged about it, I would say I'm creative. So and that could just manifest itself in different ways. All these different places I've worked at, I just see them as different challenges, like, Oh, I have to be good at this Now, I have to be good at this now. Oh, I have to be good at this. Now,

now, that's interesting. So, uh, since we're on a roll here, I'll keep going on this path like there's no wrong answer to this, But what do you find? What are you more excited about? The former function?

I feel like the right answers function. I really I I'm a very visual guy, though. Um, if something doesn't look like really nice, then I'm not picking it up where I'm not gonna give it the time of day. And, um ah, lot of that goes back to my love of experiences like I love Lone Star because it's connected to Matthew McConaughey. Love Pearl Snap because it's connected the Helms Helms workshop. Eso just kind of like that whole mantra. Like around something. It just fascinates me.

That's awesome. Well, thanks for Ah, ticking time toe. Come on, the

podcast. Thanks

for having me and chat with me. Let's continue the drinking, Okay. And, uh, get

back to work tomorrow. We'll do that. Awesome.

Thanks for tuning in to the house podcast.

We'll talk. T o Hustle is brought to you by Fun size, A digital service and product design agency that works with inspiring teams. Toe uncover opportunities, evolved popular products. Bring new businesses to market and prepare for the future. Learn more at funds. Eyes dot ceo. I'm Danielle, a product designer at fun size,