Welcome back to the hustle podcast. Today I'm here with my good friend Hugo, such as creative director at 30 or previously known as a lot works. You go specializes in creating advertising us and Hispanic market. He goes a really good friend of mine. He's married to money. Shamoon, who is manage director of fun size. I've been trying to get G go on the podcast for a while. Maybe I don't know what took so long, but I'm really excited to have you here. Usually we have, you know, digital product people in the show. But your background in credit direction and advertising is something I've been wanting to have someone show like that for a while. So thanks for making

time. Thank you for having me here.

Why don't you take a moment and just introduce yourself? Thio folks listening to this show?

Yeah, like you said, I'm Diego Sanchez. I've been working in an advertising now for like, 10 12 years since I moved here to Austin. Like you said, my my specialty has been in the past years for the Hispanic audience, specifically in the U. S. Which is Ah, very niche market for advertising And then, more recently, we've started to expand that and try to apply the learnings that we had from from specific multicultural advertising into, like just doing advertising in general.

Awesome. Can you say anything about the company's or brands you work with? Or if you can't use the types of companies you work with, the types of things it? Yes, sir, those kinds of projects evolved.

So some clients that I've worked for in the past I currently work for mostly in the Texas Lottery and Target the stores I've worked for brands like but Lied in the past, done work or Hispanic advertising for them like that. Domino's Pizza, Kimberly Clark Corporation And within that Huggies, Kleenex, et cetera, Pepsico, Terrel big brands like that that are looking to connect specifically with Hispanics.

So just for sake of conversation, could you could you just briefly over the types of things just because advertising might be kind of a new concept to some of the people that be listening? So So what you're working with on these brands, what are the kinds of things that you make for them?

So, um, anything that will sell the products more right so it could be a video. It could be content that, you know, lives in social media. Any form of advertising or anything that interacting with the consumer will make them once the product or respect the products. Or, you know, think better of a product specifically for the Hispanic audience. A lot of times it's a It's not so much about a difference in the peace. Let's say it's, you know, a TV spots. It's a TV spot, but a lot of times it's about the insight that is delivered through that piece. What? The story that you're telling is about so that a brand can come across as more authentic for that for that audience. Specifically,

did you go to school intentionally to work in advertising? Nope. What did you What did you study in school?

I studied psychology. My, I did an undergrad in psychology in Puerto Rico. Honestly, my whole academic career was kind of like a Let's see how this ghost approach to to school am I originally, you know, was gonna study medicine and then after the first semester was like I could do this, but I don't like it. And I just started taking classes of different things. Design, engineering, social sciences. And I started liking social sciences more. And by the end of my my bachelors, I just had enough credits to finish psychology. But how they have, you know,

one or two more years, I probably would have ended up in business that I started to take business classes towards the end of my undergrad. So it shifted. It was fluid, right then after that, I had finished the degree in psychology, but I did not want to be a psychologist. So my my cop out my way off nuts, you know, my way of prolonging that magic before starting to work was just to continue studying. And a friend of mine had told me you would love advertising. My sister is an auditor in an ad agency, and she says that they were jeans all day and they're bouncing balls from walls and stuff like that, and they're all like you like Okay, I have never set foot in that agency, and I decided to do a masters in advertising. So I That's what I did after the psychology degree.

And that's what is that? What brought you to Austin?

Yes, that's what I am originally from Puerto Rico from my waist, Puerto Rico. And after that, I did my undergrad in psychology over there, I literally Googled add schools. And then, um, UT came up and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna apply to that and my s says, did my tests and all that stuff and and it upcoming coming here for the for the masters in advertising. But I had never set foot in an ad agency before. I didn't masters in something that I hadn't You No, no, uh, knowledge off or even passion for just so that I could keep studying until I figured out what I wanted to do with my life.

I imagine that psychology degree, I mean, psychology seems to be very important in any design and creative fields. I'm sure ds useful. I'm gonna go back to school at my

absolute. I don't regret any single class that I've taken that I can tell you, like in any of my academic career or or even beyond my academic career. I have never regret taking a class or learning about anything but in particular I don't know if it's because of my approach to my work or if it's because advertising requires you to know a little about a lot of things. I've used every single thing that I've done and that I've learned in advertising at some point. A meaning. Another thing that I did, you know outside of school was music, and I played in cover bands, and I played an original bands in Puerto Rico. The creative process that I learned through being in those bands and even the business side of being in a cover band and a wedding bassist say E had a tuxedo for work, everything that I learned in that process, as much as what I learned through psychology as much as what I learned. Obviously, in ad school, I've been able to apply to the creative process into advertising in one way or another.

So how long have you been doing credit director

Now, or it's been four years, 3 to 4 years.

What would you say that the top, or maybe top two skills that someone that does what you do needs to have to be to be successful?

I would sum it up in the word imagination, but there's a lot off degrees to that, and it's weird that I'm describing imagination as a skill. But I do think that imagination is something that you can better get get better at right, and I So I do describe imagination as a skill. I would describe that at the top thing, because when you're doing advertising aside from the creative part off this fun story that I'm gonna come up with or this script that I'm writing or this banner that I'm designing, et cetera, it's also key to be able to imagine yourself as the person who's going to see that commercial and how that person eyes affected by your story by your joke by your song. Your designed the colors that you select so you're not always doing something to convince yourself to buy your product. You're always doing something to convince someone else That's difference from you. That's, you know, older, younger, different gender, a different,

you know, country of origin. Even if they're Hispanic. You know the idiosyncrasies and the details of being Mexican versus being Puerto Rican require you to imagine yourself as I'm Puerto Rican. I have to imagine myself. It's Mexican. If I am reading a piece of copy, right? So the capacity to imagine a story as much as the capacity to imagine yourself in the shoes off the consumer or the user are our key?

No. Interesting. I mean, I hadn't thought about this before, but I was wondering to do this kind of work in the Hispanic markets, you know, knowing that all these cultures are different, is have you learned about these different nuances between cultures and buying habits just by working in the field? Or do you actually do a lot of work to study? Or do you have research departments like, How do you actually get that knowledge?

Absolutely. Oh, I think that key parts to AH multicultural agency is strategy and the Intelligence Department, right. A department that is out there, finding out what people think, what people are reacting to. But as a creative, it is your duty. And I think this is true of any commercial creative in field and discipline. It is your duty to understand what the person that will use your idea or listen to your idea things like and functions like. So I had to learn several cultures that I thought I knew just because I knew the language, which is a big thing about Hispanic quote unquote marketing and advertising is that, Ah, lot of companies, things like, Oh,

we just do ads in Spanish And that way we're talking to Hispanics and that's it. But I had to learn a different language in learning how they speak Spanish in Mexico, right? Ah, lot

of times into some degree how someone would speak Spanish and like a paso to like

that different also, absolutely also, how they would speak Spanish if you're Mexican second generation leaving in L. A or Puerto Rican second generation living in New York and and how those things differ because the effect of running an ad that was written for a Mexican audience in New York or in Orlando would be more or less the same effect off running a Mexican ad in like in Mexico, Mexico and running that at in Puerto Rico, people would be like, Why are you why why do they have this announcer that has a Mexican accent using Mexican words? And I'm in Puerto Rico listening to this ad? It's Spanish. I understand every single word they air saying, but I'm not connecting as well to the to the commercial, right to the story that I'm hearing because of that, it's it's not, Ah, not offensive. Nobody's gonna be offended because of hearing ah, commercial in Puerto Rico with, you know, Mexican Spanish accent. But it's a miss. It's a missed opportunity to connect with that person.

Wow. Yeah, I think about that kind of stuff a lot because you don't like some big brands. They check the box. Oh, do we get the Spanish version of our corporate website? I'm sure some brands do this better than others, but there's so many different nuance to have to be considered. I think a lot of people that do what I do you like doing digital product. They there they might just be approaching, just like getting to a language, not really at a point of getting into those level of nuances about what kinds of creative and end times work. It's specific words. I really connect

absolutely that that field has changed the Hispanic advertising in the U. S. And now that I think about it, your podcast is this in other places that are not America,

Yeah, it's actually kind of surprised.

So that's that's a contact some contact that I next to give Early on in my career, I was sending an exchange program to Germany into an ad agency over there, and the concept of an ad agency within the U. S that was built to speak to a different culture within that country was very baffling to them. In Berlin has the biggest, the largest population off of Turkish people don't just Turkish population outside of Turkey in the world. And they don't have a Turkish ad agency in Berlin. They just maybe run. I don't know how that has changed in the last 10 years since I was there, but back then that they didn't have, like Turkish ad agencies to speak to the Turkish people that live in Berlin. That's why it was very odd to them. The idea that wait, what? There's a an ad agency in the U S. To speak to Hispanics in the U. S.

Solely, and that's it's not just taking an ad from Mexico and running it in the US, right, Right. So I actually have to explain that a little bit now that I think about it, because to someone that doesn't live in the U. S. It's odd to think about this idea off a company that creates marketing, a material and advertising material that is tailored specifically to an audience in a country different from which that audience might originally be. It's, ah, another concept

to explain. There's also, like, not, not just they like what? The things that you're talking like some things that we're talking about an hour like creative voice and tone language, you know, color like There's also like elements of what people are willing to do in certain countries that that others are, you know, like the way I like to get someone to buy something. And, uh, Sweden is very different, that what someone is willing to do in Germany to buy something, for example, like all these different other things, like privacy concerns,

or like what you need to design and how it's laid out in order to make someone feel confident that they should put their name on this thing or whatever, like there's all those things, too, and I think that in this day and age, like it would do a lot of good for people to sort of think outside of their bubble when they're designing their stuff. Whatever that stuff is that you know, because you know, people are saying it around world or potentially.

Well, absolutely. If you if you design a product in San Francisco based on your San Francisco reality and limited to your San Francisco reality, it's gonna be very foreign and literally to someone that lives in Berlin. Oh, are you know, South Africa? A. I think that going back to the imagination to that skill of being able to imagine yourself in your users context, empathy, being able to imagine the emotions and imagine the processes that go through ah user's mind that is key in that process. Because of that,

I want to talk a little bit about creativity more. And then I have something to talk about that I don't want to talk to you about for a very long time. How do you personally state creative and how do you deal with create your creative blocks? Um, actually, before you do that, yes. What is the biggest challenge that you're facing right now?

I think the biggest challenge that I'm facing right now is as I as life changes. And as I grew up as a human being, it's hard to to stay as naive as you have to stay, to believe in the magic of creativity. It is it is a challenge that I hope that other people are going through. But I don't know if that's the case. Aye, but I have gone through this, you know, every every so many years. It happens, right? You you have to be selectively naive to believe in the value off the idea that you're coming up with. Especially when at the end of the day you're selling a product or convincing someone to buy more beer than they need or stuff like that.

There's a there's a there's a certain limit of how much beers.

So you know, every now and then you come back to question yourselves like you know, what am I doing? Is this important? Why should it be clever? Why can't I just, you know, do this a 12th commercial that just said, Just buy the beer already and that's it. Why do I make it pretty? Why do I make it fun? Eh? What is the value in that or if it's, you know, the signs, like why? Why bother Make this special.

And with an ad that is particularly a hard because you're making something that is gonna disappear in a couple of weeks. And then it's gonna be substitute by another campaign than other agency came up with saying that. Oh, you're old and she wasn't good. I'm better than that one. And, you know, and all of a sudden there's this cycle of this disposable art disposable, you know, energy and effort and creativity that is living there and all of a sudden substitute by new message.

So this happens in our industry to write, like people cycle through designers. They have people that quit or they go through agencies or whatever, in the things that we do are also very term temporary. You ex designers might think, well, the value that is that Well, while while we did this like, it impacted the businesses much Jesus, much like given that what you just said, like what provides that driving inspiration to you and your team when you know that those things might be temporary, like, how do you how do you negotiate in your head about like the value of the thing that you're that you're doing for the customers work with.

Like I said, I've had this problem several times and then I solve it and get and fall in love again with the magic. I have solved a different ways every time. One way in which I've been able to solve it, including with my team, is focusing on the process. The process is the most beautiful part of it. I think I am, because what you ship, what you what, you you're finished product. That's the You know what's limited. That's what dies in a couple of weeks. Once the media buy is out and that ad is no longer running, even if their ad is, you know becomes pop culture, then that's a different thing,

because if you add becomes pop culture two years from now, people were making references to it because, oh my God, you know it. It went beyond advertising, but when in dozen your experience with your team and the creative process, it was still a beautiful thing. It's the difference between being a world famous band and being a garage band. When you were a teenager, the beauty of that moment was still special. You know, one of them was able to be famous and their songs are gonna be remembered forever. And the other one that songs are gonna be remembered by the small group that was inside that garage when that was happening. But it's still love. It's still magic, right? So if you if you focus on your craft and if you focus on on the process, that will still be special, this the love will still be

there, Do you? And there's no right or wrong. Answer this, but I'm curious. Do you feel like you put those pressures on yourself to be imaginative and creative? I'm sure you have to be to do your job. But how to what extent do you feel like it's your responsibility to teach other people how to imagine and be creative? Are you still like aggressive with the task that are given to you in the way you approach it, or or the balance between, like mentoring other more junior associates and teaching

them how to be? So your question is specific to my not just my field, but specifically to my position as a creative

director your position, but also what you feel is important to you at this stage at your age, like where you're

so to me, is crucial to be making something it to be participating in the creative process and not just overseeing other people that are, you know, doing creativity. And I'm watching them from afar. And it's a very, um from a very selfish standpoint. It is like I get pleasure from that. I get happiness from coming up with stuff. So the balance there is while you're mentoring a group of people and trying to create the environment for them to have fun and for them to be as creative as possible. If you want to participate as well, you have to be careful not to just end up making them feel like you're competing with them in ah sport, in which you're the judge, you're the referee because it's messed up like if you're if you're playing this game and you know not not the coach because the coach would be, you know, mentoring you and that's it. But if you're the one selecting the ideas as well,

you're kind of like the filter, and it's not fair. If you're coming up with ideas and you're the filter as well, you can make them feel like it doesn't matter how hard you work. I want to pick my you know what I mean? So to me that there's a huge balance of being able to compartmentalize and to be objective and, like it tried to come up with something that you love but also, you know, not make your team feel like you're just competing against them and not letting them, you know, bring the maximum potential.

Yeah, so since you said Team Great Segway into what what I was really excited to talk about, I think a lot about teams like that's one of my probably primary function is to figure out like, How do we do this together? How do we make people's decision to work at our company worthwhile? How can we think about the process that processes revolves around teams and all that sort of stuff? I think about obsess about it, and one I didn't work in advertising for a long time that I spent maybe a year or two working at a couple of interactive advertising agencies and the first thing that I noticed when I arrived at one was that relationship between like, you know, an art director of creative director and writer. And when I hang out with you and you talk about the people that you work with, like writing counterparts, whatever, you literally refer to them as partner, Yeah, that's a very powerful thing, right?

I think. Yeah, because in my industry, I've never heard anyone refer to one of their counterparts as partner. And I think that I want to unpack that a little bit because it's something that because I obsess about this, I've tried to do everything that I want, like the you know, you know, certain people to feel like they're these other teammates are their partners. They're actually in it together. Where does that come from? In the advertising business that two colleagues have referred themselves as partners? What does that mean, like, what does it take to do that? And what do you think? The value of that

ISS. So there's there's actually an even deeper layer to that's when you're in a Hispanic ad agency. The word that we use in Spanish is Dobler and, um, the word for partner in Spanish. If you just hear the word partner would be So seo, which is more like a business partner, Dukla is kind of like even more, more personal, almost like it's not literally life partner. But it's almost like Maurine, the camp off life partner than business partner, right? So it's even deeper and more intimate. But I just wanted to give that context that it's even more intimate in Spanish. So where that started in advertising is that you would match a visuals person with a words person, because back in the day you had to have an artist that would actually be able to draw,

you know, a new image when there was, like fish advertising with a it, you know, smoke filled. So that person was needed to be able to draw, to draw that image and to cut it or whatever. And their job was. The responsibility was the visuals only, And they were that that was where they had to say and the words person it focused on, just you know what the words would be in that image. So that's where the partnership started with visuals and graphics, art directors and copywriters. Yep, copywriters that then different fields started to come into advertising, planning,

strategic thinking, et cetera. So a copywriter was basically did the job off the writer and the strategist as well. And the visuals Guy would only do the visuals, so that has changed throughout the years. And I think everybody is expected to come up with ideas, period. There's actually a book, a book called Idea Writers. Very Good. And it's because of that evolution that has happened in advertising that now everybody just comes up with idea. You still have to have specific skills that maybe are geared towards writing and give stores. Think, sign, but a You still have. You can see now partnerships don't bless that are two writers or two art directors because that that line is a little bit blurry now.

But I can tell you the story of me and my Dukla when I started in advertising and how that's affected me personally and the importance of that in my life. So when I was an intern at Latin Works now called 30 Year, I was there an intern for like, seven months. I was an art director as an intern and then at the end of my internship, I I asked, you know, the boss like, Hey, I would like to I would like to get hired. E. I need a job. I love this place and I want to keep working, But I need a job and he's like, Okay, let's stop in January So in January,

he sends me an e mailing says, Oh, I sent him an email in January and I say, Hey, when do you want to meet on Monday? Because he was going. He asked me to bring my portfolio and he says, Let's be that 9 a.m. ready to work. You're going to be a writer and you're gonna be working with this guy. And I had never met the other person and I was not a writer, but But I wanted a job, so I just I took the writer job. The other person was one Pedro in silence. He came from Mexico. He was just hired as well, and he was assigned to me and I was assigned to him,

and I think I don't know. I don't know if he took it that way, but I took it like this is you know you're going to war and you have to protect this. You know, this is the soldier. This is your partner. You protect it with your life and your assigned, you know, you're you're bonded. And, you know, that's how I saw it. And that's how it happened. You know it it was an instance friend for me, and it was like, Okay,

let's go find you a bed. And I care because he had just moved to Austin and it was like they had assigned me, Ah, friend that I had to instantly you know, it it's a little bit different because we're both from we were both not from Austin. So the line between work and life was getting blurry, right, threat. But we grew together a lot, a ass partners of each other. He had actually more experience in me, and he taught me a lot in that process. But the partnership was beyond work. It was more personal, right, and in turn that that's became reflected in the work. I think when we worked together that this relationship, because it's more than just work, this relationship flourishes and you see how that evolves in the work that you're doing.

It's really interesting. You know, I think that my opinion of the world is that most great things most great outcomes, most challenges, most pain, painful things usually happen when communicate occasion is either great or terrible. Yeah, so when two under the context of thinking someone as your your partner around a project or a partner on projects, is that the way you know? I see you guys, like, worked there a long term that some people are just partnered up for a brief time. But like, what do you think is necessary for being a great partner to someone on a project for even what? No matter how the size of it. Like

I think, at least for me, it is very similar toe a relationship like it, like with with Maddie. You know, with my wife, it's commitment. I'm committed to this relationship and committed to making it work, because when you're coming up with ideas together, there will be appointed in which there will be a discrepancy and they're there. There will have to be some concessions, its head around. But at the end of the day, when we're when we're both going together in front of our boss. Ah, lot of times, you know,

maybe I had ideas of computer didn't like, but he stood behind it anyway, because we're a team and we're going to our boss and we're gonna back each other up. There has to be commitment to each other, you know, to be able to do that. And I would sell his idea, you know, with the same passion as if it was that I had come up with it. But that can only happen when you're committed. Toe the process. When you're committed to the individual that you're working with now that doesn't mean that you have to spend an entire career setting stuff that you don't like. If you don't like what's coming out of your partnership with your partner, maybe you know you shouldn't be partners if everything that you coming up

Or maybe you should have an open dialogue about prove that something Absolutely. Yes, I've worked in places where people have that sort of camaraderie, but they're scared to provide the critique. Yes, it's easy to get high fives. It's really hard to sometimes for people to be honest, but, you know you got a balance Things, but

wait like more than one occasion when Peter and I had to go to, like, a closed door room and like, hash things out and like, therapy And like, just like just like any relationship, because, yeah, you definitely need the open dialogue and resetting things just like in a relationship, you know, just like in any relationship.

One of the things that you mentioned that you been really interested in right now is the emotional operations of a company and culture like this is something that you talked about when we're we're planning this. But can you even unpacked what that means to you? And what is it that you've been thinking about specifically?

So I've been hearing a lot, especially since I studied psychology. But also it's it's become trendier. A the last few years, emotional intelligence, right? I've been thinking a lot about that in a parallel for that in business and in a company especially, and I idea organizations like agencies, right there are the business operations, and you could describe that as the hard skills and the things that you have to do the tasks at hand, et cetera. the emotional operations is what the people that are in a company feel like while they're in that space, surrounded by the people that are there is like a mental ecosystem, right, an emotional ecosystem where you know if you mess something up, if this person mrs up the trust in the organization than the other people that you know, start doubting because of that person's,

you know, spiking the punch in the organization. Then everything comes down that it especially for creativity you have to have this atmosphere of positivity, of positive energy and all that. And it's key for the emotions of the place that you're surrounded to be, to be positive and to be curated and protected as much as possible. So to me, the the emotional operators of organization is everything that is beyond the paycheck and beyond the time sheets and beyond. The ours is a purpose, right? It's it's the parts that were not really paid to do. That's a part that we want to do and that we would do for free right, because of fulfillment, the happiness that you have.

I think with the way things have gone, there's so many you know opportunities for creative people, designers in today's world, at different levels of industry and companies. And I do agree with you that, like process is extremely meaningful. It's, you know, it's I It is probably the most important thing. I think that I think about this part, too, because I think it's the thing that is may maybe on Carol or me, because people people are definitely gonna be like process in impacts, outcomes and and also like certain things like stress, happiness, fear, confidence,

whatever, bro. But I also think that once you, you complete something and you move beyond that, you look years down the road. It's the people that in the sort of environmental stuff that you're talking about, that actually remember, because processes will change stuff like that. So it's Ah, I think. I mean, maybe that's just contextual for us, because we have to be competitive on that little. We have to really think about culture and the environment and stuff like that, because our people could go anywhere. But I don't know,

like I think that I think it's starting to catch on that you know, you have to do something right, because like no one's been working us watch anymore. Yeah, no, I'm sure Like when you were getting started when I was getting started. Like, you know, you know, there's definitely, like way work that

the that The thing is that it's subjective. Yes, I was working until you know, some nights, 11 p.m. Two a. M. Maybe, you know, sometimes even till 6 a.m. Nobody asked me to stay. Yes, and that's the key off. If you have a healthy environment that is motivating you in that you're very excited about and you have that you know the selectively naive optimism that you need to be able to do that. You would do that because you want to your paycheck only, you know, covers until 6 p.m. Everything after that is because of love and because I want to. And because it's not enough, it's because because I'm enjoying

it's a combination of a lot of things that you said today, right, like that's absolutely true, right? Like people will do that if they love what they're doing. But if they have a partner that supports them, if they have a boss, that's not gonna redo there were, you know, like, sell their own ideas, like if those are just examples. But at a certain point, those other things aren't firing in the right way. It's like, Well, okay, I think sometimes that love could dissipate or

absolutely well. It's also very important the organization and the purpose of the organization. When you align with the purpose off the organization that you're working for, you work there because of the purpose. Not because of the paycheck, the paycheck, obviously you know you need. But the purpose is what gets you excited. The rest is just business. It's in kind of like minutia, right? If you don't align with the purpose, the moment that there's an issue with the paycheck or that paycheck doesn't increase whatever you leave because you didn't believe in anything, you just believed in your time, right? Obviously, I know that's very naive, but again, I think,

Well, I mean, what what has kept you at your agency for someone

purpose and people most like. The most important thing is the people that I work with through ups and downs. Being surrounded by the people that are surrounded by has kept me going and interacting with those people to me, and that doesn't that's not limited to the organization that I am in. But to me, you have to or I have to strive to be either getting inspired by someone or inspiring someone. If I'm not doing that one of those two things at some point in time, I'm wasting time in that moment and that. You know, it sounds big, but it can be small. It could be, you know, maybe inspiring my daughter, or like or getting inspired by her. Anything else is a waste of time. If you're able to work that into the organization,

you're gonna have ah, healthy, you know, emotional operation in your organization. If you're able to at any given moment in time at least be getting inspired by someone. And if you can't then try to inspire someone, anyone in there

so awesome, What are you hoping to accomplish this year?

So my thing that I'm always kind of working on his empathy, and to me, empathy is very important because of being able to imagine someone else's emotion. That's that's a huge thing to achieve, right, But I think that empathy is key to business Because, you know, the old adage sex sells its really empathy that sells. If you master that, you will be a master marketer, right? If you master empathy, you know your process is gonna be much more effective. Your sales are gonna be much more effective. Your creative process is gonna be much more work. Yeah, So I'm working a lot on empathy,

and I was telling my t s are year was coming to an end. Kind of like talking about what was what was 2020. For us, it's happiness. Our focus right now is happiness is a happiness year on DDE. Ah, purposeful approach to that is not just letting happiness happen, but making happiness happen.

So also making happy this happened, I'm actually excited. I mean, I'm sure we're gonna hang out this evening. What? Hope we're gonna hang out after this? Yeah, but But you and I are also gonna go to band. That's correct. G go. And I And money and Natalie And we're gonna bring our kids, and we're gonna go to bath and hang out in a resort. That should be fun. You go. Thanks for taking time out of your data to come here. It was really awesome to talk to you. I really appreciate

it. Thank you. Thank you for having me here. It's a pleasure.

How can people find you on the Internet and connect

with you anywhere? Diego Sanchez G U G O S m A c H e z yo Sanchez dot com I know there's not a lot of Diego Sanchez is so I have the although Handles for that.

Awesome Thanks everyone for tuning in this episode and we'll see you next time. Thank you. Hessel has brought to you by Fun Size, a digital service and product design agency that works with inspiring teams to uncover opportunities of all popular products. Bring new businesses to market. I prepared for the future. Learn more at front, says dot ceo. I'm Paige, a product designer of fun size. Now,