Hey, this is Hustle podcast about digital product design. I'm Rick Mystery or co host with Anthony on Raiders owner and, uh, owner of Fun Sized A Digital progress in studio in Austin, Texas. Ah, so way have a, uh, person from a far off lands a make believe land. Someone. Hey, um, called been Oregon is the vendors, the sisters. I live in sisters. Okay.

You know, I tell people been because sisters is just not any little town. So this is Andre Jorgenson. They he's been with fun size for awhile since pretty much the beginning. But recently, how long did you move? Uh, just over three months ago now. So about end of march at some point, right? So, Anthony, um, Andre decided he was going to move to Portland. And I don't know what the conversation between you two was like, right, cause he had been physically here is a part of the team, like since the beginning. And then he decided to like, What did that conversation go like with

you guys the first time he said he was in a mover. This second time, we actually

think I think there were maybe like, three times that I've told myself I wanted to leave Austin. Yeah. And, you know, I was just comfortable here the

first time. It was kind of shattering because, you know, I thought that was earlier on. That was maybe a year to go, and I thought we would actually lose, you know, really strong designer. This last time when he actually moved. I don't know if I actually believed him. Yeah, sure. Yeah. And if you want, If you want me to be perfectly honest, there was a part of me that was like thinking, Oh, please move to Portland.

Yeah, please. Why? Because you wanted a remote?

Because I thought, you know, fun size Portland would be cool. I knew nothing about Bend and all that, but yeah, I mean, uh, you probably you want to fill in what the conversation

was like. Yeah. So, you know, I asked if you and Natalie wanted to go grab a drink, and by that point, I was pretty much set on leaving. Um, and so I did. I had no idea how that conversation was going to go. I knew you were always, you know, encouraging. Um, but I was honestly I was expecting you to tell me, um that Because fun size was growing and we were kind of after this, like,

collaborative feel here in the studio that, you know, I was going to need to find a new job. Um, and that would have really thrown, like, a wrench and things because bend is not just somewhere where you can just move to and expect the fine work. Um, a lot of people either bring their, you know, take their jobs, or they end up just getting lucky and, you know, blocking something in there. So, yeah,

we we met up at the wheel, um, over on the east side, and I kind of talked for a while, and by the end of the night, you know, they kind of gave me the green light. And, you know, it was just kind of figuring things out from then. So Maybe maybe, let's pause right there. Have you ever been on the hustle podcast before? I'm not Actually. I thought I thought you had, but now I don't think about it.

No, it it only took me What, 44 episodes? Uh, basically, uh, well, since you haven't I mean, it seems weird to introduce you because we all know you so well. Maybe Can you give us us young people that are listening that I've never heard of you before? Like, just get a little bit of your background, and like what you do, you're fun size and stuff. Yeah, sure.

So, um, you know, for lack of a better term, I'm a product designer here. Um, I like to think of myself as more of just a a designer, because the term product to me, sometimes, like it really just kind of, you know, backs you up into this corner. Um, and so I, you know, create things.

And, um, yeah, I mean, that's the gist of things that's, you know, my role here. Um, and, you know, been good friends with you guys for a while now. Um, and, you know, I started with one size by being a contractor for almost a year, and then after not wanting to deal with the whole business management side of,

like, freelancing, um, you know, I decided to take a job.

It was Rick that was remember, like, way back when Rick was like a

like I think that guy Andres on the market. We should We should talk to him. Yeah, Yeah, right after I left Handsome, um, and that, you know, at that point at that stage of my career, I was just really burnt out, you know? And so, yeah, I'm sure it took some some convincing. It definitely took time, but, you know,

it all worked out. Um, the circumstances of, like, the fact that you had at one point felt burnt out. Like, Do you think that contributes to your desire to want to go, uh, live somewhere else and have this remote life? Yeah, I think that's part of it. I definitely think that the the crazy growth that Austin's been undergoing has been the major role. Uh, yeah, yeah, but I think I just got to a point where,

you know, I I love what I do, but I was just kind of I I wasn't feeling motivated, you know? And a big part of that for me, was to be I've always had this desire toe, you know, go to the mountains ever since way back. When when I went toe, you know, went up to Denver. Oh, that was What did it? Yeah, that trip that, you know,

when I just kind of cop to my car and just drove, Um, that did it for me. And then I came back, and I was just like, man, that's my goal. You know, that's kind of where I have to be. And so up until, you know, sometime last year, I was set on, you know, making it out to Colorado. And somehow Ben came up and,

you know, I had never been I've always heard of the place, But you know, when most people think of Oregon, they think of Portland. And that's what people ask me. You know, when I tell him I live out there they go. Cool house. Portland. Well, you know, I have to tell only Well, I'm three hours east of that across the mountains. Yes, that's not really Yeah.

Point of reference for you. What about? Can you just tell us a little bit about, uh, what's it? What's it like out there? Like, uh, how's the little, you know, just maybe paint a picture for all of our listeners. Thio, understand? Because I know a little bit about it just because I follow you on mostly Snapchat and Instagram spices and the beautiful pictures of the lifestyle you'll have out there. But maybe paint a picture for everybody that doesn't know about it. Yeah,

sure. So, uh, central Oregon. It's an interesting place. It's They call it the High Desert. So we're sitting at, like, 30 sisters is, like 3100 and change feet above sea level. And, you know, we basically sit, like, right on the edge of the Deschutes National Forest, Um,

and the Willamette National Forest. And that's kind of where, like, the Cascade Range starts. And, you know, that obviously goes up through Washington and then Canada. Um, so, yeah, we you know, it's a mountain town. Bend itself is under 90,000 people, so it's a relatively small, and that's the big town that you live. And that's the big time.

Yeah, where I live, it is, you know, just over 2000 people. So it is, you know, tiny, tiny, tiny, which is funny because I live in a tiny house. I knew that was coming. Yeah, um, and so you know, just the lifestyle up there is,

uh, it's similar to Austin in the sense that, you know, people are very much into the outdoors. You know, they just enjoy being outside whether it's skiing, mountain biking, kayaking, just hanging out by the lake or whatever. You know, Um and so that's kind of what drew me out there. And so the other cool thing about it, actually is that I kind of get best of both worlds, like I get the beauty of Oregon and everything that that has to offer. And then it also kind of has this, you know,

desert. He like Western vibe. And so it's, you know, I kind of get to keep that like, nostalgic, um, feel that Texas offers. So I'm looking at my weather app right now. I want to see Oh, it's 73 degrees In the end. Right now, I'm guessing it has nothing. It's not even close to the country humidity that we're dealing with humidity off pretty much non existent unless it's raining. That sounds

so. What I think is interesting is that most people that are freelancing or remote are probably like working in a home office, you know, um you know, I don't know if you guys heard that Audrey was in a tiny house. Well, I think it's kind of cool about that. Is he doesn't take work home with him. He you know, he leaves. He leaves his tiny house. Any travels to somewhere else where he

where he works? So you use that. That was another thing. A detail. Maybe the point. You go to, like, a co working space out there and, like, work there and then, yeah, yes. Oh, Ben has this really awesome tech center is what they call it. And within that text center, it's, um,

you know, comprised of a couple of different companies. They have, you know, one design agency there, five talent, and then they have a cool coffee shop, and then this actual coworking space. And so, yeah, I have a desk there, and there are actually a lot of really awesome creatives that work out of there, too. Um, Chris Hansen, he's one of the founders of Timber.

Uh, yeah, that design agency out of Jackson Hole, Wyoming, and super awesome. Dude, um, one of the code pennant guys is out there on dhe. Then some other You know, local freelancers, designer. When you say out there, you mean, been Yeah, in the in the cooler in the cupboard. Yeah,

I specifically Yeah. Okay, So, um yeah, I try and go there. I live about 40 minutes out, so I try to make it down there like, three times a week or so, just to kind of, you know, immerse myself in people because we're on, you know, we live on, you know, this 13 acre plot of land that's kind of out in the boonies, which I love,

but I think I definitely miss what I miss most about being here in Austin is being around people, you know? Yeah, it's so crazy to thinking about where you're at now because describing that and then juxtaposing that with where you lived right before, you're basically like downtown Austin. Pretty much, yeah, you, But like, I guess that might be something important. Thio mention about your kind of lifestyle, I guess, is the, um, the biking cycling aspect of it. I was wondering if that played a huge role because you seem to be Oh,

definitely. Yeah, that. I mean, that was the main reason why I wanted to go out there. You know, not only the mountains obviously, but mountain biking is just like my real passion. And so anyone who knows anything about my mountain biking knows that Ben is like a hot spot for that sort of thing. And so, yeah, coming from Austin, Like you said, I was four miles from the downtown, and it was I mean, I mean,

just a complete culture change. Yeah, um, so you didn't go and get food, like, you know, in the middle of the night. A restaurant, right? No way. Definitely learned that lesson the hard way. A couple of times. Yeah, we'll be, you know, hungry at,

you know, super late at night. And you just kind of have to make Do with what? You got it. You guys don't have favor or seamless web. Yeah. Yeah, I might. I might apply to work for favor. You know, I could be the only driver. Yamaha Chief Wheeler. Yeah, way

had a previous episode with Ben Johnson from elegant see goals. And I was talking about how implore has some dude. He was talking about how important where that you be inspired about where you live and how that could impact your work. And I think everyone's different. You know, some people get inspired to leave a small place and go to New York City. Some people like me get inspired to go Dawson coming from something like New York City. For someone like you, like, really wants to be, it's really important. And it's really hard when someone was moving to another place when you think about what you're gonna lose, like the camaraderie and the happy hours and stuff like that. But, um, you know, you have people need to be inspired,

and I think it's important for people to consider these things because I think a lot of people, if they're able to think outside the box, would limit themselves to what's available in their geographic area. If you're if you're able to sort of work with people around the world and location is an important, then you can work with the best people you want. Wherever they are, that's that's interesting. But I have to be honest, like I don't you know, like I just assumed that it's difficult for you. Maybe it's not, but, you know, because the way we work in the office, very collaborative. We hang out each other's deaths,

and we critique each other's work and we're all around each other. And you don't have that were curious. Like, how do you How do you mimic that? Like, howdy, Or how do you deal with it? Like, what does your day look like when you're working with other people?

Yeah, well, I mean, to be honest, like you can't really mimic it. You know, um, I can be social, but I can't work with people out there like I did when I was here with you guys. Um and so, you know, that's just kind of one of those things that I knew I was going to give up. Um, But like you said, being inspired is huge, especially for a designer, because it's really easy for us.

I feel like to, you know, kind of reached that creative block and kind of just, you know, become unmotivated. And that's kind of where I feel like I was starting to get close to and just, you know, it just so happens that I'm inspired by nature, and I love being outside, and so I, you know, traded in the collaboration for inspiration. So would you say that because you were not motivated before. And now your remote that you are now re motivated. I'm sorry. Yes,

though yes. Yes, for sure. Um, you know, I was I was talking to Johnny just yesterday, and, you know, I was telling him how I It's easier for me to, like, sit down and design now and, like, put in all the hours that we have to put in. Um, you know, because I know that everything else around me and all other aspects of my life are,

you know, good. Like I'm happy with them, you know? And when I was here, um, I was always I was always, like, thinking about you know, where I could be. And I feel like that was kind of it was taking its toll on, you know, my creativity. Yeah. You're just in an office and wishing your right shredding the do they say shut in the nar for, uh,

yeah, Well, come on, give me some. Uh, give me some terminology for a mountain bike. Life, man. Someone by Klingons. Yeah. What will the hot term up there and Ben is staying loose. Um, and that is completely opposite to mountain biking. here in Texas because because it's so dry up there, the trails are extremely sandy. And so you're kind of just You're always stand loose, man. But what does that mean? Ah, there's very little traction between you and the ground.

What part of the conversation when Andre left is, you know, talk to Natalie and we realized Okay, there's Let's look at the reality. Okay. However, that house is gonna play off talkto under. It was like, Dude, like, not gonna tell you not to go because you're my friend. First foremost, you gotta do what you want to live once, but, dude, I gotta be honest with you. We don't know how this is gonna work out.

We have never had a remote employee before. In fact, we had always been kind of against it, and I think we looked at a few options, and we talking way talk about this often, which I think makes it a very positive relationship. What of what the future looks like? Is it you know that it you know, this doesn't work out for you or for us. And we just need to keep a pulse on that and be open and honest about it Or is it working out? And you just, like, want to be remote and kind of do your own thing and then work, you know, dial in to fund size and remote with us? Or would you want to recreate that culture in another town,

you know, and build a team around you that could do that, Which is interesting kind of opportunity, you know, for us as a company, because you've been around since, you know, before it was even a formal agency. You helped build our culture. You've worked with all the P. Everyone knows who you are. So it's only natural that, you know, if someone's gonna make something work like that somewhere else, it would be that it would be someone that was a part of that. So I don't know.

I don't know. I mean, there's no right or wrong answer in this stuff like either this stuff, you know, stuff doesn't work out or it works and you keep you keep it going or you It's working out so well that you dial it up a bit. And so I think that's where the conversations are now like, and there's no answer to it. But those are the kinds of things that Andre and I talk about now.

Do you think it works for, like, basically more companies should try to explore, like, options like this? Or do you think it's sort of like secluded to our specific dynamic? Um, well, I don't think that it could just work for anybody, right. You know, um, it's funny. I've had, you know, quite a few people now reach out to me and kind of ask how it's been going on. And so the interest is definitely there,

especially now. I mean, it's so easy to work, you know, remote. Just because all you really need is internet and obviously, like a healthy relationship with the people you work with, which I think we have, you know, despite me being remote and the collaboration limitations, you know, we're always active and chatting and on the phone, and, you know, like, still cracking the same jokes that we cracked down here,

you know? Um, so, yeah, I think you know there. I don't know. Uh, you kind of have to have the right mentality and know what you're getting yourself into. Um, and So I do think that if there are agencies or designers out there that are curious about it, that they should definitely try it out, because I think that they'll, you know, probably surprised how well it actually works, you know, and their agencies and companies out there that are 100% remote.

Yeah, you know. And so you know, although I don't know if that is, you know, for agency like us, that may not be the best thing, you know. Well, I mean, we're not huge, but we have a few

people on our team. There's pressure, you know, from a business perspective. You know, Rick and I talk about all this time of time The way that the market's changing and one of the things that's changing is there's not a The demand for the work is increases every year, but also every year the budgets go down, so demand has increased but budgets down. So if you think about design studios in major city centres like San Francisco, you know New York, I'm not even say Austin is on that map. It's getting harder and harder to afford top talent to keep up with that game. So I think some people are realizing that crap. You know, I'm limited to this town. Pull in this location. I want to hire the best of the best.

And I also think about budget. So why not hire Jim, who works in Tennessee? Some people do that in some people, like Todd Todd from four kitchens here in Austin to the, you know, you know, like, two weeks ago, they pulled the plug. They just continue to using an office at all with 30 people. No office. Cut that overhead out. They have places that they can rent when they need to do a design sprint or when you have a meeting, but or when they need to get together. But they have They don't have that burden anymore.

And not only that, now they can work with anyone, anyone, the world that they wanna work with. Yeah, but But he told me that there was some big things they had to learn. Like they try to do it once and it would interest in work and yeah, and also it was even even even if he didn't want to do it, it was the way the culture and the company was changing, you know? So I don't know nothing.

Yeah, and I mean, there are, you know, they're ton of tools out there nowadays that allow it allow that process to just kind of happen, you know? And like, slack is a big one. Yeah, well, before slack, I mean, we were using what? Google hangout. Oh, my God. We were remember that that was barely Remember that.

I can't believe. Yeah, sorry. It was a while ago. Um, but, you know, there was no, there was no aspect of, you know, chatting with your team. It was just like you hang out with you chat with your little hangout group. Um, and so I feel like And there was that time, actually, if you remember in between moving from that office up north to coming into this space,

Um, where we worked from home for a few weeks. Everyone wants remotely something. And I found that extremely challenging. Yeah, you know, I have hated it, so yeah, I don't I don't like it. Yeah, um, but yeah, I mean, I guess to be remote, you kind of have. You need to be disciplined,

you know, You need to just be there, you know, because you guys don't know what I'm doing. All of it is a plan like, um, particular, like activities around times where you know that it's not gonna be easy to access like the rest of the team. Like, Oh, I got to do some sketches. I could do that around 11 a.m. But that's, like kind of when everybody's, like most mostly around. So I'll do this, like in a different time.

Like you kind of think of the work is blocking it around, um, availability of the team, or do you just pretty much just go normal and, uh, no. Yeah, I think it's just kind of normal. Okay, um, there's only, like, an hour difference, though. Few hours, others two hours.

Okay. Yeah, two hours. But it's funny because I feel like the time difference hasn't really affected much. Sure. I'm getting up. I'm a morning person. That's something. That's why I I'm about, you know, 6 30 every day. And so, you know, most people don't start working here until what nine, then? Yeah, maybe. And some

people earlier, but

right. Yeah. So you know, the days that I drive into Bend. I'm usually online a little later, but when I'm working at home, you know, I I'm online. Probably before most people are online here. Do you have a desk? Your house. So, uh, no. Like when you work in your house like you just like on the bed or something, are? Yeah.

So I'll throw in a little plug here for the eye skelter. Uh, lap desks. Oh, cool. Awesome. For anyone who's, like, meeting like a little lap desk for Gino. Um, I don't know if you just want to hang out on the couch or whatever. It's great. I have I got the one where it's got, like, the mouse pad on one side and then the little white board on the other side. What?

Yeah, and yeah, it's just really nice. It's a well made product. Um, you know, just company doing really cool things. Sweet. I'm looking at it right now. It's pretty cool. Yeah. Do you have one that has a little iPhone slot? Whatever it is, it does have the iPhone slot. Yeah, I have a whole say.

Yeah, So your laptop can kind of Yeah. So it doesn't overheat So this is This is this, uh, Lap desk thing is kind of how you are, like, maybe two days a week or something. Uh, well, it's a combination. Honestly, I use that. And then, um, I just built a breakfast bar, which is really awesome.

And so, um, I, you know, sometimes move to that. And then is it, like, ergonomically challenging, though in the tiny house, Like, do it like working, you know, during the day. And, uh, you know,

you don't feel like right. Well, I mean, if you sit for long enough, Yeah, but, I mean, that happens kind of anywhere, you know? And I'm always getting up and, you know, doing stuff anyway, So I just Yeah. Okay.

How do you, Um So I assume that a part of what you're saying is that you have having to be disciplined, Motivated? That It also means you have to be willing to take some extent to work alone. Like t think about the problem alone, execute the work alone, have conferences and your work. Yeah. How do you in? But when you need to like, how do you, um how were you able to get like feedback from your teammates at the times when you need it. And in a in a way, that works. Being remote.

Yeah, well, I will say that that's probably the most challenging part of working a remote. Um, I just have to be proactive. You know, I can't expect anyone, um, on the team Thio come out, you know, toe reach out to me and be like, Hey, show me what you're doing. You know, cause add a side on a mind type of deal, right? I'm sure it's very easy to forget.

Like, Oh, we have a designer across the country s o I. I'm the one that has to, you know, always reach out and, you know, asked for feedback or ask for just, like, a brainstorm session or whatever I'm needing at the time, Um, and say, yeah, that's definitely, you know, the most challenging part because you kind of have to just a combination of just,

you know, doing that and then doing it at the right time, you know? So I don't know if there's gonna be a too much of ah, like, uh, derailing subject, But I'm kind of curious, like when you first told me tying a tiny house. I was just like what? What? Yeah. Okay, Uh, I guess, eh?

So what? Like what? Just can you talk about that for a second? Like why? Why a tiny house? I mean, like Ben for sure. For the bones and whatnot. But why, specifically, a tiny house? Um well, I'm I'm sure most people are familiar now with the crazy. It's just catching on like wildfire. And we've all seen the shows and all that stuff, and I don't know, um, I don't know why. It's a combination of things. It's a combination of

one. It's hard to find property and bend, right? It's like, Yes. From what you told me, it's, like, impossible to find a place to live there.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, but I will say that I think we're pretty much set on the whole tiny house idea before we decided on Bender. Anyway, um, so it's It's a combination of, like staying out of debt as much as possible, right? Not going, you know, $300,000 on a home. Um uh, the ability to kind of just if we wanted to, Which we don't plan on it. But if we wanted to,

we could, you know, tow it up, hook it up to a truck, and we'll build whatever we want. And you just sort of, like rent a part of a locked from somebody who owns land out there or something. Yeah. So we ran. Um, not part. Well, we have it on a part of a lot, but, you know, we gotta have we have access to the whole property.

Um, not that we just walk around all day. Um, yes. So we found this awesome lady who she's kind of been into the whole movement, like for over a decade, and she was just willing to help out, You know, someone who was wanting to get into it, you know, And that's probably the most challenging part that anyone who is doing the whole tiny house thing that faces is finding a place to put it. Because technically, it's legal. Yeah, like if it has, we matters.

It has, like, wheels or not, and stuff, right? Yeah. So basically, it's it's built dozen RV code, and you're technically not allowed to live in an RV year round. I think you have like, six months or something. Um, so yeah, that's kind of what makes it illegal. Sucks. Yeah,

it's unfortunate because it's a great solution to the whole affordable housing crisis that you know, a lot of cities air facing. And it's making it really hard for people to get into them, especially the people that you know would benefit most from getting from living in a tiny house. You know, like I am probably not someone who, like, needed to do that. Um, I just wanted to, um and there are a lot of people that need they don't need to do it, but But the lower the lower personal overhead basically affords you the ability thio just freedom to do, do what you want. Well, like with your money that's not is tied up on like whatever. Like the normal percentage,

like 30% or something of people's income just goes straight to like living. Or maybe it's 25 or something. Can't remember. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. And then you think about like, you know, houses. They're great. Big houses are always just like Oh, man, that's awesome, you know, um but I think at some point like,

you know, we started kind of measuring success toe how big your house was, and yeah, if you really think about it, you know, like, let's say you have a 2000 square foot home. Um, I I don't know if there's any science behind this or what. I'm sure everyone's different, but you don't use all 2000 square feet, you know? And so it's just kind of like the idea of using everything that you own. Um And so yeah, it's it's great. I love it.

I don't feel claustrophobic. I was really nervous at first. Um, yeah. Can I have a question that just popped in my head earlier today anyway? Do you have a bathroom in there? I don't know. Yeah, You d Oh, yeah, we're doing the whole composting toilet thing. Okay, so we boop in a really fancy bucket, and then you use your poop Thio grow crops. Yeah, Not that there's much growing in Central Oregon.

Gross season there, I think is like, three months. Um, did they call those plop crops way? Uh, yeah. Anyway, sorry for my determine. The conversation was just kind of curious because, you know, that's if you want to live in a tiny house and been organ, It's just not, you know, up until this point hadn't really been an option to do that and also work for, like a modern agency that's really pushing the envelope and working with cool clients and stuff like It's like You got to kind of take what you can get in a certain area.

This'll is, You know, this whole thing is actually kind of closely related. Somewhat. Thio episode Actually think with this subject, spanned a couple of episodes, but just related to you. The geography right? Like the quality of work that could come out of any particular town. And, like psychologically, what on agency thinks of or a person thinks of when they think, Oh, this guy's from Bend, you know, they see,

like work that comes in It's like, really, really good, like, Oh, yeah, this is a designer from New York, so you kind of expect it. Hold out a higher level of quality, and then it's like somebody comes out of like somewhere you've never heard of on. It's good. It's, like better because you're like, Whoa, he's doing this and he lives in Bend. You know,

I think we talk Tobin Johnson about that. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I think it's kind of interesting that things were going that way. It's

also interesting for me, not not because it's dollar signs that are going off, but it's more about like, Oh, yeah, like that's a vory, uh, unique regional area, just like everywhere else is. But like, you think about it like a certain kind things you confined in Austin and Austin, companies don't really want to work with people. You know, people want to work with people local. And then over there you got different kinds of companies to work with, you know, and and a whole different range of things active sports and lifestyle brands and stuff like that that you and so I I'm excited about you know, the connections that you'll make in your ability to connect yourself. And maybe hopefully you know, the crew here with with the with unique opportunities,

right, right. And I mean, that's the goal. Right? Is I want to be able to work with people up there, you know, especially because Ben really isn't on the map yet, you know, Um and I would have noticed eyes that the the designers and the people there are really wanting bend to kind of come up and be known as this like small little tech hub. Because there is a lot of talent there. And I mean, there's, Ah, there's a company out of the car working space, you know who are working on bots and robots and stuff. There was,

you know, just got featured. And I think on TechCrunch um, which is not, you know, eso. Yeah, I think there's a lot of a lot of stuff going on there, and but people aren't, you know, they just don't think of it. You know, it's kind of like the whole thing of, you know, just needing to be in AA a tech centric city like San Francisco to kind of strive. And I couldn't disagree with that more.

I think it's easier. Sure, you know, like and work and stuff in some ways, right in other ways. Harder. CSIs, like Morgan may be cutthroat competitive or something. Yeah, but I hear it's like, really easy to go and get a job there. It may just be a job that lasts like three months, right? Yeah. You're probably not gonna go to the unemployment line if you're finer in San Francisco. Rave.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So yeah, man. Well, um, we're kind of rounding around the time that we typically wrap up. Um, yeah, I know, right? Is there any, um, any projects, like thing that you're doing creatively other than design or anything that you just wanted,

like, a plug or talk about real quick before we wrap up? Um, yeah, actually. So and, you know, Anthony and I have been kind of talking about this, and I've been talking about this with some people up there, too. But one thing I really want to do is kind of offer, like our clients a, um, like a unique experience. You know, um,

call it a retreat or call it a getaway. You know, um, but I want to be ableto, you know, have people come out to me and kind of, you know, be immersed in this cool area where you're not just going out and getting drinks every night. You know, you're doing like, you know, I don't know nature stuff, camping and, you know, kayaking and all that was awesome. And then just kind of,

you know, use that as inspiration and, you know, work while you're there, but work on a more conceptual level and then get up. Just get away from the norm. Just get away. Yeah, And, you know, we're talking to one of our clients the other night, and they expressed interest in that, you know? And then that was actually the second client that has said that, you know, they they would do something like that.

And so I think that there's just something cool there. Um, you know, that ties to what we do in the company and also the lifestyle that I appreciate, you know? Yeah. So So that's something like, kind of like you're trying to figure out how to make that a thing with Anthony and stuff. And just something you're working on. Like, uh, I was like, you know that working towards Yeah, I don't know that I'm trying to figure it out. I think it's just, you know,

waiting for the opportunity. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool, actually, because one of the better experiences and more just interesting things that I've ever had with fun size was when we went to Finland to do workshop with these guys. Super jealous. Yeah. Sorry. That whole trip. Yeah. And even if he was amazing, like the they took us all off sites in these little like cottages in the woods. And we were white boarding with them, you know? And like,

you know, they have, like, this cool, like, little catered food from, like, the local, like people cooking like local stuff and everything. And it was amazing, but we were working. We were just talking about, like, what do we want this product to be in dreaming up and then, like, we would literally just,

like, pull out our computers right there And just, like, work for, like, you know, three hours just coming up with cool concepts, and then we present them the concept and stuff. And, dude, you cannot tell me that, like being in the surroundings like, didn't influence like the work because it it was still, like, really, really good att?

Least in my pink. And I thought it was some of the better work that we had. Hell, yeah, I've done that. Work was insane. Yeah. I mean, I got you know, it was up at the bottom of some talking or some confidence launch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I don't know. You guys generated really good like response from everything. Yeah.

I mean, you know, call it what? You will calculate the success of it or or not. But either way, it was like, Man, it was amazing. So just thinking about like, taking a step back, Thio really conceptualize There's definitely something. There's an ingredient that you can add to that process that you can't get any, you know, out of anything out of the normal office. So, yeah, I think it's just about kind of like stripping away distractions, you know, and immersing yourself, like in a moment.

I think I do client work. We could do like a retreat for new employees. Yeah. D'oh! Company retreat kind of stuff. And, you know, you're right. Like you, we have access to, like, a really unique area in the logistics of the space on it. You should find a way. Let's find a way to do

it. Yeah. Yeah. So if one side wants to fund my property out there Yeah, that's it. That's fun sized port of Portland office or not Portland, did it? No. All right, Cool. Uh, what about game? Play your Twitter handle or somewhere quick peoples? Like the jerky laugh at what you do. Okay. Laugh at what I do. Yeah,

when you post a funny stuff and whatnot. Yeah, jerky, quince. Pretty much across the board at the journey. I still think you should change your twitter handle. Two beef jerky beef jerky or leave turkey. Beef jerky. Jerky, Jorgenson. Yeah, that's Ah, internal funds. Cool. Thanks a lot, man.

I appreciate your time. Glad to have you in the office here in the office for Well, I guess you're leaving tomorrow, right? Yep. Leave them on when you're a week. We should have set that. We're talking about you being remote and you're actually sitting here with us. You're here for a client? Yeah. Yeah. Here. Yes. Anyway, thank you very much. Thanks.

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