comes comes on Sixth Street in Austin. Someone a p someone to teach you. Interesting history. Interesting fax. Um, we learned some interesting fax today. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, well, is the hustle podcast podcast about digital product design. And I am Rick Messer. And I'm with Anthony Armendariz, my co host.

I'm Anthony. Hi. Hi. We've been tricked. We've learned some pretty interesting fax. Um, I thought maybe we would break in. Um, you know, do a

little icebreaker, and we are drinking right now.

I'm not drinking. You are. These guys were hustling. Yeah, they're rustling outside. So relevant. It's full circle. So, Anthony, you've heard the term or the the phrase like mind your p's and Q's, right? Yeah. Do you know what that means? I mean, before, Like I always said I had no mind. Your patient.

I didn't either. Apparently, it means mind your pints and court Sofia at the bar, and like, they're wiping down the bar like you pick up your pints and quarts. So, basically, manners manners are bar manners. Yeah. Do you have a lesson that you recently learned that you'd like to share right now? A lesson Yeah, that you learn from. Oh, Eric or Thomas South. Listen, Um

Well, um Oh, yeah, s o you know, the middle finger. Like giving someone

the bird. Yeah. Uh, where's that come from?

Yeah, So Apparently comes from medieval times when armies had archers. And when ah, opposing enemy was captured, they would cut off there. Middle fingers they can't share. Don't you need the middle finger to pull back the bow? So archers would,

you know, if they hadn't been captured and still have their little fingers like, Hey, check

this out. I've still

got the middle way. Just learned some interesting facts outside. So there's your ice breaker. Yeah, he told us, like a bunch more. Some of them are less clean thin that. But we'll just leave that there. Yeah. Yeah. So Okay, great. I feel like the ice is broken. Things point. Um, yeah. So?

Well, in the spirit of January 2016 New Year, we're talking about what we want to do. Ah, fun size in 2016. So, um, we're in a lot of transition at the moment. Yeah, what's going on?

Well, um, not really related to his podcast, but over the last few days have been working on transitioning all of my photos from my personal account to me, for my fund says account to my personal account and one of the things that I've sort of seen as like all the all these old photos about, you know, fun size historical photos and, like, kind of seeing how things have changed. I think that's a lot of things that are on my mind right now. Like you know, like is really internal Like all of us. So many things are changing. What what matters the most? Maybe it's hard to prioritize it. For me, it's like,

Well, a lot of things we would've been talking about, like, how do we just be better? You know, maybe, you know, the last couple episodes we talked about? How how can we amp up client experience with, like, you know more? I'm boarding a new employee or new design, uh, client or afford boarding. I think right now we're working on trying to make some more tweaks our process, and but I think the big things for me are how could I be a better leader?

Hold on. Let's circle back for a second. You said you're doing something or something with your photos. What? What was that rule about? Like, what do you do with your photos? Like where? Where did you keep them before and where you keeping them? Now,

uh, I've kept them on Google photos just because free storage. But I realize, you know, over the holiday that I just want him in one place and it was hard to manage. I've been moving them all to my personal account. Personal. What account? Google account. Google. Okay, I like the photos app. And it's an easy way free, easy way to store like our

archives. And you feel like you can capture. Are you saying you feel like you can capture like, ah, lot of the photos that we've taken of us just like working and stuff. I remember you hear hearing you say that like

it's a combination of like, I'll take screenshots were wrong. Google hangouts. Yeah, and you know, foot of us working and I've started to organize them, you know, like if you looked at my photo library lease and fun size, you'd see, like all the offices and the progression of the change in the office and then

because that's another big thing that's going on right now to you. Like we're maybe moving offices.

Yeah, I think one of you know, for us this space, I mean for anyone's been here. I mean, it's a nice big space, but you know, what do you do when you get a really good You know, it takes a lot of effort to build a company and get the right people together. And then when you have the right people together, I think the next step is Okay, well, what's the best space for this group of people that have developed their own culture?

Just let them thrive. Thriving. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.

And at that, at this point, it's really not. Not only, and I sort of guiding it anymore. It's more about like making sure that the that the space is there for that to happen, because the culture and all that stuff just sort of happens like it's. I think some of it starts with the founding members, like it started with me and Natalie and you, you know, Then you have more people on disorder, happens and so I think I think it is really important to have the right space. And so you know, my brain where it's been at the last three months is funding the

right space, the right space. It's a challenge. It is. I'm sure it's their similar challenges between any company that's looking to allow. The thing is about our space right now is we actually have a lot of space. We have, like extra space, but is it the right kind of space to like utilizing the way we want?

I think space is really important, but your point is absolutely correctly. We have way more square footage than we need, but it's just not designed the right way. Yeah, we can't go like we have enough space to grow. But if we grow in, it will be separated and and we've sort of made do with what we have. And so now it's like OK, well, there's an opportunity to design a space specifically for

us. Yeah, that's exciting. It's interesting because we're talking about like getting enough space for all of our members. But if you look at our team like this week were somewhat diminished because, uh, fee's been in Vietnam on, and he kind of caught a nasty bug out there. And so he's out and then

also got bit in the I would buy Spider

it in the hey is out and I and we have another designer, Andre Jorgenson. Great girl designer. He is. He's a little, uh, I'm just a bald friend. Now he's out an arm because he's broke his collarbone. Ah, poor chi man. Anyway, irrelevant somewhat. I mean, we're talking about the space is just funding us. We're talking about 1,000,000 more space. And right now, like our offices Super empty.

Yeah, really empty. Yeah, we have some people out, and Aaron are biz Dev guy Aaron O'Hearn is out at sea. Yes, at the moment, which sounds really cool. Lake. All stuff at CS CS that have seen this coming is really cool. Uh, I noticed our our client from 2000 actually 2014 aura, the ring that sort of tracks like activity and sleep and stuff they want, like an award, which is really

neat. It's awesome. It's awesome. Toa be associated with stuff like that. It's I think it's a really good year to be out there, too. I mean, I haven't really been following the news, but Aaron told me that the theme this the big themes is here. We're television connected spaces.

Teeger. Yeah, TV, for sure. I mean, healthcare is interesting. We've done a couple of absolute last year in the healthcare space. Um, which has been been really fun. Um, but the TV thing is is really on my radar. I mean, probably a lot of people's radar. Just being that, um, Apple TV, The newest Apple TV came out. Um, can I ask your impressions on just that? The u y of the new Apple TV? Real quick as a side step?

Well, my person is gonna be limited because I only use it like a couple times in a room that I haven't quite set up yet. But I guess that's enough to have, like, a quick correction. Yeah, I think it's beautiful. I think you know, the the the remote is awesome. Do you? I think it's great. It's a lot better than before. There's a lot more content, obviously, but and I don't know if this is like a standardized, but I've noticed that when you're in, like,

say, like Lulu are in a in a show and you're looking at episodes you're limited to, like one, you know, horizontal row, and it makes you squirrel horizontally instead of seeing more. There's some weird things about it, but I think you know the voice searching. All that stuff's cool. I think the remote school. I think it's a little bit sensitive to sensitive sensitive has all laid on my fat belly long drinking in that little fast word.

Yeah, and I have a child that is super young and he, like, cross over the couch and he's like, It's under the pillow or something in like it'll fast forward, Like what we're watching or whatever it's like, Dude. So, uh, how

do you ever, like, held the remote in front of him? And just like in the same, what would happen with his babies? Talk

he's not. Yes, yeah, to see, like, the Serie thing. Yeah, like that. They generally don't understand him, but also the apple remote for him is off limits. So that's

no. So since we're talking about the future, this is sort of part of my hand. Like the future. Remember a year to go, people we're talking about. Well, how The babies and the the youngest generation like they expect everything to be swipe a ble, remember? You know, you'll hear parents say, Well, they went up to the TV. I don't understand why I can't swipe it.

Right? Yeah. Touch the screen. Yeah.

What's the next thing like? Well, I can't speak to it. It won't work.

Yes, Speech is uninterested in, like, input

method. I said I talked to it. I didn't

do a thing. Dude, I'm having a flashback. Okay? This is gonna think this is gonna be kind of crazy. All right, 3rd 2nd or third grade? I was nine or 10 years old, and we were learning this new quote unquote software in the computer lab, and we were learning how to use, uh, Mavis Beacon and Oregon Trail. And the computer teacher was telling us about this kid that was like, using it because it's like it's it verbally asking questions like, Hey, would you like to do this? And they have to do text input like yes or no.

And the kid was just like, No, stop. What? Stop. I don't want this, but it's so funny, cause I just had, like, this flashback, whereas remembering like that like that was so ask, denying to think of like a kid saying like verbal voice input like No, are you like talking to? But at this point, like that's actually like, you know,

starting to get to the point where, um oh, man, that is how you start to interact with the software. Now is it's a verbal.

So stuff that is really interesting when you're designing products, do you? Okay, so most software is flat, right? I mean, it's, you know, you're looking at a screen or whether it's a mobile device or a computer, and you're clicking on something, you're tapping on something but more. You know, you're looking at a flat screen, okay? And you're pressing a button that doesn't button says words on it, right? Like it might say one word,

like check out right. But if long lines what you're saying, if the you know, if serious says to you like your search for you know, whatever microphone just came up, it's 19 AM Would you like to buy it right? The expectation is that you would say yes, like you would speak back to it because you're saying that, like the software and the interactions to be on the same level. Um So how long do you think it's gonna be before we need to start thinking about the way in, which is that software speaks to people. I mean, maybe it's so maybe on the two d level, maybe on the audio level. But that's something that I've been thinking about. What? Lily Li like voice and tone.

Yeah, like media may be interpreting tone as, like, ah, variant of the input. Can Ken software interpret sarcasm? Oh, yeah. I really want to watch that. Netflix. Thanks a lot. Hey, for you. What if they're like I'm sensing some sarcasm? Rick Anthony. Yeah,

I was on this panel a month ago. It was a user experience panel on one of Natalie's former co workers from New York. Happened to be there, motherfucker like, ask the most difficult question. He asked, Oh, how, like as user experience people, how do we think about and robots and interact with him?

How do

I shut my mouth? I just say anything and a couple of you'll talk, but it got me thinking like, Okay, so serious. The first step, right? You know, audio input, audio feedback. You're navigating software through that feedback, but view expand on that you think about Well, what if Siri was in a robot in your house? How would you interact with that? Um okay, so campy. John.

Hey, come for trying. Can you get me a beer? And let's say competition your robot crosses its arms, right? Does that mean that your android is, like, annoyed with you? Like like all these other sort of gestures, like or if you're if you're robots, looking at you in your arms are open. Does your does that represent, like, an interest in a conversation? So I guess all I'm saying is right now, the limit that we have is buttons and their labels

get because it's a screen were interrupted. At what point are we going to take that interaction out of the screen and into our gestures that are not, like, intentional, like swipe or pinch

or whatever? That's something I'm really interested in this year and several of our prospective clients right now. Some of them are really big names are asking specifically like, Do you guys have experience in figuring out software, voice and tone.

Do you have experience in the future? Yes. Absolutely. That's actually what we specialize in is the future.

Yes, we if it's the future, we got it.

So that's interesting. I've seen Terminator, so Yeah, no problem. I know what it's gonna be like. Little was. What were you drinking?

Um, we're drinking Buffalo Trace,

which comes from Kentucky, right?

Yeah. Actually, when I think we started drinking this, it was like, a lot more full

that maybe it's a lot more full than it is as full as it is now. What it's like, It's less so full. It's less awful. Yeah, I very angry. Okay, This

is a fact. So 2016 for me, it's about growing the company thinking about these new types of interactions. Well, what about you? What

about you? Well, well, before we go to me, what do you mean by growing the company? Do you mean just like growing the pure number that we have now, which is like, nine or 10 like growing them like as individuals? Or do you mean like you want to grow fun size like, numerically in terms of like people so I don't mean that to be a loaded question. I just be an interesting conversation.

So I mean, this is my opinion. Natalie isn't here to at her side to it. But when were dapper currents We were out there on the waves like we were out there in the ocean. We're sitting, you know, for anyone's being served serving as first time I've been surfing but was released really struck me about the surfing experience that ever currents was that it takes a lot of effort to swim, to paddle out and into the into the water, and then you float and why they're there. You're thinking, OK, this is Mother Nature. I have no control here. What's gonna happen? Which wave do I want, right. You can choose to take the simple and where you can choose to take the one that is where there's more risk.

Right? And either way you go, you're gonna you're gonna you're gonna be it's gonna propel you in a direction that you're gonna ultimately have to swim back out to. So it got me thinking when I came back, like Okay, So how does that apply to our company? Because I think the harder some of the major things we accomplished, you know, we we put together a really solid team. Most of us have been working together for 22 and half years. Um, we're all we all want to grow personally. We all want to grow professionally. We all wanna work on, you know, our ideas.

You know, we want to take on more complicated things. And so where I'm at is okay, well, it's where we're at is kind of like that moment we're on the waves. Like which way do I want? I don't take the easy rate way out and just kind of write it out or I don't wantto take full advantage of this moment in time that I have to see how how far I could get Take that risk, wait for the big wave. Right? And I think where I met personally is I'm finally okay with the risk because way our process down our teams in place. I have full trust. I've been I've learned to let go All these things that I never think I'd be able to D'oh! And you have a client service business that isn't, You know I mean, let's face it like companies come and go cos rise and they're popular for five minutes and they fizzle out. Yeah, you know, maybe right now we're having our our time. And so I'm excited about seeing

What? How much does well, are you saying we might as well brisket and go for the big kahuna is good for the biscuit? Yeah. I

mean, yeah. I mean, because if you think about it like, I don't know, um, that's where that's where I'm at. Alexis, that's very interesting, because I I think if I if I don't or if we don't, I think we might always ask ourselves, Well, what if? And that applies to maybe, you know, the office space that we talked about and maybe bringing on other people, other talented people that really passionate about working with that help us accomplish our goals. Maybe it also means trying new things that we don't currently do. Like development.

Yeah, that would be great. Something I'm really interested in is working with getting a development principal are discipline, you know, anyway, as fun size, because right now we're like, not not still what I like about fun size about working here is that like people ask me where fun says doesn't like, Well, we're a mobile company. Are we on Lee do design? And it's kind of like, really like, because Because most agencies make their money on development and this is not what we do in, you know, part of it is sort of like, Well,

we're designer, so we're not 100% sure how to efficiently managed, like in engineering, you know, but a TTE the same time, like I don't know, like, it's sort of backwards in some ways. Like people are like, Well, don't you wanna like have, like, this big business? You know, this, like,

huge team and stuff. And like, ever since the beginning, And even now, even though now we're poised to grow and want to grow like that's not the point is, uh, being being huge and stuff it's more about, like, what can we do with these small, very curated group of bad ass is what do we do with that? So,

yeah, I mean, even with development, like if we were to do it for me, it wouldn't be about the money at all. Even though I know it would be about the quality work

that we can't exactly. Because like, the only problem with our with our current, you know, team is that world designers and on Lee designers. And we want to build cool shit. And we have the great opportunity work with incredible engineers such as like, uh, I won't try to say his last name.

No one either. I was about

Will I win that Swiss into week? He's in a kick our ass. Here's word trouble way. Just

we just Totally He was one of the engineers at credit.

Siri Siri. Yeah, which is what we're talking about, right voice entry. But we had, like, great opportunities work with incredible engineers. But it's hard because every project we get we have to start over on our like relationship with the engineers. And Lynn. How good are they? Are they are they interested in, like making the y grey and making the U ex like, you know, are they just sort of, like tryingto get get through, like, their punch list?

But if we had engineering like, I have no idea how relevant this is gonna be to our listeners, this part of it. But, I mean, this is just our company and our growing right now it's we're wanting to get into that, Um, maybe in 2016 and they'll be great. And we've had a couple of really pretty good, uh partnerships with some companies that do engineering, and I hope that lost. But, um, I agree with you that it's not a monetary decision to get into engineering. It's, Ah,

it's very much a quality quality decision and collaboration. Well, I like what you're saying. Like Look, we got a good base. You know, we can kind of ride this out until, like, it fizzles out like popularity wise or whatever. Or we can kind of, um, re anti like any up. You know, like, let's let's go a little bit further, less Let's go for a bigger way This time I think this kind of kind

of awesome. So, um, earlier, when we were talking about CS, we're talking about CS. We were talking about other things, like outside of mobile, like the connected home television, right? We're talking a second ago. Hell, yeah. Um do you think that designers you know, individuals or companies air quickly, goingto have to start creating separate disciplines to learn those you know, like it's not It's not clear cut.

Like I'm only do mobile doesn't really do have designed some people to do both, But a lot of people only chose one of those pass. Like, do you feel like in the near future, mobile designers or Web designers? We're gonna have to decide. Well, I'm just gonna focus on TV now.

Yeah, I think I think it was, like, think of, like, a big, like leg agency or something. Um, they might have, like, a TV division or something, and that's all well and good. But, um, like with what I think we should do is just be open to, like, learning Whatever.

Is that next wave? You know what I mean? Like, we're designers like we craft user experience, and that's what we should focus on. Platform is not entirely irrelevant. Like we have to consider that, But, um, like we like good experience, and we like creating good experiences. So we should keep doing that, no matter what. Like, we should definitely not like, say,

hole. Whoa. We don't do connected home. We don't Do you know, um interfaces for grocery store checkout experiences. Like what? We should never say that. And we don't think we do. I think I think like this small, agile team that we have is poised to you, like, allow us to explore those things.

Um, many people on our team like to go bowling on Sundays. Yes. And if you ever been a bowling alley,

you've noticed that the inter fold on Anthony Armand. Ours get 54 in a row strikes. The last time we bald, I had to call it up. You have five strikes all throughout the whole game. But you have four in a row.

I really wanted to be.

That was impressive. You be Brian. Brian Miller?

Yeah. I really wanted

to be him on Twitter. He's at Brian at what? Brian? Shame him if you'd like to. Yeah, please seem him. I think he hanging deserves it anyway. Balling you are?

Yes, terrible interface is terrible. First bowling alley that contacts us. We're going to frame her face

work Absolutely. Here that bowling always give us a call. 1 800 funds way were talking about it like we're bowling Like Did this interface how awesome would it be? Did you just do, like, crazy, modern badass like you? I from for a bowling alley,

I think it'd be cool. Yeah, eso this whole connected. I mean, imagine that, right? Like eventually. Like batting cages and top golf is already there. Knockoff connected devices and oh, man. I mean, it's just so exciting.

Yeah, yeah, I'm totally man.

I'm telling you, it's gonna be a big year. Rick, what about you? Let's talk about you. Like, what do you think? In 2016

it was on your mind. So the first thing I'd like to talk about in regards student to me and what I'm doing at fun size is well, that the title that I've kind of been given and gone into and I've been titles are actually semi important. I think that the majority of designers and agencies would say that that's total B s. But anyway, um, you and I and Natalie had a bit of ah, you know, like a scuff when we're talking about, like, what was my real gonna be? Because I wanted to be creative director, and, um, you guys were like, I don't think that's right for fun. size because it's not in line like that.

Sort of like an old school agency title. And I was like, Well, that's what I wanted to do is creative director, But, um, ultimately, we land the dust settle. We landed on design director, and I started looking it up. The first place that I found a design director title was at square. Uh, and square obviously is, you know, a little bit more forward thinking, I think,

um, and of course, owned by that's owned by the guy who started Twitter, right? Or see? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, Okay, maybe there's something there. So I started looking into that. So I ultimately decided I'm gonna trust like Anthony and Natalie, like what they think you know, fits into our culture. And so design director was my title,

and I sort of rolled with Emily, right? Let's see what this What happens. And since then, like, I've seen just digital product designer digital product design director be like a title that I've seen again and again, and it's it's a little bit of a fad, maybe, but at the same point, like I think it is. So, uh, like in touch with what is going on with product design. Now it is. So I'm really happy that we let in landed on that and that you guys, you know,

had the foresight Thio, you know, raise a flag like, look, CD is not within our company culture. That's old school. We want to think about something else. So really

glad we did that. But But with that set like that and for those listening is because right now, the only service we offer his design if you and I think this will change because I've talked a lot of people and they say, Well, if you could put together a super team, what would it be? Okay, be a great design leader, a copywriter, a developer and a product designer, right? So I think you know, when you when you think on a broad scale like that, I think, yeah, it changes things, but I mean,

yeah, I mean, just to your point, like our reasoning was because of this moment in time, the only thing that we're offering to design

Yeah, well, anyway, made sense. And I think it's sort of like I've seen it, sort of circle around like OK, design director is is the think and anyway, so I've sort of fond of their role in sourcing. Things come around. So what I'm doing is leading to three projects with what we've dubbed as a product design lead. And so, like I'm working 23 projects where I have a product design lead, sort of like executing like the work, you know. And so we'll have tons of meeting with our clients around strategy and making making design decisions constantly. And that's really cool. And what I'm doing is weighing in the on the design decisions and making sure that,

um, we're sort of like going long term where we we should be going as like, a fun size experience. Yeah, sort of, um and D. That's exciting to me, like it's great. And I'll echo this before because you asked me. This question is sort of in a different episode, and my confidence is like 100% because of the team I have, like the the team I have to execute. The work is insane, like it's great, like our talents awesome. So because because I have like that to work with,

like It's great. And, um, it's It's like I don't see myself as anything other than somebody who is sort of like straddling a couple of projects at one time and just sort of like facilitating and helping make sure like we're on, like a path in our mixture backlog looks good. Making sure that the design decisions, you know, just helping, aiding or product. I leads, um, with whatever decisions, design decisions they're making. Um, and it's freaking fun, you know,

and like just contributing to design, like in small ways. But yeah, it's great. What

kind of advice would you give someone out there that is thinking about taking on a more leadership opportunity? What kind of guys would you give them about taking on that upper that responsibility and also still hanging? Still, being a designer,

that's that's exactly what you say is like you have to design. This is something you and I have talked about a lot of like. I don't feel that I can be respected by the people that I'm trying to like, aided in the projects. If I wasn't also designing alongside them, I I kind of took to get a step back from contributing Thio um, concepts of projects. I was designed Director Ron, because I don't want to be in the position where I'm like like pitting my designs against, like, the product signer That's also on it, you know? But like, if you're doing a design director, roll on another project, I will gladly and happily contribute a steak concepts, um, to that role.

I think that's really smart.

I've had I had to step. I had to not, you know, put my input in thio their concepts because we open up to everybody, right? Like you ever Look, we've got a conceptual round coming up whoever wants to jump in on this jump in on it. But I had to bow out of the concepts that I was doing Design director Roll on because I didn't want to pit my concepts against them because, you know, I

don't want I've definitely seen people go the opposite direction where they are trying to hang on to strongly to their design skills, and they're better, arguably better leaders and their designers. But they, like, try to force feed a certain design aesthetic on a client and where and don't

really use their team well in their in their defense, like it's hard to be like stepping into a management role or something. I don't even think of that as that. But step like thinking if you do think about that like, Oh, I'm a management, I'm like, out of touch with design like I don't I don't want to think of it. Is that like I want to be like in more of like, a serving position to the product design leaves that are working on, you know? But I also want to be respected by them that I can you know, I can I can hang, you know? So I've been e. Guess what tested question earlier about, like,

advice like to mean? Like, I have to be involved with design like I have to be actively designing, like have to be in sketch or photo shop or whatever. You know, pick your poison. But if you're not doing that like actively in some way, like I think you're slipping away a little bit on, um does this person that's telling me like what they think we should You right now Do they have the gusto to sort of do that themselves. If they think that the answer is yes, then I think that's a better, better place to be.

So I'll ask one more question. What kind of advice would you give to someone like me who used to do a lot design work? But for maybe a couple of years was so focused on management that that, you know, they didn't do any actual design work like right? Like how? What kind of advice would you give someone like me about how to keep

up with that? Take a week off, take a week off from leading a design team like altogether and just designed for a fucking week and just design like, I think that's what you should do, man. Honestly, Thio, just get back into it like I think you'll find that it's very freeing. You know, if you're a designer, your designer, your designer, tell the day that I kind of so like you're never going to forget about like the the good, joyous feeling you get out of, just like accomplishing like a good design, you know, like really good.

Just take a week off. Just Thanks, man. I think you should. I mean I've never been in the position your But if I was at liberty to distinct myself as like I need to get I need to recover my like, Oh, you like I love designing like anything about that. You should like

you know what? I think I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna I'm gonna set that as a personal goal for this year, and I'm gonna try that now report back and and 12 months and I'll let

everyone all right yourself out. That'll be a caramel dude. I think you should do it. I think you'd be so happy with the results. But anyway, um, yeah, that's ah, that's what I think. I think anybody leading designers and I really respect you sure, like the It's great being part of, ah agency that is led by someone who's the designer. It's taking me a long time to come to that conclusion. But I'm very, very, very excited that we're working f fun size with somebody who is. What do you call it? Um, like you can relate to what it's like to

work on projects. Yeah, I think for me it was last year was hard. Maybe the year before because I was coming to terms with things. You know, like there's something that happens when you grow a team that you don't realize, and that's that you're hiring people there to more talented than you. Yeah, if you're if you're doing a good job, you're hiring. People are

more talented. What's that guy? Sig Meister? Um, he had this amazing, like theory of like if I'm going to retire at age like 55 instead of retiring like let me take five like five of those years instead of $55 higher at AIDS Sick, age 60. And I think those five years and I'll spread them throughout like my thirties and forties in every like, four or five years or so. I'll take a year off and I'm not going to gear off from design, but I'll take a year off from Client Service is, and that year is gonna be dedicated thio self like betterment or whatever, like I'm just gonna get better during that time. Like I thought it was such a beautiful idea. Obviously, every time he said, like you took that year to just be a designer and not worry about the pressure of client service is like he said,

Every year after that, we upped our price because the design work was so much better, right? Uh, man, sort of mind. It was like a ted talk that he did. But, um, man, I mean, self investment is a thing for a reason. Who? Yeah,

And it's, you know, we don't you know, people in the work force these days don't have the luxury of always knowing that I can rely upon retirement either. So it's got no, definitely our future for thinking that stepping sick master had doing that. I think I'm I think I'm gonna try that. That's that's been something, you know, like I've been really down on myself because I don't really design him

where I could understand. I could understand that. But I've

traded it for designing a company which I convey you sickly product, but on a personal level. And I think that happens to a lot of people that start freelance cos intern and agencies, wherever they all of a sudden, like Alicia like woman, I think I think that's something to work on. And that's something that I'm hoping, um, we will keep me accountable to

you. Just designed, like a product that you wanna design with no client? No, like other input. Like just see what? How good is the design that you come up with in your own brain? And I think that's sort of like this interesting exercise that shows you like how good your ideas are. Somehow

we should we should talk more about this another episode because I've been watching, you know, like, kind of behind the scenes and some of the things that you're doing. And I think it's pretty interesting how you're, like doing a leadership role. But you're still, like, in the trenches. And you're still

doing stuff. Definitely making this up that psycho along, but seems like a good idea.

Well, um, I'm no, we're out of time, but it seems like we're about done. Yeah. No, we're little over anyone that the listens to this. Let us know what your goals for 2016

r food, By the way, thank you. Listeners have been blowing me away like our listen count has been up and up and up and up and up, and all we're doing is this hanging out and talking about stuff that were thinking about anyway. So it's It's almost like therapy for for us to, like, talk through this stuff anyway. So thank you. And thank you. Genuinely Thank you for listening to this stuff like and anything you guys would ever want to tell us. Like what you're going through If it relates anything to what we're doing, like please let us know like we might have you on. We might have a beer with you. We might, you know, just talk like it's it's great to do that anyway.

Um, yeah, I think which wrap up? But thank you so much Happy you're happy things. Episode is brought to you by the Iron Yard. The Iron Yard in Austin is now offering a 12 week intensive program in user interface design. The guard will teach you the tools and skills you need to become a professional interface designer and then help you find a job. If you're interested in launching a new career in tech and design, visit their website. The iron yard dot com scholarships are available for the summer semester, wherein user interface design at the Iron Yard. Life's too short for the wrong career. hustle is brought to you by Fun Size, a digital product design agency in Austin, Texas, at craze Delightful innovative products for mobile Web and beyond. Visit us on Twitter at fun size or visit our website, fun sized taco.