Howard Lindzen is the founder and general partner at Social Leverage. All opinions expressed by Howard and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of social leverage or stock twits. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and should not be relied upon for decisions. Guest may maintain positions and securities discussed in this podcast. Yeah, we're back three green days in a row. We have finally panicked ourselves into a bull market math. Dude, this is crazy as mathematically based on like how you measure things were officially now in a bull market just based on numbers. We crashed so hard and of rally 20% even though we're still having a horrible year. It's officially a bull market today. Yeah, go figure that. Go squeeze that it puts Imperial around that five away canoe. You're getting fan mail. No one knows who you are.

You don't give out your e mounted. Can people reach you people have. So not only do I get fan and hate mail by me, I get your fan and hate mail. I want to read the height of the hate mail. I only send you the good stuff the past stuff so bad. Okay, so I want to see that I want to see the family because I've never had a family before in my life. People actually think you're good looking. You're voices. Sounds better looking than you are so that take that as a compliment. Yeah, it's by the way. I Hunt reached out to me. What's up? I know,

I said. Thailand's finally getting tied down, he says. If the heat and humidity does nothing to stop the virus per but Trump No, Hans always has got his. You know he's Wikipedia over there. I just got his opinions all right today. Like I said, Kanoute, we have, Ah, the market's up So the panic has subsided the last three days. Now people should take a deep breath because while the panic may have selling, may have subsided things. March 26 tomorrow be Friday. So it's been two weeks since Friday the 13th when we were in the thick of this.

But ah, that cove. It cases are like shooting through the roof, so the news continues to get worse. But the markets are up 20% from the loves, and that is what makes investing heart. I joked that investing is easy, but now the people who are reading the headlines and sale sell my stocks. Ah, they may have. You know, maybe you should just think about things. The market has already had its panic, and it took a lot of calls today from people that didn't panic. And now we're, like,

wanting to sell. Um, and I don't know what they should do. I don't know what their long term plan is, but it sure was an interesting time toe by a little bit more a week ago. And everybody's rushing to sell. So and I don't know, like, this is how markets work. And like I said mathematically based on how far we've risen in the last three days, we're in a bull market. So, uh, color yourself confused. Very interesting. So we're gonna get oh Malik today on the phone.

He has lived through some tech panics. I said he's built a big business shut a big business down now works a true ventures as a partner. Uh, geek is as geeky as geeks. Maybe had heart problems. Has is a writer photographer. Ah, there's a great name home Twitter handle at home. Fantastic. You know, Pastor. Okay. And so he's lovable guy. He's like Herb Greenberg. But, like,

uh, more techie you were so early on Twitter, you should be at H. Yeah, but I just was so happy to have my name. Now I'm just Sumer. I just changed my handle, those umer I was the nibbler last week, and I'm the Zoomer. The, uh So a message from pay it off one of our portfolio companies it sent in and add and we had him on the show. Pay it off this adventure back team That's us building the next generation of B two b repayment solutions for student debt. They built the first federal debt a p i. That helps any fintech or financial institution. Address student loans with their financial service is product. The average boards saves $3000 per year from their personalized assessment enrollment functionality.

These tools are especially helpful right now during the cove in 19 situation. As millions of bowers are losing part of their income or their jobs entirely, companies using pay it off, say p I can provide immediate relief by enrolling them in income driven repayment plans and forgiveness options that paid off dot io p a y i t o f f dot io Kanoute, Let's get home on the phone. Oh,

hello.

Ur own panic with friends.

Great. Hi. How are

how are you? About a long time? No speak. You are Ah, you're locked down in San Francisco, but doing walks in the morning. Correct? I've been following.

That is indeed correct.

You're taking long walks in San Francisco?

Yeah.

How's how's the behavior there? What? What are you seeing?

I think much better now than two weeks ago. Are you in 10 days ago? I see much fewer people on the road, though There's a lot of people running on your bar code. Oh, when I'm out for a walk. So that's why I go up Beggared five and I'm back home by 6 30 Is that going?

And what? How are you feeling?

I'm girl, you know, just I've bean self isolating for not today is my day 27

I'm day 13 or so and I think Day 27 as you're concerned now more just about other people more versus you. I think you're clean at this point

I am more concerned about myself because I am a diabetic and I have a heart condition, so I don't want to take undue risk right now. That's what I'm self isolating God. Plus, it's just easier to not you increase the risk off infection

and 27 days. That's riel. So are you using Amazon far ordering in, like for food and everything? Are you going to the stores?

No, I have food at home. I have on person was kind enough to bring me got food, are cooking for her for the whole week and just drop it off downstairs and you know, that's it. And I'm missing my Indian. Bingo.

You're missing, you're in. If it's so, let's Let's I want to go back and talk about panics. This is panic with friends, and you've seen a few tech panics. They're forgetting no one's seen this, but you've seen a few tech panics. And so let's give ah, my stock to its listeners in the panic. When friends, listeners on my Twitter feed listeners Ah, some backup because you are an old ty had Herb Greenberg on the other day. Remember her dot com guys hilarious. He's living in San Diego. He just had open heart surgery. Like three weeks ago in Cleveland.

Yeah. Not know that I should

go up in my note. Yeah.

So I'm I'm I'm I'm not as old

as her. No, he's 67.

Yeah, I have been around, as you say. I currently work as a partner for two ventures in San Francisco early stage investment firm. And you're also fortunate enough to be your partners and stocked

with its That's correct. Tony Conrad.

So when you got that great Cohen Conrad

scarf Lis, Tony Conrad's better than scarfed. Tony Conrad is very

He relieved that debate to

another. So that shoe Ventress has done great deals like palate on you guys did Fitbit, I believe Blue ball hard WordPress you calling automatic. But I call it WordPress and, uh, in which some other famous names look. Just

bring a mouth pleaded do a security is one of the companies we did which was acquired by

Cisco. You did

ring and redid ring because acquired by Amazon. So I mean, you know, it's 200 plus cos I don't want to pick favorites. Kids.

No, no, no. But I just want people have a context cause True Ventress Been at this game? John Callahan's a legend. He was back in the old days. CMG I So you and you were around as a You're a media person. Before this, you were a reporter?

Yes. And before who I started and ran a blocked call giggle which was started in 2000 and one the other time off Another panic I do go. And before that, like just to give you a little context I was a reporter and the early days of the Internet I worked for UK And then I work for Forbes Forbes dot com I look forward heading Harold Bug business Business to point Go. I also started my blood digger home in 2000 and one. It became a company in 2006 which who had investigating And in 2000 and 14 I joined True as a partner

and the medias idea miss it at all. You don't You're starting to write a little bit more in your photographer. But do you miss it? That was a grind. I

Yeah, I don't miss the business. I do. I do. I miss changing the story. Absolutely. It's like telling you know, like a like a hound dog has to go hunt. It's like that she can take out of anyone, but I like to write, and I'm writing like a person now. Not like a media company.

Right and giggle Home was so pop, but it business 2.0, is where I discovered who I was back in the days of ST dot com and Kramer and you were writing. But you're kind of making text sound simpler. You kind of had a way of you just love tech And how? What's the biggest change that you've seen from Tech from 2001 to 2020 and post 2020? So let's go back to 2001. The market crashed and you start the blogged.

I started the blood because I've been working for our daily publication, which is Ford's dot com, and to working for her day in which was, ah, monthly magazine, and I I couldn't understand. How the hell are we gonna write about and inform people about Ted when the industry changes so fast and these publications state to three months to come out? And I used to have a casual newsletter and which I would find out about four or 500 people. And I had discovered every Liam's blogger, and I had started to use that for potentially and constantly abated website. I don't know, it wasn't caught. I couldn't figure out what was the blood, but it felt like made perfect sense to write every day. For me, it was more out of habit and then I switched to another staff. But I became a full fledged blood,

and I will work on it every evening. I would go back home. I'll come I work day and I will write the Bar Kings I had heard and, you know, and my pontification about what was happening in technology. And the reason I would do that is because everywhere I look technology and the Internet and it was like it made no sense to me is like, How could people not understand? Fundamentally, that attack was going to be even more pervasive in our universe. And so that was my original idea of why I wanted to write them with a little bit awkward personal edge to write every day because that's the habit. I have been used to for most of my life. And secondly, I just couldn't understand why people hated on tech so much. And so that was in

Why do you think people, I mean people hate on tech for different reasons today than they did in 2000 and two.

I think it was mostly because 1 3002 time frame it was a bar this year. Yeah, some of the stuff which went off on the Internet was ludicrous. And a lot of people God, you know, it's taken in by the by the stocks off Internet companies, and many of them were just nonsense and crap. And no one was thinking. And you know, I think at some point when you're confronted with your own greed, yes, you have to blame somebody

else. Of course, we're seeing it today. Yeah, you're singing a different manifestation today, but it's greed and fear the but you're right back then. It was so ridiculous because the I P o. Market was ridiculous. This is a little different because there's a little more like anger about how good these businesses are and how much better they could be. It's so much armchair quarterbacking. It's a little different to hate this time. What do you sense? Because you've seen it like a near like you can call anybody in the pick up the phone. So what? Why's, you know, it's easy to blame Facebook in their evil, But it's not just that. What do you think the hate is? How is it different?

Yeah, I think I would say things. We're not that different in my mind till about 2050. I think 2015 is a brand. Our industry are my industry. Mr. Stack basically became ran from being a normal small, you know, corner of the world to being the center of the universe. And it has drawn so many people into it and so much money. Everybody sees there is an opportunity to make money that she has become almost 10 20 x of what it used to be. So the sheer size and scope of everything has changed drastically. I think why people are finding you know they dislike many of these companies is a lot of these companies and the people who run these companies and people who started these companies, people who fund these companies. People write about this company like me. We still think it's like 2000 and one or 2000 and two. You know,

we still think over does like our small industry, whereas in reality it's 20 times bigger. It touches everything. It, you know, we look at, you know, Amazon in such abstract terms. But we don't I think, if anything, this panic is making us understand how Parisi technology companies are really are. No, because without them, you know, other modern life doesn't function. Tenants in a sad way,

right in a sad way, their reflection of what is to come. I think about it this way in 2000. Tony, you be how climate change climate has changed. Like forget about climate change. You know the world is different. It's too hard outside to go for normal human beings that you have to stay indoors. And it's almost like that, you know, picks out the robot movie, Molly. So somebody has to bring food. Somebody has to bring supplies. We basically we're seeing. Right now, our government is basically incapable of doing anything

so interesting.

All right, so who's doing who's doing the deliveries right now, you know Jeff Bezos and Co right? Like I think in many ways our reality is like come in front of us And that's why maybe it's a time for all our tech leaders to kind of take a step back and just say we have a bigger responsibly

have, like, this is cool and the great news is weed is pervasive, too, and I know you're not Buzz right now, but I wish I waas that was pretty deep. The ah that is so true, like it's almost like this is a a dry run of what's coming like this is inevitable. So luckily, this is happening in a way, because in 2040 or 30 or whenever it's too hot to go, it's out or when it's flooding, we're going to need door dash or whatever Amazon or drones anyways.

Yeah, I was walking this morning, Uh, yesterday when I was walking back from my rock and there was like nobody on the street. It was like 6 50 right? Nobody not a so long street. And, you know, I live in Brandon Street in San Francisco. Busy area, Second Street Like it is, it's like they're all, you know near South Park Tech. People come and go all the time and everything. Injustice, people and they're the ballpark. And there's people all the time. There was nobody and I said, Oh, those delivery, no bars make perfect sense.

Yeah, Softbank just a lasted a little longer. The It's about timing. And so I think you're right. I think it's like when I hear Galloway rant. You know, I like Calloway, but it's like boring to me at this point because he was early and right the first time. And now it's just, you know, media, media, Media. But I think if you take a step back and talk to people like yourself and all the people I love talking to, you know Mike Marquez, who you know in her Greenberg people who have been through this like, 30 years.

And really I really love tech and it's just like that's an interesting take is like, Hey, man, two dozen 15 you know, it just became too big. It's the center of the universe, and now you're right. These Facebook and these people, they can't just You can't just show up and like deliver their product. They gotta think governments not working like there's no state. There's no like, it's back to the local level. You gotta like you gotta like I kind of like it personal, and I'm in that 1% and not 1% wealth, but 1% that just like, luckily,

lives in this tech explosion. And I'm just going with the flow. And I don't have to worry about, like my job next week. So I can appreciate you saying that like, it seems obvious that's

coming. I think you know, for me when I think you don't have to. You don't have to love technology very blindly. You know, I think the problem. I have been companies like, um, Facebook. Richard. I'm a very vocal critic. Off. I actually got off Facebook deleted my column. Your story. Hundreds and charges are for followers, mostly because they don't actually understand that, you know, not everything is about engagement. The religion off engagement is so high in the company that they would sacrifice democracy at the altar of engagement, agreed

executive model if they'd switch that.

You know, it's not even a lad murder. They just believe that more time they have that's their core. Religion is more attention they have from you. The more more likely they are that you will stay with them and not go to Google or any other place. I mean that. It's like that is fundamentally they do not understand like human beings. For a social network like the auto bunch of executives were who don't understand society, that's that's it. That's the biggest challenge I have with that

company. And it's so global. My my beef is always with Twitter because I don't live on Facebook. I never really got into Facebook, so I don't have anything to delete. Like, you know, I never check it, but yeah, I probably should. Why use Instagram once in a while? The end. What's up? I guess I do so so I guess. Like, I can't say to use what's happened. Instagram er, no.

I use what's happened because of Mom uses what

got it. Like I have about 10 people I went up with. And so and you don't use Twitter that much anymore, either.

I used to order occasionally. I love Twitter, mostly because I was the first Twitter user outside of Twitter, and I have, ah, emotional attachment away and I love Jack. I mean, he's the new Jack is not the old Jack, but I love the old Jack, So I'm still on quitter, but not as often. I spend, like maybe a few minutes a day on it. Okay, one of you is that it's become like it's become like either marketing. Everybody's

marketing. That's my problem with it, even myself. Like if you're my problem with Twitter is and I love Twitter, the product is same as you have a problem with Facebook. I don't think they understand they're user. If you let people market all day and don't like, like do something more than just let people yell and fight, then what happens is everybody ends up marketing and no one ends up. Uh, so we're all guilty of it. I'm guilty of it, but that's because the machine is the machine like that's the only way I'm a member of that club. And if that's where my audiences they're forcing me to market their you know what I mean. And it's like if you're leaving everybody up to self regulate how they market themselves, 90% of people don't know how to do marketing, including me.

So sometimes we over market and then people sign off. So anyways, yeah, I don't know the old Jack in the new Jack, But first, Twitter is the best product of all time that I feel, and that's why I get mad at it because you don't have a great product like that. And I feel like it's neglected.

No, I think most people don't understand her at all. Twitter, even the critter founders don't understand critter right through there is the people the people defined. Only one that service is so if today people are being inauthentic and using it for, like screaming matches are announcing their ludicrous idea. Or everybody is an expert on Corona wires. That's who we are. We are the people. Twitter is the ugly words in off us. People don't want to believe it, but it is showing us who we are. Social networks are nothing but us. It amplifies everything about it showed

us society, us personally,

the US as a society. Yes, that's what they got. And I think and put it has always been like that. So the great ideas aren't couldn't have come from the community, not from the company. And the company, I just think is, is trying to get it somber around it. But, you know, it's like you can't You can't change the beast. You

can't change the basic thing. When are you for one second and I'll let you go. If you are CEO of Twitter, would you have blocked Trump for violations? If if If you don't have to tell me you wouldn't have,

uh, if I was to see, you know, the trailer

I was three years

ago. Your No, I am not the CEO. Twitter. No, I understand. I want to be. But, you know, that's a question I'm not gonna answer. It's a hypothetical.

It is.

I will not block the president of America

were their first.

I'm just saying that other presidents, you know, you still live in America, man. Yeah, I You could be. You know what? However, you're I don't want to get into that. No, man, but, you know, it's like it's at some point. You gotta have you know, this is one thing. I want to beat you.

I'll debate you anything. Can I ask you a question? Okay. You know, panic reverse, right? Yeah. And so if you know you're Howard, great stock market investor for the seer of all trains, what do you make of this market? I mean, what should I do? How about my stock of our my savings? Yeah. Should I do?

Yeah. I think that the issue is is like people aren't asking those questions when things are going well, right? Like I think it's like gardening or like yoga. I think yoga so interesting Because because I always come back to the subject. The mantra, right? Like same goddamn positions. You know, it's how long you hold them. It's same sayings over and over and stock market, the exact same thing. If you go to financial Twitter and especially on stocked, what's we're talking about? Human behavior's been the same since Day one. Greed and fear. So when everybody's you know,

Warren Buffett has done a great job of making it hokey and simple Lover Hatem is you know, his, you know, over the last week on Twitter was like eyes. It's not fun. This is the worst time Thio by something. But that's when you have to buy something. And then for the last year when the market was up 30% in Trump with telling people you know, why don't you up 100%? That is not a good time to be buying stocks. Um, so you know, I try and like, not like, there's only a few times a year where the markets matter. This has been one of them,

and it's not because you should be panicked and selling. It's because you should be thinking about opportunity while other people are panicking. So there's these every every few years or every 10 years or every every five years. There's there's a point where there's a wealth transfer where people are being conned and it's calm and everybody's investing and everybody owns the same thing. And everybody's talking about Facebook and alone. Nike and they all own the same companies. And now we're at a point where oh, shit, like we're talking about blowing, going like all of a sudden we're talking about what excellent at $30 not $80 what Carnival Cruise lines at $4 not a 60 it like we're talking about airlines going on a business all of a sudden like all of a sudden, it's not just about the, ah, the NASDAQ and Facebook and Twitter, like I love this environment because now we're talking about, like, true disruption,

like what is really going to come out of this? And I think you probably have the best point so far by saying this is all a simulation for climate change, like we're arguing over climate change. But the real argument is like Argue what you want. It's gonna be fucking hot In 10 years or 15 years, I've seen it in Phoenix and winter's gonna be warmer and yada, yada, yada and there's gonna be all kinds of other disruptions. And so I'm kind of your asking me my opinion. I'd rather look out 10 years and talk to people like you and Fred Wilson and all the people in Mark and Greece, um, and venture capitalists who are kind of simulate today versus 10 years from now. Do I want to own Carnival cruise lines? No, because I don't want to own businesses that have a massive amount of leverage. 22 This of thing.

I think the old World in the New World you talk about 2015 home and I'm like, Okay, I get it. Like 2015 is when he should have stopped averaging into the S and P 500 started averaging into the NASDAQ 100. So if tech became the center, the number one tip I would give to people of tech became the center of the universe in 2015. That is the moment when instead of Vanguard S and P 500 Vanguard should be marketing the NASDAQ 100. Meaning were just the beginning of the tech boom in 2015. The other trials and tribulations. So So I think the biggest thing I tell people that call me or what they dio I go look, name some of the companies you own in your portfolio if you own the gap. And if you on Carnival Cruise Line and Boeing, you're missing out on what makes great investing. We've gone from an era of financial leverage, which is blowing the banks to an area of social leverage, which is connections,

networks, speed, technology. So the number one thing I tell people in panics like this is clean up your portfolio and add, don't you don't have to be that diversified. You know, you walk into a Walgreens and you see 7000 band aid products when you really just need one band aid products. So I think people need more attack in their portfolio, and people really need to diversify less, not more. And so use these periods of panic toe like clean up your portfolio and slim things down. And ah, I think the most interesting thing before I put it back to questions back to you, you tricked me here by giving asking me a question is, um is this hasn't been a great time to be alone and kind of think about these things. So it's been fun talking to people and and asking these questions.

So what do you see It? What do you see is a VC. I'm not letting you ask another question. What do you see? Is a VC a true ventures because you guys have a big firm. How big is the firm?

No, we have about a 1,000,000 or so under management. You know what 100 companies even rested in our history? Over three under company over 15 years and on. You know what they're looking at is, you know, we believe that there is a lot off, uh, changes which are gonna happen in hard genomics in, you know, intersect Lee life. You know that. You know, problem medical standpoint, you know, genomex and on, you know,

a lot of you know, the food production, for example. We also believe that there's gonna be new opportunities and in agriculture in how you know, processes, air managed to, you know, like and not robots in the classical sense for more than robots are renting human capabilities and helping us actually manage a lot of the changes which is gonna happen in the near future. I think the scale of our world is changing pretty radically, and machines will have to play some role in it. And, like so what? Those things are, You know, that's an exploration were on as as as a group. And,

you know, we keep looking at, you know, interesting opportunities. I think that is quite a few of them out there. You know, we've done a bunch of companies, you know, in the you're helping Artemis. Some of the agricultural, you know, farms, for example, and they're using there and then that is others which are looking at over the other is a comical under, you know, understory which is looking at,

um you know how whether is on a regional basis, what is the impact of better and, you know, on businesses and on production on cities. And, you know, those are, like, you know, very important technologies which are, if you're going to play a role in the future. So we're looking at the changes constant. Great, I think. And the speed of change is increased.

Yeah,

and that means opportunities to deal with that change of increased. So as an investor, you have to keep looking for many more of those opportunities. Yeah, I think for me got me like, you know, when I When I think about you, remember 2008 everybody said too big to fail on the banks and the banking sector. Seven financials that came out Fewer players, but much bigger prey on more dominant. I see

same thing.

Same thing with this. With this this crisis, you know we'll have bigger, much larger retail presence for, like closely changes and McDonald lot of Mars have no Starbuck's wing will be nearly really big. There will be no small. I think the small and the middle is gone. So I think How do we deal with that reality?

Totally agree.

I think that is the key key question for next 10 years. And I think we're seeing it in front of our eyes. Make a much bigger three ex bigger. The transfer from one sector of society

doing the biggest of all time started

a month ago. Yeah, Frankie was one X. It was one trillion during 2008. This is a $3 trillion ish, you know, transfer.

I'm

sorry. It's like Armor three X and I think very go after the and, you know, is an interesting one. Like the funny part of the whole shift is that the tech probably is not gonna be that much off a beneficiary of that, because the Amazon is getting bigger. Regardless, you know, you're a Milan is getting bigger because it works and it's making things happen, eh? And Apple is getting bigger because it's making products which make things happen. And Samos with Google and Microsoft. And hopefully they will be like a dozen other companies like that.

No, And how do you rationalize on our world war even though it two billion you guys, air seed investors I still think I still think of you as early stage investors. So if there's not gonna be a small and big, how do you How do you How do you work within that?

You know, you need to plant an acorn to grow in oak. Simple is I

know I'm with you. I mean, a TTE the macro. We know that the only big is not sexy anymore.

But yes, it was a tiny little one. You know, one man. The dream was bored. Press and look at it now you know, almost 30% of the vet. So

at one point, it was 50. So it's still 30% of the web.

Yeah,

it's just fascinating. That is amazing. I got to get him on the So I'm with you on this wealth transfer so you don't you're bullish. But at the same time, you're cautiously concerned, are optimistic. But you're at the same time. You have these major concerns, like because there's no stopping Starbucks McDonald's, WalMart, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Microsoft apple Right now

I think if you don't think about humans. People like humans. If you're not gonna, all this doesn't matter. All of this is just pointless. All everything. Whether it's technology, whether it's well, it's like size. It's our society. Look at what is going on around us right now. I we cannot 100 other person. How bad is back past The ultimate failure as a society were humans, and we can't even touch each other. You know, it's like so no matter how much relatives transferring your fee. And you know, in this process, people discount human being, and that will be really sad. And I think that's that's the sad part of this whole thing that bothers me a lot.

You know, it's like my daughter is like we keep. She's sitting on the couch six feet away, but it gets weird to not be able to hug our kids. And what's your outlook on the virus like? But yet you're probably studying it a little more than most. What's your take it or we will get through it, but like what's you think hugging will come back or we're screwed?

We got to bring it back. Yeah, I mean, I gotta have my nieces and nephew and I gotta have my car. Daughters I don't want to die without doing.

And what, uh, in San Francisco is the cases air? You tracking the cases that are What's your take on how it's

actually I'm surprised by how slow it is I parted would be large wars, but I guess that aggressive isolation policy has worked so far.

Okay, good. Well, I, uh and you guys have been working 27 days and true Ventress is office doing work from home. So it's a veces. They're pretty good at this stuff. Anyways, we're using all the products. Are you a slack user? It zooms. Is this d like slack?

I love slack. I'm a I'm a shareholder in slack, so I don't want to talk about

it, But I am to have a little shares. I own a few shares. He's done a great job through this crisis. He's a great CEO, started, stays out of the mood, stays out of the news, doesn't do anything wacky, builds great product, loves his users. Seems like his employees like him didn't do everything. He's doing everything right, except the stock price was going down Now it's going up.

Hey, you know, stock prices, not the ultimate

brings. Agree. I love everything about slack, and I think he's gonna have. And I think next 10 years will be very good for Slack. I think next 10 years will be great for people that care about humans.

Absolutely. And I know you care about humans and yelling about you

start just going really fast, Doctor, It is going really fast. Not it's not, You know, You know, I have a different opinion. I think you have to prune all the time. I think you have to kick off assholes. Now. I don't think it's good for a VC business. I have to agree. That was my My failing is like these. You know, if you want to raise VC money and run a a platform, the more the merrier on and take all the warts with it. I just always hated the warts.

So I think that was kind of ah. Now, 12 years later, stocked which is, like, you know, growing faster than ever. And we seemed, you know, obviously we have crazy people, but they rid themselves very fast.

So you know what I think you're right. There is a lot of trolls and a lot of bad people out thing again There there was a lot of trolls and a lot of bad people out in the real world as well. So I came. Our social networks only reflect

no, I'm a little bit just a little. Obviously, the trolls are everywhere. I just think they're not as big a percentage is people give them credit for All right, this is where this is. I think if you can if you you know, it's battle. If you can battle them like you have to take him on, you can't let him overtake. You can't leave me alone for five days or they just infiltrate. It's kind of like a virus. You have to separate them and you have to kick him off. And you have to enforce rules. You know, 10 Commandments type stuff. It's not perfect,

but you've got to keep repeating them. Kind of like the mantra on the markets. So I I appreciate you coming on. I love what true Ventured. Obviously you guys have been backing companies for forever. Um, how many people are true now

from an investment team step pulling were I could love a lot of people, including

souls. So

lean like and torture team is about 30 people create so lands.

Yeah. Yeah, we're only three. The one thing great is the one thing great about investing is it's a very lean business. Now, what about what's your sweet spot? Steep. Do you like seed or a or B

seed?

So your season and what's your focus? Focus with founders. Want to reach out to you? What's your What do you love? Is there a specific category? Are

you love? You know I love I'm still biased towards networks. Never connection network software. I like you know what is card connected devices? Internet of things? Um can you know generally. Like I'm not I'm not dogmatic about anything. I do tend to stay away from you because, you know, product companies like I'm not interested in, if you're selling clothes, are you know, you know, furniture and stuff like that? That's not I don't understand it. Other people at the firm were much better and much wiser than I. So But I'm open to, you know, like I like things. Good technology.

Yeah. No, you're a geek speak. Ah, it's great to catch up on them. And you. Nice to see you writing. I've read about the walks and everything, and it's just nice to be writing.

Yeah, I wish I was writing more of our tag, but I think this time off, you know, we're living in a strange time, and I feel I just That's the only way I can deal with the insight is progess writing,

and you're at home on Twitter and and the block of People want to subscribe to occasional missives. It's at its home. It's home dot com aroma leak.

No own dark

CIA home dot ceo. Very efficient. You're

very duck. So and I also have a newsletter, which is easy to get. You consign upon the blogger. It's in my twitter ball.

Okay, We'll talk to you soon. Good luck with a quarantine. We'll see you on the other side.

You know, I hope you you scare bell and give my best to your family and be as amazing as you can be.

All right, my man, Talk to you soon. Okay? Legend, I remember meeting him the first time. He was always a nice guy like Herb. Herb was a little bit surly, but one word for that man wise, he Ah, he tried to build a media business. I mean, he did, but it's just that's not the right business for a guy like that. Too wise to calm, too nice on then. True.

He's, you know, he's become, you know, worked inside True for a long time. Anyways, that was fun, huh? That will change of pace. No panic there. Ah, he definitely is in there in the scrum of it all in San Francisco and a big thinker. So hope everybody enjoyed. That will be back soon with another panic with friends.