everyone. It's a big Dessie, your host of product on radio, where I'm joined by the founders, investors and makers that are shaping the future of tech. In this episode, I speak to jail. Saltzman, the founder of Global Entrepreneurship Network, the founding, moans all about how to grow on monetize communities. Her site has been named one of the top 10 sites for women entrepreneurs by Forbes, and the community is over 12,000 Mom strong, with an online presence and hubs across the US, South America, Europe and Australia. Here,

she explains how she grew the community across the U. S. And globally and successfully switched from a free offer to generating revenue across different channels. This episode is packed with learnings. Enjoy. Building Good products. Takes a long time. Everyone knows that a lot of time goes into trouble shooting your APS pre and post deployment. Now with head Spin, the world's first connected intelligence platform, Dev teams que es and product teams can save countless hours with unified testing, monitoring and analytics across applications, devices and networks. Head spin accelerates time to market and optimizes the performance and functionality of your digital experiences enabled by mobile Web I ot and five G technologies. Learn more at www dot head spin dot io. Jill Thank you so much for being on Product Hunt radio J.

I've really been looking forward to this interview for a number of reasons. First of all, we are community, and we are a community of makers, so it's always really exciting. Toe have other community builders on on the show and, you know, teaching us about what they've learned. But I'm also just love the fact that you are unlike any other community builders we've had on the show and not your community focuses on Mom's, which there definitely aren't enough in the tech industry. But regardless of the focus of the group, I I feel like there's so much to learn from this now global community you've built, which, of course, originally started in the U. S. So I

guess maybe

I just like to start because I know you haven't done it. Founding Mom's your entire career. I might just like just start with how you ended up building communities may be based on your previous experiences, and then I want to dive more into founding mom's.

So yeah, let's tell

us how you got into community building in the first

place. I'd love that. And I am trying to sound very calm and rational while I talk about my product. Moved monkey for a very long time. This is really exciting. I'm trying to stay on Loki. So are in 2005 back. I don't have a history of building community. I started building community with the founding mom's in 2010 but Oahu For that, I launched my very first business. I helped to manage bands, so I sent them out. I did. They're booking. I did their publicity. I tried to get artists on tour, and there is something to be said for building community for artists.

When they're on the road, you sort of create street teams. For them, they are like communities, but not at all in the same way that I'm building the founding moms and not very similar to product hunt. But there is cross over. So that was my first taste of it. Two years after that, I built a second business, not community related. I sold baby jewelry on this running my first business. Yeah, so I I was a crazy person running two businesses at the same time. And when I became pregnant with my second baby, I thought, How on earth does anybody do this?

And so selfish reasons? I want to meet up dot com. I launched a meet up just outside of Chicago where I lived at the time. And I said, If you're ah woman with a business and a baby, please come have coffee with me. Tell me how you're doing it, because I think I'm gonna lose my mind. It's funny, you would say I got really curious, but that's not true. I really was. I was going crazy, so I invited a couple of people. I thought there'd be five of us. I thought it would be a one off.

Turns out about 15 ish women walked into the room. All of our Joe? Yeah, And we thought, Oh, my gosh, you too. So I think, you know, I could call it the U two movement of 2010. So once, once we realized I loved it so much, we thought, Well, let's meet up monthly. And about six months in,

a woman came up to me and told me she hated driving all the way to this. This location Could I open up another chapter? And that was pretty much my light bulb moment where I thought, And where's the Internet? I can put a zip code into anywhere in the world. There is a site called meetup dot com that this was pre chapter rising. I didn't even have a term for it yet, but I allow I went bananas. I bought a ton of media pages in different cities. You know, I did a lot of launching at a time where everybody said to me, Slow down, hold on. You've got to get it right before you keep on scaling. And I didn't listen to anybody. Oh,

so here we are, 10 years in, and, uh, we're in a lot of places.

It's incredible. I mean, you're in the U. K. Where I live. I live in London, but Singapore, Mexico, South Africa, Guatemala,

Anywhere there is a mom entrepreneur. I believe there needs to be what we call founding exchanges. But our mastermind's for moms.

This is incredible. So kind of going back to the early meet ups that you found it. So earlier this year, we hosted our first ever global meet up day on. The idea behind that was to connect the community in real life and as many places as possible. And on the day we had 73 different meet ups happen, which was incredible. And what I've learned doing that experience, I sort of lead the project was there are a lot of people who are very experienced in the space of organizing events, organized networking events or, you know, even like a lunch or coffee date. And then, you know, you go sort of across the spectrum from very competent participants of meet ups to folks who are, you know, not well versed in them. Maybe, but shine a bit hesitant, etcetera. So

I guess

I kind of just want to start off by getting a bit of your insight on folks who kind of fall more on that, like less experience and less confident side of the spectrum. There are probably a lot of makers and folks out there who have identified an interest, are identified something unique about their experience and want to connect with others who share that. Maybe they've done a bit of that online, and they're kind of thinking about taking that jump to the offline space. Is there any advice that you can get because, you know, you just mentioned that you thought one person, right? Show up, you know? And then suddenly 15 people are in the room. How do you sort of deal with that? Okay, I'm actually gonna do it. I'm gonna find the space. I'm gonna put it on mine. And then how did you mentally prepare yourself for whatever the outcome might be on that very, very first real event?

Sure. I think we have to eradicate the fact that networking might be a dirty word and sort of talking to myself because the first few years of running the founding mom's all I dreamed of was creating a universe of resource is very practical, very action, or for Mom preneurs because nobody pays attention to mom entrepreneurs the way they do women, entrepreneurs or anybody else. So my dream was to have a very practical organization for them. Educational. All of the words that a lot of entrepreneurs are glued to. And any time somebody said to me, Well, you run a networking organization, I cringed, and I hated it. and I thought, Well, if network and comes out of it, sure,

I want to tell everybody listening. I have come quite a long way. You can't be scared of that. And the other part I want to tell you is most of the attendees of our offline experiences are the introverts. They are the people, though a lot of trouble getting out from behind their screen. But they understand that 90% of interaction is nonverbal. They understand that when they're at the meeting, they're gonna make so much progress with their business that they can't, no matter how many social media channels there on, or whatever they're doing online is gonna happen that they even understand. Okay, I'm going to do a lot within the community online, but at a certain point I have to leave the house or the office because it's just the most efficient way to have progress or growth as a founder. That's just there's no two ways about it. Eso ha Gotham.

For years, people said to me, You know, Jill, you have to stop focusing on the offline arena and you have to really build up an online platform. So about four years ago, we launched what we call the FMC, the founding mom's community, which is a paid membership site online on Lee. If you like to hide behind your screen, you can join us. You can participate in webinars and challenges and get all of that practical stuff I want you to get. But you know, it's no one contrive me away from this offline thing because I know in my heart of hearts 10 years in, there is nothing that Trump's meeting up in real life at all.

I love that. I think you're so right. I think it's almost just taking it back to where the real impact lies, right? Like you found that when folks met up in real life, they got so much more out of it than they could online. And I'm reflecting on my own experiences here. You know, I think this is really important. When I first quit my job, I had a detective in 2015 and I quit that to work on this idea, I had building a community around women of color and other underrepresented people intact, you know, still in junior rolls or maybe mid level but aspiring for more. What I found was when I started having conversations about my idea online. It was very easy for people to just sort of dismiss the idea quite quickly. It wasn't maybe something that they were familiar with,

or it doesn't have any obvious business model. And what I found was that I started almost talking myself out of it before I'd done anything because so many of the responses that I received online we're really negative and similar sort of thing when I went to run of the mill tech industry events. But I think again, you know, by virtue of the problem solving, because a lot of people weren't at the events that could kind of relate to this problem. And then something really changed when I started going to meet ups that were purely focused on women in Tak, and suddenly it was like this penny drop. You were like, Oh my God, there's such a big demand for that. That's what you need for that. I would love to come to these events. What kind of workshops are you gonna run? I want to learn about this. I want to learn about that.

I want to be around other women that are learning about that, And I just suddenly felt, Oh my gosh, that's so incredible. And I think, you know, maybe sometimes you have to appreciate that just because one person finds the Internet to be the perfect place to do everything doesn't mean that I'm necessarily experiencing the Internet in

the same way. And I don't actually think it's the perfect place for anything that we're talking about in terms of building an actual community where you can say I have 50,000 people in a community online and everybody is helping each other every single second of the day. While I'm sure that's true, the extent to which you can help each other is not possible online. I don't yes, it'll end. So we're a point earlier about you know what folks do if they're real, if they feel very shy, if they are scared that everybody I often get the high over get approached until, well, I don't want to join your community because you all seem to know what you're doing, and we don't know what we're doing. So I kind of mission to tell everybody. Nobody knows what we're doing none of us were really using. You have to come out. Stop hiding is because you are actually sabotaging your own success. I really do feel that strongly about it.

I sort of sound like a an offline, I don't know, nightmare of a leader, but I just you know, the fact that you began this interview by saying We've never had somebody on who focuses on moms and you know, you don't really see that in the product on community. I'm going to suggest that maybe there are lots of us in there. But nobody talks about the fact that they are a mom entrepreneur there, an entrepreneur. They don't like to use the word mom. They don't want people to know they're distracted by kids. So that's yet another mission. I find myself having to sort of forge ahead and say is that there are tons of women with kids who are making things we're creating, not just community, all kinds of things. And I don't want to say it because nobody

else is. I love that I love that. I think there's so many things. And when you said that I relate Thio, that idea of never feeling ready like, Oh, I want to join your community. But I'm not ready is something that seems to echo across the entire maker's community. You know, this community of people making and creating and building things. There's so many times and people say, Oh, I want a launch on product hunt But I'm not ready and, you know, you hear someone else cynical, You know, I want to share my app,

but I'm not ready. I wanna show my portfolio, But I'm not ready. And I love that you. You remind folks that you know, you're you're never ready. And I said that all the time, too. You know, when people are like, Oh, you know, I don't know how to run a business. I say, Well, you know,

neither do I. Like I'm learning as I go. I mean, it seems to be working, but I hope I'll

get better big wigs out there. You know Jeff Bezos? He doesn't totally know what he's doing, either. I mean, he's come a long way. Nobody knows that I love when you what you just said was about a lot of people think I want a launch on product hunt but I'm not ready. And I think if you flip that too, I want a launch on product hunt and I'm not ready. That's what the communities for it, they're gonna help point all of the things that are wrong. They're gonna help you thrive and survive. I don't If you if you learn to lean on the community and become a little more vulnerable than you're used Thio, I can't tell you how exponentially you're gonna grow and

just kind of going back to the early days of founding moms and you know, the events. I'm curious how you thought about structure or agenda or anything like that. Was it something that you intentionally wanted to develop? Or was it more about creating the space for people to the surface things themselves?

Yeah, I'm gonna be really transparent. When we began, we being me, myself and I I just desperate to get people to show up because I realized there was this was so much bigger than anything I've ever done that I Marge, are you ready for this? $0 for you to come to any meet up in any city? I quickly realized I didn't like the the baby Julia business that I ran. So 20 0 my goodness. What was it, 2011 or 12? I sold it. And I used those funds to fund the beginning of what is now the funny moms. But I would show up to a meeting with no agenda with nothing except a goofy smile on my face going like, Hi, What do you want to talk about? Ah,

and I realized pretty quickly that everybody is going well, where's our leader? Who is this organ? It, you know, it was a really negative reaction. So I showed up one day with a piece of paper where I'd scribbled down a little agenda, and I couldn't believe how many people funnel. She's so organized. So I started printing them rather than scribbling on. You know, Lolita bald. I are very much a proponent of. Ask your customers what they want and then do it. So you know, I would slowly So do you like the agenda?

What should we tweak? Oh, do you guys? Some lady came up to me later on months in and said, Where's your newsletter? And I said, No one reads the newsletter and so little by little people would lead me. Ah, and so now if you come to one of our founding exchanges much more structured, you know we have it and that we have themes. We'll have real stuff and pieces of paper we give you, and it's it's much more. Uh, it's just much more driven towards an actual goal, which is not. But if I had known all of this is that there's no way I would have known I I don't know how s o I love unity. Help me. No,

I love that. I love the honesty. Always appreciate, You know, when folks come on the show and are just like, you know, there's no magic formula. I wasn't enlightened by the heavens. I just, you know, showed up, did my best. And here we are. We need more of that in the creative and makers fear otherwise. You know, the folks who are sitting on a great idea are too afraid to start never. Well,

so I have reached it. I think that's awesome. I wanted to just sort of carry on that point that you just made around how it was the community that really sort of fed into what you decided you needed to provide. So, you know, when folks were like, Oh, you could have this and we could have that And you're like, I could Great. I'm gonna have an agenda. I'm gonna build that. Were there any framework structures processes that you established in the first few years of the community that helped you get that information from the other members of the community so that you could keep evolving? I mean, you already gave one example of someone saying, Hey, I can't drive that far. Can we have one A note in my city? But yeah, whatever the way is that you just ensure you continued to hear what the community needed. And you built that for them?

Yeah, I think every single meeting that I would attend and again this was monthly. Back in the day, I asked that meeting. What do you all need? What's going on? Or I would just be a really good listener. I mean, if you couldn't Well, I really like to talk, but, you know, I tried the quiet of my meetings and just hear what was going on. What was the sort of commonalities among everybody who attended, and I informed eventually. Oh, we now need a newsletter.

Oh, we now need an online platform. They would just lead me very slowly. Some things I would resist because back in the day, as most makers listening know when you start out, you think you know everything that your customers and clients meat on. That was just disproven over and over again with me. So I, you know, I just really think it takes a lot of good listening and asking I now, By the way, I started out with a monthly newsletter. Then I moved to one every two weeks. I now send out a daily newsletter and in every single one, I invite anybody to reply to me. I don't think they believe that it's actually me,

but it is. And I, you know, I'll say, like, what do you need? What's going on on people? It's interesting. They will tell you if they need something, they will let you know.

I love that. I think one of the things that I want to be better out on, and I feel all of us want to be better, especially in this age of short attention spending distraction is listening. You sort of pointed that out earlier, and you're like, you know, sometimes I'm just a really good listener, but I think it's hard to listen. And I think sometimes it's even harder to listen when you're a maker, creator, community builder and you hear something negative or you hear someone disagreeing with a style or structure. So I would love to hear from you advice on either how you thicken your skin or how you were able to put yourself in a place where folks could even, you know, criticized decisions you've made about the community. But you were able to still make use of those

things. Yeah, well, you know what online? It's very easy to again. Hi bucking the screen. So if I need to pull my community Hey, would you guys like a B or C answer? There's no kickback fighting, et cetera, but I do notice, especially for folks like you and me, who I have a podcast as well call breaking down your business so used to not only talking a lot, but I'm often it's suggested to me talk over my co host because it makes for better radio, right? So when I get in front of people in real life, it is much easier for me to take out an actual physical note,

pad or laptop. And as I'm taking notes, it's sort of reinforces the listening part. And I not unlike an interviewer, ask a lot of questions. So fill me in and I try not to make them leading questions. And the best, really the best route is just ask the question and let them talk and what you're telling me if you need to. And as

the community has grown and scaled into other regions, I'd love to hear about how you handled that. So I know there are a lot of folks who and you know similar analogy is really too, like building a product or like trying to get, you know, your community into other places. How did you approach that? Like it wasn't something where the community members took the lead in those places. Did you physically go there to start the community in those places? Tell

us about that. I would often at the beginning, for the 1st 2 years I would reach out via email. I would reach out via any online platform. Hey, you're in the city. I have an interest in launching in that city. Do you want to do it? Do you know anybody who might? Uh, because of the beginning. Again, I didn't know what I was doing. And if you expressed even an inkling of interest, you became a leader for the Founding Mounts, which is ridiculous. Now that we do very denies,

we did not get anybody. I was just so grateful that you were even interested that that's how we did end up popping up in a lot of cities. Even if the turnover was high, even if a month later, she thought, Well, this is disorganized. I'm leaving. Then we had a base. There are a starting point to then find somebody else and fill them in. We've morphed quite a bit. We now have a non boarding process. I don't do nearly as much outreach as I used to do. Fortunately, they get in touch with us if they want to visit Citi. Yeah,

um but there are certain cities. I'm dying to launch it, and I still do a lot of outrage on Lincoln. I say on podcasts. like this one. If you have interest, please reach out to Because again, I think we should be in, you know, within a five mile radius of every mom entrepreneurs home. And there are a lot of moms in

the world. I love that. That's incredible. I like that, You know, similar to other things you've said the process is just evolved as you've realized where it needs refinement. But I think the thing that most did out to mean what you just said was that you haven't not really had to dio as much outreach recently because you get ah, lot of inbound interest and I just wondered, like, could you share the tactics and strategies that have helped get you to that place where folks are reaching out to you and wanting Just start chapters?

Oh, man, we could be on here a long time. We do it a content marketing. Nema what or more Probably they're not tic tac, but our moms, you know, everywhere that I post anything a blawg. If it's our newsletter, it If it's a podcast interview, I will talk about how we want to hear from you, and I'm always inviting people to reach out. We have if you go to founding mom's dot com slash start Dash 10 N e. Uh, you'll see there's a form there, so I often send out the form and remind folks that we have it, that they can fill it out,

find out a little bit more about what is involved and then, you know, essentially apply so that we can consider you and start theon boarding if we like you. Uh, but there is just constant letting folks know. We also do a lot of press outreach and have been covered by quite a few media. Alex, I'm very proud to say so. Within those, you know, more and more people hear about us and go, What is this? I want this in my area, etcetera.

That's incredible. S o. I'm gonna challenge on this because I think you are an incredible case study for us to learn from this. You sort of mentioned content marketing like someone that does it all day, every day, and we're all gonna know exactly what that means. Um, could you? It was like a bit more insight into the types of stories you share across these platforms. Do you focus like specifically on the challenges that mom entrepreneurs face? Just talk to us about the kind of story telling that you do, because I want people who are listening to be able to think of how they can apply

it. I should be more embarrassed than I am. But well, part of him on a personal mission to let folks know business doesn't have to be boring so that it's actually rather on the silly side. So I dress up in costume with boas, and mustache is for every weapon. Are that I? D'oh? Uh, Graham What pounding Mom is me looking absolutely ridiculous. And I think that is a big attractor because that helps particularly mom. Entrepreneurs realize, Oh, she does look like someone who doesn't know what she's doing. Very, very pro looking business person. So to that end,

my newsletter, our blawg uh, I'm thinking through it Facebooked twittered linked everywhere. It's pretty silly and snarky. And hey, come be one of us were transparent, vulnerable, and we'll know what we're doing. Please come help us kind of meant the only place where I tend to challenge traditional views tend to be a lot more serious is on medium. And that's Reem Aly recent, like, literally two posts in because I realized, Oh, there should be one place where they know that I know something. Ah, don't like that.

I did a Ted talk in 2011 so people can find me and go Oh, she does some serious stuff, but I prefer the very wacky side of business. It's much worse one over here, you know.

Yes, that's incredible. And this idea of building a brand that's very approachable doesn't take itself too seriously, particularly in a space where people are taking themselves very seriously, you know?

Yeah, Yeah, it drives me crazy, like, you know, don't bother. And what I do love about that for makers who are thinking about their own branding over the years, I mean, I started years ago acting very professional looking, very professional, meaning flat iron hair, black suits, et cetera, Uh, and where I've gotten, the more money that we've made. So if you're thinking of coming out of the proverbial closet in the sense,

it really helps not delinquent tractor people, but it will help you to reject all the people who are just not your speed, which I'm your new makers is is very heartbreaking, but is also really wonderful for growing something successful. Rather than getting everybody you know on the bus and then having to dump later, I kind

of want to just, like, make you say that over and over again because I feel like what you said just now is really important. The idea of not being afraid to be very, very bold about what you're doing and who you are, No, only to attract the right people. Yeah, also, to turn away the wrong ones, right?

Oh, it's the best, you guys, it is the best. If you, I mean, we get people who show up in business suits who are just I'm going to call him out now. They're just really boring people, and they sure have their in specific expectations of what we should offer. And when they realize they're in a room of very I think normal women to to them are crazy on, and I shouldn't use that word, but I'm using it boldly and bravely. I think that they all are either turned off or they think you know what this muscles in the place. Me, I'm gonna go join a much more formal organization. That's fantastic, because they've helped free of room for us to have all the right people involved.

They would ruin it for us if they did join us and try to be a part of the community. Like so many reasons why it doesn't work, that the more you can be, you know, And I don't know if you use the f word throughout the day 1000 times, right? That's not what I mean, But just your flavor. What's your You know, who you are is going to attract me way more than what you type out on his paper. That makes us

yes, I agree. And I think many, many folks can relate to that and and understand that maybe one thing that I would just love to challenge you on, So, um or maybe not challenge is the right word, but just kind of get you to speak more on. So, um ah, lot of the times when I hear from makers, especially ones who are in the earlier stages, so you know your brand is like turning 10 this year. That's incredible achievement. But Let's say folks are still in the first couple of years or so of building their community. There tends to be a hesitation to be bold, because makers feel that they still aren't 100% sure off what the brand will look like. You know,

they want to sort of strike that perfect balance between assumptions, personal experiences whilst leaving enough space for the community and the outside world to also, you know, input their thoughts and feelings except drop about the brand. And then, like, you know, the makers often say to me, I don't wanna be to directive in case, you know, I'm closing off the opportunity for others to also chime. And so I just want to know, Since you have just gone full blaze, how have you found the courage

to do that? You should not be scared of shooting people away. You, in fact, should use that as one of your goals, because it your roles, is to get the wrong people out of there. That's gonna help you shine in an area where you and I can call it bold. But I think that sounds really scary for people who feel like they're not yet bold. I think it's just highlight more of who you are. If you're a very funny person, bring that out in your copy. Bring that out in your interviews. If you're a very I like to think of Apple as the example of a brand that's very snogging, very sort of intellectual. If that's you, don't shy away from it.

You know, like that full out because we're just gonna know a lot quicker who you are, what you're building, what you're looking for. And if those of you are scared of, Well, I don't wanna go too far for fear that I drive people we've already covered. You want to drive him away? But also, I will tell you that every time I do my webinars there is a one or two women who will email me and they will say she'll stop wearing all of the costume stuff. Don't wear the sunglasses, take off the boa because the the words you're using and the stuff you're teaching is so valuable you're devaluing it by dressing up in costume. And I keep thinking, I'm very flattered that they're hearing what I'm saying, but I'm so sorry that just doesn't align with my brand. I'm gonna keep on wearing a mustache if I feel like it because that's me.

That's who I am. So we'll get feedback. There is no basket will be back on whether you went too far whether it felt too weird. But I am gonna guess for you that the more you you are, the more positivity you're gonna experience, and you're gonna be very surprised by it. But it's it's gonna be great feedback. And I think that's a yeah.

The more you you are, the better you're gonna. D'oh!

It sounds so small. Bowl is really hard and again you, me to get there, by the way, years because that

that's one thing I wanted to ask. Like I I was curious. Do you feel that since becoming a parent, you were able to be more you because one thing that I've noticed, as you know, a thirtysomething person, I have friends who haven't had kids. Yeah, I have friends who are expecting their second. And when I hang out with my ones who our parents were friends were parents, it's like their perspective on the world has, like, had this huge shift, and I just wondered if that maybe, like, plays rolling, like you being able to hone in so much on what you value and what you want to do with your company.

I think to some degree, you're right that there is a tiny bit of you as a parent. When you have a baby that makes you go, Yeah, I care a little less. Now, however, I actually see most of our members are attracted to our community because of the opposite, because they're actually more fearful of being themselves. They are more burdened with more tasks. They have more on their minds, and it sounds lost to themselves and what's guided them before that or when they have the baby. They realize I'm a different person now, and I'm scared to bring that out because it's brand new. So I see a lot of you and you know what? That's just one perspective, because that's what we attract.

So perhaps there are women out there who feel differently, but what I see like me in every city in every country, is that she is so scared to be herself. That's why she shows up to the founding moms, and then she realized that everybody else is doing this. OK, this is cool. I'm gonna proceed. And she needs a worse man, you know?

Yes, that is really that is really interesting. I love that. I love that. So let's let's talk a bit about the fact that, you know, at the beginning of the journey when it was an experiment, really, wasn't it? You're like, I'm gonna do an event, see what happens. I'm not going to charge anyone. Yeah, then you know at the point where you're at now where it is business on their options, you know, to invest in membership and get a ton of benefits from that.

Can you sort of take us back to how you planned the transition? Starting essentially as something that's free, Because this is something that so many business owners are totally scared up. They've offered something for you for a while, and now it's time to monetize. And they're like, Oh, my God, everyone's gonna go away. Of course they don't. But can you talk us through one the practicalities of it? Like, how did you sort of creates pricing structure on then? To how you overcame the mindset has a maker to kind of go. Okay, I'm Davis

at once again, I feel like I should be more embarrassed than I am. With what I'm about to tell you, I would probably have gone gone on being free for a lot longer than we were. I think we were about three or four years for free. And then what's funny is the only thing that changed our course that way with our members would say where you charging anything? And I would think, Why are you offering to pay? And I think now I know for years into this they were perceiving so much value that they felt badly showing up and not paying anything. So I Are you ready for this? I went to a whopping $10 a person per month. Yes, $10. And what's funny about that to me is that the jump from 0 to 10 was so full of fear. I was just pooping in my pants everywhere I went thinking no one's gonna Oh, my God, They're all gonna leave.

They're all gonna hate me. Oh, ego involved. And then we'll not worked and open ran away. I was so blown away that I thought I would it like, Can I keep doing that? So way haven't gone much farther. We're We're now 35 bucks a month for online community and which is like literally more than I mean. It's like a dollar in some a day. It's cheaper than a lot every day. Ah, and if you join a city, one of our founding exchanges and you join pretty much in most of our cities at this point, you also joined the online community. So that's 60 bucks what used to be 35 35. So just to give you some math there,

how I came upon the $35 a month pricing, I Googled other communities, and I saw what's everybody else charging? And because anyone could do that online with communities, I certainly you know, I I picked a number that was slightly above what I was seeing on average, because I want them to know I want to give the perception that they're getting a lot more from us. By the way, they're getting way more than 35 bucks worth from us every month, but we're sort of, you know, I still feel like we're a bit of a startup, so we're starting there. We have a whole new form out of. Our exchanges were changing a lot right now at the founding mom's eso. Until we have another price hike,

I'm very happy where it is. There was no formula, literally. Everything I do is trial, trial and error.

I wanted to, um, switch gears a bit and talk about behind the scenes of your business because I know it's always really interesting for other makers and entrepreneurs to know, like the structure of teams and how founders get help. So I would love to hear from you. You know? How do you get everything done? What does your team look like? Or the folks that help you run

things? Yeah, I have a very small team. I have no employees. They are just contractors I had, and I have an awful lot of support of the way of our members. But we have a turn each city who's, you know, my eyes and ears on the ground in those different cities. I have a social media strategist on my team who helps with a lot of the content that we do for all of the content creation I was talking about? I have a designer slash developer. I can't live without her. We've worked together for over a decade. I literally worry about the day that she falls ill. What will happen? I'm so attached to her. Uh,

it's like everything I say she is able to design. And so what you see on founding mom's dot com is from my brain, But is all of her It's amazing to me I can't draw a stick figure to save my life. I have three virtual assistance. I'm a huge V a proponent. I think you're all missing out if you don't have one. Uh, because they're extremely affordable and amazing at getting things done with you. I have some folks who helped run are different programs. So we have a business coaching program within the founding mom's community s. Oh, there's a woman who is our business coach, sort of leader of that program. Everyone involved, I have a podcast co host, Uh,

you have an engineer of that podcast s. So it's funny. I always think I have a very tiny team. It's a lot of people. It's just formally, according to the I. R. S. There's no one who works with me, e. I

love that. I'm curious as to how three virtual assistants work. You must have a super busy inbox. Don't

know if you know what's funny. Whoa! Forbidden flack. I'm a slacker. Okay, well, one of them, I call her our founding exchange director. She helps me organize all of the offline universe. I have another one who is just a research person who just helped me find contacts. We do a lot of sponsorship stuff at the founding moms. Then I have 1/3 1 who comes in and out but sort of helps of design here in this amazing

right. Okay, So they're also because I was thinking, like, you know, in the original sort of old school way of an assistant, someone that's sort of doing your scheduling and this and that. And I was like, she asked three. She must be, like in and out

calls and meetings and office scheduling. I don't understand why people do. I can't stand those calendars online. I do all know scheduling. I think I'm a little old school more way. I don't know I don't understand. I have fights with lots of people about this because everybody else seems to love it. But it's not for me, e. I think as a community leader, you might find this, too, even though I do have a team. I freaking love my team more than anybody. I tend to lean on so many other people on the daily for advice, because it's just how I'm used to doing things of building a community. If I have a marketing question and nobody on my team might know it,

I go to my marketing friend. She's not on my team officially, but she'll give me great advice. You know, like I have what will like that in my world.

I love that, Yeah, I'm the same. I love just the pockets of groups of different individuals who are incredibly, you know, up skilled on things compared to me, me that I could just get their advice room. It's not to be underestimated. Amazing. So just as we're nearing the end of our interviews, sadly, I want to keep you on the phone and just download your brain and learn everything. I wanted to ask you two questions just because these are the questions that are makers love the most, and the 1st 1 is about your own personal development, leadership, development, founder development. How do you invest in yourself? And then I will ask you the second question.

Next we're singing that I go and I get manicures and facials all the time, but I don't. How long did this to myself? You know what I'm I'm constantly, constantly reading, listening to other podcasts at just educating myself all the time. On the latest, greatest newest, I rely on my mem bers toe. Let me know what they're reading or learning. We're all kind of learning together and doing this and growing. It's so funny. I have to drink the Kool Aid. If my organization is built upon the idea that I'm helping you build a better business, you can be sure I drink the Kool Aid and I also learned how to build a better business from them. So I kind of feel like we're all just doing it together all the time. I don't even I love that question, but that's what I do. No,

I think that's incredible and it works and look great. And you know how you do it. That's incredible. So my second working for you being product hunt? We're obsessed with products. Whether that's an app, are you smart home device? Anything really might even be, like, fun. Little gadget, little toy tengri thing. So this is my favorite part of the show. Because I just got to ask you what products you're obsessed with right now.

Oh, yeah. And by the way, I'm so obsessed that I told you I have a daily newsletter, ding. When it goes out, I put in a tool at the bottom of my newsletter. People love it. I always get them from product hunt. So Oh, hello. Your eyes a little bit from your site. Uh, like what? I don't even know where to begin with tools. I am obsessed with slack. You got our where I found a tool called Loom Lom that just bring shots for free or video of your screen.

Um, I absolutely love and still recommend a product you guys recommended a long time ago called Marco Polo that if you turn it on and then you drop your phone between the couch cushions, you can shout. Marco and your phone will shout polo so you could find that out. There goes that we haven't done well. Highly recommend

Isa Love.

Playing that game in the booth level are really too many. I could go on and on, but I won't.

That's good for now. I love it. Thank you. Now for folks who've been listening and they want to find out more about you. More about the community. Where should they go?

Love for you all to go to founding mom's dot com. We are doing a ring vamp. You're never supposed to tell people that. But it's coming, eh? So what you see there might be gone tomorrow. And although literally everywhere, if you look up Jill Saltzman or you go toe at founding mom or at founding Mom's anywhere, you will find me. So reach out. I'd love to hear from you. Tell me how terrible this interview was telling. You know, start in exchange somewhere. Anyone of anything let

me know. Well, Jill, thank you so much for being on the show today. Thanks for

being on product. Leukemia. Fantastic. You're awesome.

Hey, everyone, Thank you so much for tuning into product hunt Radio I've got a favor to ask you. Will you take a minute to review us on iTunes, Apple, Paul Cuffs or wherever you're listening to us right now. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. We'll be back next week. But in the meantime, shared the podcast, Your friends on Twitter and tag on guest. Do you like to hear in a future episode See you soon.