Hello and welcome to the ride. That podcast. This is your host, kiddos Volsky. Some of you may know me as that guy could never shows up to anything because he's too busy hanging out with his kids. But if I'm around, I show up with a microphone today. My guest on the show is Drew Wilson. Since recording this episode, Drew actually sold his latest company, Gold plus a to go, Daddy. So we're not gonna talk a lot about entrepreneurship or running a company, But we will talk a lot about traveling with Children because at some point in time, Drew took his entire family, rented an RV and went traveling through every state in America. If you wanna be Van lifer like me,

this is gonna be an awesome at socialism. Also, if you're into traveling with your kids, then listen to the end of the episode where I'll mention some other ad at episodes to talk a lot about traveling with your family. And there's a lot of information that will help you to figure out how to travel anywhere to go. Now, without further ado, let's get true. Welcome to the show. Your design software But some people on the Internet would call you a designer. And some people say your software guy. And when I look at your website and when the work you do, I'd say you're a product guy. And I think what's so fascinating about it is that you just ship stuff. It seems like whenever you have an idea, you actually build it.

So many people would go and say I have an idea and then, you know, not take it anywhere and the timeline of the projects you've created and you sold a couple of them it really is a good indicator, like how active you're and creating stuff. Um, so what's your kind of monster there about building stuff and creating?

Yeah, uh, I guess them in a different position than most people in that I like making things and and I like seeing what I've made, like, come to life. And, uh and I guess when I when I start like I said, I just started designing in 1986. Before that, I was like, really in the arts and crafts and all that kind of jazz, and I was gonna be an artist or whatever But then I got a computer design and shoulder shopping was two point. Oh, my dad needed it for his his work. He does comic stuff and he was making a catalogue and using Photoshopped to currently out the pages back in the day in the mid nineties. And I wanted to see the designs that I'm creating my come to life, and I wanted to see them actually do what the design say they're gonna do because you designed something.

It's like, you know, Apple with this. Is that the other thing and it supposed to do something? But if it's just a design, it's not doing anything. Uh, and I didn't know anybody who coated eso into, and I never want to coax that. So nerdy, um, so in 2002 a bit the bullet and learned PHP. And then it turned out I love coding and designing systems that so that's what I ended up doing. From then on, it's be able to take my own designs, code them out on,

then also build out the back end. And it's fantastic cause you get like one one person's idea from start to finish, and I think It's fun. I just I enjoy it. If I wasn't doing this for work, I'll be doing it for fun. Um, and there are there many people who say it be great to be, you know, the best in the world at one thing and not, you know, mediocre it a bunch. But there's also such a thing as being the best in the world, that doing all the things I'm working towards, that being the best tour in the world, that doing all the things right.

That's that's not really. I mean, it's mainly it's like I love learning and some people like me do not want to learn certain things. I did not want to learn coding. I just didn't want to do it. I just want to focus on this other stuff. But once I lived, I was like, Wait, what was I thinking? Like, This is fun. I like this because even informs my designs like it because I know how this is gonna interact with the database. I will change the way my designs look and work. You can not do that unless you have that knowledge. So if you're designing out there,

you want to take your stuff to the next level, learn engineering, learn how systems work. You don't have to become an engineer, but go to the point of not just reading about it, studying it, actually build something. Then you'll actually know how systems work when you actually make something yourself, I would suggest instead of designing it could be a company where you at right now, and just to be safe thing over and over and over at different companies. Take a year still be employed or whatever you were doing. But in your off time, instead of making designs, build a system right code, Then the following year, you know,

years of super short the following year you'll have a way better understanding of design that pixels on. You'll understand it better because you understand software on a different level, and everything you do will be better. Um, guaranteed s O. If you want to get better, I suggest you you branch out

and I was gonna go everybody. The answer to Should designers code by Drew Wilson. I

think that's the wrong question. I think the question is, should I be able to do what I wanted to do, and the answer to that is yes. So if you don't want to do that, don't do it. I don't think you have to. I don't think it's signing Has to you whatsoever. I think it will make you better. And if you wanna be better, do things to make you get better

and made it better is not even well. It's the right term in some context, like it's not gonna make you a better designer in the way you are. But if you want to be a designer for certain type of products, you know it will make you more aware.

For example, one of these nine software APS. If you learn and actually build one yourself, you will be a better designer. Excell, designer, architect in designer at Suffer, an APS

I agree. Yeah, and I mean this is not dead related, but I think in many ways, actually like in parenting and start ups, they're very similar because there's just so much information and so much to do and you never have time and you always sleep deprived, right, so you have to pick what's best for you. But you kind of got to think about what's actually important for you and do that thing. And it doesn't matter what people think

there's. There's no reason to become the best of the best. There's no reason to do it. You don't have to do it now because you should never feel pressure to become the best of what you're doing. But if you have that in you and you want to do that and you're looking for a way to get better than definitely they had a write code

Do you think this mentality came from you growing up with your dad? You said your dad was an artist.

Hey was not an artist. I mean, he was good at drawing pictures, but he had a comic book company. Hey was an entrepreneur. So he had a comic, his comic book company, where he had a mail order catalogue, the 1st 1 of its kind, really where you could he would mail you accountable Gurley's comics that he has, and he would sell it to you, right? So he bought old comics and then resold them. And so we had customers like, uh, Steven Spielberg, Mark Ham or Nicolas Cage.

It was so cool for us to put the labor were worshipping these out to put the labels as kids to put the labels on for these movie stars. You know, the kid is cataloguing the buy comics, right? So he had a common but coming I grew up in the comic world cartoon world. That kind of stuff is, is where I come from. It's a matter of fact, my brothers, I'll have comic book business is, uh, I don't

There's another business to add Thio a long list. But what's it like to have three kids and do what you do?

Yeah, it's I mean, it's fun. Uh, I myself have always wanted to have kids. Um, and ever since I was like, you know, I always imagined myself of the family couldn't make the kids that kind of thing. I got married at 21. I got married early, and I was 26 when we had it first. And we're always, like saying, Yeah, we're gonna have, like,

five kids because I come a family of eight. My wife comes from a family of five and I get five times, probably good. And then we have one. We're like, Yeah, let's rethink that. Let's rethink that on then have three. We stop so well, the three kids. But no, it's it's super fun. I love it, and I love hanging around that. It's it's kind of while that I think most ads can relate to this. It's like you either are your physical body.

Either exists at work or exists with your family, your kids and I don't do anything that I do. Those two things, Um, and it's cool, like they're really little right now. And I've, as I mentioned, I've always wanted kids, and along with that comes like you this idea of like, I wanna have a super good relation with my kids and hang out with them, you know, all through their teens and you know, the young twenties and just be pals with them, right? And so when they're young right now,

I always imagined myself having a house and having like a an office and, you know, it's a separate building behind the house. And then I would basically work from home for for all my life kind of thing. And I had always worked from home up until a year and 1/2 ago, after I raised money for plastic and I got an office here, got employees, that kind of thing. It obviously can't have him coming in your house. Eso CS. So now I work out of an office instead, which for me was like a a very difficult transition. I felt like I was failing as a father because I wasn't for Kiefer, which is crazy because, like every other Dad in the world doesn't normally. But when I was because I was used to like working from home and like,

that's what I wanted for my life. Like it was weird when when I didn't and I wasn't like cause I had, like, this open door policy when my kids couldn't run in and hang out with me while I'm working kind of thing. And when all that goes away and you gone for, like, eight hours a day, it's It's weird not being around kids as much as you used to be. And I just come off of this year long RV trip where I was not even working. Actually, I wanted to work because I needed the work that needed money. But traveling full time turns out to be a full time job. There's no way to really work. So I was around them all the time and, you know, it was great.

It was stressful because I wasn't working that I'm not rich enough. Just did not work. Uh, but yeah, I don't know. It was a hard transition for me to come to work, but now that I do like, you know, it's receipt off that bad. I work down. I work on mile from the house. So I went down the street. It's really not that bad. And

Ryan Carl's will let you probably

ride a bicycle. So it's fun. It's fun. And, yeah,

Were you able to actually get a lot of work done while working from the house? Because I personally find it. You look at my wedding. Tell me. Well, I mean, you ship work, but do you feel like maybe I guess when you're working on your own things, it's a lot easier? Because even if you're right, that correct me if I'm wrong? But you know you work for 45 minutes in, your son comes down. You're like a sure let's go hang out for 20 minutes, right? But If if people expect you to be in Cole's or you'll be available

100%. Yeah, it was different for me. I I didn't I haven't ever worked. Actually, I've never worked for somebody else other than one job at a print shop. I've always just work for myself. So and, you know, client work could arguably be arguably be. I'm working for myself. But if you do client work like designs, they're coating, then you still can make your own hours, that kind of thing. But ever since my kids have been around, I've been I made all my money for my own projects.

So, uh, yeah, definitely had the freedom to just, you know, take any amount of time off when I want It didn't have to be anywhere at any specific times. That's different. Now, Uh, I have to be, like, in office available, that kind of thing. But yeah, when I was working from home because I had that, uh,

it was easy, and I enjoyed it, but it was a very difficult transition to go from zero kids toe one kid. That was definitely the hardest. Where, as soon as you sit your butt down in the chair to get focused immediately. Stand up and you have to go help out with this other thing when you come back and you get the about to sit down and start working like, Oh, you gotta get up and help for this year. So it took a while for that transition to happen, And it took a while for me to be like like, okay with that, like suddenly I don't have 24 7 focus mode because you know, you're not single or kid Lis anymore. Oh, yeah,

that was that was a transition. But for me, it took a couple of months. And I just realized I like, you know, I'm gonna make a conscious choice. To be like this is more important, like these. Helping out these little ways is more important than the work. So I'll just like, consciously, like, have a good attitude about it or not get fired up inside about like, Oh, no, I don't.

I'm not back at work or not, you know, writing code. So once I made that like switch in my brain, everything got better. And then eventually got, you know, way better is super fine. So

no, this is great, because this is precisely what the spirit of fried that is all about, right Thio to make a conscious choice that you will put your family first and that you will make in with them a priority and that you can do things that way. You just need to be aware of and and so many people. And I think it's a lot easier when you're single, but it's a lot easier to you just hang out in the office and play foosball. You know, go play counterstrike with him or whatever and call that quote unquote work or even, just, you know, counted as ours that you do something. And with kids, it seems like you really you're with kids and you're with work. Like you said, right, And there's

nothing in these. If you're single right now, you listen to this, or if you just don't have kids and you listen to this and you in your career is important to you and your ambitious like make good use is time. You don't realize it right now, but you actually have the equivalent of four times the amount of time as somebody that's got three kids. Uh, you have gobs of time. You don't realize how much time you have right now. That's crazy. But I have one kid. I was like, I was like, Oh, my gosh. Like I'm like, no time.

And then you have two kids you like. What was I thinking with one kid? Pretty much I had no kids. Like, is easy breezy lemon squeezy. And then you got three kids you like, hold my word with two kids. And what was that? That was like, nothing has you as cancer like way. You don't realize how much free time you had to eventually get to know every time.

So way just upgraded from one kid to two kids about seven months ago. And I can totally relate. Yeah,

one kidney like Well, we basically were. No, we had no kids. Basically,

Yeah, you have what you like. You know, that was tiring. I didn't sleep. You, like, know now. And I sleep like that and I have a meeting to your friend was like six kids. I'm not sure how that works.

Yeah, so I know it's kind of it's kind of funny, too, because it's there's when you talk about rad dads and I think that's cool that you're doing this because there is the mentality like the old mentality of like the dad goes to work and he doesn't spend much like like, I don't know what you would call it, but like soul time, I've never used that word before. Except right now we're like, You're just you're being intimate with your kids, like on it getting down with them like on an intimate level on like, you know, talking about who they are, helping them figure out the world, that kind of stuff. You know, um, I feel like that never existed,

even up to probably our generation, like our parents weren't really that way. I'm sure they were definitely people that were, but I think on the whole it wasn't that way, and I feel like it's It's kind of changing now, like dads are getting more involved in everything, and it's interesting because you'll have like your friends Andi. You'll see them have kids and you'll be able to see the influence of their parents on them, or maybe their personal ambitions of how they're going to raise kids. But you see, some of them following like the old way of things were like, They don't wake up in the middle of the night to help you know the mom out with the baby or they don't change diapers. So the doctor, this or that and the other thing. And I think it's cool that you're highlighting this about tends to, you know,

make that effort to be like that is my kid. You know, of course I want to change your diaper. Of course, I want to, like, get up and help my wife the middle night kid equal sleep that kind of stuff because I think that's important if you're if you're going to be a dad soon, or if you are like, definitely, definitely help your wife. Just cause you're going to work does not mean that your job is somehow harder than hers. So should definitely be splitting that responsibility. And let's make your marriage

a lot better. And to be honest, it depends on the job, I think. But I would even go out to say that some jobs that probably

easier as you go down, you sit at a desk job and you don't really have much responsibility or an employee. You're not running anything. When you clock out, you don't take any work home. If you have that kind of job, your job is vastly easier. Vastly than being, you know, state home, home or stay at home. Dad,

I'll have this block post published eventually. But I think a lot of people who don't have kids yet or like the dads who were not very involved, you know, it's really did you think like, Oh, you're just staying at home with kids Old day and it's like you go and try to stay with, yes, even one Never mind two or three, even one. Try to stay or do something with them all day. And because you like running a marathon simultaneously emotionally and physically, and like this thing maps and you don't know a thing, and then it gets like another boost of energy. It's insane, right? People don't realize it. So yeah, but you're saying this because I think it's important, like other dads and soon to be dead. So you should realize that really, like the stuff is hard and

definitely helped me. That's like not everyone is this way. But I mean, I personally and I'm not trying to get anybody that doesn't do what I do at all. I understand everyone's got their own ideas, how they want to live their life. But I personally like when I come home I haven't surfed in a long time because if I come home, my kids are at home. I feel guilty just like me. No peace out. I'm gonna go serve when this is my time hanging out with them. You know what I mean? Like or like peace out to my wife like keep watching the kids for another couple hours. Why go surf by myself? Having fun? I would have got that for me. It's like super heart.

I haven't because I would just feel good time like I'd rather spend this time with my kids and then like when they're old enough to like, come serving Maid, that I'll take serving me. I don't know. It's it's weird because I never thought I'd be the kind of parent that was like, really attached to their kids where I remember my wife and I having a conversation, Um, before we had kids and we were hanging out with somebody that had just had a kid. And we're like, we're never gonna be like that. We're never gonna be like, Oh, we can't, like, drop our kids off here. They're like,

and then just, you know, go away for a week or something like that. We're going to do that. We're just gonna, you know, trump our kids up here. There you go away for a week. It will be that kind of, you know, I think is our relationship is more important than you know, kids you don't realize once you have kids, like how that totally changes, like you don't see, like you don't see somehow your marriage being more valuable than, like your kids.

You see them as equal, you know, I mean, like, you see your cases like these amazing things that you love, and it's kind of weird, actually. Experience going from 1 to 2. It's like, yeah, they're still in, like, how am I gonna love this next kid? As much as I love my first kid, I feel like that's not possible suddenly have me, like in your mind, I guess I can't love them all equally. It's crazy. Uh,

and they become the integral part of your family. So it's not like you should. You should probably take some time alone and some time with your wife away from kids. But they become integral part of its okay. I wouldn't want to go and say, like, go to a national park by myself because now I could bring them and show them what exists out there. I could. So

it's like you only like you've lived your life for in most cases, 20 something years before you had kids, sometimes 30 years before you have kids and now you got kids like this was a conscious choice you made, and I feel like it's a big responsibility. And if you're going to, like, do it, Theun make the most of it. You know what I mean? Like, who cares if you have to set aside all of your own personal hobbies for five years? It's not that big of a deal. You've already done it for 30 or 25 years. You get back to it and fighters later. So

it's like was five years, Yeah, but let's talk about this for a second. You said you have your first kid when you were 26. So if you want to go back and do it again, do you think you do wait for a couple of years or I'll just kind of anything there

that you would have done differently? No, it's it's weird, actually. Like weed. My wife and I decided, like we're gonna be married for four years before we have any kids and ended up being like that exact amount of time. Um, I I I'm glad I had kids when I had kids because I energy when you're younger, and I look at other people that I know that waited until they were older, and it's much harder for them. Not that it's impossible, just much harder, because you just physically don't have the energy. So I'm glad I had kids early, as I did, Uh,

also, too, because now my kids air out of the House age. I'm not gonna be super old, so that's cool.

You'll be, you'll be. The young

dad goes 50 I guess. 48 or something like that.

Yeah, well, let's let's talk about the trip that you gets to go together. How How did you even think of just going away for a year

and s Oh, um, my it's hard for my wife to be away from her extended family, and we live down here, and all of our family lives elsewhere up in the Pacific Northwest. So we don't have any family down here really other than my brothers, and but they're incapable of watching Children. Uh, so yeah. So she wanted to move back a handful of times, and I was like, I did not want to go back. And so eventually, Okay, fine. Even though it rips my soul part home of factory. So back to Washington state,

I let her pick the place, you know, the area would live and everything, and then we're going to do it for a year, and we got six months, and she really doesn't like it as much as we thought either. So we found which missing? No, she she likes that. You know, she likes Carlsbad because it'll be like fog in the morning in gray, and it's never too hot here. So she likes that, uh, for her is mostly like a lifestyle differences, But they're verses down here kind of thing,

and, uh so? So six months in, we got rid of, uh, we got rid of the lease and we got someone to take it over. And we randomly decided, like, as we were thinking about, like, how long are we really gonna be here? Like maybe we should just like it already and travel the US and we're like, And then it just kind of like we looked into it, has researched it, and as we did that we, like,

got more and more excited about it. So we decided, Let's just do it. Um, wasn't doing one kid. I don't handle three. So our youngest, when we move into washing, was six months old. And so by this time, she was, like, just just turned a year. Um and so we decided. Yet let's do it. Let's let's head out.

And actually, she was Yeah, she was just just a year. And, uh so we I had never even been in an RV before, let alone drive one. Uh, and neither did she. And so we got an RV is the fifth wheel actually hooks into the bed of your truck. Big 42 foot 1 to 2 bedroom, two bathroom on more and more bathrooms in the place. I stayed in San Francisco after we were done with it. Thats huge F 33 you Dooley, Long bed, Ford truck and yeah, and then the first time I ever drove RV was when I picked it up at a Portland,

Oregon, had to drive it through downtown. That was crazy. And then yeah. From then on, we just We cruise and we ended up staying in every single state in the US other than Alaskan Hoi and stayed motile days and each one and it was cool. We got to see, see the country, and our kids got to do to and like my daughter, my youngest. She learned how to walk in the RV if she took her first steps there. That's crazy.

That's pretty insane. I mean, three kids and two adults, and I can't even imagine how big the bus needs to

be in order to like. The back of it was like a bunkhouse. So there's three bunk beds back there, and that's what they stayed. Way stayed in the front and every every almost every day, you know, you got a new backyard. It was pretty

cool. Was that the goal to drive through all the way?

Let's just loop the U. S. I just, you know, go around it

and

you've got a way. Just decided a circle, you know, go around the coasts basically in the borders. But we we had the only thing only two things we had to do that we had prearranged waas. We're going to go to Disney World for 12 days and stay at the campground there. They have, like a RV campground at Disney Will put on by Disney. Says it's red supercool. It's called them Fort Wilderness. Yeah, our camp over. Just one of those two. Um, yeah, but it's obviously a lot cheaper than staying in a hotel there. And then we had that in February,

and then we had the next month in March I had I was speaking at a conference in Texas. Those the only two things that would like I had already, like, agreed to the conference and we wanted to do Disney World because we've never been so those who don't want to think so. We kind of breeze through the Pacific Northwest, just skated on so it could have been like we grew up there, so we had seen it all. And then we wait. We didn't stay the night in each one on. Then we kind of Greece to California. Seen most all of it. Um and then Ah, yeah. Then we went through the Southwest, which is radical, and all through the South,

down to the Florida. Then we had Theo Cruise back up to Texas, and then we went up up over towards Kansas and then kind of made a way back through the Midwest, back down to Georgia and then went up the East Coast and comes exact across the top, all the way back to the Pacific Northwest, where we ended up when we're done and sold the RV back to the place. I bought it from basically well, they consigned it in, they sold it for me. So is that it was a year trip. And if you break it down and there's 52 weeks in a year, there's 50 states for 48 that we saw. That's like a just over a week per state. And when we first started, we didn't know we were going to see him all it wasn't until we got back down to Georgia. After going back to Texas up to Kansas,

coming back through the Midwest, they're like we kind of hit all the mains, you know, the states in the middle already wed. Might as well see it. All right, After we're in Georgia, we stayed at this super rad place right on the coast in South Carolina by murder, right, Right in Myrtle Beach. And, uh, it's near Charleston. And we were there for three weeks. You just kept extending our stay, cause the camp,

like where we put our view, is like a stone's throw from the beach. And it was amazing. Place was awesome. And at that time, we decided the yellow just see all the states that then we kind of changed our game plan. But we'd already burned a lot of time, So we have, on average, we stayed at his estate for about four days. And so you're driving like, every four days, and it's Yeah, it's crazy. It's a lot of driving. It's a lot of gas.

Does that schedule work well

for kids, you know? I mean, people always think of that. Like, what about the kids. And when they say there were kids in their mind, they think of this structured life where they wake up and they go to school in X y Z time they get home. They have dinner X y z time to go to bed, excellency time. But if your kids have never done that before, that's not their structure, right? So kids really easy when it comes to when it comes to like inventing new structures. So for them, that was life. That's just how it always had been.

Their memories don't go back very far when they're that little. So that's all they know. Answer for them is yes, perfectly fine. We because of safety reasons, we didn't, you know, stay in the RV while we're driving. We stayed as we got a big Ford truck. You know, they sat in their car seats in the Ford truck. Um, and we tried to limit our drives to a maximum of eight hours during the day, but that that was our maximum. But we always pretty much always were around 4 to 5 hours. We never really wanted to go farther than that.

So we only drove 4 to 5 hours between spots. Typically, Yeah, and so that so every few days he'd have to sit in the car for four hours. But that's

about it. Yeah, well, four hours is reasonable, and I guess they get into coming. It's right Eventually becomes the norm. Do you? Do you remember any states where you found something remarkable that you didn't exactly expected that stay,

I think kind of right off the bat shortly actually started. New Mexico surprised me in that it has everything. It's got huge, vast plains like prairies where you'll be up driving on this road and you won't see a single structure anywhere on the horizon or near you anywhere. Like it's just this big rolling plains. And then they've got mountains like it's like this ski resort, and right at the bottom of it is the Alamogordo Desert White Sands. So they got, like, full desserts, like with dunes and everything. Yes, sir. They've got a very diverse state there. I mean, they don't have a beach, so I mean,

other than California, I mean, they've got to be the most diverse state. California, by far is the most diverse because it's so big and spans vertically. Such a large part of the US that it's got everything, but other than that, I mean, it just is pretty incredible. It was cool. It's very, very cool state. The East Coast I had. I only spent a small amount of time on before. Andi was cool, seeing all the you know,

just the history there. It goes back so much further than anything in the West, and so that was really, really cool. The bummer about the East Coast versus West Coast. And I'm sure if you're from the East Coast and you don't drive on the West Coast, you don't even know it exists. But on the East Coast, you gotta pay to drive everywhere like it's no, it's normal. Like to drive on a toll toll road on the West Coast. It's like a treat. It's like there's a toll road. Ooh, maybe it'll be less traffic and Toby's past, and they're always super nice,

like hardly anyone's ever driven on the toll roads here. And, uh, and it's not that expensive. It's the opposite over there. It's like expensive. The toll roads of justice matters. The normal freeways that potholes and what kind of jazz, and they're crowded. And it's like, What is this concept where a toll road is just It's weird. It's like, totally different, right? But that's just what they used to over there. And,

uh, and the bridges are so much older that they have, like, super old standards that they were built to, and so they're not very tall. So there are actually places that with our RV, we could not go because the roads were too small, like there'll be a bridge that was too small. And I remember one time pull off the side of the road. We're in the middle of nowhere and that we were coming across this like Little Train Bridge. And it said like, 11 foot something. And these things aren't accurately measured either. So you never know. And I'm like, That's like where,

like 13 is like is my safe limit like we're not exactly were 13 6 of my safely. We're right around 13 so I kind of over gonna make this thing. I tried to get out and get like a measuring tape, but I can't I can't. It's a two lane road, and there's no media So, like if I'm on the road, I'm in the way blocking traffic. But there's no shoulder. Some like only partially off the road. And there was a hill is like at a hill. So if I wanted to go measure thing, I have to drive my trail up to the hill, stand on my truck to, like, be able to reach up there to measure.

But I would be totally blocking traffic and no one could see me coming up with the other way. So it's like a super precarious thing. We like Jamie. Well, let's call the police and get someone out here to, like, help us turn around cause you couldn't turn around. There was nowhere to turn around. It was ditches on either side. It was this weird, horrible situation, and but we had no reception, so he couldn't call the police. So we're like, we're gonna stay out here forever or was gonna make it through. And luckily there was some delivery truck that came and it went through fine.

Coming the other direction. And I was like, Okay, based on how tall that thing was, I feel like I will be fine. So just like, crossed our fingers, drove through, hoping that our A C units wouldn't get scraped off the tough of our trade our RV that way. So we've just barely braced under it, and we're good. But there's in most cases, roads give you a warning about an upcoming bridge at the height of it. In that case, there was no warning. There was no signs.

So and it and other times like up in New York State, we will just have to get off the freeway because it says, Oh, upcoming bridge 10 feet like Yeah, no way. Just get off the freeway.

That's I guess that's a good lesson for right to think about what this heist

RV is. A Southwest, Arizona and New Mexico. Huge freeways, huge, huge shoulders, massive bridges because breezed through that thing never had have a worry in the world. All flat roads. If you want to learn how to interview, go there,

yeah, a Z talking about this. I'm looking into map and it hits me. And my wife and I have also talked about going on an RV or some kind of cross country trip, right, because now is the best time to do it anyways. Well, the kids are still young. Yeah, I don't have to go to school. Would be, like on it was scheduled, and I'm looking the map. I'm like, Yeah, he's right. Like if you even if you want to spend a couple of days in every state that's basically going to take an entire year to part of the whole country and you don't think about it if you like.

Yeah, well, you know, sure. I could drive across the country in a couple of days when I'm single and you know, by myself, Yeah. And the RV

and kids in this. I was gone for a year, but I was like, I was like, cruising for you. I was like, I was, like, storming between place to place to place to place to place the place, the place, that it was not like some relaxing kind of thing, which is not what we expected nor were anticipating. So it's fine, but it's not like this. I'm just gonna, like, chill out here for a long time.

Shut up there for long is not that way at all. Like if you want to see everything in a year. You gotta You gotta go. You gotta move. And, uh and and that's what we did. So I don't

In hindsight, do you think it makes sense to break the trip up and say, like, three or 4/4 and do it that way?

I mean, if it goes, it goes to see the whole US. I would suggest going longer than a year. Uh, but it all depends on if you have kids. I mean, if you could go for a long year, that'd be ideal. If you don't have kids, then you probably do easy. So the thing is, too when you got kids and you're an RV, you kind of gotta be really quiet after, like, seven. PM when you put it to bed 7 30 you know,

you wake him up so and you can't leave and you can't get a baby sitter. So at seven pm, you're just like they're in the R V. Luckily, ours had two bedrooms on opposite sides RV. So we could, like, watch a movie or something in our room while they're asleep. Uh, but yeah, it's ah, it's crazy cause part of seeing America that would be really fun would be to see, like the nightlife and go check out things that night. But that just doesn't exist. When you have kids in an R V, I can't just leave him there.

So what she's saying, get a longer army and bring

That might actually really horrible.

Probably. Yes, I read. The schools are ripe

for destruction, and those things air, the quality controls horrid. There's not well put together. It's all built for people like, you know, sun setting at the end of their life kind of thing. And so when you go to these RV parks, they're all geared towards that age group. There's not tons of stuff for kids because nobody travels and our views of kids really. It turns out we rarely saw other families on a trip,

So were you able to find

one single? So there are. They're not plenty. There's a handful of RVs that have two bedrooms and two bathrooms. There's not time. It really isn't. There's like 67 I know stuff like that. They got that specifications. Mine had to have a desk, and I got the one RV that had a desk, and it's not really a desk. It was literally the width of my Mac and depth wise. It was barely enough to squeeze a keyboard next to the foot of my Mac. And so, like you needs air smashed up against the wall. It's a desk, and I didn't have room for my master.

I'd put my mouse up on the dresser that was next to it, but it was a desk somewhere. I could put my Mac and, uh, and it happened, also fit. My wife suspects she wanted something that had the least amount of formaldehyde, the least amount of chemicals. And it was like a green certified kind of thing, which we researched into it called the Green Group that actually doesn't certifications. And there's really no actual guidelines that they check, so it's kind of a joke, but they can. Marketing wise, I could just put green certified, and but at least when you walk in most new RVs,

you walking like, Whoa, there's a huge smell of all that glue. They used to put everything together and at least in this one that wasn't really there, so she was cool with that. It was the only one that would fit like the rest of our specs. And so we grab that one, the Brookstone 3 65 So and you said you were trying to work, and I planned on, like only and will do his RV trip will be, like, focus on, you know, uh, you know, Placido,

and get that thing up to what I wanted to be and just have tons of time, but no, I mean, I think I turned on my computer like, 15 times during the whole trip is crazy.

And you were in

trying to be used for I tried website, but I didn't finish in time. That man traveling full time is a full time job. If I had to sit there and edit videos while my kids were out playing that kind of laying, you know, so I could never be hangout kiss than editing videos all day every single day. So, uh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I think people don't realize when you wore something like, Well, I think you know him, Casey. Nice. That boat isn't, You know, he's a popular YouTube figure, and he has, like, a team and himself doing this all day and all night long, right? Just to produce, like, five

minutes of entertainment here. Yeah, you would not have any time to actually do anything where you're at. I mean, that's the other thing we wanted to see. Where? Rats. Every day we're going to this natural Parker going to this city. You're doing that, you know? So there was really no downtime.

So in a way, you you really put a lot of dad time forward at that point in time. And now you you could go and, you know, spend time on Placid and have your kids do this thing for a

little bit. I like it's It's not unusual for somebody to have to for their job, fly out for a few days here, there. And for some people, that's their life. Like that's what they do all day. Um, for some people, they put their kids in before school programs and after school programs. I used to work as a before school after school teacher, and these kids come in at 6 a.m. and don't leave till 6:30 p.m. Like we are their parents. You know what I mean? For some people, that's the situation they have to be in because, you know, if they live in expensive area and they don't have enough income like this is the only option for them.

And so it's no fault to them, really. But it's it's not that crazy for me to take one week out of every six months And, uh and you do a cave week. So I know it's kind of weird cause I got g m's from other people, like, basically shaming me for doing that. I'm like, What in the world are you talking about? I've seen you on Twitter, go to a conference for five days. How is that different? Like I don't get it. But

okay, wait. Like with people gmu to tell

you I didn't people d m and be like, Yo, you're really bad influence on the community. You work too much. You took your setting. This the standard for people that you know they need to, like work as much digital like people don't really realize how much I work. Nobody. They look at themselves to me like how protective of my If I were able to put out what Drew puts out, that means I would have to work extra hours. But maybe it's maybe you're just not as productive as me like So if you Well, you spend one hour doing this and I understand why we're doing this. Maybe I get done before you. So maybe it works out to my eight hours is like two times or eight hours, you know, that kind of thing. So people don't really think that way.

They don't realize they don't put themselves in my shoes. They just put that they put me in their shoes and they say, Brother, rubber ball. You do this, that the other thing wrong, right? Because they're putting me in their shoes and they don't really take the second to be, like, eventually put myself in his shoes,

you know? Yeah. And I think people don't realize that once you get kids, you become hyper focused. I mean, you could be like that without kids as well. But all the things that you could do without kids now go out of the window because you just have other values. There's so much more important. Yeah, but, you know, periscope. A couple weeks ago, somebody asked in of all you know, the investor from San Francisco how much he works. And he said, Well,

you guys have probably hate me for saying this, but he's like I work less than 20 hours a week because he's, like, work, a stuff you really don't want to do And everything else is really not work is just like life, all right, so I think it's maybe the same for you were like, You transition from work to projects to kids in the way where we're working.

You just Exactly. And I think it was asked that question and they could probably clarify it to him better. And then he would be able to give a better answer isn't to say you know, how much time are you spending in a professional atmosphere outside of your family? You know that that that might be there. But a definition of traditional work, right? And in that case, I'm sure he does wait with 20

hours a week. Yeah, If you were to give a couple advice to new dads or maybe families who are around the same age with kids, what would it be? What we just say is, like, make or break things,

maybe, or something Yeah, how involved of a parent they want to be whether or not they've consciously thought through that their decisions in their life as far as like, what they do with their time will dictate that. And if you do want to take time to think about that, I mean, I would highly suggest taking the time to find out who your kids are like early on and what they're into, because you can connect with them on that level. And I just practically mean, like, what are you into? Not what are you into in the sense of like, I think like some likes Pokemon Sol's buying some parking cars, whatever. But I mean, like, what about the Pokemon?

Is he into? And you could take the information and use. The adults are aware of many things that kids are learning. You confined other things that he might actually be into that, you know, maybe have a mom or not get more fun, the Pokemon, but maybe have a more fun aspect to it. Or maybe more educational aspect to our Maybe they were are just a different aspect to life that they might enjoy, like one of the things that make a point of is, too. Show my kids what, like art really is. And so YouTube is great way to do that. I can show them what street art is like. People doing chalk joins on the ground.

I could show them like glass blowing, extra them all those like traditional things and also all the crazy things, too. And you could do that same thing with science. You could do the same thing with even that you could show it was like interesting things. So they understand. Like what math is practically like. If you just take the time to see what your kids are into and, uh, and exposed them to things, I feel like you could make them super well rounded and super excited about life rather than just kind of like going through life, like all they know, is like what's in their room and like what's around the house you can you can really give your kids. You could grant them like a genie curiosity. If you just show them what's out there and not like, talk to them like an adult but exposed them to things as if they were you know an alien from outer space,

and you just want to show them everything that's on planet Earth. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think you could give your kids curiosity, and I think that will help them when they're older, be able to find what it is they're into and want to do with their life a lot easier if they if they were aware of things. So, yeah,

it sounds like even if you don't

think that will help figure out, then I'll help you kind of figure out exactly what you could do with with them. Like when you are with them, you know, instead of like, Okay, now I'm finally at home. Let's figure out what I want you to my kids. Oh, it's you know, it's only got two hours until I gotta put in bed. I like to think of things like while you're at work that you could do with it when you get home. So you stopped autographs. I'm gonna do this or that other thing so that it is fun. Not that life has just be nothing but fun, fun, fun,

fun. But, you know, with their kids, that's what they respond to their response like, haven't find so yeah, If you can provide that for them, you can you could be really become I have a deeper relationship

with them That's extremely on point. But one last thing that I think is also equally as important as your kids is yourself. And you mentioned that when you guys moved to Washington State back from California, you found some lifestyle traces weren't quite fitting into your life on you said it on one of the interviews you've done before that you actually tried to be very healthy and eat healthy and exercise. What do you think is advised for parents to actually keep themselves? Yeah, shape on both mentally and physically.

So I may have, like a silent of perspective on it. And from my point of view, I kind of take life in stages. And I know my overall goal is that I want out of life. And I know that in order to get there, I have to go through different stages, right? And so right now, because of where that career wise and you can you can I believe in luck and that nobody who is famous and wealthy. You are successful, Whatever that is to you. I don't believe anybody got there without look, but you can kind of make luck. Uh, you can give yourself many opportunities to have luck strike you, right?

So the harder you work, the more opportunities you put yourself in. The Maura opportunity there is for luck to strike you right? Place and right. Time is what I mean by luck. You're in the right place at the right time. Um and so when I look in my life and career wise, I say, Okay, I'm in this fortunate position right now. I was able to raise money. I have a team. I don't want to squander this opportunity. And so I'm in a stage in my life right now where that is important, and no matter what stage I mean, family is also very important.

So for me, I've only got so much time in a day, and I want to make the most out of it. And so for me, when it comes to like keeping healthy and exercising right now, it's a point where I just fit in when and where I can. But previously in my life. It was very important. And it was a thing that I have set aside dedicated time to, um and because I did that now, when I don't have much time to exercise to do anything like that at all, Um, it that stuff kind of rolls over. So, like healthy eating, something super important in our family,

Uh, and also our form of exercise at our houses. We don't let our kids beyond their ipads unless it's a weekend or a long trip. They don't get to play video games, and this is the weekend. And during the week, it's just like face to face time kind of thing. And they only super healthy because actually to have pretty bench food allergies so they have no other option. Yeah, I don't know. I think like it's it's hard work. It takes time. It's like one of those things where if you need to change your diet, just gotta do it. I'm a kind of extreme person, So,

like when I want to lose weight, I'm not too worried about it. I'm like, Okay, finals have to gain weight because I just got to get through this crazy work. You know the next six months of crazy work. I'll just lose it all in, you know, a month I'll eat 700 calories a day, and that's it for I'm on straight and then I'll just lose it all. So I kind of see myself. It's like this valuable piece of clay on and I'm not, and I don't have anything against routine a regime at all. I think it's great. I wish I was there. But I have different goals for my life and those,

unfortunately, the steps to get to those goals don't really I can't really fit in routine with myself. So there was a point my life when I could. Right now I'm not in that point. So I think routines were healthy. But honestly, you're human being living on planet Earth. You could do whatever the crap you want. And for me, that means means making the most of the current opportunity I have and cutting everything else out. So, yeah, I don't know what that Could you Yeah,

that's perfect. Just remember that you are a human being. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's that's That's no way to get through the day too. Well, thank you for sharing your story. Talking about your trip, your kids, your work. I mean, it's been it's been red. I love that.

Please don't take anything I say to crazily just do what you're doing And just, you know, if your dad and you let the kids like focus focus on them like make more of an effort, I also need to make more. Everyone needs to make more of an effort to make sure that you are being, you know, their father, a good father, someone they can look up to. Well,

post there. You heard it through Wilson and his story. Now, if you want to hear more stories about parents traveling with your kids through a couple, ride that podcast, you should check out. Take a look at Mike Holden if you want to know about traveling with the newborn or a V L. Ginsberg for the same reason, he can also check out a podcast. Was Jeff Rawson about taking your older kids to Europe for a year? There's an episode was Jason Preston. If you want to know about vacationing with young Children in an episode with Michael Parent to about taking a crazy mountain climbing adventure with your teenage daughter. A link to all of these in the episode notes. And that's it for the day. Thank you and see you next time.