Welcome to the rad Dead podcast today. On the show, we talked to my friend Galen Ward, who is the CEO of a stately, a moderately growing tech company. Galen has two girls, ages three and four and 1/2. He's giving them a lot of freedom, which helps them to be friendly, open minded and enjoy themselves without stereotypes of what a girl's supposed to be. Galen and I will talk about the labor of parenting and how to efficiently divide and conquer it with your partner will discuss changes that occurred to your life and you as a person once your kids are born and we'll dig into waste to set your kids for success in this ever changing world full of sexism and stereotypes. Lastly, we'll cover some tips and tricks helpful to the new parents. Galen, Good morning. Welcome to the podcast. And could you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself and your kids?

My Children are three and four and 1/2 years old now, so I've had had them three and four and half years ago. They like. They like recounting that last night we were doing a lot of counting. How old was I two years ago? How old was I when I was born? I had a lot of questions like that. Sweet. A lot of discussion about that s o. You have two girls. They are rambunctious and like to climb on things and, uh, play with babies and also climb on trees and jump out of jump off high surfaces. And, uh, bro thinks they're pretty active. No,

I wasn't super active. I was pretty delicate. Actually. My sister was really active. Yeah, she was pretty hyper, but I was very,

you know, that's one thing, Thio. They're open cases where appearance could be extroverts and kids are introverts, or vice versa. And activists is an active in appearance. Don't actually know how to deal with it because they've never experienced

it. Yeah, it's really I know it's I've heard that it's really difficult, like they're like, 74 personality types. I don't really remember them, but that's at least one way of splitting them up. And, yeah, there are certain personality types that are always hard to be parent for, But then there are a lot of just mismatches where if your kid is very different personality type, like if you like. I know people who are extroverts and their Children or not. And it is just hard for both of them. Like where they're just like come on, Like, talk on Like my kids.

I give them a lot of freedom and I mean not to tell my story. My kids, I give him a lot of freedom, and I feel like that has helped them become it. Extroverts. My daughter, my older daughter was wouldn't talk to anyone when she was two. But now, before she walks up to every stranger on the street, was like, What's your name? I'm gonna put your dog. What are you doing? That s o we getting places can take a long time because there are a lot of questions.

You know, it's funny. We were in the park yesterday, and this one Dad is pulling his kid on their arms like, let's go early and clearly upset. And I'm looking like, Well, you know, I've been there, but at the same time, whenever your latest never the kid's fold until maybe they're like 12. But until then, it's like always the parentsfault not planning sufficiently for not doing other things, but you just You just can't help it like you're late. You're late. You know, I gotta take it out on somebody and there's this kid next

to you. But yeah, it's like our bedtime, like once or twice a week right now is I'm like, All right, let's get ready for bed and that where I'm late and that means they're tired. And then they start not going, not cooperating and falling apart Way put him in bed in separate rooms. Because when we put them to bed in the same room, that step told 9 30 or 10 talking and just be annoying to us so and then we just move one back into the same room at after, like, affair. They both stop napping a few weeks ago. So now they go to bed very quickly and very easily at, like, seven. Their sleep by 7 10

Yeah, What's happened to us lately, too? We're still trying to put my daughter to the older one to sleep during naps and whatever, but most of the time we know do this quiet time where she can go to her room and play there for an hour. Yeah,

and my older daughter actually takes naps. My younger daughter just has hasn't for, like, three weeks now for weeks now, just straight. So my three year old, she just turned three. Not for a minute. You actually, these days I actually d'oh, pull out all the work. I have to go home earlier to get dinner ready for them and eat dinner with them so that I will work from 7 to 8 30 I don't like working the evenings that much. I'm not very good at it.

I don't like working in general. It's hard time consuming. I like

working, uh, working on things like working on. I don't know if that makes sense, but I'm very motivated to do some work and very motivated other work.

So far, most people, people that I've interviewed a typeface and, you know, we all love working on something that's interesting. And that was I think that's a big challenge for everyone because you have kids that are awesome and you want to spend time with the same time you have work. We just hopefully something you actually also want to do. And this is two conflicting priorities. So how do you juggle between the two?

Well, uh, part of it. I don't know. How do I juggle between two? I have a schedule. I don't know. I go home for dinner almost every night. Uh, except, like when I'm traveling on, uh, I mean, I don't have that active social life, so I felt like I go out for drinks and dinner with friends during the week, and then on weekends, I pretty much block off time for exercise and kids and I you know,

I incorporate them into my social activities, so just dragged them along places or do whatever I want to do with them as long as it matches up. Uh, and, uh, yeah, I mean it during. And then in the mornings, I get them ready for school. They come into my wake me up every morning, there, my alarm on dhe. Then we get ready together and really actually make dinner while they're eating breakfast. Drink coffee. And I prepped the dinner so I can come home and have dinner. Make it in 10 minutes when I get home at night.

My wife just joined This is Brooke Group off working moms. And that's number one complaint of like, Well, if I just picked my kid from school five or six drove them home, and now we have an hour to do everything, and I'm still in the process of making dinner. What do you D'oh! And basically everybody is stuck in this loop.

Yeah, it is always a struggle. I mean, I get home. I'm always easier from you. Don't you have to work toe doing extra 15 minutes of work at the end of my day than it is to get in 15 minutes earlier. So I, uh I'm constantly, like running out of the office on to get home in time to take over from our nanny. Uh, so we have. Yeah, we worked with have preschool in preschool three days a week. We have a part time nanny. Nanny

Mammy. Is it the same school? Three year old and free?

Yeah. They're both in the same preschool. They're actually. It's like a preschool where they they're two classes are combined, like, I don't know, 30 40% of the day. And then they split up the age groups.

I'm curious with tech school Montazeri. Uh,

that's a different Italian name. I forget the It's not Montessori. It's, uh, digiorno. It's not DiGiorno, but it sounds like the journal. It's Reggiano Parmesan. Something like it sounds more like Reggie. Oh, I think

I should check with my wife because the way it works for us, she did all the research and all the schools in the area, like 2030 of them. And then I only went to check the top five and then we it kind of picked the school.

But sounds like your wife's doing most emotional labor and your family, and you are coasting and doing the work of the active work but not actually planning.

That's true. That's probably sure I love active work, and I love going outside and playing in the rain. We were just driving this morning into school, and my daughter was telling me how she likes rain and clouds. I think that's because I mentioned that I like rain and clouds and she's like, Well, that's mine. Me, like I'm like, I think Mommy likes on change. He goes, No, I like raining clouds. Thank you. Okay. You okay? We're gonna go play at the school. Yeah, I don't know planning is hard and very time consuming.

Yeah, my my wife did it for, like, the first year or two, but now she works at least as much as I d'oh eso like she wasn't. Her job is very busy, so I have taken over a lot of things. I make the doctor's appointments. She's doing the dentist appointment this time, but we I arrange I hired our nanny did all the work on that.

How did that work out? How did you pick the right nanny?

Ah, well, last time around, it was a lot easier because we had full time work or near full time work. This time around, we had part time work. So it was a lot of just putting an ad out there on all the different places to put ads like, uh care dot com and urban sitter and Facebook groups in Seattle and then waiting for people who apply, uh, and part time work. They're all you're gonna get some kind of trade off typically, like somebody you know, they have something else going on, and so you have to. For us, it's It's a little like we're lucky because we can have backup. Danny. We're back up child care from our parents if we need to. Uh,

and if anything, you could probably worry. Go home and take over, you know, for I could do that

some days, but not for like, a week at a time. On, like, preschools are our were there in a genuine preschool. So it's not day care. So there, out of school for random, 32 week periods in the winter and write three times in the summer and once in the spring. And we can't do that or I don't want to take that time off. Uh, so, yeah, Then we talked to them on the phone, went through kind of our parenting style and asked them about their parenting style or their child care style. And then look for somebody with some experience and then call their references and est, um, try to hear, like, mostly just how they hang out with their kids and how they interacted with the person.

Because we had another pair for a while and Jen span probably 3 to 6 months picking the right person, and we picked who we thought was the right person, and then you know, three months into it, we realized there were a lot of mismatching characteristics and it wasn't actually working for us, so yeah, I mean, it seemed like a great idea before we got one. I think we realized what we need is like a very German type of person who is, like, super own time, because we're not always on time. So having, and some people do, Yeah, for kind of that reason, but yeah, it was hard to have somebody live in the house with you, so

Yeah, that's that would be a deal breaker. The Coke brothers had a German au pair. So, you know, you're a big fan. No, but I read some some story about them, and it sounded like it would be a scarring childhood, you know, might make you grow up to have some weird views on the world, but maybe maybe be wildly successful. Well, not all Germans hashtag not all Germans, 19 forties Germans.

It's getting in that every minute. You know, on the drive here actually realized how fortunate we had to work in tech that well, first call, you make a decent amount of money on dhe. You can afford it Bolsters of things, but I can't even imagine forgetting. Say, uh, minimum wage job and trying to have a kid because, like, think about it, You know, you go to work and your work is probably super constrained by somebody else is ours. And you drop off your child. But in a daycare, you don't see your child for the whole day, and then most of them when you make probably goes to the daycare.

Yeah, not more mean it's Yeah, I feel extraordinarily fortunate. And I try to empathize with people who are less fortunate, but I don't think I could actually like, I can't feel that I don't know what it feels like. I know would be extremely hard. Uh, yeah, but I I am disconnected from the world enough that I don't I can't actually tell you like I can feel how hard it would be. I mean, just having a child with two parents was our first child was very hard, like it was stressful and tiring. I couldn't imagine doing that. Yeah, with no flexibility around my hours or as a single parent. Yeah, it's I mean, it's don't be brutal.

So Do you think you've changed as a person in the last couple of years? Before you had a kid?

Yeah, I think I have changed some. I mean, shit changes a lot. 23 years. I mean, I'm a lot more. Uh, I'm a little less in the novelty, I guess. Uh, like, you know, five years ago I was like, I don't do something unique new novel and I've definitely lowered my expectations, at least on that where I'm like, I know I don't wantto travel thio a difficult place with my kids.

It's just it's just like taking care of kids. But what twice the work of three times the work. And, uh, I don't know. In some ways I'm more disciplined right now. At least I don't know if that's because kids or just because hit that boring, middle aged like line that I've seen so many other people hit where they start doing marathons and running a lot, I don't know exercising before, like, last chance to get in shape before you get old. But I'm there on DDE I think I've become a little more of ah softie, I guess You know, like I like I like I maybe not a softie, but I definitely like when I hear tragic stories about people with kids. It hits hits home more than it used to. That's I mean, that's just empathizing with people like yourself, though I empathize with people like myself. So people with kids now instead of

well, it helps because now you can understand more of the world and totally relate to kind of functions. Yeah, I guess I spent

more time thinking about, like, what would what it would be like, You know, in almost any other time, period, almost any other. Like any time, period or country on earth where I would have not had, like, a big chunk of adulthood with no Children on, I would have, you know, I would have gone straight from childhood to early adulthood and then having kids myself

and you would have been dead by now. Early days? I don't think so. No, no, If you either dies

a baby, at least like in the pre farming days or you you could live to 85 that was pretty normal. Like a lot. People of old 35 is not a good age to die. You would. That was just the end. It was the mean, not medium. Yeah. Uh, so, yeah, I think I'm Maur empathetic to tragedy. More sympathetic to tragedy.

That makes sense. I've noticed that about myself, too. Well, what's, uh, get off the tragic note for a while, but, I mean, start ups. You know, I guess you've only known life as a dead while being in a start up before then when you had a quote unquote real job, You are not a dead yet.

Yes, I had a real job ages ago, and it was different industry, and I was young, and I didn't like it, but yes, I've known. I guess I would say I've known only no life with Children as CEO of a tech company, like, uh, you know, we're not like I'm not out fundraising. I'm not out. So there are There are some things that I'm not doing that would be really hard with with little kids.

But are you not doing it because you have kids or you just you're not doing it. So

it's No, my company's not about stage, so but yeah, I mean, we're not yet. We're not fundraising. We're not. We're moderate. Growth, profitable tech company. So we're not like, uh

judging by this view, you're pretty profitable. Growing type company. I like it. It's not about place to come to. Yeah,

we definitely thought through our office and wanted to be a place where people wanted to come into work,

actually, just distracted by looking there. Now,

he spends a lot of time looking out the window and trying to talk to people. But I think people would prefer I contact

you do these days anyway, as the CEO of moderately growing tech company. Uh, well, that's a good

question. I am learning to be a getting better, becoming a manager of managers. Ah, I'm getting better at These are all things, the things I'm working on, getting better, becoming a manager of managers. I'm getting better at talking about vision and making sure everyone on the team understands the most important things to be working on right now on. Then I try to meet with I try to understand what's going on throughout the company. So I meet with people like I did do that a variety of ways track probably 80 metrics on any given month. I don't know. I don't compile them, but I I talk with people about them on. Then I meet with every one of the company off, at least for 1/2 hour to an hour once every three months. So we have about three people rotate through every one of the company on a regular basis.

Just understand where there what's going on. Because when we hire new people, I don't know what that experience is like. And, uh and then, well, I don't know what that experience is like, and it's important for me to know how things were going and what it feels like to start here because that I know what it's been like to be here for a long time

On then, on top

of that, uh, try toe, help my team try to get things out of the way so they could do their work, including telling them not to do or suggesting that they not do low priority work or things that maybe are as important but feel like, you know, that will move. Things like this is important because it would grow our you know, revenue by 3% and it's like. Yeah, like, let's focus on the things that will sustainably do that. Not like not the one thing the one offs Let's do. Let's do the thing that will grow by 3% every month for the next year.

So do you think being a dad help you to become a better manager? And vice versa? Bina manager helped you deal with kids better. Maybe I

don't know that. It's really like a lot of people really like saying, Yeah, I'm a way better and more efficient or stuff like that and I'm maybe slightly more efficient or but I wouldn't say I'm like wildly more. I think I am currently more efficient just because more disciplined right now. But I don't think that's because I'm a dad. Uh, I think that being a manager of adults who are good at their job is different than being a manager of being a dad. Children are not good at their job, you know. They're there in their distractible, and, uh, they engage in power struggles and their tedious When they're very little, they cry a lot. They need diapers change. There's a lot of manual effort,

so, uh, I know I was supposed to have some grand listen, but I don't I mean, on the on the margins, Yes, I'm good at identifying the root of the problem with my kids. Like, I think that this is a systemic problem. This kid is not crying or screaming or hitting because I don't need to address the hitting. I need to get them to bed earlier So they get enough sleep Or do you know I need to address the hitting and I need to, like, work on it every day for three weeks because Because you can't you know, you can't change a habit without, like, in a day or by doing something haphazardly. But so I don't know if that's like, I guess that's a management lesson that I practiced work. But

perhaps you well, perhaps you don't notice that maybe you're just fortunate to have a really good team was in this medium article once compared a toddler to a startup CEO on a 10 point scale, basically hit every 10 points, a za dad reading that I thought it was really hilarious, because I feel like I guess I guess you're just really lucky to have just a very normal team because there's something really crazy teams out there where I feel like having experienced with the toddler helps ridiculously, because you just know to kind of take step back and take a breather and just no, let it go. Yeah, I feel like that's a

That's a weird I feel like if you think that your team is has toddlers on it that you're maybe doing like, maybe you should think about why you have that team And, you know, if you if that's I guess you know there's the model of I have enough free time that I can that I can make this person who acts like a toddler but is a high performer in other ways work get their work done. But that that talk like that toddler mentality sucks energy from everyone else, too. It's not like it's not like it's just you who's doing extra work to maintain the toddler like they're a bunch of other people around that person. I mean, I Maybe I've heard that. I think I saw that medium article. I don't know. Maybe it definitely didn't resonate with me. Uh, but wait, it was me. That's the toddler. The CEO is the toddler. Uh, you don't know Trying to think of my team when I'm sure my team Somebody might sometimes say I'm a toddler, but

But I think you build your team around you, right? So the best qualities about you probably got amplified. And if you're very common, half like meticulous person, then that's what the team is going to become and you're probably gonna have with hiring tellers. Yeah, I think

that's true. Although way all hire people who we think will be a fit and then they're not, Uh, that is inevitable. In the start of world, we're in the tech world. Or I guess, in the world, uh, yeah, toddler CEOs, man, I know that exists. I have That is my, like, actually talking or my wife was talking with her friend lawyer a Google on. She was,

uh she was describing toddler CEOs and how they acquired a company on she's in charge of working with them and she was My take on that is that it's sort of like it's tech has a you know, we know this text has a real sexism problem, and it is really evident in toddler CEOs and CEOs. She was describing this company. And like this, the CTO is not good. You know, it's not a manager and is like a tech brilliant tech person and like this company has, ah, woman. They call like that, do everything person. And she actually does everything. But she gets paid 1/4 of what the CTO in the CEO CEO makes on. They don't enviro Thio events because she's doing work on. She actually really makes the company operate,

and it's one thing to like that. Sexism like that is undoubtedly sexism. But if you think about that, like a C t. O, that is really crummy at their job, which is a lot of CEOs or CEO. And like I'm picking on CEOs, CEOs are worse than plenty of CEOs who are like, I'm brilliant and they just run around breaking things. Ah, you know, way Maybe I've grown from that. I'd like to think that I've grown from at least sometimes breaking things to breaking things less often and being less of a disruptive force. But you think about what a person who wasn't a white male in that role would like. How they'd be perceived.

And it is, Uh, that's where I really like. That's right, like the sexism of our industry really clicks. And because I see people just hate, they have reserved an incredible amount of hate for mediocre women and minorities. And and white men have to be pretty crappy like they can't be just mediocre white men. People like nobody's,

you know, whatever. That's a style. But, like just But as a woman, you have to be exceptional. But as

a woman, you have to get you have to be an A minus, at least. And even then, people like I got some complaints. Where is like a C plus dude as a CEO is like, people are like, Yeah, it's just that he made it work right around you up

they raised enough money for long enough that eventually they didn't succeed the bidding dyke, anything you're

just yeah, or even they didn't succeed. In spite of the CEO happens plenty of success in spite of I mean, you look at most tech companies and they they have a few things that are definitely why they worked, and then a bunch of things that are the myth of why they worked also, you know, like Google hired a whole bunch of Ph. D's for a long time until they were like that was a bad idea Or, you know, like you know, like they were like, we do everything ourselves until like,

Well, that's a That's a human nature to build correlations where none exists because it helps you sleep at night.

Yeah, and I guess you know, it's hard. It's easy for me to await my arms and be like That's not really what cause success. But, you know, it is heart also to tease out what really did cause success.

So that's it. I'm actually interested now that you have two girls. Are you going to teach them something different or something specific? Thio navigate this life as they grow older, knowing what you know about the world, especially as the CEO, especially gonna having seen the business side of world quite deeply.

Uh, that's a good question. I don't know. I kind of think, uh, I tend to think that women navigating sexism is something that women have to do. But it's not something that if they do it better there, they will be able to avoid sexism. So, uh, I mean, I think I raised my girls Sort of like a like I'd raise a boy like they're they're girls and they have You know, they definitely identify that way, but, uh, I want to raise them to be self confident. And,

you know, I think about too. And self confidence means, like, comfortable in their own skin and not looking for approval from others and not seek. And, you know, when people are assholes identifying that putting words to it and then saying I don't want to hang out with you or play with you or whatever but also, like, you know, realizing that there are assholes that you have to you have to deal with in life. I hope your podcast is rated PG

13 Now is well, actually assholes aside and they certainly exist. And maybe put sexism aside, Thio. I'm watching toddlers actually in school. I'm very curious because you can see there are some people who inherently Bossier like they'll go and take things right. Just walk over and grab things and walk away. And there are other kids who just patiently wait and take their turn and be nice and polite and you see them as kids. And then you see the same happening in the workplace and everywhere around you. Right then, very often, like bossy people grab things they actually damaging to the people around them. But they perceive a successful because they're just, you know, overpower. Do you think there's any any way you can help kids and not just girls? Try. Just. Kids can grow to be able to work in this.

I have something I think about A lot is just how, like, how bizarre our world is and, you know, like we weren't made to sit in chairs all day long. It's like a popular CrossFit thing, but, you know, it's like it's true. And not only that we weren't made to read like we didn't You know, there was no evolutionary process like we happen to be able to read, but like spending our whole day reading is just crazy, like but wait, that's the story, your question. But your question was, uh,

well, I mean, I think a lot of people excuse the behavior of their own Children, and particularly if it, like, fits into some gender mold like like, just seriously this weekend, somebody I was hanging out with a parent of a three or two year old boy and I pulled out some tools to move up this heat on my kids balance bike. And their dad was like, Oh, tools. You love tools. And the kid was like, looked at the tools and he went back to whatever he was doing. My kids, you know,

don't particularly love tools. They're not obsessed with them, But they definitely are, like, you know, like like, you know, they're like tools, whatever sure or, like, you know, like and they're not obsessed with fire trucks. But like, you see a fire truck like that on DSO, I tend to think that I I guess what I'm getting at is my My thesis is that the difference between genders is largely cultural and is less, uh less than we think it is in terms of like love of trucks and tools and preconceived like skills and abilities on,

like in this case, it was easy for me to be like Ah ha, but my kids actually came over like both of them were like, I want to hold it like I want to hold the screwdriver. How can I want to do this? I want, you know, like and I was like, Well, you can hold this side, but you're not gonna be able to do this yourself. Ah, so on. And the father of that other child was not like, you know, He he ended that know, at the end of that hour, he was like, My kid loves tools

such a He's such a boy. He just loves tools. And

I was like, he didn't even look at that like he looked at them for, like, one second, uh, and so that, like, it is very easy to carry around perceptions. And so I think a lot of parents are like, Well, he's a boy. That's what grabs things and like, that's sort of like saying I try not to. I'm gonna try it out to eat cupcakes this week. I'm gonna try not to try to exercise in my case on, you know, like,

well, exercise better because I try, I I am going to try to exercise. I am going to exercise this week. I'm not gonna try to exercise, because when I try to exercise I I put it off and put it off and put it off, and then I don't do it. Whereas when I am going to exercise, I, uh, like I put it off. But, like, last night at nine o'clock, I went ran three miles. I don't like running at night,

so I'm not gonna do that against you. No, I'm doing 5 to 10. Come on. All right, maybe give me Give me a few more weeks. I'm still getting up to it.

But you know, this question of, like, how do you teach your kids to navigate? The world is also in my mind Because and part of this while you're the CEO successful toy company, it's part of it is like, what do you get them excited about that they're gonna grow up and, like, want to keep living?

Oh, yeah, I think. Well, I mean, I don't know if you're getting out. Should I teach him a code or something? I don't think I tend to think that, uh, teaching kids how to understand the world is really important in teaching them how to code is especially, You know, I I don't know. Maybe one of their 12. I'll put him in computer camp or something, but, uh, at this age it is like, get dirty. Don't be stressed like level of stress lifestyle for a child because it's really easy for kids. Toe. My kids have at least like 1/2 hour stress

every day around, like you need to get out of house, get dressed

or you got a bad get your pajamas on. Come on. Uh, but generally, you know, just living that that lifestyle where they get to experience the world and get bored and have to figure out, entertain themselves and, uh, figure things out on their own. And I also, like, learn how to socially, like interact with each other. Uh, but yeah, I mean, I tend to think that the best my my recollection,

uh, like something really stuck out for me in high school was watching people in math not understand things. And then, like the moment you start memorizing math formulas or you start just saying Okay, I know the formula right under. I know that I know how to get the answer like I feel like you. You've just put an expiration date on your ability to grow in math or computer science or physics or whatever. Like you have basically a year. And then the memorization will end and you will just you will just collapse and you'll be like, I don't get it anymore And I don't even know howto start getting it because I just start memorizing like a year ago, so figuring out So we're at this age, like for little kids. I feel like trying to understand things, but also like not being pressured in understanding. And it's definitely like I don't want to be that dad who is like pushing their kids and the kids like I don't wanna be pushed and my kids don't wanna be pushed They definitely let me No,

like, Do you think you encourage them to be CEOs of their companies Or, you know, they are allowed to be artists? No, no, no. CEOs? Well, no. I

just think that's like, you know, everyone's working to be a leader and, you know, be president. That's stupid rate. Like I want my kids to be able to function in society and, like, you know, uh, understand how society works and understand how the world works and you know, be able to at least until you know, the singularity be able to make enough money to feed themselves or, you know, and have that responsibility. But I don't I don't think that teaching girls to be coders or CEOs is productive, just like it's not productive for boys.

I think they should do what being artist would probably be hard for me just cause I'd be like, you're not gonna It's like doing anything that is Ah, really low chance of success. You're gonna spend a lot of your time. Not like not succeeding.

Really funny, right? If you listen to yourself, you just brought up the case of Dad saying his boys into tools where it wasn't the case. And you're very open Thio teaching kids to grow up in a society you get at the same time. They're starting exclusions where you like, but maybe just not this one playing. We're like this realm s so you're still subjected to the same bias. You're trying to avoid it.

I think the world is very open, but I'm not. I am subject to the bias of like I want. I have this belief that in a capitalist, highly capital of society. Ah, being able to make enough money to afford necessities and a little bit more is a component of happiness is a way to increase happiness. You know, there's a lot of evidence study up to a certain level, like after a certain level of making money. You're not particularly happier, but up to that level, the money really does add into happiness like lower stress, right? So I guess for me it's It's more like being able to function the world and, like, you know, if you wantto if you want to do ahhh Iris job like be a violin player in a New York orchestra, or like a high risk in terms of like there are only like three people who do it right or four people who do it. So you're it's super competitive, and the odds are you're just

and there isn't a good backup right that it's not like it's not like being like

working at a tech company or being a startup founder where you're like, well, backup is I'll get a job that is in tech, and I just got some experience from it, right, like ah so I don't know. I just tend to Being an artist would be fine, I guess. But it probably hard for me just because it would be, I don't know. I don't know many paths. I don't I don't know many artists,

so I don't see that route to success were successful, that they'll just never have to work a day in their life.

I feel like putting giving your kids enough money to work forever were to live forever. Is just is horrible for kids.

There's this guy named Donald that worked out fairly fine.

There are a lot of people who, like I talked my wife and I talked Thio tax person or like a financial planner. And, you know, she was like, Well, do you want to make this trust for your Children and avoids taxes? And I guess I realized I didn't. I knew that death the inheritance tax was like was high. But like if you are subject if you're a state of subject of inheritance tax or if you're even avoiding it through like tricks, you were setting your kid up for wild Wilde quote unquote success, I suppose. But like a lot of wandering in their twenties because they have enough money they like no job will satisfy them. They only do. A job is a hobby. Like, you know,

if you can leaving your kid if I feel like this is my personal taste. But I really think you could do a lot with your money to make the world a better place to shape it into something. Even if you're like, I think people should go to private school in your Betsy DeVos. That's great. You're helping someone, uh, leaving your kids $10 million a kid. $10 million is stupid. Like that kid doesn't need that. It doesn't. It was not gonna make them happy. It's not gonna help them do anything besides potentially never like, Well, it'll help them never be poor and never experienced What you know, like,

never understand a lot of how people live. It will help them. You know, flip a coin is to whether they'll be successful or just like a slouch. I think I think

the value itself might be different in $10 million but I agree, right? But you certainly want to find a way to encourage your kids to be proactive about their life. But that's that you've seen it, but there's a show in out of Vancouver. Don't know the name, but it's by this group of kids. That's a Chinese name of food. I basically kids who have inheritance from the appearance, and, you know, they never have to work a day in their life. And it's amazing because they're like driving Lamborghinis and drinking $50,000 bottles of wine ridiculousness for dinner. They actually made it into a show, and the show is super popular in mainland China. People hate them, but they continued to watch them and trash them and say, How dare you do all the stupid, expensive things and they keep watching them. And these girls are just getting richer every day off the people who are watching them, who are poor and can't stand this grotesque waste of money

about here. Well, it's called like real. Housewives are a lot of a lot of shows that rich people being rich where they make money from being rich order like uh, yeah, I just That's not for me. So if I have the means, it is hard. I mean, it's hard to be like I don't want my kids to have anything, because what if they do wanna be an artist? But I kind of think your kids should have little enough that they won their 23 or whatever they're like. Dude, this is not a comfortable lifestyle. I do not. This is not going to be fun. And they're not just like,

Well, maybe I'll do something exciting. They're like, No, I just like, I feel like just having to do something, Get it, like, get a job when you're 23. Helps you figure out what you're actually gonna love and be good at, and and sometimes you might love and be good at, Like you might find satisfaction in the job that isn't glamorous or isn't high paid. But if you have a lot of money, you're never gonna you're not gonna you're not gonna find satisfaction. You're gonna find, like, short term impulsive fun. But you're not gonna stick with something that will ultimately leave the satisfaction and help you. You know,

I guess that satisfaction is what ultimately drive the kids to have a happy life, because, yeah, I mean, there's there's

so many different versions of happier fund, right? Like there's satisfaction. There's short term, like dopamine, happy and fun like I want to use Facebook and Twitter right now. Kind of fun, uh, there and being able to like I think the short term fun is really easy to find in our society, and it's really hard to finds satisfaction.

Yeah, I love this. I mean, this is great conversation about how Thio prepare your kids for adulthood wide ranging conversation. That it is. But if you don't start thinking about it when your kids are four or five, when is a good time to start thinking about because when when they're 18 or 20 years too late?

Yeah, I feel like you kind of set him by, like the time there's six or seven years. You start to lose your chance toe like they're at school and they don't really care about what you think anymore. You still are giving some guidance, but, uh, yeah, you're doing a lot.

That's what I've heard from people that from like 0 to 5 is the best time because there's still one hanging out with you. They still listen to you, and they're learning from you after that? Yeah, they kind of still little little dolls, but they're on their own.

Not my kids. My kids want to go on vacations with me when they're adults. They told me they want to live in our house

learning from the millennials. Why get a house if you could just live with your dad works, but take yourself back quickly to the beginning where they're like little babies. Would you give what advice would you give Thio new and expecting parents? Do you prepare themselves for that time and get through the struggle of not being able to sleep and still having to do all this other things? Boy,

I have a couple things. One is that formula is not is, uh how can I say this without offending a lot of people? Formulas is feminist. I believe we did. We did not use formula, but it is, uh, when you don't use formula, it is hard to actually share the burden of not sleeping. And and it is it is brutal as a woman to have a newborn. It is brutal to live in a house with a newborn also, but, uh, no matter who you are, but if you are breastfeeding exclusively, huh?

If a woman is and then I guess my next piece of advice is if your wife, if you're a man and your wife is breastfeeding exclusively, you should do everything else like you should. Actually, and I resisted this some. So I'm not a hero. But you should get out of bed and take the baby and change the diaper and put it back to sleep. Uh, and you should take four weeks off, at least up front there, uh, another in other countries. You just other first world countries like you don't really like Four weeks is absurd, and you don't have that choice. But in America you have to, like, consciously take four weeks off.

You know, it's actually weird because in America, prosperous country you take the least time off because in other places, like I grew up in Russia. So when I was a baby, I was back in Russia and my mom had, like, two years off from work to just take care of me. My dad, not so much, but still, you know, in America it's like you expected to Papa, baby and then go back to work the next day, which is ridiculous and to your breast feeding point because it was the same thing with us. And it got a lot harder with the second child because, like,

you know, I'm not supposed to be a week in the morning to take care of the toddler, right? So it's a lot harder to wake up and do all the papers at night, but it does help to get a grandparent. My wife's mom came over to help us for, like, a whole months get her over because she basically took on the whole night time Davor change routine and we're super helpful. I don't think it would have been able to just be away. Could do anything if if not for

that, Yeah, I guess that I mean, that's another thing that is, I'm spoiled. But if you can have, if you can afford a night nanny or night doula as they call them or you have a parent or a friend or whatever who helps out that is extremely fortunate. You should do it because it's the way that we, you know, our nuclear families is is nuts like that, you know, expect like two people, someone who just gave birth and her husband or wife to, like take care of a newborn, which is a lot of work all day long. Every day is kind of a new and novel thing, right?

Like that. There's no way that we did that when we were living in small societies. Yes. So I don't know those air three pieces of ice. And then, uh, we gotta swing. I would like, I don't know, doctors. I guess this is not thistles, not legal or medical advice. But, uh, are your child can sleep in a swing for a long time, and you should Oh,

and also that a couple things the swing or the car seats are good places for Children to sleep. If you're me and you're my child on, it's my treat. Children, please. You know, Google that or ask your doctor. Ah, and, uh, because, uh, I think they're not supposed to do that. Uh, and yeah, I would definitely like letting your child sleep flat.

Our child sleep flat was very hard for Children. Don't Newborns don't like to sleep flat on their back? What do you know? But you also don't want. You could have said so. I don't want to put the mother friend so, uh, you know, compromise. Put them in something that that puts them at an angle and makes their legs bunch up a little bit.

Yes, I know you can also just get a couple towels and make a pillow like a lo t of the neck arch, insane for the legs. Yet then they feel kind of cradled. In fact, you could just, like, take pills and kind of shove it on the side, too. Islam's they feel cradle close that sits that Since territory, that's what you have. A baby came for over them, you know, they're just

watching them. Every good do you want? Uh and then wait. There was one more of the double swaddle I thought was very useful. You can you can you two bit, but it lets their legs stick out, but not their hands. So you could do it without hurting their hips for over a long period of time. Because I know after, like, eight weeks, you're not supposed to swallow babies with their legs and 12 weeks because can give them hip dysplasia. And that actually does happen, but the double swaddle is a way to keep their hands down. But

and double Sato's just to know.

It's a style of swaddle that lets there that puts their hands down, box their hands at their sides, but their legs are sticking out of the bottom.

So Google that we just used to swaddle blankets basically twice around the upper body and that is

the same trick. Yeah, knows one like you lay it out, you make a triangle, you lay it out, you flip it over. I can't remember. It's still in you. You take it through their legs, and so it's very effective. That's my random advice. I don't know what else. Uh, they figure out a TV show that is not high. You know, that is not very, uh, intellectually challenging. And get headphones and put on your phone watching tonight.

How do you arrest his apparent? You like what? Your rest.

Well, I know now these days really easy. I rest after 7 p.m. I get a lot of time off on my wife, and I take turns like, you know, I'll let her sleep in or I'll sleep in. I tend to think that sleeping in is not a good way to get rest because you should just go to bed earlier. But it's hard to get about. Really

What? You guess that's having Annie. So I guess once in a while you can actually go out and

I'm spoiled. We have grand parents who live here, too. So they come and take care of the kids. Yeah, but I do know people you know, with from fairly young age again, I don't know. This is all like this is like, you know, primo advice. I feel embarrassed, like giving advice for other people who are living. Ah, fantastic lifestyle. But you can if you have friends who have Children just like you, which is some people.

D'oh! You can make friends like that in Seattle. It's pretty easy with, like, Peps groups on you can swap like people wanna like. We'll take care of your child. It's easy to take care of. It's not twice the work to take care of two Children or even if it is, you still have the same number of hours on. Then the hours are done and then you're done taking care of them on. So, yeah, you can swap and have send your kids over someone's house for une evening and then

you live in a really hippie neighborhood.

My friends? Yeah. It's more friends. Yeah, actually, you're letting the suburbs, don't you? That doesn't work in the suburbs, right? No,

to be determined way. Have a couple friends that, like we go on play dates with, But I don't think we've swapped kids yet.

Well, Americans are very worried about their Children being safe and stuff, but your kids will be fine. Like, just drop him off the cry on. Then they'll stop crying. And then the next time you drop me off, they won't cry as long. It's just like preschool or Dick here,

I gotta say with the second kid. Yeah, like, first get everything was just like, Oh, she's going gotta, like, go save her. Right. But the 2nd 1 you like, I just need a minute. I'm gonna sit here. I know you're crying, but I just can't get

there yet. That is very healthy. I think it's very good for Children that you spend a minute or two other crying and then come and get them. I think that, like, I actually think that, like, builds a lot of, you know, uh, I don't know, some wacky theories that that that that is, like, build resilience down the road, like people don't I don't, like, make a noise and they jump get me,

like, instantly. Uh, and I guess I'm also a fan of crying out. So you all right? Yeah. Like not not like torture. Cried out Where you going? Like, torture the baby every few minutes and like,

show them your face and say I'm here. Look at me. It's okay. Stop crying. And now I'm gonna leave you again.

Like you should just let him cry until they stop crying or vomit and then clean him up, keep him crying and, you know, whatever. Like that's extreme. Our kid did not vomit. I'm just saying, Like, I know somebody who's like Mike and vomited. It's like, Yeah, well, you know, huh? Because they sure beats having to go in 10 times a day for the next two years. That said, there's nothing perfect. I mean, my kids wake up in the night. Still,

if only those away to a B testers. Well, I think It's been great. I mean, I love all the stories and kind of thoughts on how kids could grow. I think it's very valuable for people, especially were just expecting kids to hear. You know, what was gonna come and what they need to think through gets

better. That's what you should know. After the first week, it gets better. It'll take a few months

for someone. The tumblers are awesome, like a couple of years into it. It's just so much fun.

Yeah, and some people have newborns. I don't I don't I love my newborn, but I was not happy kind of way or satisfied. There's nothing happy or satisfying about it for me. Really? Just those cute little ice looking at you, you know, saying thank you. They didn't say that. They were just when they were one. It was a lot more fun for me. Yeah, right. Bring it into work today, huh? Is intend to bring into work.

Showed her? No, I don't know. They are very curious about work and what we do. Well, my wife and I do.

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