support for this podcast comes from BB NT. Whether you're landing that big break or just landing on your own two feet, no matter if you're moving in, moving out, moving on or moving up if you're all in your own or owning it all at BB and T always see is you and all the ways we can help visit BBT dot coms Last checking to learn more BB and T now truest. Hi, I'm Kara Swisher, editor at large of Recode. You may know me as someone who has done more than 300 of these friggin podcast is is our three hundreds podcasts here at Rico Decode. But in my spare time, I talk tech and you're listening to Rico decode from the Box Media Podcast Network to celebrate this August event. Today in the Red Shirt, we have two returning fan favorites my older son Louis Swisher and Silicon Valley editor of the Verge Casey Newton. Both my Children. Now they're not. They appeared together a bunch of times on my own podcast, too embarrassed to ask Lauren Good.

And today we're gonna talk about tech trends, social media and what the young people's are using these days, Which would be Casey Lou. Ian Casey. Welcome to the show. Nice

to be here. And I just wanted to congratulate you. Care on a huge year for Rico, you know, having Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk and me and Louis all in one year. What

if you'd hear you? Yeah, I really

were kind of the top

tier E u r I know you actually are. Come here, actually is pretty good. Funny to see you all in hell aren't discussing things. Um, we'll talk about him, too. We'll talk about it. There's a lot of things we have to talk about. And Louis made that plea to me that he doesn't want to do what the young people's air are thinking kind of thing because he doesn't represent all the correct.

Is that correct? I mean, you just asked me about it before, and I feel like I can talk about other things, too.

Okay. Okay. Cause you're growing is a man. Okay, but so Casey will handle the juvenile teenage

Could be our resident pressure president that way.

So we have a lot of stuff to go over. I do have to stop with the big story this year, which is Facebook and the massive Facebook. And I just love to get both of your insights on what's going on. I know, Lou, you don't use Facebook, but use Instagram Onda refuse whats app or whatever. But there's a whole lot of mess around Facebook. So Casey thoughts you have. You have an amazing name, your name, your newsletter,

which, well, thank you. So I write a daily newsletter about social networks and democracy. It's called the Interface. You can find it at the verge dot com slash interface. And in the newsletter, which I send out every day of the week, we sort of go over what happened with these big social networks, particularly as it relates to what governments are doing about them is they're trying to understand them and and maybe eventually regulate them. But you know, to your point, Facebook has had a really, really tough year. And when I talk to folks there, you know these days there's kind of a sense of, um,

I think, some real worrying about what is coming down the pike for them. I think they realize they've lost ah, lot of trust with their users and they are trying to think how they're gonna wing about. Yeah, absolutely.

Do they have any sense of responsibility?

Yes, I think they do. I think they also feel unfairly targeted victims feel like their scapegoats on. I think one problem is that Facebook is so big and it's so consequential. And it has so many effects on so many different things that

when you're talking about face, we have to make sure both people are talking about the same thing, right? Facebook might be responsible for one thing, and it actually might not

be responsible for something else. But really kind of nailing that down is difficult because it's such an enormous company.

I'm interest in their victimization. It's exhausting to me like it was a different response of the Google people versus the Facebook people just recently, and I call them docile. They're just docile cult, its color members. Well,

here's something I want to talk to you about because I actually disagreed with one of your columns. Read it too, and I wanted to talk about it. So you're out. Yeah, I know. This is last appearance on the podcast. So, um, the most recent Facebook scandal that your listeners have probably heard of is what I been calling the definer scandal because they hired a public relations firm to target George Soros in ways than a lot of critics, among others, in ways that a lot of people, yeah, target critics in ways that some people have said. We're really anti Semitic and you know And this led to many, you know, angry op EDS and something that people said in the wake of that was,

You know, let's really focus on Cheryl Sandberg's rule here on You know, people have written many times about Mark Zuckerberg's role in this, but Cheryl Sandberg sort of runs the policy and communications shop. And so some people have said, you know, it's time for her to really get out in front of this and explain herself

and you were to

call him in, which he said, uh, released. The way I read, it was like people need to start focusing on Shell,

Sandberg said. She was much to blame, and I said it three times, actually did it three times with people. I can't say she's sorry enough. I don't know what my point was that Elliot trade who was actually in charge and most likely hire these. It's an Elliot special today that was going on. You know, L. A. You know, this was his doing and he came out like a loyal member that fell on his sword. I'm like he created the situation, that he should do that. So that was his engine. And then nobody's mentioned. Chris Cox,

who runs what is his usual, had a product head of product that nobody has mentioned shrapnels. Lovely. Nobody's mentioned the Cielo. This any of none of them get meant Dan Rose. All these people all had hands in this stuff. They just don't mention. I get that. She's sort of the high profile person, but he gets let off like he's some gig. Like I said, lost in the woods and they get no mention and she gets the words around her. You know, our she's she's a Cruella de Ville. That's all I'm saying. That's what I was talking

to me, right? And look, let's face it like a lot of the criticism that Sheryl Sandberg gets is really gendered, and I think we should be really sensitive to that, and I think It's really easy for people. Thio talk about her in a misogynist way at the same time I shot,

and also I felt

like the scrutiny that she's faced over this has lasted for about five minutes. And I just think that the chief operating officer of a big company take it. I also think we should talk about what role Chris

Cox may have. Landmark controls, everything. That's my only thing. I think. The other day she was compared to Jeff Skilling at Enron. Jessica was the CEO. Stop. Come on, like you make it like Mark should be compared to Jeff Skilling. But they don't do that like that. That's all I'm saying is that he owns all the companies. He controls. The stock. He's the CEO. He's the founder. He obviously called huge sway over all kinds of is for him to go.

I don't know. It's just that's how they do it. Like he's some geek who's lost. Luke, I want to turn to you. Do you care at all about Facebook whatsoever?

No. And I know none of this thing is the first I'm hearing

of any of Okay. All right. All right. So you don't care. It doesn't affect you. You're not using it anyway. Have you changed your mind on any aspect of Facebook?

You never know. I still don't

use it. Well, tell

us what? What is the main way That you stay in touch with people you care about? I know I said this before, like on Snapchat tax and stuff, But I've got a really recently just been like, reducing my snap. Try consumption like I spent a I went on a trip for Thanksgiving and I was without Internet for a week, and then I just realized over the ship like, I don't really need any of this like social media stuff. You get too caught up in it. And so I've been, like, reducing my snatch. And what? Because it's kind of stupid. Meaning, sending pictures of your face back and forth like, Sure, but like,

you were doing

that forever. I was doing that forever. Epiphany. Thank

you. Yeah, but I mean stupid. You think you'll stop using it or what do you mean? I stopped

using it like there's still, like, great ways. I think like the group shots and stuff. I like that a lot like how getting not all the data is saved and, like, it's not like I don't text feels more formal in the sense and sand that's more informal. So, um, I like that aspect. But, like does the whole Agnes the obsession with streaks and other stuff like that, like I'm not really? I I thought it was, like, stupid for a while, but I was still doing it. And now, like, you know,

So what were you not

I mean, just talking to people. That in person. Yeah, that old thing,

That whole thing we used to do that phone. Do you talk to people on the phone though,

right? I facetime a lot. But, um, I also like, you know, just talking people in person instead of just, like, sending fix your face back enforcement like, Oh, man, it's not true this person, but like nervous to talk to them in person. I think you just take It's better to take the first step. Just talk and established, like in person relationship.

You're the analog generation, your friends. It means in person.

No, no, we're definitely not. But I think there's I think we should have a push to initiate that.

What you're trying to say that What if they

don't really care?

They don't care. They're just using the Sam Dagher. Susan, it's up to the individual. I think you know, you use Facebook in your school, nobody's face. But you all use instagram still.

I mean, yeah, but I think instagram is a very like I've heard this a lot before. It's like a very perfected projected form of yourself that you want

other people to do. What did you call it to me? You had a great term. I

don't remember a museum. Oh, yeah, I guess it's a museum of, like images of what you wish you looked like or what you want people to think you look like. And I think that's in a way kind of silly. It's very silly, actually, kind of stupid. And, um, I think people just need to, like, stop caring about us because everybody has the same anxieties and stuff over that. And if we all realize that, like, that's kind of like what I realized that they were all like anxious is stuff like what our Snapchats look like,

what Aaron screams look like. And once you once. Everybody realizes that will realize that stupidity in it. Yeah, I think we'll probably get back to like what the apse were intended to be had their truest more I have. I have a hot take about social. Yeah, so in two dozen 19 I think 2019 is the return of the group chat. If you talk to people about the kind of social interactions they actually like, it's group tax. Whether it so my message. Whether it's on your Snapchat, talking to a small group of friends, you know exactly who's there. You can share your in jokes. You don't have to pose for people.

You could just be dumb. There's none of this pressure. If you use an app like Snapchat, all of those chats can just disappear. They're not gonna haunt you forever. Or maybe you just use my message and its end end encrypted, and you feel like you're probably gonna be fine. But I think increasingly more and more people are just going to want to group shed and not worry about the rest of everything that social media has

to offer. And what do you think,

Mr Swisher? I agree

with that? Yeah. And you use that just to talk with friends, right?

Just because I mean I honestly by myself. But I find myself talking on that phone a lot, but

not as much as out. No, that's true. Arthur Jail now has suddenly started text. He's texting, which is That was cool. That's cool. It's okay. He has friends.

Actually wanted me to. His group trap recently. Isn't really a fan of being in a group chat. I tried to leave on several occasions. Wait, Gladding. Where 13 year olds talking about in group chats right now? I don't know. I don't know. Most of the words are like, not words.

There's, like, a lot of emojis,

right? Oh, no, no. It's just like I don't even know. It's a bunch of slaying terms, slang terms that I don't even get. I'm starting to feel like the older generation out. I don't understand what these terms mean.

Was there emojis or no? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Not that many think he putting you back on the group

trying to leave, and I actually I mean,

they need you just give

you a 13 year old brother.

Yeah, I know, but you need to get in there and be cool, older brother. And then later I am the cooler brother. I know, but say some. Hey, dudes. Like something like

that. I think I think me trying to leave. I don't know. I think you should stay in the chapel only. Say, like, hey, kids don't do drugs. You know, just a lot of positive messages. Hey, do your homework. You know, that kind of thing? You just did. You finish your lab report? Yeah. Go 13

year olds. Thank you. Know they'll respect you for your authority. You

hear that? No dessert. Unless you've done your homework.

So get back to his group. Check things. So you think that this is how you and also with video or what? With video? Yeah.

I mean, so I do think that there is gonna be an opportunity like foreign instagram to create some of these, um, features that have. So they do have group shots, and I think you're going to see them lean Internet and doom or kinds of things for smaller groups of people. For whom, for your close friends are gonna be a big theme for them. next year. Snapchat is already doing this. I think is really successful for Why does Instagram need to do that?

Because I can copy and steal everything. That's kind

of like their hope on. Everybody recognizes that. So I think Instagram should stop trying to copy all these other companies because people can see that they're copying and they don't want to use like those messaging platform anything. Well, look, there's a strategic answer for that too, though, which is that on Facebook? It grew so big that eventually Facebook wasn't your friends. It was your parents. It was people you saw once at a wedding. It was your exit was your boss. And so people

stop posting cause you don't

want to perform for your entire phone book and his instagram gets more popular. It's inheriting that exact problem from Facebook. Instagram has to figure out a way intimate again. And I think you I think you're going to see it in stories

you see instead, the people with the group chats exactly. Just between

among each Exactly. But why can't people just use snapshot text for those pot for our two did to do

it? I can't stop It's rapacious march into everybody else's business by stealing ideas. Crazy. Exactly. Facebook's

terms paranoid, and they're smart to be paranoid because they know that every social app is a fad and this will be true forever. And so, in order to survive, they have to keep transforming time after time into what works right now. Because what works right now might not work in six months. And so that means copying. They're gonna copy because the alternative

is death. Right? But Louis, the copying is offensive to

you or the car or they could just the alternative could be disdained. Anyone

make

something of himself, doing what people want, like keeping instrument as what people think in stream of like we're doing what they came to, You know, that's like, I don't I don't go to Instagram, too. I actually found myself because when I was in Cuba, the Cuban government is block Snapchat. So when I finally got WiFi, I was able to talk to some my friends, but not over. Snapchat is blocked, And so I ended up actually having the use Instagram as a snapshot in a way. And, you know, doing all this stuff like texting and sending pictures and stuff.

And one of the text my friend sent me is it's so depressing that you have to use Instagram for this way s Oh, I don't think people are gonna want to use instagram that way. If that's what you know just to casual teams were talking about. I think Instagram should just stick to what it is. A shared photo sharing like photo

showing. You know, the founders left you and you met Kevin. I found a picture of you when you were nine or 10 years old meeting him. You were very thrilled to meet him at the time. Um and although you were happier, I have another picture of you meeting Evan Williams. And you were You were You were very happy. You were like I

was young. I really realized Kevin.

Yes, but in any case, you you've talked him a couple times. He left because he was not happy at Facebook in the direction Facebook was taking. And were you aware

of this at all? I think you mentioned it to you.

I wrote a column in the Times You might read some time. Cool thing. It's like a hot New York Times hired me to write a column. Would be nice to my son would read. Maybe one of the articles, maybe. Maybe. Okay, in any case, Casey, what do you think? Maybe for your birthday. Okay. What? Casey, what do you think of that? That would that will happen Because they you know, Kevin was comping and he actually talked about it is likely they have great ideas. We take them. Yeah, I've sort

of become more sympathetic to that idea, actually.

Seem to be like the apologists for their stealing. Well, sure, I think would

also be great if they try their own ideas. But what I will say is, after they copied stories, which was very shameless, they did start to build their own feature set around it. And the way that they've always talked about it is we think this is ah, format. And, you know, we don't think that any one company should have an exclusive license to it. So we're gonna try to build our own set of features around it, and in a lot of ways, I think they improved on what snapshot did. Um, and so you know, um,

their own format for the first leg. Consistent else can copy.

You're totally right like they should. It's just in any business. It's very rare for a business to have a chain of innovations like for the most part, they have one or two tonight for the entire lifetime. I actually do think it's really gonna hurt them. I think that Kevin Kevin, in my career I think I wrote a piece called The End of Instagram as we know it when they quit. And my point was, As of that day, Instagram became just another team at Facebook like we should not think of. Instagram is this totally separate thing. It is just a different front end for the Facebook advertising.

No moving right? Exactly. And that was the problem. Kevin had that that was happening. He couldn't hold

it back. Yeah, although I would just put it out there. We still don't know what the final straw was for Kevin Systrom. And this is my white whale. And I'm desperate for a meeting. The

war meeting the one where he was like this is war, World War Mark. When he was I wrote about it when I wrote that calm when he had that meeting where he said, Mark said This is what like he's like in The Godfather And Kevin was like, What the hell? And he's sidelined him there. You got side. That's super sideline there. Yeah, you know, he's very tasteful, and I think he thought he has distaste for that. I would guess. See what? His distaste for the fat, bloated Facebook platform. He's

a really, really sharp guy, and he's was also very competitive. And I think he continued to see Instagram very much as his thing. And then

it kind of didn't get dragged into the Russia thing. He didn't like that and he thought that was distasteful, you know, just we met at one point in the he he couldn't hide it like he knew where when he wanted to do, and they weren't gonna let him do it because they owned it. I think that was it, you know? So I felt the Wall Street Journal when I was just saying you started your own thing and it was sort of like like I couldn't do this. People will be like, How's it gonna be like, uh, like, you know, e like that's what it was. Anyway. Moving, married. I got awful. What did Ugo

Not to say. You're throwing

shade at your act. That's not my ex Inserted himself like by buying the Wall Street Journal anyway. I had no control over that, so no less. I want to finish this up on the idea of creating another social platform. People have talked about that. Louis, would you want another? What if you would grow a social network or place where you could communicate with your friends? That was from a green field. A lot of people talk about why isn't there? Is open after that, you pay for or a separate one with everyone being mad or upset was face overboard with Facebook or any of the others. Why? Why not create great one? Would you want something like that? What would it be like?

I mean, I don't really think I'm the type of person be asking that I'm not really an entrepreneur in that aspect. I think we just have to wait or wait for, like, the next thing you know, Tech genius in there. Thank

you. What do you want? What

do you know? I don't think I honestly I don't know. I think, um it's up to, like, a lot of factors. Like what the public opinion is like, what people feel. There's a need and like in social meaning what there's lacking. And I know I think this time will tell the answer. I think about you, Casey. Well, so So here's something I'm looking forward to you. So you may remember the social network of Vine, which was started by Don Hoffman and some

others used to what? You used to watch them, but then it got bought out. What do you mean?

Like, I don't know, all them like diviner who were once like original Arctic air. Not artists like original. They call themselves creators. And, um and so, like, what they did was like they had these, like, funny platforms. And then they got too serious about it. And they,

um, you like I would slam his face in the door all the time that I

have no clue. Did you? Let's put him in that. So, uh, you stay awake. So it's sold to you Twitter. And then Twitter had no idea what to do with it and shut it down. Well, what we have found in the year since his people really, really miss a fight. And you go to YouTube and they're just compilations of old vines and flowers. 80 million views, right? And so Don Hoffman has the idea of bringing back fine and, you know, with some tweaks. And so next year, he's planning to re launch a version of Vine. He's calling it bite. And I'm very excited to see what the next move mine

looks like. This is gonna end up. Yeah. Is the fountain? Yeah, Yeah. W watch

these complex. No, no, I don't think I will. I don't think I don't

know what you want. You have I

don't know if I'm ever download. Bite is what I'm saying. I don't know how. Well, why do you think logically and stuff that it doesn't become a joke in themselves? Oh,

yeah. We should talk about musically. Tic tac, tic tac. All right. We'll talk about that in a minute when we get back. But why? You watch the compilations of vines All right,

because I think it's kind of like, kind of like it's kind of like Disney taking their old classic movies and then revamping them to make some money, like sure they're going to be good. Like I'm actually looking forward to The Lion King is going to be beautiful, but you can see, like it's not gonna be what it originally was. That's never gonna have that charm that originally had.

I see and so like it. You did like it. You watched the

light. I like Vine was really good at first, but then it got too old, you know, a like the people just became just progress into something that it wasn't originally that I get that a lot of people, like, draw away from it.

Yeah, well, that that's an itching. So bite when is

it coming out? Uh, I believe, like we're supposed to see a beta in

the spring in the spring. And he's doing it by himself, raising money

from Yeah, he has some money, and I don't actually remember. Twitter is put

that, by the way. So just gone. No. And by the way, why didn't

Twitter just build a six second looping camera into their own act? Like they didn't need to kill our way?

Not because he doesn't really like it because it was lost the charm for nostalgia. Nostalgia of one.

It was like, I don't know, like, I don't know. I've only I mean, it's It's It's like it was just kind of like becoming like, you know, try not to think of a bad analogy like I'll get The Give is kind of like an old sick horse and, you know, you gotta put it out of its misery. But I don't want petty coming after

all, right? For you to stay away from my side. Come through me first. Anyway, we're gonna take a quick break. Now we're back in a minute with my son, Louis Swisher horse hater. And can

I just think you like Seabiscuit? It just got too old.

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Okay, we're back with my son Louis Switcher and Casey Newton from the verge. We're talking about a lot of things you just said about Facebook. Very interesting stuff around that Louis wants to kill Vine and Casey's doing with bite. But one of things that you mentioned that it was tic tac, and you don't like these musically these Tic Tac's

and I don't care for them. I don't know. I never actually I've never done little the up. I've never seen one that's not in like a mean? So I think you might have to bring Alex and on this one, Okay, I'm more of an expert. I mean, is the official team at the table? I have to tell you Tell me Tell talk isn't out by a company called Bite Dance With which is a Chinese companies company. And they let you film short videos on. And there's a lot of lip sinking that takes place. And people who get like, bored at work or at school will just make these very funny lipstick videos. And the APP has become very popular. And it will.

It will happen in China,

right? Very popular in China. And then there was a similar happened United States called musically Ah, bi Dan's bought musically integrated into Tic TAC announces called Tic Tac. And it is probably the fastest growing social network in America, although it's not like enormous at this point. But, you know, the thing that just trips me up is it's like if a nap is made by a Chinese company like the Chinese government is gonna have access to basically all of that data, right? And like sure, if you just making a lip synch video. That's okay, But you think about it. This network grows like along your phone in your phone. Um, you know,

I'm not trying to, like, make everyone paranoid. It's a consideration, right? If you're gonna use the social network and think about where that date is gonna be stored and how it might be used

Yeah, we do.

You stick talking. No, no, I never

We don't use lip sinking

videos when I watching. No. Now, no, I don't the other. The other big criticism that the tic Tac gets is it really does court a teenage audience, a young teenage audience like a 13 year old. And so there've been a lot of creeps, like looking at, like 13 year old girls doing lip sync videos. There are a lot of criticisms about musically that it didn't do a very good job of policing that behavior. Also, I think like all the promotional lives I've seen for tic tac are like including, like young girls that are like

It's the sturgeon, you in an inappropriate way. Yeah, it's It's disgusting, like

promoting like these, Like like like these these young girls and using them and like their videos

and I don't I

don't think that's okay. I don't know if the user consented to that or anything about that. Yeah, that doesn't I don't think it gives it a good

a good look, right? I love my feminist son is fantastic, but because it's just selling, they're trying. That's why they're doing.

I think they're just trying to appeal to a younger audience.

But now it's appealing to men. It's appealing

to you. I mean, like, yeah, it's crucial to say Like I stand behind all my criticisms. Yup, can also be a lot of fun. It is like a really silly fun. And Facebook took it seriously enough that they cloned it and they made an app called Lasso, and they put it out and s o that is now out

there. So what do you think? Alas, I

you know, I don't think it's great. The guy who ran it quit about a week after it launched, which is never a good sign. Now I call the Zaps murder clones. It's when, like Facebook looks at your app and likes it and so makes one expressly to kill it. Um, it's always

work. They didn't admit

What do they mean? They tried 100 times and it worked with stories and, you know, maybe a handful of other things, but it doesn't always work, right? I don't know. Last has not gotten a ton of traction and murder. I have never heard of last. I've never heard of last. Well, you gotta stay

in touch with Quincy. Is that with the Facebook

the teams are not in touch with last time was last. So hasn't rope them

in yet. Oh. Oh, there's horses. They're coming, riding his podcast. So one of these you mentioned Louise, means that is one thing that

I think talk is using is being used very ironically. Like, if you search tic tac videos on like, you two been stuff like you're not gonna get, like, you know, genuine, like best limps, licks the lip sync videos. You're just gonna get like people making fun of those people. And like, it gets to a point where it is cyber bullying. Like there's a point where also points out the absurdity in, like, these people want

you watch. Look at a lot of names online, right? Is that correct, or is that just your brother. I think that's more Alex. Yeah, he loves me.

I used to be like

I mean, So what's happened with those? Where's the means

going? I don't know. It's really not. I think it's a very It's an odd thing. It's like a very economic thing, too. And I think I'm gonna like us talking about it. Kind of grades.

Does that mean What is

that supposed to be? A couple of the two adults and a teenager singing a podcast? Talking about Mihm's degrades means, I think, I think, for the integrity of them e shouldn't speak. I'm just really Where do you see it? Are they sent? Mostly be a text messages. I see a long line on Instagram and a lot of them originally a lot of them on this gun was stolen from, like, places like four chan and read it. OK,

do you use those?

No, I don't read for a little bit. And I thought it was funny and like it's awesome, like funny. But it wasn't it wasn't really my cup of tea. Why? Don't know, didn't click. Really?

You're not a neo Nazi. That's good. Okay,

I don't think all people already know. I know there's some really good stuff on Reddit and Ready really wanted things. Yuan must yuan Mosque joined air supposedly joined like a subreddit about me, miss recently. And that was like quite the discussion. Why? I don't know why, but I just like I went on it And they said that like you on Muskie's in here Post Elon musk names until the Comets. Bad

Thomas back. What is it? So he comes back. Okay, this is why we can't talk about that comment. I think comments and was like, Oh, no, Is that like the Pizza Place

Comet is another thing. It's just gonna make a come back bigger than ever.

So you ready to go? And you're saying Read It is Well, I think it's really interesting. You know? One of the things

read it does that. I like

my coming. Is that right? Yeah.

No, it's it's it's a solo operation. Now it's It's a venture backed, and someone they do is they have, like, kind of a floor of rules. So it's like, you know, you can't pose like certain kinds of hate speech, but then any other subreddit can kind of raise that floor and they can make their own restrictions based on their own community. So, you know, maybe if you have a knitting community, you can say it. You know what we're like, We're not gonna talk about politics in here or something. And so you create these communities and everybody has their own rules and they can all get along better then if you're on a platform of 2.2 billion other people, all of whom had very different expectations for what kinds of discussions.

And they've also put the bad ones down, they've moved them. They haven't removed

all of all of a bottle, but many of them.

But they were the worst ones. And then they moved the bad ones down or out of hard to find and things like that. I'll tell

you, the thing that made me most interested in read it recently is that my sister in law, who is a young mother, recently abandoned Facebook and Instagram and her social networks are now and I club photo stream where she shares photos of my nephews and she's on Reddit and GS, a couple forums that she likes to go and reach. He never post.

But she service's. Yeah, make the old chat.

Well, yes, sir. She You know, she she chats. And then she just kind of browses forums, basically, but like for her, that that is enough social networking. And I thought, Well, gosh, it right, it could get my sister in law. But there may be a lot more here than

I've been giving it credit for. Interesting. Interesting mood about Gabby like these of these others. Gabble. You may not know this is where one of the people who the man who shot shot up the synagogue in Pittsburgh and kill and murder all those people, um, he was he was thrown off of reddit. Or there's he was he got to this because I called Gap, which sounds like a teen girl site, and it's essentially a free speech site, and which is essentially means it's a bunch of neo Nazis talking to each other. Essential,

right? Yeah. I mean, it's a Twitter clone that allows hate speech, basically as the shortest way to describe it. And, um, yeah, it's, um, a lot of gross. Yeah, but it has a very fraught existence. It lost after in the wake of that shooting, it lost its web hosting and lost its payment provider. Um, and,

uh, you know, it was a platform that got deep, deep platform. It currently has

those things in the same vein. There should be a lot different platforms are going to start for the right wing people for the left wing people. You see that? Yeah.

I do think that we are going to see some fragmentation, and I'm honestly not sure it's a bad thing that we see more fragmented Social networks, like social networks that are smaller, are much easier to control. And we we need more control.

Right? Louis, we're talking about the idea of people saying whatever they want. You talked about this last night. The starts with Trump at the top on Twitter and things like that. You don't pay attention in that, right? Do you pay attention?

I mean attention to politics. I actually very

interesting. What do you think of his use of Twitter? And then you said, But anyone can now say anything.

I think, like with a lot of people, um, I think times like as times were going on and like people like Trump. People who fought like speak like Trump are saying these, like, really Jenny Sanford A like ridiculous things and having the ability to say them, I think we use a public become desensitized to these things. Like I was actually watching. I think maybe it probably was a box video. I think recently you love who I like, uh, strike through. And I like as Ra's shows or whenever he doesn't video. I am a huge fan of ox. I also like the New York Times retro report, I think,

Um, but, um, yeah, I think they did a video about how this type of language and how circle circulates around the land of the nation like desensitize people and things we wanna consider absurd for politicians to say are now just normal things you consider. How does it impact using? I think honestly, like now I feel like Trump did this whatever. Like I think maybe 30. Like if somebody said that to you and you're growing up like, oh Nixon did this like you mean when he did the things dead, like if he said the things Trump was saying, that would be ridiculous and crazy And so now, like, you know, Trump,

like promoting hate speech and like promoting all these other things that he does there, you know? Not good, I guess. In the simplest terms, Um, I guess our, um It just sent it Descente sizes of us as a nation and makes us like you gradually become okay with the things he says, You know, like you know, nothing's going to change

him. So yeah, You know, he treated me yesterday.

Yeah, I saw that. It was Trump Retweeted. You know, he didn't re tweet her. It was like an image. It was like a video of Hillary Clinton saying All black people are like,

but she wasn't. She was

It was not a good job.

No, but it was It was not. She was meaning to. She was She

was joking on the joke that all black like that exactly. But it was not a good joke.

Sonny was you last in the whole audience because she was making fun of the job of the bad thing. It was what I said. I was Let me just get through this clearly, she I said I was talking about the idea of Michelle Obama saying, When they go low, we go high. But then on I said, Cory Booker said, When they go low, we kick him in the shins like and I said this out of change and what do you think of this? And she said, Actually, that was Eric Holder and I just thought it was Cory because he's been super aggressive that way, too. And so And I said, Oh, I'm sorry,

I just mix them up And she goes, Well, they all look alike, like as you know she was. She was kidding about the joke of the joke in it. I mean, it was like I was being there. It was like That's not what she wasn't She wasn't meaning that in any way. And so

I was like, Oh, my God, is she meant that she shouldn't

have said it. I know cause she's Hillary Clinton and whatever she says the wrong

thing just finds the right way to say the wrong thing. That's

what I think I know. But she's really going, You hear it like she could say hello and you'd be like, what in the world of that main like I'm just telling, you

know. No, I don't think that. I think, Hillary, I think you as a Hillary supporters and get caught up in it. No, I didn't. You get you? You don't think she says sometimes.

You know, as we show Sandberg she gets No, no, no,

I'm not saying that she doesn't. You're changing. The topic definitely does have it. Like she definitely does receive a lot of like Sex is input because she's a woman and she's also Hillary. But you also remember she's also Hillary. She always says the wrong thing at the right.

All right. Okay. I'm gonna get this way. We can have our own that we can see that. But here's the day he was Retweeted. There was a several different, so he tweeted a clip of it. There were a couple things like she's a races with video in it, and whatever the people are saying, they left out a lot of cars. They left a lot of context. And so he retweeted twice. So luckily, he didn't put my net my twitter and I would have been like dealing with the base all day long, but it was really It was interesting to say that? Oh, no.

I'm gonna get inundated today and just strolled out my union and And someone was like, How do you How do you feel about it? Like I don't care. Whatever. What did he say today? Well, who did he insult today? Because he was also insulting people. Mexico. Kara Vanzi insulted. Move! Mueller. Mueller is everything. He was insulting everybody. And you, Louis, right? I didn't pay attention to the 20 insults he did. It was like Twitter vomit. Likes having someone.

You just kind of like you just get so caught up in it. You forget about all that those were saying. And if you break down everything, you can point out the individual absurdity

casing. Yeah, it's a We're in a really tricky spot with this guy, huh? Yeah. You know, I think you're doing column like what would happen if he couldn't be on Twitter? Should just cut him off something he doesn't know. Where would he go? I

mean, people say that, and here's what would happen. He would post

somewhere else. And so

we were right about that, would screenshot it, and that would immediately get posted to Twitter

and so that the same impact? I

think it's like 95%

of them, right? Okay, go forward. Think about because he said someone would bought him and put it somewhere else.

Yeah, it was just like somebody would automate the process of taking whatever he was saying everywhere and put it, Put that right on Twitter. And, you know, like, he could use Facebook. And then if

you Facebook, Facebook wouldn't have used Tumbler. I mean, like, there's there's plenty of places a post on the Internet. You, Josh, I don't think I think it's a very interesting question. If they did that,

Yeah. I mean, you know, I

don't know, because Thanksgiving, I was like, Oh, if you like You didn't say that he did anyone crazy.

Yeah. I mean, it's really striking how much

he uses Twitter. Yeah, it iss, like there were 20 of them the other day, was really so. But So you don't think that that time at Lee's idea that you don't you're in Estes eyes. This are you. I just don't. I don't I don't follow the president. I don't know him. He's just the best troll there. That's kind of thing

Yeah. Would you Twitter do about

anything or they give me an update on Twitter.

You know, Twitter has realized recently that the tweets that performed the best are the ones that tend to make us panicked and outraged. And so they're thinking about that. And I think they should because, you know, the more you look at Twitter probably more panic or and or outraged you will become. And it's not a healthy way to live. Um, and so I think Twitter needs to figure out ways to make people feel better about themselves when they look at tweets. You know, in addition to all of the kind of scary world news, there's also a lot of really funny stuff on Twitter. There's also just a lot of people being people and

sports highlights. I like the means, Louis. Good teams. Do you not use 200 still no, you should like it. He just think through a Jack yours his whole life. I know that there are high schools. Were Twitter is really popular, you know, it's actually really good for news. You would like it plugs that. Let me ask a question. One of the things we were just discussing. Also was this idea privacy, like Twitter's all out there? You're all out there with Twitter,

your thoughts on the privacy issue, like air. You worried about that? I mean, Gates, he talked about the things in China. Um, you know, you want these separate kind of things by yourself. You said several times ephemeral, ephemeral, ephemeral.

Yeah, I think I kind of like how we've all become desensitized toe hate speech and other forms of talk that would be considered inappropriate. We've like, at least for me and the people around me. We've become desensitized to her privacy and, like, I think, you know, having to techie parents. It's like you guys are very concerned about your privacy, a lot of stuff like that. But growing up in the social media age where you know you're supposed to share, like as much as you can muster, do you want to with your public social self on the phones of like that, I frankly don't really. I don't really care about, like,

grown do not really care about like, you know, I don't put stuff. I will just not put private stuff on their report like stuff you don't really want to share on there. But, um, I think we've all just become a little less like carrying about our privacy.

Where do you think about it all? What do you think about it? Like where your location is,

Do you care about is like like things like snap maps and self gradually make us, like care less about her location to share with her friends, But he actually sharing it with Snapchat and all the people that they sell their data to. Right? So, um, I think a lot of stuff like and also just the backhanded back there back room deals of, like, data used to stuff the public doesn't really know about. Maybe

we've heard about you outraged by this.

I mean, you could think about it, You know, when you break it down with, actually, but, um, at the base level, I think people carry a lot less about

Would you like to be paid for your location and your information?

Do you think? Nice. Maybe I wouldn't have

to get a summer job. Okay, just wander around and be social. You know, it's interesting about your location. That's how I found you at a party you said you weren't

at. That was great. Your brother, that's not sure. Just wasn't

picking my phone. No, I saw you on stamp naps. That's how it just snapped naps. Notice that? Just that just emphasizes you're out of freshness. I had your brother do it and we found we know what we did is you were shadowing ghosting yourself. What is it going? You don't need to dive into this. I'm just telling you, we found your friends, and then we knew your work. Except I wasn't hiding from you. I e got my phone because I was. But I was able to locate you, and I felt

very good about it. Just very proud. In

that moment, I wa sai

found, took a gen Z detective story.

Are you do Genji? That's right. So what do you think about privacy right down there? So I don't

I don't necessarily think of it in terms of privacy, But the writer Ben Thompson has this idea of data refineries and Google and Facebook eases our data refineries in the basement like their oil company. Exactly. And you give them your data and then they turn it into this very valuable thing, and then they monetize it in various ways. And the point that a lot of people are making is like We don't really have a good sense of how much our data is worth right? Like we don't know how much it's worth after it goes to that refined right? So we're recording this in Washington, D. C. I was on Capitol

Hill this week and I was talking to you were wearing a tie.

I was wearing a tie. Everyone, how great I like, Thank you. See, everyone's weighing in on this bet. Anyway, What congressional staffers were telling me was, they want to get a better sense of how much that

Dina is worth. And maybe

if we had a better sense

of how much not

not just how much these companies were making office in the sense of average revenue per user, but like to the extent of what are we giving away

a lifetime of dollars ever right? Don't

make a face time with 50. You know

your words sound like years ago. Steve Case did this. He's saying we're making $150 off of every user this was 100 years ago, like this is how much they monetize. So and I put up my hand. I'm like, Where's my $75 I got? Sit down, Kara and I was like Would Really? Where is it? Why don't I get part of it like there should be? If people could like trade? Well, that's like sort of like selling your liver, I guess. Right? Well, you

know. So there was a social network called Steam, and they released a social network, and they released crypto tokens. And the idea was that everyone who participated would sort of earn crypto money for participating. And if he had a really popular post, you get paid much more money. And no, it was worthwhile experiment. They announced this week that they're pretty much shutting down, and

I really didn't work out. It can get ugly things. Not a great business. Right? All right. We get back, we'll talk about gadgets and things like that were here with Louis Swisher, my son and Casey Newton. Not my son

from the verge. You

wish he was. Oh, I do in a lot of ways. Thistles.

Jesse David Fox. I'm senior editor at Vulture and I hope the podcast. Good one. A podcast about jokes. It's a podcast about, well, jokes. Every week I sit down with a comedian, comedy, writer or director. We lister one of their jokes and figure out how it all came together. I don't sit down with a pen in the pad and physically write down everything. I just that's not my style. Turns out comedians take jokes pretty seriously. I like all Joe's. Okay, that's what I do.

That's what I live for. There's really nothing else I care about. It's all very revealing. What did you sort of learn from this? What was your takeaway? Nothing. I am not. I'm not a smart person. Good one from Vulture and the Box Media Podcast Network Describe for free on Apple podcasts or on your favorite podcast at you do know to use the podcast aspirin.

I'll let a great question Jesse David Fox. Okay, we're here with Louise Swisher, the final section of our lovely 300 podcast of Paris Fisher's Rico Decode. Thank you very much. I agree. I deserve their kudos and much. Stop that. Stop it Now you're making fun of me. You two are like really bad golf Clap for you Golf club. Just overly lights like a cheer Don't. Anyway, I am fantastic. Everybody knows that. Louis, you're really where you're the most fantastic mother ever. I just want to underscore

that actually wakes me up in the morning.

I'm fantastic. I do. I do that. Your brother this morning I go. You're welcome. That's no. It's like rolled his eyes and others dramatic fashion. It's all right. I want one gadget. So you and games and things like that. Louis would gadgets. You have your, like, weird little speakers, right? What do you

mean, honestly, like the only guy just I'm using my phone, my headphones and my speaker on, like, you know, like Xbox. But like I used to on it like, um, they feel like like, 555 or seven years ago, there was, like, a kind of a gadget revolution and all these tech gadgets for coming out. And then once they all came out, people realized which ones they like, which ones were useful,

and they settled with, like, what they like to use. And I feel like nowadays have way less gadgets than I did that because also, you're going all these promotional things that you come on with all these free gadgets on try amount for most of my friends. But I think now honestly, like my tech, not such a bad. Like all my tech biotech products are pretty simple in, like, a small amount of the phone. Just computer phone is the phone, of course. Computer like for work and school work and stuff. Headphones and speaker in your buds. That's about it for months.

And what headphones were using. And are they wireless? Uh, yes. I'm using the beats solo. Wireless rightly sponsor me. Uh, they're They're really

good, Dad. Why do you like them? Because they're not too much is comfy. Yeah. So you use those completely. That's all used nothing.

I just Yeah, different issues. Those

in my ear buds, right. If you didn't give up your phone, your computer or your game player, which one would you give up?

I feel like probably like the crank them. I feel like the phone just definitely top tier. Um, in computer. Actually, maybe I think the computers a lot more. First time I could like if I lost my phone. Or, like, you know, I didn't have a phone. And I feel like I could find a lot of ways to use my computer to replace it. You in texture. I contest cause it's the phone is the critical element you have phone? Probably is pretty critical, but I do like my computer lock. I think I give up the Xbox, but I really do like

the Xbox. We're talked out in a minute casing your thoughts on your gadget Sing? Yeah. I'm also pretty Somebody Louis has speakers. You have those with speakers? Do you have the ex? The one with the cross

Ultra. Its ultimate years ultimately is boon to

you. Have several

of them have one of them. Alex has 10 you're right. Okay. Stealing from him. It's like portable Bluetooth Speaker thing. Yes.

Yeah. I'm also not

a huge got ahead. I have the iPhone 10. This is the first year in five years that I didn't just go by. The new iPhone just needed. Seem like there's just no real benefits. I need a new found and they have the same phone for teeth years, starting to break down the bedding in on Monday, but I The my most recent gadget purchase that I do love is the new iPad pro waiting for the iPad that had face I d. Um, I use it mostly as just like, ah, kind of like TV, but also, like, check my email and retweets. But yeah, the thing is fantastic.

I have when I haven't used it all. Really? Have a sit with

you. I have not even looked at an iPad. I talked to so many people there. Like I never use my iPad for anything, and I don't get it is like the best thing for, like watching Netflix Take it on the line. Not on your computer. Well, I can't download episodes of anything. Tow watch on my computer. So I'm taking a long day tonight. Nineteen's. Yeah, you're right. I could pay for it, but it's like, you know what?

I want to watch a season of Netflix shows like I take a long flight, you know, like on my way here. I was, like, planning on getting all this work done, and then united wife. I just didn't work for the entire cross country flight. And so, you know, at a bunch of episodes of a TV show download on Netflix. It's called Shits Creek. Um, uh, I'm not sure if we're allowed to say that it was created by Eugene Levy. It also starts Catherine O'Hara, one of the funniest TV shows I've ever seen. And they're coming to San Francisco in January. You have to see them. Is it?

What? Is it up shit's Creek?

Exactly. Exactly. It's, um Oh, my gosh.

It's so funny. Yeah. Okay. All right. So use that, and then you use

your phone. Obviously. Yeah. Use my phone.

Um, yeah. Like I mean, I'm not using my computer all day. Now. I do with so much stuff on the really 100% just writing. That's it.

I put together my news that on the computer, the computer is useful to me, writing kind of your job is like text tweet, right? Done your job so you could do most of it from your

phone and chatting here and talking. I have a television show, but you also don't watch. But that's okay,

didn't I? Honestly, I've like, been, like wondering why we still pay for cable anyway. Why do Wait. What?

Why do we pay for cable. Well, I don't. You watch cable? No, but I didn't buy all the package. This time in Washington is true. I didn't buy it. I just have the regular

one, cause it's just Just watch the news. But watch cable news. I stopped watching news a while.

You don't watch anything on TV. What do you watch on that TV of yours? I just thought

I'd buy you one, because

I like to play video games. All right, we'll get

to that monitor than

a TV monitor. That's exactly years ago. Jason Kaehler, who started who loo at a thing. I had a little event at Sundance, and I invited. This was when they just started invited him. Reed Hastings, who had just started Netflix. And the third person was Chad Hurley, who had just started YouTube. And we were in a basement and it was full. But I was like, These guys are going to change over. And there was all the Holland people like, No, they're not like it was like they were so uninterested in them. I'm like I have assembled. These is the future, and they were like, No,

remember, I met the CEO of Netflix wants your conference. I mean, uh, the only thing I said to him, you need to put more programs on Netflix. It's quite boring.

Any Didier massively in debt because of you, D d Oh, you're right. It was too much

like you. I think I might take credit for that inspiration.

OK, I will ask him because he's coming. Hopefully coming back to code this year. You can ask him yourself if you're there. Um, so, uh, I'm actually not gonna be there. And we're gonna be, um so So let's get to games. Let's finish up talking with games. And so you you're a big game player. Your games. I know you do. I see the glow, and there's no other lights

on. Really taste like I'm just in the kitchen cooking and I'll look over and I think it's just glows. Green case. Just staring at this TV with the constellation I've never seen before In it. I love it. I love it. I love it. It's great. It's a fun way to blow off steam. Also, like video games now are great at telling stories. And I love stories.

Okay, So tell me what you're thinking then,

Louis. So the game that I've been playing most recently is this called Spider Man. And it's exactly think you play Spider Man around the world. It's amazing. I love it so much of it. Well, it sort of gives you the feeling of being spider Man because, like anything in the world you could sort of swing from, So you just sort of like, sling your webs and you fly all over the world, and then you run into bad guys and you punch him in the mouth, and then you tie him up with you. Don't kill your friends, Your family. Never expect a friendly neighborhood, Spider Man. Okay, so it is not as violent as it sounds.

Okay, so you just

think it's a really good game, and it's just made it.

It's beautiful, really beautiful. What's the story behind it?

I mean, the story is that your friend Peter is working with a doctor who turns out to be a doctor. Octopus spoiler alert. So he's gonna take care of that.

Okay, I say so interesting. Why do you like Louis?

I really played. I just play like it's a really beautiful, right? I wish. I wish I could play more, but Alex has the PS four in his room.

Okay. All right. Okay. Which is what Did you

ask for that for Christmas? Now

that was him. What did you

say? I am a study Xbox

fan. Yet.

Why is that? I just been using an Xbox, and for a while all my friends have Xboxes

and and you talk to each other on

them, right? Sometimes I mean, like, is that all the time? I don't really. I like playing single player games more like Assassin Street and the new Red Dead redemption, which is really good. Um, like, I feel like when you put it, it's just just it's incredible. Game should be letting us. Yeah, it's fine. I mean, it's a It's a western.

It's an old white. Yet it's a pre it's ah, it's a prequel prequel to the original Red Dead, which came out a couple years ago in 2010 A long time. And it's about just, you know, doing Western stuff like Robin trains. And I don't know what I noticed. Other people having people, exactly. I haven't died that much into the 60 hours of that shit. You can D'oh! Yeah, I'm a huge fan of it. And I plan on spending some time this weekend

playing all right. Excellent. And what's the other one you just mentioned?

Assassin's Creed, right? I really like

that guy with the cloak, right?

Yeah, I've just been a huge fan of that since, uh, Black Flag came out, which it was a really good game. They've just gotten, I think they've just gotten better since. Except why's that for some, like, dips, like with unity and Syndicate. But if you never play these games, they're all historical fictions. And so each one takes place during a different historical time. And as you play the game and you, you know, murder bad people,

you also were good. I like or good people you're feeling You learn about the history of ancient Egypt orange agree, and you can interact with historical figures in this one. I just did it most recently. I just did a mission with Plato and, uh, like all these Greek philosophers and stuff, which I think is really interesting. Yeah. This is how teens are learning their history, their murdering people. But then also learning about

hurting people. People with played exactly disturbed, intrigued at the same time, sometimes burning people for Remember before Plato? Yeah, OK, gotta light a quote, please. Anybody I can't. Okay, because he doesn't

saying. Actually, actually, I could get kill him

famously said an assassin screen. All right, so what is good? What are you looking forward to getting in the game, inspector in the games for this Christmas

sector? Um, well,

I would say all the

big games are out for for this year. Redhead is the one that just came out. And everyone who loves single player games like Louis is playing that one. So that's probably the one that I'm gonna do next. I'm also thinking about upgrading my consul jokes. I have a PlayStation four, but there is now a police station for pro That has better graphics. And by the way, I just bought a new TV. So that's gonna be coming to the house. And it has, you know, better

capable. I'm gonna couch

yet, but I will. I know where that's where we're gonna talk about that plant. Yeah, it's It's all happening now anyway. That's what I'm looking for.

you know, yelling for you. What about you? What you want? What did you want to ask me for from Santa

Santa? That old man? I don't know. I think I kind of rediscovered my love for the week. Um, I had a friend's house recently. It was just so damn fun.

What were you playing?

I played Wii Sports has worked the greatest game of all time. And I did the mission. The one like little mini game where you have a sword, but certainly a sword. It's like a phone rod. And you could run around and hit people and make sure they don't hit you. You really run around like control? No. Kind of stand there swinging your arms with

the We're all right. I used to have that. Yeah,

we spent hours on that. I was really good. And I am still really good, right? It will take any viewer in a challenge. Challenge? Probably. You can't play against people. We sword. It's not we sort of like. It's like, do one thing. I'm not really sure it's called showdowns called showdown. Okay, Only

sports. You want this because you know, I

just want to reconnect with, like, a childhood consul that I really enjoyed using. And I think I forgot about it for a while and you getting caught up in all these new consoles and games. But, you know, sometimes it's good to get back to

the way we have it at home somewhere we should find you just love

the idea that in these times, even the 16 year olds want to return to a simpler time. That's how messed up we are as a country right

now. Yeah, well, I'd like to do pong again. Not interesting. Even at the time, You remember? Of course. Oh, Boop!

Yeah, I played. I've

dabbled in Devil Devil for everyone. It goes up and I like the one with the space invaders. Packman or your Pac Man made me nervous. Me anxious. All video games make me. I've tried to play them, and it's like country line dancing with me. I cannot do it. What?

Did you have a game on your phone? You plenty, folks. None? No, she hasn't this app with a bunch of death quotes. Yeah, I think that's more of their game for her. Every day. It'll problems like you're gonna die deal with it and she loves it.

I really do love it. I love it. It's got we croak. What's the quote today? Here's why. It's called Week Rocastle Frog. And the whole point is, let me read it from the thing In Bhutan, they say contemplating death five times a day brings happiness. And it does. I love my week, rogue. It's the best thing. And so it's 99 cents and I've gotten so much out of it. I put the quotes up on Twitter. Me today is, um ah Frank Costa,

that coast SSG our voices instinct is also due to the fact that our culture has decided that suffering has no value. Oh, do you like that? That's a good one. Sure, that's come on. Plato said that Yeah, here's another one. This is a good one. James Hillman. To feel something thoroughly does not mean it to be, you know, to feel something thoroughly does not mean it to be thoroughly. It is a mistake, a big, bad mistake to take feelings utterly,

literally. I think that's a good one. And then this. There's only two more one that I put up. I was referring to Trump completely. Um, because he annoyed me with something to say.

Who? He annoyed me today.

You know, Uh oh, this is, uh this is a matter that would hold on. Oh, man. Shot you. Oh, here we go. Uh, it's, uh, uh okay. Both. Yes, it is because the guy who wrote the philosophy book whenever something of confirmation Flossie, it's because you don't know the end and purpose of things that you think the wicked and criminal have power and happiness.

I felt better about that. And then lastly, I'm gonna read one more, which I thought was just really funny by Richard Sickened. I don't really blame you for being dead, but you can't have your sweater back. You can't have your sweater back. I know. That was brilliant. I'm thrilled with it. It makes me happy Is my little game. I don't play any games on my phone. You know, I don't play cards. My mom played solitaire alone.

She loves she likes ah, Churchill to Wood said Churchill's a card game that he invented. I think during them. Okay,

well, she plays card games. She plays card games on it and stuff, but I don't play. She's always playing.

This always plays. Always Playing is coming in town this week, and I cannot

wait to see you. I know she uses her her phone

all the time. Oh, yeah, she

really does. She really does. She and she talks to it, though. She goes

Google, she doesn't type. She yells and always just hear her fingernails. Yes, she's got against the screen like Lily. You have to use your fair

because I am smashes. Yeah, she she wax at it and she for news of the New York Post. She love her. We love her, but she uses the phone quite a bit. All right, I want to finish up with predictions. I'd like some prediction or something you, like, invented something that would be really cool or something. Something you'd like to go away. Casey, you're up.

Well, I will reiterate my prediction from earlier, which is that 2019 is all it's gonna be about the smaller social networks. It's gonna be about the group chat. It's gonna be about getting away from these big broadcast social networks and into spaces that are more tightly controlled. So that is my big prediction from what would you like to go away? I would like for there's a thing. An instagram that shows you how many people saw your story. And I hate it when you opposed your story. It will be like 800 people, sire. Story. And I hate it because it just makes me feel like I'm being creeped on because most of those people they don't send messages or anything like that. I just wish that would go. I don't need to know how many people

saw my story. Right. All right. OK, good. That's

a good one. Could you repeat the question?

What would you like? What's your prediction for something this year in tech?

Um, I think I agree with Casey. But I also think like me returning to my wee wee wee all returned like the simpler time time Hopefully, all the big companies and stuff with their mega APS will return to like their true reforms

and what they think that's well said. I'm gonna get my carrier pigeon back. It's gonna be great getting along really well. The cat will eat it, but that's nonetheless. And what do you think has to go away

uh, Facebook, I think. I don't know. I think I actually don't know. I don't know, You know? I don't know. I can't think of anything right now.

Alright, Swisher. That was great, Casey. Thank you. Guys are really charming. I have to say, you are a charming pair. Uh, and I was more to do. And I'll see you more in my kitchen coming out soon. I think this is what happens in our household. Anyway, thank you all for listening. You can find more episodes of Rico decode on Apple podcast Spotify and Google podcasts. Wherever you listen, podcast. And please tell a friend about the show You can follow me on Twitter at Cara Swisher. Louis, do

you want my father's solicitors to follow you online? I don't think so. You know, I used to know. No, thank you. Okay, good. Okay, Casey, work people follow you. I'm at Casey Newton and my newsletters, the birds dot com slash interface and interfaces of wonderful news that I recommend it highly from people. It's just a fun radio,

and it's really was very insightful. Now that you're done with this, go out and check our other podcast recode media and pivot. You can find those shows Whatever you found this one. Thank you for listening to this episode of Rico Decode. And thanks to our editor, Joel, Robbie and our producer, Eric Johnson, I'll be back here on Monday. Tune in, then I don't think I'm overstating it when I say Samsung's Galaxy Tab S six is one of those technologies that redefines what's possible. It's a two in one. So laptop and tablet, that's everything you need it to be and does everything you needed to do for as long as you need to do it. It's got an S pen so you can control your tablet without ever touching it. Launch APS.

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