#004 - Steve Stewart on overcoming debt, quitting his business and editing podcasts full-time (Podcast Editors Club)
Record Edit Podcast

Full episode transcript -


it's a mission. I don't know why podcasts editing now is my mission. Before the financial coaching was and it forced me to get out of my shell and go out and do stuff because I knew I was helping people and I wasn't put on this earth just to consume and and, you know, sit in the sunshine and bask in the rays. Nobody helps me when you're sitting in the corner. Hello and


welcome back to the record. Edit Podcast podcast. I'm your host, Bradley Denham. And today we're talking to a fellow podcast producer. His name is Steve Stewart. He's absolutely dominating the production of shows in the personal finance space. He's the creator of the Podcast Editors Club on Facebook with currently over 4400 members and is now working on the podcast editor's conference. Steve, you're a busy guy.


How are you doing? You don't know how busy I was actually about to cancel this, but I knew it was important. And you're the first interview first actual recorded interview since announcing the first ever podcast editor conference


Super excited toe to see how that pans out. But before we before we really dive into that in the Facebook group and, of course, making money. Doing podcasts, editing. Let's first talk about your podcasting journey and what led you to become a producer.


Well, I've told this story a few times before, but it gets better every single time. Uh so I hope that the board away with my story I started getting into personal finance, just learning about it back into the early two thousands, bumped into Dave Ramsey on the radio, started listening and following his stuff. We actually my wife and I got a consumer debt 2007 and I knew this is something that most people weren't being taught. They definitely weren't being shown her. Taught this in schools. It was stuff that nobody really saw it on their own until they were in crisis mode. So I thought, OK, I started a small financial coaching business. So here in ST Louis started that up in 2010 I was listening to podcasts, love podcasts. I thought,

you know, I've got the gear. I know what you know. I know how to record an audacity. I could do a fine cast because everybody can do if I've guessed right, launched the thing in 2010. And then there's a conference that started called The Financial Blogger Conference Start in 2011. I missed the 1st 1 but I went to the 2012 and love the community. There's these people writing about financial topics, mostly bloggers. But then there were podcasters like me. There were people starting to do you two videos and stuff like that, and I was always encouraging people to put their face in their voice on their blawg. So is the blogger who had a podcast after a few years just being known as the guy who knew more about podcasting, the rest of him, which wasn't a lot.

But But of course. You know, if you know a little bit more in there, everybody else you're considered the expert. I had a couple of famous bloggers company say, Steve, they just want to hit record and they asked me to do the rest, and I had spare Time is like, Yeah, I know. I know what I'm doing. I'd love to help you out. Sure enough, we launch the show, and it's really big known bloggers. A big email is so it became very popular.

And when this community this Finn kind committed heard you could outsource the pain of editing, I got more people calling more people calling. So between January 2016 to July 2016 it's just grew so many clients from my peers, my friends that I had to give everything else up. Everything I was doing, I had to give up. I retired my podcast. I stopped financial coaching. It's just started because I had no time to do anything else except for high caste editing. And then it just exploded from there.


What do you say to the guy that's that's still struggling to find their first client? How did you find your first client?


Being part of the community is how on I was just talking about This was the We had a webinar last night announcing the conference, and one of the questions was, you know, where do you Where is this water hole where you can find the clients is hanging around? There's no such thing except when you are involved in a community. And I'm not talking about Goto podcast conferences. Yes, goto podcast conferences to learn about the the skills, the art of podcasting. But if you're already belonging to a community of something that interests you, well, you would be the guy who would help that community. I'll give you a story inside of the fin con community. Even before I became the podcast guy, I guess you say there was a guy. His name is Grayson Bell. He had a financial block,

but then he started. He had a really a good talent for solving problems with people's websites, WordPress problems, email, marketing, stuff like that. Anytime somebody in the Fink on Facebook community had a question he topped in there and need answer the question. So where people started calling them in hiring to do little jobs. And then it just got to grow into this big thing. And everybody knew Grayson was the guy to call if you had a problem. Well, then I became known as the Grayson Bella. Podcasting is what they call me, so I became known as the podcasting guy. And then there's a guy in the group now is known for the YouTube, and there's some people in there who are also known for these skills.

And it's not just like one person owns it all. But we were involved in community before became specialists in something that would help them. So if you're involved in meet up groups, if you're involved in social groups, be the person who helps out be the person who answers those questions, and people will naturally gravitate towards you


on that note too. I noticed on your website you call yourself the podcast editor for personal finance shows and kind of in the same vein. Would you recommend that other freelance producers tried to niche down and like, zone in on being the guy for that


interest? Absolutely. I absolutely do. Now we don't know what that means. I mean it, you can define mine because I I went to this conference and everybody had it for pretty much goes to this conference. But it doesn't have to be something like that. Now. I won't say that you have to just on Lee, take clients like that when you're getting started. I will say though, that that should become your eventual goal because right now I am at a point where I have so many clients. I could be very, very picky. In fact, I should be. I should start saying noticing people and I I should.

But because I have, you know, a full plate. I don't need any more business to take on unless I want to grow. This thing passed myself and I'm working on that. But when I first started, I was taken, you know, had a chiropractic doctor. I had a guy who was selling real estate. I had a guy who was a different type of doctor. There were my clients because they heard about me from somebody else, and it just grew from there. So that, of course, help me build a portfolio. More recommendations, more testimonies. And when the play got full and I was able to raise my rates than they naturally kind of progressed away because I also help them find another editor, that's that's something we can talk about maybe later.


I've also seen you say frequently in posts and videos that I've seen in the group and even on a T shirt. That podcast editing is my job, not yours. And of course we know what that means. But what exactly does that mean when you say that to the host, you're trying to work


with. Well, that's the perfect phrase to let people know that they shouldn't be doing their own editing. If they hate it, it's not their job. Think about it. If you're an editor for yourself, you're not getting paid to do that. Yes, you get the benefit of having a podcast and forever, whatever the residual benefits are that people listen. And maybe you've got a patriotic song like that, but it's probably not your job. So podcast editing isn't your job. If it's your own show, it should be. Somebody else is doing that for you.

Take that weight that I mean, that's a lot of time to edit your show. If you're doing the deep dive type editing, I'm talking about doing not just putting the tails on and mixing it down to be three. So the podcast having is really not something that you should be doing yourself. If you're trying to gross this podcast into something bigger than just 30 minutes or 60 minutes a week on iTunes,


and it is such a huge time suck. I remember when I first got started, it was taking me like 10 hours that it a show and I, like came from a music background doing audio, and it's just a different animal. And a lot of these people are just business people, or our personalities are, and they have no media production experience, so they shouldn't even like you said They shouldn't be editing there. Show like that's not their job. Their job is to create the content, not get lost in the production


of it. Exactly. If you're a heart surgeon, you should not be replacing your garage door. That is not something you should be doing. You should be paying somebody else to do that. Now you could. And I'm just saying that you wouldn't enjoy it to a lot of people like to do things around the house and repair things. But you know what comes to electricity and plumbing? Uh, I'm gonna I'm gonna hire a specialist because a I could electrocute myself. That's not very good and be they're gonna do a better job more efficiently And yes, it might cost me a little bit more money, but I get my time back. That's a lot more valuable to me. Uh, you know, as a heart surgeon or as a podcast editor. My time is more valuable to me than the 200 bucks to have him, you know, fix the wiring in a faulty ah


ceiling fan or whatever. Let's go a little bit deeper on the value of a podcast editor before we get in the rates in the money and what everybody wants to hear. Let's first talk about the practical. What exactly makes a podcast editor great


customer service and, of course, delivering a good product. I'll tell you, I'm not the best editor in the world, but for some reason this community sees me as the expert. Now I do a decent job, and we're talking about podcasts, anything. We're not talking about a multi $1,000,000 movie production where, you know, if you see we were with my wife and I were watching an old movie the other night, I was still in color, so it wasn't too old. But it was an old movie, and we saw the boom arm come into the shot. You know,

the microphone was in the shot and we pointed it out because it's kind of funny. You know, that stuff just you can't really get away with that in, you know, big production films or audio dramas or theater podcasting. Yes, you should have a really good show, but it doesn't have to be perfect is what I'm saying now. Perfection is objective. It's an objective turn. Survey can proceed that the way they want. But there's a little more leeway because a lot of people you're listening to this wonderful audio production in dinky little air butts. Eso, an audio editor is really more about the service you're providing. Build, too,

improve the product so that there's less friction for the listener. That's the way I describe it to my clients is you're paying me a lot of money, but what I'm doing is I'm removing the friction for your listener. All these stumbles or you know, the guest keep starting everything with Oh, that's a great question that's just gets to be repetitive and mostly annoying. After a while, you know, I'm talking about everybody listening knows what I'm talking about, so let's get rid of the friction when we can and make it so we can get to the meat of the content right away, because that's what the listeners therefore and they will value this show Maur than the show. That doesn't take the time to take those things out so that my clients are also becoming more competitive in the podcast in space because their product is better and it's because they're not spending half their time editing. They've got that. Plus, they might have somebody who's doing their show notes or they're doing their social media. You know that. We think the my host my client, can focus on at least getting the next interview set up was recorded and not editing the show.


I also think it just shows a respect for the listeners time because all those bums and Oz and repeats and just pointless pieces of content that all adds up. I think you were actually the one that turned me on to thinking this way, and that's that. If you have a one hour interview and you cut out, for example, 10 minutes of garbage, whether that sums Oz, whatever and multiply that by X amount of downloads that episode gets you're saving like hundreds of thousands of minutes. Potentially. That's a lot of time when you think about it like that. So


funny inside of the Facebook group. We occasionally talk about how much time we cut out of these interviews, and it always hovers between 12 to 18%. And if you think about an hour long recording is now, instead of 60 minutes is now 48 minutes. Uh, yeah, think of it 12 minutes. Saved 100 listeners. That's a lot of time that you just saved and you know, it's It's a nice way to look at it. It's off course. I like doing some math and stuff, but really, it's that friction that you've taken away. You've gotten rid of the crab because you're not. Not only are you getting to your destination faster by listening to Les Audio, but it's fewer road roadblocks and bumps in the road getting there, and it's a lot more pleasurable, pleasurable experience.


So what do we What do we say to the guy that takes your advice and focuses on their niche and their community and picks up their first client? And now they're sitting there with the like, their dog open working on the show, but they still haven't quite figured out what they're charging for their work. Where do you think is a good starting


point. Well, I say you have to make a least $20 an hour, and that's even before you dig into income, taxes and all that garbage. I mean, you've got to make at least 20 bucks an hour. So if you're spending three hours on a project, you know you'd better be making 60 bucks or more. Now we have found that the average that's charged for a 60 minute recording and that could be the entire show to it doesn't just mean it's straight up interview. But you're taking this 60 minute recording. You're doing the detailed editing, the arms, and as the you know, people haven't heard the edits that you made at the point. You're listening now because you're gonna cut these out. I have to go tell my dog to stop,

you know, messing around. And they don't know that until I just said it right. You take out all that junk, you do the noise reduction, you do the noise. The volume leveling makes it down. The MP three give the whole package back. That was about 101 $110 for 60 minute. Now it might take them three hours to do that. At that point, they're making about 33 bucks an hour on average. So they're they're beaten that you've got to kind of go back words in your calculation to figure out Am I charging enough? And that's just the starting point Now. We did also find in the survey that the average rate charged for all the people that that responded was about 40 bucks an hour. Now that's our worked.

So that would be a nice benchmark that trying to hit if you're working three hours on a project, start to finish, then 120 bucks is what you should be charging, because it would be 40 bucks an hour. And that's just gonna make you average


for context. I know exactly what you're talking about when you mention the survey because, like I'm part of the group, but for those who aren't yet, which they should be, because I really believe that the Podcast Editors Club is like by far the most helpful place for anyone wanting to do a podcast production. But for a little context, let's let's dive into the survey. What were some of the questions and who were the survey takers. I'm assuming it was the group


I'm bringing up. Now. There's another at a point.


I almost want to leave these in just for the irony.


No, uh, s so bad. All right, so the questions were on. I gave you the parameters earlier. 60 minutes, noise reduction. Detailed editing. Makes it down them before you give it back to him. How much would you charge again? The average. Or maybe it incest earlier. The averages between 100 and $910 on average. How long would it take in? The average time was somewhere around two and 1/2 hours There. Now,

if people want to get the slides and the details from Aah these, they can go and get them. We have a download link at Podcast Editor's conference dot com and they can click on, get that now and then get the sides and everything, get the actual details. You know, the whole dot matrix thing that Mark put together Pretty mark deal from private land. He's just fantastic. He's put all this stuff together. The other questions were asking about other service is that they provide So is it just editing you do. Or do you also provide show notes or social media management or voiceovers? I'm surprised how many people offer voiceovers, how much your total income comes from podcast production, and those service is that I just mentioned. And then ask, Did they work full time,

which I consider 35 hours or more a week on podcast Production Service's and then ward of some of the pod centric related events, kind of like meet ups and conferences that you go to? And about 1/3 of the people said they don't do any. But then we had quite a few sip, I guess. Movement, a good number, said She's She pockets Life, which is the first time coming up hasn't happened yet. So we've got people are interested in the big conferences and small as well.


How did you found the Facebook group and what led, like what led us here to now having a conference backing this Facebook group? And I think it's only a couple years old,


isn't it? Yeah, it's January 2017. I love some of the other Facebook groups they have to do with podcasting, but I'm so tired of being in there. And, of course, the first question. So I'm new to report on same caste or a squad cast. And this is, by the way, being record on squad cast, which is really excellent. You get those same questions every day. It's like I you know, I'm tired of those newbie questions. I really want to learn more about the production side.

All right, let's start a group just for the production side of hide casting. So I thought, OK, podcast editors. I'm an editor. I call myself an editor. Even you might say, production, it's a more generalized term. We'll just the editors Beanies right inch wide mile deep. Let's go teach five cats editors. And so I selfishly create this group doesn't wanna hang out with my friends who did post production. And like you said earlier, we're almost of 4500 members now. It's grown tremendously,

and I am a real jerk and I will remove any post that goes, Hey, I just bought this mixer and nope. Delete. Yeah, because that's all content creation. There's no mixers in podcast editing, all right, it's all in the content creation, so we only talk about the postproduction aspects. We don't talk about mixers. We don't talk about microphones. We certainly don't talk about, you know, media hosts unless we're trying to solve a problem for our clients. So that's why I started self, because that's all I wanted to talk about, because that's what I'm focusing on here in my business. And I think it's it's drift. It's definitely We've established those boundaries and that group now where we have those discussions and they can go deep or discuss wide and it's it's fantastic.


But how did that lead to the conference? I think that's coming up. What spring? Frank?


Yeah, the conference really was Mark Deal, my friend, my partner. He kept pushing me. In fact, there's another project that it's on my plate that he's been pushing me do, and I really should do that. I just I haven't I haven't booked the time away to do it. He was talking to me about what you should do a conference and we could have in Atlanta because it's a really big place and he was in Atlanta, so it makes it so easy for him to go scope out places and my gosh, you know that would be kind of difficult. I don't know anything about conferences. Well, he was having conversations with some other people who run conferences in one of those ChrisCr missiles from Pot Fest who's been running pot Fest in Orlando for a number of years. But I've been if I'd fess. It's fantastic.

What we've ended up doing is that very first like pre Day, which is March 6th Friday, March 6th. It's going to be one day event focused on Lee on Pied cast production. So it is a silo conference. This is actually an idea that that fin con does. There's always a like a side conference that happens right before or after Finn kind. This year, there were two that it followed immediately after one's called Card Con, which is all about credit cards, another one called military influencers, which isn't necessarily financial. But there's a lot of people go to fin con who have a military background who talk about money to the military or you know how it affects the military. So they're already there. It makes sense. You've already booked the flight,

you forget the hotel, stay an extra day, and that's how this is gonna work out perfect for Apophis. Because then if we end up, you know, selling more than 100 tickets, we might need a bigger room. Well, we've already got the hotel. We already know it's gonna be weaken. Have it moved to a slightly larger room to accommodate that. So that's what Mark has been working on to get that all set up.


What do you most excited for?


Oh, my gosh. I get to hang out with podcasts, editors all day, and I'm gonna learn. I mean, there's gonna be some really great session's already talked to a few people who I've I've gotten ideas of what they're good at, And this could be the business side of we might have a session or two about the actual production side of editing, but I really want to talk about the business side of it. So we're gonna talk about marketing. We're talking about branding. We're talking about getting your clients about getting, you know, getting your rates up, things like that. We haven't put anything in stone yet, but that's, you know, we just announced it last night. Give me some time.


I'm super excited on that note. Let's dive into a little more of the business angle here and talk about marketing and branding and raising rates. A lot of people get hung up on raising the rates. I feel like we've all fell victim to that. So kind of keeping along with our example with the guy that has niche down got their first client. Maybe they're working for $10 an hour. How do they make the jump to 20? And should they even be charging hourly, or should they be charging by the project? Personally, I like to charge by the project because it it works. It is like a motivator to push me to become a more efficient producer,


right? Well, it says that first, do you charge for your time worked, or do you charge for the editing that you do for them? As far as a project, I'm like you. I like the project, but I do see cases where it makes sense for you to charge by the hour. The problem I have with charging by the hour is my client doesn't know what they're going to paying until I'm done, and there is the opportunity for people to fudge the numbers there. You know, they went through in an hour. So, you know, they're drinking coffees. Yeah,

some three hours, man. And my back hurts, you know, and I don't ever want to be accused of that. So I just do it by the project. But there are tools out there that will help you to track your time and be able to prove it to your client to say, Look, I'm charging you. You know, we'll go with the $40 an hour thing. I'm starting you 40 bucks an hour, Three hours. So there's 100 20 bucks. I do like the the project. Milo and I charge my clients why?

I have two models. I have a per month service, so you just play fat. Ah, flat rate every month. And we already know how many episodes they're gonna release him. What the length is gonna be there? They're pretty study with that. But then there's clients who just are like, I don't know if I'm always gonna release an episode. Ah, I might want to do an extra 11 month. Um, one might be short. When will you be long? So I have a flat rate for 45 minutes of audio that they upload for that episode.

And then, you know, if it goes longer, it's an extra 10 bucks for every 10 minutes or something like that. That way they know before the end upload how much it's gonna cost him. So your first question was, uh, asking for a raise. Was that where we're going? Yeah, getting rates up, we'll supply and demand definitely has a big factor on that when you're just starting out and the way I started, I was a side hustle. It was just a hobby. It wasn't even really something I thought could ever become a career. I mean,

it's still crazy to me. It's been three and 1/2 years and people pay me to do this. I mean, this is crazy. So I charged these people way, way. I mean, I might have been making if I'd be lucky if I made 10 bucks an hour. Let me go back First. Clients were two famous financial bloggers, Paula Pant and J Money J. Money from budgets are sexy, who, by the way, just sold his website to the Motley Fool. And if I am in my nose to the Motley Fool is that's a big deal.

Okay, so you want to start the show together? They don't want to do the editing because they're busy doing their blog's. They're successful bloggers, and they had email lists and all this other stuff. They sent me these recordings. They're a good hour, hour and 1/2 long at charge of 40 bucks an episode want Want wall buried their way under judging it was a side hustle I was doing in my spare time, Uh, wasn't really taking away from family time too much. There was, of course, some. But, uh, you know,

that was just something that I wanted to do for them, and I had to charge him something. And they also respect that. I mean, they were gonna get it for free. So once it got to be where, you know, I was getting more clients and stuff, the new clients that were coming on board, I was able to charge more because I had already established my credibility. They already knew, You know, my portfolio, which might have just been the one show, and that might be all you need to get your second client say, Oh,

well, I had it. You know, Joey Nancy's show. You know that somebody's enquiring about you, so then you just raise your rate on the next one. In fact, I just found out how Britney Felix, from podcasting for coaches, raises her rates. Every time she gets a new client, her rates go up for the next line. Maybe not much. Maybe it's only five bucks or temp. I don't know what it is, she says.

Every single time you, the client, my rates go up for the next one. That way you've got clients who might be on an old business model, and if they eventually drop off, your newest clients are paying. It could be up to double that easy. It's the point where now I'm not charging 40 bucks for anything. Well, take the back. I've got a podcast and their shows are under 10 minutes. So I think I'm charging Justus a starter package type thing. 40 bucks, but because I don't have anything like that, but they're they're definitely more than 40 bucks. And uh,

that's that's how I like those ideas and, you know, raising your rates a long way As you get new client, raise your rates for the next one. And if somebody comes back and says, Oh, well, you were doing timing show for this amount. Okay, Well, that was that amount back then. Ah, no. Feels don't feel bad about saying that. Ah, in this day and age, that is almost to be expected.


I think that is the hardest part is like the psychological aspect of it, especially when and when a situation like that occurs where someone just like references that Oh, you do this show for this much? Why are you willing to do mine for this much? But yeah, like with your finance guy, you know all about inflation and bills and all that. But is there ever a moment where it's too much like, where is the ceiling like? That's all fine and dandy to say, Keep raising your rates. But when when does it eventually cap


out? Kept out is raising your


rates? Yeah,


let's say when we're getting stopped hiring you. But I'll tell you, it's gonna be hard to find that because there are. I know people who who charged more than ideo by the way they do a better job than the silly should. But they also offer different service is. But then you go and say, Well, we also offer, you know, we do an audio graham in the package or, you know they do package deals. So first of all, the podcast industry is growing. Second of all, the people who are do it yourselfers aren't your clients, but they're not the only people getting a podcasting. There are a lot of people getting into it because it's a brand builder.

It's a marketing arm of the business. They are now seeing that more than ever, the value of podcasting, even though the R O I is not there. The return on investments, not there, especially in the beginning. You're beginning months, but having that extra way to create content that then can also become a blogger post on your website, which gives you the Google juice and shows that you're an expert in your field. They're gonna pay for that cause it's Jim. It's making them a bigger expert in the eyes of their audience. Were there people visit their website, other business site.


You mentioned how podcasting is a good marketing arm for business people. But how do we market ourselves as podcast producers to get that business?


And I say we have to go back to that community in that nation, going to local events and conferences. There's a lot of bad juju around, you know, the word networking, but it really, truly is. For me, it's been nothing. It is the thing. So it's getting out there and talking to people. And there's a lot of introverts in the podcast studying business. I get that there are ways to be hired to edit for other people, so you don't have to work for a podcast story. You could work for a company who then gets the clients and and I mean, just just think about Daryl Darnell from Provide Cab Solutions, who has over 130 active clients.

He's not in every editing everything. He's got a team of editors, and they may not deal with the client at all because they have a project manager that handles, you know, group of shows and can be that median person between the host and the editor and the show's writer and whatever else they do so you don't necessarily have to go out and get your own clients. It's just I think it might be a little more difficult to prove you're of any worth to a company like that. Unless, of course, the other conversations. If you happen to talk to Daryl Darnell and say him pretty good Ah, let me prove it to you. And you can actually prove it to him somehow. Maybe you've got your foot in the door to get hired as an editor just to edit and not to market yourself not to deal of customers and clients and all that stuff. Would you consider yourself an introvert? I used to.


You used


Thio. That singer I used to Yeah, we'll change. All right, So we're gonna get in a faith based talk here. Another thing. You're ready. I'm putting my god head on here, okay? It's a mission. I don't know why podcasts editing now was my mission before the podcast or the financial coaching was and it forced me to get out of my shell and go out and do stuff because I knew I was helping people and I wasn't put on this earth just to consume and and you know, sit in the sunshine and bask in the rays. We can do that, too, but I was here to serve people, so he put me on this Earth to serve people. I got to get out there and do stuff and help people.

And and that's why you'll always see that I'm giving. I get. I have. I've been so blessed in my life. There's I want for nothing. Ah, it's because he's blessed me. It's because I'm giving. I'm always giving the people and I'm not doing it to get so I've always been a giver, and that's that's kind of how I think people like to be Ron givers. And there's another marketing tool. Always give. Give your time, your talents, your service. Yeah, be helpful giver. So that's kind of how I got in my introvert shells because it forced me out of it. I had to. Nobody helps people when you're sitting in the corner.


Interesting. I feel similarly because a small part of why I wanted to start a podcast was to kind of get over that fear of putting myself out there and talking to people because, ah, for the longest time like you were. You were saying that if you didn't want to directly interface with clients like perhaps try joining a company. And that's kind of how my story has played out in that it just became a chore, reaching out to people like person after person trying to work with them. And it kind of had a small psychological effect on me. And just like like dealing with rejection like, I guess back then, I didn't really know howto deal with that in a healthy manner. And I really think podcasting has been the thing to help. Not only like as a listener or an editor or now a podcaster is just all around. This industry is very. I think it's a very beautiful industry because there is so much opportunity to help people. And you never know the impact that just having a conversation can have on people


and that people can relate by listening to your podcast for free on their smartphone, which is always in their pocket. Amazing. They have to find the show. You just have to relate to them as a host for some senators, so I never get to deal with that. But you say you start a podcast theirs. But you said you started podcast to get out of your shell. I think there's better ways than putting yourself through going to create a podcast, which is can be painful, you know, taken improv class for a couple of months and you'll solve that problem. But something podcast is kind of like beating yourself up, over and over again every single week, trying to get us. No doubt it's worth, uh,

it really is. Yeah, I think there's a lot more benefits than just not being an introvert anymore. And there's up speaking opportunities. One of things that also was a benefit from this is actually before he became a pipe guest editor because I was always talking about the medium of podcasting and how that can help a person grow their business by having a podcast. I got to speak at local meet ups like the small business group, the self employed group, and that's just again it is. It helped me, too, not just get out there out of my shell, but it helped me to spread the message of podcasting, which I believed in. It also made me in the eyes of these people. The expert. Not that anybody hired me,

but it also helped me too. Be able to speak on this a little bit better, cause I practiced in front of a group talking about podcasting and made me create, you know, talks about podcasting, which actually I end up doing now every single year at fin con I get to do a workshop. This year was a mind map. Your podcast launch and it went from everything about how do you pick the name of your show too? Now, we submit R. R s s feed to apple and a little bit beyond that. All those you know, A lot of those slides are very similar to the ones I created when I did these little small meet up group sessions.


I have to say you're very well spoken. I don't think you've said a single, um, this entire


really far. Well, you'll hear it when you go back and edit this. Do


you think editing podcasts has played in tow like being conscious of how you, ah, like, verbally present yourself? Because you are very well spoken and very relaxed, and I almost feel almost feel is if a lot of that comes from just hours and hours and hours of of editing and like picking up on all those vocal tics and


just just No, absolutely. I recognize I recognize verbal tics after editing someone for maybe five or 10 minutes. But then I also know what I have. In a lot of times, I start my sentences with words, So eso no. Oh, yeah. Well, if I was interviewing you, the first word on my mouth would be so so next question. So this is so every horrible. There are a couple things as we're talking here that I just I could hear myself going back around in a circle and the listeners might even noticed that all he said that he said it again. Talk about service. He's serving seven service, you know?

So could you edit some of it out? Make it less annoying? Sure. Uh, but yeah. Note by editing up people and hearing all these different ways that people speak and we might classify them as crutches. And it's just the way people speak. Um, obviously, is not a crutch. It's more like just crap. We gotta cut it out. But you get the one who starts every sentence with That's a good question there, just formulating their question. And they're not ready to give up the mike yet. They want to hold on to the Micah's.

Okay, I'm formulating my answer by saying that's a great question. Um, uh, yeah, I've got verbal tics. I just try not to use them.


What do you prefer hosts do? Uh, instead of using O r. That's a great question. Do you prefer silence or what do you? What do you think is the best way to begin to correct that,


huh? That's a great question. No, it's actually very interesting thinking about it. I don't want to. I struggled this too when I hear one of my clients like I could coach them through that. But how do you approach it saying, Stop saying I'm all the time e can't or and um or Yeah,


well, I've also noticed something, too. If you bring it toe like top of mind awareness, people almost seem to do it more


so or or you're talking about it. And then the there five minutes in the realize they're doing it to go. Okay? hold on and then their entire demeanor on the microphones. Uh, and I do not want that to happen. I don't know how to thio coach people through changing and then they realize, Oh, I've been doing my old habit again without making you know they're they're getting excited about their topic. They're talking, talking, but like but like like and then they realize I'm saying But like again, too much hold on. And then he stopped and they start over again. Okay, well, we were just talking about it.

It's You've just taken the speed down to 10 miles an hour instead of 70. They're running at, and that's not good for the listener. So I you asked a question similar to howto How would I want a podcast host? I can't advise that now. I don't know how I'm not a a speech like most specialised vocal coach. Thank you. See, I don't know the words I wouldn't know. How did it? Maybe somebody in the listening audience can go to your show notes page and leave a comment. There's no some tips and tricks on what they can do to coach your clients to stop using crutches and course not interrupt the flow is they realize I'm doing it again.


That would be amazing. Imagine. Just imagine if everyone could be coached and correct all the arms and us. Well, let's let's take a sharp left turn. When is it not appropriate to edit a show like doing detail that it's because not every show really needs someone to comb through 70 80% of the filler content? But where do we draw the line?


I point back to what we were talking about earlier about friction. We're getting rid of friction now. If somebody has notoriety, if they've got, you know, seeing the public at their celebrity, something like that, I mean, you can't at its Bob Newhart. For people who don't know about New Heart is he has a very unusual unusual, but he's a very different way of speaking. That is humor. And if you take away his stammers, he's no longer the funny Bob Newhart. We'll know in love as Papa Elf, you know, in the movie Elf.

Uh, yeah, you remember the guy who was the dad of of Will Ferrell and Elf? That's Bob Newhart. And if you take away his Well, you know Ah, you know Sammer's. He's no longer Bob Newhart, and that's just takes away from his magic of being a comedic actor. You take away his personality, so there are gonna be times where you just gotta leave stuff in. I I think there's times when you can still fix some of it, and it still leaves them as as that person that they're there. Character still comes through, and that's what I'm trying to do is just trying to find that happy medium. Let's get to the point. Get to a faster get rid of the the intrusions, the obstructions, the bumps but without taking away the personality that's behind that voice.


Let's talk about video in podcasting, then, because I know here it cast were one of the one of the leading networks in multi channel podcasting. So we have a lot of clients that will film their shows and have even built out of these crazy sets specifically for their podcast. And something I've been struggling with personally as a producer for a few these shows is where do I draw the line between just doing a video at it essentially versus a detailed audio at it because when you're editing video, you can't really cut every almond. I mean, you can and you can mask it with different camera angles, but that's just way too time consuming. I mean, there's situations where it can be worth it, but when we're talking about efficiency, it simply doesn't make sense. But in your opinion, let's say we've got, like, an instagram influencer that has their own podcast and they're filming it,

and you're editing it with a multi camera sequence and premiere. So you just got, like, three camera angles and switching the camera angles. And what do you do with that audio? Because, of course, you're gonna mix it down as per usual, like you would on audio edit. But once you sink that to the video and edit the video, would you then take that audio and then edit it like a normal audio episode? Or would you just rip it? Then the audio version of the broadcast is just literally the audio ripped from the video. What would you do in that situation?


Well, the answer to your question is the number one answer to all questions in podcasting. Which is it depends. It does. If you've got a performance, a live performance, you're not really gonna edit that much. You wouldn't have to like if you saw. I know I have Stevie Ray Vaughan in my head for some reason. You know Steve Rayvon onstage live. You're not editing that. You're just recording, capturing the moment if in video or audio, all that stuff. But then, if you are trying to produce something more like a movie, well,

of course you're gonna different camera angles and you're trying to pose everything in the best light possible, literally and figuratively. So do you take the audio from that to make your podcast or to use the raw? It depends on what you're trying to accomplish with your show. I have some plans that will take their audio and then they'll take bits and pieces of it and use it for promotional purposes. But the pretty much it's long form audio, and they might use some video components to do something special. And it's not the full 60 minute interview. It's, you know, five minutes or something like that. You could look at it this way. The r o I on podcasting in my opinion when you gotta listeners listen to you for a while the R O and listeners 10 times that of a person who reads a blogged, huh? And bloggers easier right then then do a podcast. Just it is At least you know it's less time consuming.

It might be a little more. I hate blogging. I hate writing, so I maybe I'm just saying it cause you buy. Yeah, I mean, I love blogging, but it's just I hate writing, but it's easier to write, I think, than to do a podcast podcast more difficult. Some people don't just run off the mouth, and that's fine. But then you got to do all the post production planning for it as well. But then you think about video Were 10 axing the complexity again? Right now,

we have the lighting, and we gotta make sure the audio's capture without having a mic right in front of her face. And this, that's, you know, the Joe Rogan experience. You've got to have that mike right in front of you. And if you do any cuts, well, now you've there's there's very hard. It's very difficult to make the video match exactly because you might have moved over a centimeter. And if you're cutting something out, you're gonna notice that. Of course, a lot of people like that now. In the videos you see,

it's the cameras bouncing all over from one sentence the next with no break. It's crazy, like on YouTube that are Oh, I might be there. And it's because you are now not just grabbing the attention of somebody's reading. Your blog's for a couple seconds. Or listen your podcast for 1/2 hour to an hour, but now you've got him watching your video. They can see your body language if the r o. I is there than go with video on. And then we got to think about repurpose in the audio or just taking the original audio. How do you want to use that? It really case by case. I can't answer that question. I don't deal video It also, Maybe you want to cut out this whole last five minutes? Uh,


no, I think I'll keep it in. I think I'll even say perhaps consider it like even if you need toe toe, hire out somebody to help with that, because out here We're seeing a lot of Ah lot of video podcasts picking up, and it's gonna be interesting to see how it shapes the future of podcasting because more and more people are listening on YouTube and


it's that crazy strange reason ALS band with for video, and we're just listening to it in her ear buds.


Well, not not exactly a lot of people, even with like Joe Rogan like, though they'll either have it like running in a different tab. Or it'll be up on a TV in their house or something, like people aren't actively watching it. But a lot of people are technically watching it on YouTube. And another thing I think is interesting is how quickly Spotify is catching up to apple podcasts. And I'm really curious as to why you think that is. And what do you think that will do for the industry?


My opinion on Spotify versus Apple? Yeah, okay, not video. We're not talking about video anymore.


We can


we can throw you too. Yeah, well, Spotify, I don't think there's any video. Do they know we got to go back to stab versus five? It is interesting, and I've always wanted to have a second player in the space for podcasting. Ah, the most recent stats I've heard from Lipson on their customers is Ah, Spotify is about 12% whereas ah, the apple podcast SAP is at least 50. Actually, I think it's a lot more now, but I can't remember the numbers exactly. I like that there's another player and I think Spotify definitely appeals to two distinct type of listeners. One is the new ones are coming on board because,

honestly, I don't even like the Apple podcast staff. I try to use it only because they still sink to iTunes on the desktop, because I have an old iPod that he used when a mother long walk the dog just easy, clip on and go rather than looking around the old, you know, the big old iPhone. So Spotify is capturing the new people because it's a decent app. Ah, they're already listening to things on Spotify. They've already know how to use it. It's already sinking to their car or two. Whatever Bluetooth speakers have got in their house and the other one is a lot of entertainment, I believe a lot of people listen to entertainment type or personality type podcasts on Spotify. Not necessarily the technical stuff, not necessarily the ah you know,

even a lot of the clients that I have. Spotify is not a big player for them cause you can get into some shows. We're talking about personal finance, investing in real estate, and it's not as much a casual, you know, sitting there casually listening to what you really kind of have to pay attention to it and to get the most out of it. Whereas on Spotify, if you're listening to a personality, ah, celebrity entertainment, you're kind of listening. But you're able to also then focus on other things a little bit more.


You're spot on with that, too, because, like with a lot of the influencer shows out here, Spotify is doing upwards to 35% of listening Lawson. And a lot of that comes from these influencers telling their younger audiences like Hey, find us on Spotify like they start with stratify iTunes and so on. And I think it's cool. I think it's cool. And from an advertising perspective, I'm curious to see what that does for the monetization of like everyday podcaster running just dynamic. Add insertions like spotted by does for music but for podcasts. And I'm super excited to see what that has in store. But I know you're busy guy, and I'll let you go. But before I do, where can people find you online?


Everything they want, They confined it. Steve Stewart dot m e that Steve S t w a r t dot m e. I can't get the dot com. He's owned it for 21 years. Ah, that others D Stewart guy. I had to get the dot me, or if they want to find out more about podcasts editing and get into a community. Goto podcast editors dot club. And yes, I grabbed a dot club domain guest enters dot com. Bill sent him right to the Facebook group. Of course, they can just search inside of Facebook for guest editors. I'm the only one that's got a substantial group there, and we'll just we'll be talking more about the conference in that group as time proceeds. So just Steve Stewart got Emmy for me or podcast editors dot club for the


Facebook group. Awesome. Thank you months. Ah, another edit. Awesome. Thank you. So much. Steve.


Hey, thanks. Bradley had a great time, Theo, Brad Bradley says. Brad, down here much, Graham. But you're Bradley.


That's the debate of the century. I honestly, I have no preference, but,


oh, no, I should, he said. Brad, it's down here. It's written before me.

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