Hi there. Welcome to season two of sales for found his podcast I'm your host, Louie Nichols. And every Wednesday I sit down with successful founders, sales and marketing experts to bring you actionable advice on how to learn sales, find your first customers and grow a profitable business. This week I am super excited to kick off Season two by chatting to Laurel a bitch on. We're going to go deep on a subject. A lot of founders struggle with sending cold emails that convert to make sure I had the absolute best person for such an important topic on the show. I reached out to the best email or that I know and asked for an introduction to the best told email expert that they know. And that's how I found Laura. She writes successful cold email campaigns for multiple clients, and now she's teaching founders how to get the same results for themselves. Stick around till the end of the show, where I managed to convince Laura to give us for F listeners Ah, unique discount on her mentoring and training, something she normally doesn't do anyway. Let's dive straight in. Laura. It is awesome to have you on the show. Why don't you kick us off by explaining how you got into hold

the amount in the first place? A radical. So I got into cold emails, kind of by accident. In my former career, I was a litigation paralegals. So I was helping attorneys go to try a ll kind of making sure all the ice without it and the teas were crossed and keeping track of all the details for them and part of my job. A large part of my job involves scheduling people like witnesses for trial or talking to people, that kind of thing, having them hunt down documents and as you probably Yes. Now, a lot of people wanted to work with attorneys. Even your own plant pages. I don't know. Um, so it was a little tough because I have a big aversion to calling. Like the first time I was supposed to make a,

like a phone call that schedule someone for, like, a simple meeting. It would've been like a two minute phone call, right? To be, like, three weeks to make the stupid phone call. Uh, so I ended up doing a lot of my scheduling by email, which served as like a double purpose cousin, the lawyer world. You always gotta like c y es or cover your buns. Um, so it's the email served is like a documentation so that I kind of didn't get in trouble if something went sideways. So long story short.

Along the way, I figured out how to write e mails that got people to do stuff that they really didn't want it. D'oh! In a nutshell. So when I quit and went out on my own and started my own business, I didn't have any network. I wasn't I wasn't working in the, like Law field nish. Um, there was not really any way for me to translate that network into my new business because I was working a lot with sass, and I didn't have any budget, As you can imagine. Sure. Oh, yeah. Facebook ads.

Not an option. I didn't want to start out unlike up work or kinds list, cause I was like that's a really good way to devalue your work right off the bat. So I used holding us like the only thing that I had, like my little special talent tucked in my back pocket had, um It took a while to get going, to be honest, but once they did take off about four months later, they really took off. I signed a $20,000 client. Main business grew like 1400%. Suddenly, all that weight white space in my calendar was was gone. Basically, um, I had I was working eight plus hours a day.

Hannity. My my problem now was, how do I fit it all in? How do I get it all done? And how do I get better It sales calls so I can get more clients. So I know cold emails work really well, the only thing is, you just gotta do it, right,

Right. Super interesting. So before I know what, we're gonna dive into cold emails today, obviously, and talk a lot about them. But some of the people who will be listening to this some of the people interested in sales, the founders, cold emails, sounds kind of silly. Maybe to us. But they won't even really, really, really know exactly what I call the Mehlis. So let's assume, um, an alien kind of lands on earth.

They're gonna land in America, obviously, because they always loved in America s Oh, they're gonna land there tomorrow on they ask you what called e mails are. How would you kind

of explain that? Good question. OK, this is why nobody's ever asked me before if everyone just goes on the assumption that they know what cold emails are. But cold emails convenes a couple different things, depending on who you're talking to. So for founders were talking about basically an email that you sent to a stranger. So not an acquaintance, Not someone that you have any sort of relationship, like a friend of a friend or colleague of a colleague or anything like that. Total stranger, and you send them a 80 mil and you're you're asking them to do something, and I know that's a little big, but that action is different for every business. So for a founder, maybe your action is Hey, would you try on my dental?

Or maybe you found that the action that they you should be asking the reader to take is, um would can I get on a phone call with you and we can chat about your problem, and then maybe I can present my my software is your solution, But basically, it's a cold email that you're sending to a stranger asking them to do something for it looks like kind of a selfish reason on your part because you're ultimately selling something, but it doesn't have to come off a selfish, and we can talk more about that.

Sure know. It makes all the sense. Um right. And I know we're gonna talk mainly about because you have this five step framework for I think, Colin e mails that work. Well, I'm going to spend a lot of time talking about that. But something that I like to focus on in the podcast is we have a range of different people listening. Some of them are sitting at home right now thinking about starting their first business sometime in the future. Maybe they don't even have a product idea yet. Never. You know, I'd like to do something in this space. I liketo build something that helps these people, for example. But a challenge they have is just, you know,

how do I get people to talk to me on tell me about their problems and open up on Dhe share with me so I could even work out what product I should be built right? And that's very different. The normal founder you think of which may be trying to make sales. Um, I'm trying to get, like, a sales conversation at the end of the day. So maybe before we get into the five step framework, maybe you have some thoughts on how founders who are really at the beginning of their journey, who they don't have anything to pitch yet. Like, how can they just get someone to agree to get a coffee with them or agree to spend half an hour talking with, Like, what kind of cold email or cold message should they be descending Germany Tips for that?

I do have some tips. I've actually been on the receiving end of an email like that, and I'm not. I'm not someone who takes a lot of meetings, so it's pretty hard for you to say yes to a meeting. Request email. But I said yes to this email, and I'll tell you why. Because the sender 18. He's the founder of Get Highlights, and he complimented me throughout the entire email like start to finish and buttered me up enough that I liked him, and I really wanted to help him by the end. So if you're wanting, basically all he wanted me to do was get on a quick call with him and give him some feedback on his software that he was building. And it was geared towards my expertise conversion copyrighting. So he was reaching out to me for help so that he quote wouldn't make the wrong product and cried. And that right there is,

like, super flattering. So if you can use that freeze in your mouth and explain like start off of the compliment explained by your picking the person that you're picking, like for example, h in he said, um, I really liked your LinkedIn profile. This story really stood out. I was like, Oh, thank you. I spent some time on that. I'm glad you noticed right? So right off, like he's got my attention and then on. And then he went on to say,

like, I don't really I don't want to sell you, but I would love to get your advice on this software I'm building, which involves, like even like conversion copyrighting, which is your expertise, so I don't build the wrong thing. So if you look at that like think about that sentence for a second, it's still lots of compliments, right? He needs my help so he doesn't build the wrong thing. Those air to compliments, flattery again works wonders on strangers. Suddenly feel like your friends, Um, and then he directly relates it toe,

like, Why I Why he's picking me? Why he's choosing me to talk to, which makes me feel special again, Slattery and also being super relevant. So that's answered a question in my head like What's in it for me? He answers it. Oh, I see why, why I should care because there's not a lot of conversion copywriters out there. And then he ends with, like, a really simple asked, which is, would you be willing to get on a quick call with me this week or next week and then thanks in advance like it's very easy. But just rely on compliments and do some research on who you're emailing so that you can put in those really specific compliments and it will work well, we're show.

Yes, that sounds great. Sounds amazing. Do you have any? Have you seen it? Like you must have seen quite a few of these kind of e mails in your your experience, you have any kind of any insights on what people shouldn't

be doing. Ya totally. I like you. Probably soon. I've seen a lot of bad, cold emails get into my inbox. I'm sure you have to. I'm sure our listeners have to where you're just, like, don't care. Elite. So first of all, start paying attention to what? They're what they're saying in their email that turns you off. And you can I actually keep despite our bad, cold emails, so that when I need inspiration for good cold,

I know I can look back through those ones that I've saved in my Gmail and see which ones I replied to, Which is kind of a sign that those were good cold emails, Right? So definitely, like, keep a slight file. Uh, but really, the number one mistake I see people making is they? They aren't being relevant to the recipient or the reader of their email. Sure. So it be like me writing you a letter. I have no idea who you are. I don't care that you work with sass founders. I don't care that you, you know,

live in Switzerland. I don't care that you do any of this stuff for that. You have a coarser and just right. You and me now or a letter so that you can scratch my back when you approach it. That way, nobody wants to help. You sure

makes a lot of sense. I think something I've seen just piggybacking on that is that a lot of founders they get so excited by the product they're thinking about building and the way they want to help people that they just kind of they can't stop themselves from just explaining it and talking about it, writing sentence after sentence about how they're trying to help you. You know what? They're trying to build on that kind of stuff without even explaining. You know why this is relevant to the person or why they're reaching out to them. And I think it comes from a good place. But a lot of people talk way too much about themselves in their early emails and not enough about you know. Why is this relevant to you? Why should you care

exactly exactly like, why is it relevant? Like the passion is often as like awesome. Like we need the passion in the email. But really, you don't need to even talk about yourself until, like the third paragraph in, because people don't really care about you. It's just human nature. We all care about ourselves. So exactly what you're saying. Like if you could be relevant and um, kind of explain, like how you can help your readers solve this problem that you invented your software to solve, like, kind of started it from, like,

the end and then go back and tell your story. It's kind of like if you think about like the movie trailers in a way, they don't tell you the beginning of the story. Like why Tom Cruise is on a plane holding onto the side on Mission. Impossible, whatever. 45 whatever it was. But you just see that he's there on that. He's trying to solve the problem. So if you can, if you can introduce the problem first and then kind of go back and explain like, Hey, I'm the perfect person to solve this problem. Here's why. I'm passionate and that done this. I want to share it with you or get feedback from you. That presents a little more compelling

case, right? That makes a lot of sense. Now, I want to move on from there, too, because I think we're gonna be talking like about a lot of this stuff. And now, for the next stage is well, write, it applies to both. So let's move on to founders who have, ah, product. You know, maybe they have a customer already. Maybe,

maybe not, but that they're going for those first couple of customers on. They don't have a big network like you're like many of us. They they didn't have that budget for Facebook ads or paid outs or whatever. So there, trying to do some cold emails or some cold messages, at least maybe, you know, maybe it's sent by Arlington or whatever doesn't have to necessarily be an email, but focusing on them. You have this five step framework for writing called emails that convert. Um, this is kind of the point where I just let you I just sit back and my my, my my commute, and let you, uh, kind of talked me through it. I think I gotta interrupt you and ask questions, if that's okay, but a little

Yeah. Okay. Cool. So, yeah, this five step framework, uh, it breaks down into the first stuff is a research into your into the person that you're emailing. So if you are, you have someone that is like, your ideal client or your ideal customer, and you could clone them. That's who you're writing. I don't know who that person is. That's totally cool. But do some research on, like,

who it is that you're e mailing. And so you can answer that question like what's in it for them? Because if you can't answer that question, then they can't say yes to what you're asking them to do because you haven't connected the dots between, like, why should they care? And yeah. Oh, I'll give you time out of my day or time out of my day to, like, try out your demo order to the learning curve or whatever. There's gonna be some sort of commitment on their end, but you have to make you have to connect the dots for them. Okay, So that Z, that's step number one we'll do a brief overview. I think of the steps and then I'll go into

death. Will also feel it's absolutely fine. Maria.

Okay, cool. So the first step is Discovery. The second step is the strategy. The third step is writing. The fourth step is testing, and the fifth step is optimized. Brooke going back to the beginning. The first step. Discovery. We kind of talked a little bit about it, doing research into actually who you're yelling. So if you already have customers that you cook, if you could clone, you would clone back anything and create more of those types of customers. Talk to them. Do a quick interview.

Ask them why they picked you versus your competitors. Ask them what their favorite thing is about your software. Asked him what kind of problems your software solves. And seriously, just have a list of questions. Um, and then ask the question and shut up. Don't say like silence is your best friend during customer interviews, and I know it feels really uncomfortable. Sometimes there's a lot written about customer interviews, so I'm not gonna go into death here, but I know it feels uncomfortable. Sit there with the silence, But do it. You will find out a lot more when you just let it sit. Um,

you can also find out other things about your customers. If you don't have customers to talk to or who you have is not like your ideal customer. You can do review Miami. So like going like cap terror, key to crowd and look at your competitors Look at like the ones I reviews. And like the four star reviews to get a good gauge of, like, what's working? What people like in your competitors, er and what people don't like in your competitors. Er, um, But really, what you're looking for in the reviews is like sticking messaging. Joanna, we've of copy hackers talks a lot about this.

So if you want to go and get deeper into this, check out her work on voice. The customer data Um, specifically the review mining. Um, otherwise, you can like, just do, like kind of a grassroots approach, which is look up, who you want to email. This works really well. If you're targeting kind of people in an organization versus like like I'm thinking like marketing manager or director of I T or something like that, where they would probably have a pretty flesh out professional profile on Lincoln. Right? Go do a little bit of Internet stalking on him and indulges that kind of like stalker side that we all have.

Don't be ashamed to admit. I know you have it, Thio. Um, but like, get to know who the person is that you're emailing, see if you can find a common connection point between you and them. For example, one of the cold emails I sense back when I was launching was to a company in Washington, D. C. And at the time my brother lives in that city and I visited love that city. And so I referenced. Oh, so you guys are D C and included some compliment. The guy wrote me back within the day,

and he was super friendly and super nice because I complimented him on the city and found, like, a point of connection. So see if you can do that. See if, like the person that you're e mailing has a black lab like you. D'oh! See if you can find some sort of connection and then then you go into the strategy, which is step number two. And that's where you kind of take all the data that you figured out about this person or type of person that you're e mailing. It's that kind of putting it together. The scene What? What fits? What doesn't fit If there's like a theme, if there's your kind of female in the same type of person? Um,

if you're not a really good way to, like, get some insight into people is to use, Let's see, it's the chrome plug in, for LinkedIn is called Crystal Knows. I'll give you insight into the personality of whoever's linked in profile that you that you're looking at. What? Okay, yeah, it's really cool. Talk about Stop Irish, but it's super cool, cause it'll give you hints on how to communicate with that that personality type like here's what to say, focus on maybe like they don't do emotional based decisions, so use fax use data used analytics to support,

you know. So in that case, you'd be using line numbers. You're cold. Email this satellite customers success stories.

All right, I'm gonna include that in the show notes, and right after we're finished, I would like to see what it says about me.

So yeah, exactly. Like a test. And then it's like when I did it. 15. So you can see, like, how do I communicate? Like, get some insight into you, which will help you in your sales to yourself. Okay. So step number three is writing, and at this point, you should have a pretty clear idea of who you're dealing. And, um,

like, Why? Why they should say yes to you? Because when you're doing the strategy point, you do want us to start thinking brainstorming of, like, how does you're specific solution solved their problem? Sure. How does it make their life easier? And then you're gonna need to connect the dots for them, right? Um, and help them say yes. So, like, I'm trying to think,

uh, like, uh, okay, so ever note, let's use a really common example, right? Ever know is like, you know, your brain outside your brain. Kind of, um So it kind of like lightens up bandwidth on your brain on your memory because it stores everything and then you can find the easily So the reason why you might sign up forever. Note as, say, a busy SAS founder, is that you don't have to paper your walls with Post It notes and then go crazy trying to find that one single post notes the hungry idea on bread.

Or alternatively, lose that idea because you didn't you couldn't find a pen and paper. So if you could even tie those two things like your your service, your product to what's in it for me or the benefit that will make a stronger, stronger ask, cause you're you'll help them see why it matters. Sure, so then, in the writing, you're putting everything together on DIT. Usually kind of just it should flow a little bit easier because you've done all that research done all that like like work and stuff. Uh, a really nice framework for for putting and cold email together is like use the compliments as your opener is your first sentence, uh, like flattering. But,

ERM up helping, say yes, help him like you, which all helps and then saying yes and then talk about the problem that you fix what you don't want to even talk about ourselves. Yet they don't care yet, and then usually in the third paragraph, you can introduce yourself and say Hi, I'm Laura, email conversion copywriter, and I hope you write better e mails so you can three extra revenue, whatever. But the way you describe what you do still tie it back to how that solves the problem that you want to solve for them. Okay, okay. And then end with end with your ask or your call. The action and the best way to do that is to make in question right,

because then it, like, stands out in the body of the email, and it helps people see that there used to be action taken. You're expecting an answer, and people like Thio get questions asked of them cause if that's another form of flattery. Okay, then you finally said in the email, which is like the testing that step for sure. And do you like micro tests? So send like, if you don't have, like, a big prospect list, that's cool. Something like 5 to 10 um,

sends of one email draft. And make sure you saw, like tracking software, energy, male, boom, a ring. Does that streak CR M does that bull for free. You can also use mix. Max, I think you have to get a paid account. Um, there's a couple others, but those were my favorites, right? Okay.

And then then then see who's opening your e mail? Who's not opening your e mail? Because that will give you a good gauge on if your subject lines working. I mean, someone's open your email or not working means nobody's over your email. So then it gives you a spot to start optimizing, which is stepped on percent of five. Uh, so then you can start tweaking and playing around. And once you get people opening your e mail, then you can start looking at like the body. If people are saying uh, not really interested, then something's not working in actual copy of your email. Maybe you're not linking it directly enough to how you know what's in it for me. Um,

but like test it, try it, play around with it. Don't be afraid to be different, like that's another mistake. I see a lot of people making like we're all a little scared to stand out, especially the inbox, but that's the spot where you should be standing out. That's the spot where you should be only in your difference like you don't capitalize last things. Okay, that's cool. Like embrace it bu And like, if you're having a hard time finding your voice, try a recording your email, unlike a voice app and then putting that, giving that into a document.

Eight. Google Docks Does this now On my way, you could have. Should I record yourself and it will transcribe it right into a document. It's very cool, but that will give you a spot to start and then you're not faced. Sure come. Yeah, you can. Also, you can also pick up some templates. I actually have a couple of templates that you can pick up for free on my site. If you go to laura Lopez dot com for slash templates, you'll get to, um, to call the male templates,

one of which I used ah lot during those first couple months of starting my business and you'll actually see, like, real life e mails within that. Pdf, too. No, just the template. So you get, like, a sense of how I put it together. What? It actually looks

like a thin awesome on. If you're listening, you can find that in the shadows. So the link through there, that's brilliant. So I'm gonna dive in the thing a bit there as well. So one thing I do want to touch on that we haven't touched on there is. We've been talking about kind of one called e mail so far. Yeah, but a lot of the time, uh, you may not get a response from that first email because they were in a meeting when they read it or they just didn't read it because it came in at the wrong time or ah, there could be anything that happens, right? A lot of life gets in the way all the time. So a lot of the time to see the advice to send follow up e mails, whether that's one or 50 or something in between.

What do you think about that? And you know, Jeffrey thoughts on, you know, what's the right number? Is there something different? You should be writing in them, Just you know, where would you Where would you start?

Yeah, that's a brilliant question. And the short answer is yes. You should follow up. You should send follow up e mails like? Definitely, um we all suffer from, like, over box inbox. Overwhelmed. Kind of. You know, there's you can't ever to keep up with it. I think Inbox zero is like some B s myth that were being sold. But anyway, that's another topic for another conversation. Short,

huh? But, yeah, you should definitely excited. Follow up e mails for a couple different reasons. Number one, it helps your recipient prioritize your you know, maybe your son, you'll follow up. Then it's sending the signal to your recipient that you see this email as important and is valuable enough to put more time into it by following up, which helps them see Oh, I need to respond. They're expecting something from And then the second thing is that with cold emails, a lot of times it's timing. Um, you don't know,

Like what you said. You don't know what your recipient could be doing at the time that your email lands in their inbox and and then over time, maybe they're like standing in the grocery store line, you know, waiting to check out and scrolling, and then their next up in line. And that was your email that they were reading. Life goes on, more emails come in and suddenly your emails number 102,000 whatever right in their inbox. So that's the second reason you should. It will bump your email up to the top. So, like what you say in a follow up email, it's super easy. Just simply reply to your No, keep it all in one thread,

right? Please, please don't like send a supper. Email. I've been on the receiving end of those ones where they're following up, but I don't know what they're talking about because there's no original. The reference is pretty awful.

Yeah, I should look in case that's not super obvious to people. Also. Why, If you've sent him an email by the bulk of the content is in there. On a couple of days later, you follow up on the business like there's no link to the original E mail. Well, when I'm reading that email, I'm gonna be listening to a podcast looking at my e mails on looking at pictures of Bush babies on instagram. So the chance that I'm gonna go back in time and scroll through my in box and find your email from before is like zero

exactly exactly. S o Keep it all in one thread. Just hit. Reply to your original email so that your original email gets both down and then you can do your new like your new email at the top. But, uh, kind of like it would look like if you were replying to someone s o keep it all in one. And then the added benefit of that is that your email now has that, like, coveted Ari at the beginning of the subject line, which also signals your recipient that this is, ah, type of conversation that, um that your email like, was deemed important enough. It kind of like makes it look like your email was deemed important enough that they replied the first time, but in this instance,

they didn't reply. But you're not faking it. Like I see a lot of cold journals where they put the Ari in the beginning. It's like the first email. That's a bad move that just that just makes me Matt. Sure. Um, so put your follow up at the top, right? And then it can be a really simple, simple, simple follow up which is like, uh hey, first name, uh, following up on the blow email.

Thanks, Laura. Right. And you can use that that, like, framework for at least a couple of your follow ups. If you want to switch it up, Um, just say, hey, first name following a and then repeat the call the action from your original email. Just stick it right up there, men. Thanks your name. If you have been following up for a while, like you sent,

like, five, maybe seven follow ups and you're you see that they're opening your email. But you haven't gotten a reply you can do, um What I think it's called Like the seven words melt the real estate industry popularized this email, but it works really well. You can do like, hi first name are you interested in? And then just put the benefit right. The answer Toa What's in it for me? Right after. So like for me, it would be Are you interested in three Xing your revenue using cold emails? True. And then you get an answer like yes, and then you can take them down the next step.

Okay, cool. Like, let's set up a meaning or whatever That next up looks for you. Where if you get a no, then you know. Okay, cool. I'm not gonna waste my time anymore. This person,

right? I love that advice. Especially about how to kind of close up there with just being super blunt around the value proposition. I want to jump in on that because I've seen a lot of people trying to do something similar recently. Kind of MME. Or more Early stage Founder's life. Just one mistake. I see people making all the time that I wantto talk about. Well, I remember it. Which is that a lot of founders will mistake the value like they will think there's talking about the value to the customer. Like, how do I phrase it? More is like how their life will be better once they have the product. Right? What you doing? What is gonna be better in their life after they have the product?

Ah, lot of people don't talk about that. So for example, three Xing their revenue, like you said. Instead, they'll talk about they think they're talking about a value proposition, but they're actually talking about work that the customer is gonna have to do using your product. So, like, every night, right? Nobody wants to use every note they want. Whatever. No does that. Nobody wants to input two DUIs and,

you know, manage them. So if you say, like, are you interested in doing your two DUIs would ever note, then people gonna go No, I don't want to do produce. That's the whole point of everything, right? So a lot of people make that mistake. I wanted to bring it up quickly. If you're suddenly called e mails, make sure you're talking about the value and not the

work inherent in your product. Totally. Yeah, that's a really great point. And to make sure, like, piggyback off that to make sure that you're not talking about the work usually like the value drives down to someone's motivations, which drills down, at least in my experience, toe like one of free motivations. One. We want to make more money three x in your revenue, right to you. Want to save more money? Oh, I could say, And you a lot of times I see this one being translated as like you save 10 hours a week,

but make it make it about the money because the dollar sign works? Wonders. Um, suddenly I want that, like 10 hours seems to thio imaginary. Almost so. Drill it down. Like what with someone's hourly rate beat. Like if they're building at 2 50 an hour. Or maybe, you know, it takes you 10 hours to close a sale, which results in a six month contract with a customer and their pain $10 a month like what does that look like? Hell, do the mouth for them and then say could save X amount of dollars. Then the third motivator is we wanna look cool t either our colleagues or our bosses or our clients or customers,

but we kind of want to just be part of the cool kids table. So if you can answer one of those, that's usually where your value is and not then you concise steps like, Oh, that's work and triggering that thought in your client's mind. Yeah,

right. Okay, Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. So something that I see founders a mistake. I see the make a lot of another one kind of jumping on a swell is going well into the course or they'll send me an email and have some feedback or whatever it is on Dhe. Well, you know, they say I'm I'm struggling to find my first customers, so we'll talk about Okay. Well, have you tried Cole emailing on their say? Yep. Tried. Called e mailing. It doesn't work. And then you dig in a bit deeper,

You say? Okay. Well, how do you know? Are you sure what doesn't work about it? No. Say Well, uh, tried it. A couple of weeks ago, I sent out seven emails and only one person replied, and nobody bought. It was obviously a massive failure. And it's not gonna work for me. I think we both know obviously that I kind of where they're going wrong. But a lot of founders do,

like, just don't fundamentally understand. You know what is when I'm sending cold emails? What's a good result? What's about result? What should I be looking for? Where should I be happy? And where do I need to spend some time improving it? Right. So can you maybe give some insight over a couple of campaigns that you've done, You know, what can people expect?

Definitely Okay, So first of all, if you go Googling this kind of stuff, you won't find a lot of data, a lot of numbers, because that the only number I found is like the industry. Open rate is like 2% and you don't find anything about reply rates because and nothing's working because everybody's doing cold emails the wrong right, so you won't find a lot of stuff out there. So usually what I kind of uses, like on when I told my clients, is I usually sat two news loves, and I know that those ones are going to people who raise their hand and said, Yes, I want to be on your list So it's a different audience, but at least it gives you kind of like markers. So for for that, that would be like a 35% is a good open rate for email marketing,

and usually you're not tracking like reply rates, but usually like a 5 to 10% click through, is considered a good click through rate, which can be considered a conversion so you can kind of like take those numbers with a grain of salt when you're using them. for cold emails. Um, what I like to let me back up a little bit because, first of all, like sending seven e mails and maybe getting like one response is actually a really good, um, a good start because one person took the time to reply it. And that's a sign in the road that you're on that says, like depending on their reply, that says you're either on the right track or the wrong track. But either way, someone took the time to reply you.

So you're connecting on some level. So something in your e mails work and to find out what's working. Gotta send Mormons on the e mails, right, because that's just not going. That's not going to give you enough data to figure out what's working versus what's not working. So definitely said more than seven. Definitely some more than I would definitely not send, like do the spray and pray approach, Um, where your son like an email till, like 100,000 people, uh, break it down, for example. Like when I was launching my business,

I think I said over 300 cold emails, but that was over the course of four months, and I know it's hard to send cold emails comes. You're basically risking putting yourself out there, being vulnerable, be invisible and risking rejection. So I like to think of cold emails as you're going up to the cute girl at the bar and asking her for a drink. So think of it as that versus you're not looking for her to go. Hey, let's go get married at the chapel on the corner like Sure, this is just a step in the relationship. So as like now going back to like benchmarks and stuff, Um, that's a hard question to answer. You can you can look at the email marketing stats that I talked about, like 35% for open 5 to 10% for click through and use those is kind of like sign posts,

but ultimately, how you know whether or not you're cold Emails working is you have to ask yourself the question. Is it doing what I needed to do, right? And if you're if you're like, yeah, like I'm booking a lot of democratscalls, um, and doing a lot sales calls, I'm you know, my calendar school or whatever, whatever that that action is that you need them to take if that's happening enough so that your business does grow with me and the answer is yes. But if the answer's no, then Venuto works more difficulty. Mills. Yeah,

sure, that makes a little sense saving streak up. That's so anything above 35% and you pretty much in safe territory on the open right side on 5 to 10%. You know, either clicking on some link or giving you ah ah, non negative feedback or applies is doing pretty well. But

also yeah, totally. And I want to, like point out, too, because I like how you said, like non negative feedback. Uh, not interested at this time is actually not a negative feedback. It's actually not a no, it's just not right now. Which means you could turn it into a yes if you asked. Um, that's cool. Like, when should I follow up? Or Winship?

When would be a good time for you? And then you can turn it around into a Yes, but it's actually it's not a no. Um, I'm I've heard that a lot from people like, Well, I got a lot of like none of this times. But that's actually

a positive. Sure, Yeah. I mean, unless you're in Germany, if you'll join me and they say no this time, then No, just leave it. Otherwise, you could have probably a love that isn't No, I haven't promised you. You know, people, I think I worried when they start sending cold emails, they're gonna get lots of nasty replies on you. Basically, never do.

You just don't get a reply unless you're doing it in German. In which case you really get a lot of nasty replies. You're gonna have to put up with that. If you're if you're driving, you'll be used to it. It's fine, Right? So that's that. That that kind of beside done. Um So what I wanted to talk about their quickly as well is there's a lot of smaller things around sending cold emails that I have heard various things about. I wanted to pick your brain on just to see what you think about them. So, for example, one thing I hear is especially when you're sending emails to I'm like B to B. Soto Business customer's perspective, business customers,

does it? Do you think it makes a difference At what time? And then one day, on what day you send those e mails on dhe. If so, do you have any referrals of thumb that you

tend to stick to? Yeah, Yeah, I do have a couple, like like to send b to be cold. Emails like to say three Thursday. Sure it is. And try try to, like, not do kind of a typical sending times By which I mean, like, 8 a.m. or four PM like when people are like either getting in tow work and they're seeing a huge inbox or trying to leave work, and they're trying to get through their e mails as quickly as possible. I like to aim for kind of like right after lunch, if you can guess what time their lunches benefit of them being happy after a good lunch. And they're, like,

ready to get to work and a little bit fired up Maybe, um, but if you're not getting any replies or opens to your e mails, try kind of Those were times because unfortunately, we're all, like, plugged in cause of those stupid little smartphones that we all carry around and we're all addicted to, and we check our e mails at like eight PM when we're on the couch watching a movie and are significant other ghosts. Bathroom. Suddenly you're checking email is your

board or just whatever. They pick up the phone as well. If they pick up the phone, my phone's in my

hands right away. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like if you're gonna get, uh so you can also, like, start guessing at those times like maybe, And you will never know if it's a hit or miss until you try. And I know it feels kind of like disrespectful to send an email at maybe 70 online with Saturday, But you don't know if they could be at the gym working out, stretching, checking their e mails like it doesn't you won't know until you try. So try kind of weird times. If you're not getting any replies or opens, try like late at night on the weekends,

you could try like late at night during the work week, I worked with a marketing manager shoes like always checking emails. It was unbelievable. 10 o'clock at night, sending e mails. 11. You know, just crazy times right. You don't know if the person that you're e mailing is that type of person until you send that followed email and you won't know until you try.

Sure, that makes a lot of sense. I like we say about the Tuesday through Thursday that but kind of charms in well, with everything I've seen as well that I would say like Monday morning is obviously people like a super busy with all hands, me things and that kind of stuff On then Friday afternoon, people have checked out mentally already. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I really like that line of thinking. Um, let's say that now for founders who are maybe most people listening to this. Like I said, there's no in between zero and 10 k in tomorrow. But if the people who are getting closer well, actually will ask you this. So I'm assuming for the people who are getting closer to 10 km Iraq. That's gonna be around the time that you may start thinking about getting some outside help in writing these 100 e mails. A my right, like when should someone start thinking about

that? Yeah, definitely. And that's kind of like the personal decision for a founder. It depends on you. Got to go back to that question like, Is it your zone of genius? Is this his writing whole emails What you're good at or is that something that you've had to become good at and you kind of don't enjoy? Um, if you could pay someone to do it as good or better than you, would you be happy with pains? I want to do that. And would you be happier freeing up those hours that you spend every week doing something else in your bits? So that's really what it comes down to. The answer is yes. Then definitely find someone like myself for other cold email experts to come in and do that for you. And you'll be a lot happier because you won't be trading doing that task, which is a huge energy drink, and it stops down on your creativity from personal experience. I know this.

Sure, not that awesome. On if people were interested in finding out more about cold emails or maybe even in, you know, hiring someone down the line, where would they go and find out more about you.

Yeah, good question. So you can find out a lot of stuff on my website. Laura Lopez dot com. They'll find a blend of different ways that I work with clients, depending on your stage of business for, like, early stage counters where you don't have a lot of say. You have, like under 100 paying customers. Um, and you just want to know more about how to great cold emails. How did doing better? Have an expert guide you through the process. I do have wakened mentorship, um, available.

It's called Convert those dainty nails. We would work together over the process of, like, three months and you would learn which is the best way to, like, actually do something because you won't just intake information passively. Sure, I'll actually make you implement this stuff, which is the best way that you'll learn so early Stage founders We can work together in that way. Um, if you have, like, you know, 10,000 m r, the that option and you're looking to offload basically the task. I have options for that,

too, like a monthly retainer where I come in and handle the whole thing for you. Or maybe you're just working on, like, one campaign. I can also just work on one campaign for you. So if you check that out my web site, laura, Locusts dot com You'll find all the good details there. So if you do sign up for one of my packages or just work with me, um, I am offering a 10% discount to all of your listeners. So if you just enter in the promo code s 4/2 and the four is the number, um, that will get you that 10% off. And just so you guys know,

like, I I was never, ever, ever offer discounts. So this is a really special one time kind of deal that I'm offering her students because because I really likes us founders. I'll be honest, like you guys are awesome and you make my life so much easier with the things that you invents. I'm a pretty big technique, which is why I like the SAS world, and what you guys were doing is incredible. And I want to help support you and help you get your, your software and your business off the ground and make it profitable. and see that dream come true for you.

Awesome! And the links toe that are gonna be in the show notes If people want to go and check that out, I'm gonna let you go in a second. But I always like to end with them because I have you here. And you, obviously, you have so much experience helping founders on dhe marketing teams with cold emails. So I'd love just get your feedback on the most common mistake or the most common mistakes that you see founders making with cold emails. Good question. Be a big thing just like the one that almost that someone's most likely to be making.

I would say it's be like, overthinking. That's, um, and thinking back. Like when I talked at my core comp this year at what a lot of people were bringing up. I let a couple like little roundtable workshops and stuff, and I'm thinking back onto what people were asking me about it. And there's There's a lot of questions because Founders Air really do you tell oriented, usually pretty analytical, so they want to make sure that they get it right and the first the first go around, right? Right. We're all scared of making mistakes, and that's that's just part of the cold email process. Unfortunately, so I would say,

Don't let Don't let the fear of rejection hold you back from sending a cold email. It is hard. At first, I I totally been there. It was so hard for the first, like, 50 cold emails, but I set myself a goal. But every week I was sent 25 cold emails, and I held myself accountable to sending 25 cold emails a week when I first launched, and so over time with practice, that fear went away. And it was just something that I did every day. That's just what I did. It wasn't so scary. Um,

and it kind of like thickened my skin a little bit. So I would say, if you are thinking about sending cold emails were you are sitting holding ALS and you find yourself feeling nervous or needing to get like everything checked off for perfectly, either. First go around, just know that it won't go perfect. The first go around, and that's normal, and that's the only way you'll get a good cold. Email is if you send it out and you test it, you risk that rejection and then you do it again and again

and again. Awesome. Well, I'm gonna let you go on that kind of uplifting you. Yeah. So, Laura, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. And what people through cold emails w links in the show. Notes to everything we've talked about. I'm gonna let you go and have a great weekend. Thanks. Thank you so much. That's all for this week's episode of the Sales Found his podcast. If you're struggling to find your first customers, put together a profitable business. Why don't you head on over to sales for Founder's dot com,

where you can get on the early bird wait list for the sales, have found its course in the course, you'll learn everything you need to know about sales to go from 0 to $10,000 in monthly revenue, featuring actionable lessons from myself on the best experts out there, including today's guest, Laura on Dhe. If you enjoyed the podcast, it would be awesome if you helped other people just like you to find it by leaving a quick five star review in your podcast up of choice. Thanks. And see you next Wednesday.