hello. Welcome to another episode of The Hilary podcast, where we metaphorically and almost always physically jump into the Wayback machine to discover the past lives of previous funders of companies and unlocked lessons, they learned that you can apply to your business. I am Brendan and Joko. And on this episode, I'm very excited to be joined by my Carson, who is defender of Humbly, the parent company of Procter Area, a Web site that allows its users to back order and place auction bids for expiring top level domains. In this episode, Mike and I discussed the legendary $20,000 purchase of a very rare three letter domain. How Mike Almost sold his company on a whim and the ongoing Internet debate that surrounds Proctor Io and its usage. Sit tight, get a notebook ready and thank you again for listening. This podcast wouldn't be possible without the help of our friends Over at Referral Hero. The all in one platform could design and run flexible referral programs that grow your bottom line.

If you're tired of wasting money on Facebook ads or writing tons of content that never rank on Google but already have loyal customers you should definitely try a referral program. The Dollar Flight Club grew its business by 13% and holiday pirates added 300,000 emails in less than a month after setting up their referral programs. The best thing about all of this is that you can get started in minutes with their no code widgets. And if you sign up today, you can get 20% off with the code fail ary to zero. Try it now for 14 days without any cost at referral. Hero dot com Once again, that's a referral hero dot com. Hello. Welcome to another episode of the failure podcast with your host, Brenda and Oko. Today we have the excitable honor of having my Carson here today on the podcast. Thank you for being

here, Mike. No problem. Thanks for having me.

So, yeah, I just love to get your own back gun. Or would you like to introduce yourself to, like anyone who's not familiar with their work? Yeah,

sure. I'm a computer programmer. Like I consider myself a hacker. I guess I also have this entrepreneurial streak, and I'm pretty introverted guy, so Yeah, I've always been interested in computers since I was a kid way back in the day, like I didn't even have a hard drive on my first computer. Remember when we got our first hard drive? We went to the store, and but I think it was like, I don't know, 20 megabyte hard drive, but yeah, I just loved computers. I was lucky. I always knew I wanted to do computers.

And so I was lucky that I always knew I wanted to do that also, that it could provide a living, but yeah, I didn't always know. Like, as you get older, you start to realize you just learn more about yourself and I didn't know, like, for a while I considered myself a failure because, like, I saw, like, my other peers getting jobs that cos of moving up the ladder and stuff I didn't do that. I just couldn't fit in. I don't know. My personality didn't really work with that,

and so for a long time, I kind of thought I was a failure. But what happened is I kind of realized that maybe it was this entrepreneurial side or this hacker. I don't know, something part of myself that actually I kind of self selected myself into this entrepreneur side of things. And that worked out. So,

yeah, thank you so much for sharing. And I guess your love for computers. It pushed you to study computer science at college booster. And then you graduated class for Mandy eight. And then, yeah, I just wanted to touch base on, you know, like year appears finding jobs and like, you just put yourself into entrepreneurial mindset. From what I have are like from what I researched, you went on a college to co found wise hive, and then you were CT ever like you're at a found a role for about nine years before you left to do humbly. Was there anything else in between? You know, going out of colors before starting wise?

However, Did you just, you know, instead of going to industry, do you just, like start

Joan Company? Yeah. After college, I worked at a few different universities, like I worked at Columbia and then the University of Minnesota and then Penn University here in Philadelphia, and I just did some programming stuff for that. And then I actually did some day trading for a while. And that's how I met the guy I cofounded wise.

Yeah. Nice. And you had to describe it to, like, I like to say this, But like, if you had to describe why so I have to like a 10 year old. What did wise I've do you And like, what mission or what problem are you guys trying to solve?

I haven't worked there for a while, but, you know, we started doing, you know, we like pivoted. It was kind of started doing. It was like task. Like a to do list. Tests like thing. We could collaborate around that, but then it turned into you, could accept data like build forms and accept data online and then collaborate around that data. So it kind of helps you to make decisions about data, and you can build workflow around that and stuff like that. So it's I think right now they're doing a lot of foundations and universities and grants and scholarships and

like that less Yeah, nice. Nice. And then after that, you left to do humbly, which is the parent company for I think what? Lots of people. No you for? For park dot io. Was there anything else in between this or like, how did you get the idea to start? Humbler. How did you get the idea to start

parked about? Yeah, in my spare time when I was working at Weiss. I've I just started to get interested in domain names. I mean, I always liked the launch projects. Just build some projects and launch them. And to do that, you need a domain names. And so I got interested in like that. I oh, do means there was. Actually, it was me and my friend. We're going to start this one project and we thought the doing smiled. I io was a good name for it when we saw that it was expiring. And so we looked into,

you know, we read all about how the expiration process and like what happens, and we figured out the exact day that it would become available, but we didn't know the time. So I wrote a script that would just notify me like the second that it was available, and I was sitting down to dinner and I got a notification that it was available. So I ran to my computer and tried to register it but But somebody had already registered it. But that process got me really interested in tow. Like I found a lot of other cool domains that we're becoming available. And I registered some of them. And so, yeah, it is just like a hobby of fun. Thing is interesting to me, and, well,

I started spending a lot of like, I started spending his domains. And, you know, I told my wife I was like, I'm by the still mains and, you know, it's costing a few $100. But I'm pretty sure that there were set, you know? And she suggested I try selling some just to see if I, you know, I was right about that. And so I sold someone. Yeah, they did so for a lot more than I paid for them. Said Anna. I started to do you know, I thought maybe I could scale this out, and eventually the idea became parked

at Io. Nice. Yeah, and congratulations on that. I know, like I encountered lots of debates before. All like, Oh, this is my partner and I Oh, yeah. Congratulations. Unlike your success so far, so I don't know what I'm going back to this again. But like, if you have to explain what part data it does besides, like the introduction that you gave us if I had to, like,

take a crack at it would be like it allows users to, you know, backorder tell these And like, it also runs options for popular domain names. Is there anything that like I'm missing there any, like, element that you like the highlight

of my partner? Yeah, that's it. I mean, it's basically a service, so you can get expired domains. Like, if you notice a domain that's expired that you want, you can order it in park that I own weaken, try to get it for you, or some people Just look it on Park the Ohio for all the demands that they're going to become available soon because they expired.

And this is all done on, like a flat $99 order.

Fear it. Yes, it's $99 if we get the domain for you and no one else ordered it. But if more than one person ordered it, then it goes to an auction. A 10 day AKI.

Yeah, like I was just looking at before this but like these auctions like 10 feel like run up pretty, pretty high. So like you talked about on your twitter that Houston look heared one dot t o like that, like one, you know, one letter domain. And I saw the final price, and the auction was like $20,000.20,000 dollars in, like, a scent or something. I guess I just wanted to unpack that. Like, how much are you getting from these? Like auctions and like, I don't know, like,

I'm just very, very fascinating at the expense of, like people, you know, registering these domains like these very, very limited domains And like being able to pay you 20,000 to, like, six figure numbers for

these domains. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the nice thing about park that I usually it's it's wholesale prices like it's cheaper. Then if you got it from somebody who bought it, you know, hasn't domain investor who bought it? They may want to get more for it, but like park that I was usually like wholesale prices, so you can usually get less, but but yeah, that domain one dot t o. I mean one character domains are very rare, like, you know, it's only three characters and total,

so it's like the shortest possible domain, and it's also the number one. So, yeah, that one was a valuable on. But yeah, when it goes up that high, it's usually either company isn't really interested or it's just such a valuable, rare domain that people are willing to invest money in.

And are you guys like from the auction like I don't mean to pry, but you guys like taking a cut of the auction?

Yeah. I mean, our specialties like getting domains when they expire. So, for example, that domain one dot t o somebody else had that, and they let it expire. So then it became available at a specific time, like a month after expired. It became available at a specific time, and a lot of people and companies were trying to get it. And so our scripts, you know, that's our like, main things, trying to make our scripts as fast as possible to get it before

everybody else. Yeah, just like on the topic of that. Like, I love this story that you tell that thing you like, pull the body that you read about in an article, but like you were talking about, you know, like the beginnings of, like, humbler beginning the park. That, and like you had, like a German counterpart to is, you know, both of your, like,

optimizing your scripts to, like, be faster than one of the other. And like, one of you would get the domain. When are you gonna get another domain? And like you eventually, you know, met up and then, like, just talked about, I guess, top level domains and like, scripts. Could you talk a little bit more about

that? Yeah. Yeah. So when I first started, it was crazy. Like there was some really good domains that would drop. I didn't even need a script like, I would just register that. You know, I would just see when they became available, and I would register them. And I remember I did this 10 day meditation retreat like a possum silent meditation retreat. And there are some domains that we're gonna become available during the retreat. You can't have a computer or anything like that. And I was like, Oh, man,

I'm not gonna get thes. But then after the retreat, I checked and they're still available. Says, like many days had passed and they were still available. These really good domains so is funny. But then eventually yet some other people God, you wouldn't be fast enough if you just hand register them. And then some other guy had a script and I had a script. Yeah, it was this German, Susie, that mean this German guy were like, head to head on a lot of domains for a while. And we talked on Skype and we still talk. Actually e mailed him just a few days ago.

Yeah, he's a cool guy. And he's like, I think I mentioned this before in interviews like me and him are the only ones in the world doing this. So we have something so in common. And when I talked to him, But we did have a lot of things to come, like not just this stuff, like we like meditation, other things. But we're also competitors, too. So we're also like, competing against each other. It was a fun thing, but yeah.

Then eventually, I think I just It was more determined I cast than him and I eventually got to a point where I could beat him every time. And then that's when I watched parked out. I exist, sir.

Is he still around

today? Yeah, he's around. He did really well. He got a lot of really good domains of

early on. So you said uncomfortable.

Yeah, he's depend. How can I don't think he's doing a lot of getting you domains. I think he's just more programming now. Yeah,

I don't know. I'm still very, very like mesmerized by the idea of, you know, paying like 20 grand or like paying a lot of money for a domain. And, like, I think it's like something that's, like, become such a part of yourself. Were like maybe like, someone has, like a domain. Like I know I wanted Brandon dot com for a long time and like I've been always taking it every year till, like, hopefully see if I can get it. But like I've settled for,

like, the full name dot com. But yeah, like, I guess, just like digging deeper into that. Did you always know? You know dot Io domains would be popular cause I know you did practice io 2014. Correct me If I'm wrong. And then I know. Ah, guard I like if you remember those games, like, slivered out. I have lots of like dot io games started like becoming popular, becoming hot 2015 2016 and, like onwards Did you always know like don I owe domains would be, like popular?

No. No, I didn't. The only reason I got into dot io is because it was for my projects. So, like, I like hacker news a lot. I read that. I've read, man, I've been on that site for, like, 10 years and more, and I remember a lot of dot io don't mean it's where on there because a lot of people can't afford the dot coms because they're so expensive. So you know, a lot of them would go to these dot iose And so if I was gonna launch a project, either gonna be a dot com or dot io probably.

Or maybe dot ally, But so anyway, that's why I got into that I for my own projects. And I thought be cool domains to launch my projects on, so yeah, definitely lucked out on this way. That's how

it started. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. and yeah, I think it's like, Wow, I'm just Yeah, just like I'm sorry. I'm very cut off guard still, but, you know, it's super admirable that you're like, I guess, running all of this about a team like you've talked about Dislike parked out, being, like,

very, very just you and like you like. I guess there's no real need for, like, other people sends us like a lot of it is your script,

right? I actually did bring on it. I have a partner now. This was in June of last year. Yeah, For the 1st 5 years, it was just me,

but yeah, I guess. Like what? You know the addition of, like, a new partner. What's I guess? What's the air future like? What do you think? I guess Park, I like I feel like it's very self sustainable in that. Like, I think the remains were like, you know, continuously, like perpetually keep expiring, keep like going for,

like, these massive prices for like, these, like very coveted domains, I guess. What other features air like, What do you expect users to be able to do on park data are like, What's your future? Anything innovative that you can share with us that you're like looking to deal in pregnant.

Well, yeah, I don't want to give away. So yeah, when it was just me running myself, I would automate a lot of things. So it wasn't that difficult to build new features. But then I had two kids, two young kids, and now I have two young kids and I realized like I don't have the time anymore, like it's impossible. So it was lucky. It was just kind of good timing that this guy came along. Steve, who's a partner now, and he's really good. He's a good hacker and he's really helping a lot.

So it's awesome. I'm so excited because now he's like up to speed and everything, And so I think this next year 2020 we're gonna have some really cool things. Cool things come out, which I've been wanting to do for years, so I don't want to

give away too much, but yeah, absolutely. I don't mean to put you on this phone

now. That's OK, but I'll just give a hint. I think there's some really cool stuff around crypto currency and Bitcoin just the way that you can, you know, pay. You know, there's value transferred over like a protocol. And it's interesting because domains are digital assets, really? So I think there's a really cool way to combine them. So I think there's gonna be a lot of because, you know, you can buy things with Bitcoin, you can buy gift cards and, like, coffee and stuff like that. But when you buy a digital asset, you can automate a lot of things with that. So I'm probably getting way more that shit. It's gonna be some cool things.

Okay? Yeah, absolutely end like, thank you so much for saying. And I guess the next thing that I was like, kind of interested in, like, you know, like, going back to like when you talk about bringing on Steve like pregnancy. Oh, you talk a lot about like, you know, him being a hacker, like you describe yourself as a hacker and like you with, like, you know,

10 years on hacker news. I don't mean to like, you know, stir the pot too much. But like I read a bit into, like, you know, lots of hacking these posts on discussions on like what they think about, Like park data. And, like, I think like your initial early thoughts on, like, ah, failure interview. Actually,

you talked about how you thought you were like, you know, enabling lots of domain squatting like lots of just, like, letting people like So these things are like high prices, I guess. Like I didn't do this is a second. I didn't like count or anything, but it seems like people are pretty split between like, you know, they're congratulating you on your position versus they're very critical of you. Like enabling Dominus quarters. So, like, take advantage of people. Do you have,

like, a stance on that? I guess I hate, like, just, like, put you on the spot here. Like I hate, like, look for an answer where you don't have it. But, like, I guess, What would you say to these people are like, What do you say that, like, calm the masses? Quote unquote.

Yeah, well, I definitely understand. I mean, I remember when you smiled at island. Somebody else got that. I was so frustrated because, you know, I wanted that domain, and there's only one of that domain, and yeah, when I first I was starting to get these domains. I didn't have immediate need for them, but I knew that I could use if I wanted to keep them in case I needed it for a project you know later on, because there's such good domains. But yeah, When I turned it into this buying and selling domains,

I had to think for a while. You know, I had to think a lot like, is what I'm doing wrong in my domain squatter, Because this bad is this, like, ethically wrong to the and in the domain industry, there's like demand investors and domain squatters and Dellin investors like Buy generic Delaney's Like you know, time dot io R. You know, money DOT has a generic term that is valuable. That's a great brand. Basically, it's a great brand and easy to remember. And then they say, domain squatters get trademark domains like,

you know, Coca Cola or maybe somebody's name or something like that. And I mean, I think in any industry there's people who are gonna be, you know, more. I don't know how to put it, but like there's gonna be malicious E. But I think for me what eventually made me think. Okay, maybe what I'm doing isn't so bad, is that I thought, you know what's an alternative in a lot of people who think it's really bad? I think they may be frustrated because they can't get a domain that they want, and they may be taking it out on the practice of it. But another thing is,

if they could offer an alternative, you know, I would definitely be open to an alternative system that would work because, you know, if you say you know the first person, like let's say I have a domain and should I give it to the first person who asked, or, you know, what's the alternative method? Besides having a person pay a certain price that you think is a fair value for the domain? I just of a better alternative method because if you just give it to the first person, they might not necessarily use it or they might build something that's not very good. That dies really quickly, and, you know, there may be somebody else who could use it who have a better project for it.

It's hard to determine who's who should get the domain. To me, it seems like the best system. But another main thing that made me feel like this isn't such a bad thing is basically the customers, like a lot of people who are getting these domains were so happy. You know, they're really happy, like somebody something, a gift in the mail. Like all the people who I was selling demands to. They were very happy to get these diamonds, so I felt like that was so. Anyway, I guess I've personally come after some thinking about this, You know, I've come to the just should decision that I think this isn't so bad.

Yeah, I don't know.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I'm interested in learning alternatives.

Yeah, Yeah, I think that's like a great philosophy tohave for, like, you just accept anything that people would have. But yeah, I think I would agree with yours. Like, you know, I don't think Magneto's to better. Like, I think you've definitely reach some successful, like People are like, you know, going out of their way to send you gifts, et cetera. But I hate to bring up the past,

but like, I want to double back on that. You know, like now that park I was like, I would say, like, you know, 2020. Like lots of new future. I would like to say highs and lows and like in the past, you cop very publicly about, like, listening the company, unlike empire flippers, are like being you wanted to sell, you know,

practice Io because like, there was, like, no more motivation for you to start it. I don't want to pry, but could you talk a little bit more about this?

Yeah, that was actually pretty early on. I don't know. I think I just saw an article about empire flippers on maybe hacker news or something like that. Like I was like, Well, why not? Just listed, you know? I mean, I don't have to sell it, And if I sell it, maybe that's okay. Just so I wasn't thinking beforehand that I wanted to sell it, I was just I was like, Well, I could list it.

I mean, what's the harm in listening? That's what I thought. But looking back, I think that was a mistake because it just caught like it took up a lot of time, like I had to provide all these reports. And I had to have all these calls with these potential buyers and answer all these questions. And, yeah, it was a mistake because it just took a way too much time. It distracted me. And I recommend not doing that unless you are pretty sure you wanna sell and you wanna devote the time to that.

And I assume people were, like, actually interested in, like, buying parked it out?

Yeah, I had a bunch of calls and but yet nobody bought it for the press.

And I was like, Yeah, I assume I assume this was, like a very, very high price to, like, let you live comfortably, like, you know, the German counterpart that you had in the past. I don't want to, like, you know, sidetrack this conversation too much. But I hope I'm talking about, you know, like mistake you made,

like, selling empire flippers. Would, like, hopefully get into, like, the meat of the continent. Like you're like family, the filler podcast of like talking about a failed star up and like, how you I guess, transition Or like what you learn from that to go into parked out and humbly. And did you have, like, a failed star? I'm sorry that you like to talk about. I know this was like we didn't prepare for this Bill. Give you had anything on the fly and like we could just like,

Yeah, I mean, I had a 1,000,000 projects that Elsa, I guess one example is I had this one. I think it was letters that I Oh, and it was basically, like an a p I where you could send text of a letter. And then for a fee, we would send a handwritten letter thio the address that you specify, and it was kind of a silly idea, but it got some interest at first, like a blogger wrote about. I forget what block. But it was kind of a popular bog wrote about it. And then from that, some people tweeted about it like, but yeah,

I got interested first, but nobody really hot air used it that morning. You had a few customers, but nobody was that interested. So yeah, I've been thinking about this. So you do learn from failing. You learn what doesn't work. But you also learned from success to like with park that I Oh, I learned something. You know, this is what I hope I can tell other people so that they know. But like what I learned about park that I was that when you have something successful, it's a big difference. You can tell the big difference right from the beginning, then from something that's not gonna really work out,

at least for me, with my projects. Like like without letters that I, uh you know, I could have worked on it longer and tried to force it toe workout like to spend months and, you know, maybe year more like. But luckily, I just quit early as like, this isn't working. Let's move on to something else. And with Park that I was like within, like the first a couple days that I launched it. I knew this was different because there's a lot of orders coming in, and it's just a completely different feelings. So that's my suggestion for at least people like me,

like hackers, and is that just build a lot of things and then, you know, you'll know when it fails, and I know it's settled lots kind of cliche, But Lia fail fast, like, just if it doesn't seem like it's working and you're not passionate about it's not fun to you. It just doesn't seem like it's working. Then just stop and do something else. But you have another thing that's kind of interesting with Park that I have is that with the other things that failed, I always started with an idea is like Okay, well, how about something like this? But with park that I I didn't start like that. I didn't think Oh,

how about a domain drop catching system? I just was like it just evolved like it just evolved out of my interest. I was, Yeah. So I think that's another thing is just do things that are interesting to you that you don't even necessarily think it's gonna be a business. Just do something that's fun, and then keep in the back of your mind that maybe you can turn it into a business. So I think that's important.

No, no. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you so much for saying I think there's definitely are like a lot of people also glorify like, you know, like lots of people say, like lots of failure from our it's very, very cliche. That's a word people say you should, like fail fast. But I think in your case it definitely shows where you like. You just feel like projects, probably probably. And then you move into, like,

something that you'll actually interested in, like, you know, in the background that you can, like actually privet into a business. But yeah, congratulations on

everything. One other suggestion, I think, is that really was pivotal. For like, the difference between failures and not success was my frame of mine. This is hard explaining it. It seems a little like crazy kind of. But I believe this

like, absolutely we love crazy. Yes,

but with my other startups, that guy desperately wanted them to succeed. And I felt it all came from this, like, lack the sense of lack. Like, I don't have what I want now, and I'm building this to try to get what I want. It starts with this feeling of lack, and I think all that does is just reinforces lack in you, and so it. But with park that I own, I think at that point I got tired of that because it's a painful mindset to always feel like you don't have what you want. It's very painful. So I think eventually I was like, You know, I'm open to seeing things a different way open toe,

looking at this differently. And I started to think maybe I have the things I want to be open to the idea that maybe I already have it. Everything that I want and then from that park that I Okay, so I feel like that mindset is really important. Like if you desperately want something, it's almost like you push it away when you reach out for you pushed it away with your fingertips like a balloon with us. It's like reaching out for a balloon. You push it away with your fingertips, but because you're still reaching out. Yeah, I think a lot of that mindset if you don't come from a place of lack, like if you don't think I need to build this because I want to make a lot of money or, you know I want people to respect me or I want to build something that's great, like even that's like lack, like if you instead think I have, you know right now,

I have everything I want, and I think it actually, that's a really important thing for me. It was in the I think that a lot of that mindset is contributed to park that assets. That

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, Absolutely. Wow. Something that I wanted to like. I hope it's not, like, too hard of a pivot, but something that I wanted to move from his like, I feel like like you talked about, you know, having a 1,000,000. You know, failed start ups are like you have, like, a 1,000,000 of project like aside and like,

just keeping with the theme of, like dot io domains, like all of them were, like, you know, smile that io are like letters that I owe what I really want to ask. Like, did you always know? You know, you were gonna be a founder, like, you know, you were like Columbia. You worked at Penn University and, like, you don't have,

like, industry experience. Did you always know you were going to be, you know, founder of your own projects versus like, industry? Like was that something that you had a conversation with yourself? Where I was like I can't see myself doing software

and industry. Yeah, I think that's like what I was kind of talking about at first. It's like when I graduated from college, I was like, Okay, I'll get a job, become a programmer. And but a lot of these places, like companies that I interview it just didn't feel right. Like, that's why I kind of gravitated towards university. That just felt more comfortable, and I just felt is more along my personality. But I did feel like a failure because a lot of my peers were like getting these high paying jobs and moving up the ladder. And, yeah,

I had no idea. I didn't even think about starting my own company or anything like that. I just thought, why it can't I was like, I gotta try toe, I don't get it better. No, absolutely Well, luckily, I just kind of met this guy that he's kind of like a mentor, this entrepreneur in the Philly area, and I met up with him and he suggested we start a company, and then I realized from him that, Wow, this feels much better. This is like maybe this is where I fit in you know. So it was just luckily, like discovering that there was a place for me.

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the reason that I ask it like I'm just like, you know, relating your story to a lot of, like things that people reach out to us forward. Like a commonality between them is like Babe. Either don't find themselves having a lot of, like funding like industry. Or like they don't like, you know, going to industry. So they started, like, all of these companies are like because of it.

They learned so much through, like failure. And so, like, I just wanted to like, you know, get your perspective on, like when, you know, kind of like you're like onto something like when you know, you should start a company for slut goddess industry. And, like, I guess what I'm like going to push forward here is like to ask your advice on like, I know you've given, like,

a lot of like a bounty full of, like, you know, like don't look for success or, like, just come from a place of lack, But like if you had to give, like, I guess Mike out of college Mike are like anyone who's, like, in your position, who doesn't feel like they have to go into in this shit. Like any advice. Unlike failure, like just like being, I guess. Okay with failure. What are some things you would say? Yeah. I hate to put you on

this. Well, yeah, You know, it's an important saying because I hope to teach my kids this tis like, it's a good thing. You know, failure is a good thing because he grow during that time. It humbles you, you know, It humbles you. That's really important thing, I think is the hope of you and you grow from it. And so yeah, I remember when I played, like, tournament chess when I was in high school,

and I always the gains that I lost, you know, I would study them, and you'd see where you messed up and stuff. And so, yeah, I think failure. You can learn a lot from it, but I think it's just, you know, everything success. You learn a lot too. Though I learned that, like success, you learn what works failure. Learn what doesn't work.

Success. You learn what works or you can read about from other people who had success and learn what worked for them. But so, yeah, basically failures. Good. It's like a Taoist mindset or something. When failure comes, it's good when success comes. It's good. Also, everything is enough here to

help you. Yeah, absolutely. And, yeah, this is like a curveball. But, like, this is a user submitted question, but besides dot Io What was your favorite tail? D like this idea. Besides that,

I, uh Yeah, I guess I was thinking about that If I launched a project now well using. Yeah. If you can get it dot com, that's good. But they're hard to get because, you know, people have been domain. Investors have been buying them since, like, 1995 for something like that. So, yeah, it's hard to get those, but if you and that's good, but yeah,

I would probably launched dot com or dot io. And if I couldn't do those, then I don't know yeah dot a eyes becoming popular. I mean, I guess is it don't mean investor dot a eyes. Probably good to get into, but without I Oh, it's like you can read, release any tech project on that kind of hurt anything. You know, almost anything. It's so generic. But, hey, you

have to do something. I

s Oh, I don't know if it would match the projects that I'm launching necessarily.

So, Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. From, like, a domain investor's standpoint, Like coming from like a day trading background. This is advice for anyone who's listening to this by and Dani, I, you know, short dot a ourselves off by low. So high. Yeah. Is there anything else you'd like to, you know, promote?

Because I want to use this, like, timeto like, nominally get you on the podcast, but also, like, have you, like, say anything that you like People like Look at it. I'll say anything you like people to

read. I guess if people are interested, they kid sign up for the newsletter on park dot io and well, amounts the features that we're raising then, but yeah, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm very, very excited. I know you gave away, you know, a little bit too much that, like we might sensor, like you might have to admit. Yeah, I'm very excited to see what you know. Depart now has, like with integrations with, like, you know, Blockchain and payments.

Yeah. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, Mike. Thank you for, you know, sharing your insights on, like being a founder being like being a failure. I mean, like, failing Sorry. Like failing failing start ups, lots of failed projects. And, like with, like, lots of your success, congratulations. Like success. Thank you for your being represented.

Podcast. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Thank you for tuning in to this episode of the Hilary podcast. I've been Brendan Handle Co. And once more, I'd like to thank our friends over at referral Hero for making this podcast episode possible. If you're looking to grow your business organically through word of mouth, make sure to check out their tool that allow you to create and grow a referral program within minutes. More than 7000 companies are using it already generating over 30 million leads. And now you can get it to for 20% off with decode fail ary to zero. Try it now for 14 days without any cost at referral.