on this episode, Living legend Ray Dalio stops by This'll is the Gary V Audio Experience. Everybody, this is Gary, they nerd Chuck. And this is the 2 75 of the Ask Gary V show. And I'm super fired up about this episode and let me explain to you why knowing my audience, I have a feeling a lot of you are about to be exposed to an extremely interesting gentleman. More importantly, I think he's gonna have disproportionate impact on a sector of you because I do think it's coming from an angle that I would argue has very similar seeds. Dough, I think what makes me successful but comes from a completely different angle. And I think that's exactly how you tend to get results. And so Ray Dalio, please, first and foremost, allow me to thank you for being

on the show. Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here.

Number one. I'm impressed and I want to make sure everybody checks us out. You are hustling, which excites me. You are showing up in all sectors on all sorts of places. I respect Tim Paris's podcast, other places that nature. And then, when I Look at Bill Gates and Tony Robbins and Arianna Huffington and Jamie Diamond and Mehmet Oz and Reed Hastings. The Roll index of quotes for your new book, which, by the way, I just told Ray something very important. I do not read, as all of you know, they when I make the joke that I've written more books than I've read. I'm getting dangerously close.

But the few times I do read is when I'm on vacation between December 20th and 24th when I go off the grid and I will be reading this book, some excited now. So you guys know that's happens because my team is working with him. And the and the vibe that Lindsay and handed the rest of team Molly talk about. This project continues to build on the fascination that I had when we first met. But the the books buzz and more importantly, the reaction because I like to watch people. I don't consume content, but I consume people's reactions. The reactions to the concept of the principles and the and the book itself has been overwhelming. I feel like you had great ambition for this project. When I met you. How has it been going before I get into your origin story? How do you feel about the launch of this incredibly important project?

Judge it by the thank you's I get, you know, social Media. Yes. Getting Bassett amounts all the time. And my mean, my goal was to convey to people things that worked in my life. I was very lucky enough. And, I don't know, I learned by a lot of mistakes a lot of things that made me successful. And I wrote those down year by year, all these principles every time I would make a decision. So there was a big bunch of those, and I shared them with a lot of people over a period of time. Three and 1/2 1,000,000 people at one point on, uh uh,

social media downloaded. Oh, my God. A lots of thanks. My goal was to help other people be successful. And the reactions have been thanks and appreciation. So I feel like I feel great about it.

So what? What has been the biggest surprise to the reaction of the book from whether that is the masses saying x or somebody that you talked about this with privately over the last 10 years, said why? Or somebody stopped in the street? Or this one quote that you never expected, like as a net score. What has been the biggest surprise

to you on the reaction, the book, the getting the concepts. Okay, so let me just explain the context. Every time I made a decision, I would write down the criteria for making those decisions. So this is a bunch of principles that I've acquired over a period of time. Those people then started to learn the benefit of that. And then it caught on for me in my life because if I knew those principles and I could communicate with those principles, then I knew that I could communicate with you if I could have partnership with you any relationship that I had, whether it's a family relationship or whether it's a business, and then I could build an idea meritocracy, in other words, where the best ideas would win out s. So there was a process of building these principles, writing them down,

making them clear, and then taking those things, and we built them into algorithms so that we could have the computers make decisions, that whole notion of how to be operating differently with principles, not just with decisions that I didn't know that I would be able to convey. And now people are starting to think in terms of principles. And I think it has a big effect, like, what are our principles of our country? We have common principles. Do we have different principles? So I was very surprised or very pleasantly surprised. The people are understanding the linkages about how that systematic decision maker you principal decision

making works. Were you worried that it took high intellect synthesizing? And so when you say surprised, pleasantly surprised, you were worried that you wouldn't be able to articulate the simplicity and then the masses wouldn't be able to consume it. And and that's

been exciting for you, I said in the following ways. I think that people are so caught up in making decisions, but they haven't thought about principles. Okay, now that's a different way of thinking. When you start to realize that everything happens over and over again and you have a principle, let me be clear what I mean by principles, right? It's how to deal with a certain thing that happens over and over again. Effectively. You can have principles for skiing. You could have principles for parents. Think about principles for investing, whatever that is, and the issue of being able to understand. It's another one of those, yes, that you start to see something and you say it's that species

of thing pattern

recognition, yes, and connecting it to the underlying principles. Because then if you realize that there was a limited number of species up of things that gonna happen to you and they happen over and over again, you can cut the kind of go to that species you say. This is that species of thing. How'd oh, I deal with that thing? And by being able to have that principle that is very clear to you and make the connection between that thing and your decision and you do it over and you refine it over a period of time and you communicate it. It's a very, very powerful way of operating. And because I think we're in a different world now that we were in a world where it principles that bound us together typically came from religion. In other words, a Judeo Christian background. And we say, What are the principles that bind us together as win as religions than fade in our path? Yes.

And our history? Yes, with the religion has become less important. Yes, where do we learn principles? How do we get principles? So we're now an environment, I would say, which is a low point in terms of principles. If you ask them, what principles do you have? And if you were to compare those one man's with another's, I understand. So how do we? So the notion of being able to move too principled thinking toe have people articulate it and then to compare it and then to evolve. I think that we're going to evolve so that we, as a group of people, could say, What are our principles? And then do we Are we bound together by those

principles? Do you apologize? Do you believe things like the 10 Commandments or the bill of Rights or principles? Sure. Do you believe that there is vulnerability in the interpretation of

I think that there is the absence off. In other words, when we could say the interpretation, I don't think those people is sitting there and going off the checklist of the 10 Commandments or the Bill of Rights and then saying that I think they're lost, right? And I think that religion is that element of religion. And by the way, I don't think that's a particular problem. I think that each individual has now got to determine his own principles. And so that's the notion that I'm very excited about, Because when will they come along? And they're saying Now Gary writes down, What is Gary's principles?

Principle number one, Michael Jordan. Jordan is a bad person. Okay. Thank you. Uh, I'm a Knicks fan. 42 years just to give you some context, right? No, but I I understand, Right? Like my principle for something, I think as you're talking, I'm like, right. It's like my belief that why not treat life like a marathon, Especially in the financial sector. Everybody treats it like a sprint. If you're gonna be around, marathon characteristics are better.

Why? Well, Gary's got his way of succeeding. Yes. Okay. So if you're successful person, yes. There were certain things that you did to make decisions. And if you go slowly and you're right, down, down that and you say now, when I'm in this situation, I make that decision that way and you collect those principles and you get them principles of the formula for success and by getting people to think about what are their formulas for success, Get them from wherever you can. These happen to be mine. I was lucky in that. I,

you know, like yourself. I started out with nothing, right? And and then I stumbled my way along. And then, over a period of time, um, I became something more than nothing. And so I learned these things, and I'm at a stage in my life where I wanted to pass those along. As long as I can continue to get other people to think about what they're, what are their recipes for success? Then that's what how much

the self awareness and empathy play into this in the ability to extract

out of you your principles. Well, I think in each person's case, self awareness is a big thing. There's two parts

of our blame, your extremely self aware

I try to be.

I knew certain

things opinion. Okay, so phrase it the following what helps me get my ways is the connection of my emotions with my intellect. In other words, when we say aware there's a subconscious part of our brain, I say that there's to use right. There's a conscious part of your brain. That's the thinking you. And then there's the subconscious that you don't know and by being able to bring those two things and make the connection between them. So if you feel something and it's coming up and you start to articulate it, then you're connecting it with its intellect. If it triangulate, in other words, it. Yet the underlying psychology emotion is in sync with your intellect than you move forward. What's helped me a lot personally is meditation, transcendental

meditation. When did that start happening?

In 1969. Okay, so okay, a long time ago

January, by the way. Real quick. Fun fact. January 12th 1969 is the greatest day in American history. Do you know why? Right now, the day the New York Jets won the Super Bowl. Fun fact for everybody watching at home. So 1969

1969 beetles were We're going

came back. I have a funny feeling of how you stumbled into meditation

and probably with that funny

feeling, Yeah, but it's really interesting, and you started and continued your whole career.

I've always made it, and it's changed my

life. Can you tell me how often

What is the pattern with? Well, typically twice a day, 20 minutes each time. Let me describe

it. Yeah, I just want to hear you just

don't want go slow cause I want to make it clear that what happens is by it's a very simple exercise that you repeat your mantra over and over again. That's the word that doesn't mean anything. And what it does is it takes you into your subconscious mind. You're not conscious. You're not unconscious. You're in your subconscious mind. It's a Peacefulness, and in your subconscious mind, that's the part we're talking about is the second you okay, it it makes a connection between your conscious mind and your subconscious mind, and so it if that's where your creativity comes from. In other words, if you want to take up if you want creativity, it's not like you muscle it in your conscious mind. It's like take a hot shower and the ideas come to you and you grab the ideas, they come up from your subconscious mind, and that connection also creates your creativity.

So because creativity comes from there, so it gives you an equanimity. In other words, it's like a ninja. You can sit back, things come at you and everything seems slower, more in control, and you're in constant in control. So that

limited. I apologize, but I have to. I'm just go ahead. Can somebody be in that state constantly?

No. Okay, you go into it and you come out of it, but you can feel the difference. In other words, I walk around knowing that when I feel one way and it's different from the other and I could then say OK, I want to go into the other because that gives me the equal anonymity and that equanimity and that creativity

is power. Can you go into it without the mantra? 20

minute play. I can almost slip into a kind of it feels that way so I can carry something with me. But I'm not going into the same depth as that meditation

because because that part resonates with me tremendously. So it's interesting to seek. So I think I can slip into that kind of zone quite a bit. And I actually try to stay in that zone at all times. I do think through a pattern recognition and this conversation. It's how the things slow down. But it's interesting to hear you say deeper.

Uh, have you Dr Meditating? Not much. Okay, We'll talk about this at some point, I would urge you. Okay? Because you're a little bit like May I think you're a little hyper right? Yes. Okay. I'm hyper I've got I don't know what it's a d d or whatever it is. But anyway, on the ideas are all going through all of a sudden. And when you can then go into this world, Yes, and so on. It's unbelievable because it gives you that control over your mind. Like I'll tell

you, you, for every human's easy, doesn't want to share this. But I feel massively controlled in the chaos and speak. Okay, I I get more uncomfortable in the peace. Let me an example. I want music glaring at all. Like I'm uncomfortable in quiet.

That's your problem.

Okay. I believe you. I believe you.

That's your problem. Um, because you're not letting that you're not going into that subconscious. Mind your highly conscious you, would you sit down, you're there. You're going to be in a position where you're gonna get restless because I know what happened to me. I love stuff. I love stimulation and so on. But when you go into this other experience that you don't know what it's like yet you're going to find that all of a sudden you're going to get antsy, and that's signs that you're not in control. I understand you're in a world of noth. You're in a world of a lot of stuff. I understand when you go into the void, Yes. Oh, it's something else, okay? And that means you'll gain control. I understand you don't have control your mind. One doesn't have control of one's mind if one can't do

that right. I understand. I understand that it's the it's neat. Yeah, you said it was January 12th 1969 when you started, so I think it might be right. I apologize. I really want this because I think people are completely fascinated, but I want to set the stage instead of going all the way back to the origin. Your professional life that that, like at a high level I was aware of when we first met and others that are watching me now. But for the ones that don't what is your professional career? From the beginning, from literally the beginning. First day you actually worked.

What did you do? Well, when I, uh, when I was 12 I caddied s So I'm I'm an investor. Right? Um run. Largest successful investor, right? For those who don't know run Bridgewater Associates, which is largest hedge fund in the world.

When did that start?

19. I started in 1975 but I started trading markets when I was 12. So and

I really do apologize. You started it in 1975 November 14th 1975.

I don't know that the jets win, then to

know I was born on that day. OK, but just right, Neil. Another good day. Another the Great Crime Historic day. Great. And so Okay, in 75. But you started treating a 12. Why?

I caddied. Cast. It was a fancy place to

Really? I didn't write it talking.

I'll tell you, I was I walk. Talk. It was the sixties. This is when the stock market was hot and we would talk about stocks. And I would earn $6 a bag to carry two bags, $12 whenever I would get, like, $50 or more than I would buy stocks. And the first stock I bought was the only stock that I ever heard of. Here's my criteria. The only stock I ever heard of that's selling for less than $5 a share. And the reason I bought it was I figured I could buy more shares, so went up, but I would make more money. What a investment strategy. Right.

Well, 12 right? Early strategy. It's OK. OK, you built on top of that.

So what happened is well, what happened? Was it what happened was the company was about to go bankrupt. Somebody took it along, acquired it, it tripled. And so I was hooked, right? So I was hooked. I said,

This is easy. You remember

the name of the company? Yeah. Northeast Airlines North stands okay. And so I figured there's gonna be an easy game cause, like, you can go into the Wall Street Journal on Do have all these names like, I just need to pick one that goes up or one that goes down. Bond. Then I was just thinking up. Okay, so that's when I got hooked. And then I learned over a period of time that investing is not easy, Okay? It's an extremely difficult thing. And you have to be an independent thinker. The thing that I learned the most, which was the most,

was first whether you're, um, an investor or you're an entrepreneur, that you have to think differently in order to be successful. So you have to bet against the consensus. Betting against the consensus and being right is what you need to do, and that's not easy, Okay? And I'll tell you, when you go down that path, you're gonna be wrong, a fair amount of time. And so, in order to I know how to be wrong. So what I learned from this main thing I learned was to be an independent thinker and also to also have humility. Okay,

because the humility, the worry about being wrong is the thing that is a power. It gave me an open mindedness that open mindedness to worry about being wrong. T find the most intelligent people who disagree with me so I could gain their perspective. So not curiosity, that trick. So this is what was the most powerful influence. And so I remember I crashed in 1982. In the markets. I mean, meaning if you want the story, I'll tell you the story. Okay. Um, so I started the firm in 1975? Yes.

Okay. 1980 81. I had calculated that the, um, foreign countries at Lent been lent by American banks more money than those banks. Those countries could pay back to those banks. And it was two and 1/2 times their dire capital, and I calculated that they were going to default. That was a crazy point of view at that time. Very controversial. Independent point of view.

Time was the counterpoint.

Well, nobody thought you were gonna have this giant default and collapse. Everybody thought. Okay. Banks are lending that. It just wasn't unaware. It was like going into 7 6000 and 2008. Okay, people didn't get it. Okay, so but you're I have to be an independent person I did the calculations that went around lo and behold, on August 1982 Mexico defaults on its debt. Um, and this was a controversy. I get a lot of attention. I'm asked to test the urinals on that. Well,

I was asked to testify to Congress and to explain, explain to them what what's going on. And I was asked on Wall Street week, which was in the show of the time and so on, and so very, very publicly, I had said We're going to go into an economic collapse. I couldn't have been more wrong. This was the exact bottom in the economy and the stock market. I was wrong. That didn't pass through, okay? Painfully wrong. Can you imagine? I had to let go. Everybody in my company.

At that point, I was down to basically me and having to make a decision on what I would do. This is now seven years after I started my company, right, And that was the best thing that ever happened to me in my life. I mean, well, maybe my mind that maybe my wife and kids would be, but this was, in any case, what it gave me was the humility that I needed to balance with my audacity. It gave me that fear of being wrong, okay, that fear of being wrong and that fear of being wrong gave me an open mindedness. That was the bottom. That was then,

from that point forward, from 1982 to now, now we have 1500 people work there. It's been a tremendously successful operation, largely because of that gift of humility, and my attitude about mistakes changed a lot. In other words, mistakes. I began to think of, um, as puzzles that if I could solve the puzzle, I would get a gem. The puzzle is, what would I do differently in the future? So I don't have that terrible experience again, And the gem would be principal,

a principle of what I would do different in the future. And that's when I started to write them down. So every time I wouldn't make a mistake or have that pain, I would then write down those principles. So I develop reverse Successes are nowhere near as valuable a cz principle as as mistakes, because you're doing something right and it doesn't give you that doesn't give you the kick motivation.

What I tell my audience. I tell them that I secretly dreamed to lose everything. So I have a lot of people in this room. Everybody's smiling right now. I literally use audacity and humility. I'm listening to you. I'm like, Wow, were stunningly similar and that

this is the thing that a lot of people don't understand is why it's so important. They think successful people are like successful people aren't they think successful people are of these all stars. They're all knowing people and so on. I got to know the most successful people in the world and all that. They're not like that, Okay, they all have flaws that just don't have to compensate for it on the compensation is largely knowing what they know and most importantly, knowing what they don't know. And so when I'm hearing you, I think you probably learned the same thing I learned when we talked together. We convey, and this is true. It's most successful people. What you learned is you can't lose by an experience when you have a secret desire that you're talking about, that you might fail. Okay, it's because you're making different connections and you and I make in the same connection.

I go into an experience and I say I can't feel cause either one of two things is gonna happen. I'm either gonna have success or I'm going to have an experience that's going to teach me something. And so I'm gonna learn. And it's all you learn more from the mistakes and the pains. I've got a saying Pain plus reflection equals progress paying, plus reflection. So if you start to get that instinctual reaction that you have pain and you get past that moment because it's an emotional experience and you can't think well that clearly you pause and you get past that moment and then you reflect inequality way, and you write down your principles of what you learn so that you would do it differently in the future. Your life is gonna be great cause you're going to evolve. Failure is part of the process to achieve success. And when you re program yourself, you think that way, all of a sudden you're on that path and it's the opposite. That your talk, it's the opposite that you're taught in school. It's the opposite. That your you believe. Yes, you do. Successful people get it?

How much of this equation has to factor in your ability to contextualize feedback from the people that you care about the most? Oh, it's essential, right where? Right, I'll get you up here. In other words, it's the criticism. It's the

great. It's the key here.

Do you love when people criticize? I love it. Of course

you do. Of course

I love it. I love it so much. Well, I love it. I do. You know, I think I manipulated. I think a little bit of my shtick is to force negative feedback because I feed off of it so much.

Well, it does two things. It allows you, first of all, to get the the things that you might be missing because nobody sees themselves objectively.

Of course not. That's possible.

It's impossible. So not only to get the objective feedback. But you re define your relationship with the person because if you're if that person is carrying it around and they think, Oh, you're screwed up this thing and they're having a bottle it up, Yes, you're gonna have a lousy relationship with them. The ability to speak frankly with each other is the most important thing. We built an idea meritocracy. OK, I was talking about some of my personal per preferences Incredibles, but okay, Now built an organization. That is an idea meritocracy. OK, Meaning how the

best ice everyone knows. I just want to help. My audience will be here what Ray's company was unbelievably famous for. This is how I interpreted from a far very far away because I didn't pay attention to the finance world. But it hit the cultural lexicon. Was the thought of like, Oh my God, there's this company hedge fund, which is very, you know, Wall Street, where, you know, the first year in person from ah, very different background had an equal voice to the CEO and they would debate in a room. It was a radical candor that hadn't been seen

before, and I wanted to convey to everybody the magic of how this works, right? This is this is one of the things I wanted to convey. Plea in this book? Yes. And okay, so now imagine that you're in an organization in which you really do believe it's an idea. Married doctor, where the best ideas were now. Okay, so then I'm gonna give you the sentence of one sentence of but my company, Bridgewater, was what I need it, please. And what I recommend everybody, an idea meritocracy,

in which the goals are meaningful work and meaningful relationships. That they're equally important because they I find them equally rewarding. And they reinforce each other. So idea meritocracy, where best ideas went out in which the goals are meaningful work and meaningful relationships which are achieved through radical truthfulness and radical transparency. Radical truthfulness means that anybody can say what they really mean. Yes, okay. And the transparency means that you can't manipulate the truth. In other words, if you have transparency here, we literally record everything for everybody to see if I'm literally doing a review of somebody or if I'm doing anything, including mostly making my mistakes, I get I show everybody that process, they show each other, and you could have that openness because, yeah, bad things go on in the dark when you open that than everybody understands it. And so you get

to truth. Do you have a sense of a reaction to the situation in our society? right now where the exposing of the shadows of our society are on full display right now,

I think it's great I took. I think that the key to an idea meritocracy is is three steps. First, put your radical put your honest thoughts on the table for everybody to see. Most people don't do that, but but put your honest thoughts in there. Everybody puts him on the table. Okay, now it's a lot clear. We honestly think that step that step one step two is understand the art of thoughtful disagreement. In other words, you react to disagreement in a way where it is curiosity. I might be wrong. How do

we get there? Not as a fight, right? Not on political warfare, not right, right?

I'm not the words. I'm curious. Human nature in our habit is so counter that two people go to a restaurant. One says, I don't like the food somebody's reluctant to say, though I do. I mean simple things like that. So to understand the art of thoughtful disagreement, that's step number two, and through that you can understand each other better. You can probably make a better decision than you can make individually the power of good collective decision making is enormous relative to what anyone has in their own head. And then the third step is if you don't have a new green mint with that, how do you get past that? You have to have a protocol in

any relationship. In some, however, you

do it, you know,

if the mystery a judge and jury, whether it's a process or a human, what happened? I don't know. It's the city. Go

on forever, right? It may be the same with your spouse. Maybe. In other words, you still have whoever

you're living a coin, a good idea it could

be. Maybe it maybe the rule, in other words, or what I like to do. What on general go to is mutually agree on a party and that on that you say, OK, help me through this disagreement and help me get to that. That's a good, handy process where we in our own way, we have what we call believability. Wait a decision making. I'd like to tell you about it. Okay, believability waited decision making to describe what it's like. I'll use a simple example. You're sick. You have a bad disease,

and you want to go and you say I better go to the doctor. Well, you know that you're not the person to prescribe yourself, so you know that you're not the believable person. So the best thing you could do is to find three people, two or three people, ideally, doctors in that case who will disagree with each other who are willing to fight, find the right answer will disagree if you do that kind of triangulation and they all sort of agree, and then you're listening, and it makes sense what they're saying probably should go down that path when they're disagreeing, they're bringing to the surface the issues. When you start to think about how do I make sense of that? And how do I weigh that? You're then going to come forward and you're goingto way at the end of the decision, you're going to say,

Who am I going to believe? And what you're going to do in your in your subconscious mind is going to go, eh? Oh, I weigh this one more than that one, and I'm gonna make a decision. Okay, so now imagine a system in which everybody has believability, waited points. In other words, imagine that all the people that you're working with actually start to create points. I won't digress yet and how we do it, but so that now we know that your believability on that subject is different than your believability, and everybody has that. Then you have a weighted average vote based on believability. Okay,

that's an idea. Meritocracy. It's going to get you the best decision. The reason it gets you the best decision is because you, as an individual, don't have the best answer. In other words, if I come to their if I'm always the one that's the boss. Think about decision making

this two types before you go there. Right now, I'm just ridiculously curious now, and I'm doing a good job staying quiet, and fans are very happy right now. While they're commenting about my quietness and the fact that we're so similar, which is probably interesting to them, I'm dying to know this answer. So you did this. You scaled it. It's unparalleled documentation, you know. I could be empathetic to it. I document not only my business, my my actual life. That that did the death on the hedge fund level.

That's nothing. Do with being a head shrunk.

I'm very aware, on the hedge fund level. Okay. When did the process of process of things like this or the principles make the wrong call on the execution

On the business level? Um, we make mistakes. All

the course. Of course. I'm asking. I'm asking you for the pattern recognition. So I'm listening. Okay. You're

what? What? Oh, duh. What it does is it shifts The probability of making mistake,

understand dramatic.

I understand. Okay.

But I'm not. Let me continue. Clarify. Did you find any pattern recognition to the vulnerability of the principals in the execution of the principals in the hedge fund

environment? And it was, It's not the particular hedge fund of Army. It is the notion of being of individuals being able to separate themselves from their opinions, to be able to know what they're bad at, what their weaknesses are, and two by having that person by person so that they can then put together the teams. In other words, people think differently. Somebody's very creative. They're not reliable, understand? Somebody's very reliable. They're not creative, right? They can't get their the themselves without having it all. So to know, an embrace, their strengths and their weaknesses. And to be

a think somebody should triple down on their strengths. If you're self aware and I think I owe you spend time on the vulnerability

I the vulnerability you've got to cover your own, actually. Okay, I'm getting natural. Your strength is going to lead to your success, and you've got it. Okay. Where I watch everybody fail is in their vulnerability. If you dough back, go back

and examine the problems or things that are commodity vulnerabilities vs like like to me, a vulnerability like a simple awareness knows that it is a fatal vulnerability. Sorry. Lack of self awareness is a fatal Vernon versus being good at structuring sentences.

Yeah, the lack of self awareness. That particularly what I'm saying is lack of self awareness where it produces what you don't know. Your weaknesses is killing you. Okay? To be able to orchestrate. Well, look, you run a business, I run a business. 1500 people. Okay, That's and you take that in this. What you do is you orchestrate, that's the power of other people. And it's like an orchestra. I totally under some guys playing violin and another guy is playing the oboe. And those people actually have different

skill hooding players in a position to succeed

right and right. And in order to do that, you have to really know what they're like. And you know what? The biggest problem of most people and the biggest problem of most companies they don't want to really get at what people are really like. Include. They don't want to look at the weaknesses, of course, the biggest source of failure. And it's therefore, if you know that it's the biggest path to success.

Ah, 100,000%. Do you believe that people are incentivized in the short term, which makes them close the eyes because they think they can get through the funnel

all the time? Right? It's It's like the things it's like the first order consequences in the second order consequences more often in life, life tricks you because the first order consequences are the opposite of the second order consequences, meaning if you look, it's like food. All the food that's delicious is probably bad for you. Well, I mean, a lot of them and the food so and it's the exercise, okay? And it ain't fun. I don't like it. The first order consequences of the opposite of the second. What? Ah, lot of life. It's almost like you're being tricked and

life is gonna trick. I

believe that you're gonna go. The guy who goes after the first order consequences without regard to the second water consequences is gonna be

crawling checkers and chess. Okay, People are always just

doing the first. That's right. And so that is the one. That's that's why you have developed that instant that we just talked about a little bit of go where you can succeed from failure. How a lot of people don't get this most well, don't get this because they think failure. I don't want failure, but because you learned and I learned how to make the most out of failure, my instinct is almost failure equals success

detail. Sounds dumb. No, it doesn't. I called the local success Micro failed through micro failures. Macro

wins, right? Because you learn whatever you do,

as long as it doesn't eliminate you. That's exactly that's exactly

if you don't get killed knocked out of the game. Okay, Keep playing. Okay.

Enemy fighters get knocked down in the first round and win the fight. Ah, high percentage. It's just It's just so interesting, right? I love this shit so much that I believe it is. I believe in this tremendously and and where it takes me and it took you on a certain path where it takes me is the inner relationships. I think a lot of people can't execute what you and I believe in deeply because of their inability to contextualized feedback of their inner circle.

But I've found that I've built the whole culture based on this and I built and I found this. It takes about 18 months to get in the habit. It's all

a matter of habit. I

understand. And if you create a culture, I understand it becomes part of the culture a culture in which people I don't know are eating and doing health Gettings. Then it becomes self reinforcing and it could be done. What I did in the book was to put together all the protocols because I'm on a book, not just theory like this. I wanted to get to produce personal change in other words. And if you're doing the personal change thing, you've got to do certain things that a protocols that I that I learned over those by making the mistakes Beaufort something like, you know, whatever it was 40 some odd years.

That's what I want to hear it still self esteem into you. Or did you think that you developed

it over time by what you surrounded yourself with? Um, I don't know. My my mother loved me a lot. I think my dad loved me a lot. Um, but I don't know where my dad was a jazz musician, and so I didn't. He stayed up late at night and he would come back, and I didn't see a whole lot of them. I don't know exactly what that meant to me, that's all. Speak simply subliminal or whatever. Um, but I did think my mom thought I was terrific and she loved me a lot. That was a blessing. I was also blessed to be an able to have the most fundamental things of being able to,

you know, have a stable house. I could go to a school that was a good school. Those things, a lot of people are not in that position.

Are you competitive?

No. I'm not competitive as Muchas driven.

I understand. Okay. Did you cry when you lost the game?

Mmm. I I don't know. Okay. You know, I don't think so, Right? I don't I don't think so. Okay. But I don't really know, you know, such a long time ago,

right? Wasn't like, eight years ago in Monopoly. Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm just, you know, Listen, I'll be honest with you. This is super. I wish you knew more about me. They are literally There's an enormous amount of people watching right now that are freaking out. Because not only are we similar, our framework we're using similar I mean, I use audacity and humility. I will show you contact. One of the great things about documenting everything is I'm not pandering to this conversation.

I will show you videos from 567 years ago. I believe in audacity and and humility and self aware things is the only thing I believe in. Yeah. I don't even want to tell you like this is the framework. I call it a blueprint. You call it a principle. It's the punchline. It's short term, long term. It's the value of patience. It's micro failures. Macro wins. It's just all the same. Shit. I might not even read the book.

And I understand. This is this is this is what you're talking about. This this is this is how much you know and how how good you are at something. This is

humility. I get

it. If you want to be successful, be here.

I got

it right now. You understand that a lot of people understand it. It's not what our education system teaches. Our education system is

the opposite, right? Got thes enough. I understand. I was a lousy student. No, no, no, no, no, no. Where you decent? After I would not cease. I got C's. Okay, so I was okay. Okay.

But But I mean, like, I get it. Okay. Do you believe So? Let's talk about that because I think people find out fascinating. You have an all time career pretty damn convincing. As long as I stay healthy, I'm gonna have an all time career. We get seasoned. Do you think that we had so much natural self awareness and self esteem being built by our moms that it gave us the audacity at such a young age to quantify what the hell we were in and starting to develop other things that were naturally gonna happen later. I don't

know. I could only tell you what it was for me, right? I mean, for me, it was like a ll That other stuff was, like, memorized this. Remember this? Follow instructions, right? My brain didn't work that way, right? I have a terrible rope memory. Like if if If I have to remember anything like that, it doesn't have a reason for being what it is. Numbers, names. And so there was something, in any case, but I had

a lot of curious lack of practicality because Rob was in practice. I don't know. Did that seem like to me member all all they're still doing it right when the information's on the goddamn phone right in front of me? I understand.

I'm And that means you, You destroy. I mean, to me. It's destroys your thinking, your curiosity. Anyway,

I don't know. You don't know why I was that way. Lack of education could be a disproportional strength.

Oh, yeah, because you have to discover because you have to discover for yourself discovering for you there's a negative correlation you have to discover for yourself. Do you follow instructions, or do you discover for yourself?

Remember, How can you

be an independent thinker? Like we just went through this lease? This issue in the investment area? Yes. Or if we're taking entrepreneur? Yes. I just told you, you gotta be an independent thinker. Okay? How do you get to be an independent thinker?

Kind of tea service?

Not by following instructions and memories.

Why do you think I don't read anything

in all the way until your got it coming out of school?

I get it right. It's why I don't read books. It's why before we went on air everybody I was telling Ray about what I'm up to year because we don't talk about last time I had a taste this for myself. I could have hired people that ran CPG brands. I need to discover it for myself. Contextual eyes that for myself and understand the attention graph of the end consumer for myself.

Right? So let me and I'm the same way that just as I learned, but that's how our brains work that way. Let me say that other people's brains also work differently. Not as good.

No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I know, I know. I know. I know just the thing. What do you think? I surround myself with people. But it was a goodly, but it was a good joke, Right? Okay,

keep going. Good joke. That's the thing When you realize you need it all, I agree. Okay. And you know,

offensive lineman, get paid Thio agreement. And the left tackle's really expensive, right? I'm with you, brother. Let's take a phone call. I'm so curious. Toe. What? Vader nation. Put your phone numbers in tow. Facebook. As you know, we have to think a call. This is a very intriguing conversation, mainly because two or three years ago,

on enormous amount of people that knew me best told me that I should be a hedge fund manager, not because of the economics, but because of the way my brain worked. And it's just it's been interestingly running, sitting here, knowing how the most successful you are in that world. I'm like, Oh, shit, they might have been right. Anyway, who's going 1st 2 Tim. Right. How much longer? Well, just little Let's take it way down while we get him on the phone. How much longer you gonna be promoting? I'm just curious. On a micro,

Um, basically, just through January or so and then And then what I want to do is pull other people's principles out and go that route and make it clear on that. And then But basically it goes down.

Yes, sir. This is Gary Vaynerchuk, and you're on with Ray Dalio. Gentlemen, this is Tim Paris calling. No, it is not. Get the hell it is. You guys are real characters. Hello, Timothy. Good evening. Did not be biting you. And my question is for Ray. Ray, I'm so excited by what you're sharing with the world, and it's of such great value. I have to ask you because our conversations have been so impactful for me. Could you give any advice to people who are watching and listening to this who have struggled with or struggle with depression or bipolar disorder? Challenges of that type?

Yeah. As you know, I'm an expert on it, but I have a son who's bipolar and he's gone through the whole thing. And so I mean, I can give, you know, a lot, Um, and by the way, he's totally successful. He's totally together. And he went through the journey. He did up Paul's ball values his name. He did a book, a movie called Touched With Fire. I recommend you see touch with fire anyway,

conveys it. Um, and so I'm an expert. I mean, we did this. I'm listening. Um, okay, So if your first realized that, um, insanity is at the brink of genius, in other words, that there's quite a lot. It's just almost a tuning thing, The thinking differently, that creativity.

So okay, it's a tuning thing. And then what? Okay, so the advice is, um, when you go through the bipolar first to recognize that you have to go along with the program to follow other people, you have to take your medicine that the things that the rules were, take the medicine, get to bed at before 11 o'clock every night because this bio rhythm thing that's going on, make sure it in his case, meditation helped him a lot and helped him keep centered and most importantly, don't do substance abuse in any kind of way. Okay, keep ultra clean. And so those were the things.

And but we was difficult with the medicine part. Step one because you could go too far

with it. No, the medicine, The medicine is a two tuning thing. Understand?

You started it and

other things. So what they do is they blend. They knock you with the medicine to try to get you centered in control. It produces a numbness that numbness has the effect of You don't want the numbness, you say I want my life. Also, when you have to understand what a kick it ISS tab mania ce like there's it's a super high and and so you're denied that kind of super high, and so that's a very difficult thing to get past. But when you start to crash enough as we talk about failure and crashing, this is super crashing. And then you say, OK, I don't want it anymore. So you and you have to realize that to tune that medicine is gonna take a while. It's a little bit of this and a little bit of that in the tunes it and then so to be able to do that to be ableto realize that you will be more creative than ever. He's become incredibly creative because he can deliver on that other stuff. So when you start to realize that other people can do it right,

so that's the point. I am. And I have talked about this because, you know, it's an issue. Yes. Uh, So, Tim, talk to me.

No, I just wanted to elicit that because I'm sure there are people listening is get benefit from those recommendations I've found that be going to bed by 11 or certainly before midnight. Even though has historically been a night owl is a is a really effective intervention or preventative measure like you mentioned. And the meditation, whether it's transmittal, meditation or using that, like headspace, is also he sent after Wait a tune, like you said, the awareness of your emotional state so that you don't get carried away by the story that you tell yourself with stories that you might tell yourself. So I I agree with you. I just wanted to hear someone of your credibility expand on it a bit for people who are listening. You might think that they're uniquely flawed in some way that that's unfixable. They're broken because I just don't believe that to be the case. Even though I've struggled with a lot of theirs, All broke. I wanted you

have you think of a very important way. A very important thing is that you're probably gifted. Another words read the book Touched With Fire by Kay Jamison. And all night, if you take the people, This is, um, people who are the most creative people in the world. I mean, you could have instant Churchill, and I mean, I could list all of these unbelievably creative people who are bipolar. Okay, so there's a big gift, Elliot, but it has to be managed. Just have to get a tuned right.

You know this, Tim, Because you, you know, you experience that I we experience it. And so to realize that also, that means that people who are not suffering from these challenges also have the ability to move beyond it. They have tolerance of other people. They should have understanding, so that should be successful. Thank you for bringing

that. First of all, thanks for calling. It makes this super rad and fund second of all earlier I told Ray I was impressed with his hustle. He's showing up in many, many places. I also want to give you that accolade. First off, Thanks for coming the other day. Second of all, you're hustling like I can't avoid you. The book seems to be going well. How's it going? It's going. It's going

on. Let me just let me just say something about the book, which is really cool, because by coincidence, we're all talking about principles. So I wrote this book. This is you know, how I think about principles in general and my principles. And he immediately comes Name thing. By coincidence, you got a book of the whole bunch of people's principles. Essentially, that is so it's

fantastic. Do you want to destroy Tim's book sales? Do you want this toe, Dominique, how do you feel about

Don't know like Tim, Man, we're in this thing together to

get a little packs, okay? But I'm gonna join into crushing it. Come out in January 30th an Amazon principles. I mean, like, we could go a three way. Pablo Kip, Did you see the girth of Tim's book? Yeah, but it's a reference book. I know. It's okay.

I saw it. It's not like you sit there.

Oh, I know. It's a room. It, Of course, the format was brilliant, right?

And the curiosity

that you might have already know what that was about. How good looking Tim is. We haven't talked about that party.

Okay, So, Tim, what's your principle? I know what it is. Stoicism.

It is that the primary bedrock that also helps with the management of what we were talking and not making this up the most frequently bought together with my book is principles by radar. I love that. Hey, Tim, Uh, one of my favorite movies of all time in the thing that I'm fascinated about, which is attention was during the height of TRL P. Diddy would leave his office and go, I think is Puff Daddy back then. And he would go to TRL while Carson was on the air in And Ray, this was a show. Do you know what TRL is? Okay, so you know, Carson Daly would be on. He would have the Britney Spears in the one direction and that they are not one direction. She may like 90 degrees of the world.

It's funny how that slipped up, and that's funny. Anyone nonetheless, he would have all these act ons and Puff Daddy would leave his office. That bad boy drive to town, tow Times Square, Run up this elevator to stairs, get on set and run. Basically run on set. Hack the attention of the youth of America And to get the exposure. Tim calling this show right now is the P. Diddy move of 2017 in publishing personalities. Tim, I'm impressed. I'm very impressed by your strategies, and I love you very much.

I love you guys. I don't monopolize the conference C. But, Ray, thank you for indulging the question, and I think it's really important. So I appreciate you putting it out. Take

it and bring it up.

See, P. Diddy, you got thoughts on him.

He's a ah, remarkably humble man. You know, um, he's a businessman for sure. First and foremost, 100% right? Yeah. So he's left brained in his right brain and very humble. Um, he used to have when he was growing up, similar background of me in terms of he had a paper route. I had a paper route, and he worked himself up there. And I'm a super admirers.

I love it. What? While we're getting one more phone call sports just cause it's a big interest of mine. What's your what's your life? Would sports, whether playing or consuming?

Um, not much. Zero. Well, like, um, like, I

I don't get distracted, okay? You like being

home? Uh, what I do. I don't have much time for that.

I respect that. How about growing up? Did you consume any sports growing up?

I played golf. I've I was on a high school football team. Position e. I was a strong love. Got what they call a strong line.

I'm back.

I was on the line

rushing the quarterback. Yeah. Trying to sack the quarterback. That was my job. You enjoyed it. You did it because it was the thing to do.

Yeah, I didn't really enjoy it very much because of what it was like. It was just sort of like following and hitting. You know what? One of those things in which I had any give me plays on and the place was You hit that guy. No room for imprisoned

again. Improvisation. Christine Christie, know isn't Chrissy. What's your name? My friend Rick. Yes. Christy. Christy and Brian. Gerry. Dario were doing well. Christy, how are you? I'm doing good way. Put you on speakerphone. No worries. Wait.

We're here and we're with Ray. Say hello. Hello. Hello, Christy. Uh, do you guys have a question? We do. We were depicted in here finishing dinner We're talking about. Relax. Oh, my God. A very huge fan. Well, thank you very much. Thanks, Chris. Our daughter's timing in years old. Yes,

I love it. That's the best. I got two grand kids close

to that. So what? What what question do we have? We are currently reading the book Ray and way just started reading it. It's a fascinating book. You've talked about it with Tony Tony Robbins not too long ago. And we both want to know what your favorite principal has been so far.

Well, my most important

principle, I'm real quick. Don't answer. You're his favorite from the people he's been asking or his personal favorite personal understood

thinking. Um, knowing how to deal with my not knowing it's okay, starts off, embrace reality and deal with it. So to appreciate reality, knowing that I don't know. To separate myself from my own points of view and to take in the best and to learn and to evolve all of those principles related to that. That's really where the greatest power comes from.

Love it, Bryan. Christy. Thank you, guys. So much for calling. Thanks for reading the book. Thank you, Gary. We appreciate it. We we follow you everything. You D'oh! I would just listen to, uh, to your speech in Oslo and the $180.80 principle. We just started doing it with our small business and we're already back from Thank you. Thank you so much.

Can I ask you the question of what?

The dollar? Anything. So I I am Very I think the reason I'm really starting to gravity towards you is one of things that's fascinating about what I'm doing is I'm putting out so much content. I've been starting to talk about it as, like open sourced entrepreneurship. Unlike a lot of individuals that are living my profile, I have very little asked for my audience. I'm not interested in monetizing my audience. I have a separate business world. It's not what I d'oh,

right, I understand completely

good. So I figured you would. So, one of things that's interesting is I live much more in print and principles. You know, to me, I in the way that you would use it to mean things are very macro. There's there's rules about patients and the long game and and, you know, humility, self awareness, lack of romance. I'm just not romantic about anything that happened yesterday. Things of that nature. Okay, well, what that does is it gets very theoretical.

And I'm concerned that my audience is getting the framework, but they are so hungry for the details back to schooling and things that nature. And I would say leave that to others. But once in a while, I get inspired. So I love leaving two cents. You know what? Your two cents on the issue right, You're leaving your two cents? I came up with this concept on Instagram. When you put in a hash tag, it will show you nine posts at the top around that hashtag. So we put in meditation right now on Instagram, there will be nine posts that are featured ahead of the others. That's the u

y of the product. Oh,

I didn't know that. So I told people, If you have no audience and nobody knows who you are, you can produce content, but you can also become part of the community. And so what I did on Twitter in the early days rain when nobody knew who I was when I was running a wine. Business is, I went on Twitter, and I answered everybody's wine questions that they were tweeting about. I left my two cents at scale, so I said, Look, there's nine Trent. There's nine posts per hashtag every day. I want you to pick 20 hashtags that are relevant to your business or your ambitions, your nonprofit. Whatever may be right.

So nine times two cents for every post Go to those posts. Look at the post, consume the post and add value to the conversation. Don't leave a post. It says. Buy my book. Check out my profile. Follow me No, be thoughtful of what you see and then contextualized it and leave a meaningful point of view in the comments section. If you do that for nine posts on it on a, uh at a time for hashtag you end up leaving a dollar 80 a day of your two cents times 90 who? Cool. And so what's been amazing is this has only been out for two or three days, and I'm so glad I got brought up. I'm getting enormous feedback. These are people who have 102 100 CNN very practical. It is very practical. And and that is very rare for me because I'm just not into that. It's not how I process,

okay, But you you say you know those things. That's what I'm saying. Like if you could do the following, I'm just gonna give you advice

on this thing. I love it. I love it. I'm open to, especially coming from you,

based on what we know about do it in your do it in your own way. Because when you're actually in a nitty gritty level, yes, and you say one of those and you then just dictate it like your great verbally. Yes, you can just knock these things off like this.

You'll love this. I apologize. This is insane that this is happening, Iris, is how you have to edit the day today, Iris came to me. She films me all day. Today I'm at a conference. I'm making a joke that I like her the best. More than the Rock and Babin, the other people that film me. And I said, Because of that, I'm gonna start articulating and this is maybe in the subconscious. I don't even know we were doing the Q and a show today. Theoretically, I knew it was coming this week,

but it could've been tomorrow. I literally started explaining things. They came to me. They said, We're gonna put up your slide at the end of your talk, I said, Could you put up the slide for the 1st 2 minutes when I go up there and then you could show me live on the jump on the three different screens and then you can end with my slide? That's just my normal demeanor. But what I did was I challenged myself back to what you just asked me to do, and I looked in the camera and I explained to my audience in real time why I did that. And it's because the way Twitter works, if there was even one person, that audience that would see the slide, go up, follow me on Twitter or get to know what my handle waas. And they wanted to tweet my quotes while I was speaking. That wouldn't have been able to be done had the slides come at the end. And that's why I always ask for my slide to go up in the 1st 2 minutes with my social media handles so that the audience could become the amplification of awareness of what I have to say. And so I'm starting to get into a process in this point in my career where I am starting to challenge myself to get into these details, and I assume that makes a lot of sense

because you're so a CZ you see in the book and it's the same thing. What you have is the high level princess, and then you've got to get down to that formula like your daughter or 80 formula actually gives that.

So can I ask you a question?

Yeah, go ahead.

I think I've struggled with that because I enjoy the unveil too much I have felt in the last six months, and now it's synthesizing in this moment right now that there's been a little bit too much of me enjoying the ah ha of the detail, making the macro statement and having it be true two years later instead of over articulating in that and I know I get it. Is it to get

it? Ah hah. I mean, like, if you write down every principle, even the act of you thinking it and writing it down and clearing and showing lights up Discovery,

I get it. Like I enjoy that in the macro. It's why nobody raid. I don't know if you know, I assume you don't well, actually, through the process, you may. Nobody's producing the level of content and putting it down that I am. I believe in it so much that I've created ah, human production company infrastructure.

Do you have a book of principles? No, I don't do it.

I understand this has been super

enjoyable. It's been a blast

for me to write. Every guest on this show gets to ask the question of the day. So right now you're gonna look into that camera and on Facebook and YouTube, thousands and thousands of answers, here's a chance for you. Do a little focus group. Make a statement. I could care less asking what they're favorite color is. I doubt that's what's gonna happen. What question would you like to ask the vein Our nation?

Can you separate yourself from your opinions so that you open yourself up to the entire possibility of different points of view to get the best ones for you? That's the biggest questioners of success again. Thank you very Thank

you for having you keep asking questions will keep answering them. Hey, podcast. It's Gary the super excited about another audio experience. This a little bit more about music. Go right now to Spotify, by the way, we need to put on Apple music to look good. Please go to Spotify, maybe even Apple music. Right now. My team could move fast before we post this on the podcast, Go to Spotify and search Monday to Monday, Monday to Monday. A song was inspired by a meeting I had with Saba the Incredible Our artist Saba Pivot called Monday to Monday. But that's not what you're looking for, though you should listen to that song.

You scroll all the way down in the search in Spotify to play lists and the first thing that will show up is my Gary. The public profile. It's play less called Monday to Monday. Every Monday I update it with some of the old school classics like Lionel Richie and Diana Ross and Milli Vanilli in Bone Thugs n Harmony. But for a lot more of you, the far majority 85 90% of it is new stuff that I'm listening to, a lot of you asked because of daily beef. And just in general, when I share on Social, just my thug doubt music, my hip hop culture. Anyway, nonetheless, check it out. Go to Spotify right now. Search Monday to Monday. Give me a second right now because I know you're running, You can actually probably minimize the podcast right now. Open Spotify search Monday to Monday T O Monday scroll all the way to the bottom playlists.