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Hello. This is Stephanie J. Block, and you're listening to a Broadway podcast network. Hi, Aunt Lara. Been anti, and you're listening to the Broadway podcast network. Hi,

this is Alex Brightman and I played Beetlejuice

in Beetlejuice. The musical, the musical, the musical and you're listening to Broadway Podcast Network. I am normal, Louis, and you're listening to the Broadway podcast network. Hi. I'm remain caramel. And welcome to my podcast, the hangar where I get to hang out with some of my friends and get some much need to face to face time and talk about Well, whatever. Welcome back. This is part two of my hang with my prolific artist friend Hadley. Frasier. Let's pick up where we left off in Part one, where we just started getting into the Phantom of the Opera. 25th anniversary. I

don't spend an awful lot of time, and I never used to listening to musicals, But those two, the two that I did when I was a lot of money Damn for all time you could sing it right now. No, A pitch. Nope. I mean words. My God, I saw

him he looked request for the

first 10 no. If I help you, it matters that you see next line. Um, no. Help you. It matters that you see

this sort of kind of things are coming hard to

me. It's taken me some time to work out what to do That, right? Yes,

I might. The whole thing up before I came to you and

I thought about my own room. At this point, there are four bars ahead of you. I know. Well, I wouldn't be able to do that for Les Mis, which I've done for 800 shows off it. If I I thought phantoms the one thing that's gonna be stamped in my brain, you have really new. See, Actually, this is something that I, um I find quite funnies. People have a natural assumption that I know an awful lot about phantom because of the 25th. Dude, don't even use those three shows. It and I didn't remember half of that.

So it's lovely when because it obviously made such an impression on people that production. And I said, this is still getting tweets. Still, it a little tougher and it's wonderful. And I love it, but I sort of don't have the ability necessarily to respond as much because I don't I don't. And now it, you know. So how much of that time do you remember? Very little, because we only had two weeks to rehearse and I was thinking I was still doing java in the evening. So I was going to do That's right, The Lumieres at night. So I really don't. I've told this story before,

but I'm sure if you look on the DVD the split second, before we start singing the duets, I'll ask of you. Yeah. Good job. I didn't I was convinced I didn't know that the next line. That's an awkward song, because the words Yeah, it's just

almost the same. But they're not

knows where I say this one or this one. But, dude, that was the 25th anniversary at your butthole. Going live to see myself on. I was like, I don't know what's coming next to hope. What I never it is. Listen, I felt for you mean Sierra had history with it at Lia and and you remembered your names. Well, remember, then, you know, you were just having my arm. Why was it with both anniversaries? Les Miz and Fan and we were side by side for all their bows. Like Children. You can't just

about Kanye, either one of us standing on

each other's toes or your elbow is going in my side. I don't keep a straight face. That's part of the joy of it. What happened? That speeches like things will remain. I mean, he's just a view of the modern day phantom like I am so proud of our association and and you are the epitome off of the Phantom Sierra. Thank you so much. You are my Christine for the 21st century. Like I couldn't be more proud of you. And then he turned around to me and he looked me in the eye and he went, This is infinitely horribly went on. Ah, we

had a lovely time, you and

I. Let's find that one. God bless him. No, I mean, I'm very proud of it. I'm very proud of our involvement, and actually I and I sort of think about what we achieved in those two weeks was quite remarkable. I mean, we never tech tw the second act no. And so to have got through that was was quite was quite something. And I sort of thank you and see every really, for sort of holding my hand. Three. Most of that sort of dragging me through. But I think maybe I'll go back to that show in the years to come. It's confess,

not one that I have a sort of burning desire to go back to, because I suppose I feel like maybe this is going back to some of the conversation. We've already had their so much out there. There's so many new things to discover. I suppose that that's at the moment. The thing that I find most satisfying is the variety off What's new? I mean, I'm sort of contradicting myself slightly, given that I'm going back into City of Angels, But that doesn't mean you have a four Western run. No, that's true. We only did. I suppose must have been about seven weeks of it because I'm sure at that time it was, I'm sure even hopes of a transfer. Yeah,

it came very close. For whatever reason, that didn't That didn't work out. So I suppose I always felt like unfinished business. Um, so, yeah. Thanks for digging me out of that hole. But also you you have that you know, that desire in that excitement for new And, you know, the the diversity that you talked about because you also right, and you are writing and you're contributing to that diversity. I suppose so. You knew works. Yeah,

I guess so. I suppose that also, and I don't know how you feel about this that also comes down to that thing of when you have done something for 20 years. You kind of go, Oh, I I have a vague idea of how to do it. I know I'm not be English about this. I have an idea of how to do this now. And I would like a little bit more like to have a bit more agency. So I suppose writing or directing is that sort of thing where you feel like you potentially have a little bit more agency as a as a someone who's been in the business and because you went to university in Birmingham correct for English, English, English literature and language and theater. So I did Well, it was a joke. It was called Join Honors, so Yeah,

amazing. I wasn't very good at the English language stuff. All the sort of the ground of stuff left me kind of cold, But I enjoyed your wonderful raider. Um, I enjoyed infrastructure. The seminars that did turn up to Did you have? Ah ah, sort of. Ah, writing bug, then? No, we really didn't, actually. And there were other contemplative mind that really did.

And on they've gone on to some success. I suppose I was keen to be an actor, which is why I think probably now, I don't regret going to university, but I suppose if I had my time again, I think I would probably go on to a drama school with drama college. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I think. What do you think you missed out on? Um, uh, that's a really good question. I'm not entirely sure, but I think I'd like to finish just a little bit more of my technique earlier on and not relied upon instinct.

Is that fair to say I get you? Yeah, I think I'm on now. Much keener to search out technique on door that some stuff that I was back them Maybe it's happened the right way round technique as an actor. Yeah, exactly that. We my course, was actually very practical at the time. The burning university drama course was a very practical woman. And so we've got to do an awful lot of performance. And on what do you mean, technique as an actor, then? Because if you do your prep, you've learned your lines. You show up the day one,

but you're not using this. That's the example of distended Lasky rationing. Exactly. Yeah, I suppose there there are things like, um, those those schools off dramatic technique that I wish I was slightly better. So whether it's Meisner, whether it stands asking exactly that well versed in all rooms so you know when you get there like this will serve this piece better. Exactly. That on that sort of links back to that thing of going, What's the authority intent here? You know, if you're doing a piece of David Mamet, I think it's really helpful to have read David David Mamet's books upon performance. Yeah,

um, have you read true or false? I haven't. Yeah. Um, and I like that idea of Just, like, not prepping for the end game. You prepped for that first step? You just all right. See you. That's something I go. I should go away and meet the been a while since I read. And I'm right away thinking someone who has read it recently. You don't want the fucking time. I suppose that's the only thing that I would sort of do differently.

I mean, And then I left to go to the Royal Academy of Music to do musical theatre Post grads, which was great. And that helped hone a set amount of singing technique, I suppose, and did a bit of dance as well, which I guess, helped. Which we saw in Frankenstein Younger. A little bit of the Frankenstein. Yeah. Um, and there was some acting on that course by suppose. Really? Not quite as much as I'd had at university. So,

um, come in when I was going with this. What, you want to be over still? Yeah. So, um, with your acting technique, so all of that kind of stuff. But now I suppose there's an awful lot of stuff that I did in English literature that I now go. Ah, that's the stuff that I'm coming back to with the writing. So in terms of narrative structure, in terms of characterization, in terms of plot, in terms of interpreting a piece together and I'm going.

But now I'm wishing I paid a lot more attention in my intellectually classes. And I read all the things that were on this. Um, what was the first step at writing that you went well? Someone approached you, said can you? Right this minute. They know you're a writer. Uh, the 1st 1 that that had had been that has been performed was committee that we wrote for Donmar Warehouse 23 years ago. That the first time you put pen to paper? No, I done actually quite a bit before then. I mean, we hit collaborated on Houdini Houdini with Was that the first time? No,

I had written while I was living in the States, so this would have been about 72,008. So it is ringing. I had a relatively fallow period where I wasn't working all that much. I couldn't work really apart from in the entertainment industry because of the visa. Let's high hat enjoys a pilot season. The joys of party think it's going to be busy and you're not in your in Venice Beach for after time, which is lovely. But then there was a part of me that went, What am I doing? You're just wasting time. That's happened Too much of a good thing. Absolutely. So I wrote a short film scripts, and I wrote a play script, neither of which I'm glad have ever been produced.

You did it just a pastime in just to keep you bring Yes, I suppose. I suppose so. Also because out there they're there is a very admirable trait, I think, especially in L. A off bomb, creating one zone work and creating one's own opportunities, which I'd be here. I don't think we're as good as I think. One tends to get sort of parked into a box. Says you are a an actor. You are a singer, you are a writer, you are director whatever. Whereas I think in New York in L.

A. In the States, there is much more sort of acceptance of a diversification, and I want to do this now and a support in terms of doing it. So you must feel the change of that happening over here now. I think you're right. I think there is a bit more off a support network there. But certainly when we were starting out, I think that there was a bit more 100 sort of pitch in holding going on. Remember that thing of, like, I can't get into TV Season theater? Yeah, which is insane, which is crazy. Really. Um, so are you certain dabbling written?

Yeah, we

did a few readings of the play that I did. But now when I think about it, I did a very, very plastic thing. And I'm still something of a novice writer. But I started writing the play without having done any sort of work in terms of crossing out in terms of structure on dhe. Now, I'd never do that. I would always structure something first and then and then go in and write something. So s O. It was fortune, Really. I had worked with Jay Z Rock. Who is that then? Artistic director of the Donmar Warehouse. She's directing City of Angels. We had worked together 45 times as actor and director on.

I think we had talked about writing on Dhe. She was keen for a new piece of music theater to happen at the Donmar on Dhe. I think she's sort of weak. I mean, we co wrote the book in the lyrics for that one and my colleague Tom Deering, who, you know well, write the music community for committee on. I think Josie's just sort of went Look, I believe in you guys. I think that you have the wherewithal to do this. Andi, I suppose. And at that point, had she read any of your previous life toe even have started a conversation with you, I'm not even sure she had done.

She must have done. Yeah, I think she had. I think she'd read because Tom and I have been working on something else. Another, um, adaptation of underground post story that? Yeah. And that was a round of Houdini time. That was around the Houdini. Houdini also got a bit of what? People are tired. They knew about it for those of you knowing that the people won't know this, But there was a Houdini musical that remain and I were involved in on DDE You brought me in as a sort of script consultant on the right, and I'm still trying to figure out why. Did I think how do I know you were a writer?

But I guess I knew it. Maybe you'd read the play or something. Maybe at that point we were writing music as well. So I knew you were. Yeah, great. Um, but I suppose going forward looking to the future, which I suppose is what we should do that something that I want to do an awful lot more of. You know, I've got a couple of projects that I hope will see the light of day at some point on DDE. That I think, is the thing that gives me the most joy other than doing lots of different things, I hope I suppose that maybe I'll ask you this in a minute. But I hope the next 20 years of my career sort of looking back on the 1st 20 sees that same diversification sort of continuing through. So I'd love to keep doing plays,

keep doing musicals, keep doing filming and keep writing and keep playing music. I mean, I can't myself incredibly fortunate to have to say that I do. All of those things. Where do you? I mean, what's the next 20 years for you was funny out as you were saying, that I was just gonna bring back the praise you gave me when we started. How you were saying, You know, when there's something you want to, you just went and did, and you learned it. And you've been doing that anyways, when it comes,

you've been getting better as an actor, you don't sit around and wait for things you create as a writer. You do more and more. I don't know where it's gonna go with that now. But I guess the point of that is because I want to try and think of anyone listening to especially, You know, we got great support out there on the young folks who look up. Yeah, you know, they reach out and they say, Well, what do I do? And I never know what to say. So I thought this podcast will help answer some of those questions, and it just comes with effort and the desire to work hard for something. Yeah,

I think that's right. I think hard work is the thing that I would prepare a department prize above all else. I think there is a slight tendency nowadays, I think, promoted by those sorts of talent shows that have always been around but now a very, um, big role in the cultural consciousness, and certainly in people who want to be a performer, there is that sense off. I deserve something because I want it rather than I want to work hard at something and whatever comes from it comes from it. Evidently, we all have to make money, and we all have to live. So there has to be a balance. You can't exist on reading alone on Dhe working on your craft alone at some point, you know,

commercial. But commercialism has to meet in, you know, has to meet artistry. But I think hard work is something that, uh, prize above all else. And that's what worries me. I see it with my kids sometimes. So if it's not in front of him, it's not in front of you, and they don't know where to start looking, huh? But we will probably like that as well. Andi, I think there are people who put themselves through college by working,

and there is ah absolute adherence to the understanding that hard work goes. There is an ease of access to things now, I suppose, which is actually an arraignment? Absolutely. But that I'd guess just that that that ideal right off off. I want something. Therefore I'm entitled to. I think that's something that's really, really dangerous. Um, so I think I just want what work, isn't it, you know? Yeah. And that tends to pay off.

I also think there's a way that you work with people that that that comes to help you in the long run. It's Well, it's something that that Brannan goes on about all the time. This is the way that you are in the room with people. The way that you work with people is incredibly important on people. Pick up on that. I think the Sooners picked someone, works it, walks into the room. You know what I mean? Yeah, that is actually something that I'm so figuring out. No wonder this you strike me as an eminently workable person only mean, like eminently collaborative person. You're in that Korea has been collaborating with people. You know,

you only have to look at the music stuff that. You do see how much of that? Yeah, of course. It's remain caramel in concert. But you have a band now who would probably walk over hot coals to come and play with you, right? Because they enjoy that sense. Yeah, they enjoy that sense of collaboration, and they know that what they put in make it out of you. Um, so when you do these, what you did at the Royal Academy and last week is Yeah, Yeah. Talk me through that real quick.

Um, you're there to do what they have stuff prepared for. You are? Yeah, that was That was a public master class. They called it. And so in that situation we had, I think eight people who got up and sang a song and it was sort of working on an acting through song is sort of acting through some class, really. Which, um, I'm always at pains to say I don't think there is a particular technique to I think there are things that with experience and with hard work, one can land, and I suppose there are. I have encountered teachers in my own time who professed that they have a mastery and their technique is the only technique. And when someone does something differently,

it's wrong. Or when you, when a student does something differently, is wrong. I suppose I'm always at pains to say, Look, this is just my opinion. Yeah, there is a way of doing X that is completely different to the way that we'll explore it. But I suppose that's why I like to think of it as a rehearsal. Yeah, and that's why you got to read the person as well, read the student in this case, because what works for them not work for the next person? Absolutely. On,

I suppose the reason why we the reasons why those classes exist as much as to learn technique is to prepare oneself for being in the industry. And the way that you are in the industry is to be in rehearsal. It's making sense. I I think that's the most important part. So there are singing lessons and acting lessons and all of that kind of stuff at home's your technique, but things like acting through song classes, master classes for me, that is the moment where you effectively stepping into the rehearsal room Yeah, and stepping into the rehearsal room for me means there isn't a right or wrong. There is only a Let's try it this way. Let's try it that way. Yeah, let's try it the third way. Let's try the fifth way. Let's try the 10th way, and at some point you go.

That feels about right for today. Yeah, yeah. Do you find with when you do something like that? Is there a general repeating? Ah, sort of critique or comment? You're finding your giving. Yeah, which is self pity is the most off putting thing to see from an audience point of view. And it's something that I think as musical theater actors, especially doing things like lame is is really easy. And I know I've fallen into this trap and probably fell into it nightly when doing laying this. But the act of self pity on stage is an immediate turn off and say, That's the one thing that I I will find myself saying more often than not, is if you are in if you are a character.

He was facing various obstacles, which most character should be if it's a decent bit of drama because conflict, his drama if you are up against it, if you have to overcome an obstacle to get the thing that you want, it doesn't always ring true. But an audience will love you much more for trying rather than giving up nothing Saturday and seen someone fight back those tears. And you like, you just want to hold him. Absolutely. Then, as an audience member, you go. I want everything that they want. And to a certain extent, I suppose most drama is about what characters want on, whether they get them or not.

So that's something that I find you. I encounter frequently. And lastly, how far? How well prepared We finding students very well repaired like him. And I think about myself back in the day. And I think, my God, you guys know it already show ready much more than I ever was. Or perhaps my contemporaries. Well, that's exciting and scary to hear because we got to keep up with

the world, man.

Yeah, and we'll tie it. Okay. Real quick. Yeah, off top of your head. What's your favorite childhood memory? Um, or one that comes to mind. Yeah. That makes you like, Yeah, it was good, I suppose, in the context of what we've been talking about, I saw my brother in West Side Story at my school. I suppose I would have been about 13 maybe 14.

So he would've been 15. 16. He's playing Bernardo. There weren't many Puerto Ricans in Bracknell in about 1984 so Right. Well, apologies for that. You get a pass. Thank you, Ana. I remember sitting in the school hole a hearing dance at the gym, the mambo, and think I've never and thinking I'd never heard music like this before. Where does this come from? And where can I be involved in it? Oh, man,

it wasn't that I thought All that's what I want to do. All I thought was I'm no heard music like that before. And I've not seen people on stage with a life that is influenced by that music. This makes sense because you started plane when you started learning guitar. Yeah, you did play a lot more of those sort of Spanish shorter cordoned off. Remember you showing me that's true. Yeah, well, although that was slightly unconnected, that was because my guitar teacher growing up was obsessed with South American. Uh, all right. Okay. Guitar music. And so rather than going through the special have been the associative board of your music exam's.

I didn't do any of that. He just taught me, um, all of the South American techniques like Malang Gers and Bossa Novas and said, That's where my classical guitar playing came through. Players like Culture Toral, who I still listen to today and go man, that's that's playing. But I suppose in a sense, there was a similar kind of influence musically there. But that's the one moment where I remember going, Oh, my word music has such potential to shift people and on dhe change what is going on inside them, as did his performance of Bernardo? No. Yeah,

which was exceptional and talking of people with, like, shorts and squat bodies that I think Ed was that at the time. God bless him. He's now a left and a colonel in the Army, and it's got a rough, tough the mountain man. But at the time, he arguably one of the greatest performances of Bernardo, I think, without a shadow of a doubt, uh, and violate what made you smile yesterday. What made me smile. Yesterday. We,

my wife and I made biscuits and cakes with LV on, although at the time the kitchen was being destroyed and she was falling off the chair and injuring herself. Rosie, of course, Rosie. There was a moment where I realized that the simple act of baking was something that LV sort of couldn't quite believe. How wonderful it waas So that was Yeah, that's beautiful, man. Rosie LV. Everybody have healthy happy old Goodman and ask for more. No love you, brother. You do? You might be on they go

the hang the show Can't wait. Kissed What? Thanks, folks. I had a blast catching up in hanging with my great friend Hadley Fraser. He is an extraordinary individual. I love that man. Don't forget, you can connect with me at BP and dot FM forward slash the hang and on Instagram and Twitter at Remain Caramel. The Hang is produced by Dorie Barris, Dean and Alan Seals from the Broadway Podcast Network. You can find me online at e p n dot FM forward slash no hang. Don't forget you can connect with me on Instagram and Twitter at Ramin Caramel on YouTube roaming Iranian or my Facebook page official remain caramel music for my podcast is by my friends and one of my favorite bands that dives. Please check him out at their website that dives music dot com. That's the dives music dot com, where you can get to know them here. They're incredible music,

get links to all their socials and, most importantly, their tour dates, where you can find out where you can see and hear them live. They are truly a great band, and they are phenomenal. Live. Check him out. I'm Jamie Duma, and I'm Rob Russo, along with Jennifer So Marred Where Broadway's podcast, The Fabulous Invalid Did You Love the podcast? You just listen to well, check out the Fabulous Invalid, Next named after a Kaufman and Hart play from 1938 and embodying the idea that Broadway is always in decline and always in resurgence. The Fabulous Invalid is a proud member of the amazing Broadway Podcast Network,

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