I think this is Jason Cabinets Experience hosted by Jason Katniss. Join Jason as he talked to small business owners and started founders and other interesting people as we gain great insights about business people. Leadership HR how each gas strives to be great every day. Hello and welcome to the Jason carries experience. I mean, host Jason Cabinets, Jason Campus experiences Baquba cabins HR Kevin. States are focused on your business. We've got Yohr. Our guest Today is Day, Dre. Diamond Day. Dre, you to be get great today. Yes, Dadri has combined her 25 years experience working in technology and staffing. What the love for the cybersecurity community to create cyber sn a company transforming the way cybersecurity professionals approach job surgeries. She is also a friend of Secure Diversity, a nonprofit organization dedicated to address in the seven security challenge shortage. Thank you very much for being here today.

It really appreciate it. Absolutely. It's I'm happy to be here,

So talk about cyber Security network. What? Actually is that

absolutely the cyber sn were a national cyber security staffing organization with a international cybersecurity job board. So where the place you go if you want to find talent in cybersecurity. And, ah, we are very dedicated to cyber and that we won't work a job that isn't cybersecurity.

So how long? How do you get involved with cybersecurity?

You know, in 2007 I was asked by, uh, founders I had been working for for 13 years and another company to come to rapid seven and build out their sales as the first vice president of sales. I took my 13 years of working for them in the tech staffing and took that model and put it into software sales and became the first V p of sales at Rapid. Seven. On was in that position to 50 million of recurring revenue. And, uh and so that's how I got into cyber and met all these amazing cybersecurity professionals that I really connected with being a criminal justice. Sociology major my stuff off.

So what is like a stared type of cybersecurity dip that is nothing is as incorrect

a stereotype that it's all about a keyboard in a city, and you know that. Ah, there's what that's the role. That's the only role is the role of, uh, you know, the keyboard in the study and really one of the things that I've the community is really love that I created years ago, which is now the 35 job categories of really showcasing how vast cybersecurity is 35 job categories technical, non technical leadership and, you know, over 112 titles. So, uh, that's the mid number. One misconception is that it's just one role, that attacker, defender, and ah, And then again, it's typically a young male in a city.

Is there a difference stream doing cyber security for a small company versus a large corporation? Was the citizens the same skill set?

Absolutely. Uh, it's not so much about the same skill set as it is a different need. Right and skills are, um, you know, really tasks and projects right. Our ability to complete tasks or projects and the knowledge of what tasks or projects that need completed and the need of those tested projects very vastly over a small car company versus a big company, also versus an industry versus one industry. And so it is another reason why cybersecurity is sort of so misunderstood is that not only is it vast depending on the organization. It could be completely different need. But maybe the same job title

is there is a two part question. Can you talk about the challenges service here? People have fun and jobs both, like in a regular. No circumstance that what's going

on right now? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So let's talk Cryer Cove in 19 1st right? And we've got a broken job searching system. No matter who you are right, we've all experienced what it's like to search for a job. It's endless hours of sending resumes, never hearing back. And when you do hear back, you're probably talking to somebody that ends up telling you it's not a good fit or, you know it's not a good fit right away. A big waste of time, 95% of what ah professionals feel in general searching for jobs. A lot of wasted time. So we've got this broken system.

Then you add cybersecurity to the mix, which is a totally different language than quote tech, right? It gets sort of lumped under attack. And yet, uh, the language of cybersecurity is not a tech language. And so recruiters, you know, don't have the common language down organizations in themselves don't really know what they need a lot of the time. And so cybersecurity professionals waste even more time with job searching because they run into those two complexes on top of the broken job system. Which is the reason why I started Cyber Ascend almost six years ago was I was in, you know, on sabbatical after 21 years of running in building large scale teams and went to Black Hat and ah had met with a bunch of friends and sort of was hearing everybody not loving where they work and wanting to go somewhere else but sharing how awful job searching was. And I was out of staffing for 10 years as I was building Rapid seven and such and ah, it really hit me like,

Wow, I could help. And that's how cyber Ascend was born. Now I ran into even more challenges we can talk about in a minute. Really? You know, Sigh professionals have it worse in this broken system. Based on this language that most people don't speak in recruiting,

how does someone become qualified to be a cybersecurity special? Do they have to do a degree certifications, job experience what's the most come away?

Well, there's no common way, you know. Of course you know certifications and degrees or something that everybody would love tohave and from hiring the perspective as well as professional having. But they cost money and time, and people need sponsorship in general. The shortages so bad in cybersecurity that people don't they will take you without a degree or without a certain a certification over experience all day long.

How hard or easy to cities to become a substitute special example for you. Give me a construction worker and decided to go to Cody Academy six months and you suffered developer right? Is it that easy? To become a sub security person is a longer process.

You know, if we're talking about a technical cybersecurity person and analysts and then moving up through sort of the incident, response and engineering and you know those applications, security and all of that, those technical roles there, there, um, I don't know how to answer difficulty. What I can tell you is that it's it's a skill that has to be developed, and it takes years and years, and the longer you know, the more that there's always more to learn to move up through the sort of technical knowledge and it does require. But you know, somebody who to be interested in the work, and they could have a math background and they could not have a math background and just really would have to be interested in doing the work you have to learn. You gotta understand how you know information is transferred, uh,

through the internet of things and at all levels. And then you've got a really you sort of learn the systems of of, ah, defending and the technologies. And and then you gotta learn how toe at a triage and work things and then becomes specialized and move, move, move Evidence of these air. These technical roles are, um, very, uh, uh, serious. In terms of skills development you're not gonna learn it in, and then stop learning. You're gonna keep going, and it doesn't take months. It takes years.

How long has it been? A talent shortage is a forever kind of thing. Was just

recently Yeah, it certainly is forever. It's just that the need has become to come to corporate America. You know, uh, the government was the first to protects. Ah, right. Technically protect information. And what have you And so it really came to us much later. And that's what escalated the gap.

Can you talk some of already the importance of always looking for a job?

Well, when I think of always looking for a job, I think of, uh I think of just being involved in your community because what you don't want to be is caught off guard in a broken system and not know anybody you know, uh, eso to me. Always looking for a job. Just it's really be connected in your community. Go and participate in local of, you know, cybersecurity communities or what have you, uh, and and and so, you know, making such that you have, uh, options,

if you will. That being said what? You what? What? Ah, took that in and then turned it into my platform, which is host of a public profile. Your identity is not there on a tall nor is the actual company names that you work for. But it's a a resume, if you will, for cybersecurity professionals. Since that employers all over the world can apply to you, meaning they can tag touch you and say, Hey, would you mentioned my job? And yet they don't really don't know your name.

I don't know. Your gender don't know exactly where you are. But I have created something that matches everything enough to do so where it's not gonna be a waste of time. And so that is the no more platform. And And I really built that because there's no way I could service everybody. And I've been using this technology for matching for years. It's how I built this firm, and I want people to find jobs easy. It's really hard, and it causes a lot of emotional pain. And I want people to be ableto move states, move countries, you know, try something new. And so, you know,

no cyber professionals don't want to be on Lincoln because of identity, But also, Lincoln isn't a matching system. And so I wanted to take out also that sort of waste of time matching or, you know, phone calls. And so it's a big deal. And, you know, we just launched a black hat and we're we're going continue to build it. We're on boarding, uh, 47 professionals, a week, and this is a way to change the game. It's it's really a mess, actually.

So I was talking a friend the other day and she has a small business. And she tell me how this person she had her from three years contactar last week said, Hey, I got laid off. You have no producing for me, right? I'm thinking so we contact this person, contact you other blue after three years, right? You can't do that, right? You gotta build a relationship, add value, just get other blues. Ask someone for a job, right? That's the way your job

network? I don't think Yeah. I mean, you know this. That's your That's the number. One way you can get some sort of response than it's all in your approach had No, we haven't talked in three years. I saw this ad posted, and I'm really interested in the company you work at. And, you know, would you would you mind spending a few minutes with me about it or something? Um, you know, so it's hard to keep relationships with everybody, but that's how bad broken. That's how bad job searching is.

Okay? I mean, you don't hear back when you send your resume. You know, the job descriptions don't make any sense, Uh, to cyber professionals. So, uh, you know, super hard, super hard.

So now in the tech world does a big thing. There's a lack of females and tech, right? Is that the same way in cybersecurity?

Yeah. We're somewhere between 15 and 19 or so percent. It's getting better. But yes, it's still very low.

And you have a not probably happen to prove that Correct?

Yeah. Yeah, secure diversity is we're almost five years, and our goal is to provide free education of the 35 job categories. Make sure that everybody primarily women but everybody understands how many different types of jobs there are here and what those roles would look like and what you'd be doing and how to get involved. And I think it's really important to be able to show people how vast, right? So they can pick and get involved and then provide free training and a full day events with female speakers and do all kinds of great stuff with ah are

so you switched from sales and operations toe cybersecurity. How did that process come? about, like, was it hard? Easy?

Yeah. You know, I switched, but I switched from a leadership perspective. Meaning, You know, I've always been either vice president of sales or CEO for the last 15 years of my life for 20 probably now, 20 years in so very early, you know, at that position. And so I have a cyber security team that reports to me, and I have a chief security officer and his team, and they're awesome. They in fact, they won the Sands Kringle con challenge this last year, and and so they're super special. And I understand it.

Understand what it isn't yet. I can't have my domain be every specialty, right? So my specialty is sales, which is win win communication, emotional intelligence. You know, the ability to solve problems, uh, bring teams together. That's what sales really is. Sees how toe create a win win. And ah, and so I And then I built around me amazing people in their ability to build amazing teams. And so through that I have conversations with our chief security officer and I I'm always learning and able to support him so that he could support me and vice versa. And I don't believe that one has to be technical to do that,

because I'm not. And I and I haven't ever written a line of code and, well, I understand how information flows. I am certainly no SME and and yet I can work with folks and and I expect that the same of you know, the leaders on my team don't claim to be sales leaders, either. You know, we all have our domain, if you will.

So this is for something my part. But my sense is most of security people are great. Take a look great, but maybe not. Do a great job settle themselves. Are being people first. And how do you How do you improve that? Or is that

a wrong assumption on my part? Yeah, it's Ah, it's not necessarily a wrong assumption. It's just that, you know, we I think society hasn't spent the time in the money training anybody other than sales people with those skills. And so that's how I feel. I feel like, Oh, I was given this gift of amazing sales training right out of college, which was all about win win communication and lean language and, you know, nobody comes to work to fail and you know, things like that. And unfortunately, everybody else wasn't getting that contact call that emotional intelligence skills.

I was given training for 15 years, and so really, that's what we have to do. So I teach a lot of these seminars actually on emotional intelligence recibir professionals. I I s C Square certifies my classes and give us credits again on win win communication making and managing measurable agreements like these. This is how we sell ourselves. We sell ourselves by how we show up. We sell ourselves by how we communicate with those we work with both above next to us. You know, below us, wherever in order chart, it's all about communication.

Can you talk about if your problem is for importers and candidates? Both correct?

Yeah. Yeah. So employers can come in post jobs for free. Ah, and they can use our job building technology so that they can make jobs that make sense for cyber professionals. It's very lean language and specific, and they can even export the job and use it in ways to create or charts toe cell for getting budgets for their positions. Teoh, You know those Ah, that they need to sell to on. They can post their job and professionals could apply. Teoh Ah, there. There's also, um the ability for the professional to post a public profile and let perfect let employers apply to them. And And, uh so it is a recruiting platform.

We have it. We've been using it as our own recruiting platform for years. We've just made it external. Eso were on the journey of bringing its everybody so that we can get all this churn. I call it search and match. That's why I say where we're talent meets the match search and match is broken. Dating APS totally solved our search and match problem with relationships like they did like they took our divorce rates and flip them on their head because you have options, you know, you know, just meeting one person here at the bar at worker what you know, it gave options of people, found better matches for them. And I see that unemployment as a problem. And that's why I built this platform. That's why it's called no more, where talent needs its match and it's all about solving search and match.

So if we're all in one place, if we're all in, you know, this specific profession, I really believe all professions. You know what to do This and certainly the platforms capable Scaling to that, uh, is, you know, we're all in one place. Common language, job description, common language, resumes. I call them, profiles the ability to matched.

And then, of course, you need humans. Toe do the rest. But like that surgeon match part is crushing us. You know, in terms of finding a job that feels exactly like, Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited versus knots. Probably good enough because you've been hiding interviewing behind your boss's back and had, like, three interviews, you know, because on one was good enough, you know,

like when there's tons of opportunities and you get you see three, Maybe when your job searching, you know, because that's all you can get. You know, that's just like think. It's such a disservice that we can't search and match ourselves, you know,

that's a great point. So the graduating class of 2020 you know, their senior producer canceled. They're going, not the best job market, you know, it's you know, between today and three months ago, Completely different and emigrate. What do we have these new graduates come to know? Not great

job market. Well, here's the deal. Listen to this day, our clients have not laid off. Our clients have not laid off a single cyber security professional. Nah, I expect we'll see a few. And I expect that those few will find jobs very quickly. Uh, in under 30 days, maybe 60 max. Um, Max, Uh, and and And that is because we really can't live without cybersecurity professionals. There is an attack,

uh, happening all the time, attacks happening all the time. And people are already understaffed because we're in a shortage. So what I will say is that this industry is going to hold up. Well, if you even look at cybersecurity stocks, they are holding up extremely well. And so what we've got here is the same thing. I was talking about earlier entry level right out of school. No experience or little experience is already pre cove in 19. A broken system of how to get in s So we, uh you know, Cove in 19 made it harder for sure, because things are kind of on hold. So while my clients aren't laying off their also,

everybody's just kind of staying steady and figuring out their play and their plans a little bit right. Being more conservative than not, I shouldn't say everybody plenty of your hiring. But, you know, lots of them are holding steady. And so that's going Teoh probably, you know, hurt internships and some entry level hires, but it won't be long, you know. It won't be long. It'll kind of be as the country opens up, you know, because when you're training entry level, being together kind of matters.

It's very hard. Teoh train, when you're not sitting next to somebody all day or at least can be close enough to be together. So that's going to slow down a little bit. At the end of the day, it's still a broken system. We don't have a lot of succession planning of, you know, these systems of bringing an entry level. People like we see an I T. Today. You know that took years to create. Ah, and I would encourage them to apply to government jobs. I would encourage them toe by to those organizations that are doing well right now. Like telecom like,

Ah, you know, alot of our online services, like, uh, pharmaceutical. Like the managed service organizations, Uh, for security. Uh, you know, I would encourage smart sourcing, as we call it smart job searching. And then on my website I've been doing lately quite a few of these. I did one for Berkeley. I'm doing one for Duke next week.

I didn't want yesterday for, ah, organization called racist. It's bringing women into cyber to exactly how to job search. Resume Ray right now for entry level, and I'll be posting them on my website at Cyber s and dot com over the course of the next week or so, since I would encourage people to listen to those two so that there is, You know, we only have so much time in the day, and there is a way to do it better than another way in terms of this searching through this broken system.

So we kind of covers to the conversation, probably on April 14th. You post article meeting about the state of South cybersecurity Job search right now believe it was key to buy that little bit

Yeah, I started that on that date. And then I've been doing I'm gonna do one every week to week and 1/2 to give. You know, what are we seeing Cyber ascend in that week? I certainly share that. You know, things were very much on hold that the small portion was moving forward about 30% in hiring and making offers and continuing to interview and talked about how people were feeling what challenges? That I'm both the employer side as well as professional or seeing. And I plan to keep posting that every other, you know, we can have our. So this week when I posted, you know, we're seeing a little bit more movement. Still no layoffs, as I mentioned,

Um, it's ah, you know, um, some silver linings and mental help in terms of people who've never get to work at home or spend this much time with their family and, you know, have found a lot of goodness is well in silver lining and some of this. And so I share what we're hearing what I get with my by staffing leaders and their teams and, you know, here what they're hearing and create a blogger. Also, what I'm hearing and share with the community.

So let's suppose I'm a small business owner. 25 people. No, I'm not. I'm not like a construction company. Or maybe a German company. A restaurant? Why should even be concerned by seven Security? That's foot I saw. That's the big corporations, right? It would have to be worried about this.

Well, it all depends. The first thing to think about is, are there any compliance regulations that your business is legally obligated to fall? And that's the first reason to care that, Or I should say, the first reason most people care is because if you're not following those regulations, sooner rather than later, you will be fined. And those are things for, like processing credit cards or folding personal information or, um, personnel records, privacy laws right on. And so you know, that's usually what gets people to care. The rest is,

you know, brand damage. Uh, should somebody want to do that to you or ransom where your systems Ah, you know of operations air shut down Because somebody has froze your stuff and is asking for money. Ah, things that can really harm operations are above and beyond compliance

or not. And I did that just happen, I think, in the Baltimore somewhere, where someone hacker came in a locked down, all the computer stuff and one of the ransom of something

every day. The city's It happened, uh, to San Francisco Airport last week. It's happening to Major. It's happening toe lots of people. And it will happen to everybody who doesn't, you know, do some level of protection. If there's a will, there's a way

some of SMALLBIZ owner you've convinced me, How do you bring us a particular person? What do you recommend are doing eternal, higher outsource? Or how did you find her somehow to even go about figuring that out? Because I have no idea what's housekeeping does like, How do any of you hire or that?

Yeah, it all depends on you know who you are. I would not recommend just hiring somebody. I would recommend having a consultation. Ah, since that we can understand what you your compliance regulations do apply to you and also understand the business enough to make a recommendation is not true. That on organization has to hire a cybersecurity professional, and it may be that that's the way to go. It's really something that's individually we would work through through a consultation. It doesn't take long. Teoh get a plan in place and toe, understand, which is nice.

So I must move his owner. I bring someone on to do cybersecurity. How do I know that actually doing what I supposed to do?

Yeah, well, that's the That's the consultation pieces to really understand what your needs are and you know, you have to rely on somebody's truth. Just like I rely on somebody's truth right, Although you know there's proof behind what truth people provide meaning to say that you know you need toe implement Ah, DLP, a data loss protection piece of software, and somebody recommends that to you. And here's why. You need toe, you know, implement it. Here's what it's gonna do for you, and it's falls into the overall strategy, even mean so it's like it really is something that people that aren't technical can understand, and you must work with people that are willing to make sure you understand it is not magic. You know it's not true that one needs to be technical to understand just keep asking the right questions and make sure you work with people. Not the right questions that keep asking questions until you understand what people are talking about because you don't have to be technical to understand it. That's the good news.

What's the vision? A long term plan for your company.

We want change is exactly how people search for jobs and get found So international job This board this Ah, dumb platform being used internationally for all cyber job, period. That is my S O. That so cider professional can literally never have to actual job searches. We think of it today and so that an organization can always have access to people that are qualified for their jobs and make it super easy to communicate. Imagine, like, right now, people are moving jobs every 18 months. And I can tell you it's not money, not money. Guess what it is. It's wrong matches. Wrong matches, great intentions on both sides. Wrong matches.

Everybody's behind. Everybody's moving quickly and it has to slow. You know, we have to be able to do this in a way, we're not feeling this pressure again. When your job searching you're hiding behind your players back. Not a lot of time. Not a lot of, you know, right. So imagine the amount of settling that happens on both sides without people even really knowing they're settling. And John searching already stressful, emotional, right? So I want I want. And I want to make it so that all that,

that it actually is the right, you know, in terms of the job. Now it's like, Let's let's talk, Let's make sure personalities and everything else work. So, for instance, a security engineer could literally be do 15 different types of jobs. And so what job do they want to do at this stage in their career is a part of it, too. So it's not just our they qualify. Are they interested? The we match on qualifying interest? It's what I've been doing for ever, you know,

without technology. We turned it into a platform on probably four years ago, internally, and now it's for the world, and I want to see everybody be able to find each other and matched in a way that gives more opportunity. I want to do with the dating. Abstinence tames the game of job satisfaction

Yes, And then everyone's economic situation plays a part, too, right? If any such like you might need to take the first time you get regardless if you want it or not, you know, And

yes, yes. And if you've got jobs that actually, you know, apply to your profile, if you will at all times well, then you know you'll never feel that way. So it's because since there's a shortage, that's how it's just gonna be. There's gonna be more people, you know. But that's not the way it works today. That's not, you know, I'm flipping this thing completely around and doing exactly the date and the upset like now it's given, you know, let's sort this out who hit a hole in terms of what you're really looking for right now,

Everybody cut and paste job descriptions from everybody else's job description. That's how we create job descriptions in the United States. And then we cut. We put inside of them all this five years. This six years. I think that's a look isn't a job description. It's not true most of the time that it takes five years to know that or do that or you know. And what if somebody was 15 years wanted to do that? What is? You know that that time in their life they just wanted to work somewhere down the street from the house of their house, and they'd be happy doing that. Like, who's to? Just like that's a wrong way to judge as a staffing specialist that make matches happen all day long. My life, even in sales.

I see it the same way. Matches win, win. I see it is so, if inefficient, it drives me in a nutty that I created this platform talking a SAS, you know, millions of dollars. International platform. That's how much I believe we can do it in employment. And I'm gonna prove it in cybersecurity.

It just gets me get some people out there. I'm a hiring expert. All you really hard expert. You tell me every first you hired, like was a first round match. I don't know. I think that this rather crazy, right?

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot involved, a lot involved to making good matches. At the end of the day, we're humans, and you're gonna have issues to begin with. Justin personalities. And so What we can't do is match the job wrong and you know, sis owes and Chief Security officers get this the worst because, you know, there's literally could be 50 different types of chief information security officers and yet an organ. You know, the job descriptions are so vague that the chief information security officers just trying to figure help themselves and confined wrong fits he's yes.

Next changes a little bit. Can you talk about what HR is important?

You know, you're talking to somebody that has worked for all my companies that we've had a very small HR departments and, um, we we always relied on them to make sure that ah, you know, policies and laws were followed right In terms of employment. You need that support changes all the time. Different cities states that you're working to fill jobs. And, you know, I really, I really rely on those people toe. Help me understand what I need to understand in the cities and states I need to hire. I would imagine that if there's a recruiting department within human resource is, then then I would have never had that. You know, we've always each department does their own recruiting is,

um, even, you know, more important, because without talent going nowhere, companies were going nowhere. So you gotta have a recruiting department that can attract people. And that's why recruiting his sales, like I started in sales in January of 94 my job was recruiting. But I started in sales, and it's because I'm selling my clients opportunity. I'm selling the story of the hiring manager. I'm selling the story of the job. I'm selling the professional to the hiring manager and why. I think they'd be a good fit and, well,

you know what they've been doing with their time and why they're leaving their company. And that's that sales. It's got a fit. It's like you got it. Sort of is the reason for leaving of the professional meeting what the company can answer, and and to me, that sales it's it's finding win win. It's it's it's solving those pieces to those puzzles, talking to people in a way that gets the information that you can connect people together. So without that companies were going nowhere.

You bring up two good points. One is people don't realize how much they charge should be like a cells cells on market. All right, cause a chart to me is a reporter. Brown, right? She got a market that got to sell that You guys sell the company to to the candidates into the employees so you could retain them, right?

Yeah. And those people are touching other humans in the most emotional way. We have to be touched outside of, you know, sort of love relationships, which is employment the most emotionally. We all rely on it to put a roof over our heads. Education, food, right, leisure like it's like without it, there's problems, We live in harm's way. And so those people interact. Those recruiters, there's a gyroscopes interact with those people in that trying of for the emotional state for that human. There's more damage to be done on a brand in that moment, Then your customer service people or your sales people could ever do.

Yes, I started somewhere recent. Like how Of course I'd like him to lay people off a lot of doing the wrong way. You right and just ruining their poorer brand.

Oh gosh. Immediate layoff. Being done poorly is absolutely a brand. Ah, damage ER, but so is interviewing poorly. So is the recruiters interviewing poorly? So is like not getting back to people, whether interviewing like that's enough to really, you know, bother people. They spend time with your organization. Multiple, multiple hours and you're not gonna talk to tell them what your thoughts are. You're not gonna give them feedback. That's what that's like, the biggest turn off ever.

And that's what a lot of HR recruiting departments are doing. And they're blaming legal laws and all this stuff. And it's like, Come on, you know, like there's ways t comply. And there's ways t create a brand. And recruiting is a either gonna make a company or break a company in my

the next point you brought up, I think, is good. Most you don't realize the HR different each location a minimum raise a lot of my different everything will be different. So you might be a company with tender for locations. You got to know the rules at seven different locations. So what does that won't Please won't go the other

place hours breaks time off. Uh, health care laws like this difference is everywhere. Whether you have one person. There are 1000. Yeah,

Understand Heston for listeners today.

I dio Well, you know, it's really for everybody right now My heart goes out. Teoh. Everybody were all impacted by this. Ah, this health crisis. And I thought to myself and talk to my team. And we launched this a couple of weeks ago. What can we do? Ah, toe help. We know there's a lot of cybersecurity leaders right now that are truly buried in too much work. And we're hiring, um, before this all happened and which means their staff is now over work even more so. We thought we know that budgets could be tough to get to use an outside agency.

And so we said we would give our services that costs, meaning cyber A said makes no product profit. Our teammates get paid for their work. So we're we're willing to find talented cyber professionals. Four organizations during this crisis that have been really impacted cost.

Thank you so much to do on that. This very valuable, um, And for our listeners, we're gonna have the linked her gift in a socially and legs. It'll blawg and all bloggers at www cabin stakes double our dot com, and we should have shared this podcast with your friends and network. So we'll come in and talk. Can you give us any advice on any subject you want

to talk about? I just really want to spread the word about emotional intelligence again. It's the ability is to really think about how others feel, think and perceive before we engage them and during the time of engaging them. And that's what can really create win win conversations, and we need more teamwork. We need people to stick together and and work projects that take years and together. And so if we're gonna be able to accomplish those projects them, it's really the emotional intelligence. It will be key to this. And so I really on a inspire people to go. You know, I understand that you're those skills. Are you know something you can still, you know, gain improve. They never kept out. Like I Q caps out and your by your mid early twenties e que skills don't. It's been proven you can. You can really grow your emotional intelligence at all ages

if your town they really appreciate it.

I appreciate your time to thank you very much.

Intro listeners. Thank you, Tunnels. Rob, thank you for listening to this episode of the Jason Cabinets. Experience the stairs that connect with us social media Cabinets. H R. Thank you. And remember to be great every day.