Smash Notes
169: Nathan Latka | How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital
Speaker 2
Welcome to the show. I'm Jordan Harbinger. As always, I'm here with my producer, Jason, to Fillipo, Nathan Lakha, our guest. Today he is a force in his twenties. He's bought and sold a bunch of businesses, runs a VC firm, has a crazy popular show on Facebook, and soon on television. He's got a book, but more importantly, he's very self aware and very methodical.
And how he does all of these things and accomplishes. All of these projects today were leveraging that self awareness to dissect some of the secrets of Nathan's successes. He's seriously persuasive, and he has an uncanny ability to get others to agree with him. I've seen it firsthand. We've known each other for a while. It is really next level.
And yes, he's great at negotiating. But there's more to the story, and today will come away with actionable steps and a process to gain agreement and leverage. Our resource is, and often leverage someone else's resource is to make incredible things happen. Oh, and as a note, we've been friends for years, and we banter and poke fun each other a bit.
Here in this one, I can assure you it's all in good nature. So if I seem a little hard on the guy or maybe a little too personal, please take it in context here. And if you want to know how I make these great friends of all these go getters and crazy high achievers, well, I use systems, tiny habits to leverage my network, and I want to teach you how to do the same in my free course.
Six minute networking. It takes six minutes, Pretty actually takes five, but five minute networking was taken, so six minute networking over at Jordan harbinger dot com slash course. All right, here's Nathan Latka. First of all, it's funny having you here because you're 29 I remember even, like, five years ago when we met or something. Your pre puberty? Yeah.
Yeah, basically. Yeah. And you were running. Hey. Oh, which I don't even what? What do you
Speaker 1
say it like that? Come on, Hales. A great name. I feel like for their domain name you can pronounce.
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's great. I just still don't really know you That does. So
Speaker 1
Hey, it was like, Do you have any sponsors for the show? They're like the website builders. Yeah. Ho skater. Okay. Ho skater does great. So, like host Gator has, like a dragon drop popping for websites. Or like Weebly Wick squarespace. We did that exact same thing, but for Facebook, APS. Okay, that was really hot back in the day and still make your own Farmville kind of.
But it was more for, like, a guy like you who wanted to get leads off your Facebook page. We would help you build up a lead capture page inside your Facebook page. Got it? And that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2
You seem to have this entrepreneurial mind where you're like, Oh, I'm going to do this. I'm gonna do this company and serve these needs, and I don't even know what how much we can say. But you're in town right now. The reason we're doing this, like in my living room.
Speaker 1
This is great. This is how it works. Yeah, which way we want Momo to pop up here at some point, right?
Speaker 2
He will probably pop up at some point for attention. But the reason you're in town in Silicon Valley is your You said Oh, well, I sell data too, V C's and I was like, What data? Who is buying something from? Because when I was 29 I was like tying my shoe laces together for the most
Speaker 1
part. Yeah, Well, who were you talking? You talking? You're talking to Cal about digital detox, then past episode and talking on your those years, you were like the party drinking like that kind of thing. Yeah. Literal detox, literal, literal detox. No means so my pod gas, The reason I launched it. You know, back in the day, I had no idea it would turn into a data machine.
But that's what it is now. The podcast actually doesn't really matter. It's just a more effective way to connect with people. Like I used to send cold emails after I sold Hey, and was like, Hey, Jordan, like, can we get coffee? The other looks like pick your brain, you know, is the worst email. No one replied when I changed it to Jordan. Can I feature on my podcast? Have own cycle? Yeah, great.
Of course. So now the podcasts You named the top entrepreneurs Because the number one search term for podcasts when I launched was the top podcast. I Michael Hill. I'll just name my podcast. The top Very wise. A little s e o play there for you, right? Yeah, that still works. It works like a charm. Yeah, it rings like number 12 and three. If you just search the top podcast on Google home and so is podcasting.
Takes off our show. Just picks up some of that that head Well, but anyway, yeah, so we recorded, like, 3000 episodes. It's all with software CEOs. And we built a little piece of voice technology that pulls any numbers they share on the audio out in a basically thinking about, like, a big Excel sheet. And we didn't flip that data and sell it to private equity firms, VC firms.
And so that's why I'm gonna be in Menlo Park later today.
Speaker 2
So what What is the actual data again?
Speaker 1
So, how familiar with you or with, like, software companies like me to be sass? Sure. Yeah, mildly. I don't know you well enough to know the sarcasm yet,
Speaker 2
but I would be like, I try to keep it clear clarity over sarcasm. I say
Speaker 1
when I say our poo, Do you think like that? Must have been like a friend's nickname from high school. Or do you know what that means from?
Speaker 2
It? Sounds a little racist, but I know that it's it's ends were outraged. Revenue for
Speaker 1
years or so will pull data from these business to business software. CEOs like what their revenue is, which is called a r r. What they're your rear growth rate is their equity splits in the company. Their last round valuation customer acquisition costs our poo lifetime value turn like really valuable data that these species have to hire a team of analysts to call every CEO to get
Speaker 2
right. And you're getting it because they're coming to your show and telling you when you ask them, Hey, what's your m r? Yeah. Unfortunately, I can't do
Speaker 1
that direct because they're going like, Why the hell is this? 29 year old asked me what my friggin numbers are.
Speaker 2
You have to beat around the bush. That's interesting.
Speaker 1
You have to be like Jordan. Great. Come over today. Okay. How much? Todo 80%. Yeah, right. So yeah, I
Speaker 2
own 8/10 of the equity. Okay, Great. 80%.
Speaker 1
No, I guess I guess the reason I said is I mean, a lot of what I d'oh ties in with a lot of I think, what you're teaching your audience, which is You've got to know how to talk to anybody, right? And then figure out. I get information you want. It's our difficulty. If a CEO comes on, who has a huge ego? Usual works best for me for them as I hit him really hard to start.
Then they respect it. Shy CEO coming on. You would never hit them hard and they would closet up. They wouldn't share anything. You do the opposite with them. You kind of find something to compliment and get them comfortable, huh? So could my mind are not as long as yours? Minor. It's 15 minutes every day, so it's quick
Speaker 2
and that he's done. They're done by Skype. Then I assume
Speaker 1
all Skype. I mean, I'm sitting like, literally I only film from here up, and it's like my ironing board with my computer on it and an apogee mike and just crank her 30 a day. Dude,
Speaker 2
got it. Wow, that's and that's a lot of Q and A. That's like that's, um, double 07 turns it turns me on. I'm sure it does. There's a lot of people envisioning you with the ironing board, but also getting turned on by that. I know your game, Nathan. Like, there
you are good at getting people to agree with you. We're looking. We're talking about podcast sponsorship. And I was like, How was this show? That is. And I mean this in no insulting way. Like it's smaller than mine is a small show, definitely smaller. You're getting the same orm or for certain ads. And I'm thinking, What the hell? This is my business.
I should
Speaker 1
be doing better. Yeah. Wait. Can you tell me about that? I mean, don't be the actual Delta or the actual sponsor, but you just saw in my book the sponsor agreement I signed for it. This amount of money you have that same sponsor?
Speaker 2
What, exactly the same. But your show is
Speaker 1
small way, way smile. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So? So the way I do it is one. It's a hyper hyper curated audience that listens to my show.
Speaker 2
That is, that's part of that Makes sense, right? You have reach, you have a huge reach. Yeah, the audience of entrepreneurs that need websites. Build is more, much more concentrated in the top podcast. Search for it on Google is much more constant. It's so much more concentrated in that show than it would be on the Jordan Harbinger Show where people are going.
Look, I'm I'm a lawyer for White, in case I don't need my own Thank
Speaker 1
you. You've got I mean, you guys know this If you're in the ad space, most people pound a CPM basis which didn't work for my show. If I charge on a CPM basis, I'd make like, 200 bucks and
Speaker 2
you'd be like Jordan kinky thrill me five for gas And it's your house. Totally like it
Speaker 1
doesn't make any sense. But when it changed to sponsor tell me what you're willing to pay for a new customer and they'd say What? We're spending a grand on Google eyes right now to get one new customer. I didn't say great. I'll beat you. I'll bring you in customers at 500 bucks a pop,
Speaker 2
the willingly tell you.
Speaker 1
Well, I've already had him on my show in Assam CAC Ah cost of customer acquisition of acquiring because you got a
Speaker 2
cack. Sounds like again. Sounds like something your language. Yes, you can. You can make up whatever. Yeah, there's a lot that was the lowest. That was the easiest joke. That's brilliant. And I'm basically like Jen. Write that down precedent When we have to renew with certain sponsors, I'm like, What's your CAC Yeah, And they're like, Excuse me, it's just I
Speaker 1
mean, you probably also know the horse story of this. You probably know sponsors that drop a buttload for shows and see crickets.
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, That's one of the reasons that a lot of people who buy ads or buy anything from podcasts or from anyone else are a little gun shy in the digital space because they go Well, wait a minute. I spent 80 grand on this show and you gave me eight customers. I got taken for an absolute ride. This is B
Speaker 1
s debate between, like, the host would say, Well, it's not just about customers, Dr Branding. Yeah, and you like Well, come on. Right.
Speaker 2
I mean, I'll get my branding somewhere else
Speaker 1
exactly like that. So what I do with the with the podcast sponsors is they always try and make it profitable for them on a pure R Y basis. And then all the other branding stuff is just icing on the cake. But, I mean, some of my sponsors go into detail here like actually, I mean, I can look this up like chat. My first sponsor was like Justine, you probably work with from fresh books and she's representing gusto and I mean, she reached out.
It was a great lady. This was like, six months into the show, and it's like Page 18. I mean, I just put it here. Hey, Nathan, I'm Justine. She reached out and then, you know, a little bit later, we're signing, you know, the contract for 6400 bucks and the reason this is important because she told me what her cock was at fresh books was hard to get.
But then I would do things and say things like, Justine, I'm on the speaking circuit. Fresh books is sponsoring things, and I'm speaking out of the keynote speaker.
Speaker 2
You have issues
Speaker 1
filling the demo booths. How about when I'm done with my keynote on stage as an add on to this podcast monster? I'll tell everyone if you want a Q and A with Nathan. I'll be at the fresh books. Demo Booth. Oh, my God. You drive the whole audience. So, like I building nice, cool stuff on the back end,
Speaker 2
That is that is genius. I'm gonna be using that literally. You speak all over you speak everywhere. Yeah, and half the time I will go to a conference and AA sponsor will pay for me to go. But some conferences I'm like, Hey, can I go to the Senate? Like Sure. Seeley, I'm like, I don't know. I want you to pay for it. And but I never thought of Hey, I'll go hang out at your booth wearing a T shirt.
And that's where I'll do my Q and A for an hour. And then that pays for the flight, the hotel, the food, the expenses, whatever for? Because if they're going already Sure. Jordan, come with us already. You know, we don't care. But now I get to pick. I'm thinking where I want to go. And are you doing a lot of speaking these days? Yeah, I do.
A bunch. I do a bunch. It depends if I'm if I'm advising cos Well, I am advising certain companies. I will go and speak at an event if they ask me to. But I'm thinking now why am I not going to some of these really unique events that I get invited to that that companies don't get to go to? I gotta figure out how to get them to want to put
Speaker 1
that another. It's another upside you give to your podcast sponsors. I do. This is when a conference asked me to come speak there, obviously paying a fee to have you speak. And I will say something like guys, this feeds way lower than what I usually charge. So if I bring you three sponsors, I want you to give them a 50% discount on the platinum plan.
Conned the people that I give those sponsors you are. People already paid me to sponsor my podcast. Then they get the booth for a discount and I drive them traffic. When I'm done with my keynote to their boot from stage.
Speaker 2
That's really, really good say year. And this is a lot of people are going. I don't have a podcast. I can't do any of this stuff. It's not because you have the show. This is sort of a I hate using the word mindset because it's really overused. But this is kind of like a the idea that you can get a win for somebody that isn't directly. What they would think of nor what anybody else would think of is kind of a secret sauce, because a lot of people are gonna go.
Oh, well, if you try to go toe to toe and you say, Well, I'll do it lower CPM on my show than the other guy who runs an entrepreneur bottom Dude, you're racing to the bottom. Instead, you're charging them more. But you're saying on the back end, when I go speak somewhere, I'll drive people to your booth. What? We're not gonna get a booth there.
It's too expensive. I'll tell you what, I'm gonna get you half off booth and drive traffic to it. And so now they're going, Wait a minute. You're saving us 5 10 grand on a booth, sometimes more or more. Yeah, but that they can literally add that to the amount of or subtract that from them out that they're paying you for the ads. So you're turning revenue that might go to the event over to you and putting that in your pocket.
And then you're saying to the company, by the way, that money that it was gonna go over here I'll just take that and I'll give you the value on the back end. The only thing you have to do is kind of just pay me up front for all of it.
Speaker 1
You nailed it? Yeah. The hardest thing was that I have a podcast. Sponsors is I run out of things to sell them like I built a great relationship with them. People are paying, you know, the contract in the book, 100 80 grand a year for placement on my show. They want to spend more. So I had to invent new things to sell them. I mean, that's why launched the Facebook watch show.
And so now I'll build my podcast sponsors into the watch show, which gets about a 1,000,000 views kind of per Facebook. Live that ideo. Um And so then I Upsell that for 20 grand 30 ran an episode, so I just the hardest part is the relationship with sponsor. So we already have it invent new things that they want and sell it to him.
Speaker 2
You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest. Nathan Lakha will be right back. This episode is sponsored in part by skill share. I love skill share Jen. She loves skill. Share to Jason. I know I've used as an example a lot because it's a real example. But she took this bookshelf organizing course, and people have been coming over man like, Oh, that's really cool.
Your bookshelf looks so nice, and I never thought about anything like that. She took a bunch of different organizational classes on skill share because they've got, like, 25 literally 25,000 plus design business, whatever classes 25,000 plus classes in all kinds of areas and people been loving the bookshelf. She also go into other people's places or stores, and so they're like, Oh, see that bookshelf? That's the large to small, up to down rule or whatever of like the bookshelf organizing.
But they've got everything like social media marketing, mobile photography, creative writing illustration. If its software, they got it hobby. They got its side hustle stuffs in their professional skills. They got all that, and it's been just a cool sort of user lead experience. And for lifelong learners like those e l that listen to the show, it's really money.
So, Jason, I know. Have you ever checked out skill share? I do, and I'm actually learning piano there right now. I can play chopsticks. That's right. I'm getting their piano getting good. That is pretty cool. Tell him how to get skill share. Join the millions of students already learning on skill share today with a special offer just for our listeners.
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right, because what a lot of people do is they'll try to find they'll play the numbers game where they need, like, more clients, or they need Maur sponsors, or they need more people more ticket sales instead of finding ways to serve and be valuable to the people that they've already kind of got. And this happens with some sponsors, they'll go.
Hey, can you do social for us? And I'm like, Well, yeah, of course, but it's not I'm not gonna give it to you for your birthday. Yeah, right. Not free know, And they'll say, Oh, you know, we love it. If you would come to our annual event. Okay. Cool. Well, this is what is gonna have to happen for that to work. And I think the problem that a lot of people run into is there.
They're afraid to ask for things like this because they think they're being to sales the or. And I used to have this problem too, in my early thirties or late twenties. You clearly have gotten over that. But I used to have the same issue where I go. Oh, well, I don't want to push my luck, or I don't want to seem too. Sales e. Do you have any advice for people who feel that way? Because I think a lot of non salespeople, they really feel like it's not their place to ask for things like this.
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, as everyone knows, you don't you don't get it. You don't ask for s O. The trick is how do you get the confidence to ask for something that you feel totally uncomfortable asking for and the answer that is to reduce that risk, right? So you should ask for something and assume you're never gonna get it. And that will give you the confidence to ask for in the first place.
If that makes sense,
Speaker 2
it does. But I foresee people going well, if I'm not going to get this, the reason I'm not going to get this is because I don't deserve it. So I'm not gonna ask.
Speaker 1
This is one thing. I wanted it. I mean, I'm not an emotional or you have amazing. You have amazing interviews of people that I can get into human emotions. I'm actually horrible commotion like I ignore it. You're a robot, a kind of
Speaker 2
gang business robot. That might be your strength, though that might be why you go. Hey, So I need $60,000 a month for this. And they're like, Are you insane? Exactly.
Speaker 1
It's a meeting after some driving up to injuries and in Menlo because because they asked to get my data about a year ago, I told him the price and they balked and walks. They just paying me about three days. The ones that Nathan, we're seeing Latka everywhere with the magazine. You're speaking. We're more open to the data. Now. Can you come in and talk about it? So, like the thing is, is I'm playing the long game like I'm always increasing prices because you should.
You're building your brand. And so if if I would have, let's say I went down to a lower price point last year, well, I'd be locked in at a cheaper price point. Now I could I could give that up, knowing that maybe in a year, two years and build my brand, they'd come back and ask for way more. And so it's tricky. I'm putting here in the book because I mean, there's there's part.
There's a section here basically says, like negotiate when you don't have to and this goes back into and I sold sold Heo the way I sold. How Jordan it started with an email that I sent. This was the email. We can do some ninja stuff on this, but you can read that headline. It says, shutting just Yeah, shutting halo down. So what am I doing there? Well, we were in a really healthy spot at the time, but I said, if I take this email shutting my company down with subject line and email it to 20 of our biggest competitors, what's house gonna make them feeling to get that email? You think
Speaker 2
they're either wasn't gonna wonder why or they're gonna want to buy it from
Speaker 1
you because because why? They sense an opportunity? Yeah, right now, it sounds like blood in the water. A discount, right? Exactly. I wanted because what happens? And then one of them wrote back, Hey, Nathan, we did some back. The napkin estimates we think we could get you somewhere north of 500 K and bounty. When we look at the current user base Freudian slip before Ian slip up.
Before, that's, that's a whole another. You know, when you google Nathan, it's like making like a network. And networth Minutes is nothing like a gay.
Speaker 2
That's funny, one that comes up for me, his wife. So I guess they've already answered that Looks
Speaker 1
like what air? Beautiful pictures of Jen's spread through Google.
Speaker 2
You know it's funny. There's another Jennifer Leo who's like an economist or something, and people are always like, Oh, she's she gives talks and they're like Oh, that's interesting. So I meant to talk to gentle like You either need to make you a page as you are And like this is Jen in case you care. Or we need to make a page that says this woman who works in the travel industry or whatever it is not my wife.
She seems really nice, though, like a link to her like a bumble profile. LF there's something that is hysterical Ellington or if you're interested yeah, whatever, Like on the E Harmony or whatever find around there.
Speaker 1
You mean this personal stuff? I think people value now the transparency. I mean, my publisher, Random House hated my book landing page. It's capital spoke dot com, The FAA section I just took the top five like search Things About Me and so that one of the F A Q on Capitol spoke dot com is Nathan. Are you gay? And when they expand it to read it, here's what it says.
I'll give your audience. I say it literally says Well, it doesn't make much sense for me strategically to answer this. If I say yes, then I lose all the beautiful middle aged Cougars who loved me for decades. And they're really intelligent and smart. If I say if I say no that I'm not gay, I lose like all these killer like gay Mafia people who are really smart.
Yeah, and sharp. So the and sentences like I can't say that I don't know if I can confirm or deny. That point is like, there's no strategic value for me to say that. And someone very strategic thinker. If there was strategy behind it, I maybe would say it
Speaker 2
right. Well, people always go, Jordan, I can't figure it out. Are you a Republican or a Democrat? And I go, Yeah, because I'm like, Look it. No matter what happens, there are myriad one star reviews on the show of I can't Believe this guy has such a clear anti trump agenda. And then I'm like him. That's weird because I don't So wherever you found that clear in air quotes, anti trump agenda, I'm interested in finding out Probably a guest expressed an opinion, and since I didn't punch them directly in the face saying right.
But then other people are like, I can't believe you supported this thing by not through your inaction. When a guest said something that was related to so you can't wait, can't
Speaker 1
win. So I'm just like, isn't it funny how people make assumptions? They dio Yeah, and remind you, if you were the four agreements, Yeah, like that's the number that don't make assumptions. But this is And again I'm like, you know, I'm not really a political motive either way, but one of Trump's I mean, the reason he got so many people agree with him, I guess right, is because he would say things where, no matter what, you believed you would find something in a statement where you said Yes, I agree.
So you'd say something like, I can't say that X y and Z is happening. And anyone who wanted X y and Z to happen would see just the They wouldn't see that I can't say part. Anyone who disagree would see that I can't say part. But in northern later half of the sentence, it's fascinating how this work
Speaker 2
it is in a guy like Scott Adams, who is very. Is that where you're kind of all of his books? Unbelievable. When Bigly. So Scott Adams has been on the show a bunch of times. He's which is probably where I get, though I can't believe you're so approach from because I had Scott Adams in here and then the anti Trump because have had every other pro trump.
He's very
Speaker 1
much a is. His books are jean anyone pro organs and have to read his books because they're genius on Just Trump in general psychology.
Speaker 2
I know that Scott says that he's not necessary. He's just doing one of those. I'm not saying, but like as far as I understand, he thinks Trump is a genius. So So there's that. And so now I'm getting one star reviews from people for having him on and talking about it, and I'm gonna get one star reviews on for talking about it and not saying that he's
Speaker 1
right. So whatever funny. Well, I will quickly loop back to your question about how can people ask for stuff. They feel really comfortable forgot. No, it's okay. This is this is wonderful, but I mean, what happened with this kind of selling Heo is about 15 of these folks wrote back and said, Nathan, would you consider selling the company and you're shutting it down anyway? And they were all price points way below what I'd accept.
But what happened was I wrote back to all of them and said, Hey, um, I need an L A Y, which is a letter of intent by the end of the day on Thursday. If you're interested in buying, you know, submit. So people Senate otherwise and I wrote back to all of them Hey, I have two responsibilities. Keep my customers happy and fiduciary. Have to make my investors happy in terms of you making my customers happy.
If I sell to you, I know you do a great job, but from a financial perspective, this offers just too low. Is this your best offer? And so I just And it is this your best offer? So they read that and go Well, wait. Does that mean he's gonna decline? He's not gonna take us. Is he selling our competitors? They wonder they make their
Speaker 2
own assumption, right? Sure, they still in the blank, and it's usually in your favorite.
Speaker 1
Exactly. So the question that the trick is how do you set up these questions Where you allow the receiver to fill in the blank with what they want is what happened from that is four of them wrote back and double their offer. I wrote back. I wrote back. Okay, I've got four people I'm making decision with energy on Friday, and then you can guess how it ended the email.
Are you sure this is your best offer? And two of them said, basically eff you, we see the game you're playing, but to came back and double their offer. Why I picked one of the missile to
Speaker 2
that is actually quite interesting because I think a lot of people will not do that. They'll be afraid that they're gonna lose everything.
Speaker 1
What is there to lose, though in that situation, what can I lose?
Speaker 2
You could lose all of the offers.
Speaker 1
Okay? We just fine because I don't want to sell anyway. You didn't even want to sell the subject line was just shutting him down. I just said that out to make people feel like there's blood in the water to get them emotionally connected to to buying us a new ones. They sold the idea on buying us to their boards. Yeah, they'd get egg on their faces.
They didn't get the deal. Oh, right.
Speaker 2
Like so Let me get this straight. We approve you buying this, and then you didn't get beat out by 100 grand Exanta. No, we don't have
Speaker 1
it. I use their own egos essentially against them to maximize price for the company. Interesting. Where
Speaker 2
did you learn how to do this
Speaker 1
stuff? Messed up childhood. I was one. No, seriously, I don't know. To be honest with you, I mean, mind back story. So my household was flipped. My mom was the breadwinner. My dad was a stay at home dad. But my dad is also older than my grandma. So Dad's on my mom's side on. Of course. So my dad like that work? Is anyone here? It's There's no way that whatever was actually impossible.
So anyways, I saw a lot. I mean, one thing that I would tell you that I learned when I was little my parents would never And this is interesting for anyone raising kids and who you wanna be. Entrepreneurs they never told me yes or no. They always phrase things as a choice. So if you were my dad, I said, Jordan, I really want to go out for like, I don't have a sleepover this weekend to be like Like most would say, Honey, like you can sleep when we're busy with soccer games when my parents always do is set up as a choice.
Like honey, If you have a sleepover this weekend, then you have to miss your soccer game, which means less playing time. Which do you choose? They always say, like, What do you choose? What do you think it was never yes or no. That's
Speaker 2
not the only thing I can look
Speaker 1
back on my childhood and try and analyze. But honestly, like I'm not a therapist, someone else probably look at it and find all kinds of other patterns.
Speaker 2
But you said messed up. Was that a joke? Oh, our just cause you were flipped around her. Was there all kinds of weird stuff going on? But you were like, I gotta fend for myself and make money early and all this stuff Well, I mean, look, my
Speaker 1
and I've never talk to my dad about this. I've never really talked about it publicly, but I think this is inappropriate, you know, time to think about in space to think about. I mean, he dealt with hard core, like alcoholism. Okay? And so my and and my mom obviously didn't right. So there was always a moment where I'd have to analyze that every moment of every day.
Has he had something to drink? Is he thinking rationally right now or irrationally? Oh, that's area and a kid. Well, yes. So I would have toe essentially alter my behaviour based on if I thought at any moment he was in a rational state or an irrational state, because it's two different methods. And so what happened is and I actually wanted to use This is the opening kind of sentence in the book, But I didn't The publisher don't like it when my mom hated it, but one of the deals I'm most proud of negotiating was my parents divorce.
You negotiated your negotiate. My parents divorce they but I knew from both side they were staying together until my younger brother left the house. They wanted to stay as a family unit. And the reason both of them want to do this is because we grow up Roman Catholic and it looks at interesting. Yeah, look very bad from a church perspective, but the problem is no.
One. When my dad was an irrational state, my mom or my younger siblings will never really stand up to him. So I was really worried if I left for college and no one was there gonna hold his irrational behavior and he would wreck every year. And by the way, one it wasn't physical, but it was a most. It doesn't even matter at that point
Speaker 2
to not know, to not have certainty in the house, whether your dad is sober and gonna be fine or wildly irrational and gonna be
Speaker 1
a yeah. And again, it wasn't anything that would ever like make the news or listen. A phone call to police was nothing like that. It was just like I got grounded one time for putting peanut butter and jelly on accident on the washcloth because he was an irrational state. Just flipped out over this, like, really little issue. I mean, I remember this like it was yesterday because that he didn't ground me for seven days.
And this was when I was leaving for college. I couldn't drive myself to work, so my mom would have to stop her work. She was the breadwinner, remember? Yeah. And drive me to my work because my dad didn't want me to drive because I was grounded. Oh, God, that's so, so irrational. So anyway, I negotiate the divorce. It was a beautiful divorce.
Their friends today, there were no money spent on lawyers. Everyone still talk to each other. It was a really great divorce.
Speaker 2
Wow, that's that's That's too much response. How old were you at
Speaker 1
that point? I was going to call it 17.
Speaker 2
18. So that's see you. You were this responsibility for this. This stuff we're talking about with business which will get back to in a second. This is child's play literally, because when you were a child, you have responsibility foisted onto you in frankly, a very unfair way, but who? You didn't have a choice
Speaker 1
a bit. But just be clear to like, I'm not one of these guys, you know, the space that you and I kind of dabbling is famous for. These people that say I was broken on the street and did you? And now I'm on stage of the meat, right? I was a privileged white male born in Northern Virginia. Still, and I'm gonna use that privilege before it runs out.
Right? But privileged white male, born in North America, born in loud and county, which is no in Virginia, the wealthiest county in the country. I never had to worry about a shelter in my head. Food, none of that stuff. It was just this, like, every morning when I woke up or winter that I had to think about. Okay, what state is my father? And right now, I'd have that empathy and then change my behavior based than the house behavior.
Really Based off that, I think that gave me a kind of empathy that allows me to get inside it, understand people's heads today. Business.
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's that's very, very fascinating.
You're listening to the Jordan Harbinger Show with our guest, Nathan Latka will be right back after this. This episode is sponsored in part by into it. Whether you're a small business owner, a mother or a podcast host like we are, all of us are working towards a prosperous future. But prosperity doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. For some, it's planning for retirement.
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Right. So this leads to you being very good at getting people to agree with you as well. Yep. Because you're basically telling people this is what I want and they can either say most people probably start off by saying this is ridiculous. You're charging me too much or I don't want to do that. So you're you're able to push through these nose and then flip him on their back?
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, one of the one of these item that's powerful too, is I mean, have you ever gotten like, over Thanksgiving in a big debate with your family? And it's clear that, like, no one's gonna win. I mean, you still make sure it's always gonna be like one of the most effective ways to win is like after you leave the house for the Thanksgiving holiday is to email them a link to someone else.
Saying something that backs your viewpoint is coming from someone else's mouth sense. Yeah, that's I
Speaker 2
mean, that's that's what my aunts, uncles and parents do to me. They're like, Look, here's this thing we read in this ridiculous non news source that says that you're wrong. Super right. Super left.
Speaker 1
Whatever. Yeah, so, like one of the things I talk about in the book when I was building up Hey. 01 thing I would do is I would go into you have any sponsors that are in that kind of CEO space. You know, Theo Tools.
Speaker 2
So I would say Do region, Maybe not Theo Tools. It's okay. Host Peter has S e o plug ins. That's only
Speaker 1
No, I'm talking like So I would go into similar web or a trap. So Okay. And I would look, when I was building heo at who wrote which authors wrote the highest ranked articles that was sending traffic to my competitors, and I would then email them and somewhere in the book, I don't know the exact page, but there's a script that I used to email them.
The first one's guava box that were basically my competitor named Short Stack was at the top of their article, and I wanted us to be there, so I e mailed him and basically convinced them toe at it that old block clothes that got long trail traffic to put us at the top of it and the way I did that, I then basically I had that article saying, Hey, it was the best tool builder for Facebook APS Any time someone objected my price, I didn't link them to that other source.
So that was actually my voice right, put into another mouth. And so that's a very effective way to get What you want is the link people two sources that you have some influence over to then convince him of your viewpoint.
Speaker 2
It sort of reminds me a little bit of the Ryan holiday. Trust me, I'm lying strategy where you say outrageous news story and people are like, Well, where's where's the story? And you go It's on these blog's and they go, Well, all right. But where did they find out about what's on these blocks? But nobody goes that far. They just go. Oh, well, if it was on U.
S. News that it's strictly legit and U S news got it from local news blotter, which got it from blogger? Yep. But there's like this cover of It's like it's like in the nineties. If you're running a scam and had color business cards that had the fake business name on it. People were like, Wow, it's got business
Speaker 1
cards And I think it's a thick business, all right? It doesn't crack up in my wallet. I
Speaker 2
usedto back when I was a kid, get into clubs and concerts and stuff for free because I started a website that had a music articles on it. But of course I just basically told my friends, Hey, can you write music articles? And I'll put them on this website and we'll go to this concert for free. So I basically paid my friends and concert tickets for them to write articles.
Did you
Speaker 1
get tickets for free, of course, from the venue from the venue. And while they give them to two for free?
Speaker 2
Because I'm covering them for this log. This music that was a new quote unquote music news website. But bear in mind, this is like 90 late nineties early too early, 2000 when I was born. So yeah, when you were born, so basically like that's a thing, right? So people were going well, it's on this website in like must be legit. Can't just This kid didn't just buy this website and make it which is exactly what happened, right? It was like Of course I did.
And then I paid my friend's brother to design and make it look cool. So they went Well, this is Ah, this is this website's better than ours. Yep. This must be legit because I spent three days making it and I know how to make I knew how to do. HTML is a kid because I learned it. It wasn't heart. Now, of course, they're like so what? It's on a website.
You probably just bought that and made it yesterday. Post gators website builder dot com slash Jordan. Right, So that
Speaker 1
was awesome, Dude, Seriously, all the all the all my blinks capitalist book dot com names. I'm not gonna calm. Although skater I
Speaker 2
normally don't do sponsor stuff like that, but I just thought it was really obvious and funny doing good. But the idea is, look, you can you can create things that give value or that have perceived value. It's not that it's fake like mine was with the concert tickets.
Speaker 1
I would call that fake either.
Speaker 2
Yeah, that sure. I mean, I was essentially giving them value them what they want. Level the ticket value for them was zero at
Speaker 1
that. Yeah, totally. I mean, I think today's day and age the reason I have a podcast It sze my version of the Native American corn, right when everyone bartered like my corn. The thing I trade today to other people, for them to give me value is I'll have on my podcast. All right, if you're gonna have on my podcast, if you can help me with X, Y and Z, it's like or I'll put you on my magazine cover or I'll mention you in the book.
Or like I think, today's day and age everyone, the media brand and you have to create the equivalent of corn or cows or beans or cotton that your trading with people. And that's really how you create value. And you can do this. I mean, are you Are you part of any of these big like networking groups for entrepreneurs?
Speaker 2
Not the ones that you're probably thinking. I do some, but yeah, like a lot of those I don't I don't join because I found I'm gonna take flak for this. I don't care. A lot of them are sort of these digital Internet guys are $30,000 millionaires, if you will. And I found that a lot of them were either asking me for stuff or they were just kind of blowing smoke.
And I thought, I don't really have time for this. I don't have time for my real friends. I don't need like out friends that are lying to me about the revenue stream so that I think they're cool like I really don't care.
Speaker 1
We know it's funny about. I mean, um, you open the bucket, so keep going, dive deeper into the bucket. I mean, a lot of people so funny they'll go. You know, Nathan Dorne we're doing 100 million revenue, but then he talks. A lot of people, they're like, Yeah, we're affiliates for that company. They pass 100% affiliate cuts. We have to do 100 million in revenue.
But guess what? Their affiliate costs are 100 million, right? It's like it's like how do you sell a $1,000,000 of like this pillow? You go buy it, you go by $1.1 million worth of it, and you sell it for a 1,000,000. That's how you get revenue of a $1,000,000
Speaker 2
on Were you lose money? Yeah, but your revenue, like
Speaker 1
my publisher, by the way, hates the book because it's not timeless. Like you've had some other people. In essential is, um, Gary with the one thing the book so sell for decades. This won't cause there's so many screen shots like I put in here like it was in the show. Notes like These are my tax returns from 2013 some page six when I was in college.
You see that? Yeah. So there's like, What Dorn's looking at is there's $909,000 in sales, but it also shows the expenses.
Speaker 2
I was like, Holy crap. You made that much in. Oh, just kidding. Nevermind.
Speaker 1
Yeah, notes. That's that's all. Top line in my dorm room. But I hired, like, 20 people. Yeah, I don't know. It says net down there is more like 1 50 Yeah, yeah, but but not bad for not bad for a guy. And yeah, right. And and so and then what's interesting about this? Is this ultimately turned into, um Did you have you had right now some of the eye contact Some ring a bell.
Okay, but it turned into this on page 2 43 Read their does what? That part says The highlighted part.
Speaker 2
That's great. Wow. Total purchase. The purchase price will be up to $6.5 million will be paid in the following manner. And there's a lot of other stuff
Speaker 1
Political drugs I was studying. My point is like that revenue that you just wanna talk to turn turned into eye contact Mrs In again. 2013. Time from offering six and 1/2 for the company, which would have put I walked away from this. But it would have put my own 60%. You could do the math more than three million. My pockets. Yeah, but huge mistake, by the way, I walked away.
We could give that if you want, but I bring all that up just to go back on the thing of like, these networking groups are famous for, like all the revenue, all the revenue. But well, matters like how much you keep, not how much you make it.
Speaker 2
My first. In fact, Mike McAlister wrote a book about this and it used to drive me crazy. Is to get foam. Oh, and I think a lot of people listening and watching also get foam. Oh, because they go, Oh, man, look at this person's multi. They're making a $1,000,000 a month and it's like, Okay, they took a cash injection of $70 million and that investor now owns I don't even know 80 and 90% percent of the business.
They're making a $1,000,000 a month, but their outgoing costs might even be more than a $1,000,000 a month. You don't know because And they're not telling you that, because it doesn't sound good.
Speaker 1
No, it doesn't sound good at all. This white Mike's book. Maybe work on Amazon. It's like a number one bestseller because because it because it makes a lot of sense. I mean, the most successful people are the ones that bring the most the bottom line and then reinvesting in themselves somehow, and I think that's obviously the most powerful place to be.
Speaker 2
So what sort of practical is can we give right now? We talked about getting people to agree with you. How do we bring people through the process of getting others to agree with us? because you're really good at this. This is something we should teach the audience.
Speaker 1
Well, I mean so So something. Here's the thing. I love to start from a place because I think maybe some people in your audience are people that don't have a podcast like you have to trade with people or their starting with maybe nothing. And so the question is, how can you do what we do but not have an asset to trade and the way that the way that the example I like to give on this is kind of elephant bumping.
And let me give a practical example, because anyone can do this. So have you guys ever gone on Airbnb? When you guys travel, are you in general? L A Have you ever just gone in there? And you sort from most expensive to lease?
Speaker 2
Just Yeah, well, I see the ball if you like.
Speaker 1
Maybe I can afford 10 grand a night like whatever. Right. So I get that all the time. And so I did that for this place in l. A. And this was 34 years ago and I came across this place called spect Spectacular. Tell high three bedroom penthouse, right? And it was a spectacular. Oh, I see. I don't know even what that means. Tech tacular What I say? I said a different high telegraph Hill is that it's not that I
Speaker 2
think so high overlooking San Francisco.
Speaker 1
Yes. Yeah, it was beautiful. Beautiful spot like there's no way I can afford this.
Speaker 2
Isn't that where we had that dinner? You had that dinner for all of us. Were you there? I was there. That's how we
Speaker 1
met. Hold on. So I know that virtually the backstory behind me that happened about spending money?
Speaker 2
No, but I remember going there and telling Jen do this guy's apartment had, like, ah, full wall of windows and it overlooked like all the boats. It was so cool. Okay. And I thought this kid has a trust
Speaker 1
fund somewhere I wish. Yeah. Okay, So here's how I did that you owned. And I was I reached out to Tommy, who owned the place, Is that Hey, Tommy, I'm looking for a place I can both stay at in San Francisco and host a 10 to 15 person master mine in. I'll do one dinner each night. The quoted price above is way above my budget. Are you willing to be flexible? What is the best price you could offer for the night of the 24th 25th and 26 Last day? I check out, he wrote back and makes said I have no, I have no flexibility.
And I said, Tommy, my intentions holds a 10 person mastermind. The people that I'm inviting Our X y and Z and I listed some bigtime CEOs Rick Rudman with focus and some other people. And I said, If I invite you to the mastermind, would you give me a discount? Like So Basically, I'm saying I'll invite you to your own house for match mine that I'm having.
I didn't took a picture of his penthouse and e mailed a bunch people that I wanted to have like you Thio So you'd see in the holy. You know, if I saw the photos, you may have just accepted your invitation because I'm not a douche. That's also like a lot of people e They reacted from those photos, so I used to things I didn't own. The connections of the seal that was inviting and a penthouse I did not own right, and I just got a bump them into each other and create an event where people's impressions had the impression
Speaker 2
that you write so that people would go well, I will go to this. He's got a really great spot. So maybe the CEO, Vocus says to himself, This looks legit.
Speaker 1
Exactly. Exactly. And in the trick here is you might go well, Nathan, I can't do that. I don't know CEOs to invite. So what you do is you see e mail. Everyone just put together your top 10 list. People impressed the hell out of you. Any e mails everyone and say, Hey, this is the invited and confirmed list invited and confirmed so they could all none of them.
Maybe, maybe only ones confirm who's like your best friend. All the others are just big names you've invited. That's what's invited and confirmed. The thing is, they then see that other people see it and then actually start confirming or they see the penthouse and start confirming before you know it, you put a great mastermind on. So I ended up paying.
They wanted I mean, I think Yes. Oh, I got that place for $1000. It was listed for $2400. So basically a 60% discount with this kind of template that I have a screenshot see on page 1 13 in the book. And that's how you
Speaker 2
get what you want. What I like about this book is it has the where the rubber meets the road is in there because otherwise you get books that go. Oh, well, what you want to do is you want to find a win win and it's great, eh? So what does that look like? So, for example, and they feel like in 1968 Bill Murray was selling typewriters, and it's like, Look, this is not I know what a win win is.
How do I say this thing and then say this other thing and then get those things to collide into each other? And that stuff is in the book. The reason your publisher, like you said, doesn't like it is because it has things like, Here's my email. You have a lot of shirtless photos in here
Speaker 1
for the first drop being searched. Just finally, Cougars and the gays, they double good in six pack.
Speaker 2
That's right. And you've got the email screenshots of the Gmail. You've got your calendar screenshot in here.
Speaker 1
Yeah, you've got to go back to that page. Just put by the one of me the full bathroom mirror. Selfie. Yeah, Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna ask. You were gonna quiz here, okay? Who do you know online and influence or poses in front of Rolls Royces all the time? Yeah, there's plenty. He doesn't want to name a name very politically smart that way. Here's how that world actually works.
Okay? I only have 5000 instagram followers, but I sent out an email thio auto exotic rental and said, basically, I'll post a picture of you of me in front of the Rolls Royce if you give it to me for free. This was the CEO of the car company rental places Response. Hey, my name is Toby on the main contact from marketing for auto Exotic rental.
Thank you for reaching out to us. We can definitely work with you. We have the Rolls Royce ghost. Is there a particular date you're looking at? So I can check the availability for you. Please feel free to contact me at any time hope to hear from you soon. Long story short. I would drive around this Rolls Royce ghost which, if you paid retail, is 14 or bucks a night.
I got it for two nights for free and just posted one picture to my instagram of meat driving. This thing tagged the tactic and I only by the way, a lot of you think you have to have a 1,000,000 fault. I had 5000 followers. 5000 is not a ton.
Speaker 2
No, that is It's nothing actually reasonable. There are there are many ambiguously, possibly gay, possibly not gay dudes that have at least that many. Yeah, and anyway can like
Speaker 1
smuggling. This works for straight people to join. My point is, though, is that just comes down to getting the right email template of how to reach out to the brand to get them to give you stuff for free. And that's why you see me posing shirtless in Bali, where I child for 45 days for free just trading Instagram post for this with a very small follow.
Speaker 2
Do you have to be shirtless in the post?
Speaker 1
Not always, but as you know, on Instagram Jen back me up here on instagram. The guys of the six packs, they always get more likes. That's how it works.
Speaker 2
I I think that I might not be a little leverage. Exactly that strategy, however genuine salad for lunch today, and I think that I can work with this. What happens when somebody's? So I also now I'm thinking to every car I've ever run into just seeing my money lighting
Speaker 1
on fire. Yeah, yeah, you could trade every one of those. Here's a quick tip for your audience that they travel and they want to see a luxurious places. There's a code word that if you ask for when you call the hotel, they'll give you 60% off. How did you know that?
Speaker 2
The media? I mean, the media.
Speaker 1
Okay, This I never told you. Told your audience
Speaker 2
is before No, let's go through. This isn't really
Speaker 1
good feedback. Yes, it's you just say what is your media rate and what happens when you asked for on the phone?
Speaker 2
What happens is they go Oh, well, it's half of what we have on the website. The only downside that can happen is they go yet you get one night at that rate and the rest of the night, sir, because that they figure you're going to stay at that hotel and then review it at that price. You don't need to stay for a week. You can stay for a night.
However, I feel like there's probably room. They're like, Look, I don't wanna have to check out and go to another hotel. Can you just give me the rate for the whole time and we'll try that next time. A lot of times we use points where we get really good rates on other stuff. What? We stay with friends. But the media rate is a good win. You can stay it the Four Seasons in frickin Barcelona, Spain, here that you are without price on orbits or
Speaker 1
whatever. Not just lower, like big discount. And I mean, I'll admit to this to your audience. When I first heard trying this I don't wanna go hire someone to, like be my agent. Direct s o. My name was Wayne, which is my middle name, Nathan Lane lock. I'd call up the Jeffrey in L A and say, Hey, my name is Wayne. I'm representing a talent named Nathan Latka.
He had his own podcast. He's looking to come these days. He's looking at the London or the Geoffrey to stay at what's your media rate and then report back to Nathan and see which one you pick. So and so you make them compete, you get the media rate, you drive it down. And then they'd say, Well, here it is for one night and I'd say, Well, Nathan really doesn't want to do one night.
He gets angry really easily and doesn't like shifting hotels. If he leaves the trip Advisor Review could you throw in two other nights? Or if he does to post instead of one? Can you throw in another or two nights? And so I would be my own agent to understand how they thought and line it up.
Speaker 2
Luckily, I have my own live in. You have a really, you know, here is that this is funny. I was interviewing Mike Posner yesterday, You know,
Speaker 1
I don't actually know Mike,
Speaker 2
you know that song I took a pill in a visa? Oh, yeah, he wrote that and he wrote a bunch of other songs that you've heard from, like Maroon five, Justin Bieber. He's really, really talented dude, and this other guy walks in and like trainers. And it's like, Hey, Jordan, I'm a fan of the show. I was like, Oh, hey, come on in, Nice guy Who's with Mike Posner? Who knows my show.
And I said, So are you like his friend or an assistant? He goes, Well, I'm his aide de camp and I was like, That is such a better name than assistant. So now Jen is my aide de camp no more, because otherwise it's like if you say, assistant there like it's not your wife, you jerk. And yeah, and then if you say wife, people are like, Why am I dealing with your wife? You two
Speaker 1
bit? Yep, turned. What's funny? Is it so it takes a little balls encouraged to be your own agent, obviously. But what's interesting now? It's like I'm signed with C A. Because I pit the pit of them against UT and W M E. I've negotiated reality show on linear that goes like later this year. Linear cable TV. Got it? Yeah, I've heard a cable.
Yeah, yeah, I think we had that when I was a kid. But like all that leverage came from these, like, little weird things that I did early on over the past decade that we've again put in the book. So
Speaker 2
it's funny because people are going, Oh, well, this guy just lied about everything. But here's the thing. If you are pretending to be your own assistant, I don't really see you're not really deceiving someone. You could hire an assistant. It would just be expensive in a waste of money.
Speaker 1
Exactly. I'm saving money. You're not hurting any.
Speaker 2
You're not telling someone. Oh, he's the editor in chief of four eggs. Exactly. Right. That that would be B s. If the business is making the decision because you have a perceived higher value because you have an assistant that, at worst, is social
Speaker 1
engineering and worse. I have no problem with this. Some people watch your Now, if you're a pastor, a piece or something, you may have issues with this. I have No, Here's my rules on this. You can't lie. Yeah, and it can't be hurting anybody. Events as anything else. Totally fine.
Speaker 2
Yeah, because the hotel's not losing money on this. That room was otherwise empty. They're not gonna give you a room that somebody was paying full price
Speaker 1
for. That's right, and they're still getting I mean, it is Nathan Latka staying there? I'm just I'm putting Wayne in front of a Nathan to socially engineer. And then Wayne is e mailing the hotel. My social profiles they're seeing on the real stuff. It's just you're putting someone in between and it creates a perception of scarcity.
Speaker 2
Oh, I will tell you this. I hired a show Booker, because when I reach out to people, they're like, if your show really adds five million downloads a month and this screen shots not think, why are you e mailing me? Exactly? I'm like, cause I don't mind talking with Oh, wait a minute. I've got to be hoity toity l a Hollywood executive. Attention, fine.
Here's money, too. I have a fancy guy who's got a pedigree in a cool accent, lives in New York who calls people and sends them text messages and goes to do really ours. Yeah, how much you pay him. Yeah, he's He's on retainer for 2500 month. See?
Speaker 1
So I'm just cheap. I don't want to pay that side. Rather invent Sarah at Nathan larkin dot com and have me be responding through Sarah's email.
Speaker 2
To be fair, he's got riel connections. He's a looker for a real television show in New York. That is that what that a lot of people watch. So I pay him for his connections. But I would say maybe half of what he gets is so that he does the work that I don't have to do, but also so that people go, Oh, well, if you're that guy at that agency, then you must be a big deal smart.
And it actually has saved me a ton of time. Yeah, because unfortunately, people do look at our brains are wired to look at quick things for perceived value. So if somebody is from an agency has certain prestige, it doesn't matter if that person just is for hire on freakin fiver. Yep, It doesn't matter. What matters is the person goes out.
Well, I don't have time to investigate this Jordan guy, but since his Booker from C. A is reaching out, he must be This must be really? Yep, and that's an unfortunate reality. But The problem is you can't if you're not doing it. Since the bar is now raised, you you're losing. I realized before I was like, Who cares? I'm just gonna put my own show.
It's fine. It's worked for a decade. The problem is, now you've got a lot of these fake influencer D bags that are doing all kinds of things too. Show how important they are, and you have to actually have, unfortunately, some of those recruits for a monster. You're just going to get lost in the shuffle because they're going to assume that you would at least have what the fake guys have you.
Hatch is unfortunate.
Speaker 1
You have to play the game and then where you really rise above the cream of the crop, which is you don't do fire festival right when you write. When you when you say to my podcasts sponsor, I'm gonna deliver you x amount of customers. You deliver those customers and I stay with you for life, even though you're playing the game up front, that happening and intimidate or somebody in between So no, I have no problem playing the game.
I think it's important. Yeah, I
Speaker 2
like your rules. Remember, people know lying and you can't hurt someone. So no buying 100,000 Twitter followers and then selling tweets to potential sponsors. You won't deliver the customers called sod thio fraud. What you're doing is you're leveraging something that the person might not have thought of before and flipping the right switches.
Yep. Yeah, that's it's Ah, it's funny of 10 years ago, I would have said, You know, we would be talking about this in dating and it would be completely It's in a
Speaker 1
way, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it would be your buddy Ghosts that say hi to the girl and then burn her over to you and
Speaker 2
kind of a classic example of this in a dating context was ah, lot of these pick up guys would always be like, Yeah, go up and be like, Yeah, man, I had a long day. My Ferrari's in the shop, so I had to borrow the loaner car. The loaner car wasn't as cool as my real ones. It doesn't have leather seat like all this dumb crap. But what I realized was their different tears, right? Like if I tell you that I've got a great big house, which is a terrible thing to do.
But whatever this is, you know, Hollywood dating scene pickups Crap. You go. Really, I don't know. But if my friend tells you you're like, Oh, that's interesting. Maybe I'll listen. But if you over here the conversation between other people and I'm not in the conversation, that is the top tier of credibility. Like if I tell you my show's got five million downloads a month, you're like, Oh, well, maybe that's true.
Jordan seems Treasury. If a friend of yours tells you that it has that much, now you believe it. But if you find out because you overheard two random CEO is talking about the show when they weren't even telling you now, you think, well, that has to be true because I wasn't even. They have no agenda to try to persuade me. I was just in the lobby.
Speaker 1
Yes. And the problem is this. People actually do. Sometimes they set that up on purpose. It seemed like there is known in there. Yeah, I think this is like you have to. This is like the future, by the way, with like sake, Professor. I mean, can you imagine? Have you seen these videos where people can now? Essentially, it's a clip of Hillary Clinton speaking, but you can alter it.
So fakes. Yes, Like we're gonna have a real issue with this because videos won't even be true anymore. I know it can be doctored
Speaker 2
it. The problem is, here's what's gonna happen. One doctor, one video out of a 1,000,000,000 is going to get doctored. But it's gonna be something important. And then Alex Jones and all these yahoos are Don't talk about it. And then every video that everyone watches for the rest of their life, they're gonna
Speaker 1
go out Sprite fake. Well, that's the issue, right? So now every single thing we see content wide moving forward is going to simply be It's not gonna matter if it's true or not, because no one knows what to believe. It's gonna be who is more persuasive that saying this is called an iPhone. No, it's called a n phone because of X, y and Z, and just gonna be a persuasion game, which is scary.
It's scary and
Speaker 2
unfortunate because the most persuasive people aren't necessarily going to be the most ethical ones it's usually not usually not exactly. They're so persuasive. Exactly. And and you're you're right. We're gonna run into a huge issue, which is this goes into this hole threat of trust, which is I will never lie to the people, was willingly or knowingly lie to the people who are listening to our watching me because, you know, what is it? That phrase trust takes a lifetime to build losing today that, you know, you lose it in today.
Speaker 1
No lies, no hurting people.
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's It's better to live that way. You can sleep better, trust me. And frankly, it works better. You said you play the long game long game. It's always better to have told the truth the whole time, even if it costs you something short term. Because when it really, really counts, people want somebody they can trust, Total. And if you have that record behind you, then you're good.
Some
Speaker 1
of your biggest some of my biggest monster today or one's approached me that two years ago I said, Sorry, I can't beat that cack. You're not a fit. There's no even let you run a test. Yeah. Then they come back two years later and they donate anything to beat the captain. And I go Actually, yeah, I know no more the demos and I can beat it.
And they trust me so much the second And they come back because they know I said no and declined money two years ago. So no, it's very, very critical, Nathan, thank you very much, or in things around me, and I appreciate it
Speaker 2
big thanks to Nathan lockup for coming by My Pad Here. His book is called How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital, which I think is a great title, especially for him, because he is really the master of leveraging other people's resource is here. If you want to know how you managed to book a great guest for the show. Managed friendships with amazing people create all these systems tiny habits and consistency in my networking and relationships.
Check out six minute networking. It's free. I want you to implement this stuff. It will change the way you do business. It will change the way you live your entire life. It's over. Jordan harbinger dot com slash course. Do not kick the can down the road. You have to dig the well before you get thirsty. When it comes to relationships and networking, the drills are literally designed to just take a few minutes per day.
I wish I knew this stuff 15 20 years ago. It is crucial, and it's all a Jordan harbinger dot com slash course. Speaking of building relationships, tell me your number one takeaway here from Nathan Latka. I'm at Jordan Harbinger on both Twitter and Instagram. There's a video of this interview on our YouTube channel at Jordan harbinger dot com slash youtube.
This show is produced in association with Podcast One, and this episode was co produced by Jason Jack of All Trades to Fillipo and Jen Harbinger Show Notes and Worksheets by Robert Fogarty I'm your host, Jordan Harbinger. The fee for the show is that you share it with friends when you find something useful, which should be in every episode.
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