How To Use Affiliate Marketing & PPC To Grow Your Acquisition

Speaker 1

How did I capture more sales in the way that I tell people is if you gave us 100 100% of yourself, which is first. It is a silly, but let's pretend like you said Okay, I sell this this this widget and I'm going to be 100% of the sales to capture value. We're gonna capture a large fortune in the market, but for sure, Improbable. But it's 90% and you were captured less in the market, but a good part of it.

But it is so improbable. 80%. 70%. 66. At what point do you become probable where we capture the most of the market.

Speaker 2

Welcome to their quiet light podcast with Joe Valley and Mark Doused. Since 2000 and seven, Quiet Light Brokerage has been helping thousands of online entrepreneurs realize their dream of buying and selling online businesses. And now we're bringing all the knowledge our team is acquired straight to you. No matter your niche or industry, these lessons, tips and strategies will help you build, grow, acquire or sell.

Your online business is better. And now here's Joe and Mark. Good Morning, Joe. Top of the day to you, Mark. How are you? Good, Good. I'm excited about today's interview because it's with a very good friend of quiet like brokerage Mike Nunez. Absolutely. I sat down with Mike originally back in October, over a cup of coffee, and I think I learned more in 10 minutes than I learned kind of in that entire weekend about affiliate marketing and paid advertising because Mike runs companies that do both, and he's just one of the absolute nicest guys in the industry.

So I just I had to have him on. And if you recall, by the way, when you interviewed me back in my 2000 and 12 to become a broker, a quiet light us, what experience do I not have? An affiliate? Marketing was one of those things I had no idea about. And and Mike and Light made quite a bit back in October. Obviously, I've learned a lot over the years.

We've sold affiliate companies platforms and so on and so forth. But he was great in terms of laying out the details of it in layman terms without getting too much into the weeds, and then talked about his his life experience would just incredible. And e, I'll tell you what to anybody that's listening. It gets a little long. At one point we get into the weeds, I pull them out and we get what we move on.

Hang in there because the jewels that Mike shares are just phenomenal in this podcast. Yes, I want to talk real quick about affiliate marketing in general. So when you ran Pierce that did you ever consider an affiliate program was just not even on the radar for you. It really wasn't on the radar. I produced good quality content twice a month every month for five years.

That drove my organic and I built an email marketing lists that drove is some more and convergence, but I did paid advertising. You know, I get Jason loves to tell this story. I I won't go into a too much because I think we talk about it with Mike. But I was spending 40 grand a month on Google AdWords at one point, and I had absolutely zero training, so I must have been losing an awful lot of money, a lot of wasted spend and my talks about that a bit, too, with his performance company.

He's he's never analyzed a paid advertising campaign without finding waste, and his experience comes from being a Google exec and seeing the inside track there. So again, wish I knew him maybe 10 years ago. Well, I think this is gonna be an interesting topic, because Simon Pedophilia program is something that people often ignore doing because it seems like a lot of work.

It seems like you have been nurtured those relationships. Obviously, Mike, as the founder of affiliate manager dot com, knows a lot about this. So I'm excited to hear what he has to say about it and why anybody looking to grow business shouldn't just discount a no affiliate program is something that you know too much work or not worth pursuing.

So I'm excited to hear this interview. You know I am, too. I'm excited for people. Listen to a couple of takeaways is there's, you know, there's really no risk with affiliate minute of with affiliate marketing once you get it set up. It's a guaranteed cost per acquisition in most cases, also with Mike's other company, the performance company.

He does guarantee cost per acquisition so why in the world not try it right? And if you don't know anything about affiliate marketing, you don't necessarily have to go out and sign up for different affiliate companies. Mike's company can do that for you and actually talks about one of his favorite ones. Quite a bit podcast. And there's there's a link to it down on the show in the show notes.

Awesome. Let's hear the interview year.

Speaker 1

I have a fantastic spent with family. Is another one showed it was It was

Speaker 2

awesome. Just about the same just about the same. Hey, listen, one of the things we've done here in the quiet like podcast is not get fancy with the introductions. We want to hear you tell us about your background and your story. Can you share that with the audience?

Speaker 1

Yeah, Teoh, give a brief description. I have a pretty fun story when it comes to that. So I've been in an Internet marketing for 20 years. It started in college. I was messing around with building your own PC. I don't know if you remember this, but, uh, back in those days in the late nineties, you didn't go by right. It was excessive to divide computers that you had by the individual parts and put your PC together, and that was a lot cheaper than trying to go by.

There was a website back in the day still around, actually. Ben's bargain. It's not that, but where always showed the different pieces that you needed at this kind of great like where you could buy for the best price. And so I always wonder coming made money. So I use it was called a http header re director Snow. That's a mouthful to find out where their links were going.

And I saw one holding steady. And when I went to link cities, you got found that what's elite share and least works lead share. I know it was affiliated management company, so I'm sorry, really meant network s. So I was like, Oh, that's that's interesting. What is its affiliate marketing? What's that's really That was my foray into the labour market.

So I got a pretty interesting next. So anyway, I e left got the college, went to my first job, uh, working for Wyndham vacation ownership, then went on to work for lastminutetravel all while I'm trying to work with us. Somebody call Channel intelligence. I have. You know I have. No, it was this great company in Orlando based Orlando, Florida Doesn't have much Internet, right? Anything Internet E.

It just doesn't look very techie set for town told us that huge clients say it worked. Who told they worked with Amazon? They were like a song. I was trying to get it. I even played soccer with the niece of the co founder just by happenstance.

Get me in. Getting the end of this place was sending a restroom. Asian. They just never even responded. So I only gave up and went to know Start my own company, which is affiliate manager about comics.

So I went on with my brother John. You went on to do that for a few years, and that was in a conference in York City. Alicia Conference, the same network that I I was at least share. Their symposium is what they call it Hotels and Hilton in the actual conference was at Chelsea fears. And if you're a bit of Chelsea Piers, I have not. It is really cool.

It's like this. It was run down here that the New York City turned into, like an entertainment complex. Rock climbing, bowling. All this.

That's where they're holding their bus. That would shuttle you from the hotel already show Chelsea kids. So here I am, an agency owner Starving, trying, trying to make my living right. I get up on the bus way. We're actually doing quite well liked by that time, but I never It's never enough, right? He always Tito get work. So I get on the bus, look around like this is kind of Ah, a captive audience.

So I start going roll my roll and I'm like, Hi, my name is Mike, but you do, right? This is what I do. Here's my card. Call me speaking to business next to a natural. Next. Finally I come across a, uh this gentleman was like, What do you do it? And he's like, not supposed to be here. Okay, well, this is what I think we could do. This government, he's, like, not really supposed to talk to anybody, you know, I'm here under the radar.

Alright. I could take the social que I can tell when somebody's not really that interested in talking to me. So I said, you know what in the world excuse my car. If you ever want to do business, if you want to be in all the silly marking, give me a call.

Had a great show. Got blood finds out of it, went home growing the business of my brother. Eight months later, I get a call from a woman with Chris next. Fantastic for Cooter based out of Orlando. Because whatever. You know, anybody ever looking for a better chief? She drones in the major anyway, so she calls me out of the blue eight months later.

Hey, you men are CEO of a plus in your eight months ago under company name Channel Intelligence. We want you to come and work for us, and I think he I'm trying to hurt you guys. Soul off. Right? And it took me to find your CEO on a bus in New York City. So e I had a decision to make and said Stay with affiliate manager, um, and continue to grow that order.

I work with somebody, so I went back to talk to my brother about it, and he and I decided it's s set way were kind of a duplication of each other. Um, he was justice competence. I waas, um or and so he said, we'll continue to run a 1,000,000,000 manager, you know, working channel intelligence on you don't get access to clients like Best Buy and OfficeMax and sex without it all h g and stolen on.

And you know something, You come back and we'll be able to grow this in speed and bigger back. So you know that it's a really good idea. Let's do that. Why? When I worked at Channel Intelligence for four years my first day, I met, uh

to this story. But I think this is this is where it really gets fun. So my first day, I mean, I've been training and I meet this gentleman made heaven. Weatherby, who to this day is one of my best friends in this world. This is eight years ago. I think now, by now, 10 years ago, no, 10 years

with me, who's one of my friends in this world, and his wife is merely going to be a neural psychologist who knows people. And about six months later, she says him like I got something. I want you to me and she introduces being too who is now in my life.

So for, uh, four years later, I'm just about finally me and my brother talking. We're saying, OK, it's time. I've been action Intelligence now. 456 years actually was 56 years and I'm like, OK, we've been long enough. Let's let's come back to the company. Let's leverage everything that you've learned that my expertise grow this on. And it was made a decision in October of 2012 and I said, OK, I would say for 24 and get my intelligence to for bonus in January.

Makes sense. Everybody doesn't. So then, in November, uh, the event Video intelligence. It's a different CEO in the one on the bus, but then CEO Intelligence pulls me, put me in a couple of people other into the room and said, say Google is going by us. Wow. And they do. This is they heard some Teoh, the CEO of the company, and says, if you had a narrow company down to be who did you just get down to people? And I was not one of those two people.

Uh, that's about the way

Speaker 2

I thought this was gonna turn out.

Speaker 1

I always like to see Oh, no, it wasn't me. And this is actually interesting for I think, people on the spot, especially for oppositions. The way the humble doesn't says if those two people does agree to do the things that really quiet things like move to expert on, agree to have a contract with us for X number of years and someone someone, someone moved within a certain amount of time so that those two people don't agree.

The deal's off, which I think after those two people. Yes, eso Thankfully, those people said yes that they would move the Pittsburgh and have a

And then so Google's back to the CEO and said, OK, who's your next 10? Your next 10 people that you have never down to 12 these in the next time? And I waas uh, one of those next 10. Congratulations. Hey, so much It was really cool. They Pittsburgh wind up so they kind of they treated us really well. They ended up giving us the opportunity to move to Pittsburgh, New York, Chicago, Sisto, Uh, and I chose Chicago, so that was spray for a while on.

So you kind of put a wrench in our plans for me to leave. I said, Well, now I get to say, you know, that I work who for a while and so honest working at a little after that before years. So just because you say, you know, that one that one must fried, you know, led to one of my best friends in the world the love of my life in my wife, um, in a dream job, working for rule for four years it was just and none of it would have happened if I would have just gotten on that bus and sound seat like everybody else s o.

I just seen that that critical moment in my life And say what? What's different with my life? Be today if I wouldn't have taken that initiative. It's

Speaker 2

incredible, really. And the courage that you must have had to step on a bus with 2030 40 people and said hello to each and every one of them. And given your business card, that's

Speaker 1

very impressive. Thanks, Joe. I e its courage or it's maybe lack of social skills.

I'll take whatever it is you know, here's I'll finish up the story there in a second, but, um, this is This is one of the things that I think this is critical in the success of any any business. Whenever you go to a conference monitor, my approach is everybody in that room wants to talk. There's there's a reason why topic each other, and I make sure when I talked to them, I give him a reason that they wanted to talk.

I try to be very helpful in whenever I tell them and also free consultation for as long as they need until they feel. And then if they decide to hire me, great, if they don't think up. But everyone walked away with value, so it makes it a lot easier. When you're approaching people with value on, then they truly do want to talk to. So that's all that was always continues me, my approach so amenable for three years.

And I, um this is always a sad the hard thing for me to say that my brother actually passed away in November of 2015. You know, just I can't do any justice to him right now. Trying to say how grateful we was. Just let's just take my word for it. That he was fantastic. Great guy. So let me with a decision. Do I continue a ghoul or do I leave it and go back and look at this company? I don't really That wasn't a hard decision Decided.

OK, it's the time for me to go back and go This continue to grow this stuff. Hillary thrown into 25 people well over 50 clients and just every year headed doubles of since 2012. It was really, really amazing. Some really easy decision. Move, move. I didn't find that language. And, uh, brutally manager Teoh where it is, that and way also launched, As you know, for makes somebody that

and that company was formed out of what I learned that has worked in the who collaborative Google shopping provision.

And I just learned a whole 100 What everybody does wrong s O. That was It's just a little beautiful things where I could teach you usually wait. You have when you take over somebody's paid search. Usually you gotta say, Okay, you say either gross sales or injuries from right? Well, one of those to those are different sides, right? But when they're wasted, spent and Joe, there is always I never screaming account that it doesn't have wasted spat, right? I never been approached.

With what? This is something better than others, right? Man is never Noah. You take at least spend reinvested in what's working and actually grow sales while increasing competence of state. So it's been really, really nice to be able to, um, not a maybe for some of these.

Speaker 2

Well, listen, you and I sat down at Starbucks at the rhodium weekend event last fall, and you covered some of this in a over a cup of coffee and you gave me more information that made me wish that I met you 89 years ago. Of course, you were in a different role at that point. But, you know, I think we talked about it. I spent about in my heyday about $40,000 a month on pay per click on Google with absolutely zero training.

So I can't imagine how much money I wasted over five years. Please don't do the math for me. And then, you know, when I spoke to Mark Doused here after I sold my company in 2012 through quiet like Jason Yellow. It's was my broker still here today. Mark and I talked about what my experience was and what my lack of experience Waas and my big lack of experience was affiliate marketing.

I really had no concept of it and hadn't done any of it at that point. Today, I mean have sold platforms and understand it very well. But for those listening, can you talk about affiliate marking what it is, how it works and who benefits from it for a few minutes?

Speaker 1

Sure, absolutely so way. Just anybody who isn't familiar with affiliate marketing let me start there, and then we're gonna get increasingly complex. Here is so the easiest way to explain it is online referral service, right? Think of it as somebody referred this customer and you pay that person a commission Very easy. It's all tracked online all through special links.

Sport. Move on specific, uh, promotional codes and things that right. So let me have a business pistol example just to make the TV. In people's mind, we have a 34 main entities and I'll explain their effectively here a second. You have the affiliate now. I actually don't like calling them affiliates. Publishers is sometimes on people, useful terrorist affiliates and publisher.

I actually like calling. It is a bit of it in this number, but I'll explain why in a minute. So you have affiliated with the person who owns either the website with instagram account for the Twitter account of the Facebook group or whatever ability should be. Also, let's use this just for easiness. They block right. Let's see if there's a blogger and their affiliates and they like to talk about My son likes right there, a mountain biker than avid mountain bike enthusiasts.

They really enjoy it. So they really great articles about mountain biking. And so they want to lead Teoh bikes like they need to make money into right so they might join an affiliated network. Like, say, longley right about like this. That is very a fantastic, uh, affiliate network. So let's say we join appalling and they find, um, r e I r e I out there on I think there are about and joining our e i r e I cells, not mice.

And so this longer goes, so only get special links to Ari. I puts them on their blogged. And when a customer reads their blood, clicks on their specially lands on our EI and makes a purchase, a bottling tracks it and use the blogger a commission. So that's just a brief description of how the world works My company affiliate minute dot com, or we commit.

We kind of interact with coal. The affiliates end. The never on the advertising are really gonna beat the intermediary around all three. For the advertising. We find more affiliates for the advertiser. We get more way. Find the Rights network for the networks. We confined advertising. So we again when I walk into that conference, I have something to talk to everybody about why that's that's really my purse.

So that's such kind of the ecosystem of it. Now that's really basic. Let me Do you have any questions on that before I get a little bit more

Speaker 2

well for people that are listening that have a, you know, a business that they're trying to grow to get, you know, the value of it higher, then be the ari eyes of the world, Or maybe not I guess they could be all three. We've had bloggers that sell content sites when we have people with physical product sites as well.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it's a little bit so it's difficult to be both, but you can be the key to being both. So let me let me give you why Affiliates typically don't like that If I want a 1,000,000,000 it on that blogger and I said, Listen, it's not Ari Islands. It's, ah, a minute size from the area in a smaller size company that this slaughter is sending two.

And let's say they shall water loss right. It's a lot of model company that basically made it a mountain bike racks for whatever leaves. And so they say, Well, we sell these water bottles. We have all these mountain bikers that come in and do it well and then turn around and be affiliate for Ari eyes love. So now this longer that does not.

Biking might be sending traffic to this water bottle company who's then turning around and competing with that blogger for traffic to Arianna, right? So it's a little scary for the lawyer to send it to someone who's always also acting as affiliated unless now that water model company does. It makes you want to track what's going on and actually reverse and pays that original longer for the traffic that they said

no doesn't want to send traffic to the site that they don't get to practice speaking over.

Speaker 2

So someone with a let's say, an e commerce site if they want. Oh, actually, you know what if it's somebody with 100% Amazon say we're always preaching multiple streams of income and the low hanging fruit. People that are successful on Amazon are really good at that, but not necessarily driving traffic through Google, so your performance company could certainly help with that.

But on the affiliate side, it seems to me like it is low hanging fruit because you don't have to develop that, that that organic traffic with the network, that's what the blogger start, right?

Speaker 1

Right? I necessarily related it is easier, and there's already on audience to capture. So I think I think that's what you mean by the low hanging fruit. Yeah, there's already the audience capture. It is a little bit like a CEO, though, so isn't as quick as something I can add words that you can turn on immediately. It's a little bit. It s because you do have to go in, cultivate these relationships.

My company actually literally fixing the phone and calls these affiliates and says, Hey, we want you to promote explains on your remote mountain bikes, right? Send emails or trying to meet with them at conferences Things like that. So easy Business development type relationship

Speaker 2

with that. So when Let's say somebody has ah supplements company and they want to grow that business they call affiliate manager. They tell me how the structure works. Give just for people listening that have no experience with affiliate marketing

Speaker 1

way actually do its It's funny that you use supplements because we actually really well supplement companies. So we had one. They call the something said way have on affiliate program. We're on X Y Z working. I don't want to call them out because we didn't They were not doing well in this network. And part of our analysis is your on wrong network.

So don't don't go there. So they hired us way launch you on. Actually, I don't know the one that I heard earlier launch on appalling we immediately took from I'm not gonna get away their numbers, but a low percentages from zero to about 20% of their online business does in a year. On the other, believing program was absolutely incredible success.

They were ecstatic with the results. That's OK. Tell me more about what happened physically. They hired us one of only on and then we, for them, particularly realized that instagrammers were really important for them. So instagrammers, especially in the fitness world, are very, very populous. And think about Instagram, is he not? You only get one leak on your entire extreme a while so they can just use one link for all of their affiliate programs.

So we, uh, him about strategy to give out specific promotional codes. So it was on This is definitely on me. But it was like a body builder that was usually the supplement. And we might get him, like code my 10 and he gets to the then turn around and say, you know, here's a picture of me flexing and it says, you know, uh, thank you, X Y z supplement company.

You can get this too this too long. But you get my point, uh, uses calling my 10 to 10% or something like that on so that their followers and grab code my 10 went to the supplement company on Made a Purchase using that told my 10 that track actually affiliate even without the use of a leading in the

Speaker 2

commission. It does. And is it a fixed percentage of the revenue? Is it a guarantee cost per acquisition with affiliate marketing? How does it work? How does I think that's how it works from in most cases? But you tell

Speaker 1

me, yeah, typically does work in that case, but I like to say a hands on the client's goals right, and it also depends on where the fine is in there. I call it an awareness cycle, so I'll give you an example. If we're managing best five, I'm not going to say that's easy, but that's easier, right? I can walk them to unaffiliated say, Hey, we want to promote the best fly and they say, Sure, they're not gonna say it Got a lot of that now if its way had 11 prospect come those recently amazing product, they actually sold like this is for kids for literally years to improve their past.

It was it was really, really incredible. Like the king, our offices. I want outside. I'm swinging the bat. I was having a good time, but they literally just finished developing the product. They didn't have some like major leaguers, you know, endorsing the product. You know, readyto go on TV or whatever to do it. The problem is, they had zero awareness nobody.

You up, right? So there's really important metrics. And this is why I'm pausing this and then six years over to how we approach relates and how anybody on your podcast to do it as well. But I think it's important to know why we need to have the specific metrics and when somebody is ready and when you wouldn't be able to pay strictly on a prospect position basis or when they would need to pay something like a sponsored post.

See things that way, we'll finish up this this story we go OK, so I referred to earlier that I don't like to call police, affiliates, publishers or whatever, because it's a bit of us on this number, and the reason why I say that because there's business just may just you just just like the coming of sira. And they have inventory, right? Just like my inventory is the bandwidth of my employees.

Three e commerce company, their inventory, physical inventory. Use a blogger again as an example. Their inventory is a number of pixels on their site, right. And they have to give away a large chunk of that space, uh, to a client if they want, and they need to make a much money as possible, right? Also that inventory someone we approached them.

Sorry. Let me weigh. Have multiple ways of monetizing that space. Right? Taken Do banish sales. AdSense sponsored posts Amazon Associates, the Amazon affiliate program in its own bucket because that their their own beasts on then, of course, other affiliate programs. And someone is gonna someone. But those were really the made five anybody competing with.

So these affiliates will. It is actually been deeper than this just for east safe on this podcast, they will normalize how they make money across these multiple monetization methods down to what's called e p C earnings. Just to be clear, I use CPC as an earnings for one place some other networks in such use earnings for Easy and Pretty for 100 clicks.

OK, I'm doing it for one. So how do you like? That's pretty easy. And again, affiliates typically go one stage deeper into earnings for basically impression. But just to be safe, that's a much harder math calculation to do on a live broadcast. But anyway, on ABC it if you have had since earnings per click is easy, you make a dollar 20 upper click your A B.

C's a Dollar 25 Super Easy on banning Sales. Um, you know, you make a $5 CPM and you get five klicks from it. You know, whatever that math comes out to be, that's gonna be your PC for sponsored posts if you charge $5 for a sponsored post and you get, you know, 250 clicks for that but 50 cents, it's like right

anyway, time matters little. I

Speaker 2

was impressed that you were even doing it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, you just get down to the normalization. Here's how much you're making per click affiliate markings. Actually, this is This is actually where it's really complicated. There's how in this power in this s o don't be scared away by this. This is this is actually where the power really working. It's all of the difference between affiliate marketing.

All those others. All the others are guarantee payment methods. Right? If I am a sponsored post, I get the $500 a month. If I put these the banner, I can't guarantee 60. Anna, Um, if I actually, like in the Bering Sea play right with 1,000,000,000 Mark, I'm kind of shooting the risk from the advertiser over me. Right? So they have to be compensated for the rest of their taking on that.

So But that's okay. They again this power. So we think you comfortably PPC for affiliate marketing is you take the conversion rate times the commission percentage times the average order value. This is for e commerce. Honestly, for lead based programs is a little bit different. But again for commerce is conversion rate is the average order value times a commission.

Okay, So you must get, uh, any PC, just let's do in, for example, just so people can see if you have a 2% deliberate, which is pretty standard $100 a or B and a 30% commission percentage has to be a 60 70 PC Now the power in the killing marketing gonna keep on recurring, too. It's All of those numbers are managing right. The ability it can improve upon their AdSense very much speaks that they do.

They can't really change the banners that show up. They can try to charge a little bit more for their spots. Also, there's gonna be a limited to satisfy I'll, but with a 1,000,000 marking every change if they can tweet their contact to release the convergence rate from 2 to 3% if they tweak, I think it worked with the advertiser. Do now offer a coupon code with for 10 person on orders over $150.

I remember I said the A O. B was 100 but now we're giving a 10% off 150 let's see that increases the average order value from 102 120. But I guess people are adding more to their heart and the advertiser they would be an effective and given 40% commission now 40% times 128 Aerovias, 48 times 3%. Now you just turned that into I don't know.

I think it's a dollar 28 or something like that. You can significantly, Ingres. How much that was work by BBC. Each of those individual aspects of the

Speaker 2

Got it. Yep, how and in terms of the scalability aspect, when you get to these numbers in you tweak it. Let's say you're a physical product advertiser, and you're calling the different loggers, right? That's that's what he Philly manager would do to try to grow it. How How scalable are these things? Let's say again, in this case of a supplement company.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so it's very seal, actually. So e a hell of a misconception, because it's just more be a no, a good affiliate program. Um, my only have big blocks, maybe 100. You know, I've never seen a program with more than 202 150 solid affiliates in the program

Speaker 2

and defined program for me once again real

Speaker 1

quickly. So just program the relationship between an advertiser, the ari I, and a network along. So that's a program. Okay, thanks for that. I get stuck sometimes and my world of knowledge and, uh and don't explain. So yeah, it's, you know, people think I'm gonna have thousands of people. Are thousands of these a flight? You have thousands.

You will have thousands of affiliates in your program, but you will have by 10% of them that are after than actually generating clicks and sales revenue. Unless you're somebody like best right is gonna have, you know, tens of thousands of affiliates active Amazon is gonna have tens of thousands of a deadly attack right now an individual, smaller or mid sized advertiser.

It's not not going to have that we actually managed. Somebody was in the Internet retailer top team on they were in the hundreds. So that's that's not It's just not typical. And and actually you you almost want to be a little bit more 50 at that time because you have to be yet a protective branch a little bit right, and the wider that you go, the more difficult because in

Speaker 2

terms of where it shows up, what logs it shows up on, make sure the contents appropriate, that sort of thing

Speaker 1

exactly. And there's also things like FTC compliance. So this is really good for your audience. who may not be familiar with Billy marking up and please, You know, I just signed this Teoh for you guys know this. Don't be scared away. This is very simple to do. But you do have to make sure that your affiliates are are complying with FCC disclosure policy.

C stands for trade commission. And you never heard of it. I know you have, Jones. Thanks.

Speaker 2

You know, of course. How does one you know, an advertiser? Make sure the blogger is FTC complaint. Is that something that avant link would do or something that affiliate manager does?

Speaker 1

Yeah. That's something that we would handle. So they had an affiliate manager in housing, and we work with companies that that had a really amenity was already on. Then they hire us for supplementary type help. Or they might hire us for all of it, right? Yes. Lonely does not manage that. That's not part of the responsibility. Never. That's not just about no network.

I know. You know of any sort of actually, Skip spoke a 1,000,000,000 manager or their agency like us that would be responsible for that. And all of it is I just want to make sure that is your body doesn't audit every month. I guess your affiliates to me. Sure, um, if they're promoting your products, that they're disclosing that they're getting compensated for that

Speaker 2

remote. Okay, if they've got that somewhere on their website in terms of the policies

Speaker 1

and it's not just somewhere it has to be above where the lake is. Has to be clear. Can be in a different candy white color on a white age. I have to say certain things, Um, and if they were good monetary value, you have toe clothes that they were given. Is

Speaker 2

that as simple as when I see Google at its has sponsored at That's the disclosure. It's an

Speaker 1

entire article that is a sponsor that e. I think it would have to be a little bit more than that because it's content. So it's not like mobile ad where it's very clear that it's just on advertising article. So, actually, if editing sound from that allowed to save your job. But if you don't affiliate, manage dot com scroll to the bottom, there's enough to seek implants.

Link Click on that, and we basically over everything that anybody needs to know we give it away for free, just for I actually

Speaker 2

want. I felt like we were getting into the weeds here and you want So manage it right? Or about like it's were you actually is. Affiliate manager would manage that aspect of it, right? I don't have to. If I've got, let's say, thousands of affiliates bloggers that are marketing or putting my adds up, how do I do? I have to really worry about focusing on auditing 1000 every month, or is that something that is automated in some way?

Speaker 1

Yeah, so we automated. We have a tool that automates, so that makes it so

Speaker 2

great. So that's that's great, cause that would be a barrier that I would think most people wouldn't want to dio. I know you can't quote exact numbers, but, you know, tell me numbers for people that are listening that are either bloggers or our products owners. What kind of revenue can be made in terms of the blogging side of it? Just an average.

I know it's hard, it's impossible, but give me a couple of examples. If

Speaker 1

you use a spectrum and the spectrum that it's amazing to me sometimes I feel like I'm in the wrong business when I cut these checks to do some of these affiliates. You know, of course, there's all the way down to zero, right? Some people might make nothing doing this if they don't do it the right way. Some one affiliate, Actually, I like to think about it.

They said it. I feel like I work at a rest at a grocery store. And I only hated people come from my line right on. That's true On so part of our job is to help them get more people through their mind. Monetize that on the flip side, I mean, we've seen feeling and this is this is what it just drives me crazy. They may, of course, gonna be members of multiple affiliate progress.

So when they're remember ours way know that it's just one of many. And I'll give one example of travel. So we had when travel clients and we had multiple affiliates and we're a very small fish in this very large travel world. And one affiliate from just our program, which was the smallest of the many wayward Expedia, weren't, uh, orbits or whatever we were this super stolen.

And we were coming in the check for $30,000 a month for our program. One guy eating his garage

website, making just Ghoulam's money, uh, a travel affiliate. And so I can't imagine what you know expedience of the others were paying aside. We were in him 30 grand plus month.

Speaker 2

That's incredible. That's incredible. I can see why you think maybe I'm in the wrong business. When you cut a check like then you think about the margins in the overhead and a lack of headaches. They have by working out of the garage affiliate manager itself, your company. Does it specialize in any particular type of log content or any physical types of products on both sides of spectrum

Speaker 1

there. So no way don't have Teoh. So, uh, I try to stay away from talking about you know, I want to

Speaker 2

talk about you. That's what I talk about it. That's what I want to know. People listening to you there, there wondering what your specialty is. And I think you and I talked at one point again at Starbucks back there and in Vegas there was a particular product or category. You said Hey, look, if you guys, if ever come across somebody like this, send them my way because I can make him a boatload of money.

Tell me about those particular types of products there in the buggers in and they choose that they write about what's really a strong

Speaker 1

Yeah. So I would say, uh, one year I know you're referring to is anything in the sweet Mitch? Oh, man way Just really Well, in the sleep it So please, please, please come to us. If you have any things, think we're really good. But the reason why I see it doesn't it doesn't necessarily matter, is just we I like to say that we're a technology company that has a 1,000,000,000 mark on the reason why I say that is because of things like the technology to monitor EPC or we have a technology that way have this incredible.

Those, especially me is made are heard of Google or affiliates where we basically, despite of the Internet and based off of certain signals, were able to identify sites that monetize using a 1,000,000,000. I say it that way because again they might be monetizing using asset school, but way able to identify a site that used affiliate least.

And then we ingest inventory motivation that we can conduct searches against base for particular flights.

Speaker 2

Okay, and then you reach out to that list as well. That's how you've got staff that will actually make physical phone calls, make actual phone calls to reach out to them to advertise.

Speaker 1

That's exactly right. So we get them in week are three things like their traffic rating and some will privatize will say Okay, this one gets the highest traffic. Let's go get that one. That's gonna get us the most return for investment in terms of time trying outreach. And you worked with the client to say, OK, we'll send them a Ah, for example, that's, uh, you know, let's let's all from a hybrid model.

And so this is actually going back to your other question with How do we know How do you approach them? Or is it a sickly CK? It depends, right? So I'm going back to that and saying, You know, for a brand new product that has no awareness, we might say we need to pay a promotional host. Be irresponsible city because we don't know what the converted rate is.

Oh, I don't know what the average order value is, so we don't know. We can offer thes affiliates right now. Having said Yeah,

Speaker 2

that makes sense. Hey, jumping onto the performance company, you know, again over coffee and just talking to people. That's right again. These events are so important for those that don't goto the events and are uncomfortable with it. Give it a shot. I I wasn't comfortable early on, but I was in Cancun and somebody walked up to me and a group of other people that were talking, and he just started bobbing his head to say, Yeah, that makes sense.

He's like and then he starts to introduce himself, and I thought, That's great. Everybody welcomed them. He just started toe, you know, make make friends and where he and I are connected now through through business. But you and I were talking about the other company that you own. That sort of came out of your experience at Google, which is the performance company.

And again I dropped 40,000 month at one point on pay per click with no experience, and you started talking about guaranteed cost per acquisition. And, you know, my antenna went up in all this different aspects. But can you talk about that? Just just a little bit. Ramos running out of time here. But I do want to touch on that.

Speaker 1

Hurt her. So when I left Google, one of the things I saw and this is all this has been a hot topic for a couple years now is no attribution We are sales truly coming from. So if you look at your affiliate program and all this, use these two particular ones and this applies every every mark until whether the email or soulful or whatever. But I'm just usually super uses of these two that we do and we do really well.

So if you look at your program and you drove a $1,000,000 in sales and you look at your a search meat, you throw a $1,000,000 in sales two million. But then you doing you look in your analytics a drop of 1.5 million a sales spike. So there was overlap there. And so how did that to me is wasted sent, right, so we can identify. OK, what really did generating a sale.

And let's reinvest in that just this times where the Pacers to credit for something that should went to a 1,000,000,000 times where affiliates of court it or what should win Teoh shirt and maybe study been taking complete credit. Maybe it's a little bit of shifting credit. Okay, we're gonna get affiliated. 10% credit for this and paychecks 90% and, ah, lot budgets appropriately.

And so that way of saying that and say instead of reinvesting where we're gonna have increased for that, let's decrease. See over that it's attribute appropriately get you grew at 1.5 to 2.5 with the same bunch, right? So that's what I thought when I talked a little bit earlier about finding that we cease wasted spend. That's what I'm talking about.

And then I get reinvesting that to growing overall sales and sometimes wait. You mentioned here a couple minutes ago. We are very confident and in our ability to when we search for companies so much so that way they put us way use our out. We pay the cost, we send the track to them on. Then we send an invoice for the row as bowl at the end of the next council.

For example, if your goal is a two, that means you need a 21 And that means if we drove you $500,000 in sales, that we're gonna invoice you 250,000. That's a guarantee to the one we turn on. And there's no evangel. What's about it? Way spent $300,000 to get you that someone else, and we just lost $50,000. If we spent 235,000 to get you that doesn't we just need We're just extremely competent and are really easy to make.

And we will take advertisers off multiple ranges anywhere from as little as 5 $10,000 a month that they're currently spending that little we know we can grow it and me, their punches intimidated. But they're like, Well, I don't know if I can same or because I'm not getting my goals already. Why put more money into this, right? So send that our way and no, I, of course, reserve the right after reviewing their compensate.

No, this is this is not gonna work for you, but if I see potential and it will take it, and we'll spend their own money to get them where they need to be

Speaker 2

awesome. I again wish we met eight years ago before I sold. But then again, I'm loving what I do hear it quietly. So maybe not so. Anybody listening. I think they should reach out to you in terms of the affiliate marketing. So that's affiliate manager dot com and then, in terms of the paid advertising, the performance company dot com. That's right, right? Any last starts for anybody that might be listening in terms of trying to grow their business either on either side affiliate marketing or paid spending.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so one last thing I want to make sure that this one's got this is both quirkily marketing at eight. Search. A lot of times the approach of advertisers is, you know, how did I get how I capture more sales? And the way that I always tell people is if you gave us 100 percent of yourself, which is force, it's a silly, but let's pretend like you said Okay, I sell this this this witchy, and I'm going to be 100% of the sales to capture value.

We're gonna capture ah, large ports in the market, but for sure, improbable. But it's 90% and you were captured less in the market, but a good part of it. But it is so improbable. 80%. 70%. 66. At what point do you become probable where we capture the most of the market? And so that's foundation approach, how they're setting their goals around, how much they need to spend into some of these areas in order to grow their business.

To me, that's the biggest tease. When somebody tries to come to us and says, I want to have an affiliate program, I love a 5%. We turn him away because we know we're not gonna get value for that. I think there's snow really do it now 30 30 40 50% on similar type rock. So it's just funny that way. Always ask for where did you come up with me so well? I saw my competitive Yeah, that's what they put out.

That's not they're actually paying. So anyway, that's I think I would leave your audience, make sure that you are, you're approaching it just like any other channel that you're looking at it as strength against your probability. In terms of market, your

Speaker 2

excellent. That's That's because it's not about how much you know revenue you drive. It's how much money you get to keep it the end of the day. And that's where the value the business comes in as well. If they ever decide to sell the business, it's a multiple off what's left over for the owner after all those expensive like this has been fantastic.

I learned a ton, and I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on. I'll let you know when it airs, but we'll put all the links and everything in the show notes and hopefully lots of folks who reach out to Thanks for your time today. Thanks for listening to another episode of the Quiet Light podcast. For more Resource is from this episode, head over to Quiet light brokerage dot com.

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