All right, this is Sally ft.

And this is heating shop.

And in today's episode, we're gonna talk about how to become more thoughtful

way like talking about more than your

sales or market. We just want a bullshit and chat about business and life. And hopefully, while we're doing that, provide along value Teoh for people trying to get shit done way. Don't want to give you feedback.

That's bullshit. You want you to do your best.

Now, let me. This could be this If I read the title of the episode four part is that said how to be more thoughtful, I'd be like, Let me skip this one. Right?

First of all, don't skip this one. Today seems to be esoteric day. Yes.

So this might be one of the most important discussions we've ever had. Let's see if we could keep keep it. That probably gonna deliver. Yeah, eso He is what? I want to talk about this. Okay there. So that the last two weeks there has been a number of moments in discussions with people in my team and my family or people that advise people that that are friends will start up. Founders where in a very short period of time, like they would describe something to me and I would look at it and it was glaringly. It would be literally, glaringly obvious that there's something missing here on I would ask. Well, what about this obvious thing? And there would be no answer to it. And one way or another, people would be like, Oh,

you should think

about I don't think about that. Yes, that's the money. That's the money the money said in Seo. I didn't think about that.

So I got a quick aside. Yes, I keep staring at the water I have here. Yes, and I think you're really thoughtful. For every time I show up. There's always a lot around the coaster that's on my side. Yes, thank you. You're welcome. Yeah, I wanted to be taken care. Appreciate that. There's an example of you being thoughtful in a little way, which is actually kind of the tip. Yeah, just start being thoughtful in little ways and my help and thoughtful for other people.

So it's a practice, right? Yes, but how do we get there? So my what I want to get too, because they were like yesterday. I didn't with my co funded A and I told him about one little thing that happened and we were crying, laughing like in a painful way was like half half laughing or I'm kind of like I was just like it was I don't know what it was like. A make sure off like it was an example of somebody being really thought less about something Innocents way just made us go. My God, why, Yeah, People have thinking things through and sort something. I'm struggling with it. I'm wondering How can I help people to be more fun for How do you even do this? Because it seemed like the thing where if I told somebody being more thoughtful, that next question to me is how to do

that or

I'm already got or, well, the benefit, the benefit of my life Is that the people that I've taught that that told this this It's several where enough I'll be like OK, yeah, should. But they either. They struggled to get there. They started to get the struggle to know what to do together in the past. A lot of times the advice that I've given to people where things like well, take more time and and more focused or something. So don't do it while you're listening to music answering emails. Don't rush into this three minutes before the meeting. Like, make sure you take spent more time in a more calm environment and thinking it through all angles. What could steady say about this? What?

What happens next is a big It's a big component of this, right? Oh, if we do X, y and Z what happens next? What happens next? What happened? Six. I thinking into the future, which is something I was wondering about with the water example you brought up is you know, why do I not forget this? Why do you always do this? Is because before you show up, I'll imagine you coming food all imagine sitting us down and then I know I want you to order. We're talking for an hour, and I will If there's something on this table,

you know, that I don't want you to see, like, thinking picture me or something else. How rcm that like Sam? So I think through what's gonna happen next one away? Yeah, it's experience to be and and I'll pick up on fixed versus I notice. A lot of times, people don't think into the future ahead of what's hap happens next. So you show up and this room is a mess, and they don't have the leapt up open. And they're like, Oh, shit, I don't know.

Where's the software to record this? No. Do you need water? And to me, that is like not thinking. I had a few steps and give you a 50 minute. Somebody's gonna show up. What can I do to prepare this?

And we always have limited time? Yes, right? Just in general. Does that make sense on your framework around it? Yeah. So I wanted to look up the definition of thought. Love it. Yes. And there's three. Okay, one to these air definitions of thoughtful one is absorbed in or involving thought. Ok. Example is brows drawn together in thoughtful consideration. I don't think that's the number one, but it is not what we're actually talking about, right?

So that's interesting that that's the 1st 1 And I think that's one reason why when you say it, people don't fully internalized because they're like, Oh, I think a lot of thoughtful way. Hold on. Number two. I think we're getting better. Is showing consideration for the needs of other people. Eso that's he was attentive and thoughtful. Okay, so you could say that half of the water is that Yes, right. The other one, which is the 3rd 1 is showing careful consideration or attention. Yeah, I would say the other half.

Is that right of like what? What's the experience? What we gotta do here? How do we save time while the consideration of other people's ill? I have one or he might as well have water, for example. So I think I think we could start there and say, Well, like, you know, you If you're in a situation where someone else is involved, you should be thoughtful about what's gonna happen. What? The experiences together. Yeah, but it's pretty simple one. And that's one where I bet the best salespeople are really thoughtful when

they get on the thumb. Yeah, there really are people, people. I mean, anyone that is in a position that requires them to influence others. Salespeople do that for a living Leaders. Many found a lot of ways. Do this when you have to communicate influence, you know, being thoughtful makes a picture for seven they're thinking about via looking at the world from the other person's perspective and taking that into consideration in your actions and the things you're trying to accomplish. The big A big part

of that, Yeah, And you know, that's like That's just being human in a lot of ways, right? And think about other people.

That's not really what I wanted

to talk about that issue. 1/3 example, that's everyone is showing careful consideration or attention. Yes, so in a lot of cases, I think what you're referring to, in some ways is attention to detail. It's a detail it zitel to have the water there. It's a detail to have your laptop open and the recording software ready before we start the frame and get here. It's a detail to clean up your death so that I have places to put my long arms right. OK, fair, for example, yes, but ah,

lot of times the struggle I have, I'm not sure if it's the detailed, the lack of attention to detail by food that matters. It is a I would verbalize this. It's saying this person didn't think this through. Like they they Let's say we go. Well, I'm gonna, you know, launch this product and sell it to a 1,000,000 people. And then you go interesting. How do you reach these people? And I go. Oh,

good question. I didn't think about that. Yes. Don't tell me you're going to reach a 1,000,000 people.

Yeah, right you faces is exactly that, right? It's my face. Yeah, I know when you hear that, right? Right. Thing this sent out this may sound stupid to many people that are this knows what. Obviously stupid now it isn't, but it isn't. But also, this is an obvious example. But it can give you 100 example that might not sound this stupid to you. Where you thought about step wanted to, and that's where you stopped. And you're like,

let's do this. When I ask about Step through, you go. Oh, I don't know.

And then you have to go back to the drawing board. And you wasted some time. You know, you could just have a value that says be thoughtful. Be thoughtful. Yeah, but how

did people prime this? This like how? What is the actionable? I want you to be more thoughtful. So she is my advice or what you should

be doing. Okay, So give something super tangible, right? I believe this is the reason why Amazon every meeting has the the leader in the meeting or whatever. The person organizing the meeting, right, A two pager about what? That meetings about in, like, the specific topic. And they've been thorough and attentive to detail. And if they aren't, the meeting ends before it starts. Right. Where's your two pager? Right, that I'm sure there's people in Amazon saying that all the time. So I think the first level is know that you wanted attention to detail in your company. The second level is create systems so that you're sort of making sure everyone has.

So why do you so like, if you ask me and I had somebody asked me this. So some of the recent was like I somebody that that I've challenged on this thought from this thing. Many times he presented a plan to me, and then it didn't ask some some to me, obvious questions. And some of them make he did a better job than it used to. Saw the progression skill. He did well, but there were still some really obvious things to me and gaps. And he got so upset with himself. And he was like, Do I spent so much time thinking about this? I spent so much time asking myself, What will Stelly Consoli say here, trying to let challenge myself in all directions and still motherfucker, like the first question

you asked. I

didn't know I had it out. Answer. How the What the fuck am I supposed to do here? Right, So and And then he asked Why Why are you thinking this way like huh? And I don't have a good answer to this. I don't know,

like I don't know. Let's let's play out the role there. Yeah, I would say that if I got presented with that problem, uh, and, uh, person I would and this is more of a management thing. I I would actually try to figure out how to get in their process earlier and give him the feedback earlier. So this is assuming they spent. They said they spend all that energy time or not, they spent a lot of energy. So for me, it's like, Okay, so next time, start with a skeleton outline of that thing.

Let me give you feedback on that. Then once you fill in, I give you feedback on that, right? So share earlier with me would be my response to that person. So if you're really concerned about like me so much, share it earlier. Let's let's align on it before you spend so much energy on Yeah, this is so don't hide it for me. That's another statement I've made two team members. Don't hide it for me because, like, I don't want to wait three days. Look at him like Buck like you gotta go spend another three days on or whatever. Instead, show me in an hour, then show me in a day.

So that's a good one, actually. Want where that has been a recurring theme trying Teoh and helping people to do that where you don't want them to spend a lot of time in that present a final product, whatever that is planned idea thought. But like again, you involved in an integrative

approaches fellow like you cover, they call it. Get by it. Yes. Get the buying earlier.

Get it earlier. The other thing is a lot of times what I observed on that we talk about this is that people jump into the details to quickly versus staying. Like I think most people are not used to thinking about things on a high enough level, with enough perspective to go again to go. What is the most important thinking? What is the problem we're trying to solve? We do we have a lineman off the problem? What are potential solutions on a really high level? Can't do we know how to execute the solutions and then at the final stage, once we have a live in a problem and solution but put on a plan on how to execute this, which most people just go, we need mawr, whatever it is, more traffic to our site and they they lay out a plan which is basically 100 different mood, detailed tactics to get more traffic. But there's like there's a lack off strategy behind all of this right, and that a lot of times also that like lacking thinking about things of a high enough level and making sure is there's clarity and alignment off these things before I jump into details is also something that I find that I would then verbalize s. Somebody didn't think this through.

Okay, So as you were talking before you said the word alignment, that word was in my head. I'm glad you said that like five times. Yes, we have Episode 76 on startup team alignment I'm doing, I'm learning. I think that's a really great example of how you prevent this lack of thoughtfulness by actually making sure that everything you do, you're aligned, right? And it's a line. But really, in a lot of these cases, if you're you're the one responsible for helping them execute on that thing and bared presenting it to you, they need alignment with you. So getting the buy and constantly helps them get alignment. The other thing I thought of is Episode 1 40 The power of writing because you can't get a lineman unless you write something down.

Uh huh. Is that true? That is so true. Think about it like it's just like I think we've talked about it even in that one. But basically what we said and what I remember and just What I believe is that if we say it, let's see there's 1/3 person here and we're both trying to get him to do something right, cause that happens a lot in company. Not one person trying to get somebody to do something are explain a problem or whatever. You're gonna say something. I'm going to say something. That person isn't gonna interpret both those things in different ways, and we intend it. And then when there's tool them coming out, the person, that person, if they just go execute,

it's probably not aligned with what we want it, even though we might think we were aligned. And then we said the same thing to the person. It was a line. That person's interpretation of it might not be so. The thing you can do is all the tricks we said in that episode. But one key one in my mind is just like write it down right after the meeting. So if that person wants to be proactive and becoming more thoughtful, they would send an email to both of us, saying, I heard this from you. This from you and this is what I'm gonna do as a result, and here are areas around conflicted, and I don't know what I should. I'm giving a very common scenario. How you having two bosses,

so to speak, cause that happens a lot where there's two people trying to tell you what to do. Now, if it's just one on one, you might think that's not important. But again, your words are not intern always interpreted in the way you intend they never are, actually, so you have to get a lineman on. Did you hear what I said? Did you understand what it waas? So the best way to do it is give them a quick homework thing you wanna line, but you talk about something, give him homework to write it down or do the homework yourself and send over an email and say blah, blah, blah.

Right. So, you know, I am actually hiring a contractor for something who I worked with in the past and what my partner and I did before we even brought her on or anything was right up the whole plan ourselves of. Here's what we believe we're gonna do. And here's what the schedule is roughly not even day by day, just like you know, by end of month or by beginning of month and things like that. And then we got alignment on that, and then we made the contract in the agreement, and now the person we hired is gonna fill out the details and then we'll get alignment on that, and she's already been starting to do that. But we could have just hired her and say We're gonna work on this. Here is the high level things we're gonna do. But if we had no schedule, how we're gonna have any alignment on her capabilities in her ability to execute on that because she just contractor and she's gonna do in part time.

So, to me, alignment is how you can hope people be more thoughtful because you're aligning on all the details. Yeah, and they aren't details like the weeks like here, all the tactics, there are more details. And here's the plan. It has a lot to do with planning.

Yeah, I love that. The word alignment has been really powerful. I've seen this come up in our company after this episode. Oftentimes when there will be conflict and then somebody would say I actually, don't think we disagree. I think we just are not aligned on this yet. So

So it's a misalignment. Is a company

killer? Yeah. Yeah, it's a big So you touched on something else that's really important, which is people. Yeah, we talked about this kind of on the periphery with the water. You taking care of the human to thinking considered of other humans? Ah, lot of times plants. People said the They think about a plan or something they want to do, and they're not considering the humans involved carefully enough. And the humans can be the people that need to execute this. But the humans could also be in their bosses or colleagues. It could be the other competitors and how they will react or the customers and prospects they don't think about. Like, I had this thing other day where somebody sent me an email and goes,

Hey, we want to send an outbound cold and campaign want to test this out, and this is gonna be the email that we're gonna send. And my reply was, have you ever They used a tactic that I actually said he is going to be successful in getting people to open it. But my piss people off.

And I'm like, this is something you said

before a I'm like, Did you Did you hear what I said about this is like you said, it's good for open, but it might create problems. I'm like, OK, do me a favor. And some of this question if you put yourself in the shoes off this cool prospect, who is this person? Well, it's a founder of a startup that is so in so many custom. Okay, imagine you're that person and you receive this email and you read the subject line. What do you think? I think this is this. You open it and then you read this. What is your thought process?

And he's like, Damn, I was like, Well, I would think Fuck you, asshole. Way people s. So why would we sent this fucking email them, right? I mean, what is the? And I think that this is one example. But the perspective that we take is I want people to open the email and I want people response. I'm gonna try to do these cool, hacky thing, but I don't think about it from the receipt on the receiving end.

What is the person's experience with this email? But it also oftentimes, look at this conversation yesterday where we'll have a plan and I go. In theory, I like this. This all makes sense. But now let's challenges with the reality of the humans that need to execute this. Who is gonna be doing what? And that person never thought about that component like right? Let's think it out through together. Who is owning that first bullet? Ma le. It's me, Okay, who holds the second bullet wound?

It's May. So in our in our plan that we gave to that contractor, every

single item had who's responsible was responsible. Yeah, it's that simple. And then you know what? I want you to tell me who's responsible. And then I want you to take a moment and ask yourself, Can this person should this person be responsible? Because

that's when you're putting something on somebody else? Yeah,

sure, it is this wishful thinking. Yeah, but is this giving the right test of the right person where they can succeed and the task will succeed like this is thinking about the plant. But that thinking who are the humans.

How are we going to get it done?

Who's gonna be responsible? And can these people do these things? But we just saying, We'll I don't want to do You don't want to do it So this pressure should be doing it or, well, we already allocated all the right people with the right point. That's the last thing that somebody needs to do. So we're just gonna give it to somebody. I

know you're almost saying everyone. He's been many manager. Yeah, course. That's how you be more thoughtful. Yeah, you need to well, manage yourself better. Just make sure that whatever you need to get done gets managed to Yeah

and the. But the way you do that is not by saying, Here's what needs to get done. Let's just that lets end there. It's also not besting. Here's what needs to get done. Let's just give it to somebody. It's asking yourself. Okay, here's what needs to get done. Can we do it? Who can do it? Who should do it and then if your team or the humans involved with this, if that doesn't go, If that that formula doesn't work out, you need to come up with a new one. You can't just go.

Well, we want to do 400 things, but we only two people can only really do two things. Well, well, but we want 406. Like that's not how reality works. You need to Then go. Well,

what are you gonna get? Those times and you will be realized. You get four done. You're not 400.

Alright. Show one of the most important fans. And they were saying, Well, force, not enough. Well, then we know now we need to hire way. Need to contract. Just go. We want it. So we wanted

and we won't. We're just

gonna go at it. We're just gonna go at it. But we're not gonna like this is to me. We need to consider who will actually do all this work. And can they do it at the time is the right time to do these things to consider the

primitive Also. So I think that's great. And I'll give 11 other lens on it before we go to tips. Yep. Uh, think about the outcome. Because a lot of times you forget the outcome in all of this, right? You start with an outcome, you say all we want to accomplish, You know, we want to get more marking channels, right? And then you might list out a bunch of tactics. Okay? That's the wrong way. Already decided that,

uh, you probably need a pick, a few of them, and then you gotta figure out who's gonna do it. But what's your outcome? I'm trying. Get more traffic. So you have to You have to marry a plan. And the people again, some kind of outcome or your your whole thoughtfulness breaks apart because someone can challenge you easily and say, Well, what are we gonna accomplish with that? And I think that's such a fundamental thing to being thoughtful that you could even forget in a plan like that. So if you have these 400 things, your outcome originally was all we need to get a whole bunch of shit done. Well,

that's not That's not good. That's not the right outcome. It's more of the outcome we should have is like out of the things we could do. What are the right four things to do, and then outcome of those four things What are we trying to accomplish? So I think a lot of times people will get more attentive to detail when there's alignment on the outcome. So I do that a lot in our companies, which is basically often times will say it like this. Like I don't care how we do it. What I do care about is that we get that outcome. So whatever plan you have, I need you to have confidence that we're gonna get that outcome. But the reason I do that is I don't want to micromanage people unless they desert just totally fine. I could do that to nobody likes it. When I do that i d o. But if we're aligned on the outcome,

I actually loosen up on how we get there as long as that person is willing to own the outcome. So a lot of this has to do in owning out in my mind. All right. So is that your Yeah, I guess. Home

on the outcome. Use my my tip on this a lot of times, if you are trying to accomplish something that you failed at before, right, you you have a big plan to drive more traffic. Why? Because you're not getting enough traffic, all the last planet workout or something. That's usually there's something didn't work, and now you want it to work. You wanted to change it. If you do that before you jump into action, I would step back and ask myself, What type of thinking did we use to get to the outcome on behalf and then challenge myself to say, Are we thinking the same way now? Because if you use the same thought process to solve the same problem, if the in the past that thought process didn't give you a good solution in the future that thought process will not

something has to change

its fundamental, its fundamental. It's the way we're approaching this, probably thinking about this problem. It's not the plan we put in place to stop it. So taking the extra time to Chuck to go back and ask yourself what type of thinking approached it? We take to get a solution to this, and are we using the same type of thinking approach down? If so, maybe that's

the fundamental is, I think, the team the example you gave with team member on your team. They could get a lot of value from what you just said, right, But just think about like when they're talking to you. And then they get hit with questions they can't answer. Well, what was my thought process? How did I spend so much time and still get him with this thing and the answer? In that case, it like they just honestly, the simple answer is there more thoughtful, the right answer. Those like they didn't think about a few critical areas. They're probably court. How they think.

I know it's kind of messed up, like a lot of this has to do with changing one's thinking in order to have sort of better results and be more thoughtful. There you go. That's it from us, right?