everybody. This is Kelly ft. And this is heating shop. And today, in the sight of chair, we're gonna talk about what founders should do right after their startup has failed. You like talking about more than your sales and marketing? We just wanna bullshit Chet about business in life. And hopefully, while we're doing that, provide long value to be best for people trying to get shit done way. Don't want to give your feet. That's bullshit. You want you to do your best. So is the reason why I wanna quickly talk about this with you. I realize this is actually a really important point. I'm not sure how much haunting is out there around this.

This is not like what should you do is your next venture. But this is what did you do the day that you close up shop, right? The day that you, you know, stop service of the day off bankruptcy of the day where you officially have field with your startup. What do you do the next day? And the reason I wanted to talk to you about this is that I have two good friends that are currently going through this where startup that they've been working on for a long time. They had a lot of ups and downs. They fought very hard this year to try to turn things around. And now they're kind of in the final final week, all the running the business and then closing up shop. And this is a a journey that has taken them, I don't know, five or six years. So,

you know, they poured a lot into this business, and they're definitely Maman. Be burned out, exhausted side of the spectrum. And they've been having a lot of conversations individually. One, you know, one on one with both of them on what should come next. And, you know, I think that that it might be an interesting episode for the two of us to kind of unpack this for people, either that go through this right now or just for people to have heard this in case they have to go through this at some point in the future, you know, typically, when a father comes to you eaten that has just failed and just closed up shop and is now wondering,

what the hell do I do next? Should I go try to find a job that I start my next project Should I don't know, go meditated a retreat for a couple of weeks and find the meaning of life. I know that it is a very individual question that depends on so many different factors. But typically guide me through kind of your approach, your experience and your general philosophy. When it comes to helping Founders that if just kind of field

with the crane style, right, a postmortem. As soon as you can get that, get that shit out of your head, period. This first thing you have to do, I think you have to get it out of your head. You have to like I did this maybe a little bit late after kiss metrics, and it was just literally stream of thought bullets of like as much as I could write about it. One angle is like just bullets on what you think you did right and wrong. Another angle would be just write the story of the business so that it's just out it's done. You gotta find closure and talking about it is great, but you can talk about it for a long time with other founders and stuff like that. But writing something up for your cell in a journal or notebook or whatever some form of a postmortem where you can review the experience and let it out is really key. That's like the only thing I suggest everything else comes from that because once you do that, you'll realize all the mistakes you made.

You realize whatever feelings you had, you'll realize all kinds of things. Just do that as soon as you feel comfortable doing that, maybe you'll cry. I don't know, But go do that. That's the thing. I suggest everything. So many people don't do it. And then what they're doing is they're sitting with all of that for a very long time. They don't get past the point of the fact that it didn't work out. And the thing is like we're supposed to fail. That's what this whole idea of creating something from nothing is all about. We're supposed to fail. It's like a thing like we're supposed to fail. It's not like we design it to fail,

but we're supposed to like we're doing something so risky. Already in terms of likely to fail, right. And when you start looking at all the stats, you'll agree, obviously. But at the same time, like we failed, it didn't work out the way we thought it would or didn't work out. To be successful, you have to just let it out. Let it all out. Find your way to let it all out. I would write it the because nothing else compares to actually ready to go.

I love it so much. I am very tempted to just wrap up. The episode at this point is such powerful allies. I love it. Um,

honestly, Honestly, dude, everything else is bullshit, like there's nothing more to it, but then letting that thing go, You can't let it go if you don't have, like, a good relationship with it, like that's That's all it pulls down to its like anything in life were like you had so much energy. You put so much time and effort into it, and for whatever reason, it didn't work out. You don't want this delusion in your head about why it did work out. You don't want a wonder you don't want to have regret. You just want to figure out like what actually happened, in my opinion, and how can I just let it out? Because that's what leads to the most productive, like learnings from it.

I love that two more things they'll add on. Then we'll wrap up. The Sep is about. This is super popular vice. And obviously, you know, this applies to many different situations. Could be even a project that didn't work out a product that didn't work out

but a partner that didn't work. Hardy. That didn't work

out. Yeah, I think that adding some flavor around this one thing that I've done and advised it had gone through myself that I found incredibly useful and valuable is two. I talked to a few people that you respect about it and ask that people, hopefully that you know we're involved, But we're not kind of like maybe your co founder, some of their work in the business every single day. So people may be friends, investors, advisors, people that, you know, maybe over the months over the years you kept telling them use and updates and they were kind of, you know, following the journey from the sidelines, sit down with those people dead coffee and asked them from their information in their vantage point, what do they think went wrong?

And what is the top of advice that they gave you that they didn't think you listen to or that they were comfortable sharing with you at the time? Like what was something that you thought was going wrong? But you didn't know how to tell me something I was doing wrong. You weren't quite sure how to share with me. I've gone through that process with people, and sometimes I've gotten and lightning pieces of information in ways that really helped me add some pieces to the puzzle. But you have to be open enough to wanna hear, right to really wanna learn and listen. And if you're still in the face when you have a narrative that you want to hold on to and it's kind of a waste of everybody's time. I've seen this as well over and over again, with founders come to me and they asked for honest advice, and I can tell is I'm trying to give it to them that they don't want to hear it. They want to go through the theater of pretending. They asked for advice, but they're holding on to their thoughts and their ideas and their they're so shielded against anything that is challenging that that it's it's like, What's the point of this?

Like you came here to hear what you want to hear, Everything I'm saying that doesn't fit that you're ignoring, like why we I'm just I'm just sitting here So you had, so you can pretend that you've asked for feedback around and gone through the process. But if you're ready, Thio to truly listen and to hear painful things sometimes the things that are uncomfortable that could be incredibly useful in the last thing I'll say is again everything. There's exceptions to everything, but typically, I would advise people to not instantly make massive life decisions on that day. You know, if you'll start up, just feel maybe it's not the right day, you know, to propose to somebody get married or to, you know, to start a new business or to make a massive investment or to take any kind of huge risk.

Ideally, I think in most cases it's advisable to take whatever time is comfortable and feasible. Maybe it's a week, maybe it's a weekend. Maybe it's a month or quarter for some people. It's a year, whatever it is. But take some time off. And, you know, Philip, your batteries have some fun. Do something that has nothing to do with the past business or with future massive life decisions. Just take a little bit of a break because what you've gone through probably was very, very difficult. So just be gentle and kind and kind of re show your batteries a little bit before you step into life again and make big decisions and commit to long term big projects Or,

you know, whatever it is when people rush from a failure into something into a big life event, I'm typically nervous that that might make me not come from a place where you have the awareness, the presence, the battery tang to make really, really good decisions. Yep, yep. That's it from us. If you are listening to us and you're going through this currently, your star is just failing or has just failed. You're going through a really difficult time. We want to be here for you. If you have nobody else. If you think that we could be good people to listen to give advice, to give you feedback.

Oh, just support. You can always reach out. Stelly at close dot com hh Iijima Lacombe Being a father could be lonely A times The two of us know this too well so we can make a difference at a founder's life and make sure that they're not going through this alone. It's on a pleasure, so always reach out. If you feel like we could make a difference of help and until next time will you take care.