Hi, This is Shana, the CEO and founder of Fuel talent. One of the things I have loved most in my 25 year recruiting career has always been the stories that people tell stories of leadership, career choices, company ideas and team building. My inspiration for starting the wet fuels you podcast came from being curious about people's lives and wanting to help share their stories. What path brought them to this place? What decisions did they make that led to failures and successes, who influenced those decisions and what lessons were learned along the way? I hope you enjoy the what Jules you podcast for today's what fuels you podcast. I am thrilled to welcome my friend Terry Sillerman, Terri's an executive coach and author of the book. From the CEO's perspective, she has spent the last several years asking hard questions and challenging the thinking of most of the CEOs in the Seattle region. And for that reason, I have asked her to do the inaugural interview for what fuels you podcast.

She's gonna interview me, Terry, thanks so much for being here. I don't know what I was thinking. Putting myself in the hot seat with you since you are. Ah, One of the best interviewers I've ever heard. I love watching you on stage.

Well, thank you. Thanks for having me here. I'm super excited. And, um, if you're cool with it, let's just dig in. Okay, So So we're going to do something I call Rapid fire. Oh, go so fast. Ready? I didn't even you didn't send them to me. No, no. I would never send them to you There.

Hold rapid fire. Okay. Okay. Ready? Yes. If you didn't live in Seattle, where would you live? In New York. Name one book. You think everyone should read to kill a Mockingbird? What's one pet peeve? Passive aggressive people. If you were in a band, what would it be called? Solid gold dancing. What? Who's your role model?

Ah, Terry Castle. She's a friend of mine who lives in New York.

And we'll talk more about Terry. What's your theme song?

The Eye of the tiger.

Describe yourself as a leader in three words.

Passionate, empathetic and ah, passionate, empathetic and servant oriented.

If you could have dinner with anyone, dead or alive, who would it be?

My grandmother on my mom's

side. And what would be your first question?

What was my mom like as a little girl?

Awesome. All right, What would your band be called? Um, something mean? Probably. I mean, girls going wild. All right, So speaking of questions, I have a few questions for you today, so we're gonna We're gonna kind of just take this in a little bit of a chronicle chronological order. But, you know, I always like to throw things in when I can. So tell me and remember that my perspective is always about leadership. So, um, so we'll get to a lot of things today. What's the earliest memory you have of being a leader? I think

I mean, I joke about this, but I feel like I was born a leader. I've been like a leader type my whole life. I remember running for student council in second grade. I lost, but I one of my best friend actually reminds me that I got the school to allow auditions on the playground and third grade because I wanted to cast Annie. And so I was the I was the casting agent. And that's what we did

at recess. Yeah. Yeah, I loved. It was super fun. Awesome. Who had the biggest influence in your life at that time at that stage? I mean, growing

up, I think my family was in a family business and my grandfather was kind of the grand poobah. So I was raised to really look up to him and admire many of his qualities. Um, my parents, my mom and dad, my brother who's 15 months older than me.

So if you think about your grandfather cause you kind of focused on him, what's the biggest lesson you learned from him? He

was incredibly tenacious and fearless, And he was the type of person who, um, took very good care of himself. He died at 100 and one and 1/2 and he had was only taking an aspirin today. Um, so I learned about self care. I learned about hard work. Hey, came from nothing and built himself Thio, you know, a very successful businessman.

Wow. And so what was your first job? Did you work for him, or did you Did you have a different job? My very first job. Yeah.

I worked for the family business selling clothes for many years. I was also a, um, tennis instructor every summer, and my first job job was a full blown cold collar. Um, just like dialing for dollars job. I can't

even remember what I was selling. It's

so sad. But it was like it was not for me.

So you mentioned tennis. You're competitive tennis player, right? Yeah. So what was the biggest lesson you learn from the time that you started playing with old? Were you when you started playing

well, my mom taught herself how to play when she was pregnant with my brother, and she ended up being a nationally ranked tennis player. Um, and I just grew up on the tennis court because she was a stay at home mom and she'd take me to the tennis court when she had a match. And so I started playing myself when I was probably six or seven. But I started competing at age eight, and I really peaked early. I was, like, top of my game at, like, 12.

Wow. Yeah, so what? I mean, if you think about that journey, it's pretty unique for a lot of reasons. It's unique. So what do you think you really took away that helped shape you today. Well, I think that, um, I love

tennis, but I think that I probably would have thrived even more in a team sport. I'm really a team person. I might have been the captain of the team, but I really like a team sport. I don't hate to lose as much as other people. D'oh! I love to win. I don't hate to lose. Like you really need to to play at that level. Um, I ended up playing in college and, you know, played a lot.

Yeah, it's funny. Love to win, hit lose. I ask that question of CEOs all the time. It's I think it tells a lot about people I hate to lose.

You will. I know that

about you. But I don't love to win, but you're also how you down. I don't care about winning. I just hate to lose.

Oh, mine's loving to win. For sure.

I love to win. I think that's probably because you're more optimistic than I weigh. Discover that early on in the interest in Mr Berger, the intothe lover. Narrator But sometimes, um so give me a snapshot after after school, you into high school, then college. So what happened after that? Where did

you land and move to San Francisco right out of college and met a recruiter and got a job right out of school as a recruiter. 100. My shop. My first job. 22. Um, yeah. And I worked at night and on the weekends at Banana Republic so that I could afford to do it. And, um but I loved it from day one.

So what do you love about it? What made you get back in the

day? It was like there was no Lincoln. There was no, there was no Internet. So people hired me for my network. And I would, uh, go out at night. And I was involved with different sporting activities in San Francisco. And I built a really big network, and I could kind of parlay my personal and professional life really naturally. And I loved that it was just an ability to kind of read people really well, and I felt like I was getting paid for what I do. Anyway, I just have a connector type who loves to introduce people to other people, and so it's never really felt like work for me.

So what happened after San Francisco? About a year

into my career? Ah, company that was based out of Los Angeles got in touch with one of my colleagues. She said, Well, open up your San Francisco office. If I can kind of bring this gal with me, I'd like to introduce you to her. She and I flew down to Los Angeles to meet this Ah, couple that ran this business and they hired us to open up their San Francisco office. They had never opened up another office, but very quickly we became the top agency in San Francisco. Then we opened up, um, Silicon Valley, and then I moved to New York to open up New York and Boston. Um,

so it was. It worked out really nicely, and I think from being raised in an entrepreneurial family, I realized I was not the individual contributor that my colleague was who brought me over. I was really thought like an owner, and I didn't realize that that was kind of my idea. And I was, um, 26 when they moved me to New York and they signed a 10 year lease with, like, my name on it. My name on the bank account. I mean, the whole thing was crazy because we didn't even know if I was gonna like New York, right?

But they really I mean, they took a big risk. They gotta wait into leaving myself a Mini me. Yeah. I

need to find me back

in the data. We have other offices for me. Yeah,

it was It was a great relationship, and I learned a lot from them.

So if you think about New York, what do you regret doing or not doing when you live there? Well, the

whole time I lived there, I kept thinking, you know, I didn't realize I was gonna meet my husband there. I didn't realize I was gonna get pregnant with my 1st 2 Children there. I didn't realize I was gonna kind of live live there versus be someone in my twenties that kind of does the New York thing. I actually lived there. I had kids in private school. Um, and the whole time I kept thinking, I think I should start my own company. But I was intimidated by the idea that I didn't know how long I was gonna be in New York, and I also felt like it was a huge expense to do business in New York. Um but I think now, looking back, I should have just done it because I'm having the time of my life. And I was doing everything but having it be my own capital,

which is scary. But, um, I know how to do this. And I knew how 10 years ago. I just started fuel five years ago, so I don't know. I had a whole team that was very loyal to me. I think I could have easily started a company there.

And so eventually you did. But tell us how you got back to see how well, so 2009 hit.

I lived in New York through 9 11 so that was obviously shaped me.

How intelligence tells more about Well,

I was running that office that I had opened up for the L A based company, and I, um, had a team of about 20 people. And, ah, you know, I walked in that day and my receptionist said a plane had hit. She was on the phone with her brother, who worked at Salomon Smith Barney in, um, one of the towers, and I kind of was like, Okay, well, that's interesting. Let me know what happens.

I'm like, starting the meeting. It was Tuesday morning, um, our weekly meeting. And then she came in and said, I think it's like, really bad. And so my whole might office was on 53rd and Lex. So my team went up to the roof and saw the second plane hit all of them. And I, um, stayed in my office and called the CEO in Los Angeles and then called my parents and called my brother to just tell everyone that I was okay. And after 9 11 happened, Ah, I ended up meeting this CEO of a company called Glow Cap,

and I met him through a mutual friend who had gone over to work for him and said, This guy's great and he has incredible technology, and we've been working kind of with one arm behind our back with the technology we've been using, and he had developed an incredible technology that at the time, you know, is before Lincoln did not exist, it was really a 80 s applicant tracking system mixed in with a C. R M client relationship management system and they talk to one another and it sent e mails out to prospective candidates, and at the time, no one was doing that. So I realized that if I could match kind of my skill set my years of experience, my ability to build teams with that technology, that I could kind of blow it up. So he and I met. We decided that I was gonna move to Seattle and open up a Seattle office for him, and we were gonna kind of do a joint venture,

see how it works. And pretty soon after I joined him. This was in 2003. I got pregnant with my first child and I was like, I guess I'm not moving to Seattle now and then our business really took off like huge Um, And then I realized I don't even want to leave New York. I'm making money and having fun. I'm building this company, um, for him. I ended up opening San Francisco, Los Angeles, Greenwich, Connecticut. So I kind of just did the reverse and Seattle and we had a great run had an awesome team. I had about 50 people reporting into me across the country,

and we built it to a multi multi $1,000,000 business. And when 2009 hit, all of my clients kind of imploded. I mean, there was Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns, and we worked a lot in the alternative asset world. So private equity, hedge funds, venture Capital, and, um, we got nailed. And so David and I looked at each other and said, OK, now, at this point,

we've got two kids were about to have our first child enter kindergarten, and what are we doing? So we decided to rent out our apartment in New York and rent a house in Seattle. I'm meant to be in front of clients in front of candidates motivating a team. I'm not meant to be kind of a long distance. Ah, remote manager. That kind of puts out fires. And so, um, in 2013 after he had offered me to move back and be the CEO of the company, I turned it down back to New York. He wanted me to move back to New York and be the CEO. He realized that um, he probably shouldn't have let me move. Um,

and he realized that he didn't love that job anymore. He had all sorts of things he wanted to do. And he's done since, um, and I moved, Uh, I decided not to move back to New York, and at that point, I said, Well, I'm gonna do a build. Which Seattle really was a build. It's like, Why not now? You know, I realized that, um, he'll probably ask me about fear, but I had a lot of fear around it. No,

Well, part.

I had a Nate business sense from my family and just kind of I think I really have a marketing mind. But I did not understand how to read a piano. I did not have confidence around understanding legal documents. Now, all I care about all day long is our reputation, and I'm in the lane. I'm supposed to be in.

So before you go into the line So how did you overcome the fear?

Well, for 10 years, my dad and my brother and David and people that know me well, we're like you can do this. You do realize you can hire those people right, And I just felt like I wouldn't even know what I didn't know. And, um, being on the executive team of my last firm and the firm before, I really had a lot of exposure to all sorts of parts of the business. I just didn't have my own capital on the line, and it just felt scary. Um, you know, my husband's also an entrepreneur, and it just felt scary. And I had great income.

Um, I had always done really well, and so I think that I felt like that could be possibly enough. But the best part for me of owning my own company, the income is like completely secondary. It's like it's my, um, vision and ideas, the brand it it It reflects me, and it reflects my values, and it's really been incredibly satisfying to have that part like that. I can take care of people the way I want to take care of them, because we had very different views on that. My last two CEOs and I had very different views on people versus

money. So what advice do you have for people who are thinking about making that jump becoming the CEO starting their own business. Well, I think you know some

of the decision or lack of decision on my part was also based on the geography. I was in New York. I didn't know where I was gonna be living was also having babies. Now we have three. And so some of it was just timing. And, um, I would say for people to obviously make sure that they have a viable idea, our business, Um, but once you do not to really overthink it and you could maybe figure out a way to somehow keep some sort of passive income depends on what your drivers are, if it's like I'm fearful because I need the money and I don't know how to take this kind of step back while I have to build. That's one part that kind of drives people and keeps them from taking the plunge. And sometimes I think people just need to be around other strong people who believe that. Believe in them. Yeah, and that just say you can do this. If not you, then who and why not you, right? There's no reason why you shouldn't have a seat at

the table. Yeah, I think that why not you is a really important question. Yeah, I think people need that for sure.

It's incredibly rewarding to be a recruiter and not just It's not just transactional. It's like you're really actually shaping people's trajectory of their lives. And so I guess, you know, I keep thinking I'll have a two point our A 3.0 version having done this for 25 years and I can't just be recruiting, but it really satisfies me. And that fills my bucket, Um, kind of helping people and understanding people. And I also love the business side of me loves all the different cos I get

to meet with Yeah, what was the inspiration behind naming fuel fuel? Oh, geez, Well, so

Mindy Blakeslee and Shama Conlin worked with me at my last company. We just sat with a whiteboard and a computer, and every name was taken. But I love the name. And then our tagline of what fuels? You came really organically and it's on everything. Hashtag what fuels you and I love learning from people. What fuels them. It's different for everyone, and it's different depending on where people are in their life and it's it totally came together. The brand. We

love it. Awesome. I love it. It looks beautiful. Thanks. So what, Give us kind of the snapshot of what do you guys really specializing? So we kind of have

it. Like fuel talent is almost like a holding company of lots of little recruiting firms within fuel talent. So there's practice heads who run different practices, and the different practices include, um, software development engineers. So all levels up to C T o. Everything in between, um and marketing product accounting finance HR and admin on. And then we also placed personal assistants and household managers, which just kind of organically came from our admin practice.

So what? What is the one or two things that you think CEOs really need to keep in mind when they're hiring for an executive assistant? I

think that I've been trying to crack this code for a very long time, and Shauna Conlan and I have talked about trying to come up with some sort of product. I think that a lot of times I realized that the CEO doesn't know themselves well enough, and if in assistance not strong enough to ask the right questions. They're not necessarily coach. They're not necessary. Assistance are Oftentimes they love, um, nurturing. And they love anticipating needs. And they love being organized and follow through in all those skills. But I think that the biggest thing is fit and chemistry and realizing we're gonna spend eight hours a day and I'm gonna have to get to know you really well. But in order for me to fast forward that, because the problem is that they're they're gonna lose trust pretty quickly and that assistant doesn't nail it. But the assistant may have done something completely differently for their old. They're old exact cause that exactly have wanted things done differently. And so I think that the on boarding of the assistant and exact has to be taken very, very seriously. And we've talked about putting together a checklist.

Yeah, that is probably the I'd say that's almost one of them. I think it's the one of the hardest hires. Yes, CEO tomatoes.

But Shauna Conlin, who runs that practice, is incredible. She's placed for you. Name it in Seattle. She's really good.

So what's your secret sauce when it comes to the success that you've had in the recruiting world the success of the companies have in the recruiting world. I I honestly, I believe a

lot of it is, Um I mean, a little bit of that, like 80% of life is showing up like I just kind of show up and follow through and execute on things. I'm not a person who's, like, has meetings about meetings or lists about lists. It's a lot of just kind of doing. And I also love Thio, um, kind of take care of others. And so there's been a lot of doing good type of behavior that doesn't link at all to my business that I think people remember. But I'm pretty good at picking up on both the environment and also the people and the kind of the nuanced part of it. And there's plenty of recruiters that air really good, who are literally prescriptive, and it's just a numbers game, right,

you know, But that's not really my approach as much. I'm much more like, Hey, I don't know if this person's right, but can you do me a favor and just like, 20 minutes with um um and I have total satisfaction when that actually hits because it's like I knew it.

It's a match. It's a match. Yeah. So what kind of clients are the best ones for you to work with? What were the ideal clients?

We like to line up with companies who are, you know, engaged in CS as partners and not as a vendor who's just they're not expecting. They're not measuring us by volume because they've got to hit some metrics of a certain amount of resumes that they've screened because hopefully we're doing that. Um, hopefully they're in line with comp, um, and have a compelling story that's easy for us to sell and close. If they don't, then hopefully they've got something else, um, that they can offer to our candidates. Um, we like to really have access to the hiring managers as much as possible, and that takes time to build a relationship so that it's, um there's a trust there, and we can really read and anticipate what they're going to need.

Those air, the best clients. I mean, most of our clients are kind of Siri's be funded startups. Siri's a Series B started, um, start ups, and they may have an internal recruiter. They may not have an internal recruiter. Um, but they allow us to do what we do best, which is to really spend a lot of time on the front end getting to know them so that we can head hunt for them versus post jobs and hope that, like, we don't do the like, post and pray

approach. Well, it sounds like your approach is different from transactional. What? How do you describe the approach that you guys take? Well, I think

that, um, you know, at the end of the day, there's been a lot of automation that's happened, and it's afforded us a lot of efficiencies, but I don't think that when you are in the kind of service is business and in this specifically people side of the service's business that anything can replace relationships. Yeah, and so our special sauce, you know, and I've had to really work hard with the team to teach them. This is just to build relationships, that it might not be a today person that you're gonna play sora today company that you're gonna work with, but down the road company, Um and so we've likes to get involved with companies that might be in, um, you know, literally like seed round. And we get to know

them at that point really early. Yeah.

I mean, I like to know who's doing what and get to know them, and I'm happy to offer any sort of consultation. Um, we've also just partnered with a friend of mine who I also would like to have on the podcast who's built internal recruiting teams. And, um, I think a huge thing that we can give back to them is having them meet with us. Meet with her to really understand what they need to put in to build a robust recruiting arm. Because I think oftentimes, startups, big mistake. I see is there just hiring somebody who maybe was a recruiting coordinator or they may have been a sorcerer at like an Amazon, and, um, they want them to kind of run talent acquisition. And there's so many arms,

too, that I mean, there's the recruiting branding. There's the process. There's wth ee comp. There's the metrics that you need to be looking at. There's all the systems, and, um, a lot of companies just don't get that right and kind of the saying is like time kills all deals, and it's really tough to partner with those companies that have not figured out the cadence and the pace of this

market. So that's a great So that's one of the mistakes you see them make d. C. What other mistakes D C start ups make when it comes to recruiting or talent acquisition? Um, I

think that, you know, oftentimes I'm meeting with the CEO at the onset, and they say that their highest and best use of their time is to focus kind of maniacally on talent and that that's the thing that they lose The most sleepover is how am I going to get the best team? And then they kind of go dark because they have another job to d'oh. And so they haven't slowed down enough to say, Um, I mean everything from why do we need this job description? Who is it reporting into who's in the interview loop? What's the feedback loop gonna look like? What is our expectation of our team? As far as, um, you know, feedback timeline. And so if it's like, hey,

I'm gonna submit a resume and then you're gonna look at it two weeks later and they're gonna interview the person a week later, and then we're gonna get feedback. A week later. That person's really got four offers, and so we coach on that. But there's only so much that we can D'oh! And so one of the things I think that they don't do is dedicate someone to just funnelling the resumes or two. At least starting within an applicant tracking system are a lot of our clients Love Lever? It's, ah, tracking tool. And so it's It could just be kind of a free for all if you don't get a

game plan. Yeah, well, and that's one of the biggest challenges whose CEO is doing on Lee. What the CEO can d'oh! And hiring for the rest. Yeah, I mean, that's something that we I spent so much time coaching on. I'm sure I'm sure. And I think that they have all at every level, they have great intentions.

Um, but they either

are too involved

in it, and then they're they're a bottleneck. Um, and then the time kills the deal. Or they are, um, thinking that they're involved but they're not. They're just kind of throw people into the mix, and they don't prep them. Look at the resume. First, figure out. What are you exactly pressing on versus what I'm pressing on? We're repeating and, by the way, sometimes put someone in who's not even happy at the company. And then

because the stakes go sour. But

they're they're just kind of in, like execution of recruiting mode versus strategy of recruiting mode. Yeah, if

that makes sense, it makes sense because it happens not just in recruiting, but in all aspects because, you know, see you oftentimes he is. They're really good at a lot of things, but they're the CEO, and that's what they have to be the best.

It's great when we can partner, and we don't. We also don't love to partner with companies who, um, this is actually a nugget that I think is important, that I tell a lot of my CEO friends and clients that if they put somebody into a talent acquisition position and then they internally at their company and then they say, Hey, you know, partner also with fuel talent or another agency, and then they measure the internal recruiter bi metrics that put us in competition. So not just how did not just did you fill the role, But how did

you feel the role?

It shouldn't matter how they filled the role. If there's a budget for it, it should matter that they get people hired that are right for the role and that they're not, um, wasting time of, you know, getting interview loops for three hours with their engineering team that takes away from them

producing a product, getting yeah, So that's what I think. That's really good advice. Yeah, that's great. So, um, who's the next client that doesn't know that they need you? Well, we've We've shifted a little

bit not away from startups, But we've added to our business, and we're now starting to partner with larger enterprise clients. Um, they use us for long term contract rolls, and, um so we're doing a big push on that. So I would say that the people who don't know that they need us would be the hiring managers within the larger enterprise clients, because those are harder to get thio. Usually the cream rises to the top in any service is industry by seeing that we are thorough, we have great candidate control. Um, we've got great write ups on our candidates. We don't lose deals at the 11th hour. Hopefully, um, and so it's really the hiring managers, the companies themselves. I think that we're doing a pretty good job of getting your name out there and getting a great source from our referrals. A lot of companies air referred to

us also. Well, this is gonna help, too. So tell, tell us more about the inspiration for this podcast. I started

listening to podcasts in the last I would say maybe a year, year and 1/2 and I'm become kind of obsessed. I feel like I just wanna not do anything but listen to

podcasts. It's actually making their work.

It's actually making me like when you're driving. You kind of don't want to get to your garage

or when you're working out, you're like, Oh, I think I could go another 20 minutes. It's been great.

Um, and it's endless because I have a huge interest in many different

categories of your favorite something. Um, how I built this, So, yeah, I cannot be listening to that one. All right. So my favorite I have to plug my favorite. Which is what are yours? Well, it's the Alec Baldwin. Oh, you told me about that. Here's the thing I love that I would. I like about that is his speed. He's so fast. And he asked her questions.

I love it, and our personalities need that. That's my very favorite one. Hooded. We're talking fast enough. So what can listeners expect to hear on this podcast going forward? Well, I would definitely want

people to email in to say what they want to hear about, but I feel like I just get asked every question under the sun as a recruiter, whether it's cos asking,

How do I compete is a little mysterious? Well, they just kind of want

to know that there's some sort of magic formula which there isn't. It's a very competitive market right now, and so I've spoken on different panels about things like, How do I? We called it David versus Goliath last year at Startup Week, and it was like, How do I compete against the Facebooks and Twitters and Amazon E big money and, um, lots of startup clients of mine have different philosophies on it. It's like, Do we make the offer and then let them kind of go to Amazon with an offer in hand? Do we wait if we hear they're talking to Amazon and just say, Hey, take that process through and if you don't get the job, come back to us like what's thestreet egy on that? Um, my attitude is that if somebody wants Amazon,

they probably don't want to start up. And it's really hard to vet for kind of start up stomach or startup mentality. I think that it's, um, crucial to be thinking about things like I mean, people want to know about how to network, um How thio Ah, interview. And so I'm gonna have how to assess equity offerings. Um, how'd when do I know that I'm able to walk away? And what do we need to be pushing for negotiating on? And so I've had for our team. We've brought in venture capitalists. We've brought in attorneys. I've brought in,

you know, Carnegie Mellon. Ah, engineers who train asked to think about what an engineer might be thinking about. Also, I'm trying to make our team smarter and better. And I'm hoping through this podcast that I can share stuff that I'm sharing with our team. And then also, I personally am a person who just gets really curious about humans, and I like to go deep. And so I'm gonna try to make people talk about stuff that might make them uncomfortable.

That's the only way to do it. Yeah, being out of your comfort zone, it's a little more leeway to be because

I love learning about that kind of stuff about people.

That's awesome. So what's one piece of advice? I'm switching gears here. What's one piece of advice you're served early in your career that you didn't believe until now? Uh,

I think that convincing myself that in order to be a CEO, our founder, that you needed to understand every aspect of the business inside and out. And I have since learned doing a lot of women things. It's very female review. I've heard that women have a very hard time delegating, Um, I am not as good as I could be at negotiating. You know, I'm not.

I'll be better than good, but

I think a lot of women you

know, clients will bake. How about anymore? Okay.

You know, cause it's that, like, desire to please and make everybody happy. Um, you know, I'm 46. Almost 47. If I'm 50 and still being such a pleaser like that

will be a problem. Honey, you come to me. Well, I know, but I think the pleaser right

out. I am terrible at that. I'm literally terrible that I make. I want to make sure everybody's happy all the time.

No time for that. Um, okay, So you talked about Terry as one of your mentors. Tell me more about Terry.

Terry is amazing. Terry was the global head of HR at Merrill Lynch and through, I mean through the nineties, and she came to the firm as that before this, um after Merrill Lynch. And I mean, she was on the executive team and she was looking for her kind of fun. Like later in life job. She was, um, at the time, well into her fifties and was just looking for kind of a fun job. She's She's really good about not apologizing for who you are, and she's very much like, but you're kind of a great conductor. you're really good at getting the band kind of all the orchestra all going together. And,

um, you know the analogy I use now for, like, even parenting or or, you know, leading the team at work. And this is mine. I'm happy because I came up with this, but I'm like, you know, if your bowling I'm happy to be the kind of guard rails, but I don't need to throw the bull, throw the ball. I don't need thio, like, make sure hit every pin. I just need to be the person that can kind

of see her, like, let's circle back

in and stay in the lane. And then I need to be in my own lane where I thrive. Um, and she's She was really good because she believed in me. She told me early on that she thought I should start my own company and she actually wrote me a check on and she said, I know you don't need funding, but I think that maybe if I just put this in your bank, you'll have more confidence to just go do this cause enough's enough. Um, so I didn't touch it. I just like kept it in the bank. But technically, she invested in me. Yeah. Um

wow, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's you know, I think that's a great message. For what? What can we do? Is women to support other women? Totally. That totally. I mean, it doesn't take much Cherries. Incredible. So what's most surprised you about having kids? Well, for me, you know, I think that it's

common, um,

to be asked like, how do you do it all?

Because the three kids and they're running a business. And then we're also really social on him on a couple boards, like, there's different things that I like to dio. And I think that it takes a village. You know, we have a no pair lives of us. Um, my husband's really helpful, and we've been lucky. But the biggest thing that surprised me about having kids is that obviously you cannot shaped. Um, we have three, and they're all three extremely different. But I do think that, um, I didn't realize how satisfied I would feel by seeing them be self reliant.

And I think that that's a gift that I've given them. I'm gonna take credit for it. and I joke that it's because I'm lazy. It's not the laziness. It's just like added necessity. I think they have to kind of figure it out because I'm not going to spoon feed them. I'm not gonna be the mom that's coddling them, um, every step of the way. And so I encourage them and I love them, but they're very capable for their age. And, um, I think that I've learned that that's possible. And I think that it's something I get kind of excited to talk to other moms

about God. There's a lot of moms that need to be your very challenging, not just Well,

it's just challenging when I see people, um, kind of smothering their kids And, um, you know, But I also think that the biggest lesson has definitely been that you cannot shape them, um, to our kind of more similar to me. And one is more similar to my husband.

So speaking of your husband, he is also a successful entrepreneur data genius. Um, So what do you most admire about him about David? Yeah. Um Well, I guess is

just kind of like Joie de V like he's, um he kind of sees the world. He's got kind of a kid like way of seeing the world. He's very much like, alive and awake. And, um, he's the type of person who does do a deep dive on things. So he's becomes kind of a knowledge expert on things that he gets into. But he also knows everything about everything. He's incredibly smart. My family cousin Bob are,

um, Elephant. Yes, just

like he does not forget a thing. He's like, he's sharp and so definitely his mind, but also hiss, um, his attitude. I mean, I tend to be kind of more Taipei and intense, and he's very much literally, like, Stop and smell the roses, And, um, it's a good way to

live. It is a good one. This is the hardest question I'm gonna ask you, uh, if you weren't the CEO fuel talent, what would you be doing? Oh,

I'm like a solid gold dancer. It's back to

solid gold. Got it? Wasn't hard at all. Are you kidding? I think Is that why you're wearing so much french today? And I ring for tea. Oh, you're wearing the fringe. Yeah, I guess I mean something. with, um, it

depends. I mean, I'm not talented enough to do something for real. That is in that space. But I'm I'm, like, so happy when I'm dancing. Um, I would probably maybe be doing something in sports or entertainment or something. Definitely something front of the house. Not back of the house, you know, back. And I'm an extrovert.

Yeah. I'll take the back of the house. Yeah. Back of house. A talk show, a talk show. You know, you. I was thinking you'd be really good on a game show podcast. A game show? No, David would. David could be good on jeopardy because you got a family feud in future episodes,

I'll be doing the interviewing and featuring CEOs, heads of talent, acquisition, executive coaches and other experts in Seattle. Thank you for listening to the wet fuels. You podcast. Be sure to subscribe. Rate and review on iTunes. Google podcasts are Spotify and follow us on social media To keep up with the latest news and episodes.

You can also

contact us at podcast at fuel talent dot com to provide feedback, ask questions and share topics or guests you would like us to cover in the future. We hope you feel inspired by our guests and that we have helped fuel your day. Join us next time for another episode of what fuels you.