So today on the show career, Dubovsky, which I totally butchered another politician. Advance. Sorry, but you are the host of the Rad Dad podcast and a very kindred spirit because he's trying to do the exact same thing that we're trying to do with to set about podcast. Which is how do you help fathers beam or intentional in their role, especially fathers, that our founders air trying to do ambitious things. So he's interviewed quite a few very well known founders in the tech space that are also Dad's. He has a startup called Smash Notes. He's Ah, Y C Y Combinator alum, I believe Hopefully I'm not messing too much of your bio up, But thanks so much for being on the show, man. I appreciate it. I'm excited to talk to you about fatherhood and a lot of the things that you've learned doing your podcasts through the years.
Thanks. Good to be on a show. And thank you for a wonderful introduction. Really? I'm just unemployed. Stayed home, Dad, you know, he and my kids all the time and doing podcasts here and there. But that sounded much better. You
don't give yourself enough credit I must say so. I've enjoyed listening to some of your podcast episodes, and, um and we actually were speaking for quite a bit before, and you were telling me a little bit about, um, you know, some of the wisdom you've taken away from some of pocket. So tell me a little about the rad dad show. Um, maybe tell everyone the story on the name and then kind of where, where it's been.
Also, you like the story. Great. I like I like the story
of the name. So you got a retail that
So for a while,
my wife and I would be so good balancing the kids around.
So one of us will stay home with the kids.
The other one will go do some work.
And I really needed a creative outlets.
there's a lot of these resources on parenting.
no of them trying to teach you something,
and I just didn't really want to teach people or have somebody tell me exactly what to do.
I just wanted to like Lauren from people and their challenges of mistakes and how they're doing it.
but I also fully realized that kids are all different.
families all different and how we raise our kids is very specific to our exact situation.
So I started at a dead show. It's read that chill dot com, but basically interviewing my friends about their challenges as parents and also meeting new people who I thought were fascinating in the tech world, and I wanted to know how they able to do their tech thinks and raise a family as well. But the name came because I was sitting with one of the co founders of Boosted Boards for Lunch, and for a while I had a boost. The board that I was riding through my neighborhood when we got when we got the first moved into suburbs out of the city and so right, my booster board through the suburbs and the kids would go, Whoa, that is so cool. So I'm telling him the story. He goes, you know, for our marketing campaigns, we have different buckets, and one of them is a RAB dad bucket.
So basically, we identify you as a rad dad who bought a boost, the board and you know ah, target you. Ah, based on that and I was like, Wow, that that That's me, You know, I can't agree with that. I really like that. That was about the time where I started the podcast, so I decided to call a ride. That, of course, that's also,
of course, putting the name Dad and the podcast is a little limiting. So it's It's harder for me to now Thio to get Mom's on the podcast. But I decided, you know what? It's parenting and attack and what have you doesn't have to be just Dad's because I sort of like moms do a lot of people lifting. That was that. But at the same
time, at the same token, I'll push back on that a little bit because I felt like No, no snitching down to talk about just fatherhood. Specifically is how can you? You can talk around that issue, not just parenting as a whole, and I don't know that I've executed that well on my podcast, necessarily because we talk about kind of generalizations in terms of parenting. But you said, basically it's more parenting as a whole, not just dads or fatherhood.
Yeah, of course. I mean, if you invite somebody on the right, Dad. Podcast. They feel really good about it. And, like, I haven't had anybody say no. Uh, yeah. So
So tell me more about, you know, kind of how how you see the show now and tell me some of the stuff that you've learned from some of the dads that you've had on. I know you've had quite a few, you know, well known people and from all different walks of life. And, you know, tell me about your last couple years doing the show and some takeaways as a as a father that you've taken.
I think one of the major takeaways from the show was that everyone is different than you should take.
Everybody's advice for the grain of salt.
you should listen to what people are doing in their day to day life and learn from that and see how that applies to you.
But don't necessarily focus on the big picture.
Because many of us don't actually know what's gonna happen to our kids.
10 20 years down the road.
And even if you interview somebody whose kids already in college,
you know what they did 10 or 20 years ago is not necessarily gonna be applicable to your life today.
But like I told you before,
Like when I had the chase on this show.
David Hunter Meyer,
the founder of Ruby on Rails. The guy's a millionaire. The guy doesn't have to go to work anymore, but he still does because he enjoys it and he spends time with his family. And I'm assuming his, you know, kids are doing really fun stuff. There are a lot of stuff there, for example, which I think applies day today. Like David said, Look, you know, don't worry about your kids not eating sugar because we all grew up eating a ton of sugar, and we turned out okay. And you like you,
I get it right like that. Sometimes we tend to overreact. This parents we read something about, like, sugar is bad for your Children, and all of a sudden we start like feeding them just carrots and broccoli all the time. Um, but in the end of the day, we ate sugar returned out, Okay? Right. Or like you. I think the reason I'm doing a podcast and you know your podcast. My broadcast and similar think white people should listen to them is because you'll hear things that may be similar to How are you doing them with a different point of view? What not but you can. You can figure out which parts you like and don't like,
and doom or of the ones you like, because there's no point of trying. Thio fight to your and do something that totally doesn't apply to you, but you can find interesting bids which make you think differently about what you're doing. But maybe you would agree with
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Um yeah, D H h he's And he's a very opinionated guy, that's for sure. You know? And he's you wonder about, you know, is what is What's the reality behind that, but also the go ahead. You're something?
you know the changes in opinionated guy,
and he truly is.
And but we were talking about this,
how do you want to raise your kids?
Do you want them to be a pushover?
Do you want them to be opinionated?
Do you want to express themselves?
And of course you do is but like you know,
is a type A founder.
Of course you want your Children.
Just stand up for themselves and basically tell the world what they think.
And that means when you're raising them and you say,
kid, go do the X and they stand there and say, No, I'm not gonna do that, All right? That that happens to pretty much every parent all the time. But what do you do? Because the part of you that's apparent, you, like, get in the car? Because we gotta go somewhere, right? You want them to get in the car, But the the other side of you should think, stop and think,
Whoa, no, really. You want them to articulate for themselves? You want him to defend themselves, and that becomes an interesting, like game. Where do you give in and where do you let them? Ah, you know, pursue their past. Um uh, but But I think things like that are very important and they're very difficult, you know, get that came out of that pocket. But it's really difficult most of the time.
You just want If you're a type A, you just want things done like now huh? But part of raising kids is actually slowing down. Putting yourself putting yourself in their shoes? Um, yeah,
that that's Ah,
that's a really good point because I remember him saying that when I sold them to and he said something about Yeah,
you wanna you wanna encourage that?
Because you want them to be a pushover.
And but the thing that I thought about was with my son,
who's he's now eight.
But when he was even like,
two years old,
he his personality is like he just wants to know what the plan is like in a things go outside of kind of the plan than that kind of rocks his boat a little bit.
It's very much like my wife,
so I'm much more sporadic like,
let's do this,
we're going to just,
like, come with a fun idea. It's like, Oh, there's a squirrel. Let's go chase a squirrel. You know, I'm just kind of shiny object syndrome to the max. Where's my wife? Is much more plan and detailed, and so is my son. And what I noticed was that he would have a much worse day if we didn't tell him like the day before what was gonna happen or why we were doing things. And as a young parent, so is the first child that we had that I had, obviously is. I thought that was kind of dumb.
It's like, Well, why Why do I need to sit here until my two year old, like, so young, you know what we're doing? But you saw the drastic change of behavior from that. And so it really to me, spoke to How do you tune into their personality and then help them be the best, you know, maximize their strengths. And so even that kind of float into we home school or four kids and it's interesting to see house, you know, some excel at different things. So my my son is is much more advanced at math from an early age than my daughter. But my daughter,
our second, are one of two daughters and one of two sons. But, um is picked up reading quicker than my son, and it's like we were able to kind of self pace that and say, That's fine, you know? We want he can go faster with math and then catch up with reading. But if we were to force him like like Kennedy HHS saying, or you were saying It's like, Get in the car. It's like that creates, um conflict. And actually then can create a barrier between you know, you and your kids. And so that's it.
That's a really delicate balance. You also don't want to be like Okay, Yeah, whatever you say. You know, I'm gonna be the pushover, and I'll let you be assertive. You know, it's like you still to be the parent. I mean, come on now, you know, But it is interesting to which I think to me as as as a young dad, and then hearing some of the interviews has been like, How can you tune into that at an early age? And really then,
um, cater kind of how you're treating that based on some of their personality traits and being cognizant of that. And I think if you're so busy, you know, rushing around trying to do everything you can tune into that, um, as easily or B b is intentional as you as you should.
I think 100%.
And you and I were talking about the fact that it's actually really hard to find Dad's to interview for,
parenting podcasts because most of the deads are busy at work and oftentimes they're not,
they're the best parents,
and I'm very fortunate that I've been able to spend so much time with my kids because if I didn't I wouldn't be able to read them or understand them.
I probably wouldn't notice 80% of the things right.
I'll be able to understand that because I wouldn't know who they are,
who they are now,
from what I hear it,
he's from parents.
It's not gonna change all that much.
You're think you're gonna do all these things and you're gonna mold your kids into something.
But in their personality is going to stay 90% the way they are now. So if you understand them now, you got to be able to help them and communicate them and work with them through the entire life. And I think that's so invaluable. But unfortunately right, like our society structure and wait where we were forced parents to work basically as soon as the able to for as long as the able Thio. All right? And then we wonder, why do we have so many problems Societies like? Well, because we don't really spend quality personal time together and especially now with so many devices and just like heads down devices all the time, I don't know. How many times have you seen on the playground? You know, you go play with your kids and there's parents. They're just sitting on their phones with kids playing on the playground you like.
Well, why were you even there? If you're together, your time needs to be together because that's gonna be so invaluable. And maybe that's part of why I also have this podcast to kind of like to remind people that look, it's really valuable to be together and do these things. And, uh, if you have to have somebody tell you that Well, here is me and my guest talking about this.
it's almost like,
you must need that kick in the pants.
In that perspective reminder to say,
this is this is this is a a a challenging nugget of wisdom or something.
like they're listening to it.
And they're saying that even as an interviewer,
I'm taking that bit of wisdom and I'm either saying yes,
I need to keep doing that thing.
I need to stop doing that thing when you start doing it.
You know, um and maybe you don't think all their advice, but I think that's really important and that the big thing I've been challenged with two lately has been just intentional, intentional time versus just time, Your You know that you'd say quality time. Which time? Yes, you knew spending kids. But you can spend time, you know, like taking him to a playground like you said, and be heads down in your phone. Um, and that's not really quality time. But how do you be extremely intentional with that time? And how do you and,
you know, really take that time to understand them and invest in them? And it's just it's hard, you know? It's hard because you're always connected. You're always wanted to do things, or my personality is like I want to start a bunch of projects, right? So then you're constantly thinking about those projects, and you're like, yeah, when I do that or your mind's always spinning and it's like, so nice. It's hard. Just tow, tow,
unplug and take like a tech free day and just say, No, I'm just gonna mess in you like So I was talking to Dan Martel. I haven't published episode yet, but it should be live pretty soon. But he was talking about this concept of like the family board meetings. There's a guy that wrote a book called The Family Board Meeting, and he talked about taking kids your kids on a trip or on a just 1/2 day, four hours with just them, you know, and it's like tech free, but it's what they want to do and just creating that habit every quarter. So I think he calls it a board meeting because it happens every quarter. Um, and it's interesting because you say, Well,
yeah, maybe we do these activities is a family or whatever, but to be so intentional like that and say you know where it's gonna it's a block of time. It's 1/2 day, Um, you know, we're not do anything else and were to do something that you want to d'oh like That's pretty rare, I think, Um, for a lot of parents to do that, um it's not something that I was challenged by and saying, OK, how can I incorporate that and actually do that and make the time that we're spending together currently, like more intentional? You know,
I think the key to that is recognizing that your kids are really just adults as you and I.
But the way I called with adults with constraints now they they don't understand a lot of things things about in the world.
They can't do a lot of things in the world.
But this time they want many things that you and I want.
And if somebody just took control from you tomorrow,
you would be very frustrated.
You we give our for kids a lot of freedom,
and even then I oftentimes if I think of what I said I did.
It is still very controlling because you're trying to be the parent trying to dictate what's gonna happen.
but imagine yourself being your kid and,
you go outside and somebody says,
Put on your shoes.
You like little things.
I think we tend to tell our kids would not feel so oppressive if every couple of minutes somebody told you what you need to do you where you need to go,
how you just said, How you to buckle, you know, just think of like every day, things that happened with your kids because you're in this adult, you go outside, you put on your shoes, you get in the car. Nobody is constantly yapping into your year, so it's actually what you said is it's really hard because it's really hard. Two. Admit that. I think you need to be a lot more relaxed, and it also patients on you as an adult because the first couple of times you're gonna when you're teaching your kids, it's gonna be painful, like you know,
it's that simple example of getting into the car. You can ask them to go into the car because you're going to school and they might take 15 minutes to get there. As an adult, the challenging partisan is adult. You have to have planned that extra 15 minutes into your day. Very often, we're all on a rush. We want him to be there in two minutes. We want to get to school. But look, it's not how their fault it's yours. You were in prepared right, but actually it tastes back dividends over time. And if you empower them, if you teach them to do this things sooner or later, they just started doing everything without you having to think or tell thumb.
And it becomes so empowering because always, son, they're just like doing everything. You wanted them to do it. You never have to say anything right, But there's a There is a big kind of learning curve for Ewing, for them and also, you know, we all recognize the value of compound interest in finance or in education. So why don't we recognize the same compound interest in our Children and in being apparent for our Children?
Now that's huge.
I think that's it.
It's the patient's thing.
you hit it yet the nail on the head because it's taking the time to explain why it's taking the time to not just bark out orders,
but to actually speak to them in a calm manner.
and it really comes down to,
time and yeah,
taking the having the patients to do that like,
and it is is definitely compound interest because then they don't have if you just seize control from them,
like the lack of control the kids experience or more,
so to speak.
Parenting manifests itself in a lot of different ways, I believe you know, and you see that with some kids that have really controlling parents there than trying to control themselves, right? Like they, they then have a complex where they have to control, like either other kids or whatever. And then that manifests itself in a in a very I believe negative ways. Um, but it comes out. I mean, if I have to look like look at my behavior and and how I have failed at that, it's like it all his patients. And it's all going that extra step to explain the Why, too, actually speak with them like you said more like adults.
Um, and recognizing that's actually really our role as parents is because I also don't think I don't agree with the whole other platitude of like, Well, just, you know, kind of their other adults and just give them freedom and and not do anything because that's kind of a cop out, too, because it's still your role is apparent to to teach them and to guide them. But do it in a more adult ish fashion. You know, give them, give them the credit, you know, And I'm not saying that's what you're advocating for, but you kind of talk to you like, Oh,
they can make their own decisions and all this It's like, Well, I think that's actually doing him a disservice to And I think there's a lot of people that have done some study on that that would advocate, you know, would say That's not a good thing. You know,
one of the things I really like program the founder of Why Combinator has this essay on I don't know,
We can link to the show notes or something,
but it's basically swear words and how we teach Children about swear words.
A lot of adults would choose to hype the swear words,
you're not gonna swear in front of your Children like No,
don't say the f word that doesn't exist.
that's so bad.
I showed up to my kid's school once in the T shirt that says zero F Given and ah got in trouble for that with basically the principal,
like all some kids here can read,
I'm like, Well, I'm really glad you kids can read like and I apologize any, like we're my pajamas, right? But the point is, it's like this exists everywhere in the world. Yes, they're like four years old, But if we teach them now like Look, it's like, you know it's so easy. It's a swear word. Yes, adults use it. Yes,
people use it. It's not a good thing. Here's why. It's not a good thing. It happens. Carry on. It's not. They're going to go say f you to everyone on the street all day long, right? Cause that's there's no value to them but pretending and lying to them that this thing doesn't think this is just ridiculous. And, ah, but that's that's the difference between basically recognizing them there people and treating them as babies that need to be somehow protected and sheltered. Like probably don't put a gun on the table, you know, for dinner that's probably a good idea. But like a lot of other things. You can just chill. Chill?
I think Yeah,
the sheltering is is a huge negative.
I think that to me,
that brings up another point of,
um you're treating it like adults.
You know what goes along with that As more responsibility,
making your kids do chores,
having them your spots.
But you can't.
You can't be.
You have to kind of take that full out, full circle. But, you know, you got it. You gotta do. You can't just pick and choose like the sense of responsibility. And I think that is hard to because you have Thio. It's like, OK, they're not gonna be really that good at cleaning their room when they're really young. But you don't just not do it and then just have them do it. You know, you don't just have not have them do, and you just do it all the time. It's like you have to walk them through and say This is where this goes and they do a good job.
That's fine. And then you say, How can we improve on this? But that takes work. That's hard. It's easier to just go in there and, like, pick up the room. It's easier just to say Go, go pick up your room right now like that. This is This is not good enough, you know? And I've done that. You know, I'm not perfect. And so having you know,
you and your spouse keep each other and check on that, too. Is another thing that you have to D'oh! You know, it's a Hey, we're line here. This is we're trying to do and and having kind of check ins with with your spouse. But yeah, it's all it's like. It's often the easy way out that is like the worst. You know that. It's like, Yeah, it's easy. It's convenient. Now.
It kind of goes back to your compounding interest like yeah, maybe like making a quick buck now is one way to go about it. But if you go the compounding interest way and it's like you're doing something that's gonna add value, you know, decades in the future, that might be a little harder now, you know, Um, but it's definitely worth it. I mean, I guess we'll find out in a few decades, right? Maybe we were all wrong. We're gonna mess up our kids way.
We probably will in some ways,
because I think it's it's also really entertaining because a lot of us are trying to parent by correcting the mistakes our parents dead.
that's another interesting topic.
improving on those.
And you don't really know,
but but the other side of it,
like we talked about your home schooling,
your kids and maybe a lot of parents trying to kind of prepare that gets for Stanford.
But we don't even know if Stanford is going to be any useful in 20 years,
But a taste for me personally.
A lot of things I'm doing now,
I'm very curious now,
and I'm trying to absorb a lot of knowledge is because when I was younger, I was in regular public school. But I was bored a lot because the education wasn't very exciting or wasn't appealing to be in some ways for you know, the way I am teaching my kids now it's a lot more. I tried to come down to their level, and my wife just started doing these mass circles with our four year old right and same ideas, just like you can't just give him a math problem. They're not interested. You give him a problem that that's in their world and make it about math tangentially, and then they're super absorbed. A lot of these things when we when we try to parent by doing the opposite of what our parents did, might also not be very scaleable. Um, but that's
that you say that because I kind of feel it ceiling same way,
Like when you,
when you realize you're doing something that your parents did or your parenting in the same style of governance,
did you kind of You're like,
are we just doomed to repeat like what our parents it is?
There's no escaping the cycle,
But it's interesting to have conversation with your spouse when there's differences in,
how you parent or how you look at parenting and then to discuss those and talk about the white again.
That takes work and I'll say it's it's easy to not do that and just kind of go,
kind of get into the rot or the you know just the routine of how you do things.
But then to say,
take a step back and say, Yeah, you know, this is what I have been thinking about this, or this is what we should do for, like, a discipline or a teaching thing or whatever. You know, this this happened and I didn't really agree with that. You know how you handled that or how I handled that? And this is what I'm thinking. Like, I feel like my wife and has some conversations like that. But maybe not enough conversations like that to really talk about how we're intentionally parenting. Um, but sometimes you may sounds bad,
but sometimes you just see how other parents are not doing it right or or what they're doing. And you kind of have a discussion, you know, me and my wife and be like, Oh, that's how they're doing that I don't know that I agree with that. And this is how that manifests itself in their kid. It's like maybe we should try this other thing, you know what I mean? Like, you're kind of iterating as Ugo,
and I think you're saying a very important thing that This is a team sport and you have to communicate with us,
And by communicate I mean very often you're not going to be the one right going back because as being like founders of Taipei,
people like you always wanna win.
this is you're not gonna win,
and it's same goes for parenting and Children as communicating with your spouse.
It's not about winning.
It's about like winning together,
which means you're you and your ideas are not always perfect.
And you're not gonna be the one,
You have to accept it and going with open mind and just make sure you're your old come out better like we Ah,
there's the school and Seattle that we really want to get into its gold u C D s.
University child development schools. They basically by University of Washington. They've been there for, like, 100 years. But they're teaching is completely different from what everyone else is doing. Ah, they don't have grades. They don't have, you know that they're not thinking of like S A T s or whatever. They're just teaching kids to be curious and to learn And we said, Well, how do you guys come up with a curriculum that like? Well, every week the teachers get together and they work on the curriculum. And very often that means you're not gonna win.
You know, your your ideas is not gonna be the one that picked for the kids. But you're in it for the kids. You're not there for yourself. And I really loved this because they're like, Yeah, I like it doesn't really matter who wins with matters that they're gonna have a great time and learn something. And that's really hard to remember and really, really hard to like live by. But if you do it, I hope it well, we're better at the end.
I think that's that's really it's not about us.
It's important thing.
I think the one thing I have seen it when you're saying that was being Taipei,
you tend to want to take action really quickly,
and you want to be very decisive and say,
I can see where we wanna go.
I made the decision up already,
but it's about slowing yourself down and really take it.
Like you said,
taking a team approach.
and it goes back to the patient's thing.
Like I would say,
my personality works against me and that because I want to just,
like, go, go, go, go, go. You know, like, let's Earl and you then mandate that from your kids, as opposed to you taking the slower route to say, like, I'm gonna teach them through this moment or explain to them why here, what they're concerned about, You know, maybe. Why are they not putting their shoes on?
Oh, cause they have, ah, got a cut on their foot and they it hurts him. You know, it's like, OK, why is it taking you so long with your shoes on? Just come on. We gotta get the door. It's like, OK, well, maybe they need a band aid. You know, maybe that's a stupid example,
but it's like you can force him to do something and not take the time to say so. I hear you. What's going on with you? You know, like what? What do you need from me here? How are you doing today or, you know, it's It's all about patients and and slowing things down. And that works against me for my personality. So
this is part of the answer to a question of the very beginning.
what's the importance of these,
ride that interviews and podcast like yours and other similar broadcasters?
You can learn from all this parents little bits,
even if it's just a hour long conversations and none of it appeals to you should still listen when you have a chance,
because something somewhere will appeal and you'll find something you like.
We were talking about this patient's and like How kids,
What kids are gonna be in 20 years.
And they mentioned to you.
I interviewed Jeff Ralston,
the new president of Y Combinator,
and his kids are now hitting college,
and he's seen more than most of my other guests,
right? And he still says, Look, remember the end of the day you don't know for a couple of decades what's gonna turn out, But it's not about you. It's about your kids. So very often we try to take our own hopes for yours aspirations and channel them entire kids and prying a process their behavior through our own emotions. But that's incorrect, like they're them and you're you and you have to remember that.
Yeah, well, that's a good way. Good way to end it. Um, so check out the rad Dad shows rad dad dot com.
Read that show
dot com rad dad show dot com Where else can they find you online?
Ah, vacant fine. Youand twitter instagram my own website. But we'll just linked to it. Since my first and last name of kind of complicated to spell, we're gonna put people through the grind
there and then give me the rundown on smash notes because that's your new startup side hustle that you have going
So tell us about that.
Quick about smash notes is,
it's kind of like Wikipedia meets podcast.
So now the podcasts of growing and that's getting harder and harder to find your information.
Every week I listen to basically dozens of hours of podcasts and then find the ones that were the most interesting and I summarize them in the Q and A for So instead of just reading long transcripts,
we can go in read questions,
and if the questions appeal to you,
you can then listen to that just specific snippet of every podcast,
so it's very it's both aside and a podcast.
You can subscribe to smash those podcasts on whatever you're listening to podcasts.
And then every week you just get the top 10 segments in audio.
But if you wantto read Maur and learn Maur and kind of discover new stuff,
then you can also go on a website and go through all of that.
for example, when you published this podcast, the Q and A's will all be on some MASH notes. And people can find something about education or something about being confident, you know, like little bits and learned those without having to listen for an hour and then what's been happening to everybody who's tried it so far. First of all, did you know there's like 30% of people who listen to podcasts video? Actually, listen, they just read, So it's really yeah like that. That's a lot of people, right? And for them, it's actually really useful because now they can continue reading, except they can read a lot more because they can just find relevant stuff. And for
sir you saying they just read the transcript or they listen and then reading things
like they consume podcast. But they just read transcripts so interesting and 30% Wow. Yeah. Ah, and I've got that number from listening to a couple podcasters have mentioned just how many people on their podcast do that because they tracked those metrics, right? And, ah, my early uses, basically, who read? They did say that this is basically now the fastest way to consume podcasts because transcripts along you know who wants to go read five pages of a transcript like I don't know, like, who's got the time? But if they go and read just five segments and so that was really interesting. What happens is, then they go and actually listen to your entire episode,
right? Right, So that's interesting. That's really
like I did this because when I was doing this smashing Ah, the ride, that podcast. I found it really difficult to share things like you and I both know. David Hunter, Meyer Hanson. But somebody who doesn't know what Ruby on rails this with base campus. It's really hard for me to say. Here, listen to this hour long interview. You'll learn something interesting, right? But now I can say here. Listen to this two minute segment. We'll read it if you don't have time. And it just creates so much more traction for podcasters.
That's really cool. So smash nose dot com. Okay. All right. Well, thank you so much for being on. I really appreciate, man. Thank you for taking the time
being awesome. Thank you very much.
Thank you so much for listening to the show. I hope you found value in it. If you did send it to a dad that you know, that's not already a listener subscriber. And if you haven't already, head over to to set dad dot com and you can sign up for email list and get notified when new episodes alive or other things come out. Um, please be intentional with your kids. Spend time with them, but intentional time until next time. I'm Mike sitting on this twosome. Dad.