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Jude Gomila: CEO of Golden - Polymaths at work

Crazy Wisdom podcast.

July 03

Really loved digging deep into Jude's philosophy on life and work as well as how Golden is going to organize the world's information like no one has done before. 

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We think we had something locked down and then it flips to a completely different way mechanism off explaining something. Either the outcome. It's very different. All the mechanics of explaining something different, and I think we have to be prepared that allow these claims. We have statements that have just trying to see arguing about things. Try and get better, cleans and push forward. And sometimes there's gonna be one of those in a complete disgrace with good. They got it right.

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My name is Stuart Allsop, and this is my podcast Crazy wisdom, where interview creative people about how they work with and manage the stress that is inherent in creative work. Whatever realized over the past 10 years of my research is that anybody who is creating something of value that is significantly different from what has come before is considered crazy. Most of us have a fear and angering fear of going crazy s. So what I'm saying is grab onto that fear, realize that it's there and just go with it because the problems we're going to be facing over the next 20 years require crazy people in order to solve them. So welcome to the crazy with the podcast. My guest here is Jude Go Mila. He's the CEO of Goldman, has made 150 investments over his career, and he's the previous co founder of Hey Zap! And we were just talking before we started recording about why you named it

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Where did the name for Golden.com come from?

On one side, Jude Gomila read a book in which he'd found a "golden thread" about what it takes to complete a thread of knowledge. On the other, there was a practicality aspect which made Golden into a great brand.



Golden. Can you get into that? That's a great question. So it starts with a book called Goto Lesher Bark and this book. Yeah, I'm not sure if you're ready. No, it is. It is a fantastic book that everyone should try an attempt to read. Some of the sections are quite difficult to understand, and it's just it's kind of talking about some very deep concepts that lying, possibly philosophy and mathematics. And there's an linkages between mathematics and artwork. So it's a it's a it's a pretty big slaughter. You gotta go through thousands of pages on that 1000 pages also, and it has has some interesting proofs on proving out. One plus one equals two s.

Oh, there is this golden threat in sight inside the book, this kind of idea, this golden thread, things linking things together. Three second component was This is also a kind of related to the book. But there is. There's a mathematician called Total, and he had this incompleteness fear, um, was just fascinating. People should go read about that on, um, that incompleteness for miss. It's related to sense Golden's mission to try and help the world's knowledge on dhe, the the the idea that that may be very difficult.

That may be that kind of problem space. We may not be able to map out everything that's true. We may be able to get everything in there, so it's gonna always be incomplete on, but that's that's okay, So there's that kind of hidden into the name. And then there's a practical checking flight. When you're building a name. Well, you need Thio. You need to think about all these different, very bold style consumers will users or people interacting with a brand. You gotta think about downside. You gotta think about upside. You gotta think about number syllables. How repeatable is how many mistakes people could make.

So many variables I have to run it against. And then there's the practicality of how do you even go and get gold dot com and you have a Twitter handle. Got flights to do this and like went to Golden, Colorado, when our ski trip and went from getting the golden door Aye, aye to the golden taco to the golden dot com to the Twitter handle on all sorts of stuff in that journey to train build that brown together, I wanted to build a brand that was very long. That's golden. Yeah, it was good that was going on, and you can play a different levels. It's like this. Yeah, you can play at this This simplicity kind of quick level, and you can play a deeper level. It came together, actually.

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Well, that's the When I first started what it before I knew about what it was. Sounds like Oh, it's golden, You know? It's like it's It's like I guess I would be California

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saying, Michael Golden. Yeah, there's something San Francisco like elements to it. California, Alan's tow This there's like Global. It just works wherever you are. So kind of works on different levels, and I think it's it's quite pleased with how it went.

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And so what are you guys doing exactly?

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So the mission is to try and map out almost every single thing that we think it's an entity, something that exists not necessarily article. But it is describing an entity and describing it primarily for humans but also making a machine readable the last 18 years the best effort off the world. Wikipedia's built the the kind of knowledge there's six million articles on in English and Mawr in other languages. Um, and it's amazing. It's like one of the best things that that humans have built. So however, when you start looking into it, you start saying Well, why? Why are some pages not there? Why why is hello Sign, which just sold the drop box for 230 million? Why was that? The leader from Wikipedia? Why's the Cryptocurrency Lisk delete from Wikipedia?

Why is the topic of the safe agreement for future tokens? No, on them. Why did you know various genes that are very interesting? Have no information about um, Andi. This this goes on on on on. So when you start looking at other efforts to construct entity data sets, you've got Google monograph who have at least three billion entities and a baseball three billions a lot bigger number than six million articles. So what's happening there. So you go. You know, could we map out every product, every service, every company, every kind of person in business and science or extended sets of people that my little local exports,

every concept into into Extreme Deacon And that, that is that is gonna make it accessible, Open for the world of creative Commons. Foreman, do something. Do something that is non linear that that's what I wanted to

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get into. And Howard in. You guys are doing this with essentially a new technology that has been developed. Correct,

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Yes. So that we're developing technologies as we speaking on. We're a small foot in the door on, like, the road map that really needs to be pulled off to achieve this in its in its full of grand vision. So we've been working for about two years. Andi built various pieces of the puzzle Andi seems to work in that we looked we launched a few days ago. Um, that that seems to have resonated well with people on Twitter wth e. The complexity of the task is quite high and as many different ways to do it so that that's the interesting part. Now we navigate all paths in the ways to do, to do this North Star and even defining what the North Star really is. Well,

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and it seems this is a highly ambitious project to like. This is something I really like about it, which is that you're taking on something that nobody thinks anybody can take on, which is like Wikipedia and like, Yeah, it's like But you guys are gonna do it and it saps, right?

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Yeah, it is a difficult tosses. Wikipedia is genuinely one of the best things that we built, and it's taken hundreds of thousands people to put it together. So one of our one of our friends thinking is, If you forget play, I problem. He's That's, uh, she put it on Silent. That's so far is not

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done yet, But we have this lift movie difficult to get to.

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Yes, so it's a classic example. The first phone goes off and turned. I found the phone to minimums volume, but it still goes off, so software's not done yet. And in the same analogy here, our collection of human knowledge, a collection of knowledge is not finished, and we have we have a long way to go, so I'd be very surprising if if Wikipedia would be the absolute final human humanity's answer for all entirety going forward to to collect human knowledge on whether it's accumulated various constraints along the way. It's being roughly 18 years. Accumulation of constraints leads to these opportunities coming about that they can't necessarily execute all, even if they wanted to. So, you know, it's like the question is also why now went on 10 years away.

Why 10 years before people have attempted this? 10 years ago, it didn't work out Necessarily. So many things have happened since then. Said the cost of storage is being fooling very quickly. There are many new Ai ai algorithms all over the place, which we can go into that built up. We've understood community dynamics more from Facebook and Twitter. We've understood real identity. We've understood the get model, and we've done this to transparency. So at this point, there are many pieces of the puzzle that I've come together that weren't necessarily they're back 10 years ago that may allow us to pull this off.

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Let's talk about the new aye aye mission

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learning type of stuff that Sze developed now. So what we saw There was a recent developments from opening I where there's this attempt to write in natural language with Mitt with machine intelligence. So that is a heart problem. Can we get to the level where you can write Amazing book about something with a guy now that we had sports? But I think if you zoom back, you could write up a sports game and cover all plays. It's a much probably smaller face. Stace, get they get the get the contact. Correct. So when you're trying to write something more encyclopedic, could you pull it off for that opening? I fought there? Results is so good that they helped a lot of stuff back recently. There were some developments on the weekends where they opened a bit more up. So that's one area meaning for can you can you write with a I the other parts. The other piece of the puzzle.

Can you do something called topic prediction? So if you've got a document, if you got a webpage and you see something new in there with that Christmas has 12 e, Can you detect what that thing is because you could strip out all the things you do know your reference it against your entity database and say it was not normal, crisper, and it's no university off X and you pull out all the stuff you pull out. The step was, Stop you memorizing, antagonizing? You can start to figure out predictions on I think this is a new thing, and then you can also for it to a human as well. And so can you verify this? You get a human in the loop. So that's the topic prediction part, which allows you to say, there's something there that's new and this is coming out from the academic papers.

Or maybe it's in a in a press release. So we hook into, we hook into news and ourselves feeds. We were calling the weapons targeted way, and we're looking at academic papers and trying to say Okay, could we predict that something new in here once you want, you're finding this new object, then you then you're trying to do something a little taxonomic detection. So what is this thing? Is this a company? Is this a person? This is a concept that technology is a product service animal species. What is it? And so that that that's also got some that's had some headway as well recently. So there's there's improvements and how to do the taxonomic detection. And then once you know what it is,

we've got templates of various different things. So we say, OK, this is a company. We think this thing is a company, that thing that's being named Let's just call it Flex Port. The first press release flexible came out. You see this word flex for What is it? Well, in the document it saying It's referring to a CEO. It's referring to a location that's referring to funning around so you can start the 0.2 attacks on my detector that say, this is a company. So once you know it's a company, you've got enough shop template and you know these different actually use. The company has a location, a CEO,

all these other attributes, the proxy release, the subsidiaries and parent companies. And then you could start trying to fill the men to their specific on algorithms for saying in this document, Can you detect a si year? Because the sentence may say this year's X or blow bar come up, CEO said. Actually, there's also informed of the language, and it's like trying to fill the attributes of that. So it gives you a sense of the structure data

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interrupt you just for a second. What you're talking about is building a new page for a new thing that you guys find. You crawl the Web for, say, flex board webpage on what Flex Port is. And then you're talking about how the the Neural Med or whatever is actually filling

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that page correct with, Yeah, Then it's helped populate the information because there's two sides of That's a structured data s Oh, there's the attributes of what it is on. Then it's the other structure pros and that that's more of a recent opening I stuff that they did with writing natural language.

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So there's categorizing. And then there's

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populating yet categorizing on populating on the structured side and populating on the on the pro side, writing up about in human readable form. On Gwen, you put that stop put that stuff together on there's extra information and links around this entity. Start pulling it together like this is the bed court best possible podcast about this is the best blow post about this. Is this an academic paper? It's not to collect this information object around the empty, which starts to become useful.

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So you have an entity offline in the real space. Now what you're trying to do is represent that, most of which is happening with no human direct interpreter intervention.

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Ideally, we would do the work alone automatic way so the humans get to spend it learning on you can look. Obviously, you learn by writing so you don't want to cut out writing. Maybe you could write new things or opinions around. It'll takes on it, and I want I want to remove a lot the manual work involved in the process of constructing this information. So in an ideal way, if we're gonna describe this object, we may want to build a perfect Freedy object with less information labels and like abstractions of what this object is in this, like there's a machine readable view like What does this look like from a machine? Is the human view that's definitely overlap between Maybe it's the same thing I don't know. So you're putting that description of the object together in a useful way and getting it useful. Human is good because it means that this engagement from so maybe help fill the gaps. And I think that murdered, like what we've done it is trying to put to the two sides together where humans get bored with sent repetitive tasks. We wanna automate it where a eyes failing, Well, let's bring in the human together. And to get on these hybrid systems, I think they're much more effective than just one

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will be over. And this is what I've been lamenting on very recently is just had a bloke for podcast episodes in a row, and it's just, you know, it was an hour of very mindless tasks mixed with creative tasks on if I could only focus on the creative task of writing the description, but even that I want eventually automate that because that's not that interesting to make. But it's just constant clicking, clicking, clicking, and it's like, Why, What am I doing this

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and I created on that point. Creativity seems to be very relative in that if you had a cat using a computer doing these so called basic tasks that would be very created for the cat. But Roger that creativity is like the obstruction of like either something complex or something known repetitive. It's tricky cause, like something's in mathematics all repetitive, that process of maybe you're going and checking the fuel. The logic from the line work that's potentially repressed tip of the structures of the more abstracted creative parts with may be simple and elegant, maybe elegant, but difficult. So just like this, this tide that's moving of one is a creative task, moving from like a stone age of someone using software to to like, Hey, we don't want to do this anymore. We've done it too much.

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That's a really important part. Essentially, creativity is relative to the person creating, so something that is creative to somebody will not be created to

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the other person. Yes, relatives of many different things is relative to themselves. It's relative to the market. It's a LL society or previous prior art. It's relative painting that is an exact replica off bang bang off when that if that person had never mean connected to society, the Internet never seen the image. But I just come up with it themselves that you could say that's like, really creative. But if if they just there to exactly replicate it, maybe you could build a machine. Thio drop. You have a free D printing drop that machine to paint the paint the picture. So just with the frame of frames of putting it that like it's changing what we're defining creativity message that it seems to be a very wide definition space. Well, creativity. Radio. Yeah,

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So I know we had a bunch of topics that we've talked about beforehand, but this seems like it's a really important topic, which is evolution because 20,000 years ago, if we're around the fire, creativity could mean creamy come dancing with somebody coming up with new song, this thing around the fire and now our brains air starting to merge with computers, for example. You know, I do duel and go every day. Do a lingo is enhancing my ability to creatively speak with another human being in another language. Where we going with with this this this mixture of human and technology?

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Yeah, And if that is the basis for like talking about creativity and maybe maybe it's really novelty because that dance that dance today could be still very creative if someone someone dances, doesn't creative dancer is original because his originality in the collective space of who has the information and knowledge and a lot of people refer to creativity is something novel. So what's normal is normal to that group because it may be out there somewhere in the universe. It may already be there on everything we did on Earth may not be created at all. It may be the lowest form of creativity is

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so important and particularly yoga. I've been thinking about this question with yoga. There's a lot of postures there now that had been invented in last 150 years, and they call them yoga. But they give them that the the semblance of tradition. But they've got really been invested, invented in the last 150 years. But the human body has always been able to. Not always. The human body has been able to move in this way for a very long time, so somebody has moved in this way before. But that new knowledge of how to move is being transmitted to me, and sometimes it's through the Internet. Sometimes it through a YouTube video of me watching somebody do a dance move on like that. My brain has not, doesn't know how to make that movement. But now that I've seen this person and I practiced this movement,

my brain now knows how to do this model moving. Same thing applies also to knowledge. For example, 400 BC, around the time of actual age. Huge time for thought in Greece. Huge time for thought. India. Tons of things were written, all of it lost, like lost to the general population. Where did it go? You know, it's like a lot of it was burned. And then we rediscovered it in the Middle Ages through these intermediaries of Arabic sources that were translating old Greek documents like So, like the knowledge gets lost and then it gets it gets created, not created, get to re found

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it becomes creative again. So the rediscovery of the noble process to us that it feels creative again. If you discover something you've made that creative, someone's gonna label that novel. Someone's gonna label that creative. Is it creative in abstraction? Is it creative when there's no observer it that that is something where you would have to do you know? Well, maybe that was a whole bunch of other interesting questions like What is it? Is something something be inherently created without any kind of observer That's after metamorphic definition or, you know, even a conscious mind definition of like creativity. So it's all that creativity of the creativity definitions up a purely abstracted from from a conscious life you like judging that to be a creative thing.

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Can we get more into that? I'm not quite clear on what that means.

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So we we were talking about how the creativity and the novelty waas somewhat reference to the viewers off that situation which might be yourself in. It's an individual. It might be a collective of people society, and they're saying we have a saying. The people having the conversation are saying This is a creative thing that occurs. But if you take those people away on dhe, it wasn't a creative thing that occurred. Or was it more creative? She could reach you removed more for like an entropy definition where this is like some very high entropy. Although inter Peace Day or mixed entropy state, which is a very unusual state in the universe and this was creativity. Max. Take Mark's idea and some of his papers about space, time cut complexity curves or some of these particles in some in some kind of system state. Which which, you know, that could be a viewpoint off,

like a very mutual definition of creativity where there's no authorization of off what it is. Or when I said, I perform authorization that abstracted, toe conscious mind definition of human most saying Yeah, super set to human minds. Judging, judging this and processing and labeling What borders Know what waters creative, creating something. There are probably definitions that lie outside of that. Where it is, it's It's something that can stand by itself. But then again, judging it, you still need a machine to judge it.

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Yeah, this girl, this gets really interesting because I view creativity also in the fact that there's a tree outside my house that is there. There was a creative act that created that tree, and regardless of whether human is reviewing that tree, we may we put meaning on that tree. I'm putting meaning on it right now, but the tree exists and that tree was creative. And what is the creative process that created that tree. Yeah,

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as well. And these These are really interested. But this this is part of the reason you build golden and, you know, we get that we get the information out then and people Iose view this as well that I want to know more about the universe and how it works. My brain has limitations, many. So how could they build a system that would be inside my constraints and assigned by limitations that would allow other people, let's say, 10 billion other people and some normal vegetables and distribution of mines in there. Okay, I minds in the future that would be able to push, like, push the knowledge forwards. So could I apply my pop prop like some product knowledge side store beginner out in building some kind of system that would allow other people who are smart with me to discover things and be inspired, especially

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young people as a group. And this is a key. So what you're talking about is essentially perfect knowledge. I was thinking about this before I went to sleep last night, which is that my brain will never comprehend the universe as it is. It will only create a model that is an accurate created, a highly interactive inaccurate, as you say. But can a group of humans, augmented by technology, create a more perfect model of

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reality? Yeah, we want to get a perfect model and that that's does part the totals. Incompletes, fairman. That's part of the the Heisenberg's uncertainty principle of this. You cannot get necessarily a perfect model of what's around. You get a really good you get pretty good model, and it's interesting because a pretty good model might be complete. You It might be fundamentally wrong or like giving the right output for the wrong mechanics on the inside. And I think that considers half life of 1/2 life of facts half truth where we think we had something locked down, and then it it flips to a completely from way mechanism of explaining something. Either the outcome. It's very different. All the mechanics of explaining something is different, and I think we have to be prepared that all these claims that we have all these statements that we have just trying to see about a model and we're arguing about things, try and get to bed claims and push it forward.

And sometimes there's gonna be one person that complete disagrees with the hood, and they got it right and we may not find out for a while. I think that's that's That's kind of an interesting problem in the physics community is. Well, it seems to be that there is. There is this, like weird, potentially grinding to a halt identically already but on making big leaps in physics on possibly as well because of some of the energy requirements required to go test the theories out of outstripping. You know, the resource is we have on, especially as we have wasted on stupid things, like So So it's a constant, interesting idea if, like what? I'm gonna call a dollar falsify ability like you say, you say it claim that I want to go and scientifically tested or force a fire or the vice theory the weighing and have to put some dollars of some time down on.

You have to put some computation downfall, and there are limits to computation and there are limits to dollars, and there are limits to our time in a biological sense. So we're going to start seeing ourselves at least a human's head up against some of these things where you know if we gotta build son, that's the size of the Earth that has to go around the earth to start to test out. Yeah, some of the super symmetry You're like some of the string theory. I did the energy level Stop, become really high and go outside of. We're trying to go outside of possibly being out to validate things This store lost often do. Don't get me wrong. There's tons of stuff to go out today by biology's open season. Chemistry's probably open season. There's tons of stuff in physics to do some very fundamental stuff. It's becoming a math. Is open season that is becoming a brain limitation.

Proper problem, possibly or the least education scale problem? Onda physics part. That's because we're starting to see new limitation. New issues of resource is, but maybe you could argue we already happen. Like the Middle Ages. You could could make it, son. Middle Ages does need a bit of client.

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Well, that's what I'm thinking is that we can create models of this. For example, climate change. We can create models of climate change But we can't actually understand what happens until climate change happens, right?

25:30

Yeah, Well, you could make a model that you could get you to reference it against a real world. Some of the events, especially for the one time events or black swan events or catastrophic, chaotic events. They prove it's really go prove it. You may have to let it run through. You get one chance because it kills the observer on things way The observer dies in waiting to know which way it's gonna go So you could go Pascal's wager. And you could say, Well, I'm not gonna take a risk with that. I'm gonna I'm not gonna wait for the asteroid hit you. I'm gonna deflect it just in case. And then it's about what we have all these different risks, and we're objective society for what

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we're gonna do. What are the most important risk their society?

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I don't know if this is another thing that yet this is something that you know we could for a potential risk you want to look at. But we don't know and we don't know how to apportion risk is really difficult. Poor abilities really difficult to apportion risk is difficult. Portion on, Dude, A pebble has a great vocal. The Book of Wide. Not sure if you heard of that look the three days it's it's really cool. And there were many limitations in all brain for like associating. I guess our causation models like real probability. How real probability works as always, like paradox is like, You know, that three book door problem where our brains don't necessarily get intuitive sense on real probability and that that comes to risk so that those floors that we have, um, well, that also sometimes maybe advantages the they weren't necessary.

They don't translate well into human understanding risk, and especially for chaotic systems like like the Climate system way may not be able to get our act together in time. So that's one dancer question that's one little Catholic. Recycle this climate risk and that transcendental, in many different ways is the overheating problem and damaging the sea from from acidity overheating. And it's over a little bit. There'll be some places that are very cold and that that confuses normal people because it is well, if we go this climate change, then how how some places getting cold, colder winters because the chaos very part is very hard to understand. And I think just teaching this should be a part of, like, syllabus is of just like trying to stall these complex ideas and simple into a simpler way to talk about simple but not simplistic. Um, maybe, yeah,

maybe in a while to get the without removing the gist of what it really is like it's still gonna be like N v P definition of like, What is this thing we try to deal with? And then we see you get politicized This wall like climate change, things got politicized and so back for the risks. We got this risk category. Sory. Trust me one. They should be. Beat some people up at night, but not too much. I need to work in the morning. So we got this climate climate change for it. That's a species species extension wrist. So we're getting rid of biodiversity and likewise that land well, it's bad because of the systems are more robust when you have diversity. The animal.

So that's interesting. Products and learnings that can come from like various different species as well that we may lose that data. So we should at least back up the genomes of every single species and every single variation. Every cell inside of every there's a human cell atlas project. But there is a human cell atlas project to map it. There's there's the Paul Allen bring mapping project. So they're all these interesting mapping projects that we seem to be doing right now, which is which is good news. But that might not be the best thing, because the mapping is gonna have a limitation. So we still want to keep the original sources. It's like, Hey, this is great book in the library and like he's burning. You got 30 seconds to go. Scan it,

Andi, send an email out. It's like, Well, can I just run out with a book and put the fire out? So is that level risking that we got this? This guy? Aye, aye, territory of risk. And I think there's a lot of scam hungry man law. Yeah, debates on how dangerous it is. And once again, it's something that I don't know. I can't claim to say.

I don't know. I read the book on Super Intelligent by Nick Bottom and that has an interesting take on it. Um, I personally do you know how the judge to rescue a sign, any kind of probability? Oh, interesting.

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And this might go into another thing about not knowing, because I don't know either. I don't know if you know, but here in Silicon Valley and it's kind of spreading to the rest of the world, we have essentially a Messianic view on technology. That technology is the only thing that's gonna save us. And then now we're in this kind of weird feedback loop where technology was the thing that saving us. And that's causing the problems that everybody sees, even if some of us disagreed about whether their problems or not. But it keeps on going. To my mind. There is no solution. There's no out unless technology plus something else. And I think that something else is philosophy, yoga, things that can help us be more human with in the midst of rapid change. What do you think about this Messianic kind of sense of technology? Can technology help us survive?

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Yeah. Yet some technologies? Yes, some technologies. I mean, when we talk about tech company, there are some tech companies that create extreme network effects that where some people do not win on dhe, There are some tech companies where it's a zero sum game, negative sum game. There's something there's something repulsive some game. There was something posted, some game on an average level, but some lost in someone. Andre will have different functions on that on that value exchange, so there's not that way to view it. But I do think there is a lot of components. There's technology without the direction is is not so useful.

You have to have a direction on that direction. Probably need some difficult framework. It probably needs an ethical framework off the society that you're working inside. Maybe a wider view of the universe is well and that that becomes difficult and then even to lock that down, you need some kind of contracts, you some social contracts, union communication. I think education is the interesting way Ford illness because it gives you a lot of Optionality to solve the problems and understand the problem. So it's it's it's almost as if Hey, you remember the trolley problem with where you got the rails and someone strapped to the rail and you got to people like with this pick one case that we got two people in this railing, one person, this rail, You have a certain amount of time. Yeah, maybe his default set it set to like killing two people. So you're gonna flip the road.

You know, there's always different configuration of the problem, so you could and you got five minutes to think this for you. You might wanna wait until the last second to pull the trigger on that. That's the education part where it's like, Hey, I want the optionality to understand the problem set on understanding how to solve these things and what we could do that so that that's the technology. Education is required the technologies technologies required. This difference is all between the technology on detect Companies of some technology should be open souls. It's better to do that on no. Everything necessarily has to be a tech company. Know everything. It should be in a monopoly, and something's better. Please, Andi,

they're actually better for the consumers in the police, sometimes on someone better in monopolies. When I have regulations, I think it's a whole set of different cases and this problem hit everybody munches altogether and then says, No, bad, take it bad and it's like, Let's look at the individual cases. Let's try and abstracts, um, categories where you could you could even interface where, Hey, the backlash could be so large that you may have the You may have companies becoming be corpse, which is where you can write into a charter. Constraints like this company will do none of this. None of that before the company even get started.

Maybe some investors will start Thio. You know, it's maybe people will be asking for this before companies formed feet to write down certain charters. Difficult offers. Maybe you say this company will never engage in negative some games, but measuring it's hard, but you have to find a negative side defining how you measure it. Everyone's going different measures, measurement ways. So, yeah, these things entire set of good problems till I look into you now,

33:22

how are you guys talking about it? We go,

33:24

Yeah, so that's that's a great picture. So the intention, you know, the company is to try and do something that's really useful for the world. No, have really any negative outputs. Can you do something without having? But then again, you could say, Well, you guys using electricity on a computer that electricity is coming from right now probably hitman on renewable source and you also you're adding to climate change. So So there's lots of, like ways to look at this, and this is where it's a trade off. I'm trying to do this good objective, but I've got some wake on.

How do you minimize your wake? How do you leave no trace when you go toe that the national park? And that that's the kind of one of the principals were trying todo How do you try and be ethical and deal making and people talk. I don't really think see people talking about this is what every I don't see investors asking about these questions like, What do you consider unethical deal? What do you consider an unethical deal on before for on an individual basis or offer society? None of that stuff really gets discussed. But there there is a law. There is a lot of tension right now, as you know, with tech companies with monopolies with non linear power law curve type type company, so we may be entering a phase. Now with this, this stuff will start getting opened, entering on just trying to solve problems. Right now,

we're seeing what, more like clean meat companies and plant based meat companies, and it almost clean tech is back. Like, can you take two point? Oh, but it is not under that name. That

34:48

name. Well, this is there's a problem. I see with this as well, which is the pain lip service to. So instead of actually people carrying about these issues, they're gonna start paying lip service to it. And investors are gonna start asking like, Oh, look at this company I've got who's creating a plant based meat. But that plant based meat is actually really, really horrible for your body. Like

35:6

like, yeah, So this is this. You go to solve one problem and that there could be other problems that can be created Now, this is still good in that. Well, maybe maybe we can like this red sun screen. There are certain chemicals that gets into your bloodstream. And now this There's looking. Look into those chemicals and the effects of it. So you know, you wanted to solve the problem you create Another problem is problem. One larger problem to and then how do we solve? Walk into a very important And I think you should know this for sure. This foreign talents like Okay, what I got this problem too is only a problem to a small problem one on, then smaller how they measure it.

But it's clear there's order of magnitude difference. But sometimes the problem spaceships. You shifted from one group people to another group of people. He shifted from people to animals. We achieve that from animals to the environment, on the environment, animals, you shift the problem around. So this is another thing as well have seen Could be creative. What? We take out the problems with maybe two companies, maybe portfolios from investors built where this company went into this. But this company took out that week. So we know that waves constructively into food and they add up to be a problem with that they can cancel each other out. So there might be ways that we can start being smart bell, especially as we as we see more more companies come out on all the variations get covered where we consult. Be clever about that.

36:25

Um so here's a question that it's gonna be interesting. Capitalism. You are trying to create a company, And can capitalism and good at the cool chemical exist? Can ethics and capitalism co exist? I think

36:43

so, Yeah, I think so. I think not necessarily fully 100% unregulated capitalism. I mean, we know capitalism already is regulated. Even if you remove a lot of laws, you're still operating on a US dollar. You're still operational. A bunch of laws, principles, principles. So it's so the capitalism that we have today, even what is considered free market capitalism is not 100% free market. You can't. You can't fire a nuclear weapon at your competitors. In the most extreme example,

you're not have to do that. So we're not in. We never will be in free market capitalism. So that's like what is a sensible set of rules? And also, if you think about sport, if you don't set up rules, the sport becomes on interesting. But so how? How is how can we create rules that serve the maximum number? Well, if you say maximum people, you sleeping Apple animals. You cleaning other effects. So there's always, like,

think of like, how you gonna wait? All this stuff fell on some. How you gonna wait out? The stakeholders, in turn waited in terms of like, how you maximize that, that kind of experience, or like, post of experience from this and define even more, posted this and think so, Yeah, I think capitalism, already in many situations, is a big driving force for a lot of progress and of our collars on dhe solved lots of medical diseases free, like the right incentives,

incentive structures as well, Like the interesting one. How can we get into infrastructure, right for what is classically considered the postive thing on? Then this comes back to It's well, it's a positive thing, getting all humans happy and well fed. So we could go to 100 billion people on the earth and have no animals like So what is that balance? What would be trying to reach? And it comes to that sustainability are so it starts getting into from Harry ethical areas a tricky But I do believe capitalism. Um, can and, uh, you know, positivity can can come together, and I think we need to stop breaking down some of the characteristics where certain cos it's not necessarily a good thing for them to be a monopoly on consumer gets a greedy about experience and some of them where the consumer gets a great experience,

it is a monopoly, But we set sail, press fresh hold, Andi. There is kind of ways to solve the soul of the problems. Much very complex objects

39:8

and systems so again goes back to I don't know. But here's what My guess is that I'm gonna put it So you've got a great list here in front of you. Of all the things that sent you we talked about before and what are you most interested in talking about? Well, um

39:23

I mean, we could go a little bit into creativity. Well, techniques for creativity, I saw. That's one of the questions I frantically used that techniques to come up with the techniques. But I write down things I collected from usually other Pete watching other people on dhe. I don't know where there's anything on this list which, like, originally come up with myself and this is more liquor collection. Oh, um, a collection of techniques. So I'm gonna go through some of them. I'm just gonna back reverse to another page real quick. So one of the woman was a story about Dyson on the vacuum cleaner. So I thought,

this is quite an interesting, interesting story that the actual war vortex that's inside that you know, that rotating ball, Texas, tonight, the vacuum cleaner that comes actually from industrial process for separating, I think like some kind of fight, rocks or chemical. I'm not exactly sure what chemical that was like dust and rocks. They have to separate. And so he said he had seen this story goes, and I don't know if it's true. If someone told me way need to research it, like throw that he had seen this giant drum this, like, huge drum in a factory spinning around.

And that was part of the inspiration for taking it into the Dyson. And that, to me, is a single. I call it analogy and transfer. So you find this cool thing and you take it down. Maybe you change it for scale. So what happens if I blow it up? Boy? Shrink it down, will it? What effects? Well, the effects get better or worse. So I think thinking about that, it's one of your dimensions to play when solving problems is interesting.

And, um, the other thing, if you look back to his early work, you've also got wheel barrettes, I think, for its Royal College of Art, and this needs to be checked it again. Project. When it was more of a student, he had this will wheelbarrow and classically, the wheelbarrows. They fall over the mud, left the right cause they got this normal wheel. He had this ball wheel on an immense. The wait was distributed over a large area is on the ball.

So when it came to a going over a mud patch, it didn't fall over left. Right Now, if you look at them in the bottom, Dyson's he's taken that ball and he's got it in the ball off the other Dyson Hoover. You see that ball of the bomb? Dyson Hoover. So that's another one. Recycle, recycle ideas, A ll day long recycle and remixing. Recycle good ideas. Take them from somewhere, put them somewhere else and recycle your own ideas because you might have a good idea. You may know, deployed yet something so recycling and keep thinking about what your best ideas on can can be applied in different ways.

Um, another thing. This is kind of like the Charlie Manga Warren Buffett mental models building out hundreds and hundreds of thousands of mental models during pictures of him. If if you have time and producing the anti model making the inverse it like, where is the model break? Where is this? Like the model? Imagine that someone arguing against your best that appointed best arguments. And also we have on using that as well. Thio, run, run an argument. Run a counter argument against keep going back and forth and go down all the trees. That's a very good way. It's well of checking like your thesis on like your creativity. You're gonna come up with these statements that you want

42:38

to test. How did you guys do this with Golden?

42:41

I'll be doing in my head, and I think the team right now we're probably doing it live. In a sense, I don't know the other.

42:49

This is the question that I've been making models and testing it out all in this mind space, which seems disconnected from physical reality as opposed to just doing it and figuring out really with live data.

43:1

Yes, so the more we have models, we have ideas and models that were testing, and we're learning. As we add new team members, we learn maybe some of them models. Then we pitch, and sometimes Smalls clash like we have a fundamental and you and you seem out of that you have a fundamentally different world view on some other assumption, which you can have a discussion about and in light. You've got a limited amount of time when you build a company limited amount time to do it. You're a limited amount of capital to limit about time, and the clock is against you. Write your own ways against you so you can't necessarily go to philosophical the time. But it's interesting. If you could take that stuff out into your free time than its interest, you get to know each other. Wetmore building anti models and this kind of constant like even save Krypton.

A lot of people want my Krypton models of X and Y and Z, and a lot of people have put out white papers so that my my suggestion that we build the anti white paper on You could do this for everything. So it was built, the end of us off your best of your best pitch and see, like their best the best pitch against your best pitch and see which one wins out and be flexible. But I'd be willing to jump to the other side.

44:2

What is the anti

44:3

model for gold? Well, the anti model for gold. That's a That's a good question. Okay, so you could say, OK, well, let's build a fully distributed version on the block chain and we have that we could be back sometimes in verse is not necessarily incompatible with the other thing. The inverse made locking perfectly, so we think we could if we wanted, we could write the information to a Blockchain have distributed component for backup reasons. Safe. Like all the AWS service, got Newt around the country like we want this information to be everywhere, so so that there will be one dimension and also break things out in two dimensions. I think with creativity is it's easy if you understand some salient dimensions that make up the problem space, so one of the problems faces centralization of decentralization Really identity versus an amenity

44:50

police spectrums that basically you have

44:52

to land somewhere on the spectrum. You gotta choose. Yes, I want more than things as well. With designing Golden is to write down the only spectrums and see where you want. It doesn't have to be the extremes, but somewhere extreme. Yeah, it's gotta be somewhere you gotta choose your cheese. So all the crazy pauses. Well, um, they're a proof methods in math, like proof by induction on dhe. By that, the counter you can use some of you can study that without necessarily knowing how do how do you like do math? You can apply those two also solving problems.

So that's worth reviewing your going through those techniques. And there was a book called Health Sold It at the The Mathematician like has, like, more creative ways to solve math problems. So you could you could take that across to two other kind of problem. That business problems, product problems, life problems, mental issues. Thea other one is like exhausted method going through every single different way of solving the problem. It's like they're all find out in combination. So you thinking through the number of combinations of something and thinking through how big that what we're gonna call the face spaces or something? And then, you know, if it's a smaller face space like they're small number combination, maybe you can think through all the different conversations.

But if it's like very unlimited, maybe you can't. So looking at the problem space and saying Yeah, OK, there's a finite combination like, say, you're trying to take a sofa around a around adore you try to lift it so far up up the stairs. That's a sofa moving problem. So there aren't that many configurations off the sofa on a kind of like holistic the configuration. There are lots of supple angles you could have, but the number of limitations of, like, really orientation there aren't that many. See, you can think about that problem. Space is a small face states of some of the configurations,

but very large face face off. Maybe this the particular angle. So I think thinking about things in terms of face, face off, the off the problems that helps us well, know what you're dealing with it could you use the exhausted methadone. No computer of what? Thinking face faces. Well, you can have model. You can have, like physics models that can calculate. Calculate the face, face off off some problems. Yes, but if you can't define if your moral off the real problem is no very accurate. Then you're not gonna get a very good calculation.

47:14

So it's thinking through the models before you actually introduce them to the computer or introduce

47:18

them. You gotta think for a model. You got a thing for models? Yeah, and I think I think we're probably Seymour that off. Like how a purchase problem. And I don't see any good software for doing now. You see software for, like, writing down tasks I need to do. I don't see product software that walks me through And how people tried to build systems for this. Our was full of distance or little bit cheesy, because you gonna get intuitive about solving knees and you're using methods. Maybe you don't even know how to like Christmas, boys. What? The math.

Maybe we're gonna read out, like, five methods. I try to write down on a piece of paper. You got 1000 back ahead maybe Avery abstracted version. This gets that quitting the other one. So to actually, one of them was, um you're trying to trying to take it into a visual realm. So some of these problems sets I help set for some people, it helps if you really visualize what ISS on let that. I mean, the brain does have a large proportion of proportion of mass associate with visual are. So if you could if you could visualize supporting that, that really visualize support when that can help and it will start thinking about it. So I've got this thing called front burner,

back on the front burner, the things you're trying to solve and sometimes you hear blocker. So that blocker, it's okay to sleep on it and your brain, your subconscious brain, will solve it. And I did have this from one of my Cambridge professors. He This is one of the techniques we use, for example, that you work on you read all the questions in parallel. You start working on some. If you got blocked, you had moved to next question and your brain with the seat working fruit and at the end of the exam, you would come back toe and it sounds obvious, but like you could do that. And if you do overnight,

there is a special effect that's so for homework assignments for difficult math problems, it would be sleeping on it and coming back to in the morning and half the time you probably solved so consciously it works for engineering problems. So it's always good to have a couple of projects on the go at same time, not just one, because you just bang your head against the wall. You just need to take a break. We'll sleep on it. Have a couple of projects on the go, have a couple of problems. Sets come back, too. If you get stuck, make progress in other ways. Maybe it will loop back around and connect together

49:19

this sick. Yeah, this is brings up an interesting point. You don't have to get into this is probably meet saying that that so a lot of people have put an analogy on, Psychedelic says, and they are dream dream machines. They create a dream on. A lot of people say that that's a lot of people in this virtual community say it's you shouldn't do that because you're just playing in this dream world. But a lot of people use psychedelics for that. Various reasons that lets you unblock you because it puts you into that dream state that gets highly creative. And I'll problem solving stuff like that. Yes,

49:51

I will not be thinking a bit about that. So from experience allegedly by it from experience, and I really don't see why there's any kind of stick around this. To be honest, I think we probably we hopefully see what happened with marijuana all over all over the world with psychedelics. But you know that Serious Think they're serious tools just like an F 16 fighter jet, you know, going to step into one on a Sunday when you when you got back. Yeah, you gotta be. You look at it is if you got this like cool, that's like potentially right, powerful, very great, dangerous. And you might need a bit of training on it. You might need to go into that.

I think they're different. People have different constraints of what they think is possible so that the person that that maybe thinks that everything is very constrained and it's not that many possibilities That may be great as a first experience. Just tow, unlock them in the right situation, unlocked him from the constraints that previously fought with that. And I've also means like the skeptical flight that you can see you can see. Some of you can see getting around some of the constraints if you go into the physics and the math anyway, so you can get there in a different way. And then it's also like specific, I think, for maybe for music and arts. It's being yeah, and if it comes more creative like some people have created experiences out from that on. Be honest, everybody's but having different experiences so well, I added. My experiences could be a tiny fraction of the combinations of experiences that

51:25

people have. So although toe come back to your categorization point. But this is what humans are doing. There is a website. There is a stealing fire is the book where they talk about a website where people have started to categorize all these experiences on psychedelic and fit into certain models, particularly with the empty GMT smokable version starts to lead people to see elves pretty reliably.

51:45

Yeah, that can see them right now s Oh, yeah, yes, Of the visual stuff that So there's some interesting papers on on this and this and stuff on Quantum magazine. I think recently about why some of these shapes turn up on dhe. They're all like reasons for, um say, say, in your brain, like if you're turning off certain pathways in your brain or activate certain pathways why some of those shapes stopped showing up on D kind of like artifacts in some of these, I guess in some of your your own, that's that will like such startinto, you could say, resume or reveal themselves that they're on DDE. That stuff is like no super mystical to me when you start looking at there. I think there is something about this looking for hallucinogenic like shapes that you see and why did the mathematics of wider there and you can actually predict the with some of the models and that so that stuff like that became on mystical and then it's also like could use it practically on.

We see a lot of like, you know, I joke, I joke about people people talk about Micro does things like, What about macro? So there's a lot of, like, kind of B s Silicon Valley about micro berry singing like people microdot.

52:54

I don't think that's still gonna be productive for the job

52:56

day job. Yeah, I think I think a lot of it's It's not really that I don't believe it's there from like, all the observation are like Hunt like this. Lots of people. I don't think that stuff it's really happening. But I do think it's like a lof you could like. Release yourself from feedback loops or constraints for nice than this experiences. And then maybe some people love the new Today on what they experience, I have managed to turn it into a truly productive tool. I found the most productive tool to be absolutely correct clarity in the absolute, most sober state with the most amount. Sleep with a nice about hydration with a little bit of Kathy and not yeah, yeah, maybe not yet. Not too much future. So clarity to me is being like a lack of, like, other things going on then, yeah,

53:42

I think that that's pretty clear as well and gets into the like I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with that state. But I don't.

53:50

Yes, I think a lot of people will finally difficult to sit at a desk with a blank piece of paper. And a pen like that to me is like a fantastic evening.

54:0

What do you have? This might get into something that Do you have any advice for people who do have that feeling of uncertainty? Your despair when they sit in front of a white piece of paper and

54:11

maybe don't be Oh, don't do it is my first is my fall. You know why you are you saying that? The first? Do you want to write something to maybe get in front of laptop? Do you want to like Joel? Some things would get trite. Don't use a pen like pick something else. Thinking for the motivations of what? What you're trapped. Why? Why? You know, if your anxieties and interesting that's what it's well, because the law we were talking about founders and, um, you know,

the people push themselves very, very hot coal in these jobs. And yes, if we're going to see, I guess conduct home is a great solution for some of this stuff trying Thio now solve. You know, can you help my mental states for people with with with software systems? Or And that is also an answer for, like, lack of beauty is one right, So we get very, very sight. Individuals have come very, very siloed can. Yes, is a good question that comes to me right now. Can

55:5

we be in community with technology?

55:9

I hope so. I mean, if you remember the film, huh? So the technology starts disappearing and gets goes like you gets hidden away so on gets a lot of connectivity between people. So I hope that the technology is an able of to

55:24

So I'm actually asked Can we actually be in connection and community with the technology itself? Not Oh, not mediate on the

55:32

Yes. So I guess you're saying like that there's a technology itself become, like a conscious mind or in a Iot,

55:38

well, connection. Well, this is this is an interesting question. Is consciousness a prerequisite for community? Because we have we can be in community with dogs, right? Dogs give us a certain sense of community, and they have consciousness. But a different form of consciousness that might be lower, Uh, hiring some case. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So can can technology, Heather, is there any instance of technology right now, or do you foresee a technology that can provide a certain sense of community for human being?

56:7

I don't know. I actually don't know how, but I know I know completely. Sure said the question

56:13

one more time. Okay, so it is in the her movie as well. He gets connection from that relationship with technology. So it has been created before in a creative model that's in a movie.

56:26

And that may not even be a conscious mind in that fill. It may just be like a preset set of scripts of stuff, a very extensive

56:34

South scripts. And this gets into the turn question, which maybe is another Turing question, which is, uh, can this technology actually serve a community role that physiologically represents that you can measure physiologically because when you're in connection with a human being, particularly toucher something else, there are physiological things that happened inside your body that show that

56:59

you are, I think it can actually because, you know, if we're saying technology is its vehicle where I can build whatever it won't that that thing could be what is effectively a human. And it's like this this game to Senator Chris. Oh, we can be a bit of biology stuff. So this is interesting thing of like we see this with crisper being applied. Now a lot of controversial things talk about that, and we see it with, you know, I am. I allowed to build, like if I free d printed up human and it didn't come from embryos, but it printed out every single Paul and I could get, like, constantly entangle states.

And everything really did like this amazing pretty princess. And it didn't do it by that. Circumvented all the laws in terms of off using, like a stem cell. What embryo? The air for Chris bring some animals so shifted, get like some spice, some kind of primary that came back to a human with genetic effects. If you circumvented all the laws freely printed out human that perfectly, you know what's the ownership on that? Because there's no laws on that. So there's no light. Maybe they would maybe you say a person in that that thing is a person on that classified as a person and a law. It's not like I needed to work on this. Gets No. One.

No one has that kind of technology. So I think the there's some interesting questions on biology side because we know there's a law activity now on on changing animal genetics to incorporate son human human characteristics to get products that we need, it could be organs here. Could be adjusting a pig to produce an organ that is more compatible. So you have to have a massive organ. Don't know waiting. Listen, people dying, it could be modifying bolt bloods. It could be doing all sorts of things that maybe there's like a temporary fix for that humans need. So So That's, um, interesting ethical lines on because we were to treat animals and human street human street people pretty badly as well. So how you know, we entering interesting realm of like, how many like how close doesn't have to be to human before you gonna give us rights?

How places, eh? I have to be tight something, and I think they're very far away right now. But how close is need to be if you get stuck gaming rights Yeah,

59:13

that's so interesting. That brings up a whole bunch of other questions, some of which are like geopolitical. And now I want to go interview people who are in China who speak English and tell me about what is going on in China. In terms of these types of things,

59:24

there is a good M. I. T. China Review that had a breakdown on Chinese technology, had some of the biotech stuff occurring as well. And I was at risk that the recent crisper couldn't controversy, which in anything of humans, which is which I think is when it's done for that in, like a careful way with oversight and ethical oversight. It can be a great thing toe. Remove certain issues with the body. It's one in 12 all West and what's happening with unknown consequences for more trivial matters, then then people get pretty angry if you're solving something that could be life, absolutely life threatening, whether where the trade off of risk is worth it, then it's worth it. Going aboard. Interesting. I don't think we should wait on it.

60:10

You don't think we should wait

60:11

on that? I don't think we should wait. You know, I don't think we should hold off on. I think we should accelerate getting to the crux of the argument from what we can do and what we don't do now. Andi, it seems like someone goes and does in experiments line that everybody has to talk about stuff. We should have a discussion before that. Let's get a bit further ahead in terms of thinking, so that when the technology is getting there, we re hasem like reasonable ounces.

60:34

Is there an open A I, but for biotech,

60:37

I mean it. I guess it depends on how you describe that technology. So that's interesting. One in a Anyone listening to the ship should a message at the bottom of the tweet or wherever this is going to be like for in your company. If you are what that is, and I'm not completely sure, I guess that would be opening. I have put together amazing researchers Thio Research, the heart of some of the hottest problems. Different. So maybe you could review from this analogies say, and I'd like to see see what you were thinking. What was that like, that some of the smartest people in biology to tackle some hardest problems, and that could be a combination of ethical sets on dhe. The technological sets. I don't know.

I guess there's various departments around. Well, it's different from it. Then a ll being in a room like collective people enjoying with potentially unlimited funding and potentially interesting goals. How

61:22

you thinking? I was thinking of a nonprofit focused on researching and asking these questions of ethical concerns for by all biotech.

61:31

I mean, they're all many ethical bodies that have discussions. And I think there's a Chris Boat conference that people get together and talk about the ethical concerns. And he talked about what happened with with that Chinese research. Um, and this stuff is really serious. I think at one point China will execute well on dhe for breaking loss of the internal rules on I don't know where that is right now. They pull back from people so like, No, don't do that. So it's like where you wanna be on the Yes, sir. The they're all they're all. So look, I think there are lots of interesting, interesting ethical questions coming in space. Interesting questions coming up in the in the apology space and Some of this is about like there's also the interesting question of governments or groups of powers of people wanting to have power on other people.

Wanted to have power on monopolies, on their bodies, on their minds, on reproduction, on three ability to create life. And that is around. If you look at a lot of the laws around, these payloads that can create life have always amazing information that can self replicate themselves into a conscious life. That is a very interesting and dangerous. Taylor is a payload of something that can be extremely small. Have all this data incited that can self replicate on, could be conscious on growing army and think and attack you and destroy you, change your ideology or create love being do fantastic things. So this is why this is why this thing this what this what this package of information is, and that's why stem cells interesting people. And I think that's why people latch on to this and try to clamp down on that.

Because what we're dealing with here is that it is is the most powerful thing we probably know because it's a payload that can go on to produce something like a ball. We'll stay on. Army will create like a beatnik movie thing like movement in the sixties. Love it. D'oh gets a different, interesting things. So anything that affects the payload and package around payload and the modification of payload is something where we need to be thinking about what, what that means. Like you know how we're gonna control how people want control. That's well, because it's it comes back

63:45

to power, and then you get us to geopolitical. Really real politik of Essentially Now we have a United States and relative decline in China in a relative rise. Russia. Who knows what on multi polar world that now Some of these tools I just saw Kevin Kelly tweeted about Israel taking out a online cyber taken out in person cyber unit of Hamas in a physical location. So they took the online cyber world, and they actually in the online cyber world, was attacking Israelis and in the Israelis fought back with riel physical missiles against the online. So it's like in the same way that online real world are now mixing for our lives with Google maps and all these things. It's also happen, geopolitically. So take that into the future. You have China, you have Russia all. We're gonna develop these things because they're gonna be then. I mean, that's the main reason for a lot of innovation. Is military military innovation to

64:39

win to win battles? Yeah. WeII have kind of to pass. Like we can take weekend. We could all go into competition. Half like Cold War T point. Stopping to point in a biological area One Aye aye, area. Or we could say, Hey, fuck all these governments. This is by process and open source. Everything is like we're together, like the and just get past this stuff like we're gonna actually, you know, cross connected, like,

do something. We're not gonna go into this. We're not gonna lock it. Lock horns going for the squids network effect of off people fighting each other for no reason. Like we're gonna go into a non zero sum game. We're gonna go into posted some game. I would like to go down that path where you say, hey, like, let's actually connect to the Chinese people and say, You're my friends on. Let's let's think there's being I don't know whether these effects are just interesting things that occur in very launch networks like Twitter and social media systems that become these expressions and groupings off game theory that plays out to be and creates more polarization. And some people might be pushing it that way, and some people pull it back to the middle. Andi, I guess.

What is this? The antidotes duties, potentially thes groupings, the swarm swarm ings that occurring and the notes on this game on dhe, I hope with Mork connections between people. I flight tickets got this real time translation Chinese, and it's great to be using it while going to China on I make You could make jokes for real time. And it's super good. Andi, I think I fly take depending upon office in San Francisco And I just felt much better connection when I could talk when I could talk to someone that didn't speak English. And I didn't speak Chinese and we could talk together for his translation, you know? So yeah, on on that front, like we we still every single person is listening to this class and everybody else has a choice to say No, we're not gonna go in tow A a cold war.

We got you reject that we're gonna like out. We're gonna remove people voting wise. That will do this. We're gonna get people that we're going to keep it stable. Thank you. Bit prospects for everybody on Sometimes it's very difficult to avoid it on. It's natural, you know, It's very natural for, like, fight for your tribe. Um, but I think we do need to move into. We have only owning this ball. The small ball in space on it's a very small playing field, and it's becoming smaller every single day.

Transport gets gets faster and more people around that we have better collectivity everybody. So way to sort that out because this is endgame. There's no more land on this planet right now. We're in a gravity. Well, yeah, people like people, you know, Moscow, hopefully build a backup, plan it for us. What we need is sort this one out first because it's terra form. It's gonna be probably quite hard on you if we can't say it's me. She says, Can he pull off? Terrible. Maybe we should We should try, But

67:30

so Yeah, this is Keith for anybody. listening. If you believe in free will, then trying to build what you just talked about that world because that's that's the world that I want to see is like somewhere we can kind of connect because as these countries are starting to contract, weaken, reach out to the human nature in the citizens of the other country and essentially build this. This Web, which was the original intent of the Internet to, was to be decentralized in a way for people, anyone to anyone to connect with anyone

67:57

else like Yeah, I think it's a big problem is well in policies and laws in general in that what is good for people were not getting. We're not getting it. We're not getting on healthcare. We're not getting our pricing. We're not getting a monopolistic control. We're not getting this stuff. We're not getting on how we spend our tax dollars not getting when we don't want to go to war, want to go to war so people do. We don't get what we want, so it's like, How can we restructure that? And that that might be I don't mean there's being a big change of the individual being lto have a voice on on Twitter and now anymore could have distribution. So if the distribution, I think the distribution curve for people is shifting to flat up. But also write the edges my country, because of this powerful,

If you have 10 million followers, you could do a lot. You can set the agenda. So how that how that curve changes is gonna change the dishes, that distribution of power. And that also is another problem for us to solve going full of, you know, especially the US of how do we get a great enough people kind of getting what they want. And that's what may be the technological lead to a post of some game,

69:3

not only what they want. What they need is Well, yeah, well gone over a little bit. This has been amazing. And I want to continue going, but we'll have you on again. I keep having me be really fun. How can people find out more about what you're doing?

69:17

So then you go to golden dot com on bacon, explore some of the interesting topics on there. Um, and if the building interesting cos they can contact me,

69:27

can we go into a little bit. I want to ask this question. Could go five more minutes. So you've invested 150 companies, Have you? I wanted to ask. Have you invested in any biotech companies recently that you can talk about?

69:41

Yeah, many, uh, once I don't. Recently, I'm gonna avoid just because they don't know if I can talk about them. But I can't talk about some of the some of the classic ones, and I know I can talk about them. It's like I could skip names as well. Just talk about some of the problems spaces that people trying to solve. But I think that that's what that's what you people. That's a juicy cart. So some people are working on d n a reading. So Deanna Reading, currently one of the biggest companies Alumina their bottle. Next. So can we read in a foster?

Could be re read DNA with with your errors. Some people want a print DNA. Some people want right DNA because we need d N A. So they say you're gonna do you You're editing your crystal anything you want to inject some gene. Well, you need to get

70:29

Yeah, just just light bulb went out of my head of what

70:32

that means, but yeah, So you can write this. You could build the strengths and you think about it. It's like putting these these base pairs together. So how do you do that? Efficiently? And that code inside there is You want to deploy your code from from your editor in, And if you look eventually eventually is that editor? In a sense, there is an editor. Eventually thio your modifications and you actually shipping companies and they print you. You get it back to you. So I've got involved in some which will speed up the delivery right now. It takes around two weeks. We want T O night, ideally revealed do on this phone right now.

So I feel okay. I've got a cold. I need to get a vaccine. Have time to go to Walgreens. I want you do get the flu shot right now with my phone. Let me download the latest version of the virus. You can just shoot yourself. Do it yourself. Yes. I didn't have invested. That doesn't exist, Okay? There are some components of the technology that come together like needless injections the date societies for requite transferrable. The printing printing into the is tougher than you got a freak incorporated. There's all these different pieces and there's gonna be there's a camera and explosion off off biotech companies. Elise Interesting biotech companies.

And then people came into the game with, like, one monthly time to monthly type two weeks and get shorter and shorter and shorter. And then the machines, huge and expensive, get the mission's cheep cheep cheaper. Then it's vertical integration. So what else? There's being like this very vertical problems faces a swell that's all these diseases ago solved. So there, there, there there are rare diseases to go solve their genetic diseases to go solve. There are all sorts of problems and there are all sorts of measurement technology. So I got involved, one which allows you to read the microbe. I am specifically the sun problems,

so apparently you can read with anorexia. You can read the microbiome, actually detect anorexia high rates because the the carton, if it's ah, not necessary, super accurate and you can actually predict it. Maybe you could do predictions when the person doesn't even know they have it on and when you can't even see that they're embody a mission After say, Hey, you got seriously she like, we're really solve this. Like you want to talk to this council so that there's there's ways to detect diseases with With microbiome is some crazy stuff happening with you by the feds. Raided raided it. And it wasn't you buying that fact and that that was interesting. That was a double charging issue, I think with the insurance companies and at the S S O, the microbiome is being on interesting area and is a growing area than clean,

Clean meets his uncle world of Andi. They're building. They're making a clean animal. Meeks, I heard down down in the area there was a huge amounts of Fisher actually taking out C just to be minced up for dog food. What? I was like, Yeah, because you're looking at the food in a restaurant thinking, OK, should I not have chili? This go completely plant based vegan. And you also think you don't People don't necessarily think overall, the pet food that where where all the rest of the stuff, it's getting messed up so that they want to try and move Thio more sustainable? Yes,

so that there's all these different problem sets inside biology. And it's kind of like to start off the software. The Web one point Web two point where they all these days, I think it's more wet. One point right now. Andi. Just face. I've seen a lot of biology stuff. I offered them a sampling in different areas to learn till I'm more quickly about the areas.

74:5

So that's part of why you invest is to learn more.

74:7

It's flown more, and I want to push the objective forward. I don't want to learn more about the area. Yes, I know the areas interesting. It's well on getting into it and help the other pieces. I don't. So I tried to do like a platform strategy for the vestment where each each piece could maybe help each other around on dhe solve some problems. Well, raisel like raisel boats and hope. Yeah, I can't wait. I

74:30

can't wait to see if we can build this future that you're talking about.

74:32

A particular we can do it. I think we need to stop giving money and power to people that play negative. Some games on Let's start talking about this and change. It is enough people that want to improve things.

74:45

Yeah, Cool. All right, well, thank you so much for coming. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks for turning into the show. If you liked it, please go ahead and find us on iTunes or Spotify and hit the subscribe button. Published each episode by Monday morning before your commute. So make sure to check in then. And this is a reminder to just own You're crazy because the challenges that this world will be facing over the next 100 years will require us to think way outside the box. As Hunter S. Thompson said, When the going gets weird, The weird turn pro. Thanks. Have a great day.

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