There are lots of great podcasts out there that we don't ever do notes because they're high production value, great stories, right and there it doesn't really kind of fit. You don't need to take no time. That's right. This American life is

obviously a great podcast. It's kind of hard to see. I was gonna take notes on that.

And so, within the state of interesting conversation, the interviews, I think Matt Mets would have a few things that I totally agree on and over time about what kind of great podcasters do. Really,

You can tell when the interview. We use it like a list of questions, and they're like And what about someone's engaged? Because, you know, they're asking the right questions to kind of make sense because they're actually curious to find out what's going on. Welcome to the crazy wisdom Podcasts. Today's guest is Yoni, the founder of Podcast Notes. They take notes on the best podcasts of the week and send their members of a full list of the notes and the best ideas from all those podcasts. I first found out about them a long time ago on as I've started the podcast they once featured one of my podcast with Capital Gupta and S. I really started to get really interested in what they're doing, and I decided to reach out to them for an interview. First, I interviewed Matt Miller, which I published a few months ago. Ah,

and today I interviewed Yoni, who is the founder who started the whole thing. And it's very interesting to get his insights into the world of podcasting. I learned a lot about what makes a great podcaster, Uh, what types of podcasts that podcast notes does. Um, it's really interesting interview. And in this interview I was actually asking Yoni his advice about what I should do with podcasts and particularly, I've started a new newsletter on Sub Stack and what I should write about for my newsletter on stubs tax. So I actually ended up doing that. I started ah sub stack, and I'd be great. If you go and subscribe. You can find it at Stewart Allsopp dot subs stacked dot com, Um,

writing about a few different things, trying to find that niche that I really want to write about. Uh, but what we talked about in this in this interview was actually the relationship between technology and spirituality, which I'm going to start digging deep into and actually already had a few interviews which I published on Sub Stack that our exclusive for a sub stacked, which are really interesting. Um, so I'd recommend you go check it out. Ah, yeah. What what relationship technology has with spirituality? And I could focus on the history which I'm gonna do at some point. But when you only you only really suggested here was that I focus on what's going on now in currently particularly in Blockchain, because there's a lot of interesting mixtures of spirituality, and Bitcoin itself is almost a religion started by an anonymous founder who is like a religious figure to a lot of people who are in a Bitcoin, innit?

Between itself is basically you have to have faith in it in order to invested it. And you think about the long term like it's gonna be a long term payout. Basically, if you believe in it says really interesting. Highly recommend the check out this this interview uni has a lot of wisdom to share. Please let me know what you think. Checkup. Check us out on sub stack. Stuart all stopped up. Sub stacked dot com. You can also just search for crazy wisdom on subject. Uh, yeah. I hope you guys enjoy it. Please let me know what you think. Welcome to the crazy wisdom podcast.

My guest here is Yanni. The founder of Podcast Notes had a co worker of his a mat on a few weeks ago. Really excited to hear all the wisdom that you've, uh, immersed yourself in over the last last few years as you've been taking all the notes on the podcasts and welcome to the show.

Thanks very much. I hope it'll help at this point, but I really appreciate you having

me on, you know, it's ah, it's a great pleasure. So what What was your favorite podcast? That you transcribed your took notes on this week?

Uh, so I gotta say that we'll map and some others that we begin toe bring out on his additional writers, So I have not taken any notes. It's week. Um, so I I luckily get the benefit is almost is more of ah, user in many ways, sometimes I get the benefits from a lot of the have you lifting them mad and others who doing? Um, so I don't have one. For example, that I actually

did know is that the secret? Ah, secret plan for you all along is to build this business. Would that will take notes for you. So you can just kind of, like, read all the best parts from the Bacchus.

Uh, I'd like to say I was that Mark, but it certainly if you know, if we're gonna refer like Tim Paris and a lot that is a scratch your own. It's right. It certainly began as my own Etch Um And I was in the beginning, it was just me. Ah, but definitely benefit over time as we as we grow that I'm able to get for the benefits of that some of the work. But you'll see it's certainly found there is a difference, right when it comes to retention. If you're just reading the note, it's gonna be a different level of sort of connection with the with the content that if you're the one writing and emphasizing the notes, Wallace came to the podcast, right. There's only so many corners You can cut their benefits to sort of, you know,

condensing, You know, the key nuggets, which is really, really valuable. But just like a great book, you can't really get the same value from a great book if you just read the cliff notes. Um, and we'd like to think we do a great job. But, you know, we also hope that, and I find I still listen to a lot of the Bobcats just because we have notes on them. I don't only rely on the note alone

on that brings up a really interesting point, which I've noticed, which is essentially that there's this model that most people have in their heads, that they have a particular learning style that works really well for them and that they believe that that learning style precludes them learning in other ways. So, you know, some people say I'm an auditory listener and I like podcasts, and I don't listen to him. I don't earn well, but turns out, neuroscience finds that's not true. All of us pretty much learned all throughout all the different sensory sensory nodes. So now, since I've learned that I tried to try to get the broadest, uh, brought US array of different sensory learning possibilities. Totally so.

Well, you know, I'm watching YouTube videos, which is both visual and audio and reading. I'm doing a lot of kinesthetic stuff where I'm where I'm learning touch base kind of things. What do you think about that?

Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's those sorts of binary types of decisions. Can't almost never be true. You certainly can learn from reading. And you might certain people may naturally prefer one or another. Maybe because it's easier or they're a little bit action climb. But you're not gonna get any value from a different modalities. Probably never really made anything. Now I feel like I probably come across the same studies, the referencing about you know, that it it's actually kind of all of them, and I think some of them they work for different kinds of information. Person others. So, yeah, I think you're probably taking us one approach to track on a mix and match need like summer.

Some are more past than some are more active. I think that's part of it, too. There's a difference between breeding. It's actually a lot more active, engaging, engaging, wise person listening to a podcast into the probably activate different, different parts of the mind and the brain as well.

So what was the original story behind? Starting Podcast notes.

Sure. So? Okay, I'll give you two versions, right? So, you know, I think in the beginning this is in 2015. There were some? No, actually, I was commuting at the time. So it's getting a lot of time on trains, listening to a lot of podcasts bring a lot of books, which which is great, but it's sort of not Ah, a little bit productive use of the time.

And, ah, graphically productive use of time. Um, so that was some contact with contact inside, Certainly influenced by books from Tim Paris for our work with the sword shifting years prior. That was sort of definitely the back of my mind, setting up like a minimally viable product and kind of testing out new ideas with a very kind of small investment. It see where things go. And so where I was specifically listening to and he was certainly probably like my gateway into the podcasting world is when he turned his podcasts. When? When I really got really interested Just because, you know, I think we take it for granted now that you could just listen to podcasts with Mark entries in or, you know, big shot Venture capitalists are really interesting.

People like the ball, you know, all the time, Frightened pullers. Before that, if you didn't live in Silicon Valley and I was kind of no use people, you had no actor to them, sort of untucked, right? You might get likes to see an article about them or interview, which is nowhere near what a podcast is. So it's really kind of mind blowing change when we begin to start the seed of sorts interview. So that sort of one thing was just really kind of, I think, a pretty clear all something That contest has kind of brought the world, but I was specifically listening to a Joe Rogan podcast with Rhonda Patrick.

If you're familiar, if you really interesting piece, De does a lot of deep dives into into clinical literature and scientific literature. I understand a lot about kind of health and, well, Mr Longevity, So she is sort of an encyclopedia of knowledge, and wherever she goes on, sort of periodic D'Angelo Rogan show. You know, he's He's like, Look, I'm gonna try my best to keep up because she kind of goes real fast. She got a ton of great great ideas and advice and references. Um, and I think probably the second time,

I probably heard you go on like I've ever got the notebooks ready because it's gonna be another runner past trap. So I'm like, Well, I could probably do that, um, for a number of ways, I'm pretty comfortable when it comes to more than kind of literature conversation. So, you know, that was, like, a three hour interview, 34 hour interview. And so I listened to it a few times, took number of pages of notes. Um,

that's all right. Well, let me let me kind of try to that quickly, you know, set up 1/4 past tight and posted the note, and I tweeted it, and I tweeted a joke, and he retweeted it, which was, like, unexpected, unexpected and kind of unbelievable. Um, but that was a very effective test case. I'd say for maybe there's there's something here that's worth kind of sending my time, and that's obviously sort of the exception,

you'll get Retweet from Joe Rogan every day. Um, but it was kind of Ah ah, positive test case that maybe something that could kind of pursuit because a useful right kind of quit scratching my own. It could be, You know, there's got to be some value here, exactly how much and when. I certainly couldn't predict it even where we are now and sort of what I hope for the future. So that's, you know, that sort of kind of came naturally. Like, I'd like to say that I, you know, I could give you the short story.

You know, I had this idea that we need to capture all this amazing, you know, information. That's where disappears into, sort of, you know, it doesn't disappear, but, you know, old podcast gets forgotten very quickly. And all this really interesting wisdom doesn't go anywhere else. Really is getting lost. We need captured and share with the world and how people learn. And that's really what we're trying to do. But I didn't have that. I'm not that smart not to go vision, but it all started. Well, I don't normally our

goal now. I don't think anybody does. I think you know every person who started it started any company they would like a huge amount of thumb pivot. Very, very few of them ever actually know what they're doing in the very beginning. And that actually brings brings to mind the starting this podcast to was was Yeah, I'm just gonna start it and I'll figure, figure it out. I never listen to podcasts s o I just But But I had, you know, had an interesting network. And so and then within three months, I got into a Twitter debate with, um with key through boy, uh and then that lead lead to me interviewing him. And so it was just like this little sign that was like, Okay,

so there is something there and that for anybody was listening. I like, like if you're working on something and nothing ever happens, and it's just like, over and over again, you're spending all your time. This is what I talked about with cases that if you're putting a bunch of inputs into something and nothing like that is happening, probably means you should probably reconsider. What you're doing is usually when you when you're on the thing that that has something. They're these little hints that you're given along the way. Like, for example, like Joe Rogan, kind of retweeting a tweet. That's what I believe that I don't know. What do you think?

Yeah, I think I think there's a certain point where you'd understand if you're really just spinning your wheels, but you need thio be ableto do not fool yourself into thinking that you're grinding for the sake of crime and describe for the sake of grinding is just torture. So I would, you know, you should help me. There should be some degree of positive feedback, depending what you're working on. That positive feedback for some degree of feedback should take Maur less time. That really depends on what you're working on, but it certainly I think the world of the Internet, where if you're kind of generating content and an information line, it's very good for providing some degree of quick feedback. Um, and so if you're not getting any of that, I think that's a fair point. Well,

I say in between that Joe Rogan tweet and a lot of other things there was, you know, the first while of podcast. You know, it was that grind, right, because there's beginning of hopefully what may be going a hockey stick one day. In the beginning, you do find, you know, like any new block resisted. But itwas you're kind of speaking to no. One. And on Twitter, if you don't your followers, you're kind of speaking to No.

One and getting to the 1st 1000 followers can take and definitely did take a lot longer than I did take to get from 1 to 10 on. So I think there's there's a balance, and they're sort of times you to kind of a value where you are. But if you don't get early wins, I wouldn't necessarily give up. It's something that you enjoy doing, and if you do think that there's sort of you have a non delusional view to continue on, so I think I sort of agree. I think Twitter is kind of a cool superpower because it does level the playing field right. You can directly communicate with people like your boy, which is like, How do you know? Unreal in the past, if you send him a cold email, you would have never seen it. Never. What responded to you quite a Twitter kind of changes a lot of interesting,

dynamic, so interesting that I've become really interesting the platform and where it's going over the As I've been doing this podcast because it's that's where I find most of my guests. I'm you know, it's died down a little bit, but But a couple months ago, I was reaching out to people with big followings and and I would say, maybe 70 70% of the time. They're they're replying. They're saying yes. Um, so it's just like this this really interesting kind of new channel to, um, having really interesting conversations, and I'm just really enjoying doing it. I mean, that's how I found you guys to it. It was all for Twitter as well.

Yeah, I think you know, if there's only one social, we don't really have the bandwidth, or at least right now that the interest focus on on more than one kind of social platform Twitter. For us, it's just such a good fit, because if you do curate your feet so to speak and who you're talking to and reading from, you know, I think it's an incredible new source in place to learn it can actually not be talked to get all. As long as you're not falling toxic issues and current events and all that, it gets incredibly useful. And probably on the most sort of exciting benefits of podcasts, notes, is how we can get connected to podcasters like you and others that, you know, I never really would imagine,

but especially sometimes they need to follow you first. But then you condemn them, and then it's like a kind of a very sheltered messaging level until they're much more likely respond if if that's what other settings are. But it's really exciting to get connected toe people will have really mattered. I'd be in any way connected with It was mostly the goal, either, but it's kind of a really cool park

t talk

to kind of really smart people out there.

So how has the how have the things that you've learned, particularly the things that you were taking notes on when you're first starting out? How if they impacted your life, what is the main biggest thing that has impacted your life? What is the biggest thing you've learned? That has had a huge influence besides that Rhonda Patrick interview with With Joe Rubin.

Um, so I think they're probably too right. One is, and we could talk about. I think it influences how we build podcast notes and kind of professionally. And then there's sort of personally, um, and I think there's there's, like a single kind of quote for me that has been the most meaningful. It's easy choices, hard life, hard, like the hard light. Our choice is easy life, easy choices, hard life, right?

Yeah. Um, it's like the Jersey Greg Orrick quote, which is he's like the trainer from the ball into Paris. Um, it's kind of really similar toe Jocko. Sort of discipline equals freedom, but a little bit more into intuitive for me to understand. But ah, and to me, it applies when you, for me so broadly, especially as a parent, right? So for me, a lot of this useful for me in a different in that context of like giving you some grounding of kind of long term wisdom that I can apply toe trying to be a good,

good, good death, right? And so it's so easy to take the easy choice with long term problem, which is, you know, just kids in front of TV or the iPhone. Give him junk food and chicken nuggets, staring at your phone and not paying attention to the kids. Right? There are all these different applications of Make the hard choice now because it'll be good for you both. Not just your life, easy life, but really kind of probably for your kids as well will be more successful, productive and interested in all sorts of good things. And so I've really tried to apply that it had been locked away.

Yeah, that's Ah, that's a great example, particularly kids cause, you know, like a side with my friend who's just letting I was hanging out with last weekend. And he's just letting this kid watch TV all the time, and it's just immediately once he starts crying, just put the phone in front of him, and it's like in 10 years, 15 years, what is gonna happen in terms of attention problems that are they gonna come back to bite them in the ass? Um, it's gonna be pretty

intense. Yeah, it's a pretty terrifying sort of psychological equation when you couldn't. You could manage it so easily with technology right now and then. Look, there's always a place, and I think there's a big difference between certain TV shows or certain after another. Abs right watching you. Don't you know that there are these things on YouTube where kids just unbox toys and talk about them, which is just awful, right? It's like, you know, just like another Dole on boxing iPhone. But like the kid version, like super addictive and they're everywhere, you know that,

versus, Like, we watch old episodes of Bill Nye, the science guy. If he's gonna watch TV, you know, like you're being watched. He uses as much rather be donor. So I think there's trade off and, you know, unless you're a parent, never really understand what it's like to be a parent of someone else's kid. And maybe it's just a bad day. Nor always understand the contacts wherever you can, you know, to me,

I think you always kind of no. One underneath. Deep down, what is that easy choice? I'm trying to take its simple right now, and what is the harder choice? That's probably the right decision. Usually the parent you do know that money given situation, It's just whether not you sort of have the the wherewithal to do it in that moment. But, you know, group having that quote on the back of my head to muse and really, really helpful.

I want to take it back to something you said. Ah, a few minutes ago. About kind of You're based in New York City, right? Orner New York State, right?

Yeah. New

York. Yeah,

and I'm getting a little

bit north you mentioned there you are listening to these podcasts. And this was probably maybe how long ago did you start? Podcast notes

in 2015 has been quite a while.

Yes, 04 years ago and so probably happened a little bit before then. But this essentially this this explosion of interest within start startups and tech. And you're in New York and you're listening to these podcasts of people. You mentioned a really good point, which is that essentially like all of a sudden, these people who used to be only you only had access to them if you were in San Francisco. And not only that, he only had access to them if you're into San Francisco, but you only had access to them if you were connected to the right people to I invite you to the fireside chats because that's the main place that most of these people were talking about before you get a private event with 50 people. And then there's three or four people talking at the event, and that was the main way that mostly stalked. And now it's like spread into this podcast kind of thing. And I want I want to get your take on it. What is your take on on Silicon Valley? San Francisco? What do you think goes on here?

Um, look, I think I think it's an amazing place and it's sort of it's a hub for what it is and has been for decades now. And it's got a full ecosystem of kind of all the parts you need, and that's really hard to recreate. I know New York is kind of trying to do that. You know, I think the equivalent would be biotech for Boston. Um, is there probably a lot of Kool Aid tricking and sort of, you know, kind of amazing optimism. Yeah, but like the world needs at least at least Ah, hub of that place, right? There doesn't need to be realistic as long as that the whole world is maybe sometimes visionary or unrealistic.

How we want to find out if Silicon Valley is At least there's a you know, a concentration of people that are, I think over. I think I think it is. In some ways it will always be Silicon Valley. But I think it's also becoming distributed that certain things are no longer needing to be Silicon Valley, plus a little craziness about rent and homelessness. And all these things are driving people toe find solutions to be more and more than a voting. So I hope this entire Valley will keep being what it is. But I think it's sort of a meaningful thing for the world, but I think it's gonna struggle toe, not rest on its laurels and its name brand, um, and implant itself in 20 years, sort of in a different place. I open it. It isn't that way. I think New York will struggle to ever really be gave the same because it's just so much of a different kind of culture in the

city, and that's what I wanted to get to. Is that distributed nature, which is that it doesn't seem like it's gonna be I mean, so so kind of. You always have this weight to it, but, you know, just the fact that you're doing what you're doing. Um, and then it's like a feedback mechanism where it's like not only are you doing what you're doing, but then a whole bunch of people both in Silicon Valley and outside of Silicon Valley, are then taking your notes and then learning about all these different podcasts. And it's like this. It's like a worldwide hive brain that's being created. Um, but it's through this content that all kind of started here.

I'm just kind of spitballing. I don't know where I'm going with this. Uh um, yeah, it's really

interesting. Yeah, I think you know, you get the irony would be, but probably successor. James Silicon Valley is developing. The technology will make it obsolete. E ticket. All of youse technologies originally gonna gas her from from Apple and you're having all these really smart bench tablets shared their best in secret to the world and how they make decision making in all this, but the whole world, because they can afford to. And that's probably a little bit of an ego based competition to who could be like the smartest, most interesting podcaster, depending on who you're talking about, right? And so we all benefit from that. So awesome.

I want people to keep competing, to make me a smart as they can like great freak. It's free school a lot more interesting and engaging that school. Um, one thing I do, what I wanted to bring up you mentioned mad about Well, this only works as long as you speak English. I think that was a really interesting point and something I've actually been thinking about senses. You know, I think it's actually a lot harder for you to come up with a way to turn what you and what you do with my kind of auditory contacts in two different languages. But it's actually a lot easier analogies for me to do what podcast notes does in other languages,

right?

That's really cool. We can pretty. There's a lot of different places that we could you know, a lot of tools that can not 100% Perfect translation. Pretty good machine learning, German translation. And so that is actually something I thought about. I'm beginning to look into how we might be able to do that. Um, and sort of brought in the distribution of our content. At least if you can understand the whole podcast.

Totally. I think that's a great idea, Andi. I think it would be a combination of machine learning with with somebody editing it, whose Native speaker as well. Um, but

that would certainly be ideal.

Yeah, that's really cool. And and the thing I wonder about is how much the culture is. I think in Brazil the culture is right for it because I've been seeing a lot of YouTube videos of that's of the same type of content, like self help type of content that's now in Portuguese. But I wonder about about other countries and then somebody else. I was talking to Kunal the crazy poem, a polymath on Twitter, where you guys have did note some with him. He talked about how it court in India that they're they're starting to have other episodes or they're starting to translate the English type of self help into other local languages inside of India as well.

Yeah, I think I don't know much about Brazil. I think. Certainly there we have some traction. India, Marcel, Just because I think developed a very large population of English, So I would imagine that true India. I'm far from Axiron, but yeah, not just one language. They're obviously so you'd have to get pretty sophisticated to do it right. Similar probably for China, at least for a Brazilian came for Brazilian, Portuguese, and you're done primarily. So yeah,

I think that I think that's interesting. And yeah, that's part of questions like, Well, if we want to do this where we'll be starting what languages and how would we sort of make people aware of our are what we're doing in the language is right, because it's the then also just gonna find you magically so that it's, um it'll bring me back to the quote that I think that guy's me most. You're early question on the business side is ultimately it's just the same thing of saying focus. But I think it's more interesting, which is, um, and I forget who said this, but you can have anything you want, but not everything you want, right? And so we can do lots of things.

But we can't do all of them because we've resource constrained somebody's only sunshine today. There's a good one for for everyday life, too. But that's a really tell full quote also of not getting this racket on DSO. I'd like to do that, but I can't drop everything that I'm doing. What the core of what we're doing is I have a list of 30 different things that I want to do, and it's what kind of taking them all too quickly that can and without moving focus and depends on the level time and capital investment to pursue any of

those. How do you know which ones to pursue?

But you got to go with your gut. You don't over analyse things. It's gonna take more time to analyze the idea that detested better. Do quick, quick test than toe. You worry too much about it, mom. So if it if it's pretty, if it's gonna cost 20 bucks now we're toe test out a thing or tweet out an idea. You know, you could just put on we've done before. I will just, you know, tweet out pole. What are users? Think about something. There's a lot of engagement interest in whatever that I might be a good feedback,

right. So, you know, definitely getting minimal. Quick feedback is way better than over engineering a solution or a product of whatever might be. And then just like, you know, being lean dark about, frankly versus trying toe. I have, ah, once a year long sort of development timeline, just like any sort of product and regretting it cause he didn't actually ask your users. First

on, I'd like I'd like to go into the business if you feel comfortable talking about it. Like, what is what? What are you? Is your main focus right now. You kind of touched on a little bit, but what is your main focus with put podcast notes and where do you want to take it?

Sure, like I think the focus is on doing what we've done because that's what people appreciate for Libby. It's what we do, right? So it's the core. Focus is writing really great quality notes on the best podcast that we confined and doing as much of those that began doing more overtime, right? So we're doing probably 45 extra number podcast every week. Then we did like I did last year. Um, and I'd like to begin, continue to begin to grow that, but never with, you know, you could You could do this badly at scale. Um, and it would be that.

And it's not. It's It's the balance of curation and quality and content quantity. And so we will grow. But we could be patient or boots drafted. We don't on someone else's timeline, and that gives us the benefit of patients. So the focus of a company is Brian Great notes that, you know, help this girl our audience and are valuable to people. Then there, you know things. On top of that, we certainly are increasing to try toe. You know, I had a like a layer of kind of value and thinking beyond just the note of one podcast. But that's frankly for our members,

only writes for their there's member only content that were increasingly investing in time and sort of thought lies to make things more interesting. So rather than just saying, Well, this is one podcast. Okay, let's look across 20 podcasts, all which talked about meditation more a certain kind of diet or work. You know what has to see the work or start up venture capital and right? Sort of a meta analysis across all of those for the past year. You know, what did we learn about it really matter, right? So it kind of bubbling up to another level. You know, I think that that's kind of a key value driver for us. We're trying to increase engagement and kind of growing our kind of more direct community and membership of the psycho that really drives help us do more.

So the more members we can bring in, the more we can afford to do more quantity for aboard Alyssa's. Well, Mom said Kind of a cute driver and focus for us as well. And I, like the last 10% is experimental. My ideas Neto that are outside of the main focus.

That's so interesting. Um, have you ever thought of like me as a podcaster? I have I. I was doing my own notes for a long time. I was going to do it, do it transcription, but it's so much work. Have you guys thought about offering your services, or is that a distraction? The governor said. We have.

So we have and we've actually have done it a couple of times. His experiment, I think even if we did, we would do on a very again configuration matters. So it would. You know this because you're paying us, says me, willing to take notes on you. Um and we'll ask. The first question is, does it for free or we paid because we can't necessarily afford to just do it reviews for everyone. It would be asking. So then it gets complicated. That's sort of what that model is, what value we providing. And I think as we grow, we provide more and more value because we're butting not just the notes,

but it's also a little bit of a especially if you're smaller gaps and it'll be grow. We provide you with a new, basically an audience, right, because we have our mail. You know, we have our list. Serv, we have Twitter. Anyway, we have kind of these other avenues so we can add more value. And so I think over time we may throw to do that. More has been been a huge focus to

bait. Yeah, that makes more sense once you have more leverage than you can do it. Um uh uh. And then So what? What makes the best podcast? In your opinion,

I think it depends what you're talking about. And look, I love you know, there are lots of great podcasts out there that we don't ever do notes because they're high production value. Great stories, Right? And there it doesn't really kind of shit. You don't need to take no time. That's right. This American life is obviously a great podcast, but it's kind of hard to see. I was gonna take notes on that on. So within the safe of interesting conversations, the interviews, I think Matt Net Mets would have a few things that I totally agree on and over time about what kind of great podcasters do. Really? You can tell when the interview visas got like,

a list of questions, and they're like And what about those first one? Phone's engaged because, you know, they're asking the right question to kind of make sense because they're actually curious to find out what's going on. So, curiosity, if you know, if you're a podcast. Those interviewing interesting people and you're not really curious. You're probably in the wrong business, um, and hope you're finding people you're interested in talking to. Certainly. I think that's one thing. I mean,

Joe Rogan is a unique podcaster, I think, because he's able to be engaging but very open minded about almost anything. He's willing to talk to people young. Sure, he disagrees with her. Probably thinks we're crazy sometimes, and he's willing to learn about anything, even though he knew he was like, Look, I don't know anything about this, but it's all right. Teach me about it. It was someone that sort of basic Lerner unto themselves. You should want to learn if you're trying to look, bring on people that have important and interesting things to say.

Um, I appreciate you know something really telling you, D'oh, that it's easy for podcasters to fall into the realm of like only interviewing people for books because those people that are often available for podcasts. Um, but then you just kind of become kind of part of the promotional, like a new segment of like what people do to promote books. I'm not sure how Valley like I feel like that isn't the most useful or interesting podcast, right? Like if you like. Oh, you just wrote a book in Dallas and you're doing a podcast like It's fine. That'll help you sell some books. Um, and for people don't read the book. They could listen to the podcast to read our notes in the top half,

and they might figure out they want to be the book or don't read a book. So it's a very useful thing, but it's not necessarily the best podcast, because basically people just tryingto pull out their favorite pieces of their own book. Not this sort of thinking more broadly than that specific

interest.

Er, yeah, how much I love those forces. I kind of just interesting. People are good topic small

ball thing. Yeah, and this is This is something kind of ties into a huge challenge I've had over the past. I mean, my whole life, But But it is becoming quite a taxi and emotional at this moment because I have gotten a lot of advice. I just started a newsletter with Sub Sub Stack and I talked with them and they said If you want to start building your newsletter, you really want to focus what you're writing on a few core areas that you talk about. But I threw out my whole life. I've always had a difficult difficulty foot focusing. So it's very hard for me to like, really picks a structure, stick to that structure and then do it. I'd like to explore all of my interests, but there there is nothing that connects all of these interests, like neuroscience, that with I mean with yoga there is,

But in business, I guess they're kind of connected. But I'm trying. I'm having difficulty troubling trouble finding this focused and really narrowing it down. How much do you think that's important? All the podcast, Steve, listen to have you listen to podcasts that are just totally kind of like off the wall. One on one interviews about this? The next interview's about that,

So I have a few thoughts on that. My first of the question. I'm just kind of curious, actually, because I think that someone else terms from Sub Stack was doing an interview. I think in the wife see podcast last week or something. I'm just curious what's your What's your experience with them? Um, we started before That was kind of around. I've really just been courted doing it along the way with, like, Milkha.

Yes.

They think there's anything unique that they are bringing to the table there.

For me, it is the simplicity, because for male chimp I've started. I started it and I built a list, but I wasn't doing it regularly, so I can't tell you about regularly. But I did it enough to know that the male chimp is like a You probably know the system by now. So you might have gotten gotten past this, but I felt it overly complicated and complex for me, too. I just want to write and publish it. And Sub Stack was really good for that. And they're really building the future for free for free subscribers and then paid subscribers and then building all the mechanisms to get more people to sign up to the paid paid part. And they're also actually doing podcasting. So they built podcast features as well. So I'm probably not gonna move my whole podcast over to them yet, but I can start doing publishing a few episodes.

Maybe even premium content once I start charging for it. S o. I see them is basically a competitive patriotism, but very, very focused on this email newsletter, Podcasts kind of niche thing. So I I I I am really enjoying. It's really simple, really easy flows. Basically. So I really like it.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. It sounds like another Another wannabe member full. They're a little bit more WordPress focused. I found them interesting, but they're not really built for the newsletter component of it. Okay, um, back to your question. So they're right. Right? That's kind of the proven thing, right? You wanna pick a niche? You wanna kind of build your 1000 true fans,

Captain Kelly style. And then, you know, you kind of go from there. Maybe what you need, right? That's generally true, right? That works. Um, you have something going for you because degree you I don't know exactly, But you already have an audience for this podcast. Right? And wrong. You bounce around to some degree, but I don't think you're I don't think

that's hurting you on.

And then, you know, you think about your interest would probably totally disagree with this right? He's like, Look, the more specific my content is is a huge and accused of benefit already has massive following right. And so within his millions of followers, there are niches, and so these his perspective is, once you leave, maybe once your scale, then you can You can bounce around all you want because he when he says he's like, I get the most engagement when I do something about, like weight lifting and body gay like weight gain or something, right like very natural people to do, like heavy weight lifting, more neutral fix.

But he gets the most engagement when he ticked when he hits one of those inches, but he bounces between them like crazy rather than trying to be like, If I try to write my whole audience, it just comes thought, Latin generic. So I agree with the subject. Looks like you need a niche. I think you could have multiple ones. The question for you is, can you be somewhat, maybe kind of make a plan for which niches you want to need? Snitch. I could never really know, but, you know, maybe you try to come up with what is your order And where do you want to start?

Because you are the most knowledgeable you could add The most valuable most value could be the most interesting writer you could be in that. And then you can build a following there and then either created separate newsletter or expander newsletter for and try to grow a 2nd 1 in a different topic. You know, people often are out of both of them, and then you have the third and the fourth. So I think you don't have to focus long term, but you do need to focus short term.

And that's I think, I think, what I want to dio. I've been having to kind of themes go in my mind, and I think I'm gonna go with the first thing, which is essentially tracing how much spirituality has influenced technology and the evolution of technology here in Silicon Valley. And then also, how what's it doing currently and what it will do in the future? I think now,

how broadly how badly do you interpret spirituality?

Uh, pretty broadly. It's like it's It's I mean, it's all of life, but I guess I guess what I'm getting at is this New Age thought because in the 19 sixties 19 seventies in San Francisco, there was this bloom blooming of New Age stop that was partly, um, partly influenced by the publishing industry. In the 1962 nights and seventies, they put a bunch of money into these kind of new age thought Newedge books. Plus, it also coincided with the ah bunch of people coming from India coming from China and all teaching in Tibet and teaching their stuff specifically coming to San Francisco along along with some other urban areas, but then very closely after that, you also get the technology rise. And I I believe they're very connected, very interrelated. A lot of people were in both of these both of these rounds,

including Stewart, Stewart Brand and Kevin Kelly, I think, and Steve Jobs, of course, do as well. Um, so that's got

it, and I see one surprising. I think I think they bought a sense. The one piece I add that you probably are thinking about, and it comes up a lot, a lot of history and how to change your mind. The Michael Palin book about surviving another sort of um, blue surgeons. Among the long term. But in there, he kind of make a little least one chapter. Kind of makes the case that, you know, Phillip, I've been an LSD. Could clear to roll a lot. Also in that time period,

Um, and I think Stewart brand would certainly be one of them. Their stories physically about him and sort of the picture of the whole earth and on all that, the whole of catalogs. Um, so I would agree with you, but if I would probably try to think about how that all connect with your other points

as well because it sounds

like that was kind of a an insolent little component. And certainly Steve Jobs did too.

Yes, yes. Yeah, definitely. Second, Alex would be would be high up there, and I have no problem talking about them, huh? On dhe. Then there was getting it, and then the current and the current. And then the future is the Blockchain. This probably might wear a start. Was Blockchain and technology. If you go to some of the parties here in San Francisco where I mean, if you go to Puerto Rico where they're all hanging out. Um,

it is They all have sound healings there. They all have, like, um, body workers, like most of parties. Like, have these kind of like, um, it's like psychological mixed with New Age massage kind of things, all at the parties themselves. So and a lot of people look at that point as a religion as well. So it's really, I think it be interesting toe go past for

that adventure thing. I would. I mean, just on on the face of it, I think you'll get more traction if you're frankly crypto is a lot, you know, like one of history there certain people, they're instant history. And you might find an extra people really want to learn about that. But one is new and evolving and frankly, got like this. You know the factor. And much is like Bitcoin sort of, I think, right around the bottom of the sort of trough of despair, um, and crypto in general,

after, like a huge kind of craziness that happened a year or two ago, it's still obviously, like a big topic and exciting to lots and lots of people love. You can carve out it, you know, your own flavor of that world, which is different than just people are like pumping a coiner, Bitcoins their religion and trying to think more broadly about it. I think that could be Ah, pretty attractive kind of

subject. I think you're absolutely right. Yeah. There. This. All right, I'm gonna figure it out. Right? Yeah.

Looking forward to it.

So, um, what's your do do Do you meditate? Do you do have a spiritual practice?

I cannot say I I I do. I've done certainly head based, kind of on and off in the past, but I haven't been able to really stick to it. Um, it's how do you like I got a tweet about this little while ago. I think that that is probably the the right thing to do, and it can get people to a certain place. That is a lot that you can also get to with with psychedelics. But second out there a little bit towards, like a key code on. And meditation is sort of like the really hard, like, hard choices, easy life version of getting there, which I think is probably the right way to do it. But it takes time and a lot of focus, and I haven't been able to get their meeting with. My kids are a lot older, Um, but it's it's hard to talk about the

time, and I know that doesn't excuse

what you say. You don't have time, then you really Then you need you need 45 minutes of it. I get it. But

well, yet you listen to the Capital Gupta stuff, right?

That is true. I'm looking to some of it. Matt. Matt is this is big fan. I have read optimum on. Um, but it Matt introduced me. Actually, just two could feel I have not. I was not actually aware of him it before that, but yeah, he's a really interesting guy. And yeah, I think he only makes you feel a little bit better than like, just because the girls are doing it right, that's not a reason to do it. And it's it's not. I'm not gonna try summarise kind of all that, he says, because I'll just get it

wrong. But everybody does. I

think they're different paths to get into the top of the mountain, so to speak, right? I think people differently is doing

it well in what made me bring that up was would be. Basically, you're already doing it with kids like Having Kids is a is a practice of life and spirituality. So it's like like the five minutes figuring out how to deal with your kids is like way, way more useful than than than 20 minutes of meditation, although they're both oh, they help each other. But E

got it. Well, that certainly makes my ego feel

better. So I appreciate that, Um,

and yet I think if you take the I think this was from his book, you know, or someone else. But we have a lot. We should stop trying to teach kids and learn from them because they're obviously far more content with life. And then we are probably as adults and seeing how they can enjoy splashing in puddles on all these simple things that were started too old and jaded to appreciate even just watching them and appreciating what they're doing, I think is a really positive behavior toe toe work on numb. So I try my best. Not that, um, I do those other things that your future is kind of things that I've gotten that I find useful, um, over the years, right? So I pretty much of it, You know, I don't think I follow it closely,

but I tried to least in the beginning is kind of slow carb diet, which, like in Tim Paris's books, like before our body, Um, I think that it helps me have a general focus of things to focus on into a void. Um, and just like that was kind of which is same thing is going like a little bit paleo a little bit Low cards are all kind of a little bit together. Um, my wife even cuter taquito diet for a while. And I wish it was really great for her on dhe. She made it really hard to maintain, obviously, but, you know, we should probably try to get in the future,

too. But I think you got a lot of benefits from it. Even just sort of like overall contents perspective. Ah, Other things. I never really ate breakfast kind of my whole life. I just could never really have the time. I think I just get distracted. Very loved during, like, we'll have to wait a lunch but I never knew, but I always, like, felt weird about that. So I had this sort of the the understanding. But now that I've certainly worked so money podcast with Rhonda, Patrick and and many Fonda and all the others like okay, actually, that's just intermittent fasting, and that's an awful

thing for me to do.

And maybe that's why I never got obese in the first place and a lot easier to stay healthy than it is to get fat and then get healthy. And so, actually, that was my sort of accidental secret to getting through college and working long hours and also and having kids and and not kind of getting wait along the way, at least part of part. Please. I tend to intern in passing team, basically dinner and 11 30 the next day. So it kind of gets me a pretty decent, intermittent fasting. So I think that that was kind of a big one for me. Um, I have done women up breathing a lot. E think it's actually a lot of fun, but the trick is really done. The I tried to the cold shower thing that hasn't taken, but what what I think people probably don't get to it.

If you don't just do it once, you have to do it like four or five rounds in a row before it gets really, really intense. Um, it's almost like you get a high from it. It's really, really for me, kind of pretty exciting. It's somewhat forced meditation because if you're counting arrested, you're focusing on your breathing that long, and I'm taking four by round will take you 2030 minutes, and so it gets pretty intense. I'm ableto by the you know, the fourth or fifth round. I could hold my breath like two or three minutes, which is nowhere near how much I can normally.

But you basically you're hyper oxygenating your blood from I can tell you that your body too many threes for longer. Which is why you never, ever do it by water disclaimer disclaimer. But I think that one's kind of really pretty cool. I think you feel interesting kind of crazy guy.

What is the breathing pattern for women off? It's like a huge and inhale right,

so you you inhale deeply if you can, and then you act tail like half the owner tried, like, push it all out, Um, and relatively quickly and like in the nose, out the mouth and you do it for, like

40

three times.

Then you exhale.

Hold your breath. I think you're supposed to hold it for, like, 30 seconds, actually, just try to hold as long as I can. Then you take a giant inhale, and then you try to hold it again. And you know, as long as you can and then, you know, take a little rest and do it again by the fourth or fifth time, when you take that to you, exhale, you hold your breath and then you take a big inhale at the last step. That's where it gets really super intense on the like, 3rd 4th or fifth round.

But he hasn't. He's a cool apple kind of walk you through it initial sort of like Reddit threads about it to people probably do their own things, but it's actually pretty interesting thing to do. I think it's, you know, I feel like you when I saw videos of monks on the top of Mount Everest kind of not freezing in the winter like, you know, you want it to snow Storm? You kind of remember that video? Probably. And 20 years ago, my guess is they're doing something like that's right because that's what he does. Feel cold with cold showers and all of this. And he said it would make it kind of more no automatic. I think they're basically doing that

kind of thing. I know for a fact there it's called a tomb. No, it's called a breath of fire. I once thought it's really crazy video of what? I imagine the steps before they what they call levitation, where this guy's practicing to him. No, and it actually in creating it. It includes visualizations as well, and there's a whole range of breathing practices that I was getting really heavy into about seven years ago. It's called pronto Yama, and one of them is slightly similar to that. But there are like I ve said, probably about 1000 1000 different techniques. Uh, may be listening,

but but like it's it's like crazy. And each time I thought I would like found them all, there would be another one, because I'll just go in there Quick. Summary quick as you can. You can hold off one nostril, breathe through one nostril, closed off the other one, and then you can do all sorts of variations on that theme. You know, exhaling out of one inhaling out of the other one. You can exhale for twice the amount of the inhale. You can exhale for four times the amount of Ben Hill. You can, uh, do like saxophone breathing where you're kind of circular breathing where you're where Which people?

Saxophone people. D'oh! Um, you can go into a pool of water and you can inhale as much as you can and then only exhale just a tiny bit and then inhale again, and that'll keep you a floating in the water. So there's like this there, So many, um, what

do you think

s Oh, not only that, women off, But then you get you talk to somebody like appeal, and he's like, he just says, like, all of that is bullshit. And you should always practice. That's that's not gonna get you anywhere that you just gotta like, um uh, just got arrive here right now in this moment, like what's going on right now? Um, so it's It's really. It's like an endless rabbit hole, so

Yeah. No, I think that's interesting. I've probably Yeah. I don't think these air paths to enlightenment. I think they're interesting. And in search of others, I think I have thought about the breathing when you just said about flowing water. But it makes a ton of sense, right? Because you can basically inflate your body. You're gonna be easier to float. Just like a balloon makes a ton of sense the next time. Like I have needle like Dave of water over like that seems a good way to not

die s thank you for that saving people for since today. But, uh, on

the national black out,

that one actually leads to quite a bit of like, a blissful feeling, which is really cool.

Yeah, I do. Some others that I've heard from, like, um, on others. They're just more like relaxation kind of breathing techniques when I'm having trouble falling asleep. Um, they're more like, you know, like, 78 or what? I really got a different numbers for different 2nd 2nd you do or box to come out on a limb, but I have done. But you have to make sense because when basically said, Look, I went all around the world,

that's all the guru's means, Like it's all bullshit. I just do this breathing thing. It's awesome. And I can go like, you know,

going ice water.

So he learned these things right from, you know, who came up doing tweak of it from learning from those guys that that makes sense.

If you ever want to go for a mental head trip, you can read about this woman named Madame Lebowski. I'll set it up really quick, which in the 18 fifties there is this religion called Spiritualism. That's where we get the idea of a medium where somebody can talk to spirits at all. Kind of, I mean spirits. People have been believing in spirits for a really long time, but it became organized around a religion called in the 18 fifties, and then Madam Lebowski was this Russian eccentric woman who first went to Europe and then came to America and got in with the spiritualist people. And then she created her own religion based off of it called theosophy, and then Theosophy was kind of popular in America, but really, really became popular in India and actually is a huge reason for why what they called modern postural yoga, which is what they practice in yoga studios, happened in India. Uh,

because of the philosophical things that theosophy brought it. And she said that she received most of her most of her wisdom in dreams. She would go actually teleport to the Himalayas and then download this information from the from the yogis practicing and most of it was fabricated and most of her life I'm irritated on. But she created this religion, which then became really popular in India. And if you've ever heard of judo, Krishnamurthy who's Camille Group that talks about sometimes, um, Nivel Robbie contacts a lot about you do judo. Krishnamurthy Krishnamurti was actually who might have Madame Blots Blue Box. He said, This is gonna be our messiah. Who's going to save the world? Um, and then Geo Krishnamurthy is like he's raised as the Messiah for this religion called Theosophy. And then,

at 18 years old, when he's about to take the mantle of this religion, he gets up in front of all the followers like 10,000 people, and he's like, This is all bullshit. Can't find truth through a group like you guys are all Just find your truth to yourself. This is all bullshit. I'm dissolving this whole organization. Um, it is like it's such an interesting history. But

if that guy wow, impressive.

Yeah, I would read his stuff. It's that is that that it's it's powerful stuff.

Well, yeah,

very cool. We got what s. So what is the kind of biggest, most influential piece of content that is changed your life for what's on your on your mind for the past couple weeks or so?

I don't know if I have anything else that that sort of that big and impressive from down to me, it's really comes back to kind of hard choices, easy life, and focusing on kind of you can you can have anything, right? I see tons of opportunity personally and professionally, but I can't have everything. Um, and I only have so much time today and so much kind of got space, and to be those two are really broadly applicable. Um, and in that yeah, that to me. I got come back to those for a lot of things.

Cool. So how can people find you? How can people find podcast nuts?

Sure. So definitely falls on podcast at podcast notes on Twitter. That's really weird. Every most active, uh, podcast notes. That orb is the website. You know, join the subscriber. Get our kind of every Monday morning, you'll get the best stuff from the best podcast in the past week. If you can definitely supported us. Is a member of the house sort of really great clout that you can't get if you're if you're not a member and telling that that we do that probably not as well known. If you go into iTunes or anything else, they search for a podcast. Those playlists. You can actually get a playlist of all the notes,

all the podcasts we take no time. Some are key. Takeaways will be right into the right, built right into the metadata. And though if we dig notes on someone, you know, like that podcast wasn't the playlist. You kind of like a curator playlist. Um, which you know, sometimes you don't listen to subscribe to every Joe Rogan podcast, right? But we'll pick out the ones we think are most interesting. Take notes on those and they'll be in our place. So it kind of, Ah, cool thing that we built on the wing to promote a little bit more guests. I think it's actually useful. Can I use it myself?

That circle you guys are doing awesome stuff.

Thank you. Thanks for thanks for having me on

course anytime. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please find us on iTunes and subscribe. You confined us by searching for crazy wisdom. You can also find us on Spotify or stitcher any of those. It's called crazy wisdom. As I mentioned in the intro, I'm also doing a newsletter where I'm going to be talking about my thoughts about the different interviews that I have. I do like four or five interviews a week on Get published them about 2 to 3 weeks after I, um after I do the interviews, and I usually published every Monday in every Friday morning, so before your commute so you can check back in, then for a new episode and probably gonna start doing little more episodes throughout the time of my own thoughts about what's going on. Uh, really hope you enjoy it and let me know what you think. If you do like it, please find us on iTunes and give us ah rating. Thanks,