this episode of Hustler is brought to you by designing the best place to find creative talent. He'd help with a project posted on designing and received three proposals from the best designers, illustrators and animators. Hundreds of companies and startups have been connected with the perfect creative For their project. Go to designing dot com slash hustle and start your project today. Welcome back to the hustle today. I'm here with Matt Fox CEO and executive creative director at Basic. What's that, Matt?

What's up, man?

Pretty good. It's been a while since we've tried. We've been trying to get this podcast set up for a while. We're both busy guys. So I appreciate you making the timeto stop by for a chat.

I

It's alright, people be people. Be busy running a business.

Always cover this.

Yes. Yeah, that's true. All right. So mad. And I met at Mon Tues,

right? Yeah. Trying

to guess a minute. Mon

Tues er last year.

Yeah. Ah, really awesome to have that opportunity. Oh, to sit with you and be inclined by the fire and talk talk business. I, uh I live for that stuff, you know, I just can't get enough of, ah, chats with other agency owners, which I'm really excited to talk to today because it's been a while since we've had another agency owner on the show.

Yeah, no, it's good. We had a good talk then. I think all of us come from very different angles to this. It was fun to kind of share some knowledge about, however, about how all of our studios Iran and no, I'm down to talk about what? Everyone out there.

Well, I can't think of many people that don't know who basic is, but let's just pretend that I don't uh um so tell us a bit about basic.

Yeah, I guess I'll just give you the elevator speech. Eso basic is, ah, brand strategy, and it'll design agency that almost brand's position themselves to the matter of culture. We're a team based out in San Diego. We worked with brands like Apple Mix and Watches, beats by Dre. A lot of a big kind of consumer facing West all brands and really, we're just about doing good work with good people are having a good time doing it. Really? Just this meal,

Yeah. I mean, I know that they only go so far. But the work that you guys do is award winning. You know, it gets a lot of, you know, a lot of credit. A lot of you know, everyone loves that. Um, you guys do amazing work. Did you Ah, ever think that you would have a company? Ah, design agency, much less one that would work for brands like up Apple and Nixon,

you know? Yeah, honestly, um, it was kind of I've always wanted to do something big. And I've had this idea that, you know, I've never settling on. Years ago, I was doing a lot of freelance work in different visions. And how about you consider him to be a crazy story all itself, But really, I just wanted to do good work, but I knew that I would get us to where we need to be, But I don't need his good work isn't pretty work. I mean, you know,

we've been solving climate business issues, arriving themselves, partners. I mean, all the stereotypical stuff you hear people say but and even spilled into our value system and everyone he hires a guy just there, and I really since the start wanted to build a company where people get involved with us, have a stake in it, saying it and help guide division. And I think that's how Dr.

Okay, so let's talk a little bit that about how do you How do you How do you? Well, first, what does it take for someone to get a job at basic?

Uh, it's a person. People that are you know, you gotta have a passion behind what you do. Um, I don't really care if you go to school, even talents. One thing I think it's more understanding of taste is something that we really take a lot of pride in, no matter what rules whether your producer, developer, designer strategist really is about taste and having a vision for what connects with people, that's the main thing. Look for on doesn't need any social. Honestly, just having an exquisite understanding of you know what's happening now. The trains that are the only places how to influence people, how to connect with people and then just a passion for creating experience that maybe that

awesome. So, um, what did you do before? Basic? I mean, how did how did you get started in the in this business says in this design business.

Long letters in her short version.

Yeah, whatever version you want,

toe. Okay, Well, I had pretty much every job under the sun, but growing up as an athlete was recruited for basketball, I've got trouble. My senior year, I ended up losing some opportunities there. So I grew up in the Bay area, actually. Call it that people from Hubble County, which is about six hours north of the border, Right order. Andi was a senior in high school and just decided when you know what? The school was took long opportunity for me, So I'm gonna let them make money off myself. So I moved to Southern California tonight and remember myself in high school,

finished high school. But the reason I picked Marietta was because they had a really good cycling community. So as a kid, I wrote a lot of the Mets, and after basketball kind of got taken from me, I decided to pursue that passion. Next thing I knew, I was a professional being. Exactly, and it was being in a lot of ads. Highlighted is kind of Ah huh brand about myself. I guess you and I fell in love with the idea of what that went into that, and so I just started doing it on my own. You know, I also at that time that's when Digital was really started, kind of move forward.

So I saw a lot of opportunity there, but not this in the design side of things, but a strategy aspect of it. Efforts fully just kind of rolled up the sleeves and dedicate my life into it. I was bartending was right to be a back so late nights, a lot of hustle, you know, just basically not sleeping. That kind of changed my passion and started building this a pretty successful freelance business which turned into me, needed more help, which turned into a vision for a building. Names me. You just admitted it. So that's kind of how we got where we're out. It's just by doing right by the people that it I gotta write about me in the past, I guess.

Wow, that's that's That's interesting, especially the the the sports part of it. I don't you have a chance to meet? Uh, did you have a chance to meet injured from headway?

No, actually, Internet talked a couple times? Uh, yeah, a little bit. So, uh, I think he's a big Packers fan. Talk about law,

but yeah, I think he played pro football. Or maybe minor league football for like And there's someone else I can't think of right now that also I like like, almost went. They had a pro sport. That's that's pretty adjusting. I think there's a lot of people actually in the design business that start that. Got that where it was highly active, you know, a

lot of skateboarders. Yeah, well, what's interesting is he kind of developed a network, you know, because basically, because I sponsored a lot of small companies who would sponsor me stuff, and they have, really, But it should be identities or whatever the case may be, and I just felt it better. That's why I practiced. I just I wasn't worried about the money. I was more focused on improving my craft. And so I go into my time and dedicated toe just doing right by them and that in turn right there, you know a bigger opportunity and was bigger opportunities of the bigger opportunities and you know, that's kind of how it all comes. We just find doing right by those that you write about you.

Amen. Amen. So I'm a personal question. I'm curious how How big is basic

now? So basis now is shoot roughly 35 people 30 to 35. We it's fluctuating.

Yeah,

you know, not even start over. But we have a lot of contractors to come on board. But I think some time on staff, I think we're 31 or something.

So that's that's awesome. So does it. Doesn't get any easier. Doesn't get any easier when you go from 15 to

30. You know, that is just okay. So this is a fun talking throughout the years, you know, I've always said I would be a small studio, and we still are small in the grand scheme of when you look at the work would do against people typically competing against for business. But, uh, you know, when we first started, it was myself, Eric, Caitlin. Then you know you're too later. We're like six people, kind of just all working to do good things.

And then from that we kind of scale slowly but surely when you have ended up with 15. Stayed there for a little bit. And now here we are 30. You have these milestones, we almost double insides. You know, people. I talk to you now from 30 the next drop of 60 and it's a really interesting thing on. Part of that is due to the requirements, the projects in scope and finding. It seems that kind support businesses. But it's been shamed change going from 15 to 30. But the challenge now is still the same. When you're 15 you're chasing a certain type of work, and then you get that work. So then you get to decide you're out,

and now we're chasing that next level, which more brutal stuff. And so we're up against it again as being a small guy, big pond, but meat. We carry some weight. So it's it's from

Yeah, that's really interesting. I know everyone has, like, a different number, but, you know, people that didn't different, um, versions of a design agency of these different numbers of these ideal team size is that where you're the most profitable and you know you got I never thought I would be working on these kind of questions. Like, you know, I was like, I did it because I want to make design work. And then now, you know, I'm thinking about well,

how much administrator overhead and how much, you know, like, how much, How how long does it take to close a business? And, you know, I don't know. I don't really usually talk too much about fun sized business on this show, But if you don't mind

No, let's talk

about this. Since since we're here, I have a question for you, and this is something that I'm dealing with right now. Like right before I talked to you having a conversation with Maria, our head of operations. And we have this where this pivotal moment. Right now we have this opportunity to bring in a design director that it exactly fits the mold of what we look for in a leader he used to run an agency. He built a product at this agency, sold it to a Bay Area company instead of instead of going their way, he fifth fought. The good fight has been freelancing like he's a great designer, he's a technologist. Like he's he's all the things that you look for, right? But then it's like, Well,

you know, you don't quite have the sales to support these hires, right? Right? And that you're gonna invest in growth, right? Like so when you have these, I guess to be direct with you when you have an opportunity, you know, to bring someone onto your team that could really help you guys, like, get to the next level. How do you think about how do you make those decisions when, uh, you know, if the finances are aren't quite there yet?

And, uh, how do you know? Because it's it's not, You know it too, to grow.

It's hard. Yeah, it's Wow, It's such a funny topic that you're talking about this. We just brought on a consulting CFO. So it's a It's a fun thing because I'm looking at a different lens now, but what's gotten us to this point, just go with your gut and pulling the trigger on those people that you come across with the where I think we've never hired out of meat. We've always hired our opportunity, Um, and it's partly taking a risk. As a business owner, you've gotta believe in yourself and knowing that it might get slow. But you're gonna find that opportunity kind of push yourself out there. I don't need luck. Personally. I'm going to put yourself in opportunities,

capitalized on opportunities. And so this design director is That person came separate fit, and you really believe that he or she can change the game. Then I think it's something that you need to look at yourself doing. Okay, you know what? Bring this person on. Whether it's a pickup for myself or whatever the situation is, let's get a move that so

it's Ah, thank you for doing that. I mean, it's not only is it, like, really interesting to see how your mind thinks, but that's actually really something that I'm struggling with, You know, Um and, you know, you know, like I don't know, like running a design business is hard and you know, you're trying to balance all the all these things and I don't know like you've been e think basic has been around for what? You're on you Maybe seven years now

there's just like coming on. So six a half?

Yeah, we're at four, but like, it's still like every year I feel like I learned more things. But then every year I'm like, hope shit like, I don't know anything about these other things. But, you know, I like I like the I like that, that being in that opportunity to constantly learn, Um So okay about constantly learning, Um, how have you been able to ensure that not only can your company grow, but how does how have you been able to ensure that Matt Faulk is constantly growing as a as a person as a business person, as a designer? How do

you do that? Yeah, that's such a great question. I've been mean when you run your business, your force about every day just because you're kind of trial by fire. I always say that mediocrity comes from doing things that are inspiring. And so as a business, I just and its answer already built into my d n a personality. But I always wanted progressive just moving forward in somewhere some capacity. So making mistakes, making sure I'm reading, like this year, trying to read a minimum of 10 pages a day, which doesn't sound like a lot, but it's crazy. How many books you blast through just doing that because those 10 pages term in that room with these next to nail your obtaining knowledge. I also trying every month pick of focus.

So what is my month? What am I gonna study this month? What is it? I want to learn a bit about this month because me, it's fun and going back, actually, one of the projects that help us on the map with Flood, which was a social rules attitude, and I realized during that is you're kind of just bombarded with messages and new streams and information all the time. And so you're kind of passive learning, but you're not really retaining. And so right now my focus is quite service's. That's actually everything. I'm focusing on business, a square as a person. It's just how to build a better network,

how to kind of a line and focus on clients means and just building relationships. And so I mean, just all my carpenter ship articles that I'm taking in and things that focus on that discussion about the team and what we feel we could do better when I think you better as a person to be about a partner to be famous clients, and that's the focus this month. So we'll see where it goes next month. But yeah,

yeah, it's interesting to you. I mean, way Haven't had too many conversations about this, so I don't want to get too. I think it's pretty inspirational. You're you're titlist CEO and executive creative director. Um, you're running the business, but you're also finding ways to from one understand to be involved in design. Like, what is the typical day look like? And And how involved are you in in the craft of design? I mean, I don't want to discount. Like everything is designed designing, designing a customer experience that's designed,

like, you know, designing teams that's designed But, like, how often are you in front of Ah, you know, how often are you at making something yourself?

Yeah. Uh, depends. I've been doing a little bit more of late just to kind of realign my passion. I feel that if I'm gonna be a little design company, I need to remember what it means to be actually doing the craft of it. Because things change also to maintain tapes I mentioned how much are they put on that. It's funny you come resting, but I'm designing a bit more right now because I'm actually redesigning our company. Of what site? Which is fun,

eh? Oh, man.

Yeah, but its's worshipping it about for years. Okay, so we're actually just kind of fine tuning code so

I can have your old one. Could can I have your old? Because I need a new

way. But it was one of those things where because I'm also kind of leaving the sale's efforts. I had to look, It went from a design and business issues standpoint, you know, looking it problem solving. And I'm a team put together some amazingly great work, but just I had to put my hand on it and do that. But his client were close. I tried to be involved heavily and wanted to protest. I don't get involved in a bit of everything for more of a creative oversight of point of view, just especially in the early stage of the relationship. Just kind of defining initial strategy at last year s. So we're going to launch the new billboard dot com. I was the designer on that, You know, I did some concept.

Work for what? We're going through the room right now. But, you know, I just again 12 projects and you're heavily, heavily, heavily involved in a resource based economy. Then, when the team had been rolled up sleeves, I will mean chrome industries, a slightly just launched as well as key, and shoes were about the march there over me. The team was basically tapped and I said, Hey, you guys wrecked me about my schemes and stay some late nights and basically pushed pickles were out on the tablet for you

function. Love that man. I mean, it's fun. Yeah, yeah, that's that's badass. I agree with that. Um, I may not be as involved in projects as you are, but what the way that I have found to balance that is, any time we hire a new designer, I mean, whether it's like an apprentice or a junior designer or a senior designer or a design director, the first project that they do, they do with me and and, um and I think the reason why I like doing that it's a few things like First like are the way that one of the reasons why where successful is not necessarily because of the design outputs himself,

but the process and the customer experience is intentionally designed. And so, you know, I have to make sure that someone aligns with our value system, understands how we do things so that they can actually be successful at the company. But it's also it's good meats from similar things. Like I don't get his rusty. Yeah,

no, I love putting time into the end of the junior. You know, in the new people that something even here at the agency would be better at the. We're good at finding people on getting a lot of stuff started people with kind of not mine so they could see the swim. But Irwin, who's one of our excessive choreographed here's almost models John ELISA are designed to record. We've been focusing on trying implement systems and make sure we get more time touching routine, you know, just hand on looking what they're doing, having talked through it happen, explain things because there's trial by fire. But there's also something we said. We're kind of done it, and so it's a fine line, but I'd love to hear that doing about it motivates and inspires me toe focus on doing the same.

I just, you know, like I've been doing this for a while. Um, and I used to be the guy that did all the pixels, like all of them, right, Like at least 90% of them. And then I'm in this position and I can't do that anymore in Try to balance it cause you know, like you like, at least right now, you know, for two years I had someone that drove cells, but right now it's me that's selling the company, and and I I sometimes get stressed out because I know that we have really great designers and they're way better than I am. And I feel great about that. Um and I know that I got to drive the bus right and someone's got to drive the bus.

And you know, I'm here about to be 40 and in the average employee age, and our company is like mid twenties, and I try really hard not to step on people's toes. I'm I'm extremely obsessive compulsive. It's very It's very hard for me to not to, like, go in and like, No, this is how you you know I want to do? Ah, I'm sure that's hard for you to, but, um, it's it's it's it's great to see people running companies that are still doing what they love. I mean, I have this sense that if you weren't doing that, you probably wouldn't enjoy working in your own company.

Oh, absolutely. It's It's really about just doing what excites you. And I love this and it's fun to you two seeing what excites me as I grow in the company goes, you know, like right now I'm focused on climate internships, and I never would have thought that would have been a thing that I want to really kind of double down on. You know, I got a call from designing, Forbid motivated that again. So she's spying where he's not opportunities for you to do what you love. And also, if you don't run your company, they're still cos I'll support you doing that. You know, I think I'm sure you risk your team grows and is it the things you're talking about, what excites them and keep them and move them in the direction they feel the need to go? Think it's, uh, she's important to people to stay on top of it like that.

It's it's It's tough, you know, It's a tough, interesting business, but, you know, I told lot of people that, um I'm sure you get bombarded to a lot of people. Ask me Well, why? Why is your business successful? Like, how are you doing this? And like I have, like, dependent, depending on the person.

A few answers, but one of the more popular ones is ice. I network like a motherfucker, you know, like all of our all of our businesses, referrals like you guys had built a like a brand that's so recognizable, and I'm sure that, like you got people just beating on your door. But I think when you're when you're when you're freelancing, you're just getting started like it's your like it's you. People are hiring you, you know, like and all those relationships matter. Like it's not just about doing great design work, but treat that customer really well, right?

Because they're going to refer you to, you know, Nixon, right? Or there's something else, you know. And, um, I I think that it's ah, it's hard. It's also hard for a lot of people that are are or shy, you know, Are you Are you Are you Would you consider yourself, like, very outgoing or shy like, Where are you on?

I'm comfortable in front of people enjoy being people together, But what's insane? Is this a network that I'm pretty terrible? I could be a lot better once I kind of report. So, for example, how you're not even human contact like that, that more of those kind of settings or where I kind of start doing relationships. I'm not the typical salesman like, Hey, I want to meet. Let's talk. Uh, so it's ministry. But, you know, I wish in my younger years I would have spoken more time.

I'm networking, which is why I'm trying to do it now, because your networks everything. But you never know when opportunity is gonna come and doing right by people with referrals you could get. And also it's about delivering value to them, and it's not expecting something back in return. I mean, that's that's one of the fun things that people need to remember to this and said, Well, just helping pull out, it always comes back you know? So,

yeah, it does. It really does. And it may not be immediate, and it might be like two years

later, I know for sure, but it's not even about that anyways. It's just not afraid to go out there and connect people and like minded individuals. Shit. That's what life's about.

Yeah. Okay. A couple questions for you, huh? So, uh, these days in this day and age, um, people can go get pretty good design in a lot of different places, right? Like you can You can, ah, design Inc this season, sponsor of the podcast. You cannot get a designing and you can get You can find some amazing designers there. Right? That's probably curated.

Uh, you go dribble. Ah, you can hire ah, small agency. You can hire a big agency. You can, you know, do that on and off shore. Like what makes what gives basic its competitive edge.

If I had that answer, the whole different spot. Yeah, way we really approach projects. Wouldn't strategy mindset and not just strategy from a design perspective. But we fully and go ourselves our clients, businesses, and everyone's gonna say this, but it's little ones like the whole process is you don't just focus on what we're trying to achieve from consumer when this mission is but also operational efficiency bins. Which other groups you, too. And so that's what it's like. Okay, that's awesome. And we might do better than people, But it's cultural fit, understanding,

focus. I mean, there's so many different things, you know? Let me carve a pretty solid niche for ourselves with meaning Mike's down covers and that came from us doing a lot of lifestyle brand. So we said right into that and also just dedicated in San, focused on the show to talk about so well we haven't landed yet. So selective, you know, you have a very strong align it with the millennial culture have highlighted ass is one of the best agencies You work in their shoe and that's true. I think what we've focused on its being expert, saying It's my things, you know, JD and an instrument I read any of you and I were just talking about a small company and what they've been up there, it's gonna be admired. So much is small things well, and that's how you entrust and you continue to improve. So I used that as motivation for me.

Did you say small things? Well, it really said yes. OK, yeah.

So everyone's always trying to the big thing, you know? What's the big thing you're doing? What's the big idea? What's the big idea? You much of small ideas really well would become something big. And so that's what I'm trying to do here company. You know, looking Nixon, the work we did with them, it wasn't anything groundbreaking. Uh, you just brought a different approach to it from merchandising Sandpoint and then just little subtle, you know, for my interactions that people had really thought of those small details, made the overall experience so much better. And that's why people in our emulating what we kind of did you know, what now? For two years ago? So it's pretty fun that way. It's it's driven company.

Yeah, that's great. I want to get back to another thing. You said it is a second ago you said you fully engulfed yourself in their businesses. Um, I mean, I think I have an idea of what you're talking about, but you don't have to necessarily give a client's name away, but it's a little bit more about what that actually means.

Yeah, okay, well, very quiet in something different. When you look a structural relationship, it's really about solving business issues. So sometimes the partners that you're working with clients don't know what those businesses are. They might have an idea, so they might be saying, Oh, we're having a hard time reaching this audience. Okay, Well, what our job is agent Seasons consultants and a strategist is to look at what they're saying and take it a step further. Is it because they're reaching our audience? Is it because what they're brand stands for doesn't line what their audience stands for? Or is it because the application strategies wrong or is because the website sucks?

Or the technology behind it is right? So it's really about looking at things from all angles and just really having those very deep conversations to relieve me from an expert in their business. This was an issue you're trying to reach anyone from their defining a road map that you can adapt to all that you go, and that's that's the nuts bolts of gold for yourself. In quite

business, all right. So Matt Fox knows how to do that. But you're growing your team, and you want them to do that like you want them to be in the business. Like not just doing great design. Were being being a great consultant in a strategist. Um, how do you make sure that your team knows how to do that? Is it just like did you Did you do a lot of like, general like leveling off of people? Or did you like hire specialist with that sort of mindset? Like, How did you make sure? How do you make sure that your agency at 50 something can do

that? Really? Well, yeah, It's not putting people in the right spot understanding personality. I think my biggest strength is the leader is my understanding people won't get it in the rally costs. And so I've also been, you know, pretty good pretty people where we need them to be it, I guess he's kind of gotten where we are, but I think it's about around people to kind of level up as you mentioned, given opportunity, kind of be involved in that and learned also kind of again sink or swim dispersing people off it and bend where you're forced to learn it. I think it's the it's survival, but it's not about me. They were gonna fire him, but they're gonna be forced himself a kind of align with it and not answer this question exactly what I wanted to.

But really, it's anything we They have a client's involvement, every process on our clients but our designers, the discovery process, but our strategist and creative grafters and stuff facilitating the builds motions and so that the teams working on it, they're constantly getting things unapproved internally or recording polls that why the design approaches of all because of the strategy. So we're always rationalizing or directions in our our insights based on what we've learned, and so they're getting forced into changing what they're doing because of the strategic that that's what you're thinking. And that's where we kind of grow things that like I was ready. But

yeah, that's another thing that I I realize, um, I've realized more on I don't know if you're seeing this, but I'm definitely seeing a year by year progression into people hiring companies like yours and mine, probably for the strategic things right. Like some of them are hard, hard to define, um, in I don't know. From my perspective, I didn't really predict that. Like when I said when we started doing this, we were hired because, you know, we were just where we're experts in mobile design and at the time, like that was fairly unique.

And, um, but now it's not, you know, like a lot of a lot of the team's hire us are, you know, they're design leaders or engineering leaders, and they have They have, like, designers way, and they're looking form or something. More like, What is the future look like? Like, you know, fuck the next dot release of this.

Like what? Like, how does this go, like, how do we be successful? Like, what is it? You know, like I don't know. So I've really I've realized I'm learning how that's probably the next thing that I I gotta figure out. Somehow

you see you guys doing as your agencies moving forward on design is becoming What did he almost looked as commoditization of our industry.

Uh, I think a lot of ah industries have seen it before, you know, like the Web design industry, for example. I mean, you've definitely found a way to to counter act that by, like having a specific, like value proposition. But, you know, think about it like you know what? You know what? If you what would what would a Web site costs? What would Nixon redesign cost in 2006? Right lot more right and same thing right now is happening with Mobile. Whether people will realize that or not.

It's, um if you're just talking about making an app, Um, people are hiring internally, you know, like, and that's definitely that's definitely happening. I actually have a on article about this that I'm writing that I hope to publish soon, but a lot of Okay, so rewind a lot of the companies that hire us a lot different than the companies they're hiring you like. We're usually hired by product teams at tech companies not to say tech up. It could be like a big berry tech company or could be a started. But there's one common thread there. All product teams are all making product. And there, there ah,

in their their designers or their engineers. And so a lot of them. Most of them have hired hiring internally, but their designers are focused on the next release of the thing because the executives know that there's an r o I there, right, it's But the problem is, and the opportunity, I think, for agencies is to be thinking about the future. Because, no, they're so focused on shipping updates. No one's thinking about the future. Yeah,

so what about the future? But align with the president. It's an interesting challenge.

So it's weird, and I don't know what it is. But like four years ago we started was all absolutely. It was all Web baps, all mobile APS. And when I look back at what we did in 20 16 it was like 70% APS, 30%. Something else. And these these other things are weird, right? Like like we've been. We've been doing things that go way beyond what we thought we ever would do. Like making video. We have producing videos and and, ah, you know, to solve a business problem.

One time for a customer that we thought would be a digital solution. End up being a analog solution like a card game, right? Like like learning game mechanics and making it like I never thought we'd be doing that kind of stuff. So I I think that for our company this year, next year it's It's probably gonna be some sort of 60 40 50 50 balance between production of making a thing and and an idea hating And, you know,

no, it's it's I agree. It's a It's a shift from being service focuses, solution focused and being, You know, R. J does a good job talk about this a billionaire models to find the best time in the world for whatever task is at hand. And so you have internal people. But they also go on. Outsourcing is different agencies, but they you know, you cover them with an idea or a problem, and they focus on the issue and then defied this out like a solution. But this event in brand name you calling platform and I mean, that's it's Morgan sentence see into his agency after sought to dividend said, That's the future of 18 seasons. Become consultants means, and I agree.

Yeah, so, uh, it's in the way that I'm starting to like I used to be really like adamant about we on Lee Doo Mobile. You know, you hire, like, somewhat so badass. It like doing brand identity. And in the lake, we ended up doing a, like, a brand identity for a very well known gaming company. Like Holy Shit, we did that. We did that. Brandy.

Oh, God. Man. You know, like and so at this point, I'm just happy to, like, solve anything. That's interesting. Yeah, Anything you know, I don't know, like out. You know, I'm open to whatever.

You know, It's also not going to do.

What about you guys? I mean, where do you? I mean, do you see any? Um, it sounds like you guys are very aggressively, you know? You know, you have an aggressive focus, and that's great. Like, do you see any changes? Basic and then touch will be doing the future.

It's gonna adapt is our clientsneeds. Do we definitely are trying to become more ingrained as a strategic partner. Clients in every capacity from, you know, organization strategies to help them understand audiences more to create in touch, ones that got them there. So, uh, you know, people know us for a lot of article experiences, but what got us here was our, you know, brand knocked down and are world and doing that and so just stay in focus. And true to being smarter of what's happening in business and how to transform this is its recurrence, I think, is the direction company's gonna head what that means. It's who knows.

I've never had a of their plan. In that sense, it would be fun to see, but yeah, I think I have an eye for the future and just trying to know the stresses that come and go It's Steve and, you know, like, where a project agency which you know, is actually working out for us because the agency of record kind of models going away, it's a lot more project focused work because of so many studios like ours. You know, everyone is that, like, the Roomba thing wasn't so just trying to be top of mind. It's kind of our goals are handsome or continue to do that by work.

Have you ever had someone he really wanted to work with? Tell you that you're too small? The company,

our man, um, not to rep me. Uh, you been involved in a kind of our discussion to different things where they've gone a different direction. And I do think it was because of size, because if your c m o of a company and you've got this group was another group and they both did great work, both seem to be a cultural fit. But one has seven offices across seven different regions and its global ever. And the other one only has one week after network and meet new groups to kind of get that when you're gonna go with the other one, because the sides. And so I think there is a bit of that this happened. That's something I'm actually working on, building a better network collaborators. And they are agency scales. We need to support the Christ that are asking us work.

That's cool. Sometimes. You know, I don't know if you're open to this, but I was thinking about going to, um, owner Summit, which is gonna be in San Diego. Are you going to that? I mean, even if you're not, I'd love Thio, um,

hang out with, you know, I just signed up for today, so I will choke

you. Okay. Yeah, I'll sign that I'll sign up for that, too. And if you're if you're open to it, I'd love to squat in your in your office. You know, have a have a drink with your conversation, so Oh, man. Well, so you know, Congrats on everything. I mean, Ah, it's it's really fun,

toe, you know, see what you guys were doing. And, um, I'm I'm just curious on a personal level, like, you know, What are you What do you What? What are you looking forward to in 2017? Like, uh, could be, you know, it doesn't have to be a business thing. Like what? What What are you excited about this year? And where you gonna be, Uh, pointing yourself?

Yeah, it's a fun year because I don't see this every years that this year is the year that the company can really kind of become more established and really kind of get where we need to be, and then we have to reinvent ourselves. So I'm really excited to see what we're out of this. 30% To see how the scale it or where we can kind of throw or well, we always a team decided what the company become. This is a fun year because now we have three more people become five year includes, which is awesome. So we have a first time last year. I think you have any more this year, so it's kind of fun to see and they've all been requested. So just kind of distress, the vision of we want to be. And when we wanted to know, that's why I'm sending out then also just a lot of a change in transition, you know, exported it A r I think will be really fun.

Yeah, the same one scene with the wind takes, That's all, Miss. It's that's what I just don't really have a plan. Eventually, he's gonna go with the flow 25 days.

Mmm. I think this year for me, what I want to do is I just wantto, uh I feel like I want to be a better human being. I feel like I, uh I'm always on, like I'm always working. I don't overwork myself. I don't work later, that kind of things. But I feel like, um, it's important for me on a personal level to, um, get back into some of like like friendships that our outside of the industry, um, on a business level,

I think, what I think. Actually, what I want to do is is to try to do what you said earlier, just like having like absolute faith. I think a lot of things that I'm scared about our is a fear of my own ability. You know, Um,

I don't see Andrew Anthony of you family. Just let it go and start over. It's established. It's I don't know what's you have really nothing. That we can start it over again, like become any different. Companies have kind of gone to the wayside and things. That's what I look at it. I mean, I would be devastated this unit, for whatever reason, falling apart here. But I bet it power for a minute and then roll the sleeves and get back to work. And I think that's where the risk taking comes in. And it's the wrong time for fun. That's not passionate. That fire that you get,

you know, it's what excites me is that constant hustle on that stress. It was easy. Everybody would do it. I think that's what separates different groups, so I don't guess more than capable of that.

Yeah, Um I feel, you know, like, I feel extremely excited about the team that we have And I get like, I'm like, I love like, uh, you know, bringing new people in. And I'm really excited about potential growth. I mean, if I could do anything I wanted to dio, I'm ready to sort of take this to whatever's next. I think for us like it's like maybe a studio somewhere else, you know? And I don't Maybe that's stupid,

but I feel like that's, you know, just because of the way that we work in the way that we do things that that seems more likely, you know, like we do a lot of us and in Finland and things that these other places it would like if it were just talking about dreaming a bit. I think I would like to take what we're doing and do that somewhere else. Um, I don't

know what you're established culture. Yeah, that's that's That's awesome.

I was I was about to let you go, and then you said something about having these employees that have been with you for five years, and it reminded me of something you said in the first, like five minutes of the show. You said something like you. You want to make sure that your team is invested in the future. Um, how do you do that? How do you make sure? How are people able to influence, uh, change inning and growth in the company?

Yeah. Through a lot of conversations, I have developed a pretty intimate relations. The team and I really empowered them to take names and build the company they want. Um and so part of that is obviously the cultural fit in alignment between all of us. But they feel very comfortable coming to me and tell me what it was a wrong means. You're very comfortable. Tell me when they want to work on an opportunity. They also you know, it's so fun. Thing in this nature is you know, as people, growing companies, the companies, you go with them because they're they're gonna be chasing you opportunities and challenges. Which is one of the reasons why I've always wanted to continue to build the company Larger is any for myself. In my film,

it is just that next challenge, but also for the team. Where would science? He's our associate creative director, So he's coming from it. Designer to senior designer Thio. A design lead to, you know, now on a CD, and he's kind of growing on the stretches. And now I don't think he's designed not much in the last six months. He definitely helps concepts and things, but his role was really meant to rain. Reading this strategy and going in that room is very happy to see a new challenge. It's in eso just facility in a company culture that enables you to do that well, still staying true to what their best talents,

if that's really important to, um, I'm gonna kind of rambling about this, I think is important. Uh, far too often, people feel like they need a grand title and get away from what you're great at. Just because your calls for you to no longer be so you're the designer, a great person, actually. The craft of what we do, Why do you feel the need to become a manager if you're not even

close? The guy

so and that happens far too often, and eso here the company really try to set it up or it's not based on structure. In that sense, it's more where you going the most value to the company and that what you could be. So you're great. Turn around. You're great designer you're wanted for and staying true. That I think isn't important. I think that's how we make enough.

Yeah, man, a whole other conversation. But I know this is something we talked about. It is, I think it's very important. You know, it's Ah, I mean and I look at myself in the career decisions I made. I I know what that feels like. You know, to feel like you have to leave where you're at to go somewhere else, to earn more. And then the status quo is, Oh, you want to earn more? Oh, you've got to take more responsibilities And those responsibilities aren't necessarily what you might enjoy doing right,

be born and might not even be more responsibilities. It might just be a different responsibility. Yeah, and yes, it's kind of crazy. You hire this people because of what? They're great at what you put in the role. They have no experience and that no experience to be completely for them. So you take away what?

Uh oh. I'm so passionate about this topic. And I've definitely made that mistake fun size before, and And in doing that, I'll never do it again. Like now. I'm so, like I'm so aware of this, like understanding whether someone is wired to, like, be a leader or like, just one. Like maybe you just want to be a great illustrator, right? Like, why can't you earn as much as a manager, right?

If if you really value all the crafts equally, why can't like this is something our industry just needs to be get better at figuring out how to grow people without having to turn a great designer into a shitty manager? You know, um, there's, you know, it's tough, you know, Um and it sounds like you are, you know, have ways of doing that. You know, we're trying our own ways of doing that, but yeah,

I know.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, sometimes it's just diversity, right? Like, um, I find that some people like leading and designing, but they don't really want to do like this. Wanna build a switch that up every now and then? I don't like

this is part of it.

Yeah. So, um, I think that's that's something that we're trying right now. Like giving people a leader shop, leadership opportunities, even if they're a genius, like junior designer. But they may be They know our process really well. So they do have the ability to, like, lead something, but they're still like leveling up as a designer. Yeah, so they're getting there getting this sort of, um, client management expertise,

But they're still growing as a junior designer. Or maybe from the opposite angle. You're like a design in our in our company. We have the top roles design director. We have three of them, and, um, but maybe, you know, maybe for for three months that design director isn't directing anything at all. They're just designing on a project like like you're doing. And I think that that's

I don't myself, John Melissa. That's how we are. It's it's flat. Title of city. It doesn't really matter. But, you know, basically, you need to do what's necessary to the job done. Someone's here on board with that here. That's our protein to form words. So it's fun of those times that are. You know, our designers were guiding our actives and, you know, it's it's it's great to try to maintain a flat structure and this girl,

huh? And that's I think the next phase is really more about how to maintain that as we scale, whether that's small spinoff agencies within the agency, like instruments done or skip remote office or yeah, get it, get a team to knows what we're gonna try and get a trial by fire.

Yeah, um, I would love to have a follow up, you know, one on one talk with you and just talk about that more. You know, this this is what keeps me up at night thinking that out, right? Like that. That that question in all these things are related to, like, how do you know? You said earlier to another thing like you grow the business because you're also you care about the people, right? Like like you know, people are getting you know, people are aggressive and want to learn.

I want to, you know, grow and do things and and, you know, like you said and not so many words. But if you don't do that, then you're limiting. You're limiting some abilities are opportunities. And I I think about this stuff all the time. Um and, you know, honestly, I don't really know how to do it. You know, it's the first time I've ran a company like, Well,

I've had another company, but there was four of us, and it was different, you know? Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, Matt, I taken too

much of your time. No, no loss is fun.

That's cool. I talked about so official. Well, I've been really looking forward Thio to talk with me ever since we hung out

a lot about

a year ago. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like you just busy. Um Well, hey, I really I really look forward to seeing you at owner Summit. I think it's like next month or the month after. And, um, you know, before we before we part, you know, how can how can people find you on the interweb and

yeah, you just pretty much all my handles on my name just at Matt Falk, m a T T f a u. Ok. And then be sure to check out the agency dot com. We also just shipped are your interview So fun Little micro site we put together highlighting last year. You guys check it out. That's just basic agency dot com forward slash why I are checking out.

Thanks, Matt. Iraq.

Thank you. Appreciate

it. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time on hustles made by Fun Size, a digital design agency that works of inspiring product teams around the world. Learn more about us at fun size dot c e o The season of hustles brought to you by design in the best place to find creative talent and receive free proposals for your project, go to designing dot com slash hustle and get started today. If you're a designer and you'd like to join, you can apply it designing dot com slash Apply also thanks to graveyard teeth for the Music and Black River Audio for mixing the show.