Have you ever been scared to contribute to a conversation or publish a block post Because you were worried you weren't qualified enough?

How did I get to this point in my career? I don't belong here.

Oh, getting to this place in my career has been just pure

luck. Eventually, someone is gonna call me out for the fraud

that I am. One is the last time a similar thought crossed your mind. Probably pretty recently, and we're no exception. All four of us have experienced imposter syndrome, but we've all developed our own personal ways to combat it. Let's get started.

Welcome to the ladybug podcast. I'm Kelly.

I'm Allie. I'm Emma and I'm Lindsay and word debugging the tech industry. So there's a lot of talking to developer community about how imposter syndrome and pack says so how we felt it. Emma, you can go first,

so I fell Imposter syndrome a lot, I think, as you grow in your career and as you grow on social media and you're following your follower count increases. It's just, you know, exemplified through for these things, or it's, um I'm not sure the right word is, but it's a lot more prevalent, right? Because now there are so many more thousands of eyes watching everything that you do. One situation in particular remember imposter syndrome. Being really bad was at a Google job interview. Actually, I think job interviews in general are a place where we all struggle to feel like we know what we're doing, what we're talking about. And that is gonna be a whole other episode,

right? The front and interview process. But going to a company like Google, where everyone is in the lead engineer in their field and having to white board coding solutions for data structures and algorithms and know the ins and outs of JavaScript had really gotten into my my head and I got kind of tripped up about my skills. Like, am I good enough? Right? I even thought about kind of canceling the interview, which was ridiculous, because you've gotta put yourself through these things, but yeah, I seriously debated. We're just pulling out of the whole interview because I had this imposter syndrome and I didn't want to, you know, put myself out there. So,

uh, yeah, job interviews. Ali. What

about you? So, for me, I quit computer science my sophomore year of college. So I started off that seem year trying Thio are I was just totally new to learning how to code that same year. I had just learned a python and I thought it was magical that you could type stuff into a computer and something else would come out and you could build all these games and all these super fun things and that I took my second cost, which wasn't C plus. Plus, I didn't really understand it, like Python has all these things like lists built into them. Why would you ever use C++? Because there's less built into it and you have to write more code to do the same thing. You have to deal with pointers and all that. And so I totally thought that I wasn't good at it. I was pulling all nighters. There was this to dope you're solving algorithm that we had to implement in one of our first weeks using backtracking, and I had no idea what I was doing.

It was so hard, I spent so much time on it. And so on top of that, I felt like a lot of people on the computer science department didn't look like me. They didn't have the same interests to me. None of that. And so I felt like I really didn't fit in. And so after that semester, I ended up putting computer science and just thought that it wasn't for me. And I look back on it and I feel so silly about that because I thought that I wasn't good at all. But I got a B in the class. I wasn't that battered it. And just for me, that was not good at that time. And so I especially working so hard in it to get a B was like, really,

really tough for me. So that was definitely a huge moment of imposter syndrome. And I guess at that point I count on wasn't Impostor. Oh, it was just learning how to code. But I do wish that I had stuck with it even though it was challenging, and I felt like I didn't

belong. It's really interesting that you say that there weren't people that looked like you or have the same interest because I think we take this for granted, right subconsciously like our our minds are kind of taken in all of our surroundings and and subconsciously we're like, Oh, like we get a pretty good feel on on whether or not we feel like we fit in by nature, which, um, I just feel like it's kind of I'm not a psychology expert, and Kelly can probably talk a little bit more to this. But subconsciously, we have these thoughts, and it's like that sets the ground work for our imposter syndrome level. Like if you're not surrounded by people that that look like you are not just look like you but have the same interest and whatnot like that's gonna be it's gonna set the bar a little bit higher to reaching this level of imposter syndrome. Because I don't know, Kelly, what are your thoughts on that? No,

I completely agree with you there. And you know, when you're when you're putting the situation, there's nobody around you, like you cannot see another person who really looks like you know in a way. I mean, you can almost feel like it's an attack on your, you know, on your comfort zone, like just that in its own is going to set you off off balance a little bit and then trying Thio combat that on top of doing well in the class as well. It's just is all compiling and it's it becomes too much. I also think it's funny you mentioned to Aly that, like you were an impostor at the time, like aren't we all like it is? You begin this journey. I think we all are impostors to a certain degree,

but I think in the beginning you don't realize this. And it's only once you gain more experience that you recognize that Oh my gosh, like, do I know what I'm doing? It's kind of ah, kind of ironic. I think that there is a really big moment in your your own personal growth when you start to recognize you don't know everything and you know it's accepting. That is a big step in moving forward in, in moving past the impostor

syndrome. Yeah, one of my old mentors. My fever thing that he ever said was that at no point in this, you're gonna know everything. But the moment that I feel like you've made it is when you know you can look at any site or up and realize that with enough time and enough learning that you could eventually get to a point where you could build something like that. And I feel like more recently have kind of gotten to that point, especially with blogging and learning all these new things that yeah, given enough time and enough learning opportunities like I could learn, not saying so, totally agree with that. That's a tangential.

But I think one other point to that before you know we hear more from Lindsay on her side of things is that we look at the work that someone has done that is exemplary in a field, and we assume that means that their genius and everything. Ah, and that's just totally not true, right? So let's take, you know, someone who is very big in this industry. Dan Neighbor Mom is known as a react expert, but he did publish a block talking about how maybe his CSS skills were not great and he openly admitted this. But we look at someone like that in the industry and we assume that because they're good in one thing, they're good at all things and it's just not true. So we need to kind of recognize that. Hey, you know, this person is really good at react. Maybe I'm not, but maybe I'm really good at laying things out and see us, us and that somewhere that they struggle.

So totally, Totally. Okay, now tow, give back off that Tanja Kelly. What's your imposter Syndrome story?

So one of my biggest ones was when I was invited to speak at my first conference and it was Shopify Pursuits. And they asked me to talk about my experience from from going from freelancing to starting an agency. And you know, the steps it took to get there and everything I learned along the way and to be asked to speak in front of this crowd of people specifically about my own growth, is it? It's blinking on the word I'm looking for here.

It was intimidating, or

we'll go with that. It was really intimidating. And, you know, this isn't an all expenses paid trip as well, so they're they're literally paying me to do this too. So it made me very, very feel very vulnerable about talking about my journey here. And, you know, obviously, once I got there and s after I actually started my talk, I got a super into it and everything was great. And I got a lot of really positive feedback afterwards and, you know, seeing the heads nodding and people agreeing with me and taking pictures of the of my slide deck and things like that, you know it.

I ended up feeling a lot better about it, but just going into it, even seeing that email, just asking me to speak at the conference was super overwhelming, like I did not actually belong there. Well, I think to once you have money on the line, that kind of changes things, right. I mean, it's one thing to press published on a blood post like That's a free post, right? But when someone is giving up money and time to help organizes and you are the person that they're hiring, it's like, Oh, crap.

Now am I really good enough? Like people are paying to see me, that's, you know, mind blowing.

I think going back to our last conversation thio with the feeling like you don't belong or feel like you stick out like a sore thumb and an environment like a lot of these big conferences. When I'm at them, I feel like I totally stick out like a sore thumb, being a lot younger than everybody in being one of the few women there. And so I think that that's a huge place where I feel imposter syndrome, too, is like, you know, get Shepherd over to shepherded over to the press area lot or into the student section, and it's like, No, like, I'm an actual software engineering. I've been in this industry for actually quite a few years at this point, but anyways, I think just really quickly when it comes to being paid to go someplace I was freaking out before I spoke at not Shopify, but Spotify through those two mixed up,

and they flew me out to Stockholm and it was definitely one of the highlights of my career. But I remember thinking in my head before they paid money. What if it sucks? What if it's talk sucks and I was so I mean, it was one of my faith favorite talks that have ever given. But I remember leading up to it being like, Oh my gosh, I cannot mess this up. I cannot mess this up being super, super terrified and thinking like the's react engineers. They're gonna think I'm still a They don't. I don't know what I'm doing with this. I can't talk about JavaScript the same way. So, yeah, definitely,

definitely relate to that a lot with the first. Well, not my first conference, but definitely my first, like, big big conference.

So And that you have you have experience as well with imposter syndrome at your first conference to Yeah, mine was a kind of a weird situation because I was Ah, my first conference speaking Engagement was with reactor yes, girls in London, and I was thrilled to go back to London, and it seemed like a really cool organization. And I'm the first top. And so we opened this conference with all of us dressing up like I don't even remember. You have to go look it up. Reactors, girls London opener. But ive Porcello had us all, like, dress up like the apple guys like we wore, like, scores and glasses. So we do.

This is really silly presentation. I had to run back and change, which helped my imposter syndrome a little bit. I go up to the station present in the 1st 1 and I look out and the entire reactor reactor core like native core teams are sitting in the front row. And I'm sitting there thinking, Well, crap, right, because I'm at a react conference my first time presenting in the court. Teens were sitting in the front row. It was terrifying, but it was also reassuring to see them, you know, really engaged. They weren't on their phones. They were taking,

you know, photos of my slides and that to me, like, really helped reassure me that, you know, I have things that are valuable to say as well. But yet so, Lindsay, you mentioned you know, your conference. But you also teach classes, don't you? So, what was your experience to gym class of your foul imposter syndrome

there? So I love teaching. Ah, Ali got, like, helps me get into teaching as well. But I was recently teaching a class about, like, programmer lingo and stuff like that. And I was looking over the slides and actually talking to Allie be like, Oh, my gosh, some of this tougher terms I don't even know. How am I even qualified to teach this class like a lot of low level programming terminology that I had never come across in my life on dhe. I was freaking out, but I actually what I did is I also just like you know what, Lindsay,

you've been doing this for five years. You know more than the people who are coming to this class, and you can do your best. And it was definitely terrifying. I've taught intruder coating, which I always loved doing, but this one, which was just like talking like a programmer, it wasn't even geared toward Web developers or wannabe Web developers. More just people who want thio talk and interact with their Web developers more. And I felt like half the terminology was stuff I was so clueless about. I had to handle it in a way where I'm like, you know what the worst case scenario happens is, you know, somebody asks me a question. I say,

I don't know. And I think that was actually a very helpful realization is being like, if I don't know what it's okay. So, Ali, what's another time you felt imposter syndrome? Yes. So I think this whole year has been wild with my blood posts, getting a lot more intention and like Twitter and doing bigger conferences and all that, like why me? And why air people reading my stuff and what makes my stuff better and it probably isn't better. It's just partially luck and timing and being okay of marketing stuff. And so I think that that's been a huge piece of imposter syndrome, especially with people saying stuff on the Internet and all that. I think it totally brings up different insecurities and something new every day, seemingly,

but it's my thing. But that's brought about a lot of imposter syndrome to it's It's like, You know, I'm not necessarily some tonics developer just because we will read my block most. I think that people sometimes think that that's the way that it is especially, you know, on Twitter, whatever it's like. I'm not. I just can talk about stuff and also write code. That's why it happens not because I'm some

rockstar developer. Yeah, people see, like the amount of followers you have and then you just automatically make this assumption that you're, like, totally an expert, and something is like, No, I tweet pictures of possums and talk about food. So I'm definitely not an expert in technology. But I think going to this plowing thing, you know, one of the reassurances that we have a seeing all the positive feedback, right, That helps kind of combat, uh, imposter syndrome.

And then you get one comment on your block. That's like, you don't know you're talking about. This is terrible. You should never write again. And it totally, like, just demoralizes you, and it negates all of the positive, right? Even if the ratio of positive to negative is like 1 to 200 it doesn't make a difference. That one negative comment, like totally destroys

morale. Yeah, 100 was, especially if it comes at a different angle from other negative stuff that you've gotten in the

past. I feel like I get numb to the

stuff that I get a lot like. I'm numb to the people asking me out at this point or calling me pretty like whatever that sucks. But it happened so often that I'm so used to it. But then somebody comes at you from a new angle on DDE. It just knocks you on your feet again and you're like, Oh, this is probably true. This person's right about me. They exposed me.

It's absolutely. And there's a lot that goes into it on the psychology side as well. When we get a positive like we get a compliment from somebody, we're very good at associating out as something external to ourselves, like, Oh, I know there was just a lot of research that went into this or I didn't invent. The way this code works is just easy to read. But when we get a negative compliment, a compliment, we get some kind of negative comment coming in. We immediately internalize it. We immediately put it towards towards ourselves, and it's a personal attack on us, and we just we do this naturally. So it's hard. It's difficult to combat something like that when it's it's your first instinct to react that way.

Yeah, And speaking of that, Kelly, can you tell us a little bit more about your You know, you built a company, right? And it's quite impressive. Especially because you're not old as faras we know. Maybe you are. We actually don't know. 48. You're 48. Okay. Well, you look great. Could you tell us a little more about imposter syndrome in regards to,

like, building your own company. Yes, So I am 28. And yes, So I've built up this company. And, you know, I've worked with so many business owners with online stores making way more money than I could ever dream of making, you know, talking 10 2030 $40 million a year. And yet they come to me for the advice on how to run their business. And it's it's surreal. You know, when you're in a calling, you like,

Oh, should we make this really major change to our website? Like, do you think it'll impact our sales? And I know how to respond to it and give them the proper advice. And even though I've been in the shop by space for almost five years now, I still every single time this comes up. I'm always thinking to myself, you know, who am I to be telling you how to run your business?

I can. I can only imagine how tough that is because your Shopify plus expert but sorry I had to, like, just give you that. Um, you're a shop of five plus expert. But you you're talking to these people who might not have any clue about the Web or how Shopify works. But they they are definitely successful business people, and I can't even imagine how hard it is to get out of your shell with that,

especially when I have no background in business like my bachelors is in psychology. And I have two master's degrees in public health and social work, which is not at all related to development. And it's not at all related to business. But I'm just figuring it out as I

go. What a double whammy Thio s. Oh, yeah, it's kind of interesting to me. How when you get that one comment, you really, really remember it? Even if it was the smallest comment, the one comment that made you feel really, really bad. For example, I remember this one comment where I posted about tool tips and making accessible tool tips on Twitter, and I remember it was something I had experienced directly like in terms of the code, something I had to deal with, a problem I had to solve. But it wasn't necessarily the best practice of when you used tool tips And I had one person who I super respect basically tell me that that was wrong.

And I remember wanting to quit, quite frankly, and it wasn't even that big of a deal. It was just I could stand up for myself and I could say this is the situation I had. I prefer to do things this other way. But I had a client work, and this is how I made this accessible. So this is the thing that I did, and it was nice to explain that, but I definitely needed a pep talk. I actually talked to share and share Scarlet. Yeah, sure share. Scarlett, Um, she was super great at helping. Ah, me pushed through that because I felt like I didn't know about accessibility and I wasn't qualified to do it. And that's a huge identity crisis for me, because that's literally what my entire career is about.

Yeah, and to that point, Lindsay, like, it's really hard to receive criticism from people that you respect, especially when it's about your passion. But I think that this kind of goes to the way in which people do give constructive criticism or do give feedback and it's like what they maybe we're just trying to, you know, let's assume that they were trying to be helpful, but maybe the way they said, it kind of enhanced our imposter syndrome, you know? And and I think we forget that the way in which we phrase things, especially because, you know, people interpret things differently through the Internet and cross culture. But the way that we phrase are, our words can have a positive impact. Or they can have a negative impact, depending upon how we see

things. Totally. I actually think that's if that was phrase completely differently. I could have been like, Oh, yeah, I totally know that this was just a scenario that I dealt with that work and this is how I made it work. And if that were the case, I don't think I would have shut down. And how you deliver feedback is so, so important. Kelly. Didn't you, like, write a block post or a tweet thread about how it thio deliver feedback? I can't remember, but yeah,

it's it's so important because like we're all human and you know we want to grow and we want Thio rise above But when it comes down to it, when you say it in a way that isn't constructive, you shut down like you're just a human. That's all that right. You can really respond to it. But let's Segway because Kelly, you were talking about being a business owner, and I actually would love to talk about that because we talk about imposter syndrome a lot from like to develop her mindset. But I feel like when you go into entrepreneurship, that is a whole new can of worms. So when you started your agency, did you get in positive

syndrome? That imposter syndrome still has not left? Let's say that you were were very good friends. They're the passive Citrine is very much here on a day to day basis, and it becomes really, really difficult as an agency owner. And it took me a long time to even get to the point where I felt comfortable calling myself an agency owner like I felt like my business was not legitimate for, you know, a number of reasons and the reasons don't really matter that much. But it's the fact is, yeah, I absolutely did get imposter syndrome when I started my agency and I still have imposter syndrome today. One thing I want oh, maybe quickly have a discussion is like cannon imposters and be a good thing, right, because it makes you very self aware of yourself. But also other people's time.

So going back to getting paid to do things. If I'm getting paid to speak at a conference and I don't have any imposter syndrome like, maybe that's not a good thing, right, because you're not going to be as aware of respecting others. Time on what not so could this maybe not be such a But I think, yeah, it could be a bad thing in certain situations if it's really affecting your mental health and making you question your life decisions. But just some extent, like, could this be a good thing?

Oh, I credit it to my success, To be totally honest with you. I don't think I would work half assed hard as I have. I've worked too, plus jobs for most my career, and I don't think I would have done that if I didn't have really bad imposter syndrome, where I'm like constantly trying to prove it to myself and other people that I can do this and that I can learn these things that I could teach other people. And I think this whole Internet thing and working so hard at that has been come across or come up from imposter syndrome as well. In that I'm trying to teach myself things and share my knowledge and reinforce my own knowledge. And so I think, honestly, my career would look so different if I didn't have imposter syndrome to be totally

blunt. Absolutely. Imposter Syndrome is a is a sign of vulnerability in acknowledging your imposter syndrome is embracing that vulnerability in allowing yourself to grow with it?

Totally. I think something that I've regarding vulnerability. I think for me I'm pretty open on the Internet about what I'm vulnerable about, about my mental health and when I'm struggling, and I think that actually makes people connect with you a lot better. And when you can connect with people you can teach better, you can mentor butter you, it improves a lot, and every single person that I've looked up to has had impossible syndrome, and when I think about it, it's because they were able to empathize with me and they were able Thio, understand what I was going through and give me advice to help me get pushed through those feelings when I was more junior. And I think that like, you're better teacher, you're when you can empathize. And you're a better mentor when you can empathize. And those were two really good qualities of senior developers.

So when it comes down to it, if we're gonna do some sort of logical connection here, senior developers would probably have a good senior. Developers probably have imposter syndrome where have experienced it at some point, but yeah,

absolutely. I agree. So we've talked a lot about imposter syndrome, are kind of experience with it and all of that. But what are some of the things that we have had in our career or winds essentially, that remind us that we belong here, that really validate how how we feel in this industry, Allie, want you kick this off?

Yeah, for me, it I think the top thing originally at least when I was early in my career, was getting my first performance review and it being super super positive and getting a big reason. All that and I think that that was really valid in again. For the first time, I was like, Oh, look, I'm actually pretty good at writing code and I've done a lot for this. But more recently it's definitely been t drink so many people to code and both online and in person and seeing them grow and their success. And I think that that's been so helpful for me, but also for yeah, it's been super, super helpful for me and just really great for knowing that the stuff that I'm saying has some impact and that people are able to learn from my past, too. So that's been the biggest validator for me. How

about you, Kelly? So mines also been, you know, putting out really great work and having people openly recognize our work. I actually I got an email last night. I've been I've been kind of in the downward spiral of imposter syndrome for another agency project. And the guy I was talking to about this sent me an email last night basically saying I just wanted a remind you again. Like I saw the headless commerce that you set up for yourself on your personal site. you do really great work. And I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that when you land this project, you're going to absolutely kill it. And just seeing that positive email come in. It was a huge breath of fresh air. And then I also replied, Thank you. I'm saying,

like you might need to send this like, four more times. I think we need to be better as a community giving a positive reinforcement. I don't think we're good enough at it. But if someone on your team or in your life is doing a great job in anything like, tell them please. Yes, exactly, especially in the development, feel like there's always the running joke that developers never get noticed until something breaks.

That's true. I've been trying recently to just GM people on Twitter that I think are doing great work and just being like, Thank you. This is really awesome and keep doing what you're doing because it's cool. I bet they, like, lose their bleep, their curse word with you. I want you to when you do that,

I'm still waiting for my d. M. So I

talked to you all so much, usually people that I know a little bit less. But you all are awesome too. You guys were all awesome.

I think my win was getting asked to speak at conferences because for a really long time had been putting out all of these blood posts and, you know, kind of getting over the fear of throwing my thoughts out into the void. And, um Then when I got asked to speak of my first conference, it was like, Oh, like people know who I am now and they like my work and they want me to share that with, you know, their community. So that for me was really a big win. But what about you, Lindsay?

So something that started happening few years ago, like maybe two years ago, is at work. I started getting directly requested to be on projects, which was incredibly validating, So people liked working with me. Clients liked working with me. Project managers liked working with me and and they were impressed with my work. So I actually recently got it a comment from my boss and he said, Hey, I was talking to the client and they said the reason why I was late to stand up is because I we got caught up talking about you and how we're happy with your work. And that was not. I mean, it made me tear up because I'm a stop. But it was very, very validating because when it comes down to it, being a developer isn't just about code.

It's being about. It's about being able thio, interact with people and communicate needs to people and get people's problems solved. So that, for me was incredibly validating. So

it's important to know, you know, we're discussing our winds here and how we, you know, this is a strategy for combating imposter syndrome, and this is something that I highly recommend everyone listening to this podcast that that you do yourself. And when you get these winds, write them down, take a screenshot of an email, you know, whatever it might be in, create a folder on your computer or, if you like going old school, prints it out and put it in an actual physical binder or something. And like I have, I have files saved on my computer that are just called for when I'm having a bad day so I can go through them and I'd be like, Okay, I actually d'oh, I do really great work. So this this will pass?

Yeah. So I 100% do that as well, especially with Screenshots Lots of student reviews, cause they do surveys about, you know, my performance is a teacher or whatever, and so that's for me is the feedback that I care about most. And so I have a lot of the received. I organized them all through notions that they're across computers in case I change one high tech. So I highly recommend this and it's huge when you're asking for a raise at work, too that you can pretty much just copy piece things or put those screen shots into that negotiation water, so I can't recommend it

enough. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say is ah, it's not just good for boosting your own morale, but it's you're gonna need this at some point when you go for a promotion, because e, I think we all forget that you actually have to work like to prove your value, to get a promotion like it's not just gonna be handed to you most of the time that you actually have to put together like a portfolio or at least have things to show your boss that they can then take the their boss to show you know, your value. So it say is a ton

of time. Yeah, it's well, it's nice to, because when it comes down to that, being an advocate for yourself is the best thing you can D'oh! And I don't want to say nobody's gonna stick up for you because that's not true. But when you're working, you have to be your own advocate. And we have, ah, lot of tendencies to be like, Oh, we're not good enough. And when you especially around promotion time, it's easy to be like I'm not good enough for this promotion. But even just like going back to that folder,

me like, Oh, that's why I'm good enough. Uh, this client said something super great about me And hey, uh, our clients make us money, So, uh, yeah, our client likes us and wants me on their project. Give me your think.

One of the hardest things, though in overcoming Imposter Syndrome because I don't believe personally you can overcome it. You could do things to kind of diminish it a little bit. But one of the hardest problems to get over is comparing yourself with others. I do this all the time. It's like, Oh, well, I might be doing cool stuff about Aly's doing even cooler stuff with Python and I want to do that And it's like That's not the way to toe overcome imposter syndrome, right? You shouldn't compare yourself to others. You should compare yourself to where you were yesterday.

Totally because, you know, I think about when I started teaching myself Web Dev I started teaching myself around Thanksgiving 2012 and I remember this because of where Iwas and my dad set up a dual boot Lennox you bun, to instance on my Windows computer. Because he's like, you want to do it on Lennox for promise. You don't want to do it on Windows, and I remember getting that all set up and figuring out how to do things, and I just think of how clueless I was back then and how I literally didn't know anything. And now I can actually talk proficiently about most of things I was clueless about. So I think when it comes down to it. It is tthe e journey and how far you've come. And there are so many people in this world who are doing better than I am. But who knows what their journey looks like? It's all very, very different.

We also take for granted that these journeys air easy, right? Thank you. See people. Okay. So for us specifically, I feel as though we all achieved a level of success quite early on in our careers were all young, right? And so people can see that and think that it was easy. And I can tell you that absolutely was not easy. I mean, for the 1st 2 years of my career to three years, I cried a lot of the time because I did not know what I was doing and it was really hard and like people only see the good things, and I think that all of us are pretty good. Ah, kind of discussing Also, the negative thing was online, and I think we need to be more open and honest about it.

Agreed. I think that people also tend Thio think that everybody starting from the same place and they're decidedly not. I see this a lot with students is that they're all at the boot camp together. And so, you know, I should be learning the super super fast because X person is learning it super, super fast. It's like, Well, that person also has a master's in math and has been coding since they were eight years old and you just started learning how to code two weeks ago. And so, yeah, you're not gonna be at the same place that there, but they've also been doing this for a lot longer, and so nobody's journey's gonna look the same. Everybody's is gonna be super super different. You can't compare yourself,

and I totally agree with Emma's point to that. You see people being successful on all the things that they're doing online, but you don't see how much goes into that. I think I posted yesterday that I, like, normally work from when I wake up to when I go to sleep almost every day, and I think that you often probably really to that as well that a lockers in behind the scenes that that isn't necessarily all over the injury.

We talked about that on our bloody episode. I think it was or side by side project, balancing out where we discussed what we give up to reap these kind of benefits, right? Like I don't have much of a social life. You know, Ali maybe doesn't sleep more than three hours a night. So thes things are hard earned and they're done behind the curtain that people don't typically

see. Yeah, people don't see. And, you know, you said, you know, you spent the 1st 2 years of your career like crying a lot. I I cannot tell you how much I have cried over this over this just imposter syndrome, and I've wanted to quit text so many times because I didn't feel good enough and like, I don't know. Okay, I need to stop talking about this because I'll start on. I I need to keep myself together for this podcast. But, you know, we who I spent a good chunk of the first half of my career as a web developer crying about how I was never going Thio make some money that I should,

because I was never gonna be good enough, So I was always gonna be the junior and I think back now. And I really just wanted to go and give that girl a hug because, yeah, that that was a very hard time in my life. And I'm really thankful that I pushed through it and had the support, but yeah, So with that with that being said, um, you know Kelly like because you wrote an entire block post on imposter syndrome. And so what have you benefited from being open about it?

I think a lot of it has just normalize the situation for me. We're all going through this in some form or another. Whether you're well, you have to experience two years of experience or you have 20 years of experience. Imposter syndrome is always going to rear its ugly head in some form and in being open about it and discussing these kinds of situations that have come up where you're struggling, there is somebody out there who will very much just be like, Yes, I also struggling with this or I did struggle with this. And this is how I got past it.

Yeah. Being open, I can't. They're gonna be maybe one or two people who are a jerk But when it comes down to it, most of the people who you wantto interact with have dealt with it at some point, and being open and vulnerable about it has probably been one of the most helpful things in my career cause I was not open about my imposter syndrome the first year, and that's why I cried a lot. But once I opened up about it, I was like, Oh my goodness, this person who has had 5678 years of experience also feels this way. I'm not alone here and this is actually normal, and it made me come to terms with those feelings. You know, it's almost ah really therapeutic Thio just share it and realize that you are not alone. Everybody who is like every single person who you look up to has that feeling to some degree

exactly. And on that note, we're going to discuss one of our listener wins. So if you wanna have your wind featured, subscribe to our newsletter. We have a form in there for you to submit your win, and this week's wind goes to Cecilia, who just graduated from the full staff software engineering boot camp at Georgia Tech and landed her first job as a junior software developer. So congratulations, Cecilia. Emma, what is your win this week? So my team on coding coach has been doing a really amazing job trying to get our full platform, you know, built with with our database and r and all of that stuff being set up and they're making a ton of progress. So I just want to give them a quick shot up for their win on making progress. Awesome. Lindsay, what about you?

So, uh, last episode I talked about my engagement pictures, and I want to say that I survived my 106 heat index for my engagement shoot. It was so hot. Yeah, it was. So if you are not in America, that's about 41 degrees Celsius. So it is very hot. Yeah, they

did. You look that up, or did you actually know what the conversion waas?

No, I looked it up because I had I had friends that I wanted to tell how hot it was. And they're like, Oh, goodness, that is very hot. Can't believe you were outside, but it was super perfect because we had a cold front come through and right, literally the moment that she shot the last picture. It started raining, and it felt it was nice because it didn't rain on us. But it was also nice because it finally cooled off when we were driving back home. It went from 106 to 73 degrees, which is 41 degrees toe like 23 or 24 degrees Celsius. So I also looked that up. I think watch may be wrong, but so, Kelly, what about your win?

So I started my own online store because I build these stores for my clients. That's by day to day job. Why not run my own? So I have been putting a bunch of products in the store with the developer jokes that I often post on Twitter and Kelly. You're not funny, though. I know. Sorry, guys, you know, I even say in the description like these are really bad developer jokes, but for whatever reason, people are still buying the products, so it's really great when they buy a product of like that has my bad code on it because everyone's walking around drinking coffee with my bad code, and it makes me feel really good about myself. You know what the best part is? A year?

Bad code is everyone else's bad. Coby is away. All right. Bad code. That's right. Ali, What is your win?

Yes. So I smoke a code land this past week, and it was the most nervous I've ever been for a talk by, like, 800 times because I was sharing my real story and sharing a lot of personal information and how I felt about harassment and all that stuff, and I mean it through it. And I gave my full talk, and I didn't cry on stage. So that was a big one for me.

That is awesome. And with that, we just want to thank you all for listening. Today. We hope that our our conversation about our imposter syndrome maybe kind of validated how you're feeling and made you feel a little bit better. Like you're not alone. And we're looking forward to seeing you next time. Oh, and one more thing. Make sure you post on Twitter, you subscribe, and we're going to be sending one of our listeners on Twitter some stickers. Who doesn't totally. Vickers.

Make sure to subscribe on and breed us on your podcast. Host of choice so that you know about our new episodes that come every Monday. See you next week.