there's something about it. I've got a super strong chip on their shoulder.

I don't know if I totally

have that, you know, had a pretty good life. So I don't know if I have enough of a chip to be at the super Super Top. Nor do I necessarily desire that. Like the mountain gets smaller as you go to the top. I'd rather be with some homies

and have a good time. Uh, alright. What's up, you sexy beast? It's your boy. Never late a k A rabbi can lose a K a. No Cagan. In today's episode, I talked with Neville Mondor from copyrighting course dot com. That's with two K's. Neville is one of my best friends in the world and is Hill Arias. He's also an Eagle Scout. Ladies, if you don't laugh three times in this episode, hit me up and I will Venmo you one buck. In this conversation,

you're gonna learn three big things. Numero uno how life is way better than you realize and tactics to help you enjoy it more. Number two really interesting ways Never learns implements things from unexpected people in Places. Number three unconventional business things that help make over $100,000 using Google docks. How he schedules with customers. You're gonna learn these three things and have a bunch of fun listening to this episode. Enjoy Quick plug. If you're in an online business and like making more money, you sumo dot com. That's it. It's the easiest and most affordable tool to collect, sent and monetize your business if you like email if you like making money. If you like doing less work, go check out Sumo Dotcom Shut out section. All right, Special Shout out to listener branded Pierce alot of crown dot coffee.

This honestly made my whole holidays. He randomly recognized me at an Apple store. It was the highlight of my holiday, So I want to recognize him and other listeners like yourself. So treat me that you listen to show and let me know your name and your all, and I'll pick one of you to feature in my next episode. Shout out All right, So for anyone who doesn't know which is all of you, Mrs Neville Madura Hey, he runs nev blawg dot com Really? The 60,000 popular Indian blawg in America on. He also writes cooperating course dot com with two K's. Yes, and then you make over six figures. We're gonna not to the number teaching people how to use words.

What if it was like six figures, but of, like, Venezuelan dollars? It's white file dot com

Oh, that's one of

the ones I'm like, oddly

very proud of. Well, we could go on. But I guess one thing I wonder with you is that you have such a unique personality. You're funny as shit like you're literally the Indian. Larry David. I think a lot of people, including myself, wonder like one. You're always happy, but I think with you sometimes I'm like, Oh, he has such unique ideas And he's so humorous about a lot of things, just why you don't try to even go to the next level. You do copyright, which is great. I think you've owned it,

but I wonder if you could do like TVs or YouTube channels or something that has, like, a wider audience either around business or just being humor in general. Yeah, I don't know. I've got

that a lot from a lot of people are like, I think you could be bigger. I'm like, Okay, I think I have, Ah, good trajectory of where I'm going. I don't think I've ever wanted to be at the very top top. And I think one of the reasons was I used to be a pretty prolific reader in, like, elementary school, middle school and stuff, Probably more than I am now and read all the books, and at some point you start running out of books. Do you read more, more obscure books? So I'd read these,

like biographies of like, Jackie Chan, Jay Leno, David, all these different autobiographies, biographies, books about him, everything.

And it kind of realizing

that people at the very, very top of feel like Michael Jordan were talking about earlier. Those people are maniacally competitive, like by nature. There's something about it. I've got a super strong chip on their shoulder.

I don't know if I

totally have that, you know, had a pretty good life. So I don't know if I have enough of a chip to be at the Super Super Top. Nor do I necessarily desire that. Like the mountain gets smaller as you go to the top. And I don't want to be at the very pinnacle. I'd rather be with some homies and have a good time. I think also the thing of going toe like India all the time. We used to go every two years or so, and you just see, like people that are on just by the very nature of where they were born, into a life that is not going to get better.

I think it's more

about your circumstances and what you make of it. I kind of learned that lesson early on that like you can choose to be happy or you can choose to be set on. And I think a lot of people over here they grew up in, like these air condition environments and complain and Facebook believe who's who. Hard as they're using a trillion dollar infrastructure in an air conditioned house living on the 17th story of a building that in the last 100 years would have been possible

so most people would assume. I mean, maybe I'm speaking for myself. I don't were you talking about me in that apartment building, by the way, you're 11 11 slums, but I think most people want to achieve like the ultimate in the best. And I mean, we're still gonna die no matter what the end. But you're like, Hey, I'm actually content. So I wonder how you get into that mind

set is, like, totally content. Like there are times I'm like, fucking you work harder. But that's is this normal. That's a healthy level of it. There's a great documentary, Super Mitch about Shep Gordon. And remember, actually met this guy before I even knew who he was, and me and Brent were hanging out with them. He was doing some books. So for

him, it was

like a cooler, older guy. Must have been my 60 65 I don't know. And then all of sun, all these people start surrounding him. Die. Oh, my God, Shep Gordon. I was like, Whoa, this guy's like a somebody. And I watched this documentary about him, produced by Mike Myers, the guy you know in the Austin Powers films, and it's called Super Mensch. And he was the guy the manager for all the top acts in the seventies and eighties.

You get a really interesting quote of like, I don't think that ultra amounts of fame has brought anything positive to anyone that gets it. I was like, Whoa, that's a hell of a big statement coming from this guy. I think it's true. Like once you get you start getting so recognizable that you have to seclude yourself. And I think it just drives you mad at some point, I've never wanted to become that famous. It was like a price you're willing to pay. And I'm not willing to pay that price

that make sense. Yeah, I guess. How do you figure out how how you want to go?

I'd rather be reached and well known. Okay? Yeah, that is that Bill Murray quote I told you about on Howard Stern. Howard Stern was like, Bill, what does it feel like to be rich and famous? And Bill Murray, with his little eclectic style, looks back, is like, just try being rich.

Yeah. I like that really thing I've ever heard. Like, why do you need to be famous? Just be rich. What do you think other people are doing? We've been friends 10 plus years and a lot of people, you know, like they're not as happy as you.

What are we doing wrong? One of my friends was just like, I think it's a chemical thing and my answer is I don't know if that's totally true, But I also don't know. I think some people focus on a lot of negatives all the time, or they watch shows that I think make them sad and stuff like that. They really, like, surround themselves with media and stuff and friends that just are sad.

Well, I think there's different ways of it for me. I think it's nice to have conversations. We have meaningful conversations versus just like let's talk about the weather. You see the sports game or how's it work stuff? You know, I think that, uh, who knows? I do think we default to the negative. That's a really interesting. I think if you back up, maybe this

answers your question a little better. I've talked about with you a lot this already, but the concept that I want to die at 85 if I'm not dead by then, I'm going to do it. And so a lot of people that's suicidal, I'm like, No, it's this once 49 years in the future for me. I'm 35 now So my 85th birthday November 17 2067. You come to my death party if you want. Let's assume that I don't get hit by a bus and this is the plan. Well, if I had that much time what I want to do with it. I think when you break down your life into a very finite thing like that, which is scary for some people, this is like this is going to happen like you're gonna die. And so if you look at it in that finite kind of terms,

just like what I want to fill this life with, and it's a way easier question when you know it's just going to be the limited thing. So if you break down your life like that, which I have done already, I think it just makes it way easier. I think it's a very helpful exercise to pinpoint when you're going to die. So what things you want to do before you die? I have kids because I like freedom, like having do whatever I want. But then I would say this quote to you is like after 40. What else is there

like? If you're not gonna have kids like like for me. I'm just kind

of like we've done a lot of stuff in our life. We've been very lucky to have the means in time. You will do like all sorts of cool things and

beyond a couple more years. What else is there? Do you know? It's funny. I was thinking for a long time, kids or just what you do when you're bored, like I got nothing else to do in there. I will have kids and then we'll have to, like, complain about them for the next few years. 20 year hobby here. But I think also recently had this kind of change my perspective, where it's more of like a new project. It's like another type of startup or business or company, But it's

probably more crazy. Don't have any friends with kids like you and Austin in New York, Some people don't know anyone with kids, and so I really I really want kids. Being single sucks, blah, blah, blah, But they don't see the other side of it with his married people are so great to be single. So it's just like it's like the grass is always greener on the other side and like, whatever you got right now is pretty good. You're

always positive is last time. You're sad. And I guess the things I was curious about is when you're sad, what you do to get out of it or stay in it with less in your bun

bun e I mean, look, I get sad, right? But that's normal. I don't get, like, depressed or anything like that. Just get sad. Didn't like, huh? I need to take this business to the next level. Something like that. No. Think about it. But my brain is dumb. Like I can't retain a lot of information like the Ram and my brain is very low,

like 10 K brand. So I have to write it down on a sheet of paper and say, OK, what's the problems like? I want more money. And then, like, Okay, how do I do that and then break it down? And that usually makes me not Saturday. This is something happened recent? Well, maybe I write down all time. That's why uses like paddle the time. This makes me very happy. Tha show sponsored by Apple.

I think people think in their head too much and don't get it on paper. That's a really problem. You just go in circles. Yeah. So

when's listen, You're jealous of someone?

I get competitive. If I see someone, like maybe in my field, that's doing something that I was like, Fuck. I wish I could have done that. I get competitive about

it. Sure Remember, like, six months you were having dinner and I was, like, whining as usual. What you said specifically, I thought was really insightful was It's not about stop complaining is just, like, just be okay that you're gonna be sad for a bit trying to avoid it or not do it. You just go be sad. It's okay.

I think some people they start telling people on their Facebook or their friends like, I think you're guilty of it. Quite a bit, actually of like, you get so worked up. Whenever you're mad, they start talking about it complaining. Is this like No. Was always sad. It's just, like just be sad for a bit. It's okay. Like in two hours, you're gonna get over this. Yeah, or we just make fun of you there every one time me, you and J R were working out and you were like, just motor mouth about some complaining

shit. And I was like, I'm Noah millionaire a hot girlfriend and have a great life in a company. But I'm still sad. And then you just laughed in your life as a good thing. You're happy. I think

you just take some time.

But you know what's

crazy for every person on the planet? For the most part, the same things make you happy. You

name them. Probably connection with another person. Yeah,

family hanging out with your buds. Bhola drink once in a while. Yeah. Getting out, Providing for people cooking for someone like, you know, like different things make different people happy.

But it's essentially the same crap. That's true. It's very universe. That's where I

learned early on, especially like even in middle school on his reading those books I was like all these books roughly the same goddamn thing. Car save money. Hang out your family

like God. Look, it's the same crap is the same recipe. For the most part, I think one thing that's really fascinated by you is that you're exploring a lot of curiosities, and I think that leads to your happiness like music. So I'm gonna play the piano and guitar and start taking lessons like I think I'm trying to think about for myself and for people listening how they can take your curiosity or how you approach it. And I think, how that generates happiness.

Why do projects all the time? I talked to our good buddy Sam part of the hustle about this all the time. And he's just like, I just think that you have different brain chemistry. That's his argument. Sometimes that might be true. I don't know. I don't know how to make people happier, I think reading other people's stories, indulging your own curiosity, being busy. I really think the meaning of life is that you are a self replicating organism that started from like a couple of amino acids. Every self replicating organism that's managed to survive and procreate has resulted in us, and we're no different than like a little bacterium and the point of the middle of your life. So just distract yourself in, have fun, that's it.

And we have that luxury right now of living in this day and age of not having to work so hard. So I think one interesting way to be happier is experience the really crap and drudgery drudgery with hardware, say drudgery of life that most other people have in the world. And so for me that was going to India for two years and seeing that like I'm so hardened because, like, I can see a three year old with his ribs sticking out, running through traffic with no parents and be like, whatever, that's just normal. That's just something. I see it. It doesn't affect me at all where someone else from here? Because it was a cushy life that break their heart. I think there's something about understanding how hard people worked in the past just to stay alive, like in 19 twenties, like there was a campaign slogan for Presidency,

where it was like two chickens in every pot. That meant that your kids don't starve to death because people used to starve to death in right like they would not have enough to eat. They would get really skinny and then they would perish. That happened, like, just 80 years ago over here and still happens across the world, and I think people forget that so

easy to like. What I wanna do with my life is like a bitch. That is such a luxury. You have to be even your parentsgeneration

to be able to pick what you like. Like that is such a foreign concept to a lot of people. Yeah, they don't get to choose within, like they get to choose, like, what keeps food on table every

day. So the takeaways complain less. Just go be busy and have fun, I guess. I think if someone said

they're gonna be sad, No,

I think one thing that last week was I spent a one day just working the whole day. It was really fucking satisfying. I think that's great. Yeah, I think there's these times you're like nothing could just, like, go create something that helps other people and you feel good about doing it has only did all day. And I was like, I just more often Yeah, working is awesome.

I get that in a couple ways, like these little micro projects, which is like learning in your song on the piano. I don't know how to play. And at first It's, like, really hard. They practice a couple times, you know. Whoa. Got it. It's pretty cool. Writing articles, block posts. That's super fun for me. I've been doing it for free since before people made money online. So I just like doing it.

And I like the process of coming up with an idea kind of formulating it, changing around, moving around. And by the end, I'm like, God damn fucking article. I hate it. But then you put it out there like nice. Sometimes you're like, Yeah, now is whatever. Sometimes that was a winner. Sometimes it sucks, but like that's all just part of the process. And I think that's like a micro project putting out blood posts and stuff like that.

I want to go back just in second. You as a kid, you read a lot of books. Tons, were you loner and all are no,

not at all had a lot of friends,

and I think

I read a much wider breath of stuff than most people. Most people weren't reading biographies of Nikola Tesla sixth grade, and I would go to the library stacks because I'd read so many books, pick out rain the books. I would literally cover my eyes, poke out a book and grab it, and I would have to sit there and read it. I could speed read it or skip over chapters. They sucked, but I would have to read the entire book. And I remember picking up this male mid life crisis. But this must have been in high school, early high school, and it was like I saw into the future and she gave all these examples of different people and why they had midlife crisis is so and I feel like when they feel like they missed out where they could have been something else. But they had all these responsibilities not take care of. That was very impactful to me. And so how did that back to you?

What do you think that led you to start doing? I think it made me realize, like, once you get married and have Children, that's kind of when those things that's hard to get out off. So if I could prolong that and have a much selfish fund, as I'd like when I'm younger, then when I have those responsibilities, I will be much more likely to enjoy those responsibilities than if I was like, Oh, man, it could be going out every night. But whereas now I've done that and I naturally have gotten tired of it more so, Like when it comes time to, like, be burning down responsibilities live in one place. Okay,

One thing that you've done, we talked about earlier, and you've always and I think you learn from more unique places in most people. I think a lot of people are you do. And I think that's something that most for I think other people can really take away from that, which is, you know, a lot people like, Well, I read this guy's book and, you know, maybe I listen this block, but I think you actually go out of your weight toe, learn from, like, really unique places and people. And then you make a big effort around.

You can talk about that. Yeah, one. I take notes. That's the difference. I take notes. That is absolutely the difference. Because how many will you two views of your watched thousands right now? Do you remember much of it? And of course. But I do because I take notes on it. And so I have a better memory because of that. YouTube, like the greatest learning platform in the history of anything like if your ankle hurts, you should have to go to a doctor or being Indian. Just ask a doctor friend.

Now with YouTube, you could watch all these doctors tell you what to do.

It's incredible, and that applies to some different things. There's all these like if you type in billionaire interview on YouTube, you'll find a time and you can watch Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger, Market Andresen, Steve Jobs. You watch dead people talk like it's crazy and you can watch them tell you all their secrets right there for free. And to me, that is just so flabbergasting that you could do that or type of Earl night. Gil. Yeah, he's my favorite. Watch anything about Earl Nightingale. Specifically, the strangest secret. I would say you could learn from all these people,

and if you sit there and actually take notes on some of these videos, you'll start to compile like a pretty good amount of stuff. You know, you're the average, the top five people you hang around. I think it's more year, the average of the top five influences you have in the kind of people around. And if all day I'm listening to Mark Andrews and talk or Steve Jobs or Felix are any of these people right? Those are huge influence is obviously and anyone could do that. You live in bum Fuck Ohio and still do the same thing. You don't have to be in Silicon Valley now to hear that. 10 years ago you did and that

crazy. I think that's really amazing. I think I speak for myself. I'm looking for that. Next thing there's gonna be this next thing out there that will eventually I'll find it. I'll give you some answers to the questions I have, but I think your point is great. It's like there's actually amazing people out there already that you have access to. If you just go put in a little effort, do you drilling? Just search random, or do you have certain

people? You look for certain people like remember, I discovered Sam Ultimate like I knew who he was like the Y Combinator kid, and he's like a kid, so let's take 45 minutes to watch this he's telling it to me and everyone else for free. So

besides the no King Presents podcast, which is your number one show? Of course. What other channels on YouTube

or podcasts do you recommend? I love that. A 16 z podcast That is amazing. Particular. Benedict Evans shout out to our boy Andrew. He's pretty good on it to also androgens Blawg in terms of, like, start up stuff like has just above the rest killer. And then, um, I hate to say it the recode podcast with Kara Swisher, where I'm ambivalent on her when she does get a lot of access and good guests, including Elon Musk. Besides her being a little bit annoying, sometimes I will say it was a pretty good idea. Yeah, I've seen every Elon musk interview ever,

probably 10 times each. I really liked Steve Jobs. I think he was like this last of an era of ah CEO that can get away with saying some of the stuff, he says. That was pretty interesting.

You could

even watch like a Lee Iacocca speech. Like the guy from the Christ. They're kind of exact gym gm. Yet Tim Ferriss has a lot of good stuff. No Kagan podcast

you recommend. Then YouTube. You told me a guy today.

Graham Graham Bensinger. Ben's Bessinger Bensinger. He's a sports interview. Just started bringing a camera like events and interviewing these people. He has the best interviews for sports stars, and now he's branching out to like non sports. People think interviews, interesting people. But they had a Mike Tyson podcasts, and I've never seen my Tyson open up like that shack. But you gotta watch that one to the shack interview. Amazing. I don't know what this guy just like ask the question is very non threatening and just just the fuck up and let them talk. And whenever they stop talking, he continues to stop talking just lets them keep going. But yet you didn't learn a lot from that because he's interviewing the top people in the field or people who have, like,

fallen from glory and stuff like that. Listen, a couple of Lance Armstrong punk ass recently, pretty good. Yeah, it's interesting because he was, like, defamed to that whole like doping thing. Whatever. I feel like he's free to say anything he wants, and there's something interesting about that It wasn't a lot of Joe Rogan stuff, particularly just like background stuff like Tony Hinchcliffe or something like that. They're just horsing around and being stupid. Don't pay too much attention on the comedy of Guesses in the background vacuuming crap thing. Joe Rogan. Matthew Walker Podcast? No.

So my buddy Eric Southwell, shut out! Uh, I'm gonna listen to it. Basically, the whole point of high is just sleep more. I like listening to a front and 1/2 was amazing. That was like So I've been way more aware of, like, how much sleep I'm actually getting or not. Yeah, what do you recommend? He said 78 hours. What was fun or interesting about his podcast? Is that everything that's problematic and earth? He's like sleep would care of that eyes like, you know, cancer sleep fixes it. But it was

funny, like people still want to be like, well, a product. Do I need to sleep? It's like you just get more sleep. I don't know what everyone,

but

that is a simple answer to a complex problem. That's why we even thought it right now is humorous. That was the joke, right? That it was such a simple answer, but like that is the answer. I think people just wanted to be more complicated.

I mean, I think it almost comes back to what you're saying about life like it's pretty simple, like work on things. Have good friends

to care yourself. My favorite. I've told you this one before. But is this old Jewish rabbi was on his deathbed and he had all these disciples and his disciples are lined up next to him in terms of the sharpest all the way down to the most up to dumb guy, the dumb guy goes, Ah, hey, can you ask the rabbi with the secret of life is And then the next Martus guy asked, response the next guy and it goes down chain. And finally smartest kid goes Rabbi, what is the secret of life? And the rabbi goes, he thinks about It is like life is like a river. So the smartest guy whispers it down in the next guy. Life's like a river that's got a life like a river, and it gets out of the dumb guy is like life is like a river. What does that mean?

That it was for it all the way back down. And Rabbi, what does it mean? That life is like a river? And the rabbi goes,

It's not like a river I e. I really like that just shows us like if I don't do it, don't take it so seriously I e don't know why I like I don't even think that makes that much sense. But to me, they have a perfect sense. May make a lot of sense. I read this book Very Jack Cornfield, Yeah, so after the ecstasy, the laundry. So basically, it's a book about, like all these people that find enlightenment or how do you get toe, you know, the next stage of life. But then you start to do the laundry eyes. It it was good of reflect on that. And

there's pride in those little things in life. I think that's a big deal, that there's that one general. Whatever Rose has always make your bed. I've always made my bed in the morning. I'm pretty good about it. But there is some pride in taking that small little thing, no matter how insignificant and fixing it up through your own efforts and then it's done

sometimes, like when I like big, my better. It's something I think I'm thinking someone's watching to me. Makes me have prided myself to take care of that, something like, You know, you see trash on the ground. I'm like, Just pick it up, Pick it up I

got that from Boy Scouts. You probably did, too. I think. I think that's where we got it. I was trying to make every place I go a little better, and I think that came from Boy Scouts in terms of like, If I see a piece of trash is right next to a garbage can, I'll pick up the soda can and sticking in. Yeah, it's not that big of a deal. It takes very little time. I don't care about germs. I'll be fine, right? So I tried do that as much as I can. If

the soda cans really far from address, maybe that sometimes it's satisfying to seeing your work resolved. Do you do projects and I feel like you

don't have, like, a lot of curiosity stuff. I play piano, I play guitar, I play them all time and at home. Yeah, I love watching, like YouTube interviews. I do the little projects all the time. I don't know if you necessarily do a lot of that

stuff. You're like Sonny and share. You know, I remember the last

time I saw you really happy and engaged. Doing stuff when you're fixing up your Miata. Now, that's funny. You're building stuff, Ian. Shut up. Trump's chuckle, MBA podcasts. You're going over to the garage and being manly and fixing shit up.

No, I think what it is, or what I've noticed lately is just like, what am I excited to be doing on, like, getting better exploring those?

I remember one time you were really excited about the stupidest good. I like making fun of Noah

like this. Oh, yeah. You're having

fun doing the bike, right? Yeah.

You do events

more than projects.

Yeah. I, like bring

people together, do a lot of events. That's something I admire about

you. Remember, you made sumo gum on caffeine in it or something? Yeah, And I remember I

just thought it was a hair brained, like Kramer

like idea or something like that. And

then you actually made it and he had some woman

make a batch of it, like chef, remember if it wasn't good,

but you did it. And you were so happy about that. Your smile on your face. Just like crazy Earl. A little boy

or some like that was fucked up on caffeine. I already But I remember thinking like, that's

the kind of, like, interesting exploration kind. Like Richard Feinman. Like, Like just curiosity of just, like stuff.

How do you feel about shaping the future or what do you think about it? For yourself? Sometimes that hold you back sometimes excites me about like, all right, people are doing this crazy stuff. Like, how do I do that myself

as well? Do you really want to do that work? You see, like alone? Must space exercise? Do you really want to be doing that work or you just kind of with the recognition

for it? No. Maybe there's something about the second part.

Yeah, I think a

lot of people like I wish I

could do that. But just, like, do you really know what that

involved, like you willing to sacrifice what it takes to actually have that? Yeah. You know, it

must has frequently been quoted He says it all days. Like I don't think it's fun to be me, as people think. And I believe him. So, yeah, I don't think you have to change the world. Bill Gates's first company was. They make those sensors that track how many cars go over referred lights and shit like that s so they all started off as dumb things. Apple started off same way they may like a hacking device or something like that. Never phoned, but they were trying to change the world. In fact, it was almost like a criminal. You think about it? Yeah. They're just scratching a curiosity,

making some front projects. People always try to change the world. And I'm like, What do you mean when we say that we want to make an impact, I might know. Define what you mean with numbers. They can't do it.

Someone said it to me. Well, it's like, What do you procrastinating on? Like where you spend your procrastination and that's maybe something that you should be working on. So I think it's great. I'm gonna think more about curiosity.

Yeah. When Ellen must talks about it, he's I'm not trying to change the world. It's just like they're trying to make a rocket that has a better specific impulse than the previous generations of rockets. That's a hard engineering problem. That's a number they can peg their impact on the world. To me, most people don't

have that one thing from me. I wanted Space six. A friend of ours got Ah tour there. The two things are most amazing about going there. Besides, like what he's doing on stuff was Number one was their mission. But I feel like I'm trying to colonize Mars so that we can have a future in our society. I thought that was just so powerful. And how that can relate to my company. And sumo are other people's businesses were like Holy shit, like, Why are you doing this?

I think my wife, for a lot of stuff I do is like one I was writing for free already. My procrastination was doing stupid articles online, and now I somehow get paid for it. Yeah.

Okay, So speaking of stupid articles, So you're wise that you just like writing. I mean, it's something

I've always done, and I probably will do for free, no matter What?

Well, one thing about that I want it. Oh, actually, whatever happened in the show was your Google docks when you do your calls. So I started doing that in the past month, and it's good informed how I've, like, interact with people. So explain. Basically, with suma ride dot com, which is the charity bike rides we put on one of the donation levels people donate, and then part of the donation is all chat with him for an hour about their business, and I would do these calls, and about half of them were great and half of them were draining. And they're great people.

All of them were nice. And I appreciate the donation. That was just like, there's just no point it doesn't help them doesn't help me. And they forget everything. Yeah, they're like, Okay, that was just an hour. And they think I'm gonna do something magical, which I won't. And so I was talking with you about, and I was like, How can I improve my consistency and the likelihood that when I have a call, it's fucking great and so two things that I change based on our conversation and also like, I think you do a great job.

That's like how to make it interesting for yourself or how to make it fun for yourself. So two things that did is that now, before the calls, I say, What's one thing we can finish? Our talk about the silver bullet? Just tell me one thing that we could walk away from this call that will change your life or make this call the best you have this year. And so that one has been good, cause they'll send me 10 questions like which one? And those picked that one? And the second thing that you've done a recommend, which I do now is the Google docks. So I think a lot of women do consulting calls or when you're helping someone, it's like, Yeah, let me just give you some theories.

Yeah, let me use some suggestions or samples. And so now when I do the calls, I'm like, let's get on video and let's have a ghoul doc and you have your one question and let's go over the answers that were gonna put in there for

you to go do videos crucial. Yeah, I 50 old clients video But you can tell what they're into and what they're not like. I can see in their eyes. On what you should do this. And I'm like, Okay, I could clearly tell you're not gonna do this

on their like, Well,

when? And then we get to the real heart of it, right? Yeah. And the Google doc is this. So you could write shit

down because you forget all that shit. Do you know what I've realised by doing these calls? Have had a few people really like homework. So I think they like the Tanja Bility of having a document. And I think we're so conditioned from our youth, like, Hey, here's homework for you. Go do the like. I have homework. They do. They love accountability. Yeah, they want someone to go do it.

Well, they also probably already respected by Are you? That's why they're paying for it. And so, like, they don't want to let you down. Yeah, and they also paid a lot of money for it, right? Didn't pay. 10 bucks is a lot more more zeros on that number. And so they take it more seriously. Yeah, I love consulting calls. So long as there's a tight box around what they can do, they can't email me before. After Ellis is an update. We meet as certain time. If they miss it, their payments gone. I keep it.

Really? Yeah, because

if you do, if you block out 3 to 4 for me I did not do that for someone else. So it's lost revenue for me. So yeah, I keep

the money. I think it's what you know, what they show up next time they're always on time about. They're always on time. Well, it's one of these things that in today's economy and a lot of the online businesses like skill scale, seal scale, like, How do you automate? How do we not be human interaction? I was respect about you that you're like, Actually, I like learning a lot by interacting with a lot of the customers and people who read your stuff that keeps you sharp at this call on the guys. He showed me his only business, and I did this spreadsheet and I had him send the questions I said, Well, what's the most important question?

The most boring question was like, How do we go from $100,000 business to a 1,000,000. I'm like, dude, we're talking for one hour. I like that. Be pretty fucking impressive. One hour we can figure that out. And after the call, I felt disappointed, and I felt like it was good. Maybe he loved it, but I don't think it was

amazing. Did you The spreadsheet on this one or

was this just call? So it was a call with the Google doc, but I realized, and this is maybe something for other people to do, but more. What I did was like, All right, how could I have made that call fucking way better? Because I just felt like afterwards I was like, Yeah, I just kind of getting a lot of random Sze different tactics, but they weren't organized. Like, how could I have a framework for my calls to make him effective based

on the question? So you want a suggestion for that? I would tell him that, like, Okay, 100,000 to a 1,000,000. That's just one hour. This is not realistic. What can I do to make you an extra $50,000 this month? You're coming out from a little bit of a disadvantage because you're coming at it from a much more general stands. Very broad, yes, whereas mine is copyright were doing copyrighting. So I say, What will make you the most money? By the end of these consoles that you and is just like, is it going to be an email sequence that we send out to your list like a sail as gonna be revamping a sales page?

We kind of quickly go through the options, and it's really clear that, like they have a lot of success selling via email and I'll look at it and Billy Oh, you're doing a bad job. Let's rewrite this email and literally will send it like that day the promotion and they'll be like, You know, we made your feet Times 20

back. That's a good point to your suggestion is, try to find something more digestible, taken specific. What

can we say? Specifically D'oh! For example, Let's say maybe they needed to hire two more sales people like in all your company's. You hired two more sales people and it totally did the trick. Then you say, How are you gonna find salespeople? Get on Facebook right now And ask your friends that you will give him $1000. They could find you a sales person. And of course, you know that's gonna result in some action and stuff like that, and homework would be. I want you to hire two salespeople next two weeks, and that would definitely make their money back.

Hey, you ever getting I get nervous. Sometimes I only know what my experiences and my learnings have been. Get her something, fuck up their shit. Everything about that. Yeah. Okay, so this email and then, like, there were a lot of money to Yeah, just talk

to you for a hour. I think that's why I'm very strict on the requirements on like, What's the one thing I can help them with? Because if everyone's expectations are lined up, if the expectations are there of, we're going to get this email promotion done by the end of this hour that everyone's happy. But if they're just, like, help me get my business to a $1,000,000 that's their expectation. But then, at the end of the phone, call it just like I just got to me. Noah like that's cool. But

It's a point. Yeah, yeah. Then the expectations

are a lot of walk, and then they're kind of just like,

Yeah, I was happy with myself for trying to take the time to understand. How do I put my thoughts into a better organization If I'm meeting someone who's trying to grow their business, like, what are better ways of going through the steps of it? And so I was like, Oh, well, actually, here's the steps. And now let me organize what is really, really important. And then I was trying to apply them to my own businesses first. So I have these, like, 10 questions. It was like number one was What is your goal?

Number two was just like, Where does 80% of your money come from? Basically a question. Now, if I meet fuel, I'm not gonna obviously help everyone get two million, but I don't fucking know, But it's interesting. Just organize it better

do. Concerts are great. I learned a lot. I feel like some of them. I feel like I learned way more than they get. Sometimes I'm like, man, I should refund on their money and

you give them money. I think there's something interesting about this love, but I'm not gonna keep flattering you. But you do have a few things, I think one. I think you try to, like answer your questions for yourself. I think a lot of people like if you read books or go online and you two, there are people there like Don't do consulting. Don't do one on one charge monthly or get subscriptions. And I think you've also identified what works for you and you stuck with that and you evolve within things that well. I tried

the monthly and was just like, This clearly isn't the best. Here's the worst feeling in the world. We're the last 20 minutes of a console. You're struggling for what to help them with. Anyway. What else can you help with in the lake? Well, I could look at my home page on like like use it. Tell the energy and you got the call and yours like that's not good. And so if I wrote them in and kind of force them into that

monthly think,

you know, sometimes I don't need help from me every week.

What other insights are things? Have you evolve with your business.

One thing I've learned is like I think most people, especially rich people, they end up making a lot of their money outside of their core competency, which I kind of start to realize is more and more often. So, for example, a lot of people like that. We know they'll have a business, but they'll make most of their money because they, like, invested a new version like that, right? They've invested in something small somewhere else, and that just brought in a lot of money. So, like for you, you can run sumo and stuff like that and then invested in real estate.

And ultimately you may make more money from real estate or something else. I think what really works in the public eye. So what, like gurus and I could be accused of being a guru, Of course, to I think what they tell you is sometimes not the really good stuff. So, for example, when something really works, Joe Sugarman he talked about the 1 800 number credit card ordering back in the sixties or seventies. He was the 1st 1 to do it is working so well that he just shut up about it and all his friends. Really? Hey, Sugarman were senior ads and popular science. How are those credit card number things working? He's like,

Ah, man, it's rough or panels money. No one's fucking buying bubble. But in reality, he was fucking raking it in, and he kept it quiet as long as he could, until A T and T published a case study about him being like this guy's making, like $3 million a month, he's got to be careful to follow, like common advice like that. My skeptical of like a lot of these gurus with cool planes and cars and stuff like that, some of its good. So

that's not you also do like learning from people online. And so I think it's kind of challenging. How do you filter what's real and what's not

real? I think you just kind of tell I don't know.

That's a good question. Well, I would think that's what intelligence is, but I think we also had good backgrounds. You're Jewish, you know. But I think intelligence, to some extent is filtering like who to go ask her questions from who to listen to and then how to make your own decision with those inputs. I think

a big influence in beings, a restaurant, a very tight knit community. There's a lot of business owners, and I got to, like, get mentor ship from a lot of them. And I remember the first guy was one of my friends. His dad owned a big real estate company, and I was like, What do you do? Ask him in 10th grade? Because I asked my parents, I'm like, How can he donate this much money to our church when, like, it's like more money than our house costs?

And so I asked him, and he was like, Yeah, come hang out at the office And so he paid me $10 I didn't know what a job was at the time or anything. You paid me $10 an hour, just go follow him around and he likes, showed me what he did and all that kind of stuff and I realized was like I thought of this guy's like a CEO, some sort of like, you know, up on a pedestal kind of thing. It felt very blue collar. Actually, what he did, he went around to all his properties. He'd see, like a pile of crap in the corner over there.

Write it down and tell someone to go fix it. You see a clogged toilet. Go tell someone I was like, You do this. This seems like almost easy. And I remember watching him sift through deals like real estate deals. And he'd look through, like, hundreds day they'd put him out. Hey, look at Emily. And

every once

in a while, after, like several 100 deals, he Billy whoa. Like something would just be like a steel he couldn't believe. And then people would be like, Oh, he's lucky with real estate And I'm like, I don't know. He looked at 300 deals and picked one like that. Look,

two points with that specifically is like number one. I think we fantasize, and we, like, make things cooler than he's like, Oh my God, he's really running this empire. Do you know how many Twitter followers this guy has? Zero. Yeah, I know, but I think that's the point is that we fantasize like how amazing his days must be, and it's like, not gonna look at it. Shit. And I think it's number one. It's not fired. Holden. I think the second thing is just also just finding something you're generally interested in and curious about. Like I probably just likes real estate. I'm sure he finds

that fun. Of course, what else would you do it? So

to end the show is not as good as you think. Just enjoy it. I eyes

at the moment of the story. Not as good as you think. No, no, I think unless you are starving and on the verge of death right now, you're probably doing okay.

But that doesn't

really help me like finish your food, There's kids and start Africa. Starving is just like yeah, but I've got problems here, too.

It was interesting for me to try to remind myself which it's hard, but it's like while you have everything you need, like I think for myself, it was like I want more of this stuff. I want the next thing and the more thing and it's like, Why don't you just take a step back and look at what's already going on? It made me actually really appreciate more not to say I can't want Maura and grow and all the stuff, but just kind of appreciating it more as

a fucking great. Yeah, I think sometimes these answers are pretty simple and people don't want to believe it. So maybe just doing the dishes well is part of the answer. They were just making your bed really nice. No creases. Maybe that is part of the answer. And those things gradually add up to make a satisfied person. I think it doesn't have to be this one big grand jury. I'm going to make a rocket bubble. It's like it doesn't have to be like that doing the earth. The world gives you everything you'll need. I don't know what that means.

I guess sometimes, like I get you ever you know, Mushrooms When I was like that. Weird. No, I just don't like people, not people. So, like, if I get like a dish and I'm like, I didn't have this thing, I want a complaint. You know me, I'm like, Oh, it's it's too cold. It's not this And then I'm just trying to think about it, all right? I have everybody. There were bad. So I think what

you're referencing is that whenever me and Noah go out. I could care less what I get on my plate lately. Even today you ordered and you just gave me tacos and okay,

I didn't say

anything. Nothing. Now I don't give a shit. And I was very happy. Uh, no, on the other hand, is very picky about what he eats. I make fun of you, but at the same time, it is like that is important to you for some reason. And you articulated one time pretty well. And you said it's like food makes me really happy. And if it's not the way I want it, that makes me sad. I was like, I get it because I have things like that for me.

Like maybe like, the cleanliness of my apartment is not the way I wanted. It really bugs me, right For someone else. Maybe not so much. So. Food is like your thing on that. And so I don't think so bad that you complain. It's funny thing. The good part is you order for me, and then I don't have to order me happy.

More of the story is do your dishes. I think there's one thing to take away from that, but doing

well. Oh, you know, it's always a good piece of advice I learned from Read it. It's like treat the dish as a sink. You have to clean it. Too bad you have to make the sink clean.

I wasn't a lot of judicious crying.

I'm just better than

you. You weren't allowed to do dishes. What a longer story. My mom basically is so neurotic that, like we were at my house, is an example. One of my ex girlfriend was clean the dish. That's why she's next now. And no, what does? So my mom will go and read you all the dishes because they're not clean enough

is pretty neurotic.

She is that she loves clean, like that's her number one hobby.

I think your brain has to be occupied. Remember sometimes, like I think, last year on Thanksgiving or something. There's kind of home in Houston. My

family, just like

this period of time that we had nothing to do for like, two hours that's got bored. I was like I had to go do something which didn't want to work out, so winner rates the yard. It was really satisfying, but it goes through anything like any phases of any project. At the beginning, you're like it was kind of fun, like Rick in the yard. You start midway through. You're like, God damn, it has got to still keep doing this. You're kinda bored by that point, and by the end, you're just There's all these little things you gotta like. Bag it up and I'm like I just wanted to rake for a little while.

But I think going through all three stages, like beginning excitement middle, kind of like Treasury and then the last part of, like, buttoning up Don analyzed. There's something rewarding about that.

That's a wrap. I hope you like the episode first. If you like this episode, text a friend. You love them. Yodo. Let's go sledding together. Yea, Next go say hi to Neville at copyrighting course dot com. That's cooperating course with two K's k o p Y W r I t i N g k o u r s e dot com or on the Twitter world at Neve Med, any V m e d special Thanks as usual to Jason Sanderson and podcast Tech for producing and engineering the show and the rest of you gorgeous listeners for giving me your ear lobes. One more quick plug. If you love collecting e mails, sending e mails and talking with your customers and you wanna hang out with them, you sumo dot com It is the best, most affordable and sexiest email marketing tool online built by. Go check it out. See what I have. A splendid and what's your favorite gift you got over the holidays?