Welcome to Nobody told me. I'm Laura A wins and I'm Jan Black. On this episode, we welcome adventure entrepreneur and author Matthew Walker to the program. Matt is a behavioral scientist in adventure expedition leader who works with people to take the lessons learned from adventuring and apply them to the everyday challenges we all face that is the author of Adventure in Everything. How The Five Elements of Adventure Create a Life of authenticity, Purpose and inspiration. Matt, thanks so much for joining us.

Thanks for having me looking forward to our conversation.

Yeah, we are, too. You believe adventure can teach us how to live each day in each relationship with intention and focus and humor. Tell us more about what's led you to become a catalyst for adventure.

So I started climbing mountains and adventuring about 16. 17 and I grew up in the Mecca of all North American alpine mountain climbing of northern New Jersey

on uh,

what I found was that I quickly needed to have more. But I got really, really into it and kind of caught the bug for adventuring and made my way out to the Pacific Northwestern University and stayed out here and in that process, what I realized was that the connections that I had with other climbers and my partners was something that hadn't experienced in any other part of my life. And through those partnerships and friendships, that kind of opened the doors to really a deeper level of the human experience in challenge and in nature. Well, I found in the climbing community in guiding Mountains, and my own partners in the climate community was that we kept going back for more, but we weren't very skilled at taking the lessons learned from those experiences and applying them to our professional lives are applying into our personal lives. And so I made it my mission to learn more about that process and then score my clients and, frankly, myself. Thio, take those lessons learned on applying to the everyday even the pressure mountain climber. I only spend you know 101 120 days a year and a sleeping bag, which may sound like a lot but also leave 200 days plus where I'm not. So it's a lot of space there in a lot of room there to apply that learning and then to bring challenging adventure into other arenas. My

life on a really basic level. Why is it so important for everybody to have adventure in their lives?

It's what brings vitality and engagement in our lives. So it's super important to have routine and tow, have some normalized behaviors to have some things that are expected and that we can rely on. But we become complacent and lose that sense of vitality and curiosity when we don't have uncertainty and adventure, whether it's in the mountains or it's simply a way of being in terms of how we engage with our significant others. Oh, are the way we parents our Children. That sense of adventure is really what brings out the best in us when uncertainty is a key component

of that. Yeah, how do you define adventure? Cause I'm thinking that maybe our definitions of adventure may differ.

Yeah, yeah, let me out. Let me clarify that. So, you know, part of my work is reclaiming the word adventure, the idea of ensure that it's not something strictly for National Geographic or Red Bull or outside magazine or something of that nature that those classic forms adventure are incredible. story tellers and can really catapult us. But that we really have the most important aspects of our lives truly are defined by adventure. So I break it down this way. That adventure is made up of five different elements. There's high endeavor, uncertain outcome, total commitment, tolerance for adversity and great companionship. And when we address all five of those,

that's really where that full engagement, living, the vitality and curiosity really stoked. And where we show up fully where our values and action turn alignment. So adventures truly a way of being as opposed to strictly, like in an extreme sports sort of experience.

If you could go into those a little bit more in depth, that would be super

so high. Endeavor is really those aspect of our lives that drive us to show up as fully as possible, so we only have a few of them throughout our lifetime. It's a unique nexus, I think of like a Venn diagram with values on one side, actions on the other. We have values that drive us through the world. We have actions that we do every day when they overlapped. Those are the areas of high endeavor So our hind ever shift and change over time so you can think of them, you know, kind of the big goals that drive us a different stages of our lives. So for some, it could be entrepreneurial goal. For some, it could be a child or significant relationship. They're always shifting and changing. And so the high endeavor is really what is the engine that drives us?

And when we're tapped into it, there's no real question of sacrifice. We were automatically do. Our creates what is necessary for that to succeed or to be healthy. So they're high endeavors. The uncertain outcome, I think, is pretty obvious in terms of how we manage uncertainty and, you know, human nature. It's funny and that we really shy away from uncertainty. We're always looking for a very specific, certain outcome in order to feel safe and secure. But if you look at the most important aspects of your life over time, there directly tied to that sense of uncertainty, that uncertainty is really what has made those aspects of our lives as important

as they are and thrilling,

too, and drilling too. Yeah, so it's like, you know, the difference is you won't have amusement park ride experiences, which can have, ah, visceral effect and can have a physical and emotional effect. But those were short lived because you're really just a passive participant. Or do you wanna have uncertainty in the most important aspect of your life? And that's what really forces you to be totally engaged in that moment. So total commitment. Yeah, I'll start with what total community. It's not because it's not like the 19 fifties version of Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and kind of suck it up and make it happen at all cost. Instead,

it's it's a little more nuanced than that. Total commitment is being committed to the outcome and the goal, but being really flexible and nimble and open to influence in getting there. So the idea is that you put blinders on and just attack the goal without allowing new influence. A new information and you may reach that goal. But it could be really painful and difficult to get there, whereas if we open ourselves up influence, ideas and new information, then it allows us to be able to reach that goal with more fluidity. And he's so commitment is being committed the goal but still being opened influence along the way. Controversy. It's the easiest one to forget, because we have a tendency of humans to take ourselves really seriously, and it's easy to get sucked into our own drama in our own sense of overwhelmed. But it's also the most contagious. We know when we surround ourselves with someone who has humor during challenging situations,

you can remind us of kind of the absurdity of the human experience and pull us out of that. So tolerance diversity has a give and take to it. Give and take is that we allow ourselves to be influenced by others that kind of shake us out of that navel gazing or that space where we take ourselves so seriously and we owe it to others to bring that out of them as well. So it has a twofold aspect to it, and then the final one is great companionship, and for me, that's like the way that I started our conversation with. That's to me like the indelible marker of the whole thing that humans in the world being in a relationship with other humans, and the reward that we get from that this bar? None. And when I think a great companionship, I don't necessarily think of it in terms of Onley, friends or family that you really enjoy spending time with as much as it is. How can we elevate those around us? How can we support the high endeavors of those around us? So whether that's as a mentor,

mentee and being in relationship in order to reach a goal? So even though your goals or your high Nevers may have a solo performance aspect to it, let's say it's running a marathon or something like, That's the gold eerily set out for you actually have to physically do that. But in order to get there, you've been surrounded by others that have supported you. Supported your training. You know, maybe you have a spouse stepped up and taking care of your Children while you're in training mode or your co workers. How you got lots of circles of people around you that have supported you to make that happen. So the great companionship piece is really about recognizing that each of us, like every single person that you interact with through the world, also has those high endeavors and we can play a role in supporting the success that they have in that.

Yeah. And I left this block post that you have that is titled why Team building is easier at 10,000 feet. Why is it easier?

Yeah, Why? Because we stripped down a lot of the B s. We can just go straight to the point. We remove a lot of the masks and just get straight down to the point that we're all human beings, share experiences with wants and needs. And when we're out in the mountains were out in nature. That happens really quickly. We dropped the mask, were able to be humans together, were able to recognize the challenges that we're facing and work together towards that success and removing ourselves from the everyday. This is where the key part for me and utilizing traditional adventure as a teaching tool is we remove ourselves from our everyday patterns of behaviour and force ourselves into new environments. And when we force ourselves into these new environments, that's where the learning really takes place. It's where the patterns of behavior, so obvious well given example, was just leading a client on a rock climbing trip last week.

He's a coaching client, so we've been coaching together for a few months, were out doing a rock climbing thing for a couple days, and what I noticed in his behavior was when he felt stuck, he would do what's called shopping for holds. He would shop for holds. He would grab every single hold that was on the wall in front of trying to find out which one was the best, and they were all pretty good. No more great, but they're all pretty good. But he spent a ton of energy and time touching each one and then doing it again and again, as if it's like the third time he's gonna touch the hold is gonna be different than the first time. But what what? It communicated to me Waas Oh, this is the same way that he's attacked or kind of addressed some of the problems. They've been having a business owner instead of just executing with the information that he has.

He's been researching and researching at nauseum, and he's been kind of touching every hold trying to find out the best solution, and as a result, he hasn't taken action. So you get this little microcosm of an experience, the rock climbing and it actually sheds light on how he approaches similar challenges in his personal impression

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I'd say simply that people feel successful in their lives, and yet they don't feel alive, so they're looking for something to help them feel more alive. They know that they're successful on paper, and the meaning for that isn't as deep as they want it to be. And they're looking for a way to feel a sense of vitality in other areas of their lives.

So what would your best advice be for someone who came to you and was may be struggling with some self doubt

practice small adventures that are local? So what I would say is these ideas of micro adventures think about your own commute or your own city. There are certain things that you pass by every day that you have never experienced,

right.

You don't even really aware of it. And so it's a matter of starting to have a little more curiosity and saying yes to things that you typically don't even acknowledge. So it could be something as simple as like the restaurant that you continually drive by but you've never been to, and that would be something really simple to dio. But really, she just started to shake up your habits and routines in order to force yourself into being more aware. So opening are the possibilities of curiosity and awareness to the world that surround us and stepping outside of habits and your teams that keep us feeling stuck. That's a typical exercise I have people do, and it's amazing, just like the slightest little shift in our routines and habits, and it opens us up to different ways of looking at our communities.

And I know that you're passionate about the notion that sometimes we simply need to push the reset button toe start over emotionally and physically and professionally. Why is

that? Yeah, because I think it's easy for us to go to a place of shame and feel that because we've had historical patterns of behavior, that we're stuck with those experiences and so we're stuck making meaning out of those experiences that because we behaved or thought in a certain way or had a certain outcome, that it it's a reflection of who we are as individuals and these hard resets, whether it's a brain dump and kind of like journaling getting everything out, whether it's taking a full day and just, like, literally detoxing yourself from any additional input. But ways that we can start over to start new practices with a fresh, clean slate. And, um, you know, I I recommend brand new journals for people I recommend starting over their exercise routines from day one again. You know, just all these different ways that we can push that reset to give ourselves permission to try again and continually keep trying.

Um, and that goes all the way to having deep, intimate conversations with our significant others. That's that's an opportunity for a reset to acknowledge that maybe your behaviors or the way even acting or thinking, hasn't been in best service in the relationship. And you're asking for the opportunity to reset and then meet again with fresh eyes. So I find it for myself and for my clients to be extremely beneficial, to give ourselves permission to start over again and again and again.

What are your suggestions for actually sticking with these new habits that we're trying to create

Yeah, So I do use a tool called the Expedition of Sent Plan. The tool is divided into four sections and I'll US India links. We can have in the show notes so people can see what this looks like. But the tool basically goes over four different parts of our lives. There's, ah, spiritually side. There's physical health, there's your work slash Well, and then there's relationship, and what I have people do is actually start really small. Where they do one behavior her category on a daily basis for 30 days straight. And so what? One behavior for contribution, which would be like the community one would be. How can you contribute to the world today in a way that makes an impact?

And so a client I was working with today, what he wanted to do was he wanted to be able to do one thing each day that was either praise or let someone else up. That's all he has to do one per day. And so his example for today was he gave praise to the person at the checkout line, who you just typically just kind of at the grocery store is checking him out. Instead, he paused and, like, really look, look him in the eye and acknowledged in what he's doing and praised him in somewhere. So it's like these little tiny, habitual shifts instead of trying to make huge, sweeping changes. But we do these little tiny, habitual shifts in the way that we put our energy out in the world, engaging in those five elements. Adventure sticks. If we try and make this huge habitual shifts, we set ourselves up for failure after only a couple days.

Another thing you do is to urge people to draft an autobiography of their lives up to this point in two paragraphs and under 500 words. What's the purpose behind that,

making it super clean and clear, getting all the Burbage and story out of the way to be really, really clear about who you are and what you're doing in the world to see. Are you currently lining up your values and your actions? The more that we can get out of our head in terms of the story that we create about our history in our past and why we do those things, the easier it is to step into the action of alignment and what I call directionality so that our next steps forward are in the direction of our values and actions in alignment. On doing that exercise just pares it down really crystal crystal clear. A lot of it's just kind of it. Just the same way of talking about getting outside in order. Thio learn the leadership skills. It was very similar sort of experience that if we can kind of cut the chaff and just get out of get out of our own way in terms of story and get to the meat of the work that we're doing, it allows us to be able to break through much, much quicker.

Matt, I love how you recommend writing a letter of commitment to ourselves. What should that include?

The commitment peace is it's an extension of of the autobiography piece, which is why am I even doing this work? What's the goal here? What's the reminder? I think of it as a filter, the commitment. So I got all these distracting and different things that we can kind of input into our lives, and then we have. Then we need to put a filter into it as to which ones we take in and the commitment pieces I'm going to bring in the aspects of my life that support my values and then allow me to show up fully. So let's say generosity is one of those things that goes through the filter. And then I cry. My no, I apply generosity or gratitude out into the world, um, where the commitment piece is really just about laying down that marker, um, and then making it a declaration of it.

One thing I like to do with the commitment pieces I like actually add some accountability to it, and I bring another person into it. So if it's something to do with my home, I'll bring my partner into it. If it's something something to do with a work environment or a friendship or some other piece, then I'll bring that other individual into the accountability piece. So so that I'm making a declaration that more public means private in terms of relationship. But it's public, and then it's outside of my just my own

head, and you also urge people to take three steps when they're dealing with adversity. Acknowledge, reflect and plan. Explain more about those.

Yeah, so the adversity piece is interesting that it's really easy for us to get stuck in patterns where we have a belief system that we either deserve the adversity or the adversity is inevitable. The difficulty is inevitable, and sometimes it's simple. It's just acknowledging what the situation is literally and then moving into the reflection is toe, How did you get there? What steps lead to that? And then the plan is what? Actually, um, I'm gonna take to get out of that on I'd actions don't recommend that people do all three of those in one sitting. It's typically better don over a period of time so that you give yourself enough time to kind of pass through the acknowledgment phase, which can kind of some shame or embarrassment around it. The reflection piece, which can kind of some sadness around it. And then the planning piece, which is the kick in the ass where Okay,

now I'm gonna change now that I can see the patterns of behavior, I'm in a place to be able to shift and change that all of these tools are incredible tools to be able to support this idea of full engaged in living, but the caveat is that they are incredibly difficult to do on your own. And so I really encourage whether it's working with me or wouldn't with another coach or working with a friend or a significant other, but brings somebody else. It is supportive of your process into it in order to hold you accountable. But that extra perspective and the weight of being in a relationship with someone else is what really gives this. The, uh gives it legs and gives it some stability, so all these tools on their own are excellent. But when you add that the next layer two, which is the human relationship piece, that's where it really that's where the stuff becomes sticky and really starts Thio build on itself.

Matt, you're somebody who has accomplished so many things over your life. But you say that what you accomplished isn't anywhere near is important as how you go about accomplishing it. What do you mean by that?

And certainly accomplished things that I'm not that proud of that air on paper, amazing things and the reason why I'm not that problems because of me, the style they're accomplished in or the relationships I was in that allowed for that thing to happen, whatever it is. So it it's really the way that we move through the world is far more important than the actual accomplishment that we create. And what I mean by that is you can write your book, have a successful business. You can do X y Z that on paper, receives accolades from others and is deemed traditionally successful. But in the style in which we do, it is really everything. And when I think back on the aspects of my life that I'm most proud of, they're ones where I was the most present and focused and, um, centered. Those things make a far greater imprint on me than the most. Some of successes. Quick example is my book. I am really proud of the book

that I will, he said.

But the reality is when I think about things I'm proud of, that's certainly not something I'm most proud of by any stretch. I'm proud of the moments that I am present with my son when he's throwing a fit or or in pain or having difficulty and I could help him work through that and, uh, see kind of the shift in confidence or joy in his life. Those moments to me I'm much more proud of than having just been having written a book like because it calls from me. Values are present in a way that impacts someone directly, whereas writing a book, you may have a profound impact on the reader, but I don't actually necessarily experience that

same way. What's next for you? I mean, you've climbed so many mountains. What's next on your agenda? In terms of adventure,

this year's pretty cool that you're moving the remainder of the year and in the spring. So I've got more expeditions coming. I'm leading a men's group up, killed to women's groups of Kilimanjaro, that small exhibition in Indonesia in the spring, the whole bunch, different mountains in between. But I think the thing I'm actually most proud of is, uh, a couple weeks I'm hosting a group of men at my home, and I'm building ah, community that I I wish that I have had access to previously. And so what that looks like is I invited 10 different men to my house for a three day weekend to unplug. Everyone's gonna focus on one specific goal. We're gonna give, give and receive feedback on those goals. And then also, if you've been through that experience, the other pieces that each man has to bring something to the table that they're gonna teach the other man

Wow. Like what?

I don't know. That's the thing. I have no idea. I just invited people to do this, so I have no idea what they're gonna bring. And that's part of the joy of it is when I think about, like, the opportunities that we have in front of us, often times we're in receiving votes. You know, we're looking through the newspaper online for what's happening in town and what's what's going on. What can What can we do when really all we have to do is make the small asks and start to create them on our own. So all I'm doing is creating the container in the space. And then these men are also coming in. Actually helped create the event. Took some gumption tojust send the invite out. I have no idea people are gonna receive it in a and then I did get some feedback of like,

Oh, what's the catch? Why? Why is this free or involved? It's just just everyone, you know. People come from New York and from Washington State to look into New York and Portland, Vancouver, Seattle, Jackson, Wyoming becomes more leave the place to come together for the weekend. But for me, when I think of like, what's next? It's opportunities like that, its ways of creating community,

that that inspire and engage us so anyone could do that and you could do it for a day. You can do it for three days, So when I think about what's next for me, it's hard for me. Thio. Answer that in a distinct way because I don't know.

There's so many good things coming up adventure you don't even know about. And, as you know, our show is called. Nobody told me. So we want to ask you, what is your Nobody told me lesson and are you? It could go in so many different directions. What? What is it that nobody told you about life or adventurer business or family that would have made your life easier?

Nobody told me that I could do what I wanted to Dio. I know it sounds kind of flippant, but I grew up in a way that you followed direction professionally or personally in order in order to move to the world. So I didn't realize the doors were open. You can literally create what he wanted. Create that there's are to be created in every day, literally like the art of not just no time just painting and music and those kinds of traditional forms of art. But the art of building community you can create are constantly that's that's always available to you. So I never knew that until I started doing it on my own. That that's probably the biggest learning that I've had a zone adult. That space of creation is literally limitless

and met. How can people connect with you on social media and the Internet?

Yeah, so the classic Instagram Matt Walker adventure, Um and then my website is Matt Walker adventure dot com, and I actually do have a challenge for your listeners. If I can

share that. Yeah, please.

In the show notes. There will be a link to a site and you can just go to the site. Click on if you're doing this, click on I'm in and then type in your what the values are in the action you take. So this is what it is. It's a 10 day accountability program. So I was talking earlier about lining your values and actions together. Andi Accountability pieces, a central component to that. So I have no idea personally who your listeners are. There's no there's no personal relationship there, so there's no judgment there. Um, so you go to the go to the link, you click on it and gives you some directions. But basically what it is you identify a personal value that you have. And then,

um So let's go back to the example of gratitude and s a graduate the value would bring into the world. And then you identify over the next course next 10 days, how are you going to express that gratitude? And then that email comes to me directly, and I will follow up with each person personally 10 days later to check in to see if they were able to apply that value moving forward. Some people will. It will be no problem, and others will be challenging, and they will need a little bump. Well, uh, you know, restart in terms of the countdown for the 10 days, that's a really cool way to gain, have accountability anonymously on something that's important to them. So I really encourage your listeners to go

and check that out. I love that I love that. That's so simple, but I think it could be helpful for all of our listeners to make sure you're checking that out. Our thanks to Matt Walker, who's the author of Adventure in Everything. How the Five Elements of Adventure create a Life of authenticity, purpose and inspiration. And again, his website is Matt Walker adventure dot com. I'm Laura Owens, and I'm Jan Black and you've been listening to Nobody told me thanks so much for joining us.