everybody. This is still

the f t and this is heating shop. And today, on the startup chat, we're gonna talk about one of my pro tips that I tweeted about recently. Just said pro tip, share your work way like talking about more than just sales

and market. We just wanna bullshit and chat about business in life. Hopefully, while we're doing that provide long value to people. The world's best business podcast. Oh, shit. For people trying to get shit done way. Don't want to give you feedback.

That's bullshit. We want you to do your best. And I think it caught Stelly I which I'm not surprised about. What did it spur

for year? Well, first of all, the tweet popped up in my timeline. I have to look it up again. And it was not just you, but it was you with a tweet and reply. You'll know from whom it was like your tweet. That said, pro tip, share your work and then below it, it showed the reply of somebody saying, I love you. Uh, Julian Julian Shapiro, who's a bad as it was a great follow. And so I had to laugh both because I love what you tweeted but also loved his response.

Just I love you. She's like classic eso as always when your tweets are inspiring or at least slow me down on my tweets Scroll track a second. This'll seems right. Hold on. I'm always curious. What prompted this? What happened in Eaton's life? What? Thought? What conversation did they have? What happened just before you picked up this morning was like, All right, let me share this with the world pro tip. Share your work.

So tell us. Yeah. One of the most secretive people I know is David Cancel from Drift. And I was looking up something he shared on Lincoln. Uh, they over adrift. They created yet another new category. So they created a category called conversational marketing over the last few years. And they recently, like a few weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago threw down and said, Basically, we're creating a new category now again, and it's called revenue acceleration. And then when they announced it, a bunch of folks Dave Gerhard, who used to work adrift,

had some commentary. A few other folks had some commentary about it, and then David decided Thio share some slides. I'm gonna call him ugly because they are. And that's a compliment in this case. Share some sides that he will. It worked on internally, and he had a nice little note about it basically saying that there's no point keeping these secrets because we have to build with the customer kind of thing. Quite say it like that. That's we said. And what I realized is, well, if he is now advocating sharing your work, someone who's been very secretive historically, you know, even he's catching on.

That's interesting, you know. Remember, we did an episode of Long time back now around transparency, right? Especially like being a startup sharing, I think at the time. For a little while it was kind of this hot new trend of, like sharing revenue numbers or sharing your

Patrick's dashboard with startup

called Open Startups exactly, and then sharing salary numbers and sharing other things. Remember, we had a really, I think, enlightening conversation for the listeners. A lot of people have commented on it where it was like, Well, you know, there is no organization of human that is 100% transparent with the world. There's always some things you just don't know about. Even these open startups have thinks that they're not sharing right or that they choose to share at a specific given time. And this can be amazing marketing. And it can be part of your culture, the kind of people you attract but don't feel forced into it, right? Just make sure that it fits your personality and your culture.

And, you know, even with with the two of us, we both have, like co founders. I think we both are fairly open. I mean, there's lots of things that we keep private from the world, but we're pretty open people. But we both have co founders that are in some areas, may be a bit more secretive or uncomfortable sharing certain numbers with the world or something that's so we had close have always been about sharing everything we know with the world. But when it came to our metrics or revenue numbers, customer numbers and all that, that those kind of the things that we always had close to our chest. So it's interesting that David cancer kind off spark this idea of like share your work. Now here's my big question for you or something that I'd love to hear thoughts about There is,

so there's there's beauty and there's power and sharing your work. But there's also risk if you do it while you're still unsure about that work for the outcome of it. Even if it's even if you feel it's something or something fails that you've done after it failed with some time passing, it's pretty safe for founders or for start ups to talk about it openly. Here's the big failure. Here's the big mistake we made, and usually they'll get a lot of admiration, a lot of attention for it. So it's kind of a safe thing to do. This is something in our past that we learned and we want to openly share with everybody, and I've seen a lot of that. What I have not seen a lot off is people sharing what they're currently doing, what the outcome is completely unclear, right? Anything be framed, it can't be framed as this was the turning point of our success or this was the big mistake I made that I want to share.

It's sort of like this is what we're currently doing Who the fuck knows what's gonna happen? And then, Oh, we're changing our mind or we're changing our mind again. Sort of like the more messy version of this is sharing in real time, right? While you don't have a narrative ready, you can't frame it nicely. And so there's a there's a maybe a. I fear that you'll appear, I don't know, less confident, less like you and your company. The shit together. Yeah, I got it.

So I'm curious about about that Number one. If you agree with that observation, this is an observation I've made. But we've never talked about this, that I see kind of lots of lots of really honest sharing, but always with some kind of, um, time that has passed in order to be able to frame and that it appears to me that sharing your work in real time seems more risky because you just don't you don't control. The narrative is nicely anymore. It's harder to control the narrative.

Yeah, I mean, it shows a level of vulnerability when you do it, even if you don't mean to show vulnerability when you do it on. But I think that that's actually a big factor in tow. How what makes, uh, other people kind of attracted by the idea that you did that and kind of wanting to pay attention? And then and then it also sparked some level of curiosity that is sort of natural for humans, right? Like we're super curious, especially about other people. In a way, it's a distraction from our own work, too. So I think all these things are true, and that makes sort of sharing your work extremely beneficial toe thio to you if you're sharing it and then this idea of sharing it earlier,

sharing it late. Here's the funny thing when you share your work. In a way, people kind of feel like you shared it early. And if you didn't mhm because you shared your work, you did something that's not that's uncommon. Most people don't share their work. They don't. They don't they don't go out there and go, Hey, this is what I'm working on. Here's how I came up with it. Here's how I did it. But the benefits air literally like incredible when you do it and you figure out to do it for your market or your customer base or, you know, other founders.

If that's kind of your market or whatever, I think that's the part that's hard to deny. But when it comes to kinda this idea, which is like it's almost like there's there's, like these weird, like, false benefits to it that are hard to understand until you kind of do it. And what I mean by false benefits is like even if you didn't intend thio seem vulnerable, you will seem vulnerable when you when you share your work like it'll it'll other people will be like, Oh, that was so vulnerable or that was so transparent and like all you're trying to do probably is just find a way to to marketing and get side up or get attention, and the way you did that is by sharing your work, which is, ah, lot of the intention behind it. Wow,

if you think about a company like Buffer and their idea of transparency with salaries and all that stuff, I would say them being the poster, poster poster, Children of like, sort of the concept of sharing your work. They did it because they believe that the way it should be which is very different than what I'm seeing a lot of people do today. So so it's like David Cancel finally came around and kind of said, This is the way it should be. We should be sharing the stuff in public so we can develop these things with customer on. And I think that's obviously aspirational for someone like him is very private and secretive about what they're doing at that company until they just do it. And now he's saying that like, Look, even this revenue acceleration think it's a work in progress and here Here's how we thought about it and the promise was that he's going to share more. So now I'm kind of waiting for him to share more because I'm curious, but also like he's never been that transparent, where he'll share stuff that's internal without like it being marketing or it being super polished and this thing wasn't really Polish,

it was really good. It was high quality, but it wasn't polished on and that Yeah, that's just that's just new to me from him and it really got me thinking like this is the pro tip, especially if he's kind of catching on into it and explaining it from a customer centric mindset. Because the second that clicks for someone like him, I think there's no undoing it. If that makes sense.

Awesome. And I think this this last part is really important on the line and it explains so well why it spoke to your white stood out to you is that it came from a customer centric insight. That was the driver it was not Did you know, when you share your work, it gets a lot of use like it was not

Did you know, working All right, That s

so and so. And I wonder if he had said that if you had looked at that and went okay, you know, But the customer

Yeah, he he himself put a narrative behind it of why he felt like he should share those slides. And this whole idea was this is work in progress. Eso In a way, you're sharing your work. Sharing your work is really about sharing your work in progress.

I love it. Alright, Pro tip. You've heard it Here, Share your work. Let us know how it goes. Alright. This isn't from us. We'll hear very soon.