Do You Prefer Starbucks, Blue Bottle, or Philz? (Guests: Philz Coffee CEO Jacob Jaber, Techcrunch Reporter Kate Clark)
This is Your Life in Silicon Valley
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Full episode transcript -

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Welcome to Season three of This is your life in Silicon Valley. A podcast about the Bay Area technology and culture. I'm your host. Soon eel Roger Rahman. And I'm joined by my co host, Yasha K Kiss Wolf.

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I always wonder

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if things that happen on Twitter are actually really or not like, Is it just all made up stuff, or do people actually interact with each other and then see each other in the real world? You know, I wonder that, too. Until today. Just today? No, not not really. I've actually I've actually met some great people on Twitter. Well, today was a pretty special day because we have two guests and two guests that came from Twitter. So, uh, I follow Kate Clark, who is a reporter for TechCrunch, and I noticed she sent something out that effectively said she hates fills more than Starbucks, and I'm a huge fills. Apologised. Well,

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um, you know, it just it feels apology. You

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just kind of a fan like I'm a fan. So my instinct was to actually tag fills coffees, official's account, official account, and the CEO fills in that Twitter threat. Yeah, and, um, a little bit of magic ensued, a huge tweet threat followed, and Jacob actually responded. And uh, that's what brings us here today for this week's special edition of This Is Your Life, Yes, So this is a special episode and actually started a bit before we were recording where we met Jacob and Kate at a local fills close toe are recording studio, and Jacob went off the menu and made us a bunch of drinks before we showed up here to do the recording. What essentially was as a CEO of a pretty big company,

doing a customer service call and reporting it on today's episode of the podcast and it's pretty cool. It's a great conversation with a wide range of discussions, and I think you're really gonna enjoy it. We certainly did enjoyed today's episode of This Is Your Life in Silicon Valley, featuring Phil CEO Jacob Jabber and TechCrunch is Kate Clark. Mom used to make for us after a meal to kind of complete a meal set, are all stopped. Several, settle our stomachs and extend the conversation around the table. So that one's a really special drink for us, and it's going really well. We made the oatmeal cookie, which is an off menu drink, which is a combination of the Julies ultimate darker blend and a little bit of, ah, hazelnut beans with some cinnamon.

Uh, and then we made the Mint mojito for Kate. Kate. I have a couple of questions, and I'm just gonna leave it. Go ahead. Was everything you had today better than a Starbucks vanilla latte?

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Yes, I did like what I had today more than my go to drink at Starbucks, which is a nice vanilla latte. But I want to tell our listeners what I told you guys, which is It's not that I love Starbucks coffee. It's just that I miss from Seattle and I was still feeling like I am. You know, I used to the brand on the environment, and I like how you can walk into Starbucks and you're in and out in a few minutes. I don't like that when you go to Phil's, you're kind of stuck in the strange experience where you're not exactly sure where to go. You can't order an espresso drink, and that's kind of why I had this feeling of I hate fills more than I hate Starbucks, but yes, the coffee I had today was really good. I'm still a little skeptical about the, uh, rose a coffee, but I like the back story.

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Was the experience today Good.

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Well, the experience today it was a little unique considering the CEO fills was making our drinks for us. So yes, this experience today it was great, but I didn't have to walk up to the line. And I still don't know exactly where you go to order. But I

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did it with the Berries.

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Start but wish on which end is the

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priest Jacob Explain. Explain the experience and clarify it to our listeners. So when my dad and I started, we thought about people. We thought about coffee. We thought about experience and payment was never something we focused on deeply. We thought about how can we craft the perfect experience of the perfect cup for each individual customer? And we thought it was really important to order from the barista. That's gonna make you your drink and then pick up from that barista and for them to make sure you're happy with it. So that's why it fills you start with the barista while they start freshly brewing it. You go on and grab some food if you like pay, and then we'll call you back up to pick it up. Are you a better priest of the most of every system? You know what? It's a competition right now. I mean, we have so many fantastic people,

but every quarter we do something called Back to Roots or everybody in the home office and the roasting facility. We all go to a store and do a shift so you can have some empathy, and you can practice your breeze to skills. And everybody also has toe be coffee trained, even if they're not working at the store. When you heard that story, Keita's, we're talking about it. Did you think differently about Phil's? After that, we were talking a bit about before we started recording you. Being from Seattle, growing up in Seattle and the experience around coffee and ordering coffee in particular, is pretty unique

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there. Yeah, I mean, in Seattle, everyone knows where the first Starbucks story is. Everyone knows the backstory of Howard Schultz. Everyone's so familiar with the brand and coming moving to San Francisco last summer, you know I saw Phil's, but I had no idea about anything about the backstory. So, yes, it definitely changes how I feel about the company and changes how I feel about specific drinks knowing that there was so much thought put into it. It is. We'll probably encourage me. Visit feels more in the future.

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So just there are over four million ways to enjoy your cup. There is something for everyone. If you're a coffee purists and you love a great quality black cup of coffee, we have something great for you. And if you like something a little sweeter,

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we have something. 1,000,004 million. Is that

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really there? Are over four million weighs 200 pills. There are 15 bloods. There are a multitude of ingredients we could incorporate. We have cardamom Spice, which we including the Turkish in the Philharmonic. Yeah, we also have cinnamon. We have not Megan Clove, which we make with our chae. And when you combine all of these things and you mix and match and you have half of one blunder half of the other and adds up pretty quickly. So yeah, we've actually calculated that I think it's 4.5. Maybe a little bit more. So a disclosure to today's listeners. No one on this show has any affiliation with Phil's as a shareholder, as an investor or anything. And we're not. We're not doing advertorial content for Phil's. I just want

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to point that out. Well, what we did learn, though, actually, when we were drinking our coffee. Is that Michael Arrington, the TechCrunch founders investor in Phil's? Okay, so there there

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is a conflict. Of course there's a conflict.

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Okay, okay. Lets loose affiliations. I think

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we have, like, any SEC FCC regulations to follow her. No, I don't think so, But there is no, like ethics

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breach here. So let's

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let's let's of your off topic for a second. Because I want to finish up with the with Cate's tweet. Well, really, You know, I just wantto I just want to go back to that. But, you know, um, Kate, where you from? Ah, how did you get here and tell us about your journey to the valley?

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Yeah. So, just as I mentioned from Seattle Group there, I moved to San Francisco about nine months ago, so I'm still very fresh. I moved here for a job at TechCrunch. So, um, I'm a journalist covering tech start ups. And this is just where all the tech all the startups are. So

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when you grow up in Seattle, where it was there a point in time where you're like, I have to move to San Francisco, I want to move to San Francisco. San Francisco is going to be my city.

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Definitely not. I mean, Seattle is known, of course, for Amazon Microsoft. It does have a really huge tech ecosystem in a community of tech workers. But growing up there, it was not something that I was close with or thought about. And I wanted to be a newspaper reporter, you know, like boots on the ground. Didn't think about covering tech in the slightest. So I never thought about moving here. It wasn't until maybe a year or so before I did that. I was like, Let's probably makes sense for me to go there, considering what I now cover.

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Yeah, Jacob, tell us about your Ah, you know where you're from. Uh, how much time you spent in San Francisco? It sounds like you're a native. Yeah. Was born and raised. I was born in, actually, South San Francisco, not too far from here, and the original fields used to be a grocery store in the mission on 24th and Fulsome. So growing up when I reach 10 years old, I started helping my dad after school at the grocery store, so I spent a lot of time in the mission.

But I'm proud to be a native here. Did either of you get in a lot of trouble as kids like So in high school? What was the worst thing that you got? I don't know, punished for face to ramification for. I was playing basketball one day in high school, in the courts during lunchtime, and we're I was a little bit rough with with one of the kids, and he was a little rough with me. And before you know, it started swinging at each other, and then we got I got suspended. But then a couple weeks later, we became friends and apologized. For that was like the worst was pretty tame. So you're kind of goody two shoes during through that,

you know, growing up, I was so focused on Diablo and Starcraft playing those games so I would spend its whole ton of time nerd ing out playing those games strategizing. And that actually was a great lesson for me in business those two games specifically because they require planning strategic thinking s o. I was hooked on that until I got a little bit chubby. And then I got on a diet and started obsessing with working out. And then that was my next focus. We're gonna come to you in a second case. Hopefully, you're thinking about the thing that you did that got you the most trouble as a kid. But Jacob was there a point in time where you were like, I have to explore outside of San Francisco? No, not really. I think that, um I have family and in different places.

So I spent a lot of time in Los Angeles. Um, but I think the city's wonderful and it is really beautiful, so I'm definitely not not tired of it. I love travelling and seeing different places. And now that there's fills in other places, I get the chance toe visit and explore other cities. But I I do love the city. Kate, What did you do? Is a kid that got you into so much trouble that you're embarrassed to tell anybody except for

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our listeners. Well, I have had a pretty untraditional childhood in that my parents traveled a lot for work, and when they were around, they didn't have any rules. So I never got in trouble because they didn't care what I did. So I never have ah, have no stories of my parents punishing me for any kind of bad behavior because they were just like, You can leave the house whenever you want. You can do whatever you want. It was very relaxed.

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Well, I had a big party once where it get busted by 15 squad cars. There's not a lot to me. Oh, it wasn't that kind of crazy party. And one of my friends who we played football together. And he was like, the star of the team in the state ended up climbing up a tree to hide from the cops. That was my story. But, you know, I actually I haven't even gotten a parking ticket. Yeah,

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I mean, you grew up in Cleveland,

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you had to have done that stuff. I didn't grow up in Cleveland as we as we talk about every single episode I see. After a year of doing this, we're still going over this. I was bored in Saratoga. I went to high school in Cleveland.

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I think that's kind

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of the same thing. But, you know, I'm sure, I'm sure if I if I thought back, maybe there were things that I would do nothing. Thanks for having everybody else share. But you keep me close to the vest. That that's the key to good interview. Okay, So, uh, so let's ah, let's let's talk about the tech community for a second. And I mean, I'm curious to hear both of your takes. You have very,

very different angles into this. You cover tech all day. Kate and Jacob. You serve probably large portions of the tech community. What is something that the tech community is doing really well. And what's something that the tech community that's hearing that they really need a vastly improve on quickly

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doing well, Um, what the tech communities doing? Well, I mean, I think everybody is. Don't trying really hard to, you know, Are we talking like what you're doing? Well in San Francisco specifically, are we talking?

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Let's let's take it as a San Francisco specific Silicon Valley specific question.

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I feel like it's hard for me to compliment the tech community. I feel like all my thoughts are a lot more critical because I just tried really hard and was like, I can't think of anything, Um, what are they not doing? Well, I think people are way too focused on Tech. I think there's not enough of outlets for, um, having lives outside of their jobs. Having discussions. I don't revolve around tech, you know, having discussions that are about I pose that aren't about uber like It just seems like everywhere you go in the city, you can't escape those conversations. I think I would, I would say, just taking a step back and getting outside of the bubble is what they really need to be focusing on.

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Yeah, I think I love the ambition and the entrepreneurial spirit here, but I also think that, um ah, it's it has to start with people and has to start with the balance and rich life. And I think that often times there's this there's this, um, thing around, working hard and spending all your time and working countless hours to build a company and be successful. And I think just the the obsession with work is very much felt. And I think, uh, being able to, you know, make a balanced life sexy is probably a good idea. So how do how do we How do you shape the culture in a way that's a little bit more socially energizing? Vs inwardly focused?

I think that's that's one thing. And a lot of times when you're when you're working and training and getting educated on on, um, uh, coding and computer work, it's very inwardly focused. So how do you create mechanisms in the workplace that allow people to connect with one another and build relationships with strangers that you don't know? So I would love people who stood in line at Fields, didn't always look at the phone, but tapped on the person behind them and started a conversation. So that's aspirational. Two words fared a cage just that could be part of the feature of all the film stars went over. Everybody have a 30 cages that it's, uh it's like the metal mesh that goes over the top of a particular area that you want to protect from electronics. So if you dropped a Faraday cage inside of all of your

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story, that's it. Don't do that because I hate that blue bottle doesn't have WiFi. Oh, interest, Can you? D'oh d'oh! Our story. I need WiFi because I'm on the go and I'm working and I can't go on. I'm going to coffee shop to get food or coffee and, like I wouldn't want that thing.

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The fundamental problem is that social isolation causes stress. Yeah, and I think that it's important to, uh, just, you know, step out of what you're doing and take a moment to be thoughtful and just have a conversation with someone, and that's really hard to do, and I think it's not. It's not an easy thing to do, so I think anything we can do to keep encouraging, encouraging that I think it's a is a good thing. But at the same time, there's so many wonderful minutes of technology, and you shouldn't tell someone you can or can't do something, you just need to, um,

empower them and enable him and encourage them. Yeah, that sounds super idealistic. I like it Yeah, and you're You've moved here recently. So you're few months new to the Bay Area. Do you buy that here? Do you think that's a Is that pure idealism? Or do you see a path where we could actually find social interactions happening in San Francisco that could be more meaningful than I'm scared of my phone?

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I mean, I do think it's idealistic and what we're talking about earlier, you know, Seattle is known for the Seattle freeze,

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so people, very

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real it is is definitely riel people, which is just the idea that satellites are not particularly welcoming of outsiders and they're not necessarily very friendly, even to each other. They're just kind of they do their own thing. They have their friends. They don't usually expand beyond those circles. But because I come from a city that is known for that, I think I already you know, that's not something I find myself thinking about, too much like tapping a stranger on the shoulder. And given that I'm also a journalist, I talked to people all the time, so I probably won't need to be tapping random people that fills in the shoulder. Just a chat actually would probably hate that if someone did that to me. So I'm not the audience for that.

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I also think it's a responsibility of leaders in the tech industry and set the example as well that you don't need to work 160 hour weeks. Too productive. Those. Ah, those those hand gestures you're seeing are just You can't see this. Listeners were telling Jacob to get closer to the microphone. Yeah, but that's that's why we're waving our, by the way. Clarification. I think I said earlier that I've never even got a part. Parking ticket is actually a speeding ticket. That's what I was having. Too much coffee. Okay, so, um Okay,

so I want to talkto Jake Jacob for a second about third wave coffee roasters. Okay, so I don't know where the term came from. Maybe you do. But we've seen all of these sort of, you know, premium coffee shops come up. There's obviously fills or his blue bottle. There's verve. There's, um, ritual, who we've had. I lean on the podcast as well. Um, blue bottle was acquired by Nestle.

Of course. I want your take on the ah, the Nestle blue bottle acquisition, Um, and you know, can fills realistically remain independent. Yeah, I don't know much about the relationship of the level engagement they have, so I can't speak too much to that. But generally speaking, what you're seeing is a rise of the artisans, people who are passionate about product and having the entrepreneurial courage to start a business and create something. I think it's a wonderful thing. There are countless options of terrific coffee and food and beer, and and in the city and many other cities, I think,

um, the key for for Phil's is that how do we celebrate partisanship and quality in a way that's accessible and approachable, toe welcoming for everybody? I think that's what really focus on and our vision and our dream is to serve thousands of communities one day, and we are. All of our stores were designed uniquely because we really want people to feel comfortable and welcome and hang out and have a conversation or work or whatever it is. So you know, we have investors as well, but you know, we're all aligned on growing. Phil's doing the right thing by our customers by our team by our business and buy the product quality. And, uh, we don't really have any discussions around exiting or anything of that. Nature is just very, very politically put.

Let me let me just ask him or a direct question if you had the levee. One criticism against blue bottle. Just one just for just give us something. You know, Blue Bottle is I wish they would do this better. Just give us something. I mean, I could do that for a lot of people. I could do it for blue bottle, but you know everything. The key is that everybody has their own tastes. So for some, it's good, And for others, it isn't. I've had it a few times, and I think it's a fine. It's a fine product. I think, personally,

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I'm not a blue

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bottle family. I'm just gonna throw it out. There s O. I am. I'm gonna disclose my bias on this on this podcast, which is I'm just I don't like the acidity. Yeah, I don't like the minimalist aesthetic. I think it's becoming, you know, part of tech model culture. I like a lot of people involved in the company. We had, you know, disclosure Chris. Michael on the podcast is an investor and a great guy, but I'm just personally I'm not a fan of bottled.

Yeah, I think there's this, like could have been designed in Portland and happens to be a coffee shop that started in San Francisco. Five. But I love the options. There are many options. Let the people decide for us. We focus on our own box. We focus on our customers. And, you know, if people want to give us a try, we want to make sure we do the best job we can, converting them. And if they don't like it, we'll keep trying. Kate is Jacob the best media train CEO you've ever been in an interview with. I'm not there just to use a coffee.

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No, I mean all all CEOs I've most CIOs. Francisco are very diplomatic, just like that's very common side. Say you're just on par with the rest. Whoa, just like copies are far. They're negative, I was going to say, though I think that's where is complimenting bills. I do think that come in the store in the brand feels a lot more accessible than Blue Bottle does, and that's why? I mean, I I do not like blue Bottle. I think it is, Uh, except about the mono mono culture and the aesthetic.

The aesthetic is just like venture back startup, but, like in coffee shop form and it's just it's obnoxious, in my opinion. So I do think that fills. It does feel like it's targeting more of the average Joe, which is good. I mean, in coffee shops should be like, you know, their neighborhood meetings. They shouldn't be, ah, place where you feel uncomfortable even walking in unless you're wearing, like, a cool outfit or something.

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Has anyone tried the cat? Shit. Coffee? Uh, what what to call that stuff from Isn't

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monkey shit. It's not. Catch it. No, it's not.

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It is. Yeah, it is. We can fact check this. It's

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called what you're talking

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about. Kali, Lou Puck or something like that. Yeah, it's basically a process. We don't need to get to the details, but it's a process that that actually is a terrific. When I was in Bali Ah, while back I had it for the first time, actually was terrific. It was terrific, but it's deed teaches taste. Yep, my microphone sorry. Can you hear me now? Good. So,

um, hot take from both of you. Okay. Best restaurant, Francisco. Favor your favorite? Not best. Your favorite right now. Restaurants, Francisco car, Car. Car is my thesis Trouble. Fantastic. Disclosure. Also my favorite San Francisco restaurant. Heavy on my favorite Palo Alto.

Owned by the same guy who was my dentist growing. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he is my second favorite, Kok. Ari, on the time during the month where they have the goats do best place. I haven't had that.

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Yeah. What kind of food

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is this place? Great. Greek. Mediterranean. Terrific. Lovely. Yeah, they do you to be offering it. And fried cheese. Second AKI. Fantastic. So good. See, I feel like listeners are gonna listen to this episode and think that, you know, like I'm extremely biased, Which,

of course I am. But I feel like I have to throw in a couple of hardball questions in there. Okay, let's let's talk about we're not done with the restaurant questions. We had one person taken. Oh, yeah, totally. I totally interrupted because I just had a thought. Way too much coffee has had too much coffee. I

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apologize Kate. Okay, well, I haven't gone to a ton of restaurants, so I feel like this isn't fair, but to me since we just moved here. But I really like Artie Rotisserie. Do you guys know that I don't? I also don't go to expensive restaurants because, you know, journalist salary. So

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where is our What is our tea roses

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from? So there is this gonna butcher this? There's like, I think, a Michelin star restaurant chef guy who has a really fancy restaurant. This is like a spinout. Like, um, we're to see your chickens and chicken sandwiches, and it's amazing.

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Like, could we walk from here

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like that? Isn't Hayes Valley?

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That's way could take them. Uni four. I'm just staring at this thing. This is uber strike. Everybody is laughing because I was that guy I took, I took an uber I had a long way to go. It was $4. It was the strike, isn't it? Wasn't working. You're the guy that crosses the picket line when the teachers are out striking, aren't you? No. Just checking the operations of Phil's. Yep. It kind of feels like a clusterfuck of times, right.

Like you walk into the store. This was the original criticism that Kate was loving, and we saw a couple other people on that on that thread say they were just there stressed out when they walk in. And I had a couple of people who reached out to me just sort of separately saying, Yeah, it's like, really confusing When you walk there, it's disorienting. What is your response toe Folks like that. And do you receive any criticism or thoughts on the operation's a piece of it your time back What I was saying first, about how do you enable a personal experience? So the steps of the journey result in having to start with the breeze that they're going to pay to go back to pick up. So some of the legacy stores air not designed in a way that's conducive to a better flow. But if you go to our newer stores, it's a lot more lot more intuitive. But it's really simple here,

the steps starting the line where you order with your barista. Typically, they'll be people online, so you follow the line. Once you order from your barista, head down to the payment register, pay and then step back. There's usually a pew where you can sit and wait in front of the baristas and the person that you order from, we'll call it up to ask you to make sure it's perfect. Before you leave. Kate, do you agree that that process is intuitive?

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No, I mean, I think here you explain it. It sounds a lot simpler than it is. I do think it's it's confusing. I understand if you go to Phil's lot like it's gonna feel very second nature. But for me, So I think I've been to Phil's twice before today and I know both times I walked to the wrong spot and I said, Can I have a lot? And I said No and I was like, Why don't you have that which I want to know? Why don't you serve espresso drinks of any kind?

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Yeah, well, every it's back to the philosophy that the best cup of coffee is one that's made to your taste. So we believe that the process that we have allows us for the best customization. But it's also a process that takes up space and you need multiple baristas. So we wanted to focus on being really, really good at that fish is having a multitude of different, but we're also getting a lot are our? Most of our customers convert from lot drinkers to Phil's drinkers, so we're getting a lot of lot of conversion. But anything new and different is new and different. So, but people that have come for the first time, the feedback that I get is if they are confused, they self correct, right, and usually the barista will walk it,

walk it through and guide you. But if not, you'll learn it. And then the next time you come in yourself, correct. And if you you hopefully don't make the same mistake. Kate and I were talking with us in the store. I'm super introverted, like when I go into a location where there's a bunch of people that I don't know. I'm like that pings of anxiety, and I don't know that Kate put in the same pocket. It's me as we were talking about Phil's, it's overwhelming when you come in because it's very busy hot. Take another business idea, cause every love the Faraday Cage idea do like a separate line for introverts are like maybe you pick up a little card that you just slide up to the Priestess. They know that,

like, just help me guide through. We have a mobile up. You don't even need to talk to anybody. You can just go on your mobile phone order, pay, and then you walk in and will be sitting there at the pickup station and you don't talk. You don't talk to anybody so that the alternative is that he doesn't walk you through the four and 1/2 1,000,000 different types of. Well, hopefully this podcast helps. So download the app and we'll give you some recommendations. But, I mean, people learn any again, anything news? A little bit different,

but we're, uh were were we have lines. We have people who love the product and experience. And, um, we try to take feedback and improve where we can, but we want to make sure we do it in a way that doesn't, uh, um mess with what we think is really important in the experience. Do both of you see yourselves in San Francisco for the rest of your lives? Okay. Where where, where Where will you

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be? Um, I don't know where will be the rest of my life. But I think, um, maybe a few more years here I wouldn't want to stay, um forever. I mean, interested. Hear what you think growing up here. But I would like to move to New York And then after that, somewhere where I can afford to live, like somewhat normally.

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Hopefully, I don't need to decide. Just one place. I love San Francisco. I always envisioned myself having a place here, but I also love Los Angeles. Ah, I love the city. Um and you know, I haven't There's more places to see, but I'd also like to have a place internationally too. I don't know where when, but at some point of a monkey, we'll get to that point. But I love San Francisco. So I always see myself having having a hub here. Are you?

Ah, Are you optimistic or pessimistic about the future of the city given current state? Well, I think Ah, it's hard to be optimistic. Ah, but I am optimistic because I think, um you know, over time people come together and figure it out. I don't know that the government is going to solve the problem. I think it's gonna take individuals organizations to help solve the problem. Tell me what? The biggest problem. Ah, the government is opposed to Phil's. So far to date,

has there been anything that San Francisco has done are imposed or really any or any city? No anomalies? I would say there's no anomalies or nothing out of the ordinary. No, I don't think so. There's nothing that comes to mind. Kate. Have you optimistic about Francisco? The future sanctions

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go? Um, I mean, I haven't been here so long that I feel bad making predictions, but I still can. I think, given what's happened to Seattle, it's transformed so much because of Amazon. I think San Francisco is definitely at the point of no return. Um, and I'm just now learning about the history of the city and, you know, summer of love and all that stuff, and it just seems like so little of that remains. So, um would say no, not optimistic.

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Yeah, affordability is the biggest right for folks. Even folks that work in our workforce, right? It's even if you're making $2025 an hour. Sometimes I wonder. It's like you know, how do you How do you How do you find a place here and be comfortable? So, um, I have empathy for that night. I don't know how to solve that problem. So I do think there's some work that has to be done too. Enable a good quality life for the working class people who are doing so many great things. Did your mayoral candidate that you voted for win in the last election know, Adlai, you know,

unfortunate God rest his soul. What? Ed Lee was a good, good friend of my dad and I stand and a great customer. But, um, you know, we'll just see how the issues get handled so far again, it's hard to be optimistic, but, um, I think over time, you know, usually things have to get worse before they get better. I think, um,

but kid, I'm hopeful, can typical the circus middle class. Or however it's to find in San Francisco afford Phil's coffee. Yeah, I mean, I can't I can't speak for everybody's finances, but a bridge toll is $6 a cup of Phil's is $45. So Ah, it depends. I mean, for me. The way I see it is it's Ah, it's a daily luxury. Um, and just $6 By the way,

that there are, like, 12. Golden Gate is how much? Eat 9 10 minutes. I'm giving you a range, but it's gone up. It's definitely

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got in his middle class in San Francisco.

30:14

Yeah. Is there? Is there one anymore?

30:17

I have no idea what

30:18

it's like. Is it low income considered 117,000 article I saw. If you make a good income. Yeah, the ah, the hypos. Let's see. That's all. That's all the rage. Ah, Is it gonna make things that are gonna make things a lot worse, huh? I would expect it to make things worse. Do you have shares in any of these companies that I'm not aware of? Disclosed Have no shares in the companies that are paying or justify field over the course of the last couple of weeks. Nice. But there's been like a bevy of them a TTE this particular point in the recording.

We're actually getting close toe the end of this episode, so we're gonna tease the question that we want to ask before Sanyo's digs into a couple more questions, but I'm gonna make sure you're thinking about the recommendations for follows on social networks for listeners. So, Kate Yes? Do you retract the tweet that you, uh, that you put out there? That is the origin of this podcast.

31:18

So do I now hate Starbucks more than hate

31:21

pills? That's the question. We'll start

31:23

there. I'm not ready to say that. I am not ready to say that yet. I need some time to think about it. I think the coffee was great. I liked the coffee a lot that I had today. Even the mojito one, which was kind of wild. But, um, I can't say that I I still have. I just still feel like that love for Starbucks, just for my for my hometown. But

31:41

even with their ex CEO of ex cheer person out being a crazy person,

31:46

right? Yeah. Um, Howard Schultz should not be running for president. Stop doing that if you're listening to this, but, um, yeah, I mean, it's more like when I say it's less about, like, the people behind it and more like when I see a Starbucks wherever I am in the world, this is so sappy, but you feel like it's like somewhere I can go. And I feel at home that I think, um I think I probably always feel that way just given, you know, that there's 10 billion Starbucks in Seattle on every corner. But

32:13

let's do a little con. Joint analysis. Do you prefer fills over blue bottle? Yes. Okay, we got we got one there. But, you know, you know what's happening here is you feel escalation of commitment, stuff you put out on social media. So I'm gonna chalk this up to escalation of commitment. I think that my my theory is that in a public forum, Kate understandably doesn't want to admit that the original premise for this entire thing was you just now, Because how did? But it feels like the G bar of Twitter. Uh huh. Yeah.

Maybe you better. Maybe a better comparison, please. Uh, well, I I'm gonna predict that. Let's call it eight weeks from now when we check in on Twitter again. The fact that you know, Jacob and you have this experience and you know, the back story that when we ask you this question again, you're going

33:7

to say? Actually, yeah, I think that's highly likely. And I need time to visit, fills and maybe work it fills for awhile and just not work behind the counter. But, like, work on my laptop at Phil's and sort of experience it more. Um, And then I can

33:21

come visit us at our Dogpatch headquarters. We've got a great space for working there. Okay. All right. You all We appreciate So ah, So, Jacob. Favorite person people organization to follow on social media. And why, um, I love novels. Tweets. A big fan of all. I love his tweets. Ah, I I like Shane parishes tweets. He runs Farnum Street.

Um, I, like, fills his tweets. Do you write this? No, no, we have a team now. My own tweets. Yeah, but not not not the pills account. Those were those were some that they're so money. But, I mean, I'm a big fan of all. You went straight to Twitter.

Any other places that you're spending energy time Instagram lately? Instagram. I found it. A very powerful wayto actually connect with our team members. Ah, and our different stores. Each one has their own individual count and our customers both to get feedback to share content. Um, we're opening in Chicago, so talking a lot about that. So I'm still learning, and I've just started using it a little bit more, but instagram is probably 75% of my social media use. Wow. Your shareholder in Facebook also. Just get it. Kate's in question for you.

34:49

Yeah, I basically live on Twitter, but for some reason, I'm trying my favorite accounts. The first thing that comes to mind is Mike Isaac, which I know you guys had him on the show. We love my I love is to its He's hilarious. Hey, has a newsletter now to that, I think is hilarious. Um, and I think I also follow, like, pretty much only journalists on Twitter. So the other one that comes to mind is Cara Swisher, which is like, she's just

35:10

we've had her on the show

35:11

too. Oh, I haven't heard that 10 yeah. She's one of my journalism idols.

35:16

Yeah. So, Neil, um, were a really bad choice for a shirt that day, and she'd like ground into him for Yeah, that was so I've been on hers too. Yeah. Um how much do you sleep a night? I sleep really well. I probably sleep around, Um, seven hours a night. How many cups of coffee do you every day? Probably 4 to 5. I start with it to soar with honey and cream, and then I have another one.

And then I even have 1/3 1 Or I get the oatmeal cookie, and then I have a rose A. And then, uh, if I feel that I'll have another oatmeal cookie. Okay? Cape do you sleep? Do you drink?

35:55

I don't sleep and drink a lot of coffee. Um, I sleep. I sleep more than that. I said maybe, like eight hour, like, eight hours, and I I'm definitely sleeping as my That's one of my secret weapons, but, um, I drink probably 3 to 5 cups of coffee a day, but I'll drink like, um, just out of, you know, black coffee,

like, uh, the cheapest coffee you could by the grocery store. Like I'm not. I wouldn't be having this pour overs and things at home, but, um facial. Fantastic. Right now. How many

36:23

do you have, like 1/2 a cup today? No, I have two cups. But both usually before 12 on. I won't. I won't drink any after. This is Ah exception. Yeah,

36:32

I drink it all day long. Any hour of the day.

36:34

Yeah. And you sleep well? Yeah. Find a coffee before asleep is great. Yeah, Espresso at night and then go to bed a 45 minute later. Good. Well, this has been incredible. What would an experience to get the ah, the CEO of a company to respond essentially toe what amounted to a customer service complaint, Uh, and do a show about it. So thank you, Jacob and Kate. Thank you for, uh, for also agreeing to do this. I mean, it's It's like you put it out there and you owned up to

37:5

it. Yeah. Thanks for

37:6

having me. Thanks for having me. Thank you both. So, uh, just so everybody can have a picture of this. Sonny was holding his hand up, and it's shaking. Probably like like 1/2 an inch in every direction. Just like total jittery. And I'm gonna let everybody

37:21

know that I'm kind of

37:22

feel the same way to like my heart's beating a little bit faster. And that's not just because I really enjoyed my time in the recording closet with Neil. It's because we've probably collectively drink about six cups of coffee over the last hour and 1/2. This for sure sets the record of amount of coffee I've had in a single day. Probably not just the amount of coffee in a single day, but the amount of coffee in a single day past noon. This is Yeah, this is really breaking protocol for me. But I'll say that it was It was definitely worth it. It

37:51

was totally worth it. And

37:52

even if we don't sleep tonight, we had a great conversation and it's Ah, I think, a good lesson for all of us to learn the CEOs in the Bay Area that reporters in the Bay Area, the people that are setting the tastes and kind of writing the record are all pretty approachable. Yeah, I was. That was that was my take away to you. It was really a nice human moment. Tow, have this virtual interaction happen and then bring the two people together and have a normal conversation about it. And we had ah discussion a couple of seasons ago with the CEO of Ritual and I've been, Ah, steady buyer of ritual and bring the bags home. And I make coffee at home with ritual. I've been a fan of and buying from fills over the course the last few years, mostly in store.

And I gotta tell you, just learning more about the backstory there, it makes me want to be an even bigger fan. Yeah, I I really enjoyed it. We really hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we did. Uh, follow. Ah, Yasha at K Kiss K A y que es. You can follow me at S u B e s 01 And like we always ask if you enjoyed this episode as much as we like to making it. Please go back to the app that you found the podcast on rate is five stars and leave us a comment. It actually helps more people find this podcast. Thank you very much.

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