John A. Carman – Former US Secret Service Agent

Speaker 1

Hey, everybody, it's the Mallard Report.

Speaker 2

The Mallard.

Speaker 3

The Mallard Report, the fastest hour in paranormal talk radio. Oh.

Speaker 4

It's the Mallard Report.

Speaker 5

Hey. The opinions expressed on the Mallard Report are those of the host and participants. All listeners are advised to make their own decisions. And now your host, Jim Mallard.

Speaker 6

Welcome aboard to the Malliard Report. My guest tonight maybe sound familiar to you, cause he was on almost a month ago. I didn't look it up, but he's John A. Carman. Last time he was on, we talked about customs and all that stuff, all that nasty, dirty, makes me still need a shower, talking about it now even, stuff with US customs, but that's not why he's here tonight.

He's here tonight to A, talk Secret Service stuff, and B, pay off... He, he is trying to talk me out of the, not, not talk me down, because I'm, I've told him that it's the best ghost story I've ever heard, and he says, touch the brakes a little bit, but I'll let you guys decide, because I'm saying it is the best one I've ever heard, but we'll get there here in a little bit.

How are you doing tonight, John? Good,

Speaker 7

good.

Speaker 6

So for this, this series of random events that bring us together tonight, cause you weren't supposed to be here tonight, but Through the course of faith you're hired tonight. And I woke up this morning and I seen this story about Hillary having a body double. That's, and then I said instantly, since I didn't have the plan guessed, sketch that was, didn't work out with them, I said I needed to talk to John about these kind of things tonight.

Is that even possible to have a body double?

Speaker 7

yeah, I've, I've, I've seen this stuff before. In fact, I just for the heck of it, I did a little research and looked on the internet, that sort of thing, just to see if they even had that kind of a thing that they were, alleging, because even Jimmy Carter had a, a guy that looked an awful lot like him, but it wasn't him. It was kind of like a, you know, propaganda thing.

It was kind of a joke. And there was a guy going around and they would, you know, it was like a Saturday Night Live, gimmick, you know, they were making a whole skit of the thing and So forth. But in an extreme cases, and I think they even did a movie years ago, where they had a guy that, allegedly had a double. I can't even think of the, actor's name, but they played that routine.

So if you figure they can go around, they can go through the computer, they can find somebody somewhere that looks like the guy, they may end up recruiting him at the last minute in case there's a special threat. But that's, that's almost like pure Hollywood, you know? But people do take things to the extreme. You know, it's like this recent activity and so on and so forth.

But I'll, I'll let you ask some of those questions and get into it. But so far, I have not seen a legitimate, thing. It's mostly Hollywood.

Speaker 6

Yeah, I was gonna say, it ki- it's kind of scary to think about that they're, you know, playing charades with people, but I mean, based off what we know, well, anything's possible. But I, I guess my, I guess I should back it up a step because how that all went down, how she just kind of left and went to her daughter's apartment, does that make any sense to you? If she was having a medical condition, does it make any sense for her to go to her daughter's apartment?

Speaker 7

Well, that's not out of character for somebody to do that. It's just that they're alleging that she supposedly went there and there was no Secret Service around. Now that I would question. There has been occasions where some of the, past former first families and or presidents, I think, Richard Nixon comes up, comes to mind, where he would literally just walk out towards the front gate and yell at the, Secret Service guys, hey, open up the damn gate, and they better open it up.

But if they did, you'd better get up off your, you know, you know, chair if you're sitting, which I would doubt that you'd be doing, and you'd better grab a radio if you didn't have one, and you'd better grab a, another type of a weapon or something and start going with it. And, in fact, I covered, First Lady Rosalyn Carter when they first came in.

She came out the front door with portico, which is not too common, and she wanted to see one of her, visitors off to the gate, like they would in any southern home or most other, families where you'd see somebody off, you know. You don't just say, okay, there's the door, have a nice day, and that's it. And I had to stand between her and the, Pennsylvania Avenue to make sure she was blocked, or in case somebody was in across the street or something, you know, with a gun or whatever.

But, eventually the agent came running out, you know, he was trying to put his coat on. So obviously he has coat off, maybe he was in the, washroom or something. But, Nixon would just walk right off, you know, and if they went, yeah, if he did that, then, you know, you don't know who's outside the gate. And it's true. Let me emphasize that.

There are people outside the gate. There are people who work for foreign countries. There are crazy people that go out there just to be there, hope for that one chance to see the president or something. And we've had incidents before where guys were out there with guns. there was one guy particularly who had an AK-47, and, somebody luckily tackled the guy when he was trying to reload to another magazine or clip or whatever.

Speaker 6

there's so many questions like that, that brings, that brings that up. But I, I want to go back to Hillary for a minute. No Secret Service around her. And that's, A, that kind of, that kind of bothers me, and B, how much of a nightmare is it for the random detour?

Speaker 7

For the what?

Speaker 6

The random detour, because obviously that wasn't planned for her to go over there, so to reshuffle everything and move where you were going.

Speaker 7

That's easy, you know. I'll get some background noise here. well, first off, if you saw her recently where she allegedly came out of the, memorial, reception that she was attending, and she wasn't feeling good, there was a ton of agents, men, one, at least one female agent, and when she got up to as far as the van, they opened up the door, and then she started to crave her and maybe stumble a little bit.

She was weak, obviously, but people trying to read into that, they're acting like, oh, they're trying to surround her and prevent the news media. Well, maybe or maybe not, but they, they had her covered really well, you know, so that means that if they were doing their job, not anybody could just rush in there, but then I noticed a couple of uniform, police officers from another agency came up pretty close.

They must have been somebody who was coordinating traffic or doing something else. You know, maybe they were gonna ask if she needed an ambulance or not, or, tell the escort, you know, cause they usually use police escorts that are local, so they know exactly where to go, straight to the nearest, hospital or the nearest route, you know, to take absent some driver that, Secret Service driver that's just gonna go like, you know, crazy out of the area, not knowing which way to go sometimes.

But, it all looked pretty normal. It's not normal for what she was going through, but, you know, it looked pretty normal on Secret Service's reaction. And that's what gets me, is a lot of people, they don't know, but they wanna throw all these theories and weird suppositions and, and conjecture in there, and they don't know what they're talking about.

Speaker 6

Well, I guess my, my thought when I seen her, like, fainting is, well, of course they were close to her because she wasn't under her own power. What do, what is she, what are we supposed to do, let her fall? I mean, anybody that's kind of weak like that, we don't let them fall, let alone if it's Secret Service or... Well, of

Speaker 7

course not. In fact, I would criticize the Secret Service or somebody who should have been a staff person or somebody when she was, climbing up the stairs to Air Force, one or maybe one of the other alternate planes or whatever that she was, flying on, and she did stumble or trip over that first step, cause it, you know, if you're, if you're, if you know how the planes are configured, you come off the step, and then you have to, it's like going on board of a ship, a military ship.

If you don't duck your head and, you know, raise your feet the first time, you're gonna get your ankle, you know, clipped there, and you're gonna hit your head, so you kinda have to duck and raise your legs a little bit. In secret, and that's an actual, case for it to happen. So I'm surprised they don't have people holding her arm, but Hillary has a propensity for not liking Secret Service and, and so forth in the past, and that's indicated by a, a friend of mine named Gary J.

Burns, B I R E S, wrote a book, Crisis of Character, which I want to throw a little plug in for him, because he's seen Hillary and stuff firsthand up close, and they used to say some pretty nasty things, but the Secret Service, and then Chelsea supposedly supported us with the Secret Service, and at, you know, at that time, you know, so it's, it's conflicting reports.

Speaker 6

I'm going to ask these next two questions seemingly out of order, but it's just because it's kind of following how it's following.

Speaker 7

You,

Speaker 6

you talked about Nixon going out the front gate. Well, you've, you told me the other day about people jumping the fence.

Speaker 7

Oh, yeah. That's a, that's a normal occurrence. I mean, you, I was there for, over, a little over three years. I worked at the foreign embassy division first, foreign missions division. We protected all the embassies, you know, Israeli, the Russian. You know, there's some high-profile embassies. We had coverage at the Russian embassy. We had at least two, three guys there all the time.

You know, that's a big deal, especially when you're talking the hot summer or the very freezing cold wintertime. And, but anyway, there's always some sort of activity. But back to answer your question, what was it you were

Speaker 6

saying? I was asking about people jumping over the fence, let alone people...

Speaker 7

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had occasion to intercept a couple of jumpers myself, and one guy had a briefcase, tall black guy, in a business suit, from the South Lawn area, and he's setting off these alarms, and I was the first one to respond, so I had to pull my gun out, told him to drop the briefcase, I'm c- I'm communicating with him, you know, what's in the briefcase? He said, it was just papers, what's your name? And he's, he's responding, he, he doesn't understand some of the questions, cause I'm asking him certain questions, but I want to know who I'm gonna shoot, you know, that kind of thing.

You know, and, and he's giving me answers, so I had to put him in cuffs and then escort him away. And then, of course, we took the briefcase, checked it out to make sure there was nothing inside. We'd actually had to do all that stuff. Cause you don't know. He could have a biological weapon in there and it would have been all over for everybody, you know.

But, I missed a shooting incident by about five minutes on the shift, on a eleven to seven shift, and the guy I was removing, well, we had a long briefing, so it was like ten to fifteen minutes after the hour, and we should have been out of there by five minutes, you know. So he ended up shooting the guy that was a black, taxi driver. Charles Plummer was his name, and I've tried to look it up, but I don't think it's even on the internet, but that's, that's just one of many things that they don't put in the, news, you know.

But he had a, allegedly had a pipe or a pipe bomb or something in his hand, so he ordered the guy to drop it, and he kept advancing, so he shot him one time, and, that was it. So I was out there after, after all that. Hundred minutes, and I was in upstate New York for a couple hours while the bright lights were all on, cause they had to come out and do a crime scene type of thing.

But they just had a couple of shootings, in the last, several months where guys were coming up to them with guns openly, and they were walking right up to the outside of the fence trying to get in or something, or to attack, or whatever they were gonna do. And one guy, I think, I think they both survived. See, that's what's weird, is that the training knows you drop em.

You know, two to the chest, one to the head. That's the training. So I'm sitting here, why did he just shoot him once? And it wasn't even in the chest, it was in the stomach or something, so it was a bad shot.

Speaker 6

Well, that was something I was gonna, I, I sit here thinking about, is I hear these stories of these police shootings, and we're talking, you, you said three shots, and I hear sixteen, I think the one had eighteen, I mean, it just seems Why, why such a disparity? Because you were on the beat for a while, right, in San, San Diego, and then...

Speaker 7

Well, I did, I was on the beat in San Diego afterwards. Okay. My first, my first hardcore experience was in Washington, D.C. Washington, D.C. is a very high crime rate. We had, we had some Muslim guy throwing heads out of a window in a building even back then, and it was kind of unheard of, but even in seventy-four, there was a major, homicide, not to bring up Muslims tonight, but, it just so happened that that's what it was.

So the, the, ratios of blacks versus whites versus foreigners and so on and so forth is predominantly, black, but you got a lot of government workers and stuff like that that have been there for years. But they've got all kinds of activity there. You know, I mean, in fact, they just had a recent shooting where there was a white, a staff member or somebody related to the campaign or related to the, Hillary Clinton thing or something, and that guy was, literally killed on the street.

They, they're trying to rule out robbery or something. And it wasn't a robbery, the guy was killed, so somebody got assassinated. You know what I mean? That's, that's almost a showing in of itself, you know, the body count thing that's going on.

Speaker 6

That's, that's another mystery that I haven't looked into enough, but it's, man, I, I don't even want to talk about it, cause I don't want to be part of it.

Speaker 7

Yeah.

Speaker 6

Scary. Okay, so, like I said, I told you I was working backwards in the wrong direction. Tell me a little bit more about the training that a, a Secret Service agent go, undergoes, because it, see, how many Secret Service agents are there? There's not many.

Speaker 7

A lot of them.

Speaker 6

Well, in, in the grand scheme of things, there's not many, though.

Speaker 7

Well, let me, let me explain. Back in the day, in '74, I was one out of fifteen hundred qualified applicants that got the position. I don't want to brag, but I've seen some people that I was in competition with that got the job, and I didn't think they were qualified. But that's just how the selection process went, and that was a very select group.

So you can imagine how small that is compared to the rest of the Secret Service nationwide, which handles other investigations, compared to even a local large law enforcement agency like, AAPD or something. And it's, it's quite a bit different. The numbers are different. So you can figure you've got an agent in charge, you've got an aid, a team of agents in, most of the major cities.

So they can do investigations. But the ones that go to the presidential protection detail or division, TPD, that's special group in and of itself right there. So you've got six to ten, fifteen, or twenty guys at any time on a detail going around with the president, or maybe a couple going with the, first lady. See, they, they automatically cut it down, and then so many for each kid or, or child that may have to go out and go to school or do whatever.

But those numbers are kind of kept close to the, vest there. They don't want to give out a bunch of numbers too much either. But that's understandable. That's kind of a security area, so we don't really go into too much detail about it.

Speaker 6

Right. Well, I get it. But, okay, okay, so there was fifteen hundred new cla- Oh, so that's, yeah, I'm kind of right, because as you get through the process, it, it does break out into smaller groups. So, yeah.

Speaker 7

My, my background alone took, nine to ten months, and, and that was right after I graduated out of college. After three years, I had two degrees and, got into that. But, I had to drive back east. We went to a major, training center, which was in D.C. at that time, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, or FLETC. I'm sure there's a few former and current, law enforcement officials that know what I'm talking about.

And then later, when, Carter came into, presidency, he had a, military base that was down in Glencoe, Georgia, which is an acronym for Glenn County, and that's where they had the FLETC relocated down there because it was, excuse me, because they had full of, room for classrooms, dorms, a major cafeteria, that sort of thing. And, and you could go run on base, you know, you could run a couple miles.

No problem. And I think they even had an airfield. So it was like a, an alternate, base for training. And we trained outside the, country too. We trained people from other countries like Panamanian police back in eighty-nine when, Noriega was taken out. But, after that, eighteen weeks, then you would go to six weeks, eight weeks of specialized training up in Beltsville, which they renamed after another former agent, Rowley.

And you would go through specialized training, and they would hook you up on the history of Secret Service, previous assassinations and the attempts, you know, Lincoln's assassination with John Wilkes Booth and all kinds of things. And they would even touch on the JFK thing and the Warren Commission report, which is in and of itself an interesting response because the official agency Respondents at that time in seventy-four was the warrant commissioner report was the answer.

So if you have any questions, they referred you to the warrant commissioner report, which to me is full of lies and, speculation, and they only point out the lone gunman theory, which is totally inaccurate. And if you want to go as far as say it's cover-up, also it's cover-up. And that's it. And they showed there's a proof film, which is the altered tape, not the accurate one, which showed a lot more blood and gore and, the spatter and stuff like that.

So they, you know, frame three thirteen. I keep remembering frame three thirteen. That's a lot different than the original. So you just go with the flow and go, okay. You know, if you take orders, that's one thing, but if it looks like you're being obvious about it, And your verbal resistance. But anyway, you go through the, eight hours a day, you go through, several laws, you go through the basic training, you go through, report writing to observation techniques to, explosives.

we even have a special trip, field day to the thing down to Quantico. You know, had specialized training with, the EOD, Explosive Ordnance Division, which was the Marine Corps, and, a lot of other techniques, counterterrorism. I mean, Carlos the Jackal was out at about, at that time, how to handle or identify explosives up to the point of even letter bombs, which is what they were using at that time.

And then eventually you get to do all the fun stuff. we did the, a little bit of self-defense, physical type stuff, and we got into Firearms, which is a major part, and once they got you into that, you pretty much finished all the basic stuff. The firearms was very intensive, and you're doing eight hours a day. that's pretty intensive, especially with the weather.

So right around that time, it was getting colder. September, October, November, December, right around there. And you're shooting with bare hands in the cold, in the rain and cold, and or snow sometimes. handguns, shoulder arms, shotguns, Remington, shotguns, and, and Uzis at that time.

Speaker 6

And then, I, I know you've told me through the course of being there, you shot quite often as well on your daily grind.

Speaker 7

Columbus has the highest, yeah, they have the highest requirement in that even after you pass the academy, Into the next month, you gotta qualify every thirty days. On your own, go to the range, qualify, and then, you know, go back to work. And, at some points in time, you could go twenty-four seven if you wanted to, cause they had a range downtown, even after the midnight show, after whatever, and, you could go do that, and then, you know, drive home, go to sleep, you're on the midnight show.

But, then they had quarterly qualifications requirements, and then, semi-annual, and then annual. So you could feasibly go twelve times in a year, plus the semi-annual, plus the annual. So that's at least, fourteen times easily. Unless you're specialized training or something else comes up, then you might even do some more. But that's more than most police agencies, and they only have you go, like, maybe a couple of times a year, you know, after the academy.

That's not enough.

Speaker 6

As I say, that's a lot of shooting. I'm just running down the numbers here. That's just a lot of shooting. A lot of good shooting, too.

Speaker 7

Well, if you're familiar with the handling of, the revolvers back then, some of the, special reloading phases that we used were adopted by the FBI and, and all these other major agencies. And if you knew what you were doing, you fired off six rounds real quick, you slammed that ejector thing off to the left to get rid of the brass off to your left, and then you're reloading real quick in front of you, slamming that thing back into place in the frame, and you got it up there raised in less than three to five seconds.

That's if you're fast or, you know, pretty good. And I've seen, I've seen some, experts beyond that. You know, that's beyond distinguished that, that's real. field, combat shooting, you know, but that's, that's some, that's a different realm.

Speaker 6

Blowing my mind the way I was thinking about how fast you're trying to do all that stuff, and I'm try, I'm, I'm picturing it with my hands, and I think I just handcuffed myself. I'm not sure. so you, you mentioned, you mentioned the JFK thing, and I, I, I, it's very tentative to ask you this question, but I'm going to anyways. So if you don't have an answer, you don't want to comment on it, I understand, but I'm going to ask you anyways.

What happened to, what happened to his brain? Where did, where did that end up at?

Speaker 7

Well, that's, that's a good question, and that's not something I would know. There's a lot of speculation and information that was switched out, that there was, there was an attempt to switch the bodies at some point, and I've, I've done the research since I was a kid, and I've paid attention to a lot of things. You know, it's a good point she's very blackout because the JFK limousine was still there in the garage at the Secret Service location at where I was, stationed at in DC.

It's been since moved. So I got to actually see the actual limousine after it was cleaned up, of course, and, we had our little kind of a special briefing about it, and, apparently there was some damage to the front windshield. Well, it takes away the whole theory about the lone gunman from the rear and Oswald and all that, that they were going to take the body, put it under the casket, put it in a vehicle or on a helicopter, and transport it immediately to Bethesda for an autopsy so they could figure out what's going on.

And apparently they didn't do it that way. They wanted to put it on a vehicle, which would have given them time to do a switch, would have taken them half an hour to get through traffic. Twenty minutes to a half hour to go from Andrews Air Force Base all the way over to Bethesda, and they normally could have just taken a helicopter, but Jackie Kennedy also insisted on going with the body, so that also threw them off.

So it seemed like there was a, a concerted effort to do something that wasn't right, and I, I have bad feelings about that, cause I, I, I start to think that Secret Service was involved, minus all the other BS theories that people try to, convince you of, you know, like maybe the driver, passenger, or one of the Secret Service guys with an M16 or some of, you know, there's just too many witnesses, and they didn't see that.

So That didn't happen, but behind the scenes, there was manipulation going on.

Speaker 6

Yeah, it's, it's the details. It's like the p- the brain getting taken out of his head and seemingly getting lost. It's the, rush, the rush out

Speaker 7

of... Go ahead. I'm sorry, let me interject real quick before I forget. Part of the reason it's missing is this, and this is my theory, and I put it together with stuff like Sir Eric, I know Sir Eric, he's a nationally known forensic pathologist, and he's friends with a couple of other people in the media that I know that, that have books together.

You know, Officer Tibbett had a, had a very unique likeness to the president, and when he was killed, somebody suggested that they used his body to switch it so they could move the real president somewhere else and all these other theories. Part of the reason why the, the brain was missing, in my opinion, was they didn't use regular bullets.

They had mercury-tipped bullets, which means you're gonna have mercury Throughout on a headshot, so if somebody were to do an actual autopsy and take x-rays, they would see that there's mercury inside the, whole skull area of the room. The room was altered so many times that you couldn't tell which way it was all backwards. But that's one of the things I come up with, because the shrapnel to the bullet would be different than the bullet that they claim came from a Mannlicher Carcano 7 point whatever it was, you know, size, bullet.

You know, that's all set up. You know, that's decoy stuff. And a lot of the assassination attempts, since we're talking a little bit about it, touches in on the fact that that's what they want you to believe. The lone gunman, focus on that guy on the ground, and yet they get snipers up in the, the, up, up high, they get off to the left, the right, and down in the storm drain covers.

But focus on that one guy in front of you. Disarmate. That's the target. That's the bad guy. That's all a ruse. It's, it's a cover-up.

Speaker 6

And the other part of the story that makes me laugh every time I hear it is about Kennedy not wanting the bubble top. I'm thinking, it's like eighty-five degrees. I wouldn't want it either. I'd want some fresh air, but it's amazing how that all gets twisted into the theory. It wasn't going to stop a bullet anyways.

Speaker 7

The story on that was allegedly that Kennedy didn't, particularly care for the bubble because of the weather. It was nice out. It had previously rained or something, maybe a day before or, or, or whatever the timeframe was. And it is November, so it was in the cooler months, so it should have been okay, but, I think one of the other agents got into it, the senior agents, and those are the guys that make all the decisions.

Somebody in the staff made the decision. It wasn't Secret Service, I think. I think it was another staff member saying something about they didn't want the bubble to have it taken off or whatever, and then they took it off. they've got other pictures of Kennedy with outside visitors from other countries that were wearing or, with the bubble on the vehicle.

And at that time, that was pretty high, high-class security type stuff. I can't even remember when they put the bulletproof glass in, because that stuff is like six inches deep, you know, for the Oval Office. You can hit it with another PG and it wouldn't do anything. But that's back then, but they didn't have the same technology in the seventies that they did in '63.

That's where they made a lot of mistakes ever since they had parade routes, they start welding off all the, storm drain covers. You have to ask the question, why are they doing that? That's exactly what we're doing for all kinds of reasons, for bombs, for snipers, for all kinds of things. So there's a lot to be considered.

Speaker 6

Yeah, that's a lot, there's a lot to go that goes through just going for a little ride through the city. Wow. Okay, so, Chadra brought, asked me to ask you this question. How was the morale of the Secret Service then compared to now? Because you mentioned Hillary being a little rough on them. Obviously, you probably don't have a great pulse on it now, but can you compare them?

Speaker 7

Well, I'm not sure, I'm not sure I understand what you meant. Could you say that again?

Speaker 6

That, like how people in, in the Secret Service feel about being Secret Service officers, because I'm assuming you had a great sense of pride back then, but now it seems like maybe the people aren't nec, the people you're protecting aren't necessarily happy you're protecting them?

Speaker 7

Yeah, it depends on who you've got. I mean, back when I was there, they acted like, You're doing a job, but they didn't reward you. I mean, if I work a job, I want to be rewarded for doing a good job, and I did. I apprehended bench jumpers, I arrested people who made threats in the, in the, tour lines, I protected VIPs and, and special, dignitaries and heads of state.

I was there protecting, President Carter and Warsadot and Menachem Begin in a hallway away from the state dining room area where normally they would be in the Oval Office. And the reason why he wasn't in the Oval Office is probably because the place is being recorded. So they couldn't sit there and have an honest, confidential discussion about certain things, cause everything was recorded.

I mean, you could go back and ask Nixon, hey, were you recorded in the back of the 18 minutes? Yes, he was. You know, so that's interesting in and of itself. But I did so many things there, and I'm just going like, gee, I'm, I'm, I'm getting paid eleven thousand six hundred dollars a year, and by the time I left, it was fifteen thousand six hundred bucks or something like that a year.

That's nothing. And yet I was dedicated, and that's the, that's the job. You're dedicated, you're highly trained, you're doing a special job, and you're supposed to jump in front of a bullet or something to save, save these, you know, special protectees, or principals, as, as a lot of guys call it. And, people don't understand all that stuff.

They only see a part of it. They only see what's on TV or what's at your local movie. In the line of fire is a good movie. the Sentinel's another one. Each time they keep coming out with more and more information, but they still don't tell you everything, you know. But it's, it's a dedication. It, it takes a special kind of person to do that.

Some guys will do the job for years and never even put their gun, except at the range. Look at

Speaker 6

that, how, how, what's the career span like? Do they turn out, is it turn

Speaker 7

out? That's a twenty, that's a twenty year job. So when I went in at twenty one, and I, and I'm sitting here going, how many of these kids out here on the street are twenty one and they're not doing anything? They didn't prepare, they're, they're not even in college, a lot of them. Some of them are in college, that's good. But I already, I already went to college since I was eighteen.

I didn't stop, I kept going. I, I went to college, I applied, I got the job. I was doing stuff, you know. I was at the peak of my career or my health, you know, physically and all that stuff. So, if you do twenty years, you'll be out by forty, forty one. Then you can go do another career or Do another kind of job, kick back, but you're not really gonna, you know, survive too much on retirement.

And, you know, I did, I did a lot of time in law enforcement, so I was like, no, it doesn't stop. Here I am doing radio shows, I'm trying to finish a book, you know, I'm trying to inform the public about the corruption and so on and so forth, and, things have changed over the years, you know, and there, by the way, there is a special entity in the Secret Service, and even in one of the retired agency, membership, oh, I don't know if you wanna call it a club, it's, association, that's what we call it, it's an association of former Secret Service agents and officers or whatever.

And, it turns out that some of these guys were actually covering up and trying to protect the integrity of the family or the persons of the office of the president. More than you even ever think about, you know, and I, I'm not gonna mention Mr. Burns, but there's a good book, you know, Crisis of Character, he's talking about some of, you know, through a virus, which is probably some two hundred year old virus that Thomas Jefferson had or something, and that got broken up, and, Monica Lewinsky's dress was another issue and all those other things, but I think Bill Clinton was, quoted as coming out with a sore eye one day.

You don't see it, you don't see it, the media's not gonna get access to it, and they're gonna try and cover that up for their own reasons, but I don't believe in that. I mean, some things are normal if they treat you humanely, that's one thing, but, if, if it's out in the open, you do what you can to protect anyway, so protect covers a lot of territory, if you know what I mean.

Right, well,

Speaker 6

that's what I'm saying you're thinking. Where's that line at between Protecting, like, the interests of the agency and the American people versus protecting the interests of the, we'll say, family member for this case.

Speaker 7

And I took an oath, and then all these other guys and ladies took, took an oath, but they're also federal officers, and they're not supposed to lie, and they're not supposed to cover up, and when I, I'm not, I hate to pick on the Monica Lewinsky incident, but when they were impeaching Bill Clinton and they asked the guy about what he was doing in the Oval Office and he denied having, relations with this woman in the Oval Office, the guy, the attorney should have followed up with the next question, which was, well, what about inside the study next door? Then you would have gotten a reaction.

He didn't ask the question. See, these attorneys are either really stupid, and some of them are, or they're very smart, thinking they're smart, and they're gonna skip that and overlook it because the American public won't, they won't tag it. They won't identify it, but I worked there. And they tried to get the officers, the Secret Service guys that worked there, who kept a log and get them to refrain from testifying under executive privilege, and they're not under executive privilege.

They're federal law enforcement officials. If they get a subpoena and they get asked a question, they better testify as to what they know, especially if it's not a, national security issue. And here's the real fun twist, is that if they ask a question that's out of their clearance, they can't ask it, and I don't have to tell them.

Speaker 6

I'm sitting here thinking, yeah, I follow that one. There's a lot going through my mind right now, which is dangerous because... If

Speaker 7

you don't have top secret clearance, I don't have to talk to you.

Speaker 6

But, okay, I, well, I want to go back to the study next to the Oval Office. I, I've, I, I know that for some reason, but I'm guessing that isn't recorded, or is that recorded over there too?

Speaker 7

Call me however you want to be recorded. you can bet that. But that's as far as I'm gonna say, you know, but, I mean, if you, if you, if you've seen the Oval Office, if you've been there like I have, you can imagine there's three entrances to the Oval Office, and, one is the secretary, that's closed door. The other side to the mansion side is closed, that's secured by Secret Service, and then there's a third one, which is roped off usually, that's the Secret Service officer.

They pay all the time of day, and if he's in there, the door's usually closed. Unless he gets a guest, then, then it's opened up or he comes out or does whatever. And then you got that study, which is next door, that's a totally separate entrance where the bathroom, toilet, telephone, a desk, bookshelves, you know, a small entertainment system, so you can go in there and hide out and Kick back and listen to, music if he wants to.

And that's kind of a tiny, well, probably about ten by ten feet, I'm guessing right now. I haven't looked at the actual dimensions, but I'd say about ten by ten, maybe something like that. And I've been in there when they have Zbigniew Brzezinski, and they're giving some sort of a brief to some media, and they shoved him in that little room with cameras.

And I'm going, my God, that's so close you could reach out and touch him within three or four feet, you know? Not to mention to look at a top secret document he had sitting in his hand, and I go, well, that's a separate issue. So,

Speaker 6

Well, having never been in the, the Oval Office, can you just describe how grand it is to the person who's ever been there?

Speaker 7

Is it everything that you think it is

Speaker 6

when you see it on TV, like these movies, is it that kind of elaborate, or is it just kind of more of an office that doesn't have corners?

Speaker 7

Oh, no. Oh, no, it's, it's very impressive. In fact, when I first, I remember seeing a special for Disneyland, and they had some sort of, tour across America thing, and you're watching this thing, and it's going on a special tour. They actually went to D.C., and you could see the White House. It was pretty impressive, and it's very large, but when you see it in person, it's still impressive.

I mean, it's an outrageous, I forget how many, three or four thousand acres or something. It's huge. And if you can imagine, I stood at the North Portico on duty on midnight or during the day or whatever. That's, that's a big area, you know. But, it's quite impressive, and it's not just one part of the building. You've got other, areas that, mostly working and living quarters, and there's all kinds of stuff going on there.

I mean, it's almost like a miniature city, almost as if it was on an aircraft carrier, because You know, you, you know, you've got access to almost everything you can think of. They've got their own theater, they get their, well, they had a, Canad, Canada used to have a, small, lengthy pool type thing where you could do laps, and then Nixon came in later and they changed it to a bowling alley, so they had a bowling alley, which is technically where the, press corps is.

Later, they put a swimming pool in the back of the, mansion west wing area, which is over by the Oval Office, but it's hidden by a bunch of trees. but, yeah, they've got all kinds of stuff there. I mean, they've got access to a major kitchen, one for the private quarters upstairs, and if they want to do a state dinner, they got to have this huge amount of staff to do the other stuff.

Or they can go next door and go to the cafeteria where a lot of the staffers go to eat, you know, cause you've got an office building right next door, which is the only war department. The executive office building, EOB, they have a new EOB across the street, and they get the Blair House. So when, Truman was sort of kicked out of the White House temporarily because they had some sort of construction going on, he'd go across the street to the Blair House, which is a smaller kind of a street apartment building type of setup.

And, that, there's a lot of history behind that, building as well.

Speaker 6

Fascinating. Okay, so before, we were talking a few minutes before the show, and you brought up John Hinckley. And I want to get, I want to, we got to get there, I want to get there because we got to get there because I want to get to this other, this best ghost story I've ever heard. We're going to get to Hinckley first, though.

Speaker 7

Yeah, we got about, what, fifteen minutes, I think. Yeah, so. Hinckley's next-gen situation. And, sometimes I tell a story about when, when I was on patrol outside the White House on a night shift, which is usually the midnight shift, eleven to seven, me and a partner of mine, we just happened to be in the area, so we stopped off to see how the guys were doing at the White House, and we didn't even have access to the White House at that time because we weren't assigned to them.

You see the difference? I could be in all of D.C., protect embassies, and put my life on the line for all those other things, and when Kissinger was out, I was near there, or ambassadors, and, and all kinds of stuff that was going on. but if I had to go to the White House, I'd have to have special clearance and a special badge, and, be able to know where I'm going to get through wherever I had to go.

So I wouldn't normal procedure. But anyway, I was on patrol, and here's this young guy, and we used to have an old lady that would sit there, and we called her Crazy Mary, and she'd sit there with her shopping cart, and she's all bundled up. Like November, December or something, so it's Canada. And, this young man came up to me, you know, about five foot ten, clean shaven, straight brown hair, may have had glasses or not, it's been a while.

And he was talking some crazy stuff about, yeah, he wanted to see the president. Oh, really? What do you want to say about it? You know, so then that was the communication that you have to engage yourself with somebody, maybe to evaluate them. Not intentionally, but I ended up doing it. And, he started talking about some strange stuff about, microwaves and, sexually related, terminology that I won't say on the airwaves.

And then he brought up something about Jodie Foster, and I thought, God, that guy, you know, he's, he's got some weird ideas. And there was a movie that had come out right around the same timeframe was Taxi Driver. So if you haven't seen Taxi Driver, Jodie Foster's in it, Robert De Niro, and there was some other stuff about seeing the president that gets Tie in with that movie that you probably need to look at and kind of think, maybe this guy saw the movie several dozen times, and he can't get it out of his head or something.

So I turned him over to the duty agent who was supposed to interview him, and had him admitted to St. Elizabeth's Hospital, which is my training, and I'd been trained to evaluate people for stuff like that, and, apparently he wasn't taken there. And then that was 1976, and that's when Ford was in office, then Carter, and then it goes on and on.

Well, five years later, it was 1981, and that's when Reagan got shot. That was John W. Hinckley. There's, there's your climactic statement right there. I interviewed John Hinckley. Why didn't he get put in? I don't know. The agent screwed up.

Speaker 6

That, that, see, that's the fascinating thing, and we were just talk, like I said, we, we were just talking, he got out Of wherever what...

Speaker 7

About a couple of days ago, after about, what, thirty-six years or something.

Speaker 6

And do you... This is gonna be a, a very subjective question, but do you think he should be out?

Speaker 7

Excuse me?

Speaker 6

Do you think he should be out, or should he just... Where's your thoughts on that?

Speaker 7

Well, I, I don't know, because I don't have the information, I haven't interviewed him, I'm not doing the follow-ups. I mean, it's pretty intensive. If he, if he was under control by somebody else before, then that's, that's a problem. And I've heard all kinds of theories about that. And if he's safe, and he has no indications that he's gonna, you know, write letters to Jodie Foster again or do all those other things, he's under a lot of restrictions.

He can't drive outside thirty miles without, without his, parent or guardian or something. That he's only allowed to go out so much, and he still has to check in and go to weekly or, I think it's weekly meetings, and he has to, some sort of other type of service. so they've got him monitored, you know, but the guy's still within the DC area, that's what's interesting.

it just depends. Some people change over time, and I think they deserve a chance, and some people don't, they're messed up and they'll never change. Then they need to be on medication, they need to be under observation. If it's really bad, then, you know, maybe they need to be in a more controlled environment. I don't agree with certain prison aspects, and they do have, mental prisons and so forth, but if they're psychologically messed up, then they're not responsible for themselves, so they need extra special care.

I don't think kind of answers your question, but... It does. You kind of came around

Speaker 6

to it. You, you don't have enough information. I understand that. But I was wondering if you were just having a blanket yes or no, he should be in prison for life. And I, based, based, based off what you just told me, I'm going to say no. I

Speaker 7

was

Speaker 6

going to say, based off

Speaker 7

what... I don't think he's the one that shot Reagan. I think somebody else shot Reagan. I think there was more than one shooter, and that's what they want you to believe. Because, oh, I can't think of this guy's name. I think I mentioned this guy's name before.

Speaker 6

Oh, you did, Jones? John Jones?

Speaker 7

John? No, not Jones. It was John something. He, he also estimated, and they watched the film, and they estimated that by the time he had already finished his shots, Reagan had not been shot, and by the time Reagan was shot, it was not with a bullet, and they did not recover a bullet. They recovered a flechette. Desk of some sort, some sort of a alternate projectile that people don't get.

That's CIA stuff. That's back when church was doing the, Senate House committee hearings on the CIA and assassinations, you know?

Speaker 6

Good stuff, yes, I agree. It's just remarkable to think about that here we are again with more than one shooter, even though we've been told there's been only one.

Speaker 7

It's, it's, it's, it's almost historical, it's almost American, you know? They try to sell you the idea, like, as far back as John Wilkes Booth, and then there was a guy who shot, McKinley, I think, and a few others. There's always a bunch of people behind it, it's just that they don't catch up to them until later, or That's the biggest, part is they throw the one in front of you.

It's an interesting candidate type of thing, or, Parallax View, that was an interesting movie. That was, Warren Beatty, that was a good movie. But you have to go through all those old movies that nobody thinks about back in the sixties and seventies, the earlier time frame, because that's when they were reacting to the Kennedy assassination in sixty-three.

Then, Executive Action was a movie, I think, that came out and discussed a lot of these things. I think Oliver Stone just did, did another one, and there was another movie, but he, he gave certain information that indicated certain things and, and, misgivings about the investigations, and the Warren Commissioner part is, is a total, cover-up.

Even Ford himself came out and made some statements, and he believed that, Harvey Oswald was not, the only shooter. People in the regular people. Of course there was. I know people today, right now, just as a matter of my contacts and, and so forth, there's, there's a couple of people I know that have admitted that they were there that day, and that's, that's miraculous, and they're still living, you know.

there's a lot of, people like that. Military, CIA, and, maybe other people outside the area.

Speaker 6

Okay, so I'm gonna give you a chance to promote your website before we tell the story, cause we're gonna get this all in.

Speaker 7

Yeah, my website doesn't really talk about Secret Service so much, cause my focus is...

Speaker 6

Well, we'll get people there

Speaker 7

anyway, so. Oh, no, I was just explaining. but, but it's customscorruption.com, plural. Or you could look up my name, John Carman, C A R M A N. I joke with people, I say, don't Google John Carman, you know, C A R M A N, and then, custom decryption dot com, don't Google that, you know, and then that's kind of a psychological reverse psychology thing, but it's, it's, it's kind of a friendly joke intended.

if they do it right, they'll see a lot of information, but I've been holding back for years, and that's why these guys, they, they don't do it, because they think that by keeping a secret, they're gonna go to the grave with their secrets and stuff. I said, you know what, if they're doing something illegal, we'll better for that. Our country should be better than, than some other country, third world country, where they're doing outrageous stuff, and we should be better than them.

So if there's a problem, we need to fix it, we need to reward the people that are identifying these problems. And sort of covering them up and trying to get, you know, backstabbing type, activity going on and people fighting over, over things, you know, but that's what they do. They, they'll still do it today, and, I, I think the lady Julia Pierce was the last female director or the first female director.

They finally got rid of her, and, and she was a token. She, she wasn't a real agent, she was just a token. It's like all the stuff since EEOC and since the sixties. Yeah, we gotta have a white, we gotta have a black, we gotta have a female, a Hispanic, and recently we probably have to have a, a transgendered LGBT classification for somebody just because they feel like, you know, they need to be considered.

Well, if they can, if they can jump tall buildings in a single bound and jump in front of bullets, yeah, I'll hire them. I'll go with that. You know, it should be an equal opportunity employment thing, right?

Speaker 6

Hey, I think it makes the world go round, I guess. Okay, so tell, tell the, tell my listeners the story you told me. I, I know you told me earlier it's a little bit weak, but when I ask you the follow-up questions I asked you earlier, it'll become a lot clearer.

Speaker 7

Oh, yeah. well, so, somebody brought this up on some other radio show, and I'm not gonna mention names or nothing, but I actually called in, and these people should have known who I was, I've talked to them before, and for some reason, the, the guest that they had on was talking about certain history of the White House and some other subjects related, and I actually handled the, surgical tools When I was in Japan in school by an army sergeant general who was a actual, army general who had the actual, low bone ivory plugs and, and stuff that belonged to when they did the, operation on Abraham Lincoln.

Cause he didn't, he didn't die instantly. They took him back to the White House where he died. So he, he, he was, was, was there for several hours or longer, which is kinda interesting. And that was when I was in high school, which is kinda interesting. But anyway, the story comes up that, there was a, a Secret Service officer on a midnight shift who was in part of the mansion.

Normally, we're not at the top part unless we have to. We're at the bottom street, basement, and other, other areas and all the entrances and exits. And on a midnight shift, it gets pretty quiet, almost spooky. And I've actually sat in some positions where you're sitting in the dark, listening. That's all you're gonna do is sit there in the dark and listen, and if you hear something, you'll know it, even if it's a mouse.

And there was a story in a report that one of the officers saw some sort of, apparition. And the reason why I say that is because if they had seen an actual person, he'd pull his gun out and shot at the apparition, otherwise he would have had a body left over from the, shooting. And this was at the bottom basement or the street level, I should say, or the bottom floor.

And when you do something like that, that's a special deal. You pull your gun all day, but as soon as you shoot, you gotta do reports, you gotta do paperwork.

Speaker 6

So just to clarify, a Secret Service officer shot at

Speaker 7

some,

Speaker 6

shot at a...

Speaker 7

Apparition, some, some sort of a human form Walking between one part of the, hallway to the other part, and the guy was so alerted by this, he saw something enough that he pulled his gun. That's pretty significant. I mean, if you saw a blur, you're gonna go, what the hell? You know, and you're gonna look at it. You can even grab your gun, but if it's not enough to grab it, then you're questioning yourself.

You know, wake up, go get some coffee, or something's wrong. But when you actually see something, then, and actually pull your gun, then it's significant.

Speaker 6

You can only pull your gun, but fire your gun.

Speaker 7

Oh, yeah. I tell you what, I've pulled my gun over the years. I've almost had to shoot several people over the years, and it was just a matter of seconds, okay? Seconds, one, two, I mean, two seconds, less than two seconds is, is a big amount of time. And if you're pulling your gun to shoot something, it's because something is immediate danger or imminent.

So if we had to do that, and I don't, I don't remember who it was, but for him to do that, it would have to be pretty significant. If I did it myself, it would be significant. I mean, something would have had to have been there for me to try to stop it, see what it was, or do something, because you're inside the mansion. You're just like shooting in a, in a home or something, you know.

And then, of course, you have to go off duty. The guy had to do a bunch of reports. They probably sent him home for psychological evaluation and all that stuff, and that's a big deal.

Speaker 6

It's a huge deal to me because I, you know, I hear all these stories that the White House haunted, and we just confirmed it, in my opinion, because...

Speaker 7

I'll tell you, there's some spooky places at the White House that you have to think about it this way. If you're brave enough and you understand how things work, I mean, I've, I've been on top of the roof with hardly any equipment. And I'm doing counter-sniper type details, and then I'm walking around on the action at nighttime or the executive office building next door, cause it's connected, and those buildings are very old, but I don't, I don't think that way, but you can think like, like that if you want to get into it, but you're listening for any noises whatsoever while you're on your patrols and you're looking through offices.

People leave their top secret documents out on their desk, so you have to date it, time it, confiscate it, leave a special note, close the safe, lock it up, and turn it in to the supervisor, cause that's a violation, and people do that. You know, that's, that's how sloppy some people are. But, yeah, there's some interesting stuff going on there that would probably raise anybody's curiosity.

Speaker 6

Yeah, it just makes me, makes me wonder, oh, well, John, I... Unfortunately, we're at that point in the show. We knew we'd get here really quick. I've got to have you back on. We've got to talk about investigations and private investigations and all that fun stuff, but that's a whole nother show, I'm sure. So we'll get to it sometime here.

Thank you for, thank you for informing me about all kinds of Secret Service stuff tonight.

Speaker 7

Yeah, it's just real quick, you know, we could just remain.

Speaker 6

Okay, talk soon.

Speaker 7

All right, take care.

Speaker 6

And that's John Carman, again, amazing. Just to be really clear, Secret Service agent shot at, shot at a ghost at the White House. Best ghost story ever. Sorry. If you've heard a better one, I haven't. Just my opinion. Okay. My direct ad links, directadlinks.com, final thought of the night. I, I promised to tell the story a couple of weeks ago, and then I forgot to do it because we got kind of busy with some really good guests.

I'm going to try to squeeze it in tonight. At the 2001 National Boy Scout Jamboree, I had the opportunity to meet an Olympian. Now, you may say, what's the big deal? Well, the big deal is that he was trying to get to lunch, and there was a line of people. I strolled up to the front of the line, put my arm out, took him under my arm, and took, well, kind of took him to lunch.

He signed a picture for me later. Good deal. I don't remember who it was, great guy. but he was, he was trying to get out of there, he couldn't get out of there because there was a lot of people around, and I just grabbed him up and took him out. So that's my Olympic story. Not a great one at that, but a couple weeks late, even, but, you know, what can you do? That's it.

I've had enough. We're out.

Speaker 4

Truth as we are called. Well, before we flip that on-air sign to the off position, a quick reminder.

Speaker 5

For all things about the report, previews, and reviews, go to TMR

Speaker 4

24/7 dot com.

Speaker 2

Good night.