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Jason Calacanis: TikTok should be banned, Tim Cook doesn't have enough "chutzpah," and Uber will be fine

Recode Decode, hosted by Kara Swisher podcast.

March 05

How do you take a small amount of money and turn it into a very-very large amount? One way is to invest early into a company that becomes huge, goes public, and in the process makes you very wealthy. That's Capitalism for you, and that is how Jason Calacanis turned a little bit of cash into a small fortune by investing in Uber. But does he worry about the Uber prospects for the coming years? In this Recode Decode interview with Kara Swisher, Jason shares this vision, as well as a few hot takes on Amazon, TikTok, SpaceX, and growing wealth inequality. Irresistibly, he also makes fun of Scott Galloway.

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No. This episode is brought to you by season two of Business School. A podcast by synchrony, this brand new season business school is hosted by Business co founder and investor Saraya Do Robbie, who meets with eight entrepreneurs who have pushed past their start up days to hit new levels of success. Now is the perfect time to dive in with all eight episodes available for download in time to provide new insights and strategies for a brand new year downloaded. Subscribe to season to business school wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Kara Swisher, editor at Large of Recode. You may know me as someone who's contractually required to get in a Twitter fight with Jason Calacanis every month, but in my spare time, I'm just a reporter and you're listening to Rico decode a podcast about power. Change of the people you need to know. We're part of the box Media Podcast network today. In the red chair, of course,

is Jason Callahan is He's an investor and entrepreneur and occasionally almost always a pain in the ass. But seriously, Jason is the CEO of an email newsletter company. Inside the host of the podcast, this week and start ups and way back in the Stone Age he co founded the company called Web Laws. He also ran something called Silicon Alley Insider Will talk about our ancient history. Would you've done before on more. But it's a good time to talk about stocks, all kinds of things. And I warned already if he insults my partner and pivot Scott Galloway, I am going to physically break his arm anyway. Jason, welcome


to Rico Deco. It's great


to be here. Why are you so mean to Scott? Stop! Listen. Heat is going hard. Yes, on Uber and Tesla. Yeah. And he was wrong in both cases. No, not an uber. You know what you wish you were called? The big dog Dollar. The tiny. You're this great. Don't insult him. I got is a grown man who first himself in the third round.

Stop it. You do that all the time. You literally have the same personality. That's probably why you like that. Back up. He would have been the backup for Scott. The problem.


I know I am. And that's you always have that


over him. That scene I was going to say No, I don't a lot of lot of like white men come up to me and said, Well, if he ever doesn't do it, I'll do it like I get it Every week someone else thinks that they can make it up. You're probably one of the few that could actually d'oh actually do. Well, it would do well in terms of people listening. But listen to me. He's correct about you. But I'm sorry. I think he's got the right analysis. He doesn't Alice, he says, Tough announces. You guys were mean to him.

You and Keith pile the fuck onto him. Well, I mean, he brings it on. He wants it now. He's trying to engage, Yes, but not personally. You like you guys go after him in the weirdest way. I have to say I find it if you want it, like argue with him pretty much your argument him is we're rich and smarter than you are. So what do you know? He's actually pretty red. She actually had ended with some of his predictions are amazing and very insightful.


I think he has some good hot takes,


takes what has some hot takes, You know, the hot takes the kids talk about the hot. He's been right a lot. Like has didn't want Yeah. Hey, just


you know, he's very effervescent on the media. Sometimes he was wrong. He puts himself out


there alone. And then if he's wrong and he wants to do that on Twitter, you will get dunked on by people who have more information. Do you have a substantive conversation rather than


fighting me on the pot? Ah,


well, that's all right. We'll be on the boat. Is You mean, like, why would so sending me out and again engage him substantively. But you guys were mean. You're just, like mean girls. You're mean girls is what it is that when we are you are. He makes it personal. Boy. He makes it personal sometimes any Sorry about your never sorry about your never Sorry.


I actually am always sorry if I make it too personal. And I have learned


to dial back me of controversies, haven't you? Yeah. You know, when I grew up


in public, right? Like when you're 22 year old editor of Silicon I reporter. I didn't know what


I was doing in New York.


All right? Yeah, I'm a New Yorker,


and I didn't know


what I was doing when I did that magazine or and I always was in a position with me before. Too much attention on me with less experience.


Yeah, And


then what happens over time is your experience catches up, and then maybe you get a little more humble and those two things switch. And I tried to mentor a lot of young founders. I invested now in this very phenomenon which don't get high on your own supply. Be humble and just get a filly in that experience, that knowledge, that wisdom and that's what I try to do now


is being like a little trumpeting. Trumpet is


guessing. I


don't want to treat you a little trumpet. You love it. I do not. Was the largest crowd ever. Listen to me. Listen. Nice. Nice. Well done. But isn't it interesting you sort of these discussions on Twitter that we're gonna talk about a range of things of late stage journalism, late stage journalism and things like that? So where do you want to start? Let's start with those companies, Tesla and New Bern. Now I am going. I am going to go with Scott's analysis of uber that it's in, Really, it's in really distress in terms of just Jason druggie just left.

Is Uber deemed to fail?

If you give great founders with vision a lot of runaway, they are going to take it.

Jason Calacanis, an early investor into Uber, explains that massive amount of private money enabled Uber to grow rapidly in the early days, ignoring some of the realities at the expense of getting to scale.

Once they IPO'ed, the company had to switch from focus on massive growth, to focus on profitability. It was a big shift, and it will take time to transition.

However, as long as they can differentiate, and people love their product, they will figure out how to adjust their margins to give public markets what they need.

Um, you

Is Uber deemed to fail?

If you give great founders with vision a lot of runaway, they are going to take it.

Jason Calacanis, an early investor into Uber, explains that massive amount of private money enabled Uber to grow rapidly in the early days, ignoring some of the realities at the expense of getting to scale.

Once they IPO'ed, the company had to switch from focus on massive growth, to focus on profitability. It was a big shift, and it will take time to transition.

However, as long as they can differentiate, and people love their product, they will figure out how to adjust their margins to give public markets what they need.

did a great job building, but they're pulling back, but they're pulling back on it well, and analyze uber for me. Sure,

Is Uber deemed to fail?

If you give great founders with vision a lot of runaway, they are going to take it.

Jason Calacanis, an early investor into Uber, explains that massive amount of private money enabled Uber to grow rapidly in the early days, ignoring some of the realities at the expense of getting to scale.

Once they IPO'ed, the company had to switch from focus on massive growth, to focus on profitability. It was a big shift, and it will take time to transition.

However, as long as they can differentiate, and people love their product, they will figure out how to adjust their margins to give public markets what they need.

sure. Listen, you know, I was the third investor in uber. If you didn't know that, it put it on the cover of a book, and it's in the 1st 5 minutes of every pocket I've ever done. But seriously, I watched that company grow. And there was something strange that happened over the last decade, which was Companies didn't go public like they did in the previous cycles, that 52 500 billion in revenue. They stayed private. And there was all this, you know, public money, t rose,

infidelity that kept the company's private longer. That causes a massive opportunity in that you can not educate the market as to what's going on. It also keeps you from having the reality of scrutiny, right? And so, you know, it's a double edged sword. And then you had Masayoshi son,


come in and say, you know what? Why i p o Now let's do another


two years of growth. Here is a bunch of funny money. It's the Masa Pio is like literally a Maasai Po to you had two instances where people


said, Stay private longer, right?


And you and I know that that is a recipe for high growth and perhaps less constraint. And so that led to uber running away with the market getting to. You know, I think there are two billion rides, 1/4 over 10 billion


in revenue and a very


clear path to profitability. I mean, that's what the media gets wrong. And this is, I think, will dovetail with our late stage journalism and the aunt and the tech backlash in journalism, which you brought up before, and you and I came up in the era when, you know people were poor in tech journalism were fans, not me. But you were. You were always odd. You're always out there on the edge. Now it's become, I think it's what the pendulum swung way too negative. And when you look at these companies, um,

they were given the runway. They were given a 10 year, 20 year mandate. But for public markets, they're looking at quarterly. So what a massive change Dara had to d'oh when the company went public. And they said, Oh, you want profitability. You don't want massive growth. Okay, we're losing 50 cents a ride. That's what they historically lost. There will be no change in behavior with the exception of on the margins, maybe lift line in uber pool. When you change that price by 50 cents, right? And so


it will glide it just today, for example, Today I went to get a new birth and it was $50 in the Castro downtown and I was like, No, thank you. The prices have, and that's for 85 other things here in San Francisco. But I've noticed the prices creeping up rather dramatically, and I think it's very more growth versus profits, profits and the What does that do to a company like uber?


You'll see, you know, growth go from, you know, 30% year over year, 20%. So the public markets will be happy. It'll be profitable. They won't be scared that these things become a We work right. And so you really have to analyze. Do people love this product? Ah, And how far ahead of the skis are they? When you look at we work that just got super far ahead of its keys, and there was nothing differentiated about that product. Office space. Still a great business may be a great $5 billion business,

but not a $50 billion business. When you look at something, were you ever really work? I was not. I I stayed in one for a while, but yeah, that was a disaster. So that one deserves, like, wow, I mean bad behavior on the individual and just no discipline and not really good unit economics. You look at somebody Tesla's well, they were always building two or three years ahead, the superchargers model three solar panels, the gig of factories. And so if you give great founders with vision, a lot


of runway there could have taken


just like basis did. And what the public markets are gonna figure out is what's Blue apron and we work


and what's uber and Tesla. Let's finish it and thats why would Jason leave now? I think that because of the cutbacks, he must have been like Go, go, go! And now it's like no not so much because, first of


all, another race problem exhaustion is This is a question, of course. I mean, he five x that business. I think you're over


year. It looks like they're cutting back their closing in India. They're selling things off their trimming. Its not like Go,


go, go With Travis's plan, Travis would always say, In the early days, we're gonna go for the gold, will accept the silver, but we're out. If we don't get the gold or the silver, that's it. That was this philosophy. And actually, Dora has the same philosophy. You get the gold or the silver. Either you, Google or Yahoo. You know, you're


either Facebook that Snapchat is raised about. You have Amazon coming in there. You can see


the food delivery was making two or $3 per delivery prior to door dish. And so what's happened is you give all these founders a bunch of money to say, How many people can we get to install the and how many get people? Can we get to place an order and they do some math? They call attack in the business customer acquisition cost and then they look at the LTV lifetime value and a bunch of walks it a spreadsheet and they just say, OK, over five years, we get this many people. The CAC is X. The LTV is why. Let's figure out the ratio and then we'll raise prices later. Door Dash has a couple of $1,000,000,000 they're losing a ton of money. They're racing towards the cliff lift is almost out of money, right? And then uber did the right thing has what, 11. 12 billion in cash so uber has more than enough money.

They've got enough money, I think, to go get the profitability four or five times over lifting Doordash do not and the party's over. So the free money party's over and now we will see the tide's going out. Everybody has


to get free money. Party over. Oh, it's over.


I don't think Moss is able to raise this next fund. Had the activist investor come on and say, Hey, can you not burn off the money at Softbank


years under siege for lots of behaviors and things like, Yeah,


and you know, when the money gets big, people get egos. We both know the people involved in all of this and some people aren't centered. They're not self possessed, right? And I always get that sense from you. And I think it's probably why we got along as journalists and writers and commentators is Hey, you got a certain foundation in life. This stuff doesn't knock you off your center And actually to Professor Galloway's point, you know, if you he think his commentary and we work, that's exactly correct. You tell somebody there, Jesus, that 30 like they're gonna believe you. And I think that's a pretty


you know, one of us. Good quote. So uber you have not no words. You think that no idea that they're gonna have, you know, enormous margin pressure and the growth will go down because lift will be out and they'll own what the U s alone.


Yeah, they're gonna own 1000 markets, 2000 markets. And then if you just think about the adjacent seas, uber eats will get to profitability as well. Just like the ride sharing business. I'm not sure about uber pool and lift line. E think those were great experiments, right? But ultimately they might be Miss Price.


What about scooters and bikes? that I love their bikes. I love,


you know, I think it's gonna be very dependent by location on behavior, and it's just incredibly dangerous to do it in a city like San Francisco. I don't know


if you ride them here. I do not write them here. I ride them everywhere else. I wouldn't ride them in New York. I don't


write in New York in San Francisco that, you know, the the taxis and uber drivers lift drivers and and just spaces too dangerous in Santa Monica. Seems great. San Diego seems great. Arizona, Sure, Why not? There's a big side


of Banks. They're safer. And actually, Sami just goes a little safer because of the bike lanes of the


Yeah. I mean, I think that would be for both of us. When we become mayor on subsequent term all bike lanes, I think we just gotta turn mission or finance or something into a permanent bike lane, right, because it's a perfect city, the bike in. You just gotta dedicate

Is bike sharing the future of mobility?

Jason thinks that micro mobility is the future but it does not stand on its own, bikes and scooters are going to become a free/low cost offering from bigger players like Uber, and that's it.

certain parts of

Is bike sharing the future of mobility?

Jason thinks that micro mobility is the future but it does not stand on its own, bikes and scooters are going to become a free/low cost offering from bigger players like Uber, and that's it.

certain parts, and but I think micro mobility will be, ah, free product ultimately, and we had some discussions about this early on with uber of like, Why don't we just make a subscription if you take three you bribes a month. All the bikes, all of the scooters are included. So I think Bird comes out of this. I think they make it out. I think nobody else makes it really makes it out.


Why does burn?


I think, bird, if you look at the team behind it, David Sacks. Rule of both from Sequoia David Sacks from Craft. They've got a brain trust. Antonio Grassi is from Tesla, also an investor in on the board. I always look at that board Composure. When you see that level of talent on a board, they're going to figure it out. They have big, deep pockets. They've


got me. They've innovated enough. You don't see burned by you don't see bird


came up with them. They copied that other company in Santa Monica that was doing like the standup scooter where you don't need to, like, throw your leg over the bike and they made one of those. So purpose built hardware is absurdly expensive, but it'll have better body life and it will not break down in three months. So they're all gonna have purpose built vehicles. And, you know, I think micro mobility is a thing, but it's a thing that's part of a bigger


thing. So you're sure like it's a feature of crime or whatever.


You just get a feature


of uber. It's a feature of over, and


it's a great feature because you're gonna get off at, you know, Cal trains and then look at Uber X pricing. Liverpool pricing the bike and the scooter and make a decision. And some people might not want to be on a scooter or some people might not want to share a carcass or making a private call. And that really is the future of, I think mobility and uber's, you know, despite some of the rough patches.


But it's recent deal with the they


just do a deal with. They did a marketing put ads. So this is what happens when a company is forced to show profits. Everybody stops. They assess what's going on. They say, Okay, what can we cut? That's burning money and what can we add? That's just pure profit. And I've had you invested about 80 investments last year in comes when I started. Yeah, people don't really know what I'm doing on investment basis. But, you know, back in the day when I was a sick Wescott, I would do one a month and thumbtack uber and data stacks with three of my 1st 7 They'd all turned into unicorns,

one of Decca corn. And, you know, when I talked to start up a ton of people who wanted to advertising, and I always said they would always ask for an intruder, Travis and I was like, You know, if they're going to do this, I think they'll just do it themselves. Yeah, you might not want to meet them now because


I don't really buy things that uber kind of kill things


and roll them themselves. Not exactly who you want to show your deck too. And be like, Hey, can we


get bullish on Uber will be great. I think it's take your little lap your Tesla lap.


Go ahead. Well, no, I mean, listen, now I am now, Here's the thing about you know, betting against Elon Musk is a really bad You said this many, many times. I have been friends with you on prior to him being in Tesla's, and he was an investor in Tesla. He had three or four different CEOs. Each one of them did worse. And he just said to me at one point, I I gotta go. I put all my money into this. I am worth zero on.

He's been public about this. I'm not being in school, but he said, I have no choice. But why you're doing this Space X is your passion. Why would you do a second CEO? That's going to kill you. And it has almost killed him. Like running both company Space X is a clear path to victory, and Tesla has been hard. I mean, car companies die. That's what they do to you. This is the last successful car company or brand I think was Jeep. You know, it's really hard to actually d'oh and he's done it. You just don't wanna bet against


somebody who knows why this time, because, you know he has his ups and downs like, you know, there's issues still around making them, making enough of them servicing them for the battery life. Everything else there's still continues to be challenges. The only


leak in Blondes game is his ambition, and his timelines. So the ambition is always so high and the timelines so aggressive that he is typically, I think, on the car she's always been a year late, 18 months late, two years late, self driving, etcetera. But you know, he always wanted over delivering. You Look at that model three and you talk to any customer.


There's a light in love with my brother,


and they will not shut up about it. And if you go to Thanksgiving hitting or Han ago, whatever your holiday is it you got to test the person in the family. They're telling you what the last three


complaints are often about service and replacement parts and things that you rely on in a car.


Yeah, and And that goes to speed and these crazy deadlines that he sets. And you know, if you're going to be betting on a stock where you're gonna be betting on a founder as an angel investor, a venture capitalist or even a public market investor, you want that founder authority who's gonna be ambitious. If you look at Apple, you know, Tim Cook has done a great job of managing the supply chain and optimizing raising prices and printing money. But, boy, if the best product they're gonna come out within a decade is airpods, which is a great product, right? This company is


in trouble. Entree need Thio? Well, I mean, there's the big


product. Where's where's the next big platform? And if you look at iPhones Theo's, I think it's three years in a row. The decline in the sale of them, the only thing that's nearly 11 was, Yeah, the only thing that's gone up, it's the price and the margin. So if you're managing a business to print money, you would give you leave Tim Cook in. But if you're managing it for what the next platform is, he's sitting on hundreds of billions of dollars in cash, and he doesn't have the chutzpah Tobias Spotify


to buy, attempt to revive her. Then let's switch


them. I would have gone right to Tesla's. That's a no brainer. Imagine


a model for Scott was getting Pel Aton, and things like


that's a total no brainer. I mean, if you think about any product that's exceptional hardware with a passionate user base with a high margin Tesla palate on anything in that range and headphones is one of those things, right? The fact that they're charging for airpods What


is it true? 100. 300 160. 32. Forget it. Forget it. Say hi, it's


hi. You can buy better airpods on Amazon right now from all these other companies. And they're 40 50 bucks and they're better, but nobody buys me. Maybe kids with Android.


Well, the integration is so good with the others. The fact that


you put them in and they just connect is


like the integration.


So they should just be they should be putting that money to work. If that was Bezos and he had that chips that he would put into work Zuckerberg he would have bought Instagram. What's up? You got it. Make some bold bets and you know, they I think that their culture red culture matters culture was always build it here. Now, when Johnny Ive and Steve Jobs are no longer in the building, the culture of building here is probably a mistake. What got them here is not gonna get them there in my mind, if you're Tim Cook and you're a master of supply chain and raising prices and incremental improvement to the phones. Sure, you know he doesn't want to lose his job, right? Yeah, and that's the difference between a hired CEO and founder.


It's interesting, though. Look at Bob Iger did Tomainia because this will get to him in a second. But he did a ton of position, All right, so finishing up on tests and then we'll talk more in the next part. What happens next for them and spade, Yo, Ad Space X in and his various Hyperloop and yeah, tunnel digging

What's the next breakthrough for SpaceX?

Jason Calacanis says that lower orbit satellites have the potential to connect another 1-2 billion people to the internet, which would be huge for SpaceX future.

efforts. Yeah, yeah, and I'm not a shareholder in the company. So just to be clear, but I'm good friends with your own space X. I think the rockets with the little micro satellites is a really interesting opportunity. It's unknown what Internet low Earth orbit satellites will, what the market for those will babe. But what they are is basically briefcase size satellites that are low earth orbit. They're very close. So when you think about the other satellite Internet that you use that some Airbnb in the middle of America are they using in the outback, those have really big lack time. You can't watch movies, you know, it's it's all really lag If you make the satellite's closer to Earth, you close the aperture,

but you increase the speed because the time it takes to get up and down is ah, fraction. So there you have to put up thousands of them to blanket, as opposed to what Hughes or these other service is. They have 10 or 20 of them, but they'd be really wide, very far out. So that's gonna be interesting, because there there's another 1,000,000,000 or two billion people who might get caught up in the Internet. And that will be wind and everybody sells. That will just be sort of like mobile did to the Internet. Low Earth orbit satellites going to do to, you know, the Internet community as well. So nobody anticipated


that well, And your Yang was talking about this a long time ago. Yeah, he was the one people having five years ago. He was talking about this and was investing do making investments. But it's


difficult. Yeah, so, anyway, you know, it would be great. My wish would be to see apple by Tesla and put a model three in every and a power wall in every apple store. That would be the huge win


for society never will happen. Ice may. Would he sell it? I


always thought that the right step off moment if it was me, not Ellen would be at the Model


three. All right. I felt


the model three was to drop the microphone. Moment 50 k car. That was 300 miles


truck thing going


on. But the but the mass market car was to drop the microphone moment and it could actually go down in price even more with the Chinese factory, um, which was put up in record time. The other Mike drop moment could be, um, self driving. And, you know, I'd use the self driving every day, and it works on, and it's 70% of the way there. The last 30% is gonna be the hardest. And so I don't see it happening in San Francisco without a steering wheel for New York City without a steering wheel, which is what you need to really talk about. Full self driving is to get rid of the steering wheel. You don't


have to even a coaching infrastructure plan to put sensors and roads and everything else. That's this


is why we'll see it in China. Yeah, but first we might see it in a city with a perfect grid system like Arizona, where they're testing it, you know, somewhere like that where you can actually penned the humans in. That's what's gonna happen in China first or maybe Singapore. You know, if you ever been in New York and you've been in rock Center, they put those fences so the tourists don't walk into traffic and get killed by buses, and they make them go to the corner across that they don't just drift. Imagine if a city had those fences and, you know, bridges over


could force Billy. I can't make it. New York. People do anything right in there. They jump over those


jumps, like once in a while. You see, somebody jumped the fence, and you're like, Okay,


really. But if you go to


Hong Kong, you know, everything is sky bridges. So if you want across the street in Hong Kong, you're going up and down stairs and go across Yeah, it's amazing s Oh, yeah. Tessa is just a company for the ages were


buddies. Will not you think he would sell? It would sell it on Apple's really the problem. The other tire Amazon?


Uh, yeah. I mean, Amazon And, um, you know, Google. Google wanted it at some point, you know, they were so close that they were very


close. Never gonna do it.


Now, you know, you gotta think it through because ah, for Amazon or Google or Apple Tone, Tesla would transform their businesses. And we get them to that, like, next


trillion, Right? Okay, that's a really good one. All right, we're here with Jason Calacanis. He's obviously doesn't need no introduction. I just call him a pain in the ass. And when we get back, we'll talk about the big companies, the big tech companies and where to end eventually on the late stage journalism, which I'm very curious. What the hell he means by We'll be back after this Hiring used to be hard multiple job sites, stacks of resumes, a confusing review process. But today, hiring could be easy,

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All right, we're here again with Jason. Obviously, he is such a shy and retiring type. He has something to say. So we just covered that test on Apple. That was Apple stuff with super interesting. So let's go to the other big companies. Like, how do you look? We're gonna get to Tech Clash in a second, But let's talk about where you see each of the big companies and the regulatory environment. Okay, so Google.


Yeah. So it's fascinating that Larry and Sergey have, like, not spoken publicly. With the exception of Sergei at recode 134 years ago. He did that with you. You know, they're running the company. They have all the voting shares, but they don't talk about what they're doing. They put Sundar in there. I think that if it was split up, YouTube has its own company would


be a juggernaut has


been talked about, and it's been talked about. Susan, with Jackie, would be a perfect CEO


for it. She's obviously proven she is that she actually give her the CEO right


they gave this year title, which I thought was a bit of a talent. Maybe they are going to


spend it out. No, I think she


was gonna leave. She was gonna leave NGO.


Very nice. That's what they do. They did an Amazon. They do


it everywhere. Yeah, well, I mean, look, I think they learned their lesson after Sharra left. They were like, Yeah, you can't be on the board. We'll give you this, like, minor title. And, you know, you're arm's length,


and then she's like, Really, Am I by? We'll get to Cheryl in a second. But so, Google, what do they What do they do? Understand? Are you think that Larry Tucker is still running


the show? Of course. Of course. Yeah. I mean, they're not gonna make the tactical decisions that they make the big picture decisions, obviously, to have all the supervoting shares, et cetera. Selfishly, as an early stage investor, it would be great for me if these companies got broken up a bit. So if Google was three companies, you put Android over here. You could put search over here. You, but maybe the hardware in YouTube,

you know, any number of possibilities? YouTube's the obvious one toe lop off. It's its own thing. That would be great for me because then there would be more buyers in the market. It would be more competition. Obviously, Facebook's the obvious one to break up because of their bad behavior. Google's a little bit harder because their behavior eyes so they don't apologize for their behavior. In fact, they don't talk. That's their philosophy, and it's always been their philosophy. Nobody's in charge here. We've got the most brilliant people in the world. But if you want to get an answer, there's nobody who can give you an answer. And they just you don't make it very opaque, as opposed to Facebook, which is on the constant apology tour and constantly contorting themselves toe say it's


not our fault. Now they move her apology, too. So what now? Now they're the loud So


what Now they're going


trump phrase in, and it's like it's not gonna work,


either. But that's not gonna work, either. I mean, I think your behavior just has to improve. I mean, maybe self reflection would be what some of these companies


need to Geo. They're vampires. They look in a mirror. They see nothing. There's no


reflection. My personal theory is that the tech backlash, which will dovetail with the next segment, was started because Facebook's behavior was so bad and they were so unrepentant about it. And they were just, like, move fast and break things. And it got so big that they broke democracy. They broke privacy. They just broke too much stuff, right? And, you know, I just think Zuckerberg's a bad actor, period, All right. I've always thought that actor and I was out 14 years ago getting barbecued people tried to end my career. I had literally an LP in the top venture capital firm in the world like an LP tried to get me cancelled in, You know, the early part of my career because I was so anti Facebook and


we moved to them. So Google's going to quietly in the back room. May may have to break up, and you would like that it


would be good for me selfishly as an angel, because it would make the market more vibrant. I am concerned on a global basis that China has picked their winners


China thing well, China Schmidt just had a big old China says scary. That's their stupid excuse all the time. Well, why not have a lot of great companies? Why not win by innovation? And you can't innovate with all these giant companies? Top of these


companies are not resting on their laurels, so they're pretty innovative. And they were really good at buying big things before they kill them. Like YouTube could've Or Instagram obviously did kill Facebook. So but China is putting their thumbs on. The scales were not banning Chinese companies. We should be banning TIC tac in this country. We should not allow that brought up. It should not be allowed here, period. Until


Google they have creating just a U. S. Division that spins


off still should not be


a what if it spins off its


at us? I would still not trust it. The gene paying and you know, the government over there is in They're picking the winners. They have access to all the data. I am certain. I mean, we have act. We have data issues with our government, which is a, you know, ah, high functioning democracy, even in this chaotic moment, is still a high functioning democracy with checks and balances, even if they're broken on the margins. China is explicitly saying, Tic TAC wins, Alibaba wins here. The winners and we have access to all the data and we


have a horse. So you think not breaking up because in order to protect us from China is a good argument. Well, that there is a Mark's argument. That's Eric Schmidt's argument.


We are competing against those companies on a global stage. So if we are gonna break ours up, we need to really put the screws to those companies and say You're not participating in our more at the same time. Say you're not participating in our market unless we participate


in yours. It has to be researched like that. And we can't if


we put Google there. And if we put chrome there, if we put Android there, whatever we put their, you know, Facebook instagram. We're not giving you the dissidents s so you can go reeducate them, period. And that's what a great leader of this country would do if we had a proper leadership in this country. And this is why leadership does matter. This is why the election matters. I've never delved in politics but I got a Mike Bloomberg,


um, or get


to him, you know, pen on. And I'm a little bit more involved because we have to stop Trump because we need leadership against authoritarian regimes, not cozying up to them. And we have to put our foot down. Say human rights is table


stakes, human rights about our companies and cozies up to there. Although he's pretty hostile to China. What happened


to us? Caring about human rights? What happened to us being the shining beacon of the world? You know, Eleanor Roosevelt created the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We had everybody who adopted, you know, or most countries to adopt it. And, you know, we break some of the rules. We have the death penalty we've got. You know, we tortured people. Sadly, with waterboarding, we make mistakes were not perfect.


But we were trying


to be better. We were trying to be, you know, ah, leader in this respect. And now you know, you got Trump was like, let's be


people up, you know, although I'm sure a lot of everybody agrees with you on how it was before, I don't think for a lot of people it was. And we'll get the Harvey Weinstein and a second that, but you're breaking up. Facebook would look how you think some of these should be. It's kind of hard to go back if you have. If you if you balance it with the Chinese, that's


one thing. And then I think you're gonna have to have a carrot stick kind of approach. So if, uh, you know you're gonna break up Facebook, maybe have to say them. Listen, you have to provide a paid option and an opt out option if you provide the opt out option, which is what I told them to dio. I modeled it. A roadblock post about it. They ignored it. It's very simple. If they want to take all the pressure off, you wake up tomorrow, you walk into Facebook or Instagram. It says Click here to subscribe for 10 bucks a month.

We will not track anything and show, you know, ads. They could do that tomorrow. They refused to do it. That tells you about their intent. If they did that, then every person who opened up Instagram or Facebook would be making a conscious decision.


I have to say that I am right? Exactly. I don't want to attract so many people. Don't think like us like they don't mind being tracked their sort of cheap dates. They, like, get a crap or some photographs or something that would not let


people make the choice. Then you have the high ground


and then okay, they're assuming people are lazy and they don't do Any of these products are good enough that people will make the cheap. Trade is what they're doing. People, which is soon as you're


making people want to make that chief trade and they understand it right, And they understand there are the Amazon, you know, it's incredible what they've done for society. I would like to see them be a better leader in terms of the environment on in terms of how they pay people. I think Jeff is obviously one of the most brilliant leaders of our time, but he also has a blind spot. You know, I always look at these folks and I find the leaks in their game. And, you know, if I'm friends with him, I'll talk to him about the leak, the leak and Jeff's game. I'm not friends with him is that he continues to grind people and grind situations for optimization when he does not need to the two

Does Jeff Bezos have a blind spot?

Jason thinks Bezos continuous to grind people for optimization in situations when he does not need to.

Instead of being generous to low-wage employees, he overworks them. Instead of helping out a struggling city, he strings them along, and then still puts Amazon HQ2 in a city that does not need any more support.

If you are the richest man in the world, it might be a good time to stop grinding and to start giving, like the Gates family did when they were at the top of the list.

examples that come to mind. But he's very ungenerous. People don't realize that he has that maniacal laugh, and he seems friendly, but he's somewhat ungenerous, you know, At


one point, somebody pulled me aside and said, Listen, schmuck, you made it. You don't have to be a sharp elbowed And that was the leak in my game. A little too sharp elbowed. The times may be creating a


little too many fights. You try to top people


all the time. Well, whatever. I'm just kind of like, you know,


I like to rebound and grab the rebound, My elbows. I clear out


a little aggressive on the boards, but with him, the problem. Waas You know, he's trying to grind people who are making $12 an hour in a factory. You could be generous to them, you know. And then you look at what they did with the search for the second city. They knew that they were gonna put it where his home PC and New York and I am not commented on it. A whole bunch of, you know. Listen, if he does this in Detroit, we doesn't in Pittsburgh. You know, this could be


incredible feeling. Galloway. What an amazing moment for society. If a leader said you know what? I'm gonna take a city that's down on its luck, and I'm gonna


put 1000 or 15,000 jobs and And what does he do? He tortures those cities, tries to grind them to get a tax break he doesn't need on. I don't mind tax breaks on the margins, but it's this approach. And those two approaches were stupid that he doesn't take the giving pledge. He doesn't. He becomes the richest man


in the world. Like, by the way,


when you're the richest man in the world, What did the last richest man in the world? Oh, he said, I'm giving all my money away. They created the giving pledge. And then he said, I'm gonna go after abject poverty. I'm not gonna get people Internet connections, an abject poverty because of Bill. Melinda Gates has gone.


It's gonna be gone


in our lifetime. The idea that people live on a dollar a day and don't have morning water where medicine is going to go away, thanks to those two individuals. And, you know, baseball's just, you know, buys $160 million house. People are doing this. You know H two for Kaka. Program to grind. People too much grinding,


not enough generosity. What do you think is $10 billion climate?


I think it's an exact reaction to having a target on your back when you were the richest person. The planet. You get a target on your back. Everybody hates you. So you got to start doing some things and I thought that was great. Of course, Anon. It's


not enough gear. Guardo's, I would agree to. The point is like it's never enough for that kid is great. Great hair, Okay, But I am with him on the fact that taxing has to be better for this guy or anybody else. And why does he get to set the agendas for the rest of the world? That is a very fair question. I know what


go work hard, make a bunch of money, run for office as if giving money ways, the only way to change


the world. Most


of the world changes happened through politics and through writing and art.


And they're gonna eat the billionaires.


He just wants to cancel billionaires, just like the Socialist


Bernie Sanders. Okay, what's gonna have names? I will make it broken up. You think he's got, you know, an enemy and Trump, which makes him the friend of my you know. And


that was the Washington. Do you think The Washington


Post purchase? I thought that was like an escalation that showed basis is pre This was pre Trump. He


bought it, but he knew that owning a newspaper just like when Bill Gates did MSNBC. Yeah, when you decided to be in the news.


I have a lot of problems with Jeff faces, but I thought you think he's handling the post purchase rather well. I think he's out of it, right? Well, I think less than you think. But I think he's quite I think he's a good owner. I think they here's budget. I think he's a good owner and and I have not heard. You know, I I my monitor a lot because I have a lot of friends there. I think he's a good owner. And what's the difference in him and Rupert Murdoch. But you know what I mean? What does he dip down? Dip down, say Rupert Murdoch tips that he totally he dips down. Yes, of course he calls pressure, but he called. Like is that makes sense,


right? Which is the English or subtle way of, like,


Esso. Subtle. Subtle. How are you doing? I read your piece today. No. No. Well, if he's gonna influence me in any way, he was at the time. He was mad at Yahoo. Who knows? Who cares? It didn't work. So Amazon gets broken up? Yes. No, I think


so. Likely case is they spend out eight of us because it makes the most


unsteady They aren't including this CEO s O.


I mean, here's the thing. The stick is we break you up and the carrot is behave better to the people who are the weakest in the ecosystem. So this is what I think you know. I'm obviously against socialism and communism. I'm obviously pro entrepreneurship. I think capitalism entrepreneurship is the best operating system to run humanity. I believe that Hands down. I understand why people hate it right now. I understand why people think that the system is rigged, and it's the responsibility of the people who have benefited the most to stop grinding the people who have the least That's the solution


here. Compassionate capitalism. You and Mark Penny off that. Well, he's not Benny. It's not wrong.


Um, there's a little bit of pulling the ladder up behind you like, Oh, I made all my money, you know? And now everybody has to behave themselves like there's a little bit of that going on, which is, you know, funny. You know, these people did not behave that way to get where they are throat to get where they are, right? But we have to stop grinding people on the margins, and we have to be generous in solving problems. That's why I'm for universal health care.


Um, I think that their victim me now all I hear is victim E If I hear Carrie, you're so mean. I'm gonna hit the actually hit them and have your redeeming quality. But it's like I mean, I'm telling you things you need, I think your candid, candid and, you know, I think people take


your they take your candidate's roominess. It's meant to be a discussion


that one look in case


you're interested is a little bit of that, for sure. But the discussion we're having right now, you and I could disagree with each other, right? I could be pro capitalist. You could be may be leaning a little


social, so I don't know. I am not a socialist. Maybe you're a little look. Parts of socialism are great. Yeah, it's not grinding people. It's like saying the problem. We need universal health care. We needed that. People live on the streets. It's wrong. We have to do something about it That that that it's the uncaring capital. There's a broken.


The dialogue has broken down. I think this is why podcasting is surging. He would. I made our bones writing words. Now we're doing having 10 times the influence by talking into microphones. Why, it's because writing versus talking about this we can actually have nuance in this discussion on Twitter. We're gonna dunk on each other. You know, my mob, your mob professors, no skin in the games, Mom, everyone's gonna get their mob toe, you know, Layer on Bernie Bro's Trump. You know, trolls, whatever it is, But when you talk


for an hour. Yeah, man way Have about six minutes Late stage journalism. So the tech lashes happened? Sure, much of it. Fair. As far as I'm concerned, it has gone overboard. Okay, Yes, yes, because I don't think people doing the actual reporting, but I just think they're just dunking. And it's But at some point, you know, there's so much material to dunk on there. So much behavior. And the reaction has been bad from tech who feel under siege


and they're dunking back.


And we have, they are, but they're not as good at


it, but wow. But we also have more followers than a lot of y'all. And I've been on both sides of this. And so I think journalists have to do here. Late stage journalism is what I'm calling it. Just like people called late, you know, Non wants to call it late stage. Capitalism like this is capitalism is gonna end. No, it's not a spoiler alert. Journalism's not gonna end. But we are in a late stage journalism where journalism, you know, I think, has become opinionated.

Right? Fox made the liberals Mike aside. So New York Times has gone full liberal like you look at the editorial page. You look at who they're picking. It's very woke. It's very left and it's not down the middle anymore, like it used to be. CNN picked a side right because they were down the middle and then watched MSNBC and Fox beatem. So they said, We gotta pick a side So this pick a side journalism. There's click baiting. There's content farming and it's just too hard to make money. And there's no resource Is so what people dio We both watched it happen. People are programming for clicks.


Yeah, that is a little bit No, I have never been in a room where people say that I think people have brought in Look, when we did all things D, we decided to do heavy duty reporting, but then analysis of it like that based on the reporting. And so we had a point of view. Point of view is our smart, smart analysis,


and I don't think that's like if you look at recode or the information that's distinctly different than I think Box and some of the other publications matchable. But you know that the issue is when you're on the other side, and I have empathy for both sides cause I've been on both sides. I have empathy for the under resourced journalist who is having their performance tracked based on the views of their work. That happens in all these organizations. Now they're looking at how many pages you get your compensations based upon your follower account on Twitter, your compensations. Based on how many people view your stuff. It's become a performance based, not a you know, quality. Yeah, it's not based on that anymore. Used to be assigned the person doing local news. This is important is the national news person. They were equally respected. Now the person with the most views,

the most followers gets the best job, right, so they don't see what's so I have sympathy for that and they don't have fact checkers and they're under. They have to file three times a day or four times a day at TechCrunch, you know, maybe information files twice a week. Rico files three times a week, four times a week. You're expected so they don't have the time to do what you and I did growing up which waas We would meet people. We'd have lunch with them. We talked to them. We make five phone calls. You will call me out of the blue. We would just work sources, and eventually we had Really, what we think is the closest approximation


of the truth that we can get to it right? That's a good way to put it. It's always the closest we're ever correct.


It's Russian mob. There's three or four different versions of the truth, depending on where you're sitting there. Now you put yourself on the side of the subjects. My experiential last three years has been nine out of 10. 9.5 out of 10 stories are just anti, and you can tell that you're being set up and you can tell. You know, I went into an NPR for my book, and then they just started asking me about Susan Fowler. You know, they started asking me about all the stuff That's fine. It's on the table. But you invited me here to talk about my book. And so do you want to talk about my book? Or do you want me to be uber's representative cause you can't get somebody? I'm not on the board of Luber.

I'm a tiny shareholder with a fraction of a percent of the company. I don't speak for them and I will not speak for them. I'll tell you about when I invested. But that's it. And so you're just constantly under this assault of journalists trying to dunk on you and writing slam pieces. And then I always respond the same way. Which is they say, Daddy, You know, whoever it is, contact me. I have four companies that I've invested in the last two years that are going to change the world. Would you like to profile one of them? Would you like to meet the founder? You can make your own choice, officer. But would you like to meet the founder like,


Yeah, but I want


to write this dung story, and it's just exhausting for us. And that's


why we created anything. Time you guys had, like, those stories were sort of baked. Look, all that so many of the companies are gone and they were bullshit. They were interned, aiming, Like so, like talking about when you had to change the world thing. I agree. I'm always going to visit. I'm going to visit cos afternoon. I want to see it's a new autonomous car company I'm going to see and I want to see how it's doing and I wantto examine it. But I don't think that people are not interested. I think there was a period of Fanboy ism that went on forever, and this is not that


it's not that. I mean, when we grew up in the industry, it was all this, like Fanboy stuff. I mean, right the way the industry was constructed


was like everything is up into the right. Yeah, it was a bunch of merged


making stuff. And then a bunch of PR people from Wagner Antrim who were 22 year old right, you know, female college graduates flirting with a bunch of journalists to try to, like, work both sides of the story. It was like it was weird.


So what has to happen now? I think there


has to be more balance on, and I think that's what why podcasting is emerging. And so if you look the same subjects are embracing podcasting. But refusing to talk to journalists. I tell Wall of my Founder's Do not talk to a journalist on the phone you will be misquoted. It will not go well. You said that you and I still believe it because they until we tip over from the narrative being by default negative to neutral. I just want to be neutral.


In some cases, it doesn't deserve neutral. We worked in. Of course you can read. You can read an s one.


Right? So this is all about balance. And by the way, this is on the backdrop of these companies change the world and got big. So we can't complain that we all got rich and it got big and it's changed the world. That's what we wanted to d'oh. So with great power comes great responsibility, Which is why we're talking about Bezos and Sucker Berg and what they could do better. So that's fair game. You know, you don't get to make $50 billion.100 billion dollars and not answered anybody.


I mean, that was what they don't which they don't


have to, but they're starting to I mean, the fact that they can't go to certain countries or they'll be arrested, right, or, you know,


detained by other countries and other countries. There's no regulation here there's no it's coming. I mean, there's some of that. Here is some of


the privacy stuff is actually having an impact.


Eventually. Once the laws are in place, it'll be a lock. It


takes a little time, and I also I think the bad press has led them to not enjoy their lives.


And I think that that is a personal


thing where Zuckerberg goes out in public and it's like soccer Bird like to be hated and mocked on television, I think is probably even worse.


And he doesn't like that. I remember in the movie came out, we had a discussion of Well,


yeah, and then also being mocked on Saturday Night Live is being like having Asperger's and being like a robot. I mean, they're really going hard at him. And if he just showed an ounce of, ah, you know, remorse or I could do better on it was authentic not, you know, inauthentic, which is how it comes off. And you know that he doesn't answer anybody. I think the narrative could change theirs behavior that needs to change


based. It certainly turned it around


for himself, for sure. I mean, he was hated to the point at which, remember the time the guy slammed the pie in his face, the absurdist and I thought that was like a very tragic moment because, you know, that's how people get assassinated. Yes, people think they can get to somebody. And now you know, I think I can put a pie in their face, and now we're escalating, right? And we're escalating. Physical violence is what makes me very nervous about Donald Trump, to be honest, when he's always talking this violent rhetoric and you know Adam Schiff's gonna be taken out of Hilary's taking a be careful Donald Trump because that could blow


back on you, too. Careful, Donald Trump. You're crazy. 0.100%. All right. When we get back, we'll talk about politics and then finish up with Jason talking about some of the areas and start ups. He thinks they're interesting. I will give me a chance. I'd love to hear about your I like changing. Okay, we're here with Jason Kelly canIs, who has a few things to say. This episode is brought to you by season two of Business School. The podcast by synchrony business school takes you around the country to get into the minds of eight successful business entrepreneurs in America hosted by business co founder and investors.

Saraya Robbie Business School gives you the inside story on what's helping these businesses thrive and hit brand new levels of growth. You'll learn about an Illinois home builder who discovered an entirely new way to succeed in the tiny home business and how a Navy veteran with absolutely zero culinary training is changing the world of backyard grilling, plus the New Jersey veterinarian with a wild idea who defied expectations and built an animal care empire. Every episode of the brand new season is available for download right now, which is perfect timing for anyone looking to start the new year with some fresh ideas for business and for life. Download of Subscribe to Season two of Business School on Apple podcast Spotify or wherever else you enjoy your podcasts. Hello,


this is Jesse David Fox. I'm senior editor at Vulture and I hope the Podcast Good one. A podcast about jokes. It's a podcast about, well, jokes. Every week I sit down with a comedian, comedy writer or director. We lister one of their jokes and figure out how


it all came together. I don't sit down with a pen in the pad and physically write down everything. I just That's not my style. Turns out comedians take jokes pretty seriously. I like all Joe's. Okay, that's what I do. That's what I live for. There's really nothing else I care about. It's all very revealing. What did you sort of learn from this? What was your takeaway? Nothing. I am not. I'm not a smart person. Good one from Vulture and the Box Media Podcast Network describe for


free on Apple podcasts or on your favorite podcast at


you do know to use the podcast aspirin. I'll let a great question Jesse David Fox. We're here with Jason Kelly canIs We're trying to a lot of things. We're covering a lot of things very quickly, but let's get into politics. You said it very quickly. I'm gonna spend too much time on it. But you backing Mike Bloomberg? Kind of. A disastrous rollout of Mike


starts right now. Professor Galloway's updating his linked in updating his resume. He made things that maybe I'm gonna displace him when he goes on vacation.


Or he writes a little frisky.




come in just so you both agree that Michael Bloomberg is the right choice. There's a center.


I know Mike. I used to do Bloomberg. I would see him in the mornings and he was always like a great mentor to me. And he did a great job as mayor. Obviously, mistakes were made. Stop question. Frisk being the number 11 probably didn't have a great first debate performance. But we have to get Trump out. This is an existential risk for democracy, humanity. We have to get him out now. I know people don't want a socialist. If it comes down to it and it's Bernie, it's going to be a very difficult choice for a lot of people here in Silicon Valley to bite the bullet and bite on vote. For somebody who, let's face it is a socialist slash.

You know, I made a lot of trips to Communist countries and, you know, maybe he's become less communist and socialist in his approach. But he spent a lot of time, you know, being


a fan of Fidel Castro, Donald Trump could be a Russian asset. Could


probably is. But when all that was a Deutsche Bank. While those loans come out, it's gonna


be pretty kind and asset. I would say


not Not not a believer, right? And so these air, too horrible choices, I think for most people in America to make, I would love to see Bloomberg and Amy or Kamala or, you know, some very strong, powerful woman. I think it's time we had a woman president. I voted with my daughter for Hillary. We went together, were both devastated by that loss. I think she would have been tremendous president. I think Bloomberg's got the best shot of winning. E think he's the most qualified. If he doesn't get it, I'm going with anybody who's not Trump. I mean, that's my personal feelings. I have to get Trump.


What? What does Bloomberg have to do because he is sort of a favor candid of Silicon Valley? I would say if I had to pick. There's there's a lot of Bernie Bro's down in the


lower city, there are


a lot of burning, not a Bernese Um no Elizabeth Warren's, I would say, uh, who has who. They react badly to Elizabeth Warren and she was super aggressive on tech


for sure? Yeah. I mean, I I think she if you're starting Salvo is we gotta break up. Tak not like, Hey, we should talk about what is a viable competitive.


She was gonna come to the middle, and that was


maybe, I mean, Warren is just a perfect running made for Bernie right there. Kind of the same positions on everything. She just has had less time to build her base, right? She's coming, whatever. A decade after he's built this huge base. So I think that's why she's not winning. If Bernie wasn't and I think


she would be more confident, she's done more things. I mean, she gets this done. Yeah.


Um, it's interesting. I mean, who do


you like? I don't know. I like him all. I said, They have Frank inside. If I could put pieces them together. I love Elizabeth Warren for her lack of corruption. Her smart. She's so smart and you could see it. So she's Doggett like she should make a very good entrepreneur. She just absolutely just like, you know, kind of the fun. Kind of the fucking Yes, I like, I like I like I like parts of Bloomberg. I hate parts of him. What do you stop? Interesting in his inability to talk about it in any way that he still hasn't given. I don't


understand why he can't give the perfect answers. I mean, if I was his, the


sexist stuff is just He's from a different era,


and I think that's the point. I think that wayto handle the sexist thing. Well, let me handle stop question and frisk people Leave out the question. I was in New York at that time. I lived there at that time. My brother was a police officer right before that time, and they became a firefighter, my uncle cousin, best friend, growing up all cops. At that time in New York, there was a gun problem and 70 80% of city, including African Americans and underrepresented group. It was just universally, people wanted people stopping first, so it was very much like post 9 11 era where yet tap all the wires.

We can't have another terrorist attack, So when people feel scared, they give up civil liberties. I mean, it's just a direct correlation. I mean, they make movies about it like literally Star Wars is about like giving up civil liberties to the emperor because people are scared of a war. This is what people do when they're scared. And I think that's what he should say is listen. In New York City, everybody was scared. It was a really dangerous time, and we did something that was too aggressive in hindsight, even though everybody was in favor of it, everybody was wrong. And I think it's something that we should be vigilant about. After 9 11 we wanted to tap everybody's phones and


we wanted to water. But you can't seem to articulate in anyway because he looks like he's annoyed. He's like that is, he's got. He's got the annoyed face. They were


questioning me because I did. I am so qualified and the more qualified than any one state where you question


it worries me about him politically. In the case of the women's stuff, he could have gone. You know what? I'm letting them on nds and it's bad. Let me just say Yeah, that's by the way. Spoiler alert


in the seventies, eighties and nineties, right? It was a disaster


on Rush Street. He strong second. Hey, you should just say it's bad and you're gonna hate me for a lot of it and bizarre.


And we had 50,000 employees and everybody was behaving in a way that is completely non standard. With today's standards in 2020 How we behave is the opposite of 1995


but I find it fascinating and I'm not


allowed to let them out of there. N d A's. But if they want to be out of the NBA's,


I will support it. Yes, it's a perfect, easy answer. Yeah, and everybody


knows that You and I grew up in a time where what was in her behavior at CS or any other event was different. People used to go drinking, and he's like That was one of things. I think that sank. We work is


they kind of


didn't delineate between private behavior and personal and uber. Yet go in Vegas is I mean, this is what I do Now. I counsel young entrepreneurs that when everybody goes out drinking, that's when you go home and go to bed. That's your job is the CEO. You do not go out drinking,


burning, burning man so you can imagine it's from if he gets another four times What happens to Tech?


Well, he loves tack. I think he


loves the stock market. He loves the stock


in the stock market attack. So I mean, we're all done. I mean, he may. You have to look at what he says and what he does, right? Like he's got Zuckerberg coming over for lunch. Got Peter Thiel in. Is he here? He's got Tim Cook's sitting next to him. 10 cooks in the next room. So, like Tim Cook is like I listen. I know I have to deal with the president of the United States, so I am going to sit next to him and play nice, and I think we'll move somewhere manufacturing back of the Corona virus.

You know, when we're taping, this is in full panic mode here. We're being very cautious about it. That's gonna argue for moving some of the supply chain more local and just to avoid these kind of problems in the future. So I think that will continue. And when people say you can't manufacture in the U. S. Well, Tess was taking cars here, and test was making cars in China has made him in Germany that's a false narrative narrative violation. Spoiler alert, like you can make anything anywhere, does not need to be in Chinese in China because it's cheap.


Do you think Trump will win the next election? Depending


If I don't think he can beat, I think he's gonna handle the beat. The Socialists like he's gonna crush them because it's such a clear path to say their social is their communist. Here he is with Fidel Castro. America will never be. That's why the Russians want Bernie, you know? And I think the only chance we have is Amy Biden. You know some centrist Bloomberg who's going to say, I'm gonna bring people together, my dream ticket, even though it's just two men and it really would like to see a female on baby. Somebody has been under represented a person of color. I think a Bloomberg Mitt Romney crossover ticket would as an independent would be like Okay, Mitt Romney broke from the Republican Party. He's qualified, is a little weird on the edges,

but he actually cares. He's an American, and Bloomberg is an American who's a great business person. He's a career politician. Put him together.


Ah, biker That's well, that


would be great. I mean, Bob, you're Cheryl. Sandberg and Oprah are all on the table for four years.


Eight years from now. Cheryl's like they were all wrong about that. Yes. Uh huh. I think I think


she was gonna be a Cabinet position. Yes, Hillary One That was the


inside line was I used to. Always wants to be appointed president, but I She does not want to run for president. Yeah. Secretary of something, Yes. Starting


a Secretary of state or Secretary of the Treasury. And then people go Wow, at least a rice and all


of this. We'll see Condoleeza Rice plus Mike Bloomberg. Yeah. All right. Okay. I like finishing up. We gotta get going. Give me something. I've got to do this and not try to just slam you. What are some of the really And do your own and do a couple other just very briefly. Each company and trends that you think?


Yeah, I always look at as an investor one of the hardest things to get done. The most resistant to technology and entrepreneurship. I think housing is up. Their healthcare is up there and educations up there So we have Ah ah, couple of investments in each of those and the one I'm really, really proud of. And it's very promising right now. It's coming. Unblockable b l 00 k a b l e dot com and they're making modular housing. They worked for Bezos, and they had built some of the Amazon stores and basically an airplane hangar. And what they realized was, Wow, if you know they're inside of a factory, you're not doing construction on site, so you


can use new material. Instruction is artisanal. That's what I call it. The way we construct things is insane


to say. It'd be like putting all the parts of a test long driveway get together there. Yes, so they are literally building low income housing. Ah, the first project we have is for people who are addicted to opioids who are going back into society. It's like nine units. They're all one bad rooms. But we can make homes, new materials, new homes at a fraction of the price in a fraction of the time. And so


tests out in San Francisco. Well, well,


what's another we're building? Our first factory will be in Sacramento Okay, stay tuned, and we're gonna be able to build.


I like that company.


It's gonna be very capital intensive. Yes. Um, and I think it's gonna work. Cafe X is the other one. We have robotic


in the airport.


Yeah, we moved to the airport. It didn't work in San Francisco. Too much regulation, Too much cost, too much vandalism. But in


the airports, they pretend, what would people do? Like there was a window?


Uh, e mean, you're asking me what people will do in San


Francisco? What happened? People done in San Francisco literally


imagine owning a storefront. Having somebody walk into your store for an indefinite in the middle of your place like that is literally what's happening here in breaking things kicking. I mean, if you're on methamphetamine or whatever,


people are mad at their robots. And it wasn't really about that as much as like, crazy people. Okay,


we have a drug addiction problem in San Francisco that people look at as a poverty issue, but it really


complex. It's housing its


poverty. And the statistics show 70% are self


medicating their their their medical. There are mentally ill people all across the country and it never manifest itself, has it? Combines with house? I just did a great podcast with Contador. You wrote a piece about that?


It is a confluence of events Have people who maybe were down on their luck. They lose a job, they don't have a home, they then they self medicate. Right? So that's one of the big problems is we don't have great psychiatric care and that we don't have universal health care. If somebody is dealing with bipolar depression, whatever it is, anxiety and they don't have health care, they can't go get meds. Yes. So what do they do? They go to Turk Street and make it meds. And those meds are cheap and available. If those meds are cheap and available today and getting, you know, whatever you need, an antidepressant, anti anxiety, whatever it is in, getting into a room is 100 times

How do you make private school affordable?

Childcare is exhausting and to better as a society, we need to enable everyone to access great education, even if they cannot afford it.

Dexter Learning is a self-paced school out of Texas that aiming to get private school education affordable enough to the top-70% of people.

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What is Ad Astra school
Joshua Dahn and Elon Musk co-founded As Astra (which me ...

harder 10 1000 when we get the issue. Yeah, right back to your crazy robot coffee store.


Anyway, that is, I think could be really great to be able to have. Ah, lot of the hard labor in the world removed. Robots outside of factories are gonna be a huge win for society on. And then finally we have a company called Brilliant


Daughter would like Cafe Robot to work, but I see it's difficult. It's a tough road, but I don't really do harder.


Any company worth doing is hard. Uber I interest to 22 investors at a little open angel, former insidious little event, and 19 people said, No. Three suggests me sayin and first round so literally, You know, the harder it is, the less likely it is to get investment. But if it does work, it becomes an outlier. And that's what you're looking


for. Robotic coffee? Yeah,


and then educations. We have a company called Dexter Learning, and they are in Texas right now. We found the founder fan of the pod, and he is doing school from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. Six days a week in the learning space where it's sort of like ad Astra a lot School were self paced learning. They have proctors move around, and Pierre teaching on it's gonna basically take private school and make it affordable for another large group of society. So if private school was affordable for whatever has to change 40 top 40% people. We can maybe get it to the top 70% of people right now, which is you can drop your kid off for at least 30 hours, 25 hours, six minimum, or you can leave them there for 60 hours. And that's a big part of why society is unfair right now is that people who don't have means don't have child care. They don't have anywhere to drop their kids off. And so the ability Why is school so rigid in terms of the time I don't get it? Should be from 6:30 a.m. Until 7 30 PM and any parents should be able to drop their kids off to a high quality educational experience, even if they're struggling and they don't have money. This would be the great mitzvah for society of any parent, a single parent, a parent who struggled


hard. Even with when you have money, it's hard. I mean, it's brutal. Parenting is hard, period, No, but even child care.


It is exhausting and hard and amazing. So why not? If we want to talk about what to invest in our economy, making all schools 365 days


a year for just seven. And can school is ridiculous. Often I am. It's school events. They hate me at school because they're talking about this homework. And I'm always like I tell my kids not to do it. It's not, and they're like what I'm like, Why do that? It doesn't matter. In the workplace, they should learn teamwork. They should learn. I was like all their stupid homework. I'm like, Skip it. What do you care?

Like? It's really interesting that the way it's done is not. And then we were took. My son and I were talking about 365 days of school year. He thought there should be longer vacations in between, like short, like two and 1/2 week. How about


the parent gets to say, You know, you kids got to be in school for 200 days a year. Here are five schools in your area. Drop off at any school you want. Ah, and you hit Your


benchmark really does need innovations to be totally random, and at the same time you done it the same dumb. It doesn't heavy government involvement because it's something that that never gets the attention it deserves. You know what I mean? Like that His capitalists are not gonna like. I think it's a good


thing. Socialism is a spectrum to make everything full circle. We have a lot of rich people in this country. We have a tax, you know, system. That's unfair, right? I mean, having been on both sides of it, being, you know, poor or middle class majority of my life and then hitting some home runs later in life, like the fact that I pay you no capital gains tax. And Jason 1.0 was paying income tax and they're two different rates. It doesn't make any sense. And the fact that there's so many loopholes and that companies think like just because they can figure out the loopholes and pay no tax even though they were highly profitable,

made a ton of money, they shouldn't. There should be some basic minimum tax paid by Amazon, and then we should be able to provide health care and education. That's world class and the problem with I think the way Bernie presents it or some of the social side Ernie is if I said to you right now, we put people in from kindergarten or pre K until great 12 13 14 years. How do you feel about our education system going to 16 years from 14 to 16? That doesn't seem crazy. But when you say free college, will that trigger speed? Because now we're talking about, you know, really expensive stuff where I say, you know, people can go to the emergency room and not have to pay. Uh,

or we could just have people go to a doctor and, you know, maybe get treated before they have diabetes in their leg. Comes off, you know, tragically like bad stuff happens. Those are the two no brainers for society. And I think that might get us, um, this, like band the billionaires and non You know, the anon show of like, capitalism is bad and people who make money shouldn't be able to give it away How they want, like his shtick wouldn't work anymore. And his status. Cheryl his stick is terrible because he's sitting there as a failed management consultant


who was part of the Aspen Institute. You're taking a nine. I know. I'm just going to make me think it's very excellent point is that people don't understand why people are so attracted to Trump and Bernie like, I think he's making a very good point. People are dissatisfied and you have to instead of just attacking him, say, what is the root cause of what is the attraction people are. People are voting for them, so therefore, that is a signal that people aren't paying attention to. Instead, they focus on the kill the billionaires. I don't want to go, you know he does not know. I just like t you want to smack the head? You do a lot of work to do that for a living,

and I've been a very good living at it anyway. Jason's is super helpful. I last very last question. Most very short answers. I know it's hard to be lighting under hyped, overhyped Cocody right now of in Tech are trend or something like that under


Oh, um, under hyped overhype was clearly like the crypto kind of thing, but that's kind of coming down now. Um, under hyped is what's coming, which is civilians. Nana. Credit investors are gonna be able to invest in private companies, and the SEC is changing the laws that if you get an education, you have knowledge. Somebody making 100,000 or $50,000 a year could invest in Uber or Robin Hood like I did. And you know, if you worked as an uber driver, you were not. And we had these conversations like, How do we get the Uber driver stock you legally not allowed to?

EBay tried to do it. Uber tried to do it. Airbnb tried to do it. The hosts of Airbnb, these should have been able to get a share for $10 or an uber driver after every 100 rides should have been allowed to buy one share. That would allow people to who participate in these new startups to benefit from their wild, crazy growth. And then the American dream would seem more real. I embraced Lincoln as an HR person, and I got to buy some shares. That's what should happen. And if you're right now working for the SEC, making $125,000 a year enforcing these laws, you don't get to be accredited. So little of the person who enforces accreditation was does not make enough money, even though they write and enforce the laws to invest in private


company. Very fair point to change the world. All right, Jason, as usual, we will have you back just to keep a Donna has chose. Thanks for coming on the show. Be nice for him. Don't stop it. What animal are you, dog? You're here, weasel. What? We call you the jungle cat door. You know what? You wish you were an animal.

You have no animal. I don't think that you're not a tiger, but we are. Go! No, no, no, not a week. Okay, honey. Badger your ah, honey Badger. That's right. That's a honey badger in the wild dog. All right, that's enough.

You can follow me on Twitter at Cara Swisher. Mike, there's let Eric Anderson is America. America. My Johnson, is it? Hey, hey, s J Jason working people find you online at Jason? Yes,


Jason at Kallick. Honestly, you have a great company. Yeah, Well, Jason Yeah, I'll


give you 100. Obviously he he will get back to you. You You do I know you. If you like this episode, we really appreciate if you shared with a friend and make sure to check out our other podcast. Pivot, Reset, Rico Media and Land of the Giants Just search the manure. Podcasting, app of choice are tap a link in the show notes. Thanks also to our editor, Joel Robbie. Thanks for listening to this episode of Rico Decode. I'll be back here on Wednesday tune and then.

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