Full Transcript for 49: Beyoncé

Speaker 1

Everyone but the kids get

Speaker 2

a hello from me. Super aggressive.

Speaker 3

Just excluding those ungrateful little short ones, huh? Well,

Speaker 1

you know, now all, all bases are covered. All bases are covered. We have kids getting a hello from, from Mike, and the non-kids getting a hello from me.

Speaker 2

Well, you kind of reverse creeped me. Like, you reverse made me a creep. That was, that was, that was good. That was a good move. It was very

Speaker 3

artful. I, they call that a double

Speaker 1

play. They call that a dub, I don't, anyway.

Speaker 3

Yes, yes, Sun Tzu did in the art of war, absolutely.

Speaker 1

And that's all the baseball language that I know. Okay, sorry, sorry.

Speaker 2

When you trap your kids into, when you trap your friend into admitting that he loves kids.

Speaker 3

Listener, I would love to, to, to, to guide your attention towards our walk-on music, our lovely walk-on music, which is, of course, cash in, cash out. feat, 21 Savage and Tyler, the Creator, by Pharrell Williams. He of the ancient Arby's hat that was such a sensation on the internet. And here he is. Apparently, they recorded this song like a year ago and just sat on it so that they could then do a very ornate, stop-motion music video to it.

And, and I think, and, and, and gentlemen, I want to know what you think about this, but I think the song sounds remarkably fresh for being older than one would assume. Your thoughts, Mike? Yeah,

Speaker 2

that is, that is a, it's a hot, fresh, timeless take. I also read a fun interview with, Tyler, the creator, where they were asking him about that. And he was like, he heard the track from, Pharrell, and he was like, I wanna, that, that track fucking rocks, I wanna play on that. But he didn't mention it at the time, but he was like, hey, like a little bit later, he was like, hey, send me those, send me those stems.

So he sent over the, you know, the non-vocal track, and then Tyler, you know, wrote his little, wrote his little thing, did his little verses, sent them on over to Pharrell. And then the way that Tyler knew that he got it is Pharrell called him and just stared at him, saying absolutely nothing, and then hung up. And it's like, that's how you know you got the Pharrell track.

It was a really good story. Oh, I want

Speaker 3

that call. That sounds, that sounds so validating and creepy.

Speaker 2

What if that's how you got a job? You did the interview, and you're like, I really think I nailed that. And the boss just calls you and deadass makes eye contact for like thirty seconds, then just fucking hangs up on you, and you're like, yes!

Speaker 3

I think that is the proper tone for starting a new job. It's scary, it's ominous, but not unwelcoming, I guess. I

Speaker 1

think, I think that my favorite thing that was written about it, and I can't find it because I think it was like a,

I don't know the technical term for this, but it was like a preview of the article where Pitchfork said something to the order of like, Did, did Pharrell have to go this hard? And it's, I'm like, that, that, that definitely piqued my interest. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3

I think he of, you know, happy fame and all this sort of stuff, it is, it is great that he still has very much an interest of dipping down into the dirty stuff every now and then. You know what I mean? Like he produced half that new Pusha T record, which is just nasty and wonderful.

Speaker 2

Agreed.

Speaker 3

And, now we got this motherfucker. This is straight up rap and rap and rap song.

Speaker 2

Yeah, people always talk about how he looks ageless, but also like that dude writes beats that last forever. Like that's, he's got a golden touch when it comes to that shit. It's, it remains, it will never not be impressive.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and, and, and, and I think he's one of those people where it's just like, fuck, I think. I think he's committed some musical crimes, you know, like I think he's done some, some, some really bad ones. Or are you,

Speaker 2

or are you like on board with Happy Man? I'm not

Speaker 3

here to fucking take pot shots at Happy Man. It's to let people have their fun. but, but it's just like, I feel like there's gotta be more musical crimes, but they all just sort of fade away for some reason. They don't stick to him, kind of. Like, it's just he's got his fingers in so many pies, you know? He's a pie finger man.

Speaker 2

It's also that the highs are just so high. So it's like the lows, you're like, oh, yeah, sure, but whatever. But, you know, cash in cash out, cash in cash out.

Speaker 3

Cash in, cash out. so, so, like, like, you know, we're here, we're having a great time, we're talking about Pharrell, you know, and we're getting ready to spend, some time talking, about upcoming albums from artists who are going to release those albums. We're gonna guess what Pitchfork is gonna rate them, but before we do that, we're just gonna have a sort of free-form chat based on a fun little article that, that, that, that, that Pitchfork posted recently.

Duffy, can you set the stage for what this article is? It's unusual for them to do a mid-year article about this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I, at least I think it is. I should have probably done more research, but I, I, I believe that Pitchfork doesn't usually, or at least they've paused, dipping into the, the mid-year list, you know, click bucket, if you will.

Speaker 3

I will.

Speaker 1

but I think that, you know, probably, people at Stereogum was like, man, you're missing out on a fuck ton of clicks because Stereogum dips into that, and I really look forward to Stereogums every year. Stereogum has the balls to actually, you know, number everything, which I think is,

more fun, but Pitchfork still dipped into it, and so they, what they did is they, they gave a random ass number, and I think that, I think it's very much on purpose, which is the 39 best albums of 2022, our favorite music of the year so far.

I, I, I think 39 just makes it kind of random, in my opinion, that's why they did it, or maybe they were like, Is that,

Speaker 3

is that like an internet posting psychology tactic, or it's just like the more arbitrary the number that, that, that increases engagement by 2.4%?

Speaker 2

Yeah, 42, 42 and I'd never click on it.

Speaker 1

I mean, it worked on me cause I'm like 39, they must have had 35 and then they were like, fuck, we have to include four extra, Jesus, you know. Or they just

Speaker 3

fucking hated that 40th record, man. Oh,

Speaker 1

maybe they could have hated the 40th, they could have hated it.

Speaker 3

It's true, it's true. But this, this unlike the year end list, which is sort of, you know, voted on and crafted by the institution, the way they talk about this, at least in the lead of the articles, like one, you know, like we alluded to earlier, it's an unordered list, it is not ranked or anything like that, it's not numbered. And this is basically, these are staff favorites.

Each record, you know, they, you know, each entry on here is credited with a, you know, staffer who wrote the blurb, and they didn't vote the way they normally do, I believe.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, and they did something like this with that, the as of yet uncancelled. On Misty article too, where they kind of just like,

Speaker 3

bring a, bring

Speaker 2

a, bring a, bring a person, like one person writes the little review, you know, is that what I mean? Oh, that was their, canceling albums that they, or not canceling, that was their, re, reimagining scores for albums that they had rated.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2

Which was a fun bit.

Speaker 3

So, so, so, so we've got this, it is, you know, these aren't necessarily institutional favorites, these are individual favorites of the, you know, of the staffers here. It's gonna be, you know, it, who knows how much insight we can really get into the year end list, but I wanted to bring up, you know, we're not gonna go through all thirty nine of them, because, you know, some of these are boring, I'm not gonna lie.

Some of these are boring picks, or exciting picks for records that the three of us personally just have not listened to.

But, you know, there, there were a couple interesting entries. I think it was interesting to see Charlie XCX's record on this list. You know, that, that was, in general, a lot of the entries on this list are in the high sevens, very low eights. It is stuff that just fall below the cusp.

Speaker 2

I would say the average of the list was like an 8.0, and there are a lot of 8.0s on there.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yep,

Speaker 1

yep, yep. I agree.

Speaker 3

And we've got, yeah, so we've got that, that, that, that, that Charlie album, which originally got an 8.0, but that's being included on the list. You know, we've got, we've got the Pusha T album. It's almost dry, which was a 7.8. And it, and it's one of those things where it's just like, look, I'm not going to say I'm the, I'm the most plugged in hip hop listener, but from the hip hop media that I do follow, that seems to be a record that's garnered mixed reviews.

You know?

Speaker 2

Interesting. It did feel like, Pitchfork's response to that was mainly about, hyping up that the, clips kind of, come back together for that last, that last song with Malice,

Speaker 3

right? Cause yeah, his brother Malice, who, who, you know, you know, duetted with him on the, on, on, on the last song. That's what they call it, a duet.

Speaker 2

a beautiful,

Speaker 3

a crooning duet. He was, he was on that album. He's been going by since he, he was, you know, I believe born again at a certain point. and I think, you know, working in some capacity for, you know, Christian church or something like that has been, whenever he does do a rare performance, you know, or, or a record, he's been doing it under the name No Malice.

But this is the time where he's just like, he was like, make sure it's like, no, no, this time it's Malice. So it's an exciting thing. Regardless of any of that, I am wondering if Pitchfork, due to their sort of ha, one foot inside the rap media world, one foot outside of it nature, is, is either out of touch with the general consensus on this album or just not really concerned about, you know, not, not worried about championing it, about revising their sort of initial seven, eight.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of things where I feel like Pitchfork is, out of touch. there's one that I'll bring up in a little bit that I thought was interesting, but they, they definitely, it feels more like these days, the Kendrick album was a good example. They kind of, and this is kind of classic Pitchfork, but it doesn't have the same snottiness to it.

Now it feels rich. Now it, now it feels like they're like, oh, no, no, caviar only, please. Like there's something about the way they're approaching it that doesn't feel like an upstart. It just feels like they're like, I don't care if you guys like it. We don't, we, we don't do that.

Speaker 3

Which is, I mean, in a sense, isn't that kind of where we want Pitchfork? We want them to be a little bit prickly?

Speaker 2

Yes. the tone matters a little bit, and I'm, but I, I have not settled on where I am on the current Pitchfork tone. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't. I often disagree with their takes, but that's always been a fun thing about it. It's not like it's an actual thing. yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. Not sure right now.

Speaker 1

I mean, I, I, I personally love that my, what I was looking for, forward to on this list was when, you know, a pitchfork contributor was going to out-pitchfork the pitchfork, which, Hubert, I, I will not,

attempt to, to,

Speaker 2

No, no,

Speaker 1

no. but, but a contributor, threw on Vintage Paradise, Parable of the Sensei, and there is, there's just no review on this one, so I love that somebody was, This

Speaker 3

is a record that was not even reviewed. Not even reviewed,

Speaker 1

and they're like, yeah, so what do you think of that pitchfork? I just out-pitchforked you. Fascinating.

Speaker 2

They had another one, too, with, like, Hook, Return of the Hook, which wasn't reviewed, so there were a couple on there that, that just completely missed pitchfork, and the people are like, well, let's fill in the blanks.

Speaker 3

The one that, that I found perhaps the most interesting is a record that got a 7.2.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 3

A 7.2.

Speaker 1

That's a low point. And it's your, and it's your guys' favorite album of the year so far, right? Yes, it

Speaker 3

is the self-titled album by Wet Leg, the band Wet Leg. Fascinating choice. What does this mean? That anybody likes

Speaker 2

it, I agree. I think it, that someone out there. This was an Amy

Speaker 3

Phillips pick, you know. I don't know her, I'm sorry about her

Speaker 2

taste.

Speaker 3

Okay. She's been with the organization for a long time, great writer. Oh,

Speaker 2

really? I don't remember, whatever. I don't remember her in the bylines.

Speaker 3

Well, you know, maybe work on that.

Speaker 2

I agree. This is my, this is my bad. This is my bad. They have the names that stick, that stick. But what

Speaker 3

do you think this means Anything. Is, is, is this just purely like, no, this was just an Amy Phillips thing, or do you think this is, I, I, maybe a sign that like, you know, they did what they did on the review, but they will reverse stuff. It is a little weird for them in like perhaps the year end list to put a seven two, but not unheard of.

Speaker 2

I think, I think, don't think, I don't think there's much, what I think is interesting is when an album didn't end up on this list. We can get into that in a little bit. But like, I could see that an album getting onto the list, that there would be different people, there, you don't know how many people thought to have that as their favorite one.

You don't know if it was just Amy Phillips' favorite one. And she's like, no, I like it. I want to write about it. Or her four other albums were taken by somebody else. And she's like, well, I'll write about Way Like It, because I like people to know about terrible

Speaker 3

things.

Speaker 2

Yeah. but on the, didn't write about side, you guys are up for talking about that for just a second. Let's Let's talk about how this list was just a giant slight to Ian Cohen. Let's talk about what was left off of this list.

Speaker 3

Oh no, what did he, what, like Oso Oso? Oso Oso was one, so let's look at

Speaker 2

that, we're looking at that a lot of these albums were in the mid to low sevens to eight, so we're, what I'm gonna start out talking about here is the B&Ms that were missed, cause there were only three, guys. It, every other B&M hit this list other than three records.

Speaker 3

Which makes it seem purposeful, almost. It

Speaker 2

does. one of them is A Crime, and the other two are understandable, but they still, go straight free in Cohen's throat. The first is Oh So Oh So, and I think it's like So Glow or something, I don't remember the name of it. It got an eight point three. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Well, So Glow's a band that is on the list.

Speaker 2

Yeah, this, but I think that, whatever, I'll, I'll look it up. No, I won't. So, Oh So Oh So, eight point three, yes, BNM, not on this list. Second, another, I think in the Cohen range, is, Hooray for the Riff Raff, also an eight point three, yes, BNM, not on the list. And finally, finally, one of, I think all of our favorite records of the year, Ignored, Ants from Up There, by Black Country New Road, not on this list.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Speaker 3

And I take personal offense to that. I do too. you know, I,

Speaker 2

it makes me wonder. It makes me wonder if like, cause I could see Ian Cohen being like, it's just not my favorite, but all

Speaker 3

of them,

Speaker 1

Yeah, but Ian Cohen didn't, wasn't a contributor on this list.

Speaker 2

That makes a lot of sense. That makes a whole lot of sense. But is

Speaker 3

the, I mean, is there a list of contributors? Is there, like, is there, like, perhaps everybody was...

open to contribute and then just he, you know, like, I, like, who knows how they organized it, but perhaps, you know, he had a thing to say about Soul Glow, but then another person's thing about Soul Glow went in, you know?

Speaker 2

Yeah,

Speaker 1

or, or maybe he just didn't hit the deadline and that's why it's 39 and not 40?

Speaker 2

Yeah. Sure. I like that. Absolutely. That's a great conspiracy theory. He like, he, he slept in, hung over, and so that's why ants from up there isn't on the list.

Speaker 3

Another B&M that they didn't include is Perfume Genius's new record.

Speaker 2

Oh, for, so yeah, I didn't include that because I think that just missed the deadline for the article. No, they, they

Speaker 3

said up until mid-June it came out, that review came out on June 16th. That's pretty mid-June. Yeah, so mid-June is the

Speaker 2

15th.

Speaker 3

It's just one day. One day is mid-June. A 24-hour period is mid-June.

Speaker 2

Hey, they, they. That's the cutoff. They play

Speaker 1

by the rules, okay? Pitchfork plays by the fucking rules.

Speaker 3

Maybe it was ineligible. It was ineligible, but, you know, I mean, we've talked at length about their intense, passionate relationship with Perfume Genius. So it would seem, it seems very strange.

Speaker 1

I agree. I agree.

Speaker 2

So that's why I just went, it was just for the reason that it missed the cutoff. I could be wrong, but I'm going from there. We're

Speaker 3

seeing Animal Collective on this list.

Speaker 2

We are seeing Animal Collective on this list. It's nice, nice to see it. Is this

Speaker 3

the comeback, the, the, the, the, the pitchfork comeback that none of us thought would happen with Animal?

Speaker 2

Again, I did. I very much did. You two didn't think. I have been on the record for since the beginning of time.

Speaker 3

Absolutely, you'll find that you were, you didn't say any of those things, or maybe the episodes mysteriously disappeared from our RSS feed.

Speaker 2

Duffy, Duffy started the effort to cancel Animal Collective. He started the thing saying they're done, they're not coming back. You joined in soon after. You, you hopped on that old duffel's train. I, I,

Speaker 1

I wanted for the record that I did not try to cancel them, but I wanted to, through, you know, vicariously through

Speaker 2

Pitchfork.

Speaker 1

Oh, through, you know, vicariously through Pitchfork, I wanted to say that they, they're not a big mama anymore, but I guess I'm wrong. I, I, you know. It was just

Speaker 3

weird that you chose to say that at that weird press conference you did for season total landscaping. I just, it, it, it was hastily put together, and I, I'm still don't know why you chose that, but, you know.

Speaker 2

It was, it's nice to see them on the list. I don't, you know what, I, I would say that even at where this is now, even though I think it got like an eight point three or something, it's still a comeback. It's hard to come back from Pitchfork's, we think you're done stage to get a B&M of any kind. So I, I think even if it just, even if it just stopped here, and I think it's likely it hits the thirties to forties at the end of the year, I still think that's impressive, and go get them Animal Collective.

Another one that I thought was kind of interesting, so there, there are two other, there Two others that I thought were interesting, and both of them, Ryan Schrieber of, Pitchfork fame, now no longer at Pitchfork, but he wrote a, albums I like this year, like an, he did his own little mid-year, like, list, which was really fun.

Speaker 3

Is that on his own site, his own, blog or like, Substack or some shit?

Speaker 2

It's what's good dot bulletin dot com. I assumed he was maybe just a contributing person, but I have no idea. Maybe it sounds like a thing.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think it, I think that's what it is. He has a,

I think a podcast or a, actually, edit that out. We don't want them, people being, you know, looking for a Ryan Schrieber podcast.

Speaker 2

Not when they can listen to us talk about Ryan Schrieber.

Speaker 3

You don't want to be sued for libel for suggesting that someone had a podcast, the lowliest of all medium.

Speaker 1

But I, but I think he, I think he has a playlist or a blog, I don't fucking know, Twitter. but he, he definitely still is talking about music, and that's really about As unsurprising as anything on earth.

Speaker 3

I'm still looking forward to the four-hour special episode we do after we've read his book that he's

Speaker 1

going to publish. Oh my

Speaker 2

God. I'm coming in swinging, I'm screaming. He put it to his ten best albums of 2022 so far. So he limited himself to ten. Look at that. You know, he doesn't have the humor to toss out thirty-nine of these bad ones. That is

Speaker 3

restraint, yes.

Speaker 2

But it's a fun list. Mac may or may not toss it in the show notes. I can't tell him what to do, but you know, you might find it there.

Speaker 3

But two

Speaker 2

things, two things I thought were interesting. One was Ethel Kane, Preacher's Daughter, which he was super, he was like, you know, it's interesting, they're making this into a media conglomerate. I think it's a fascinating new take on pop. And this is an album that it has an 8.8 as an average on Metacritic, I believe, and like a 9.4, like, like it's a, it's a liked album.

Pitchfork 6.4'd it. Pitchfork, like, as, as far as, like, they, they, the only two people that rated this less than a nine were Pitchfork and Guardian, and it only has ten reviews, so we're not talking about, like, some huge stack of reviews. But still, that was interesting, because normally they're kind of in the Metacritic range, they're not so far out of there.

Sure.

Speaker 3

Yeah, they, yeah, yeah, they, they, they have their little, they, they, they have their Flashpoint deviances, but, yeah, that, that, that is unexpected.

Speaker 2

And the second is expected, but, I still think it's surprising, and that is Kendrick. I know they gave him a 7.4, but the album is still one of the most listened to albums, it was one of the most waited for albums, and it's still a good, solid album, and better than a lot of the albums they put on this list. This feels like them doubling down.

Speaker 3

But, you know, I could see, I mean, that album is such a, is such a hot button issue

Speaker 2

in,

Speaker 3

in, in, in the world of albums, you know, it is such, and it is such a dense and polarizing record that I could see them definitely, even if they're, even if they're gonna do a full turnaround and like place this well on the end of year list, which who knows, I'm not necessarily saying they will, but it's, I could kinda see it happening, but even, but, you know, feels unlikely, even if they were doing that, I could see them being like, there's no, we don't have to mention it right now, and we might need six months to process what we really think about this album.

Speaker 2

Yeah, takes have gone from hot to warm to cold, and no more needed on it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah. It's, they've already done their entries into the discourse, and if they're going to sort of re-evaluate the album, they might as well do that, you know, silently.

Speaker 2

I think that makes sense. I like Ryan Trever's write-up on it, just because he basically said, I avoided the hot take, I spent my time with it, and I think that, well, it, he had some interesting things to say about it, but the last takeaway was just, only in a world where everyone's racing each other to the hottest take, would an album this exceptional be taken for granted.

I thought that was a fun quote and an interesting way to think about that album, and I'm curious to see if at the end of the year Pitchfork jumps on that too.

Speaker 3

It, it, it is an interesting viewpoint. The, the, the, the spotlights are very real, tough thing as far as music, music discourse goes. and I'm not sure if I agree with them on the whole.

Speaker 2

I love it. Now, let's, so the last takeaway I have is, do you, I thought the list was a little boring. it, it wasn't even that I didn't know some artists and that I did. I just, as an overall, the things that I would hope would be there, there were a couple that I thought were interesting, but, it felt like a bit of a slog. The Ryan Treber list felt more interesting, even though, though there was a lot of artists that I did not know there, it, it felt like a fun personal take as opposed to kind of a weird anodyne take that didn't quite land.

But I, there were one or two albums that I thought might end up, that, that I thought were in the front runner. For the end of year. And I wondered if you guys also felt like that in listening, or whether you just, or whether you felt like it was just, no, there are, it's everything's in the running and it's a Mitski year, who knows what's going to end up.

Speaker 1

Well, it's definitely not a Mitski year, that's a hundred percent.

Speaker 2

Right. I understand what you're saying,

Speaker 1

but I just want to really double down on that. I

Speaker 3

honestly forget, when did her last album come out? This year or last year? 2018?

Speaker 1

This year? No, no, no, this year,

Speaker 3

this

Speaker 1

year.

Speaker 2

March or whatever. Run that knife, run that knife fast. Oh,

Speaker 3

right. So, and, and they what, they like seven, eighted it or something? Yeah.

Speaker 2

And apparently, that's another album that I'm a little surprised isn't on the list.

Speaker 3

That, that, that was no Saffer's favorite. Yeah. You know, nobody was just like, I disagree, I think this is a great work. That is interesting.

Speaker 2

Yep.

Speaker 3

I think, look, we'll get to the, or we'll get to the front runners, but by way of getting there, I think it is. You know, the thing I'm looking for with this, with, with, with some of these records is like, do we have a sense of changing fortunes or, or, or that thing that we talk about all the time where they change their opinion between the time they review it and the time they do then albums year-end lists or whatever.

FKA Twigs' Capra songs.

Speaker 2

Yeah. I

Speaker 3

feel like, so they gave, Magdalene, I believe, a 47.8. Yeah.

Speaker 2

It actually, it blew up the scale. It was a problem for me. And then they,

Speaker 3

they, they, you know, they, they actually gave it a,

Speaker 2

a 9.2, I want to say? A

Speaker 3

9.4. They, they, they gave Magdalene a 9.4, they gave Capra songs, which is a mixtape rather than an album, whatever the fuck that means. We all know the

Speaker 2

difference.

Speaker 3

We all know the important and concrete difference between these two acts.

they, they, they gave the Capra songs mixtape a 7.8. I feel, anecdotally, I feel like I have This, this mixtape came out months ago. I, I am still hearing about it somewhat regularly. I think partially that's due to her strategy of just been, she's been, been putting out a lot of videos about it, and those get some tiny amount of coverage when they do come out.

You know what I mean?

Speaker 2

Yep.

Speaker 3

But I just feel like, I, I, I, I feel like people are talking about this one, that this album's got more legs than Magdalene had, you know? That

Speaker 2

makes sense.

Speaker 3

I think, you know, and, and, and we've talked about in the past how much it seems like a lot of the, jubilant reaction to Magdalene was really a jubilant reaction to the single Cellophane, which is perfect, which is just one of those perfect songs,

on a relatively, I, I, I would argue uneven album.

Speaker 2

You know what I mean? I very much agree.

Speaker 3

If there's a candidate for the turnaround, I feel like Capra Songs might be it. I think it might be the crowd-pleasing album that she usually doesn't release.

Speaker 2

That's exciting, because until I saw it on this list, and I like Fucka Twigs, I didn't know it was out. I missed whatever, whatever press releases had told it, it didn't hit a BNM, so it didn't cross by me in that way. I just didn't know that Fucka Twigs had a new album mixtape review thing. so I'm, I'm, that's exciting for me, I, and I hope that that's true, because Magdalene was one of those ones where it was like, the singles felt like this lead up, it felt like it was gonna be this triumphant thing, it felt like Pitchfork immediately was like, oh, we're already ready to nut, to, to ten it.

Oh, okay, it's not quite there, we'll nine point four it. And yeah, I agree, I didn't think it had the legs. Cellophane is perfect, other than that, I think it had a lot of things that were kind of, were medium songs. So if this is great, I'm here for it.

Speaker 1

So, so, but, but wait, hold on, I, I just wanna back up here a little bit. So the question that you're asking is, what do you think has legs enough to actually clinch the number one spot? Is that correct, or are we talking about pie in the sky?

Speaker 2

We, no, we've, so we've been jumping around.

Speaker 1

Oh, I don't, so I'm going to go ahead and just flat out disagree that, FKA Twigs, has any

Speaker 3

shot. I'm not saying FKA Twigs at number one. I, I, I, I'm saying FKA Twigs has, wins the award for greatest chance of having a turnaround. And

Speaker 1

you're saying she's a sleeper. You're saying that out of everything

Speaker 2

on the list, she's the sleeper that could creep into the number ten spot.

Speaker 3

Like, I'm, I'm saying that, like, a month or two ago, I wouldn't have thought she would made the year end list, and now I can see her, like, creeping it. Yeah, you see

Speaker 2

like a, you see a strong but subtle campaign towards getting her that nomination.

Speaker 3

As far as, like, the top ten of the year.

Speaker 1

Oh, yes. Like,

Speaker 3

I've got a couple that I think are strong contenders, but I'd, I'd like to hear Duffy's first.

Speaker 2

Let's narrow it to one or, to one or two. One or two that you think is going to make the one or two spot that are very likely.

Speaker 1

Oh god, I have a really boring one. It's not as fun as Fickle Twigs. And, and I do agree with you, Mac, that I think that,

now is it, is it Capri songs or is it Capri songs like the Capri Sun, the, the juice? I like it being Capri

Speaker 2

songs because I, yeah. I, I think

Speaker 1

that, that, that there's a high potential that she'll land in the top eleven. What, you know, wherever Pitchfork always typically does, they're like, hey, it's a pop album and we gave it a low sevens, but here it is a nine, fucking Ariana Grande. Yeah,

Speaker 2

I love it creeping into that ten, eleven, twelve spot, maybe even like a nine.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's, that's where I see, you know, Ficka Twigs. and also, you know, I will have to say that I don't think that Ants, from up here is, is out of the running, just because it's not on this list.

Speaker 3

It better goddamn not be.

Speaker 1

I still think it's gonna land, I'm gonna go ahead and just throw it out there. Probably it's up, at least top ten, at least top ten album of the year. I would love

Speaker 3

to see it.

Speaker 1

And I would, I would, I would bet one, one, Stone IPA on that.

Speaker 2

Done. Let's add it to my list. I'll take it. I love that album. Recently,

Speaker 1

recently purchased by Sapporo, Stone, Sapporo IPA. That means it's

Speaker 3

more or less valuable. If

Speaker 2

it's not mass produced, if it's not mass produced, I'm not mass interested. No. Let's make, let's put it on, I love that album. I think it's a Cohen special. I think it falls into our little emo love. I think Pitchfork could easily throw it in the thirties and kind of toss it back. I will take your bet, and I will say that it falls outside of the top eleven.

Speaker 1

Okay. Okay. I like it. I like it. Your

Speaker 2

bet on the board.

Speaker 1

okay, so my really boring pick for the one or two is A big mama that has not landed in a number one position, and I think that Pitchfork could easily just give it to them, especially considering it's the highest rated album of the year so far, and I don't know, unless Beyonce pulls out, you know, a Beyonce, and I don't know if there's going to be a higher rated album this year, but Big Thief, Dragon New War Mountain, I Believe in You, long ass fucking name, I think is going to, going to pull through and just be the easy pick because it's a great album, they already named it, and there's really just no reason not to just be like, nah, this is the album of the year, bye,

see you around, okay, this year sucks, okay, or it doesn't really, it's actually a really great year for music, but anyway, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2

I agree, that is one of my two albums that is a front runner, Mac, let's see if you choose my number two.

Speaker 3

Well, see, I was not thinking about this as exclusively the one or two spot. I was thinking more top ten and restricted to the albums on this list, obviously, you know?

Speaker 2

Yes, I agree.

Speaker 3

I, I'm not going to go with the surest bet I have, but like, I, I just have a very good feeling about Moto Mami by Rosalie.

Speaker 2

Yes,

Speaker 3

even though it only got like, you know, a middling eight, it is just, I think it's going to only grow in their esteem, you know? I

Speaker 2

agree.

Speaker 3

as they go on, I think they're maybe just a little bit hesitant with it, and like, especially, it's, it's a summer record that came out a little too early.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's a good way of phrasing it.

Speaker 3

I think it's going to be a very useful record for the next couple months.

Speaker 2

yeah, I agree. Those were my two. Those were my number one and two. Those were my takeaways. One, like, I felt like, Warm Dragon, New Blood, What's Up, Head Out the Road was going, like, was, it was high rated. I, they, I, Big Thief has never had a number one before, he said hesitantly.

Speaker 1

No, they

Speaker 3

have not. Yeah.

Speaker 2

So, but they've been, they've been, they've been slamming it. They've been slamming it and killing it and whamming it and damming it. And I think they had a number two with UFOF or whatever. Like, they've been right there. This album got a, got a high nines. I think it could totally take it. But I like Moto Mommy more as the sleeper. I like that more as the unexpected one.

It makes sense as a pitchfork pick. I think we've got plenty of time and plenty of albums to come, but that's, that's, that would be my pick for number one right now.

Speaker 3

It's additionally got that thing that I always harp on, my, my, my, my, my, you know, you know, my, my, metaphor that I can't think of, which is, it, it is It's more obviously sonically innovative than New Dragon, Warm Mountain, What's Up Bro. You know what I mean? Like, like, Russell's record is just, it has got this sort of, this interesting mix of being, like, backward looking, but to a very, a near past with, like, its reggaeton influence, you know? But also, but, but fucking it up in ways that feel like they would only be done right now.

It feels like it's moving a certain ball forward, and that's a ball that Pitchfork.com loves.

Speaker 2

I, I agree, and it's also an album, some records are, are their best the first time that you hear them, and they kind of decrease in value. They, the, it's a decreased payoff. After that, and like, I feel like hitting, Top Dragon, War Man with a, with a high nines gives it, gives it kind of this, like, this feeling after multiple listens where you're gonna be like, that's a little high.

It's not that it isn't worth that, it's just that you hit so high that it has more chance to go lower than it does to raise in your esteem. Like, what, are you all of a sudden on your tenth listen gonna be like, never mind, it's a ten, and everyone's gonna be like, yes, I agree. Maybe, but on the other side with Moto Mami, I think it, I, every time I listen to it, I just put on Sayoko again just a little bit ago, fucking banger.

Every time I listen to that album, it actually gets a little bit better and more fun. So, yep, I think it's a great pick.

Speaker 3

Yep. Well, gentlemen, unless there are, are, are, are, are any other notes that you have to bring out, are there? Anything you're dying to get off your chest?

Speaker 2

You know, I, I,

Speaker 1

I am. I, there's one last thing I want to say, which is Don FM probably should have been BNM'd. I think that that's a

Speaker 2

great bring up. Yes, I agree. And I think that, yes, I think that's going to be high on the list too. I love that pick.

Speaker 3

Yep. I'm, I'm big on Don FM. They seem allergic to BNM-ing on weekends, you know, last couple albums, you know? Like, I think, like what, After Hours was 7.9, this was 8.0. It is, I think they're overlooking that record. I think it's a really interesting record in a way that he didn't have to be interesting this time. Like, I feel like he could have punted this and didn't and got kind of risky and it paid off.

Speaker 2

I agree. I, I think that's a sleeper for a top five.

Speaker 1

And I think it's, I think it's classic Weeknd. I mean, he started off being really experimental and interesting and like, you know, just really putting it all out there. And I think this is a good callback to almost that, that trilogy, energy that he had. Yeah. So, yeah, big, big fuck up on them, in my opinion. I think that this should have been an easy, at least even a low B&M, because I think that this, the album has legs.

Every time I listen to it, I'm like, this is a really good, interesting album that it has not Bore me in any way. So anyway, that, that, that's all. And he has, has that

Speaker 3

song where he does the dumb fake British accent and it actually super works and I love it so much. I don't know. It's great.

Speaker 2

Great pick.

Speaker 3

all right, well, we're going to go take a quick break and listen to Sayoko by Rosalía and we will be back in a minute.

Best new podcast listener, we are back and we're back with follow-up. Now, follow-up is where we talk about how we did on previous episodes of the podcast, but for, for, for, for short time listener, for, for listener who's, who's perhaps is their, their, their first episode, let me explain a little bit more specifically what the thing that we do on the rest of the episode is.

We, we, we, we pick a record or two, sometimes more, that are about to come out and we try to, we, we, we, we try to guess what Pitchfork is going to rate them. We try to take that rating out of their hands and whoever's closest, we give points. We tally up those points and we keep sort of a running score throughout the year of how we're doing versus each other.

It's a very silly, stupid thing that we love very much. Would you all agree?

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 3

Yes. Okay, great. But, but, but, but so now, so, so we're going to get into it later on the record. We're going to pick something. We're going to talk about it. And, Also going to do lightning rounders at the end where we talk about a whole bunch of them, but really we need to get reoriented in real time right now and figure out what, what sort of playing field we have.

Is it level? Is it not level? Is it mountainous? I don't know. How are we doing? Michael, can you tell us where we are at at the beginning of this episode today?

Speaker 2

I would love nothing more. So first of all, let's catch up on our deep dive last time, which was, Soccer Mother, Soccer Mommy, as her friends call her. Duffy went an 8.6 yes BNM. Mike, me, best of your best new boys, went an 8.7 yes BNM. Mack went an 8.4 yes BNM. Pitchfork, Pitchfork didn't, didn't go those. They did not go any of those. In fact, if I had to, they, they went acronym list.

They went with the, the no BNMs and an 8.0.

look.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I, I, I, I, I really thought we, I, I, I really thought this was the time. I thought, I thought this was the time for to join the BNM club again. I thought Pitchfork, they, they realized they made a mistake.

Speaker 2

I thought maybe they'd catch up too. But what I have to admit is this is the most wrong I think I've felt. A lot of times I'm like, this was Pitchfork being wrong. And look, they often are. They often are wrong compared to us. But like, we really should have known this time. Like, they, we should, I don't think we should have thought that they were going to go in 8.7 and an 8.6 BNM.

I think maybe an 8.3, but they do not really like soccer, mommy.

Speaker 3

Okay, so, so you know how, and we talk about this often, you know how, how the, the, you know, the sort of, civil war we have amongst each other as podcasters here, regarding BNT, you know? and, you know, there's been some movement, but classically, you guys are slavishly devoted to the BNT as a bellwether of, of how a record's gonna do, you know, if I'm using bellwether correctly, which I likely am not, and I disregard it or whatever.

But, but, but, you know, I, we, we've talked about, you know, you know, my feeling that you guys put too much weight on that. I feel that I put way too much weight on every time they do a feature interview with an artist in the lead up to their album, you know? I, I, I, they did, they, they, they, they did it with Soccer Mommy, and the way they talked about it, I was just like, fuck, this has got, it's got everything.

You know, they clearly, you know, they understand or interested where this person's coming from. one of Trek's point never is involved. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a slam dunk, and I, and I was led astray by myself, really.

Speaker 2

I have not had a chance to listen to it yet, just doing the deep dive for the dives for this episode, so I cannot.

Speaker 3

Oh, it's awesome.

Speaker 2

I, I'm super excited by it, but I've loved all of her records. I, I don't know. It's a

Speaker 3

Soccer Mommy record, it fucking rules.

Speaker 2

Like, I don't, I don't know why I thought that they were going to catch up. So anyway, they didn't, and, but, and this is on us. This one's on us. I'm just going to admit that.

Speaker 3

Yeah, no, we fucked this one up.

Speaker 2

Yeah. But moving on, and to talk about something much better and much more interesting, we all know what that sound mean.

Okay, get one more, we're gonna give that one more shot. We all know what that sound means. That's right, we've got some perfect pitches.

Speaker 3

No,

Speaker 2

I knew you wouldn't. I almost said edit this out and then I went, he'll just edit me saying edit it out out and

Speaker 3

leave me sounding like an idiot. Yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2

for sure. It's fine with me. It's fine. I knew that I fucked it up in real time, but thinking back on it, I thought it was funny. I thought it was funny, I admit it. So,

here we go. First perfect pitch, drumroll please. No drums, that's fine. So we've got Perfume Genius and his album Ugly Season. Duffy went a 9.2, yes BNM. Mike went an 8.6, yes BNM. Mack went an 8.2, little BNM, tiny BNM. Actual retail pitch was an 8.6 BNM. That goes to this guy right here. so, you know, that's great. It's good. It's a lightning rounder.

It's not that big a deal, but it could have been a deep dive. It could have been a deep dive, and it would have been nice if it was. It wasn't, but it could have been. Did you listen

Speaker 3

to that Perfume Genius record?

Speaker 2

No, I've been very busy with some other albums, like Beyonce. She has a lot of records. There's a lot of records out there.

Speaker 1

And I haven't, and I, I mean, we'll, we'll get into it when we talk about Beyonce, but yes, I have not listened to, I have not listened to a lot of things.

Speaker 2

I appreciate your name and shame of yourself. Next, we've got, Pulica and, their album Madness. Duffy went a 7.1. Mike went a 7.2. Duffy, nope, that's, that's just an incorrect typo, because he can't do two different scores. Mac did a 6.5 actual retail pitch. It was a 6.5. Mac brought that one home. He didn't even know it until this moment.

He can, how exciting is that?

Speaker 3

It's wonderful news.

Speaker 2

So, Let's talk about what that means overall. If you want to join along with this conversation, you can hop over to the bestnewpodcast.com website and hop on the statistics board. So, in last place, it is me. It is me. It's been for a while, but I'm nosing up, guys. I'm nosing up. that's me with twenty point eight points. In second place...

Speaker 3

Twenty point eight. Now, I just want to set the stage.

I have not looked at the stats board. I don't know. I know as of last time, I was holding on to my lead, but very narrowly. I think actually, last episode, I had made no progress from the month before. Oh,

what happened? What happened? Rip this bandaid off.

Speaker 2

In second place, it is Duffy with twenty four point eight points. So four points exactly ahead of me, and that leaves in first place. Best of the best, best of the best new boys in the streets and the sheets. It is Mac with thirty-eight point three

Speaker 1

points. Jeez, what? We've had a

Speaker 2

lot of, we've had a lot of, yeah, we've had some older feedbacks

Speaker 1

come

Speaker 2

in.

Speaker 3

Some of my lightning round chickens have come home to this roost. Hold on

Speaker 1

a second. I think it was Mac who coded this, this algorithm. I want a cross-coding expert to make sure that this is all copacetic here. We'll

Speaker 2

be tagging him in, we'll be tagging him in. But since Duffy wants to go into the details of exactly how this happened. No, no,

Speaker 1

I, I believe it, but.

Speaker 2

Duffy, four episodes ago, had nineteen point eight points. Duffy, your love of BNM means you've gotten about five points in five episodes. You're averaging about a point an episode. So that's really where your ship is sinking. I'm doing a weird wavy thing. it's like a sine wave. It's, it's very strange. And Matt, meanwhile, is just like slow and steady to the top.

Slow and steady to the top. Honestly, he's, he's about the same in the last, but he, he's, he just keeps on rising and we keep on tanking with B&M calls.

Speaker 1

But, but let me, let me just, let me just, I don't know, justify what, what, what, what I've been doing, all the B&M calls that I've been doing. I mean, Pitchfork in the beginning of the year were firing them out. They were like shooting out a B&M for if, if you breathe, you get a B&M.

Speaker 3

They started off with that real quiet period. They started off with that real quiet period in January and we're like, what the fuck, what's happening, what's happening? And then I think it was like February came and they're like, bam, bam, bam, B&Ms for everybody.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it was like the, the Oprah meme, you get a B&M, you get a B. But of course, And, and here we are, here we are, you know, deep diving pitchfork favorites. So of course I'm going to be like, they're passing them out like they're nothing, so of course Mitski's going to get a B&M. Of course Angel Olsen's going to get a B&M. Of course Soccer Mommy, who also had a BNT, and they're all jazzed up about Soccer Mommy is going to get a B&M.

And then I get, I get bamboozled at every fucking corner. So, I don't think I would do anything different, but obviously, ye who guesses no B&Ms gets the fucking, you know, the, the gold treasures or whatever. Sure, Christ said that. Well. Whatever the saying is. Yeah,

Speaker 3

yeah,

Speaker 1

yeah. So.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean, it's also been a weird time, you know, we've had some curveballs, you know, we had the Kendrick Lamar situation, you know. I don't want to hear

Speaker 2

from you, Mr. fucking Toys R Us. No, don't fucking come walking in here trying to like strut quiet and carry a small stick. I'm trying to relate

Speaker 3

to the people. I remember what a gallon of milk costs.

Speaker 2

all right, so we've got some work to do. I don't know if we're going to get that work done. And mainly, and by we, I mean Duffy and I, in order to catch up. We've got about, we're at the halfway point. I, we can still do it. We can still do it. that's about all I got.

Speaker 3

Back in a minute.

Speaker 4

Best

Speaker 3

new podcast listener, we are back and we are back with a very important deep dive. You know what it is. You hear that song. This, this is a momentous occasion, if there ever, if there ever was a momentous occasion, which I am not convinced of in the history of human experience. This is it, because there is a new album coming out by the artist you are listening to right now, and that artist is Beyoncé.

Beyoncé knows.

Speaker 2

And that momentous occasion is that she is lucky enough to have us talk about her upcoming album. I imagine she's celebrating in the streets to know that this is occurring.

Speaker 1

Let's actually double talk about why this is a momentous occasion. It's because it's not a surprise album, and we actually have a little bit of a lead in so we can actually talk about it.

Speaker 2

It's a very

Speaker 3

unsurprising album.

Speaker 2

It's, it's, it's surprise adjacent, like, I don't know what the word, like one month is still like a, a short, it's like a short run. It's like a job. Okay, here's

Speaker 3

the thing. I haven't even talked about the song yet. Here's the thing, though she did do an interview last year where she mentioned that she was working on it. So it's very not surprised. I would go as far as to say. All of this is irrelevant at the moment because what I need to talk about is the song that you're listening to right now, which is called Break My Soul.

It is the one and only single. That we have available to us at the time of recording. Things may change by the time you're listening to this, but at the time of recording, it is the only single we have off of her upcoming album, Renaissance. Act One, Renaissance. The name of the album, Break My Soul, is the song. Listen to that. Well, it's a classic four-on-the-floor house beat.

That's what it is. There's no two ways about it, you know? There's Robiness sample. She's housing it, ladies and gentlemen. She's

Speaker 2

housing it up, she's housing it down.

Speaker 3

Now, she needs no introduction, but I will give her one anyways. Beyoncé Knowles, of course, is formerly a member of the Wonderful Girl Group, Destiny's Child. She's also a noted actor. You may remember her from Austin Powers 3, Goldmember, among other films. And she's back, and she's back to give us even more music, and we're back to talk not Really directly about the music, but about her relationship with Pitchfork.com, the music website, and to give us an intro to that, to give us a legend, to give us a map of the stars, is I present to you, my close personal friend, Duffy.

Hey, it's Duffy.

Speaker 1

Here I am, here I am. so, so, okay, so, you know, this is just a quick little, left turn. Should we talk about Destiny's Child and Pitchfork's relationship, or is that not

Speaker 3

important? You lead,

Speaker 2

you lead this, and this is your choice. I mean, normally I have an, I have an option that I insist that you take. In this time, I don't, I don't. Oh,

Speaker 1

I like it. But, you know, it's, it's actually kind of fun because, I'm looking at the first review of anything Beyonce, which is 2005, and I didn't really dig into Wayback Machine or whatever, so it, there could be something else. But, Number Ones, which I'm guessing is a best of album, I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm just going to go ahead and throw that out there.

Destiny's Child, Number Ones, and it got a 7.2. Not

Speaker 2

bad.

Speaker 1

Got a 7.2.

Speaker 2

For Pitchfork in their anti- Yeah, Pitchfork in the anti-pop phase, that might as well be a 10.

Speaker 1

But here's a fun one, and I'm guessing this is a Sunday review. we have The Writing, The Writing's on the Wall, which is a 1999, Destiny's Child album, and guess what I got? 9.0.

Speaker 2

Woo!

Speaker 3

Wow. well

Speaker 2

that's a, that's a, that's a hell of a pick.

Speaker 3

It's a lady number.

Speaker 1

And that's a 2017, review, by the way. So, I, I, I believe that's a Sunday review. Yeah,

Speaker 3

it's Pitchfork and their modern perspective on it.

Speaker 1

Of course. Anyway, okay, moving on, here we go. So let's, let's, let's talk about Beyonce albums. Let's talk about Beyonce and, and, and her relationship with Pitchfork and how it, you know, where it started, where it's going, where it went, where it, all that kind of fun stuff. So it all starts out in 2006, with, Bidet?

Speaker 2

Perfect, yep, that's, that is correct.

Speaker 3

I believe she intends the name of the album to be B-Day, as in like Beyonce Day. And look, I hate to be a stickler, but if I were crafting that, I would do B hyphen D-A-Y. She did B apostrophe D-A-Y, so it's not my fault that she named her album Bidet.

Speaker 1

So B-Day or Bidet or whatever you want to call it, got a 7.2, 7.2. Very lukewarm, very, you know, normal pop album. I mean, lukewarm ain't

Speaker 2

bad for a bidet, you know what I mean? I

Speaker 1

mean, especially when you're talking 2006, this is the, the, the, the, the height of Pitchfork and their, you know, thumb and, you know, big toe in the fucking indie river or whatever. No, no, I have no idea.

Speaker 2

No, I have zero idea what's happening here.

Speaker 3

Oh, they're, oh, they're cleansing their, they, they, they're cleansing their funky nasty. It's

Speaker 2

in that river. No, keep

Speaker 3

going again.

Speaker 2

And their big toe

Speaker 1

in

Speaker 2

the river. Okay, you know what? I'm not going to question. I'm just going to go with the flow. I think you're going with

Speaker 1

the flow. You're going with the flow. Okay, so 2008, we have I Am Sasha Fierce. 5.7.

Speaker 2

Not a loved album.

Speaker 1

No, here's my question. If they ever Sunday review it, do you think it would be, what, upper eights or lower nines? I mean, that's the big question here.

Speaker 3

I mean, I think there's a little bit of institutional stubbornness that would make them want to keep it down still a little bit. Like it's going way past the fives. Clearly.

If they're reevaluating it. But, you know, I see them, Sasha Fierce, I think they're still going to be like, because, you know, the whole thing about that review is them being like, hating the concept of the album, that concept album.

Speaker 1

Sure.

Speaker 3

I think they'll maybe Double back on that, but still consider it mixed and they give it like a low eights.

Speaker 2

Like let's really, let's just really, so just in case listeners not aware of what was on that album, we're talking about a 5.7 for an album that contained these songs, If I Were a Boy,

Speaker 3

that's

Speaker 2

the low end of it, Halo, and Single Ladies, parenthetical, put a ring on it. I am not saying it's a perfect- They put the album that

Speaker 3

had Single Ladies in the fives. That's great. I'm not saying

Speaker 2

it's a perfect album, but for those three tracks alone, one of the greatest pop albums of all time, because those are three of the greatest pop songs of all time, I think it jumps up. I agree with Mac, though. I think they get a, they still get a little like sticky about being like, she was doing a Chris Gaines, she was doing like an alternate like- Sure.

I think it's just an alt ego, alternate ego. Yeah, you get the idea. But I, I would guess, I'm going to say mid eights. I say they mid eighted.

Speaker 1

I, I love it. I love it. I mean, there's no way to really like, you know, solve this right here. They will

Speaker 2

do it. They're going to do it eventually. No, for sure.

Speaker 3

I'm just saying from overall, if you had an album that was just a compilation of skits from Bloodhound Gang records, and then it also had single ladies on it, that's at least in the seventies. That's at least in the seventies.

Speaker 1

Agreed. Absolutely. All right. So, moving forward, 2011, we have four, that got a 7.8. 2013, we have, Beyonce, her self-titled album, 8.8 BNM, BNM. Also number three of the decade, which is, I think very significant. I mean, this is, Pitchfork has said that this is the third best album of 2010 through 2019, which is Giant. I mean, they're essentially saying that this is a ten of an album.

It was also,

Speaker 2

that is what won me the decade, our decade draft, and I will never forget it or her for doing that for me. Beyonce, thank you for your service.

Speaker 1

four also, by the way, got number 31 of the decade. So, I mean, that's pretty significant as well.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

here we go. We're moving on to 2016's Lemonade,

Speaker 2

8.5.

Speaker 1

A

Speaker 3

dip down for Lemonade. Yeah, yeah. Down for Lemonade, 8.8, 8.5.

Speaker 2

But a small, a small dip, but, and I think it kind of makes sense. Well, we'll get into it, but yes.

Speaker 1

number 41 of the decade, by the way. then we have 2018, a joint album with, Jay-Z, Everything Is Love, 8.2 B&M. They

Speaker 2

know each other. I like, so. I love that that 8.2, my favorite thing about that 8.2 BNM is that it could have gone either way, and I love the thought that it could have gone to a non-BNM and broken her streak. But well, I mean, you could argue that it didn't because it's a collaborative album, but I love that it did get the B&M and it just, we've got a, we've got a perfect little four, little four.

You

Speaker 3

know, I, I, I think they, they, in the review, they characterized it as the final install, installment in a trilogy that is Lemonade, Jay-Z's 444, and that, and I think that they're, they're, they're like, look, these other records, and especially Lemonade, are like momentous records, so we feel like we don't want to miss out on that,

Speaker 2

but we

Speaker 3

have a sneaking suspicion this isn't as special or memorable as either of those records. Sure. Hence the 8-2 B&M.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's interesting. I agree with that. I think they're like, we want it, we want to give the trilogy what it's due as a trilogy, but as a standalone album, we have to admit this might not be a B&M. This might not be the best of the new musics.

Speaker 1

all right, moving on to 2019 with Homecoming. I think this is your two favorite album review of all time.

Speaker 2

You know how if I can feel. I don't need to say it again.

Speaker 1

9.3 BNM. And I'm sure we will discuss whether or not... We don't

Speaker 2

need to. We don't need to. We know that it's bullshit. There's no reason to discuss the complete bullshit in it of rating a documentary and pretending that the live album is the same thing. It's like if you rated Bo Burnham's Inside. I

Speaker 3

mean, do you want to get into it? Because I have the quote. We could definitely do it. I have the quote.

Speaker 2

Let's dive. Let's do. Let's talk. Let's talk about this.

Speaker 3

Okay, because that's... Is that the last one on the list, Duffy, anyways?

Speaker 1

I have more talking points, but we can pause right here and just dive into a little Homecoming rant. We're going

Speaker 3

to be dodging back and forth. I love it. I love it. It's going to be a very nonlinear, you know, psychedelic experience of a deep dive.

so,

Speaker 2

okay,

Speaker 3

okay,

Speaker 2

so

Speaker 3

here's the deal, here's the thing. for, for, for a short-time listener who hasn't heard us cover this before, or cover it in real time when it happened, you, you know, so Homecoming is a, is a special, a Netflix special that, Beyonce Knowles, Queen Bey, put out, it documenting her performance at, and the lead up to her performance at, Coachella around that time, whatever it was, 2018, 19, something like that.

Speaker 2

Really, really quick question for you, Mac. I'm, I'm just sorry, I'm just curious, cause Netflix not known for, releasing, you know, audio albums, so it's interesting that they did an audio album, they just released a straight audio album. Yeah,

Speaker 3

and Pitchfork not known for movie reviews. They have the, they, they, they have the Dissolve for that, and, the, the, the Rest in Peace, the Dissolve.

so, and so, so The highest rating for Beyoncé for her entire career is for a live album,

Speaker 2

and

Speaker 3

in, even in the review, they say the following, Homecoming doesn't stand on its own as an album experience, separate from the film. It probably doesn't need to. Beyoncé and her sister Solange increasingly rely on visuals to paint a fully embodied and populated vision that includes music. Homecoming, in accompaniment to a concert film, feels as if it wasn't ever meant to be experienced in isolation.

Speaker 2

Still, it could be one of

Speaker 3

Beyoncé's most important releases for how it illuminates both her past and, her future.

Speaker 2

That's, that's from

Speaker 3

the Pitchfork review of the Homecoming album, which they gave a 9.3 BNM,

Speaker 2

drives me up a wall. It's like them sitting there being like, I want to talk about it. And they're like, well, yeah, but it's a, it's a documentary. We can't, that's not really our thing. No, I want to talk about it. Well, I mean, okay, but like,

Speaker 3

It just seems like they were at a moment where they were just like, look, we need an excuse to shout from the rafters that Beyonce is the greatest thing since Jesus Christ himself. And we're going to use this live album to comment on, we're basically going to give our, our sort of lifetime achievement rating for her career thus far to this thing that we don't think deserves to be listened to on its own.

Speaker 2

Yeah, we want to admit that. Honestly, it feels like a straight up SEO grab. It feels like when you search Homecoming, god damn it, we want you to come to Pitchfork. We need you to get to Pitchfork. Is Homecoming the album actually an album? You know, no, no. We admit that right here.

Speaker 1

Yeah, but I, I'll, you know, not, not to, not to, defend Pitchfork.

Speaker 2

I will hunt you down.

Speaker 1

But, but let's, let's play a little Pitchfork advocate here. Let's,

Speaker 2

let's not. Let's just bury them in the fucking book.

Speaker 3

But,

Speaker 1

but do you think that they, so first off, do you think that the 8.5 for Lemonade would have been a 8.5 for Lemonade if it wasn't for the, the Lemonade, movie that, that accompanied it, if you will? Yes. Okay. I,

Speaker 3

I do, because they, they, they, they, they don't even give much,

lip service to, or, or, type service to the visual album aspect of Lemonade in that review.

Speaker 2

And also as a, as a kind of personal take, like I never, I watched that once. It was, it was cool, but like the albums did very much to decide from that. I did not need the visuals for it.

Speaker 1

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. so I guess my other question would be, you know, Pitchfork, a, you know, trying to be on the cusp of everything that's happening in music, be ahead of it, you know. do you think that they were thinking, they, they, they were guessing that the writings on the wall, that this is the future of music, of, you know, having a, a, a, a streaming visual to accompany their album? I don't know.

I'm just, I'm just tossing it out there. It's a good

Speaker 2

question. I just think that if they did, they would have approached the review from that point instead of kind of over and over being like, yeah, this album does not stand on its own. Like they could have, they could have even said, look, we are reviewing this connected to the visuals. You know what I mean? This, we are talking about the documentary.

Speaker 1

Wait, hold on. I think that you are saying the same thing, but Saying it's not the same thing.

Speaker 2

Please. How am I doing? You

Speaker 1

just said, you just said, Pitchfork saying this album doesn't stand on its own without the visuals, without saying this, this. No, I'm saying they

Speaker 2

reviewed the album. They did not put, this is a review of Beyonce dot homecoming dot com, the documentary, and this is our number for that. They said, this is our review for Homecoming, the album.

Speaker 1

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. And it's a lie.

Speaker 2

It's a straight up fucking lie.

Speaker 3

I think that in the course of that review, they make a very compelling argument for why this product is incredibly important.

Speaker 1

Sure. And,

Speaker 3

and, and, and, and like, I think they make a very good argument for the importance of that performance and, and everything surrounding it. But I feel like that is not On the album in isolation. Like the album in a vacuum doesn't provide all that.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 3

And I think this would have been better as a feature article. It's,

Speaker 2

it's really, I very much agree with that. It's like if you reviewed, Bo Burnham's Inside as an album and not as the comedy special.

Speaker 1

Sure.

Speaker 2

They are, it, I love the songs, but you needed the special to love the songs. You, the songs themselves, if that had just been like, here's my fun, fun comedy album, I don't think would have stood anywhere near on that same level.

Speaker 1

Yeah. And I think that in my, my only argument is, do you ignore, is Pitchfork Is it Pitchfork's duty to ignore the visuals because they are a music website, or is it better that they include the whole package? You know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2

I feel like Mac answered that when he said it could have just been a feature article.

Speaker 1

Sure. Like they could have done all of this and had it and talked about

Speaker 2

all of it. This feels like they wanted it in the canon. They wanted when you search Beyonce and you search Homecoming that you find this, and then the review is a justification trying to ham fist it in there.

Speaker 3

But,

Speaker 2

oh, okay. All right. All right. But even just to

Speaker 3

counter myself, to counter Mike and I, I, I, I, I just don't think they give a shit. Like, like, I, I don't think they're, you know, they're obvi, ob, yeah, and that's sort of, you know, pulling the rug out, out from under our podcast is that they don't, it's just like,

Speaker 2

like, they just could

Speaker 3

do it, they wanted to do it, and like, and, and like we saw, like, they, well, I don't remember, did they put it on the year-end list? Was, was, did you just mention that?

Speaker 1

Number fourteen of the year. Number fourteen.

Speaker 3

Okay, okay, so never mind on that count. I was going to say that they, they, they didn't put it on the year-end list, they didn't have it interrupt the flow of the,

Speaker 1

you know, out.

Speaker 2

I think that

Speaker 1

Norman fucking Rockwell came out that year, so that was a nine four, which was the number one of that year. But that would, typically a nine three would be at least top ten. So I,

Speaker 2

I very much agree with Matt. Like, this is, this is just fun to bitch about. Like, this is just fun to complain about. Sure, I agree with

Speaker 1

that.

Speaker 2

It's not,

Speaker 3

it's too rich that they have a sentence. Like, sure, it doesn't work as an album.

Speaker 2

I, I, I am affronted, I am furious, but also like, do I think Pitchfork cares and do I think they should really care? No, not, not really. They have, they have more egregious offenses.

Speaker 1

You know what? I, I'm going to say this, though. I, as a last, probably the last thing, maybe not the last thing, I don't fucking know, but I think that I would prefer them to overrate this album because when you watch that fucking documentary or whatever, it is so goddamn entertaining. It is worthy of a nine three. It is worthy of a higher rating than a nine three, in my opinion.

It is very entertaining. It is very, it's beautiful. Everything about it is like, you understands how dedicated, like you are, you walk out of that going, I'm, I'm a Beyonce fan. I don't, I don't even know who that person is. And I, I, I, I want to listen to every single thing that she does.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. Now it's your bidet.

Speaker 3

Well. Oh boy. but, but, and also like, one of the big things about that concert being how well it brings in so much of the, greatness of black arts culture and different elements of it into one house and onto one stage really benefits from the context that that Netflix special gives it, you know? and, and it is an overwhelming and beautiful thing with all that context, you know? And, and I'm sure they've looked at that and it's like, okay, well we have this context, everybody reading this review has Netflix and the ability to get that context, and once you do, listening to the album does become an ecstatic experience, you know? So I can see narrowly that like, I, I can

see the rationale, for sure. I disagree, but I can see it. I,

Speaker 2

I agree with everything you just said. I disagree with it, but I see it.

Speaker 3

So are we ready to, start talking about Beyonce's career?

Speaker 1

Okay, so one last thing, one last thing about, Pitchfork and, and Beyonce. First off, 11 BNTs, I don't know if that's the most we've ever talked about, but that's a lot. I think Kanye might have more, I don't know.

Speaker 3

now,

Speaker 1

now, there are quite a few non-Beyonce albums that she just was a contributor to that got a BNT, but I included them because fuck it, why not? You know what?

Speaker 2

I think if you, if you were there, if you were there when the song happened and you made your, and you made music for the song, it's your BNT too, man.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I agree, I agree. Did they

Speaker 3

BNT that song on Watch the Throne that she was on? That's among my least favorites on Watch the Throne, not her

Speaker 2

whole. yeah, but it is one of the worst songs on that album.

Speaker 3

I'll, I'll

Speaker 1

look, but I don't know.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

okay, so, so also, and while, while we're talking about tracks here, into the decade list, Beyonce has number four of the decade with Formation, number 28 of the decade with Countdown, number 157th of the decade with One Plus One, that equals two, everybody, that equals two. and then we have 182nd. This

Speaker 3

is the kind of general education you get when you have dads on a podcast. They're used to telling you these interesting facts.

Speaker 1

Then we have XO, which got 182nd of the decade. So she landed four times, and this I actually didn't include all the Beyonce, you know, featuring Beyonce on this, on the top 200 of the decade, but there's a few more. So these are just Beyonce tracks that landed on the best songs of the decade. So I thought that was interesting. Hey, why not? Why throw it out there? It's amazing.

Speaker 3

And I like formation being at the top, because I really feel like that is, like not only just personally one of her more interesting and better singles, you know, potentially up there in the realm of single ladies, but it was also specifically for this website, one of the more interesting singles that she can do, because it was like, you know, it shows her evolution the most.

That is a song that she would have never put out on bidet, you know?

Speaker 2

Absolutely not. Or I Am Sasha Fierce. It doesn't match there with Halo and all the single ladies.

It encapsulates the evolution of Beyoncé, I think.

Speaker 3

So we start out in the early 2000s, and it's important to remember that at this point, Beyoncé is already a famous person. I would probably think she was a household name at that point. Destiny's Child had this amazing run of hits, and she's in blockbuster movies, multiple. And, you know, and like, again, we didn't, you know, we pick up with the first solo record of hers that, unless there's something in the Wayback Machine that they reviewed, was her second album, you know.

And she was already very established, and it seems like, and correct me if you guys think I have this Characterized wrong, but that their outlook on her at the beginning was like, oh, she's a pretty good pop star. That thing that, pop star, that thing that we're suspicious of from the get-go, she's pretty good.

Speaker 2

Agreed.

Speaker 3

You know? Like, it's a little sloppy, they're talking like on bidet, a lot of the sentiment

is, and I'm going to keep calling it bidet, a lot of the sentiment is just being like, oh, she's not really executing on the pop perfection

of her first album and Destiny's Child that well. But like, she's still doing well, but like they specifically, you know, refer to bidet as sounding like, you know, an entire album of third and fourth singles. So they are, and that is, you could see how they would get there because there is It's easy to get antsy when like person from the big boy group or girl group or something goes solo because that's so, mostly falls flat.

It's very rare that you get a Justin Timberlake.

Speaker 2

Yes. And I think that they often are like, oh, we're, at, you know, when it came to pop super groups at that time, Pitchfork would have been pretty averse. So allowing her to make that transition and, and to open themselves up to be like this, this shit's fucking dope, you know, it involved meeting in the middle.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, I, I, I think it is an interesting, one, you know, you know, testament to the, the, the, the fact, you know, it getting positively reviewed at all on this website that is not apt to review things of this genre positively is a bit of an accomplishment, or for lack of a better term, and their, their willingness to meet it where it, where, where it is, is, an early sign of, oh, things are changing a little bit at Pitchfork.

Speaker 2

Was, was Worldwide Woman on Badair on her first album?

Speaker 3

Worldwide Woman, I believe, was on bidet. You mean the, the, the one where she tells you about how you can log in anywhere?

Speaker 2

Yep.

Speaker 3

she's a worldwide woman, www.

Speaker 2

The one, the one where they're like, hey, you know what's popular right now? The web. Let me blow your mind now. What if the web was a woman?

Speaker 3

We got to strike while this web is hot. It's not going to last. We got to get in there talking about how you can click my URL or whatever.

Speaker 2

I don't want to ruin it for listener, but listener, if you have a chance to listen to Worldwide Woman, give yourself a treat of what came before Halo. It

Speaker 3

is just a phenomenal time capsule of just, just a sort of goofiness that now, that feels like the 1950s at this point.

Speaker 2

For sure.

Speaker 3

Then we move into like the second phase. We get like, you know, Sasha Fierce and Four. And all of a sudden she's gone from like, oh, pretty good for a pop singer to We don't like this. We don't like Sasha Fierce, but we still are tackling it critically and sort of giving it, giving it a lot of attention, thinking that like she is like, we don't like the way that she is being, you know, that she is stretching her boundaries, but we're acknowledging that she is.

And then we get to four, where it's just like, oh, she is actually doing something different from,

she is taking a chance. She is not going back to the well of where she's been most successful, and she's doing something that works. Kind of as well as the stuff that we liked better. She's doing something that is bringing in pop sounds that weren't into zeitgeist. There was a little, there was a little bit of a retro element, a little bit of like an old soul element to that album.

This is, to me, the era where they go from thinking she's a pretty good pop star to like maybe this person has something special.

Speaker 2

I agree. And I also think that it's the era where she jumps from,

a singles lady to an albums lady.

Speaker 3

Yeah, and it's a painful transition for them because they hate the way that like, so, so for, folks who haven't listened to I am dot dot dot space Sasha Fierce, it is an album, it is a double album, but kind of like a double EP, like they're like each side of it only has six or seven songs on it, but one side is Beyonce and one side is her new alter ego, Sasha Fierce, you know? that second side starting with Single Ladies.

And they, a lot of the, a lot of the words in that article are about how like, oh, she's Chris Gaines-ing it, Chris Gaines being, the alter ego of Garth Brooks that famously fell flat, you know, she's doing, this is too silly. It, it really in retrospect, reading that review seems to expose more how self-serious, and sort of buttoned up Pitchfork was starting to feel, like they were starting to feel behind the times and, and, and, you know, unwilling for, unwilling to indulge the idea of fun in music.

Speaker 2

Totally, yes. And then making that jump over to four and Beyonce, all of a sudden she's doing things where it's like the concentration isn't on those singles. The concentration is on the album, and that's pitchfork nip. That is, that's what they want. That jump is going to catch them.

Speaker 3

In retrospect, when we're going into this other phase that starts with Beyonce, the phase where it's like, oh, fuck, this person is, like the quick, the succession of like, oh, this person's great, actually, to this person's incredible, actually, to this person's a goddamn god,

Speaker 2

or

Speaker 3

whatever. It's, there's a stark contrast with one of their complaints about Bidet, where they say,

Most of all, though, Beyoncé just sounds too real here. It was her pitch-perfect plasticity which gave much of her earlier work its majestic aura. If she had transcended ordinary goals and a narcissistic drive, as if she had transcended ordinary goals and a narcissistic drive for perfection, having voluntarily stepped down from her pedestal, she now struggles to inspire the same sense of awe.

Her songs emote as intensely as before, but their emotions are all too human. So that complaint becomes the thing that they love about her a few albums later.

Speaker 2

That's beautiful. Yeah, because that, and it makes sense that that leads to that. All of a sudden you've got that, that, that leading of Bidet to Sasha Fierce up into Four and up into Beyonce feels like a thing that Pitchfork just didn't, and look, man, who could have seen that coming? I'm not really going to slam them for that, but it now in retrospect is a very clean build of an artist finding, themselves and then expressing themselves and their art in new and more interesting ways.

And, you know, I don't, I don't think Beyonce needs my applause, but good, good on you. Good, good on you.

Speaker 1

What I really love about Beyonce and actually when you even go all the way back to Destiny's Child and the relationship with Pitchfork is You kind of see actually really the progression of Pitchfork with how they approach music in general, because if you read that, that Destiny's Child, review from 2005, it's like all talking about like, yeah, yeah, okay, so what? It's a good album.

It's co, but yeah, I know, I'm a serious guy, but here it is. It's right here. It's good. It's, Jake, check it out. I know you're not gonna, but it's, hey, hey, come on. It has some, yeah.

Speaker 3

If you happen to catch me in the mood to condescend to some pop music, I'll do it with this one, and you're lucky for that. Don't ask me to listen to a different one. This

Speaker 2

character that you guys are doing sounds very at home making a large pizza pie. Like.

Speaker 3

I'm, I'm a Pitchfork reviewer. I was an English major, and I have highfalutin thoughts and stuff, but don't make me listen to a pop song by a lady.

Speaker 2

I only love one kind of hot dog, and it's got tomatoes on it, and that's not a crime.

Speaker 1

But I, I, I, I mean, you know, you go from Pitchfork in the mid-2000s who are desperate to break, to, to, to introduce new bands to you. We want to give you your next favorite band.

Speaker 2

For sure,

Speaker 1

yeah. That, that is, that is their goal. That's the whole

Speaker 3

selling point.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Speaker 1

And, and Destiny's Child, though, that album was probably really great to them. They were like, we're not, we're not going to break them out. They're already broken out. We,

Speaker 3

we get nothing out of this.

Speaker 1

Yeah, exactly. It's how Pitchfork

Speaker 2

feels a lot with rap now, where it feels like they're, they're behind the curve. And so it's like, yeah, I, I, I agree with you.

Speaker 1

So, so here we are with, you know, even Sasha Fierce, you go, fucking Jeff, whatever, alter ego. We, we have, we have Animal Collective to talk about. We have, Sunset Rubdown and all this other stuff. And, you know, we want to, we want to introduce new people to you. And they probably very quickly realized that those days are over with, you know, the early teens, the whole blog, the blogging, you know, thing.

That we could talk to Mike about for, for probably two years about, and how, how Pitchfork just wasn't breaking artists out anymore, and they had... And,

Speaker 3

and also I think there was an element of indie rock getting, like, like peak indie rock, as it happened around, like, let's just say 2005, for sake of argument, or whatever. Yeah,

Speaker 1

sure, sure. And

Speaker 3

then that peak indie rock formula getting repeated over and over and becoming stale, all of a sudden I think... Maybe Pittsburgh realized that a lot of their listenership, a lot of their, their, their indie rock head listenership was themselves already turning to pop music because there was more sonic experimentation going on there and it was new and exciting.

Yep. And, and that's how they realized that it's like, oh, maybe there's a different angle for us here.

Speaker 2

I think it also kind of goes back to like that, I know I Am Sasha Fierce got a 5.7, but so there's a, a three year difference between that and four. And in that time, they heard, Halo and Single Ladies, and they heard those hits everywhere. And everyone that they fucking knew loved those fucking songs because those songs were fucking bangers.

Speaker 1

Sure.

Speaker 2

I think four, I think four came from the ashes of I Am Sasha Fierce. I think that it, it, it led the way for that.

Speaker 1

I think that's undeniable. I think that's totally undeniable. I mean, here's the thing. I think that we all could probably do a deep dive study into Pitchfork in 2010, late 2009, early 2010, when they were realizing that their formula just wasn't working anymore, and that's when they really leaned into the Good Friday and, you know, Kanye West, and they just struck gold with a, you know, that whole situation.

And I think that kind of... I know we're totally off subject here of Beyoncé, but I think that changed the trajectory of Pitchfork from indie webzine or whatever into we're going to be a serious contender here in the music critic universe or whatever. Anyway. In the

Speaker 2

critical world. I agree. Yep,

Speaker 1

yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 2

And then I think I also that the trend, so four into Beyoncé. And Beyonce especially were, were, big on the, on, on feminism. Like they, it was, it was a market part of Beyonce and mentioning, like it, it was a trajectory of that album. That was becoming

Speaker 3

baked into her records more and more. Yeah, yeah, and part of her as an artist.

Speaker 2

It's hard to judge it from a critical point, and I wouldn't. I wouldn't try to give it any kind of intrinsic or outside value. On a personal level, the way that she turned those things and then she had the whole, the cheating thing came out and then she made lemonade. The way that she was like, I'm not going to just ignore how this fits into this.

I'm not going to ignore how I can be feminist and still experience pain and still go through this thing. I'm not going to, to, to discount the power of,

of being a woman while also, and, and I'm going to dive into the hurt of that. That's hard. That is a hard thing to fucking do when you're basically like, I am at, I am, I am the top of this chain and then also acknowledge. I don't know. I thought, really felt like she nailed that tone. And I think even though Lemonade got an 8.5, I think that, that, that, that really, that culminated her as someone that can express a lot of things in a lot of interesting ways and also does not back down from a very difficult subject.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I, I, I, I mean, I think in general, there, there, there was a little bit of a sea change Occurring during the, gradually during the, Sasha, Sasha Fierce and, Four period, that, that, that would then, that, that, that would then arrive by the time of the self-titled album, whereas just she went from on bidet and then gradually changing over the course of the next few records, somebody who was able to

put their finger on the pulse of pop music and execute it at, you know, at a very high level to somebody who recognized that they could Not adopt or just shrewdly manage where the pop music zeitgeist was, but affect it.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Take

Speaker 3

it somewhere different, you know? For

Speaker 2

sure.

Speaker 3

Like if you look at Four with a lot of its, more retro sensibilities, its sort of retro modernism, that wasn't an easy slam dunk, you know? That, that, that, that wasn't, that, that was, perhaps less safe move than she'd been doing before. And then on self-titled, she starts getting a little bit more experimental, and she starts bringing in things that aren't necessarily in the zeitgeist yet, but then become something that's in the zeitgeist, you know? And we see that with her changing identity as a performer, as an artist.

We also see that with the machine around her, and in the way that the record was released. Like, If you go back and read the review for her self-titled album, it is remarkable how the dominant character, the dominant thing that they're talking about is the release strategy of the record. Because that was a surprise album in a time when there had been surprise albums, but not many.

And that I think you can really point to as the biggest influence in why surprise albums became such a thing for the next however many years, arguably until and including now.

Speaker 2

That

Speaker 3

was It was just at that time, and it's kind of hard to remember it as mind-blowing, but it was like mind-blowing that she released her album, you know, late at night on a Thursday on iTunes. Yeah. Without any warning and without any idea that she even had a new album, you know, ready to go.

Speaker 2

Yeah, if, if Radiohead frontlined the pay-as-you-go method, Beyonce really frontlined the, the surprise album as a, as, as a, marketing thing. And I, I don't even mean that she intended it as that, but there were benefits. Oh, she absolutely

Speaker 3

did.

Speaker 2

I think so too. But I also don't think she could, I don't think there's any way having not, that not having been, like done at that level before, she could not have predicted exactly how it would go. I still think it was a brave and interesting thing to do. Now we are all like, oh, here's the benefits of that. Here are the downsides of that.

But at the time, I think it was, it was still very forward-thinking and fascinating.

Speaker 3

Yeah, there's a thing about Beyonce fandom. That, that, you know, there is just the sort of, sincere and direct fandom where it's just like, people really like her music a lot, and people like people whose music they like a lot. But there is a meta element to it, where like, it seems like in so much of the praise of Beyonce I read, it's praise in how well she does the job of being a pop star.

You know? It is this sort of thing of being like, oh man, she's manipulating me in such a canny way, you know? And people admire that, and there, that is a whole complicated issue that gets to, that, that is bigger than just Beyonce, it comes down to people's fandom with tech companies and all sorts of stuff.

Speaker 2

Or like the, or like, wrestling, where it's like, oh yeah, that idea of like, but it's fake, and it's like, no, they, that, that isn't the, that's not the conversation.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it's like, yeah, we all know there's artifice here, but it's like, oh, this person I feel like is so shrewd in their execution of that artifice or whatever.

Speaker 2

Absolutely.

Speaker 3

That is a huge part of, it is a huge part of these pitchfork reviews, is this sort of meta talk of being like, look, we don't know what's true and what's not true and blah, blah, blah. Like, there's a lot of that on the lemonade thing, because, you know, we go to lemonade, and by that time there had already been stories about perhaps infidelity in a relationship with a young Jason Seas, a rapper from New York.

Speaker 2

Oh, I've heard of him.

Speaker 3

And I know it's not short for Jason. But a lot of it is about, like, she is, in a way, you know,

using the public understanding of her as a shorthand To create a narrative. It is, it is, it is like, lemonade is like a middle season of a TV show. You already know the characters. Yes. And you're putting them in a compelling situation. Yes.

Speaker 2

You know what I mean? That's perfect. I was just, I was just talking to a friend of mine about that same concept with Marvel movies, about how like there are, those first ones used to be like, oh, I always liked the first one the most where they introduce the character and it's all downhill. As the universe expands, well, these ones where they're like seven layers deep and you're seeing this person that you've seen go throughout it, those become the most interesting.

Similarly, I think lemonade kind of hits that same track. She becomes a real person. She becomes relatable. She becomes not just someone that is espousing values that you're not sure that she follows, but she becomes someone that exists in the real world, experiences things that you experience, and yeah, it's super relatable.

Speaker 3

Well, yeah, and, and, and it becomes a sort of dual thing of like, okay, what, what levels do you enjoy, don't hurt yourself, the song on? Do you, do you enjoy it as a song? Do you also think that that is such a thing, or do you think that's an interesting development in this chapter of this story?

Speaker 2

Yes. Yeah, for sure. And I think, I, I think Lemonade brought all of those things together in a way that really made, that, there's a little thing that tosses back to, that, that you, that I Am Sasha Fierce was a misstep. and even though it leads to everything else after it, there is that thing that everything else is Beyonce coming into Beyonce, and that step of establishing an alter ego was not the right move.

It was fun and it created some amazing songs. But

Speaker 3

it was a shaky step into ambition, and ambition has marked her greatest successes.

Speaker 2

Yes, that's, yeah, and that's amazing. So could, could Beyonce become Beyonce without I Am Sasha Fierce? I don't know. No, there's no way to answer that question. But, was that, was the most interesting part of Beyonce and Alter Ego? The answer to that question has been answered.

Speaker 1

So, so, okay, let's, I'm going to shift gears here. I'm just going to go ahead and grab the old gear shift and put it. I love it when

Speaker 3

you shift my gears.

Speaker 2

First, second, third, fourth, I go to fifth.

Speaker 1

So let's talk about, let's talk about recent, let's talk about Pitchfork. Okay, so Beyonce, I think is, I think we all can agree, is either a big mama or really close to being a big mama. I would argue that she is.

Speaker 3

I don't think we have to argue. Large, huge, gigantic. I would

Speaker 2

vote, yeah, if she, she may even should be larger, so yes.

Speaker 3

And one of the few that has become that from a place where she was in a genre that was hated by the website. For sure. She's unique in that way.

Speaker 2

The trajectory of four straight B&Ms in a row is along there with Perfume Genius and Destroyer. She

Speaker 3

went from tolerated mother to gigantic.

Speaker 1

So, but let's Talk about Pitchfork and their recent, I don't know, relationship with their big mamas. We have, we have, Arcade Fire. We have Kendrick Lamar.

Speaker 2

We have,

Speaker 1

and I think, how do those

Speaker 2

go, Duffy? I just don't, I couldn't, were those, not,

Speaker 1

not well, not great. Okay, just

Speaker 2

double checking that. Thank you.

Speaker 1

And, and this one's been kind of, stewing in the, the, the teens, but we have, you know, Kanye West. Stewing in the

Speaker 2

teens is a, is a rough one.

Speaker 1

So, so we have Kanye West who kind of has, you know, obviously bumped down from being a big mama. so my question is, where does Beyonce land in the, the world of being a big mama in the modern Pitchfork? Because, and, and obviously there's, there is a difference, and you can't compare Beyonce with, with all these other, you know, musicians, but, but I, I kind of want to, want to dissect that.

Where, especially with, one would argue I'm So I could see you, Mac. I could see you ready. You, you, you have, you haven't.

but, but do you think that this new single is,

different from all her previous out, you know, output and all that stuff? and also, do you think that that's going to make a huge difference in this particular album?

Speaker 2

I'm going to take this first because I think Mac is going to take this better. But I want to split those into two different questions. And the first one is, is Pitchfork ready to kill its gods? And that, I think, is, the answer is yes, but also those gods, got complacent. So, I don't, I, it's not a clean cut answer. It's just that they are, they are ready to tear down something that they don't feel like is delivering, and they might even be hungry for it.

So if this record is, is medium, if this record, let's say it's an eight, I think it could easily get underrated because they're ready to tear it down. But I don't think they'd kill it for it not being that. That's my thoughts on it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, I mean, you, you, the, the, the big mamas you chose all happen to be big mamas who have, if, either fallen from grace or are on shakier ground than they were last time around. Sure. and, and when, when it, when it comes to big Mike positing that they're ready to kill their gods, you're, you're, you're big Mike now. I love it.

Yes, absolutely. I, I, I, I, like, I think the framing of that is even, they love to kill their gods. Yes. They are horny for killing their

Speaker 1

gods. Yes, that's true. They are

Speaker 3

diamond tip rock hard for killing their gods. Yes, that's

Speaker 1

true.

Speaker 3

they, that's why a big mama is such a notable thing, where it's just like, oh, like, they couldn't, like, like they even to themselves are like, had to give this out, this band a fucking five album B&M streak or whatever. That's, that's why it's a notable thing.

Speaker 1

Yep.

Speaker 3

and, and I went into looking at this being like, like, like personally wondering if this is the moment where the public could potentially turn on Beyonce. Like, because she, and really the, the whole, you know, brand that is Her, and, her, her, her kid's dad and that whole sort of thing is like, it, it, it's so big, so ubiquitous, and so, you know, going back to that thing of there being a sort of meta element to people's fandom of her, so manicured.

And people love the manicured nature of something until there's a twig that snaps, until there's a little bit of a fly in the ointment. And then all of a sudden they're, they're no longer, all of a sudden they realize, why am I being an unpaid intern for this person's PR goals, you know?

Speaker 1

Sure. Sure.

Speaker 3

But reading through the reviews, there's nothing published by the website that seems to indicate they're ready to do anything but single out Beyonce as the greatest single thing that could ever exist in humanity. You know what I mean? Like just ending on that, that homecoming thing. I don't know. But that said, It's been a while since Homecoming, and they haven't published a lot.

And going in with that idea of, like, going in with that initial expectation of, like, maybe they could be willing to change, and then not seeing that in the text, well, there hasn't been a lot of text recently. So we're in kind of a tough spot about that.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

We haven't talked about this particular song, too. We haven't talked about the fact that all we have from this album is a house song, and we don't know what that means about the album. Is this a house album? Is this, as I more suspect, an element in an album that has a lot of diversity? I don't know.

Speaker 3

Well, let's tackle that thing, because there are multiple things I'd like to talk about with the new album, and one of them is that exact question. Is this a house album, or is that, or is this a diverse album on which we have only heard the house song?

Speaker 2

That's my view, but yes. She

Speaker 3

recently did an interview with British Vogue magazine, which is when the, which was, you know, came out like, you know, whatever, five minutes before the single dropped or something, and that's where we got the album announcement was through this British Vogue article. And in it, it's, you know, it's, it's one of those things, it's not a straight question-answer interview format.

It is a profile, it is a story, you know, a first-person story from the point of view of the, of this interviewer, and Their time with Beyonce, you know, and part of that involved them, you know, doing this elaborate photo shoot. Now, this elaborate photo shoot is very consciously evoking house.

Speaker 2

Like

Speaker 3

it is consciously evoking house, disco, club culture, and everything that surrounds it. The cover of Vogue is Horace ride a horse, much like Bianca Jagger was famously in Studio 54, you know. the, a lot of the fashion, it's just, it's just clear reading that, that those were the touchstones, you know, was dance, club culture, and a lot of it specifically 80s and 90s house.

And there was another point after the photo shoot where the author goes to meet Beyonce and have dinner at her house and has a lot of glowing bullshit about being like, she wasn't even wearing makeup, it's crazy, it's just like us. she was wearing a hoodie, can you believe it? and then at some point... That was a $9,000

Speaker 2

hoodie.

Speaker 3

At some point, they do give a vague, but perhaps interesting description of them listening to her new album. So, with,

it reads as follows, with minimal ceremony, she takes her laptop and plugs it in as we all sit on some sofas. Quietly, the superstar hits play on her upcoming album. Instantly, a wall of sound hits me. Soaring vocals and fierce beats combine in a split second, and I'm transported back to the clubs of my youth. Aside from Mac here, this person's youth was like the 80s and 90s.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 3

back to the clubs of my youth. I want to get up and start throwing moves. It's music I love to my core, music that makes you rise, that turns your mind to cultures and subcultures, to our people past and present, music that will unite so many on the dance floor, music that touches your soul as ever with Beyoncé, it is all about the intent.

I sit back after the wave, absorbing it all, absorbing it all, rather. So there's no specific mention of house music in there, but it feels heavily implied.

Speaker 2

Yep, I agree. Okay, I feel like that's a good point to dive into predictions. I feel like that sets us up from where we are coming from. I feel like that sets us up for where we're at. Is there anything else that we feel like we need to cover before we get real deep into what we think about what's going to happen?

Speaker 3

I, I, I, I'm good. I'm ready to go.

Speaker 1

Okay. Okay. God, I have to kick the puppy, don't I?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I did it last time. I'm glad that I did it too. I'm glad that I took the opportunity to offer the puppy kicking so I didn't have to do it this time. Fuck you.

Speaker 1

Okay. Okay, so here we go. all right.

Speaker 3

Don't you dare fuck this up, Duffy.

Speaker 2

Yeah, oh my God. And also by fuck it up, I mean don't take our scores.

Speaker 1

This is such, this is a really, this is truly a tough one, especially with, like I was saying, you know, and, and, and granted what, what Max said is true, me, you know, zeroing out, you know, Kanye West or, Kendrick Lamar or Arcade Fire as like, you know, the dethroning of the big mamas. Yeah, well, the, the, the, the output has not been really stellar, so this isn't, this is an easy dethrone, if you will.

But I, I, I also just want to state that I think that they overexceeded their, the, the, the, the lowering of their, their reviews. You know, one could argue that getting a ten is the best chance that you could get a zero with Pitchfork, because that has happened, more to more tens than, than any other artist, Sonic Youth, et cetera, et cetera.

so, so I think that it is, I think Pitchfork, as much as they love having a big mama, I think that they really love Throning a Big Mama. So the big question is, is this going to be Beyonce's dethroning? And I,

I think the answer is a mixed answer, which is yes and no. I think that this is an album that's not going to get a B&M. That's, that, that is what I'm going to predict. I think that it's, it's an easy,

it's easy for them to go that route because it's so different, if, if Vogue is correct, which they probably aren't. But, you know, we, we heard the one single, it's very housey, and I think that that's an easy thing to lean into. I, I don't know if this is what, you know, Pitchfork is looking for.

so. I, I think that I'm just going to go with a very simple, not really a huge dethrone, but also at the same time for Beyonce, maybe it is, an 8.0, no B&M. I don't really have much more to say about it, but this is just the feeling that I have. I could be totally wrong, and I probably will be, but that's what I'm going with. 8.0, no B&M.

Speaker 3

Duffy, your feelings are bold, brave, and beautiful, and I admire them.

yeah, yes, yes to all of that. This is a really challenging one, and I know I say that every single time, but it's true every single, oh no, it's true 75% of the time.

Speaker 1

like,

Speaker 3

yeah, like this could, I think they're horny for tearing down their idols when they see a weakness, you know? and I think there is this sort of There, there, there is a potential angle on this thing of like, it's just too much. It's just too much of this sort of like we've deigned the Carter's royalty, you know, and they are so exhaustingly perfect and all this stuff, you know, and now maybe, and, and again, I'm just for the purposes of this prediction, assuming she's making a straight up fucking house record, you know, I might be wrong.

There might be calypso, there might be reggae, whatever, but I'm just, and if so, I'm, I'm fucked or whatever, but I'm just assuming that, no, this is her thing, I'm doing a house record, everybody's, you know, Spent all this time in lockdown, and this is the summer, we thought it was going to be last summer, wasn't last summer. This is the summer where people are outside.

You know, and this is the summer where, you know, I mean, they make a, a, a really interesting correlate, correlation, in the Pittsburgh Track Review for Break My Soul for like, what purpose house music served in the eighties and nineties during the AIDS epidemic, in that there was, this was a thing, this was the only way people could,

people, especially in like the, you know, LGBTQIA community, really have a space to mourn and celebrate the lives of the people they had lost. It was a thing that was so Still taboo at that time to even acknowledge that we had this mass tragedy going on in the US, you know? And again, we have no,

you know, and they make this correlation between now and the COVID pandemic that like we've all, everybody knows somebody who's lost somebody, you know, and we've had this terrible experience and there is like, there is a sort of, this sad celebration, this need for it can be, you can use the same tool to do that, kind of, you know what I mean?

And That could, the timing, like, like, like, I could see Beyonce being like, okay, great, this is my thing. Like, I could see her mid last year being like, no, next summer is gonna be the one, and I want to give all these people who've been through such a hard time a party, a party that they can believe in, and a party that can not ignore, but encompass the tragedy they've been through, but a party nonetheless.

And the single comes out, and then Roe v. Wade gets struck down, you know? Like, I'm, I'm, I'm sorry to make this so political. But then Roe v. Wade, it gets struck down, and then it becomes, like, clear that we have this rogue court that is, set on, dissolving the separation between church and state, and, liberties and all this stuff. Like, sh, it's entirely possible she was getting ready for a party.

Right at the, and, and now it's a single right at the last moment when it looked like maybe we were getting ready to go for a party, but it's not necessarily a party, you know? Maybe it's the wrong tone. I am not going with that, though. I am, that, that is my barricades. I am going with my bullcades. and I don't know, I feel really conflicted about it, but it's just like, you know, I think, the, if the, if the mood of this album is party through the strife, party with the strife, party against the strife, you know? I think it could still be really effective.

like, I'm not sure if I will personally find it to be that, but, again, the only text I have from the website is this,

this sort of praise and devotion that seems,

that, that, that, that just seems like Yeah, they, they, they, they, in one of the reviews, they call her MJ level, you know? it's just like, I feel like if they were gonna turn on her, we would have seen a little bit more of a sign. We would have seen some more cracks in the actual text on the website. I feel like they are predisposed to like this album, even if the general consensus ends up being a little bit down on this album, I feel like Pitchfork is maybe gonna be one of the last, publications to come to that, you know?

but also, I'm saying a lot of highfalutin bullshit about a record I've heard one song off of, and it seems like it's gonna be a very long record, and it's also Act One. It might be a part one of many records, you know? that is, the title is Act One colon, Renaissance. I don't know what to do with this, but I'm gonna take that high. I think this is, this is the one where, where I, I feel comfortable taking that high.

I'm interested in it, but I'm not super convinced. so anyways, 8.8 p.m.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I, yeah, those are the two cases. You guys made both of the two cases. Like, so I'm not going to make the cases for, because that's already done. My thing is,

I'm going to approach it from a slightly different angle, which is, this, if we take

that, the one song that we have, and then we take that tie-in from the British Vogue, quote of, brought back to my youth. There's this element of nostalgia that starts feeling like it's running through this thing.

and I don't think Pitchfork likes nostalgia. I think they like new. I think they like a fresh take. And in the critiques that I saw for this new song, that was the negative side of it. That, the side of it which is like, Oh, another sample of this artist. Oh, it, it, this is, I've heard this before. This isn't new. And also

Speaker 3

Drake, sorry to interrupt, but Drake literally just tried this and failed.

Speaker 2

Yes, and failed miserably. We're talking like a 6.6 failure, I think. That said, it's Drake. Like, Drake was already on a downturn. but, you know, that's like, it's like what Duffy brought up earlier. But I agree, like, Drake just made a house album. It's hard to go, house album is about to take off. That said, he could have set such a low bar that he, and even an okay house album does better.

I love, I, I don't, I don't know. I really don't. but I, I like both of your takes, and I, this could be a nine. This could be a nine. This could be a seven. The seven, I think, is more unlikely than the nine. but I just, here, look, this is a personal fucking thing. I keep swinging hard. I keep swinging hard at fucking Kendrick. I keep swinging hard at Soccer Mommy.

I keep swinging hard at these different artists, and I keep on coming up short. And part of that is me taking what I think over the fact that this is a game about what Pitchfork thinks. And I, if I just look at what Pitchfork thinks, unfortunately, I agree with Duffy. And unfortunately, I exactly agree with Duffy. I, this, I really thought I was gonna be alone on this one.

I really fucking did. I didn't think either of you were coming near this. I felt so good about an 8.0. I don't think they slam her enough to take her down into, you know, I don't think they're trying to take her out, but it does feel like, is this this album for this time? For a lot of the reasons that Max said, and for just the feelings that I got while listening to that song, I think the answer is no.

I'm going to Beyoncé 8.0.

Speaker 3

Yeah, hon- honestly, with this discussion, I almost feel closer to you guys than I do to my own take at this point, but I, I also don't really trust my,

my sussing out of the surroundings.

Speaker 2

I feel like we're all on that space where it's like we're questioning our questions.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Back in a minute. Best new podcast listener, we are back and we're back to tuck you in, but before we do that, you know the score, you know what we always do. I say we're back to tuck you in, but really we're back to surreptitiously do something else before the tucking. A pre-tuck something else that I personally, today, like to call the lightning round.

Is that lightning sound? And, and, and, and now what we do in the lightning round is like what we just did, like with a deep dive, except not that long. Not nearly that long. Not even, not, not, not even half that long. We're, we're, we're just rattling them off. We're naming records. Sometimes we haven't even heard of the records, and we're just guessing, just blindly guessing what they're, what, what they're going to be rated.

Is that right? Have I gone crazy? Is that what we do?

Speaker 2

No, that's exactly what we do. That's what we live for.

Speaker 3

Well, I'm happy to do it again then, and I'm happy to have somebody hold my hand during the process. Mike, will you hold my hand and the listeners and Duffy's?

Speaker 2

I'll hold all of your hands until the end of time.

Speaker 3

Well, well, fuck yeah, dude, let's do this shit. All

Speaker 2

right, here we go. So let's start it off hot. Let's start it off fast. Let's start it off with metric. First of all, we've got metric and their album Formenter, Formentira, Formentera. That's fine. Either way, the metric.

Speaker 3

That,

Speaker 2

that sounds exactly right. The metric I'm going to measure this by is a 6.9.

Speaker 1

I'm going 6.4 because why not?

Speaker 3

I, yeah, God, I love, see, see, we're all on the same page here, 6.8.

Speaker 2

Now we've got, and you will know us by the Trail of the Dead, either 11 or 9, Roman numerals aren't my strong suit. And the album. Perfect. And the album Bleed Here Now, I don't know how, and you'll know us by the Trail of the Dead still gets rated relatively well, but I think they do. And yet that, I've still got to go a 7.0 on this one.

Speaker 1

I, you know, I just actually changed it instantly because I just remembered that I think the last one got like a 7.1 or something bizarre. 6.5 and they will name source codes and tags in the first paragraph. That is my guess.

Speaker 2

Never forget.

Speaker 3

6.2.

Speaker 2

Now we've got, Biba Doobie, in the album, Beatopia. I hate all of that. I hate that I had to say it. I hate that it exists. I do not know the band and I'm going a 7.6.

Speaker 1

I'm going 8.1. I think Pitchfork is gonna, I think they're gonna start getting on the, Bida Doobie train. Bida Doobie choo choo.

Speaker 3

See, we always talk about like, oh, oh, here's a person that the young people like that they're going to get on board with, and this is the time. Yeah, yeah. We did it with Kuko. Remember the Kuko deep dive? We did it with Claude. I remember him. I think Kuko has a... Yeah,

Speaker 1

absolutely.

Speaker 3

There's going to be a 7.1.

Speaker 2

Yep, for sure. Now we've got Black Midi and their album Hellfire. This is it. Fuck it. Fuck them. Fuck everybody. I'm going an 8.3. I'm calling a B&M. I think they're going to do it. I think they're going to fucking do it. 8.3 B&M.

Speaker 1

well, first off, fuck you, because I did 8.3 B&M as well. Yeah,

Speaker 2

hop on in.

Speaker 3

Shit.

Speaker 1

that's all. That's all. I'm just pissed about that.

Speaker 3

I, I, I, I love it. I'd love to see a B&M here, but also I'm still doing the Prague rules. It's a 7.9 I've got. 7.9.

Speaker 2

You are 100% right. now we've got Elf Power and their album, Artificial Countrysides. I don't, I think this is it. I think this is the time that Pitchfork stopped reviewing Elf Power. That said, I'm going to 7.3.

Speaker 1

I'm going 7.1.

Speaker 3

7.4.

Speaker 2

Now we've got Interpol and the other side of Make Believe, I truly hate that title, and on the other side of Make Believe, I believe is a 6.9.

Speaker 1

Interpol, Interpol, Mike's favorite band of all time.

Speaker 2

No, it's not true.

Speaker 1

And the other side of Make Believe sounds like Mike's favorite album name of all time?

Speaker 2

Nope. You're not gonna listen.

Speaker 1

Anyway, 5.5, Pitchfork fucking hates them. Anyway.

Speaker 3

God, I'm going with, the same thing that Mike went with, which is a now seemingly fucking, optimistic 6.9.

Speaker 2

Now we've got Lizzo and, her album Special. I,

I, I, Pitchfork is not in touch with this artist, but I don't think they're, I, I think it's a 7.2. I think it's like a weird scooter. I,

Speaker 1

I think that Pitchfork doesn't care about the, the review. I think that they're just going to still ride the Lizzo train for the rest of their lives, but I think they're going to be like 7.3, which is what my guess is, but then still talk about her like she was a B&M and then probably even put her at the top 50 at the end of the year.

Speaker 3

I think Pitchfork doesn't give a shit about this, but also doesn't want to hear from her fans, so it's going to go with the 7.7.

Speaker 2

The Taylor Swift, the Swifties approach. Now we've got Sports Team and their album, Gulp. I don't, I don't, I don't even know, I don't know what this is. I don't know what this is. I'm going to 7.5. I don't know what it is.

Speaker 1

Sports team. And so, I specifically requested that nobody is allowed to even look up what the sports team is. and we're, we're old kids. We're, we're old children that listen to us. we don't, we don't, we don't do, we don't do sports team. So I'm guessing it's a Alex G wannabe band. That's my guess. and I'm going to go 7.8.

Speaker 3

Not even the faintest clue of what this combination of words means, and I went, just like Mike with 7.5.

Speaker 2

Yep, that checks out. Now we've got tight,

Speaker 3

what, what I've decided is the medium of all pitchfork ratings. Yes, me too. Right in the middle. That is, there is not a five, it's a 7.5. It's the exact middle.

Speaker 2

That was my exact thought process as well. Now we've got Ty Siegel and his album Hello, Hi. Ty Siegel is a perennial like 8.0er, but sometimes he like dips down to the 7.5s for fun. I'm going to ride the middle here with the 7.8.

Speaker 1

I'm gonna say that Tice equals time has passed. Hello, hi, goodbye, 6.9.

Speaker 3

Might get the fuck out of my mind,

Speaker 2

7.8. Now we've got Maggie Rogers and her album Surrender. I think they hated her other stuff. I'm pretty sure 7.2.

Speaker 1

Yeah, Maggie Rogers seems like yet again another pop star that Pitchfork, it seemingly hates with the reviews, but then, you know, talks about in news and it kind of, you know, maybe likes secretly. Anyway, 7.4.

Speaker 3

7.4 as well. Why can't I get my own rating? I would love to have a rating to myself, but you motherfuckers are stomping on my gaunch and I hate it.

Speaker 2

Here's your chance. Now we've got Of Montreal and their album Freewave, Lucifer. Fuck. Fuck, fuck, which sounds like a plug-in that Elon Musk would design for his Tesla and then be really mad that it's not working. I'm giving it a 7.0.

Speaker 3

Oh man, I want to drive a Tesla.

Speaker 1

Wait, what was your, what was your guess?

Speaker 2

7.0.

Speaker 1

I'm going to go, 6.9 because it's hilarious. Because it's hilarious.

Speaker 2

You're supposed to figure out your score ahead of time. You're making it seem like that is false.

Speaker 1

It's

Speaker 3

hilarious. Seriously, I am going fucking nuts here. 7.0. Why can't I have a rating to myself?

Speaker 2

Okay. And

Speaker 3

all you motherfuckers stepping on my ratings.

Speaker 2

Here's your last chance. This is your chance to shine, some might say. Now we've got Sean Nicholas Savage and his album Shine. Pitchfork won't even review this. So here's really a chance just for funsies. I'm going a 7.3.

Speaker 1

I went 7.1.

Speaker 3

I went to 7. I went to 7.3, Mike.

Speaker 1

You know, the

Speaker 3

same goddamn number you went. Is anybody sensing a pattern? So,

Speaker 1

so hold on a second. I have to say something. Which

Speaker 3

one of you motherfuckers got the FBI to hack my

Speaker 1

phone? Hold, hold on. As the person who's in the lead, your best bet is actually just kind of like, writing the coattails of us. That guarantees that you will always... No,

Speaker 3

my best bet is continuing to win, asshole.

Speaker 1

Zero thoughts. It's light speed. What the fuck do you think? Kuko Fantasy Gateway is gonna get all started off with a 6.6. Go ahead.

Speaker 2

Hi, I'm gonna go like, like Rex Orange County, they didn't even review his last record. I, you know what, just for funsies, I'll go, 7.0.

Speaker 3

You know what, fuck it, I don't give a shit. Yeah, yeah, 8.0 for you, Kuko. You're actually gonna do it, Kuko. Get it, Kuko.

Speaker 2

I love it, I love it.

Speaker 1

The first ever blink round, lightning, light speed.

Speaker 2

Perfect, you nailed it. Everyone's been waiting for it. Alright, there we are. Up, down, all around, that's both lightning round and apparently blink round.

Speaker 3

All right. Well, this has been fantastic. listener, thank you so much for joining us. If you, if you want to yell at us, fine, do it. Best new podcast at gmail.com. We can be reached there. if, if you want to rate us on, on places like the Apple Podcasts application slash store slash wherever the fuck it's called, you can do that. We not only are not going to stop you, we literally cannot stop you.

So just be kind if you do, please. gentlemen, we always like to leave the listener with something to ruminate on, something, some sort of vibe, some sort of tone, we, we, you know, to go into the, this intervening month with, because it's going to be, you know, probably a month until we, see them again. Michael, what would you like a listener to keep in mind?

Speaker 2

Hey, we've talked about it a bit on this cast, but Pitchfork is in the mood to kill their idols. You know, I just, I want you to pray for Beyonce. I know she needs it. I know she is hope, desperately hoping for Pitchfork to give a good score. Let's all, let's all. She's on

Speaker 3

a horse. It's a very vulnerable animal to be on. Thoughts

Speaker 2

and prayers for Beyonce, guys.

Speaker 3

Duffy?

Speaker 1

I mean, I, I don't know if I can actually top what, what was just said here, but, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm looking forward to what, you know, what, what Kuko's gonna get. I'm really, that's, that's really now all my, all my attention is on, on, on Kuko. Save Kuko. I'm just trying to fund. Go fund me forward slash Kuko deserves better.

Speaker 3

Well, that's fantastic. Well, well, well, listener, we've cherished this time with you, and, and we'll cherish it again when we are back in a bit.