Would an OpenAI Collapse Pop the Economy?
at 17:17
Answer
Azeem Azhar says Paul Kedrosky talked about frontier models and tokens, while he talked about capital spending and the GPUs, and that the two deserve separate discussions. OpenAI and Anthropic depend on ever more powerful systems with a smaller and smaller set of users. The other question is the trillion plus dollars of capital that will go into data centers, where American and global businesses will run increasing amounts of AI.
Ezra Klein says he is confused by the split, because people can mean different things by a bubble popping or deflating. Ezra Klein says a failed business model at OpenAI or Anthropic would pop the economy. If people are happy to use DeepSeek from China for a lot less money and Anthropic collapses, Ezra Klein says the result becomes contagion in the stock market. Alphabet sits in the same worry. Ezra Klein does not think the shock would throw the country into a depression, but says it would have a very big effect on valuations and on what people are willing to lend.
Azeem Azhar answers that the fundamental risk of an infrastructure build-out is not enough customers demanding a product and paying enough for the underlying asset. If enterprises move to open weight models run directly by a hyperscaler, Azeem Azhar says the demand is moving.
Where this answer comes from
- Show
- The Ezra Klein Show
- Episode
- Is There an A.I. Bubble? A Debate.
- People
- Paul Kedrosky, Azeem Azhar, Ezra Klein
- Moment
- Date
People
On this episode
- Is OpenAI and Anthropic's Chip Revenue Share Falling? Transcript
- Would an OpenAI Collapse Pop the Economy? Transcript
- What Did Anthropic's Hiring Leak Reveal About Meta? Transcript
- How Did Apple Gain by Skipping Frontier Models? Transcript
- How Is Wall Street Loading Debt Onto Big Tech? Transcript
- Why Is Artificial Intelligence Repricing Work Before New Jobs? Transcript
- How Likely Is One Bad Artificial Intelligence Event? Transcript
- How Few Jobs Does a Huge Data Center Create? Transcript
- Which Books Do Paul Kedrosky and Azeem Azhar Recommend? Transcript
More answers like this
- Is OpenAI and Anthropic's Chip Revenue Share Falling?
- What Did Anthropic's Hiring Leak Reveal About Meta?
- How Did Apple Gain by Skipping Frontier Models?
- How Is Wall Street Loading Debt Onto Big Tech?
- Why Does Ben Affleck Call the Slowdown a Cartel?
- Is China Actually Crushing It Right Now?
More with Ezra Klein
- Why Does Ezra Klein Say the Physical World Rate-limits Artificial Intelligence?
- Why Does Arvind Narayanan Say Law Still Needs Human Judges?
- Why Does Arvind Narayanan See No Intelligence Switch?
- Why Does Arvind Narayanan Say Jevons Paradox Applies to Most White-collar Jobs?
- Why Does Arvind Narayanan Call Power Seeking Engineered?
- Why Does OpenAI Have Trouble Making Every Sandbox Verifiably Safe?
Related episodes
- Intelligence Isn't Power
- Melinda Gates (live!) on stopping climate change, ending malaria, and the problems money can’t solve
- ‘This Is Nuts.’ An OpenAI Insider Explains Why He Quit.
- 20VC: Cognition vs Factory: Vinod Khosla Creates a Storm | OpenAI Nears $70B Run Rate: Anthropic Under Threat | ElevenLabs Doubles Its Valuation to $22B & Salesforce Buys Listen Labs for $2B
- #2 — Mike Maples
- Om Malik of True Ventures
- Ben Affleck on “Animals,” Matt Damon, and His Family
- It's not AI Doom, It's a Fourth Turning