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Back to Is There an A.I. Bubble? A Debate., with Paul Kedrosky & Azeem Azhar.

Would an OpenAI Collapse Pop the Economy?

Azeem Azhar says Paul Kedrosky talked about frontier models and tokens, while he talked about capital spending and the GPUs, and that the two deserve separate discussions. OpenAI and Anthropic depend on ever more powerful systems with a smaller and smaller set of users. The other question is the trillion plus dollars of capital that will go into data centers, where American and global businesses will run increasing amounts of AI.

Ezra Klein says he is confused by the split, because people can mean different things by a bubble popping or deflating. Ezra Klein says a failed business model at OpenAI or Anthropic would pop the economy. If people are happy to use DeepSeek from China for a lot less money and Anthropic collapses, Ezra Klein says the result becomes contagion in the stock market. Alphabet sits in the same worry. Ezra Klein does not think the shock would throw the country into a depression, but says it would have a very big effect on valuations and on what people are willing to lend.

Azeem Azhar answers that the fundamental risk of an infrastructure build-out is not enough customers demanding a product and paying enough for the underlying asset. If enterprises move to open weight models run directly by a hyperscaler, Azeem Azhar says the demand is moving.

Transcript

Is There an A.I. Bubble? A Debate. ·

The Ezra Klein Show

More from this episode

  1. Is OpenAI and Anthropic's Chip Revenue Share Falling?Ezra Klein asks how AI demand looks once token use is separated from the chips that serve it.
  2. What Did Anthropic's Hiring Leak Reveal About Meta?Azeem Azhar says Anthropic accidentally leaked one of its largest customers.
  3. How Did Apple Gain by Skipping Frontier Models?Ezra Klein says Apple decided not to compete in making a frontier model, unlike Alphabet, Google, and Meta. OpenAI and Anthropic are AI companies.
  4. How Is Wall Street Loading Debt Onto Big Tech?Ezra Klein asks whether broader society is protected because Alphabet, Meta, and the other major companies can absorb huge losses on their own balance sheets.
  5. Why Is AI Repricing Cognitive Work?Paul Kedrosky says artificial intelligence is the fastest adopting technology in history, and its fundamental function is to reprice cognitive labor.
  6. How Likely Is a Backlash Against AI?Ezra Klein says discontinuous regulation is quite likely.
  7. How Few Jobs Does a Huge Data Center Create?Azeem Azhar says a huge data center may cost billions of dollars and still employ a handful of people.
  8. Which Books Do Paul Kedrosky and Azeem Azhar Recommend?Ezra Klein asks each guest for three books. Paul Kedrosky recommends Middlemarch, about normal people swept along as a technology revolution takes hold.

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